It’s Oppenheimer 2 about Odysseus’ guilt over building the horse and getting the people of Troy killed. Nothing like that was ever in the book. Zendaya’s “Athena” is some Trojan temple girl he saw get beheaded and her appearances are more him just reconciling about his loss of faith over him actually talking to a goddess like in the actual book and mythology.These adaptations are just terrified to try to adapt the Olympic Gods, I guess they think it would be too corny.
Dude.
>>221825607I honestly wasn't very impressed. The whole "Modern take on literary classic" shit is tired and awful. Intentionally failing to understand the themes of a classic work doesn't make you smart, it makes you dishonest.The film is a total thematic failure. It pretentiously declares itself smarter than the original written Odyssey while being too stupid to grasp any of its real themes.
>>221825607>plaster of paris headAs a mineral enjoyer this bothers me
>>221825787you vill consume zee slop
>>221825607Certified mid then, a coward plot, much like DUNC, stinks of studio meddling to play it safe despite diversity markets.
>>221825607It was obvious from the trailer that Nolan was never going to truly portray a mythological fantasy world where gods appear to people, etc. I wonder though, if Athena was just a manifestation of his guilty conscience, does that mean that all supernatural stuff we saw were also metaphorical/psychological representations in some way? Or is this a world where stuff like that truly exists, it's just the gods that are uncertain?
>>221825607So are we suppose to get the impression that the gods and monsters aren't actually real? All the monster scenes are just Odysseus recounting his journey (while he's under the influence of lotus and just being mindfucked in general) and the Athena scenes in the present day doesn't mean much because a bunch of other movies/tv shows that don't have anything supernatural going on have dead characters appearing in people's visions. And Nolan also tried to shoehorn real world historical events like the sea people and burning of the Temple of Pylos so it doesn't quite feel like it's purely a mythical setting.
>>221825812>does that mean that all supernatural stuff we saw were also metaphorical/psychological representations in some way? Or is this a world where stuff like that truly exists, it's just the gods that are uncertain?What it actually means is that they didn't think that far and do not care. Stop asking questions, just consume product.
>>221825795>>221825792We have the technology to replace zendaya. Some minor tweaks can turn slop into kino.
Achilles was cut as well even from his underworld reunion scene with Odysseus. I guess “if you show Achilles, Zeus, or Athena then they immediately become more interesting than Odysseus. The audience will then always be asking where’s Zeus?”” was Nolan’s thought process
>>221825831>All the monster scenes are just Odysseus recounting his journeyThis is how the original text is. The shitty translation they used ruins the themes of Odysseus processing the grief of endless turmoil, corrupting them into recountings of his trials as "symbolic" of grief or some dumb shit. That was what they went with for the film. It's crap. The original text, well translated, is so much more vivid, personal and emotional.
>>221825812>>221825831Probably why the opening was “In a world of apparent magic”Pretty lame to try to do a grounded Odyssey but still have le epic cyclops and kraken scene for the crowdpleasing
>>221825862They probably renamed Page's character from Achilles to Sinon after the uproarious laughter when it came out that that little girl was going to play the most legendary warrior in western literature.
>>221825607Yup, and the ending doesn't even see him really reclaim the throne, he immediately fucks off again to atone for his sins. It's a gay ass, subversive modern-day interpretation that you actually can't reclaim your home and all you can do is pass it on to the next generation because the sins of your past are too great to bear
>>221825607I'm not endorsing the movie or what Nolan did, but tbf I don't think a completely straight adaptation of the characters and their motivations as they appear in the poem would have made sense to modern audiences (and I don't mean "modern" in the woke sense). These are very old stories from very old cultures that thought in very different ways to us and had very different value systems. I can't imagine the slaughter of the suitors (as shown in the poem, not the movie version) Odysseus' lying and deceptive nature, or having the female servants who the suitors slept with killed being very kino to most people.
>>221825862>Achilles was cut as well even from his underworld reunion sceneHe was not cut out. That is exactly Achilles, I am 100% confident they redubbed the movie with AI or some shit to replace all mentions of Achilles with Sinon after the backlash.There would simply be no reason to have swapped the name, even though you're keeping every other aspect of the character's appearance in the story the same, during script writing and production. "Hey bro let's keep Achilles's role exactly the same but swap his name for this character from 1000 years later!" simply would never occur to anyone to do that for any reason.
