>you know what, Nikki? I'm tired of this mind games you play. yes, I'm obsessed with you. I dream of making passionate love to you since high school, but since you're fucking my best friend behind my back, I used my One Wish Willow to make both of you my mindless slaves and Sarah to be my wife and you're going to witness our hapiness for the rest of your life.
>>221806854why are so many people offended on bear's behalf? all he had to do is be honest with his intentions from the start, she'd likely reject him, and he could move on
>>221806854>this mind gamesgood morning saar
>>221806878Culture collapsed in the 2010s and the newer generations genuinely don’t know what a “love potion” plot actually entails.
>>221806878alot of guys have been in bear's situation. its relatable in a sense
>>221806878Yeah but like if she rejcts him she's a bloody bitch prostitute and his life is ruined he'll never be able to ask out another woman of fear of being rejected
>Nikki, I've actually had a crush on you for a few years. I don't want to ruin our friendship but it's eating me up and I think you can probably tell. I'm terrified that you don't feel the same way, but on the off chance that you do, do you want to go out some time?All he had to say.He'll probably get rejected but that's okay
>>221807075And then she torpedoes the relationship because women can't stand when their non-sexual orbiters won't stay in their lane.
>>221807093Which is a good thing.Force Bear to grow some balls and stop simping for a girl who only likes the support he gives her.
>>221806997theyre also part of a big mutual friend group. as soon as this is in the public, either the friend group balkanizes or Bear is excluded
>>221806997that's pathetic and if true it's just what he deserves
>>221806878Canonically, she liked him but Bear wasn't man enough to just ask her out
>>221806878Women aren’t owed kindness. It’s not a bank you pay into hoping to get a return on your investment
>>221807358But we hear Ian tell Bear that he heard from Sarah that Nikki said she sees Bear as a little brother? Or was that something Ian was making up because he wanted Nikki for himself? I thought canonically it's clear that Nikki didn't see Bear as anything more than a friend.
>>221807421We also know from Nikki that she says stupid shit to guys she likes. I really think she wanted him to ask her out that night he made the wish.
>>221807075>wordswordswordswomen don't want you to explain yourself like you're in a marvel movie
>>221806878HE SHOULD HAVE JUST DONE THE RAPE CORRECTION. NIKKI NEEDED TO LEARN
>>221806878Its not even that dude its rationalizing away the obvious demon possession shit. Its sad how much we hate eachother. From watching interviews, the lead actor influenced the character to be less sympathetic and the female lead actually saw him as more sympathetic lol.
>>221806885I'm black actually
Could a One Wish Willow have saved him?
>>221806854When I was 16 (close to 17) we had a new English teacher and I had a crush on her, so I started to be a little teacher's pet in order to get a little bit more interactions with her, but she actually liked me back and we started dating for around 3 months. You can think that I'm lucky and all this stuff, but it actually was one of the most traumatic experiences in my life. I don't even think it's just the age difference, I think it was more about her being an actual psychopath or just your normal BPD woman. Don't want to go into the details, but just imagine dealing with a hyper-crazy BPD woman as a 15 yo boy.>inb4 but at least you had sexI didn't lose my virginity with her and in 3 months that we were dating we had sex like 2 times, both were awful. Every other girl I had sex with was better.I'm now 28, all of this resulted in me having a life-long disdain for women to the point I genuinely cannot feel romantic interest in women. I'm physically attracted to women and if I am close to a woman, I of course have basic human sympathy and comradery, but after the teacher I could never again feel that "love" feeling I once did.It's both a blessing and a curse, on one hand I am physically incapable of simping, on the other I'm also incapable of feeling strong attachment to any woman and I also cannot imagine myself being so close to a woman I would want to have kids with her, even though I do want to have kids.
Why does it feel like half the people talking about this movie are just protecting their failed high-school crushes and neurosis onto itNikki didn't play any mind games with Bear, because they never even talked about being together. It was all in Bear's head, he never even had the balls to ask her out
>>221810438>Why does it feel like half the people talking about this movie are just protecting their failed high-school crushes and neurosis onto itWay more than half
>>221807093Isn't that better, ultimately? It would force him to stop orbiting in the first placeEvery other solution is better than just existing as some girl's simp
>>221806878Maybe it's because everyone is calling him (and all underemployed white dudes) an incel?