>>221825896But Odysseus still encounters Athena, Poseidon, Zeus, robot dogs, ships that can pilot themselves and some random sea goddess with a magical scarf outside of his flashbacks
>>221825959>but tbf I don't think a completely straight adaptation of the characters and their motivations as they appear in the poem would have made sense to modern audiencesA director's job is to make it work. Going the lazy cop-out route is is the work of talentless hacks.
>>221825989>But Odysseus still encounters Athena, Poseidon, Zeus, robot dogs, ships that can pilot themselves and some random sea goddess with a magical scarf outside of his flashbacksFair. I'm just saying that the flashback scenes are accurate to the text, in structure only. They have been thematically ruined in the film.
>>221825748>Intentionally failing to understand the themes of a classic work
>>221825959Why does it have to make sense or be kino to modern audiences? The play is what it is, meant to be seen/consumed for what it is. It's a piece of history precisely because it represents something that no longer exists. The same should apply to a movie adaptation of it.
>>221825607I am sick of post modernist subversion of ancient and medieval masterpieces.
The ultimate faithful wife archetype of Penelope has a girlboss “instead of waiting for a king these 20 years you could have had a kween” moment too halfway through the film after she had shown to be anything but. I knew they couldn’t help themselves
>>221826081>I am sick of post modernist subversion of ancient and medieval masterpieces.That's not sickness, anon. That's righteous anger.
>>221825812I think Nolan was hoping that we'd be so invested in all the political turmoil/drama shit happening in Ithaca that by the point Odysseus is slaughtering the suitors you aren't suppose to even care if the stories are true or not because what matters now is that Odysseus is finally home and he's kicking ass, so what does it FUCKING matter if he actually encountered a FUCKING cyclops or not? Or atleast, I think that's what Nolan's thought process was here, idk, maybe
>>221825607>Nothing like that was ever in the bookIts an epic poem, two poems if you include the Illiad. It rhymes in ancient Greek which made it easier for a story teller to memorize since written copies were rare. And yes, the war is generally depicted as being regarded as a pointless conflict between Agamenmon and Troy that should have been settled diplomatically. Odysseus never regrets his actions in helping to win the war he was doing his duty; but the war itself is largely depicted as a waste of the heroes on both sides who fought it.
>>221826086HR mandated feminist scene because it never comes up again, isnt even directly addressed within the same conversation, and has no relation to her character or her actions at any other point in the film
>>221826174>but the war itself is largely depicted as a waste of the heroes on both sides who fought it.Perfectly captured thematically by Achilles in the end: Better to be a simple farmer, than to live a hero and end up in Hades.
>>221826086Well, quite a few greeks back then seemingly liked the idea of her being a whore
>>221826208That's only half the interpretation. In life, Achilles willingly chooses death for glory over a simple life. It's only when he dies that he wishes otherwise. People tend toward that interpretation because it follows chronologically, the implication being that he was wrong in life, but they're both supposed to be taken into account when regarding his tale. Wanting what you can't have is the ultimate tragedy of life after all
>sir the black Helen actress took the role. Racism is over.>sir you do know Helen doesn’t do anything in the plot of The Odyssey right >uhhhhh quick make her twins with a female character who actually doesCAM ON NOLAN
Contemporary Western culture can do nothing but sad old washed up guy is bitter about life in various dressup.
>>221826365>That's only half the interpretation. In life, Achilles willingly chooses death for glory over a simple life. It's only when he dies that he wishes otherwise. People tend toward that interpretation because it follows chronologically, the implication being that he was wrong in life, but they're both supposed to be taken into account when regarding his tale. Wanting what you can't have is the ultimate tragedy of life after alljk it's Sinon and he just wants to tell you that mmmm war is bad mkay?
>>221825607While that's true, the original poem and myths behind it do say in no uncertain terms that, while Greeks did win the war, they all ended up suffering for their hubris with all the heroes either dead, killed afterwards or ending up like Odysseus who returned after twenty years of suffering with most of it coming from his own pride.It's not necessarily a bad spin to the story, even if I think it could have been less heavy handed.
>>221826814>It's not necessarily a bad spin to the story, even if I think it could have been less heavy handed.Pic related: The hands.
I liked that they made it clear that crying wasn't considered unmanly in Ancient Greece.
>>221826438But all those things were straight from the source?Telemachus really visits Menelaus and Helen and she really was Agamemnon wife's sister. A shame we didn't see a glimpse of crazy daddy's girl Elektra talking her brother into murdering their mother but that's a whole other story.
>>221826081I feel like there's no art in it. Sword and sandals movies in the 50s and 60s had some artistry. It is most blatant in the soundtrack. Film scores were composed and played by virtuosos in the golden era. Now the music for this, like the acting, art direction, etc, feels stupefyingly primitive and unskilled, like cavemen.
antiwar theme is ruining war stories
>>221825607shut the fuck up like you ever rrad a book in your lifeIn the story, the theme of hospitality violation haunting Odysseus' return is subtext, a theme behind all off the encounters, each one involving the tension of correct conduct and the order of social relations.
>>221826081It was an almost word-for-word adaptation at points and changed literally nothing significant, you hacks are so fucking stupid I don't know how you can stand it
This is a movie about a man who uses his smarts to create an unethical device of war that allows him to become a hero but ultimately leads to the complete collapse of polite society, forcing him to spend the remainder of his life reckoning with the consequences of his actions and attempting to put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube. Nolan just made Oppenheimer again.
>>221827290"at points" doing a lot of heavy lifting here faggot lol. whats your defense for the other points?
>>221827290>the most honest shill alive
>>221825607The Odyssey is about Odysseus's perilous journey home
>>221825607This movie sucks because Nolan doesn't understand Homer and Greek culture on a fundamental level. Homer never hid the cruelty, deceit, arrogance or mistakes of his heroes. In the Homeric epics, the negative aspects coexist in perfect balance with the greatness, bravery and existential quest. While Homer presents Odysseus someone who uses his mind both to survive and to protect his companions, the film isolates the “dark” side of resourcefulness, baptizing it exclusively as cunning and malice. This selective reading ultimately does not highlight the truth of the work, but distorts it, transforming a cosmogonic adventure into a dry psychological study of a man devastated by his remorse.In the killing of the suitors, Christopher Nolan chooses not to portray the massacre as an act of glorious justice or heroic revenge, but as a dark, violent, and deeply traumatic climax. Nolan visually parallels Odysseus’ return to Ithaca with the siege and fall of Troy. Arriving at the palace disguised as a beggar, Odysseus acts not as a king claiming his right, but as a mentally shattered soldier carrying the horrors of war into his own home. The massacre is filmed in the director’s raw, muscular, and brutalist style, reminiscent of a military thriller rather than an epic battle.Why, whereas Homer presents the flaws of all sides with objectivity, does the film seem to focus obsessively on presenting the Greeks as the only barbarians and criminals? For Homer, the cleverness and disguise of Odysseus are not insidious cunning, but the only weapon of a mortal against supernatural monsters and gods. The deconstruction of the Greeks and Odysseus in this particular film is not accidental, but is a central axis of Nolan's directorial vision, who approaches the epic through his favorite themes: psychological trauma, existential guilt, and the distortion of truth.
Can someone more clever than me recap what happened with Pattinson and Page?It looked like Pattinson was drafted to war in plain view of everyone, and then turned to Page in plain view of everyone and they swapped straws so Page went in Pattinsons place, and then Odysseus came out and said oh Pattinson I'm saving you from the draft, even though they had already swapped straws in front of everyone.What actually happened
>Nothing like that was ever in the bookI gotta be honest, I don't understand why a 2 and a half thousand year old story of all things should be expected to have absolute fidelity in adaption. Surely this is the kind of thing where you'd most want to make your own take on it?
>>221825607Do we actually get to see Zendaya being decapitated?
>>221830933no, the scene shows the girl about to be decapitated and then switches to a statue being decapitated.
>>221825607Odysseus in the story was a fucking monster
>>221825607at this point discussing it is just smoke and mirrors for some scary shit going on on other matterlike Musk changing Tesla factories for murder bots production
>>221830897Maybe because if you're borrowing the name of the book to make a commercial product you should be expected to at least have some respect for it? Maybe because despite the story being old it still has a lot of meaning for many people who don't like to see it subverted? How about start using your head a bit before posting huh?
>>221830897If you're going to make your own take on it, don't make it worse, and especially don't spit on the original while doing it.