>>221810493If you're a dude who's only ever had one girl even be slightly nice to you, while being invisible to all the others, you tend to put all your eggs into that basket. Oneitis is a terrible curse but I understand the impulse.
>>221810438You are being disingenuous or maybe you just don't know. Unless you are literally Chad Thundercock being too forward or too fast with a woman is an automatic "ick" and you're out. Women have conditioned men to "be friends" before they even attempt to imply they are romantically interested. Just go ask around or make personal investigation online - the vast majority of women want men to play social games, be nonchalant and the "pressure" that they feel from knowing a guy they talk to wants to date them is a turn-off. The "just go talk with her bro" is like when boomers say "just go in there and give the boss guy a firm handshake". Maybe it work when you are a kid, but in adult world it's at best automatic rejection and at worst a permanent label of being a creep.
>>221806878>she'd likely reject himThen why ask? Because she's a manipulative cunt looking for an opportunity to exploit and blackmail someone she views as beneath her. She deserved everything that happened to her and more.
>>221810529>Unless you are literally Chad Thundercock being too forward or too fast with a woman is an automatic "ick"Once you've had a little practice and experience in dating you'll be able to preemptively discern which women will be responsive to your attention, as well as knowing how to sexually escalate in a way that doesn't scare her off.
>>221806926That's the shitty part. Women are melodramatically acting like Bear is a literal rapist when majority of guys have been exactly where he was. Theyre shaming men for their emotions.
>>221806878>all he had to do is be honest with his intentions from the start, she'd likely reject him, and he could move onBack during freshman year, a girl regularly flirted with me in an attempt to get me to ask her out.It turned out it was just a plot to try make her boyfriend jealous enough to kick my ass, given that I was 95lbs and he was on the football team. She didn't even actually like me, she just thought it'd be funny.Fortunately I never asked her out. But it kind of broke me as a person anyway.
>>221810577well you are just playing along their requirements for social games, which Bear was also trying to play but failed because he couldn't understand her cues. Was it a skill issue? Yes, perhaps. But we all could've been better off without these awkward mindgames
I've seen people get genuinely mad because I said I found the phone call more disturbing than the rape scene. The metaphysics scare the shit out of me? Was she in literal hell? Who the fuck makes these things in the first place? Where do they come from? Where do they draw their power? What are the implications on what the human being *is*? How does the guy on the phone have direct access to her tormented soul? Rape's bad but surely metaphysical constant torment is worse?
>>221811023The sex scene? It was portrayed as ecstatic and passionate coitus with enthusiastic consent. The pygmalion persona was in charge of Nikki then, in what sense was it a rape scene other than her entire persona had been replaced/hijacked?
>>221807093>>221810516The thing is, Bear isn't invisible to others, that girl from the shop is pretty blatantly into him, it's not like he's a hopeless case or anything. He's letting (what he thinks will be) the perfect be the enemy of the good.
>>221806878I guess it's reactive to usual soi/woman hysterics that the guy was pure evil through and through
>>221811225>other than her entire persona had been replaced/hijackedThat part plus it came immediately after he seemed convinced that the possession had taken place. If the alteration was less detectable beyond a change in interest, I'd be much more hesitant to call it such, but by that point it has clearly dramatically and disturbingly altered her.
>>221810696Bear failed to treat her as a romantic-sexual being entirely. He was obsessed with an idol of Nikki, the Instagram scroll Nikki, not Nikki as she actually was as a physical being embodied in history. The fact he thought a love confession was a method of courtship shows he was never seriously engaged with her, if he was serious he would use serious methods to seduce/court/flirt with her that have a chance of actually working.
>>221811023>rape sceneAre you actually retarded or just pretending
>>221811332When did the actual sex take place? I thought it was:>passionate ssx>sleep>sleep allowed real Nikki to telepathically communicate to Bear that she was imprisoned and it was not the real-Nikki>Bear sulks about "what would be so bad about being in a relationship with me" placing his needs above Nikki's autonomy and treating her as an instrument to useI'll grant after that it becomes explicitly abusive and rapey, but I thought the sex scene was before that and used as an explanation for why he entertained the idea of keeping slave-Nikki i.e. so that he could enjoy the validation and pleasure of sex with her?