>>221830765thanks chatgpt
>>221825748It shouldn't have been able to use "The Odyssey" as it's title. That's like Steinbeck calling East of eden "The Holy Bible". Honestly a different title would have managed the expectations and filled more seats.
>>221825607I wonder if Nolan has even read the Iliad and Odyssey front to back, and if he has, I which translations. Knowing him, he never did, and only read 21th century psued commentaries on them, and maybe some plot outlines.
It's about white guilt
>>221833112He read Fagles, Rieu and Wilson's translation.
>>221833879Wilson’s translation (and presumably Madeline Miller’s Circe) probably made the biggest impression on him
>>221825607>These adaptations are just terrified to try to adapt the Olympic Gods, I guess they think it would be too corny.Just like Troy which is somehow one of the best movies of all time now
>>221825607I actually really liked how it kind of blended.The mystery of the bronze age collapsed and tied it to homer and the sea peoples. Also you're wrong that there's nothing in the odyssey about Odysseus feeling guilt because he constantly feels guilt about getting his men guilt. Can you know I just extended that to him being tied to the following troy
>>221826028
>>221833731basically this, dunkirk really buttfucked Nolan's independence in Hollywood and now has to do anti-white trash with his last 3 films (pro-negro, anti-white, anti-white mythology)
>>221825607>These adaptations are just terrified to try to adapt the Olympic Gods, I guess they think it would be too corny.They're genuinely scared of Europeans rediscovering their pagan roots and regrowing a spine. It's the same reason why the slaying of the suitors isn't portrayed positively.
>>221835987*I actually really liked how it tied The mystery of the bronze age collapse to homer and the sea peoples. Also you're wrong that there's nothing in the odyssey about Odysseus feeling guilt because he constantly feels guilt about getting his men guilt. Nolan just extended that to him being tied to the fall of troy
>>221836040Greeks aren't white, Juan Smith Hernandez
Kek, ancient Greeks already produced hundreds of fanfics about the Trojan war meanwhile chuds cry about Nolan not being faithful.
>>221835995Ohh you're seething.We found the smoking gun and you're SO pissed about that
>>221825607Nolanoids BTFO!
>>221830903Yes I am thank you very much
>>221836143You're clearly seething. Stay mad
WEWUZKWEEENZAN'SHEITTT!!!
>>221836143He understood everything and discourse was possible. Better post your tweet again or maybe go back to twitter, jeet
>>221836305youtu.be/jZPm7OWabi0
>>221836120>We wuz ancient GreeksThat's their problem, you know. They actually believe that
>>221836305What the fuck is that?
>>221836143They despise it. That and chudda drives them fucking coocoo
>>221825607it's so crazy to me that people are kicking and screaming and feigning indignation at an epic poem being adapted "incorrectly." truly retarded times we live in.
>>221825743lol.>>221830903LMFAO.
>>221836368Elon and jeets hate the Odyssey. They obviously have to use AI to shit on the Odyssey.
>>221836368Our Kween!
>>221836106greek mythology is white foundational as is roman empiremythology, dipshit
>>221836374>feigning indignationI'm LMAO here. Fucking fantastic.
>>221830903>>221830925lol take this phobe shit somewhere else you retarded tranny fags.
>How dare a filmmaker adapt something to his own interpretations
>>221836453yeah, i don't think anyone genuinely cares about this, it's all pantomime and kayfabe for internet attention, same shit with masks, really. anyway, you'll get over it eventually, i think people that "care" about this stuff are very emotional and easy to manipulate, they get dragged around by crowds and have no real ideas or positions of their own
>>221836478
>>221836478Troy was a perfect adaptation, tranny. Nothing was left out there.
>>221825959>but tbf I don't think a completely straight adaptation of the characters and their motivations as they appear in the poem would have made sense to modern audiences300 basically presented classical Spartan ideology as it was through their eyes without judgement, and people fucking loved that movie.
>>221826028>he said>while posting a meme he doesn't understand
>>221836493>blue checkmark jeet seething on TwitterGo back to twitter
>>221836497>No gods>Menelaus and Agamemnon due>Trojan horse is aome demythologized version
>>221836453>>221836492>i don't think anyone genuinely cares about thisI know someone who explicitly refuses to even watch a bootleg due to specifically the race-swap and tranny. They're literally the only person I've discussed the film with.
>>221836449>We wuz Greek mythology You weren't
>>221836374>Everyone is pretending to careThat's when you know your mind is completely rotted
>>221825607>Nothing like that was ever in the bookThe one you didn't read? Fucking retard. Why did Odysseus cry?
>>221836527
>>221825607>.These adaptations are just terrified to try to adapt the Olympic Gods, I guess they think it would be too corny.You're almost there. The Olympian Gods are the White man's Gods - specifically Zeus's son Apollo. Jews are v conscious not to activate this archetype in Europeans.
>>221836368AI slop>inb4 "b-but it's actually from the movie!!"still an edit, chud
>>221836547For his fucking men, not for the innocent citizens of Troy
>>221836368Felon of Detroit
>>221836560Most civilized people have been familiar with Greek myths since childhood.
>>221836560They're all important, anon; not just Apollo, who you can't really have without Artemis and Dionysius.
>>221836368AI slop. The street shitters in this thread love it
>>221825862>>221825903>>221825961>He was not cut out. That is exactly Achilles, I am 100% confident they redubbed the movie with AI or some shit to replace all mentions of Achilles with Sinon after the backlash.What made people think Ellen Page was going to play Achilles before they started calling her Sinon? Genuine question.
>>221836668Because Odysseus meeting Achilles in the Underworld is one of the most famous scenes in the Odyssey and the trailer made it clear that's where Ellen would show up. Yeah, he meets other people there, but it's natural to think that Achilles would be the center of that sequence.
>>221825607BRAVO VINCE
>>221827290/tv/ chuds obviously never read one fucking sentence of the Odyssey. they were just told it's woke shit from Nerdrotic or Critical Drinker and are so insanely brainwashed to be "anti-woke" they will never shut the fuck up about it and it's "subversion"
>>221827290>Removed Odysseus saying his name is "Nobody" to trick the cyclops>Replaced Achilles with a guy from the Aeneid>Removed Penelope testing Odysseus with the bedWhy are shills so dishonest?
>>221836706Odysseus met like 50 people in the underworld and Achilles was a minor (joyous) part of it.https://www.owleyes.org/text/odyssey/read/book-xiIt was all just outrage marketing.
>>221836572looks same enough
>>221836536yeah, it's my mind that's rotted, not the teeth-gnashing, gargling usual subjects online trying to make it seem like the entire planet is dying because of some shitty movie
>removed >>221836778 being the "pleasure boy"I don't get either.
>>221836455>>221836274I guarantee you guys keep your transphobic opinions to yourself and are too pussy to actually talk like that in front of family/friends/coworkersposting anonymously on 4chan is fun, isn't it?give it a try sometime, go on. go to a family function or the break room at work and ask "so did you guys see that faggot tranny in the Odyssey? what a joke!"
>>221836818Actually we all make fun of retarded trannies whenever they come up
>>221836798If you ask normal people who read the Odyssey in high school or college who Odysseus met in the Underworld most of them (at least, those who remembered) would say Achilles as their first answer. His was the most iconic Underworld interaction, so it makes sense that that would be the one that was used in the trailer.
>>221833112keep in mind that nolan made oppenheimer after robert pattinson gifted him an autobiography about him which was essentially a character assassination of strauss, which explains why the story ended up the way it did.
>>221836853Either Achilles or Odysseus' mother
>>221836778>Removed Penelope testing Odysseus with the bedthis was very disappointing, feels like the film just fucking ends in 2 minutes after the suitors are slain, there's no proper catharsis between husband and wife
>>221825607absolute kinoma
>>221825607just came back from the kinoplex. So, the recurring theme of the movie is 'when someone accept you into their house ( country ), respect the homeowner ( citizen ) and don't ransack their place'? Isn't this kinda problematic with all the immigration issue? Also, the greeks are portrayed as black people? Am I the only one who think this is kinda based? also, zendaya delivered her lines just like her usual american zoomer, if she's not athena then it's a good thing
>>221837001I don't get why they went with "The Greeks are violating xenia" when the entire Trojan War started because that FAGGOT Paris kidnapped Helen while visiting Menelaus.
>>221836853I wouldn't be surprised if it was a deliberate ploy by marketing to bait the outrage to make this flop attract attention.
>>221836305>>221836305>>221836305ALL HAIL OUR KWEEN!!!
>>221837040I also don't why they retconned that Odysseus willingly and regularly fucked Calypso, and only decided to leave because he got bored.