>>221811384Reddit are treating it as the most important fact of the film, that it is an "SA" movie about "SA".
>>221811526Looks like you should go back and stay there
>>221811538I wanted to see what the cancel mob were droning about. That's what it is: failure to see it as a rape movie about rape, and to call out Bear as a rapist in his rape scene. Deep as a puddle.
Obsession threads are funny
>>221810378Maybe you should just like get over it? Malingering is a vice, not a virtue. Go for a walk around the block, take a bath, eat a tub of ice cream, and wake up to a new day.
>>221809991reminder that people who choose to be in these kinds of videos are mentally not right
>>221811500After the restaurant scene, precautionary principle would suggest disengagement; even if not possessed, she's clearly not in her right mind. Any sex prior to that, overall defensible because it would require taking an absurd premise (the magic wish stick worked) over the much more reasonable explanation of her coincidentally having an overwhelming moment in the car leading to a realisation of desire for a relationship.I have to be honest, I kind of wish (heh) the one wish willow *was* bullshit and that the film was just about a guy first accidentally and then consciously exploiting a girl having a BPD mental breakdown. The magical nature bog the wish leads to, like I said, unclear metaphysics that really muddy the waters here.
>>221811526the version of nikki he was having sex with was willing and eager, the real nikki wasn't even thereverdict: no rape
>>221806878nobody cares about fantasy movies tranny
>>221811725>precautionary principleWhy self-police love? This is the same neuroticism that prevented him from having a healthy sexual-romantic engagement with Nikki (and Sarah) in the first place (only engaging with her as a friend/thinking a love confession would work). All these stupid rules against any flight or flourish, all this policing of self and peers: "you can't do this, you shouldn't do that," the moment any deepfelt expression threatens to break through. Demon-Nikki can at least express herself and voice her emotions, even if her emotions are implanted. She at least is authentic and doesn't lie about what she feels, and doesn't mask what she is feeling.
>>221811703Agreed. I think it's just failed narcissism. If he had great jeans he'd still volunteer to be in the video but score.
>>221811862you can see it in her face she came on for the sole purpose of turning people down, however nohting's worse than the black version of these videos
>>221811743That's my thought on the specific act. The emotions and sexual expressiveness of demon-Nikki are authentic and earnest, and so was the sexual connection with Bear, but of course demon-Nikki is a hostile implanted persona against the real-Nikki. Then Bear makes an explicit decision to use and keep demon-Nikki for his own validation and self-pleasure, and abandon the real-Nikki in her hell-prison, proving that his supposed love for Nikki was fraudulent.
>>221807075meanwhile, some random ass hung nigga: ayo baby want sum fug?Romanticism is for chumps.
>>221811703>bald midget ftm tranny looking guy with a pedophile talisman dangling from his belt>He's not right you guysThanks for clearing that up
>>221811893Yep. Not only is she picky in real life but the mere fact she's been cast to pick/reject men boosts her ego to astronomical levels.
>>221811860The time to stop self-policing came way earlier, when she asked him upfront; people keep arguing "oh she secretly felt the same way" or "lol she'd *never* like an gross incel like Bear!" but the point is *you just don't know*, Bear needed to shit or get off the pot. By the time of the restaurant scene, she's clearly eithera) having a mental breakdownorb) under the influence of malign forces outside of her controlHe might want to fuck, she might be giving signals, but any consistent ethical principle save will to power (and Bear is no Ubermensch) demands more discerning action than satisfaction of desire in this scenario.
>>221807075If he seriously loved Nikki then he had to employ winning means to win her over, not engage in loser tactics to lose her. He should have started dating Sarah, reduced his time and attention to Nikki, and then relentlessly flirt with and tease Nikki. Once he'd made Nikki come he could say that the relationship with Sarah made him realise it was inadequate and that he was into her.
>>221811743>the real nikki wasn't even thereThis is the point I'm making about the metaphysics of the wish muddying the waters, because it's never actually made clear in the film, and exactly *what* is happening is definitional in discerning what the crime is. Has she been fully replaced by another entity? If so, it's not rape, though arguably it is killing. Is she trapped within, experiencing but unable to act? In which case, yeah, rape. Is she translocated to some domain of pure torment (as the screaming suggests)? In which case, the crime is on an entirely different - and worse - order, and arguably the culpability *does* fall more on the company which makes the One Wish Willows than it does Bear because despite Barker's claims that this isn't a "be careful what you wish for" story, something which can have this kind of effect on an uninvolved party from an utterance thrown out in frustration is *clearly* not fit for public sale.