I almost chuckled when Menelaus actually said the 'thousand ship' line while showing the nigger face
>>221836989OH NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!IF ONLY THEY COULD TWIST SIDEWAYS TO SLIP PAST THE TREES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>221837094You know that your post has made me reflect on the absurdity of having a screeching foreigner as a Queen...
>>221836374>le violent leftist pretends to be a moderate to skew opinion consensus
>>221837100No, but seriously, are you people seriously still this unaware that in modern Hollywood women are completely devoid of sin or guilt? Open your fucking eyes already you bastards. THEY. HATE. MEN.
>>221830765Odyssey should have died right after the massacre or at least be unfit for his exile. The fact that he somehow fully recovered for another journey is bullshit.Nolan kinda forgot that the suitors are not be literally who's and their families would want revenge for killing them.
>>221825607it insists upon itself
>>221837100>Epic: The Musical was once again a better adaptation>Even does the whole "Odysseus struggles with guilt" thing better while keeping it truer to Greek thought
>looking at imdb credits to confirm the underworld blind dude who sounded like dexter dad was him>see Ashur actor, playing... himself?what, HE was in the Odyssey?
>>221827290the cannibals dont throw stones at the boats and they dont eat the greeks
>>221836305I would go to war for our Kween!
>>221837156wtf are you talking about? they whitewash odysseus cheating on penelope with circe completely, and they make him a rape victim of calypso who didnt know who he was or if he had a wife.
>>221837313yeah the cannibals were always in full steel armor with long ass swords 2 timers taller then greeks and be able to best veterans of 10 year war inc combat without sweating
>>221837312when they put (as ) means that in credit rolls he appears with that name
>>221837354obssesion part 2 with calypso and odysseus
did they really have to make Circe a feminist?
>>221837475Wasn't she a bitter manhater in the original?
>gates of troy opens>agamemnon stands there aura farmingkinda cringe, kinda coolBRAVO NOLAN
one thing that kinda bothers me watching it is how the time passage isn't conveyed properly. The progression between leaving troy, raiding the first island ( Cicones? ), the giant cannibals, the cyclops, and Circe felt like it all happened in just a week
>>221836918Catharsis between husband and wife is chud coded
>>221837563I dont think they raided the first islandhe asks the man why they abandoned their homes (and probably put the houses on fire themselves)
>>221825743HAHAHAHAHAH what a stupid fucking retarded movieslop
>>221837563The passage of time is something Hollywood hates representing. Haven't you watched anything released in the last 10 years?
>>221837494In the original she assumes Odysseus' crew are out to get her and feels that she has to violently protect her chastity as a priestess of the gods or else these strange men will rape her and the gods will cast her out for being used goods. So she strikes first.When she negotiates with Odysseus she realizes her mistake and turns his men back to normal. And then the two of them fuck for a year straight, which is apparently fine because now the gods approve.Powerful feminist figure, that.
>>221825961watch the movie. Page is seen when he's alive and he does play Sinon
>>221837164The book ending is the gods directly intervene and broker a truce between Odysseus and the suitors families
I don't understand, where was Sinon when they were building the horse?
>>221827290stfu Mike you fetishist
>>221832822you dont use chatgpt if you thought that was chatgpt
>>221832499they're called securitrons anon
>>221836818What is this meant to convey?That they secretly feel bad about their views? Or that they'll be punished by the people in charge for expressing them? We get it, you're a hall monitor for the regime.
>>221825607The funny thing is antiquity actually wrote a good bit about the effects of war on women and soldiers in their plays. I guess it's asking too much for Nolan to borrow from them but if Odyssey is plagued by guilt and regret from the war why not include things like him rallying the Greek soldiers to advocate for Iphigenia's sacrifice, tricking Protesilaus to take the first step at Troy (prophecy said the first man to do so would die), how his actions led to Ajax the Greater's suicide, or the death of Hector's child after the capture of Troy (and the enslavement of the royal family's women). There's loads of shit he can take blame for just picking Sinon and one girl's death at Troy feels too small for him though I guess it might be too much for a three hour movie.
>>221836818Try your experiment out on yourself. Walk into the break room or family function and say "hey guys, isn't cutting your cock off and dressing as a woman GREAT? Aren't the people that dislike it so weird??" Record the applause please.
>>221837903He doesn't see them get in the horse I think. He thinks its actually a gift. They lie to him they need somone left behind to protect the offering from being burned by the trojans for them to get a safe passage home
>>221836143it's up there with the "normal person" in terms of seethe
>>221825607anyone else think the cyclops represents nolan's inner chud?
>>221825607The NBC miniseries portraying the gods is why I like it so much. My sister was screaming at the screen when Hermes showed up telling Odysseus not to trust him. All I want is a portrayal of the Illiad with the gods and all in a stylized manner. Not some dollar store live action production.
>>221837798This should have been in the movie, but Odysseus fucked off and now his son has to deal with angry mob.
https://x.com/ChadVonBraun/status/2077992034216902888Oh no no no noAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>221825607Do they actually behead Zendaya? That would be awesome
>>221837164… that’s a core point and why he won’t let his son help him and why he and his wife have to flee in the movie You have trolls feeding you misinformation because it’s funny to do so. Watch the movie or read on a subject before discussing it Gen Z has an issue with this
>>221836668>What made people think Ellen Page was going to play Achilles before they started calling her Sinon? Genuine question.Probably Achilles being in the Odyssey and Sinon not being in the Odyssey. That might be one of the primary causes.
>>221839197People like me kept flooding rage watching trolls social media for fun with bullshit to watch them rageSee>>221839143It’s quite fun. Millions of YouTube views resulted from probably a dozen of us fucking with culture war bullshit artists
>>221825812yeah, you can either made a realistic movie (like Troy), or a movie with gods and monsters (like the 1997 tv show). The Odyssey choose to remove the Gods but to keep the monsters, it doesn't make any sense. Why would humans doubt gods exist if they encounter cyclops, giants, tentacles monster, witch, sirens...?
>>221825607you just described the theme of every Nolan movie. they're all the same with some different gimmick
Helen of Troy being an ugly nigger doesn't even ruin the movie that much because the film largely paints Helen as just an excuse to go to war
>>221825607>the hollow hidey trojan bamboozler I made for soldiers to infiltrate Troy was used... for soldiers to infiltrate Troy?!?!
>>221839248Adding on The older you get you’ll realize There is no left or right Just poor people being aimed at each other by hired con men. Hired by the born hyper rich. People well beyond elons level of wealth, you never see them unless you live where they live and they rotate with seasons where they live. They keep you busy with hate so you don’t ask why do they have so much and do nothing. Ever. You are breeders. 99.999 of the world is a puppy mill and they choose the genetic outliers to breed with their kids. That’s it. You’ll never question it and you’ll attack the pain sponges like Elon and bezos and gates and trump and Clinton but you’ll never attack them and it’s only getting worse. That’s why technology has basically stopped and ai which is just a magic 8 ball with trillions of responses is sucking up your labor but makes nothing new They’ll prop up controlled opposition like communism and blame minorities like Jews to keep you arguing They started hiding after ww2 because the nukes came
>>221839197>Probably Achilles being in the OdysseyWhat?
>>221836989Was getting caught part of their plan?
>>221826155>Yes ma'am, right away ma'am
>>221825908No, this is a plot point Nolan is getting from Dante. It shouldn't have been included in the movie, but it isn't without precedent.
Can we stop pretending the odyssey is a good story just because it's old? homecoming isn't a theme, it's just a plot. The dude is travelling home. and?
>>221825607Nolan didn't have to adapt the odyssey if he found the mythological epic aspect too goofy. But I think it's a bit like how we wanted to do a Batman trilogy, on some level he clearly has an interest in cultural mythology but wants to do these very grounded takes on them in a way that leads to some very projected characterizations that deviate heavily from the source material. I think it's less an issue for The Odyssey than Oppenheimer (as the latter is about a real person) but it does come off as a projection of our values onto a world where such violence was basically what the gods wanted you to do. Athena's intervention was the only reason the violence stopped in the book.
>>221825607>he saw get beheadedwould the greeks do that. that sounds out of character. feels like nolan is pulling some Vietnam ptsd subplot
>>221839844IIRC, Ajax the Lesser beat Priam to death with his own grandchild.
>>221836818> family They hate them> friends Also hate them and will say edgy shit > coworkers They've spent the last week calling one of our guys a down low ladyboy and other jokes. Im not sure why theyre so fixated on it this week. Other than the guy is Philippino and goes back there semi frequently
>>221839898yeah but i guess there was a reason for that. why would the greek soldiers kill a random innocent civilian. an athena priestess no less. that's a greek goddess.