PUA master hereyou lads wanna get laid? do the following:lead off with a neg and then look for IOI's, make sure you escalate quickly and keep playfully insulting while laying foundation, but don't forget to agonize her friends while giving off clarity of intent, look for affirmations (her breathing) and keep communication frequency at compliance, she will shit test you so build credibility by direct game, using the disarm approach wingman. Drop anchor, then eject while eye glazing using the implicit technique, one she's lockedout nickle back her till game over.
The fat dude was a terrible friend who could have helped avoid so much suffering for all involved had he been upfront about seeing Nikki on/off with Bear from the start.
>>221812136I agree with your first point, but the movie is criticising this self-policing and peer-policing throughout, not just at the beginning. You are attempting to peer-police Bear into policing Nikki instead of loving Nikki. You're saying Bear should have policed Nikki's behaviour and punished and shunned her for failing behaviour standards (which Bear does attempt to do: "you can't do that Nikki," "be normal" etc.). Instead he could have reciprocated her intense love, and come to her eccentricities from a position of love, care, and understanding, rather than policing and punishment. The movie is also holding a mirror to Bear, she is loving him as he thought he loved Nikki, and exposing his supposed love as fraudulent. Demon-Nikki loves him ernestly and doesn't care about his faults, he fault-finds and polices her.Think, if he were really madly in love with her as she is with him, then they'd be two crazy people doing crazy things against all the morality and policing of the world, like Mickey and Mallory in Natural Born Killers.
>>221806878How cares, women deserve no grace from men.
>>221812254I think the ambiguity is meant because it's an allegory for women adopting (or having imposed) inauthentic personas in relationships which conflict with their more authentic or prior selves. Getting turned into mirror objects of instrumental use by their husbands/boyfriends/the role of motherhood etc. and becoming a shadow, husk, or maladaption of their former or best potential selves.The personas are types of self-alienation. In the movie it's the would-be boyfriends wish magic, but IRL it's the expectations, roles, and experiences of being a wife/girlfriend/mother.
Bear IS a rapist from the moment he realizes real Nikki's trapped inside. But the landwhales who can't let go of this movie and "incel culture" would be making videos like "I support women's rights and women's wrongs" and attempting to rationalize it, if the genders were reversed.
>>221812306Not boasting about banging Nikki was one of the few admirable things he did. You know his instinct would be to bro-brag and demean "freaky Nikki" for bro-points. He had the decency to be discrete and respect her, and obviously he must be good at making Nikki cum if she kept coming back for more.
>>221812258lol, I was at a bar with my sister and gf while in college and some faggot rocked up to us and tried this shit on my sister. first I legitimately thought he was hitting on me but then I clocked his PUA bs. my sister didn't know anything about it but when he tried to neg her for being a math grad student and we laughed in his face and called him a retard for not understanding "what math is useful for"also when he said he's a lobbyist in the state senate I cut him off and asked so you're unemployed?eventually he got pissed and stormed off muttering to himself about getting his dick wet tonight. what a fucking loser
>>221806878the answer is unironically Incels. this movie mindbroke them
The only thing that matters about this discussion is that if the roles were reversed everyone would be praising it for deconstructing Female Loneliness and how damaging it is to a woman to be rejected by a man.
>>221810529everybody is different you fucking malcontent. You're over analyzing women .Some women find forwardness attractive. Others really appreciate being non-aggresive and polite. Honestly the guys who actually understand women realize after a certain point its not worth the mental effort to hyper analyze psychology and just be comfortable with themselves and vibe. Thats the real secret.
>>221812809Not true, and he had Sarah wanting to be his arthoe mainhoe.
>>221812056If Bear said that, he'd get laughed at though.He couldn't 'win' because he'd spent years showing her he's a pussy. His best bet was to be honest, hope she appreciated his courage to admit how he felt, and maybe score a pity-date. But he'd already fucked up.>>221812173PUA shit is a literal joke these days. But when it started it wasn't. People hated it because it worked through meticulous trial-and-error research.The first rule of PUA was that it's a numbers game and that you can't rely on it to work with your oneitis. That applies here.If he's genuinely in love with her and wants a 'meaningful' relationship, his only option is to be genuine and hope for the best.If he just wants to get laid, he has to play the numbers game.If he wants to manipulate Nikki into fucking him by fucking Sarah, it might work. But it won't be a good relationship. And if it doesn't work, it will likely blow up in his face since he doesn't actually care about Sarah.
>>221812588that's what keeps bugging me. like, they were having sex for 2 years straight. it can't be just casual at this point, they must really know how to pleasure each other and developed some personal intimacy Bear could only dream of.it would be more faithful to the characters if they were fucking for some months, not 2 whole years. because it only makes Bear look worse for not finding out already.
>>221811698>Maybe you should just like get over it?NTA but I really think you should kill yourself
No but seriously what the fuck was wrong with Nikki? Why didn't she like him? He's cute as fuck.
>>221813025Nikki was an open and fun girl. Relationships are built on a sexual connection, and Nikki is open to forming sexual connections with men. Once he had a sexual connection he could have built a relationship from there. He needed to plausibly break their friendship and have a reason for a sudden realisation of attraction. Inducing some jealousy and loss by dating Sarah and pulling away from Nikki would have induced some longing for Bear, and Bear could likewise claim that missing Nikki and the inadequacy of Sarah's love made him realise that his true affections lied with Nikki. A less intense method could be to talk about his sex life with Nikki and see if that leads to a carefree and light FWB relationship that he could "catch feelings" from and escalate.A confession of love is complete Walter Mitty unseriousness.
>>221813090The only person you're killing by malingering is yourself. Why make the past a prison for your present? Just wipe your arse, get off the toilet, and put your pants back on.
>>221813117There's a reason they made him look disheveled and awkward. They had to give a reason why she didn't flirt with him, even though he was somewhat handsome. Everything about Bear is rooted in lack of confidence and self loathing. He was his own enemy.
>>221813068Yeah, I guess it's to show she's not neurotic or self-masking her sexuality and sexual expression like Bear. She was down to get down. We don't spend much time with real-Nikki so I guess it's a factoid to give insight into how her character is opposed to Bear. Also helps the plot mechanically.
>>221811262you're usually invisible to the ones you actually want though. and theres a reason he never asked sarah out before.
>>221812588I never said he should have bragged about it; I said that he should have *mentioned* it to his friend who's obviously obsessed with this girl; you don't have to phrase that around how much of a top shagger you are or going into detail on what you're up to in the bedroom or frame it as getting one over on your buddy. What I'm saying is that while disillusionment would have been upsetting for Bear in the short term, it would have been way healthier for him in the long term.
>>221813283That's not really true. He didn't flirt with Nikki. Sarah was there to show Bear was sexually and romantically desirable, he wasn't a freak.
>>221813385Yeah he's duplicitous to his friend. My point is more that he would have a character predisposition to bro-boast. By the same token is he trying to block Bear from Nikki, or is he trying to steer and educate him how to get into a sexual-romantic relationship with Nikki from experience? Seems a bit more of the latter.
>>221807421Ian had ulterior motives, he was sabotaging Bear the whole time since he has feelings for Nikki too
>>221813241I don't think dating someone simply to obtain the interest of a third party is justifiable, quite cruel actually, Machiavellianism. He should have given it a shot with Sarah though, and if that didn't work out, hey, maybe Nikki would be interested, or maybe he'd have met someone else. Or he could have just answered "Yes" outright when Nikki asks upfront "Do you like me", which isn't a grand confession of love but does signal interest; after that, she either rejects him and he can move on with his life, or she displays interest and they can try a relationship on for size. Either way, better than slowly stewing in obsession and self-loathing over it.
>>221813617If Bear were really in love with Nikki, then why not? Love conquers all, let it trample over Sarah. Perhaps he could have signalled interest to Nikki in her deposition, but his mind was set on a grand confession of love, and I doubt her questioning would cure him of his inability to realise a serious attempt to allure her, and instead we'd get impotent awkwardness.But the point of the movie is he was never truly in love with Nikki, and that he had a good chance of building something that would last with Sarah.
>>221807421Canon is Nikki loves cock and Bear has one. If Bear acted like he had a dick then he'd be in with a fighting chance.