>>221836818>reddit spacing>turbocuck mentalityGO BACK you retarded niggers.
>>221830866Pattinson drew the straw to go on the voyage. Knowing he would not return, he convinced Page, the 'son' of his family's slave, to swap with him.Odysseus sees this, but feeling sorry for Pattinson, allows him to stay behind, telling everyone that Page had drawn the lot, and Pattinson had tried to swap to replace him. This was to win Page's family freedom and acclaim.Pattinson's family betrayed Page's family, and Pattinson talked about how bravely he tried to take Page's place.If Pattinson actually believes the tale Odysseus spun about staying behind to be the next generation of leaders is not made clear, but the cowardice seems to remain.
>>221825607>Odysseus’ guilt over building the horse and getting the people of Troy killedBut he acted like he didnt give a shit for most of the movie
>>221835987>Odysseus: DON'T DO THIS INCREDIBLY STUPID THING!his men do the incredibly stupid thing, they all die>Odysseus: I have failed
>>221839844Stuff like PTSD existed but how they coped with it was different. Worldview of gods and their favors also means you can offload a lot in a way that catholic guilt or modern harm reduction can sometimes make harder as well.
>>221825607What's your overall take/rating?My impression is that it's kind of just a mid-Nolan flick that is hyped and overrated beyond all belief but in reality is like a 7/10
>>221840556>Stuff like PTSD existedwhy would it. would they casually kill innocents and kids like it's Vietnam
>>221839771The most interesting thing is how it's just a side story that takes place after the really crazy post-Troy shit (Orestes avenging his dad and killing his mom) already happened.
>>221840556I recall a military historian who pointed out how Modern warfare also is way more stressful due to how much quicker you can get killed by forces out of your control. Unsure how I feel on that even if I get being sniped from 400 meters away is a lot harder to avoid than someone shooting arrows at you.But even those arrows flew fast and a skilled archer got incredibly deadly.
>>221840226It does seem odd to single out one helpless girl like that. I wonder if with the reference to Athena it's supposed to evoke the rape of Cassandra in Athena's temple. But one wonders why they didn't just depict that.
>>221840608The killing of innocents in Vietnam was paranoia motivated because soldiers lost their shit believing everyone was working for the Vietcong. Behavior informed by more modern stressors than the behavior of ancient Greeks going by favor of the gods. I'm not sure how much civilian killing happened but it seems naive to believe Greek warriors were above pillaging when one of the antecedents of the Peloponnesian War was the Melian Dialogue.
>>221825607The Odyssey and The Illiad totally revolve around man's relation to the gods and fate. We need a law to stop people from making these godless adaptations.
>>221839642"Nobody" cared who I was until I put on the mask..
>>221840556>Stuff like PTSD existedIn WWI they called it "shell shock" and thought that soldiers were having their brains scrambled by being close to explosions going off around them. Later medical and mental science advanced and they discovered that it was actually post-traumatic stress from the experience of war. But in the War on Terror, they found out that actually shell shock was right in the first place! and all the IEDs were damaging soldiers' brains from the overpressure waves. Explosions are BAD for your brain.
>>221840733Gods (or more accurately, demons) hide themselves and interact with reality in secrecy, which makes this movie accurate to what really happened (the Odyssey was a true story, and it was just a demonic quarrel).
>>221840226The Trojans worshipped the same gods as the Greeks in the Iliad. Athena was a patroness of Troy, even though she turned on it after Paris.
>>221840761If I poked that eye would you die?
>>221840700>was paranoia motivated because soldiers lost their shitgather around everyone. new vietnam child killing cope just dropped
>>221840781Shellshock being a real trauma source doesn't invalidate PTSD.
>>221840921Fine I'll use the traditional cope:The My Lai Massacre was Vietcong propaganda made up by an over overdramatic commie sympathizing helicopter pilot who ordered his crew to fire on American soldiers.
>>221839509>There is no left or right>Just poor people being aimed at each other by hired con men. Hired by the born hyper rich. People well beyond elons level of wealth, you never see them unless you live where they live and they rotate with seasons where they live.that is literally left vs right, genius
>>221836818lmao... get a load of this seething troon.
