>gandalf fights the big monster and fucking dies!!!
>Oh shit yeah we still need him okay we'll bring him back
>No we don't need to explain how or why he came back just have everyone be cool with it lol

>>221978053
As I get older the more I realize Tolkien and the movies are shit. Literally made for children as bed time stories.

>>221978053
>Gandalf The White Supremacist
ugh tolkien is a chud

>>221978053
These movies are white supremacist and monarchist trash

It's divine HR. Saruman did a shit job and Eru promoted Gandalf to his position

>>221978087
You're so close.
>modern culture is shit superficial and infantile
>history autist writes childrens book "to give England a mythic-historic epic"
>D'UHHH THIS IS FOR CHILDREN BUT THERE'S SOMETHIN ABOUT IT DIFFERENT
It's supposed to be a ladder you can climb out of the slime you live in. Sounds like it worked

>>221978086
Hes an angel, sent by god to stop sauron, he can literally come back as much as he wants

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>>221978086
>>gandalf fights the big monster and fucking dies!!!
>>Oh shit yeah we still need him okay we'll bring him back
>>No we don't need to explain how or why he came back just have everyone be cool with it lol
There is a word for what you describe: Kino.

>>221978139
White supremacist yes. Monarchist yes. Why are they trash though?

>>221978087
>>221978217
I read the entirety of these books when I was 9. Meanwhile current day ipad babies can't even read at all. We need more LOTRs

>>221978240
So Star Wars 9 is kino?

>>221978245
Showing the SLIGHTEST hint of anti-monarchism, to the smallest extent whatsoever, is such a red flag lol

>>221978139
Oh so they're excellent then. I'll make sure to watch them

He didn't die, though. He just fell into the water below with the Balrog and was kinda fucked up and had to recover for a while

>>221978268
>Plot device X is kino
>"So plot device X being done by the most incompetent retards is kino?"
Is this an IQ problem with you? Is this congenital?

>>221978276
Anti-monarchism is the song of our ancestors, for hundreds of years people have complained about the inefficiency and anachronism of monarchy. What are you some kind of new age freak?

>>221978086
>>No we don't need to explain how or why he came back just have everyone be cool with it lol

I know this is a shitpost thread and all, but there's actually an entire book that explains exactly how or why he came back, called the Silmarillion. And Tolkien specifically does NOT tell you why in the Lord of the Rings because literally no one alive in the world during that story (except like, Elrond and Galadriel and I guess technically Sauron) know that the Wizards are not just random old dudes with magical powers.

Gandalf's true name is Olorin, a member of the Istari, who are Maiar 'angels' sent to Middle-Earth by the Valar (the "gods" of the world, who serve and rule under the direction of Eru Iluvatar, the prime god) with the mission to walk the world as Men in order to guide the Free Peoples of the world to be able to stand against the darkness of Sauron.

He didn't "die", because Gandalf is not actually a mortal being, he's a celestial entity that is temporarily inhabiting a mortal form. And he does have a very specific task that was given to him by literal God.

This is why when fighting the Balrog (who is, actually, another Maiar being corrupted by Sauron in the prior age), Gandalf says that he is a "Servent of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor", which many people hear and think he's just saying that he's just some powerful Fire Wizard, but that's not at all what he's saying. He's telling the Balrog that he is a direct servant of Eru and a protector of the Flame Imperishable, the spirit sung into the world by the gods.

>>221978256
Having read the series along with The Hobbit earlier this year I'm honestly not sure if I want to also watch the movies since they apparently cut some of my favorite bits. It's a shame how kids won't get stories that fun anymore since women have utterly ruined book publishing.

>>221978139
>Tolkein, white supremacist
Not really, he even noted when trying to get them published in Germany that he's not Jewish but would be happy if he was.
>Monarchist
Absolutely was, genuinely hated British parliament. He really wanted monarchy to have all the power again.

>>221978344
J.R.R. Tolkien was not involved in the Peter Jackson films.

>>221978329
If you really liked the Hobbit book, you'll very likely not like the movies at all.

I remember early on when LotR came out in '01 and a lot of people were really contentious about the fact that they made some changes to the story to make it fit a little better, and they cut some parts that on balance do end up being important context later on (such as the Barrow Wight chapter in the first book, but also Tom Bombadil, etc.), but ultimately people sort of broke on the side of the films and everyone pretty much agrees that even with the minor exclusions, the films are great and accomplish everything they needed to.

The Hobbit movies...are not the same. I personally find the first 45 minutes or so of the first movie alright, but it goes pretty well off the rails halfway in and never recovers, and then it's just a straight decline after that. And this is because rather than cutting some scenes for brevity and flow like the LotR films did, the Hobbit movies opt instead to pad things out with extra stuff that was not at all in the book and was written wholesale for the films, most of which is action schlock or pointless characters, or cameos by Lord of the Rings actors, and none of it works.

>>221978322
Makes me wonder what Radagast's mission was since iirc from the book he was just about nature and shit, then only showed up to inadvertently lead Gandalf into a trap.

>>221978356
Yeah, no shit, he died in 1973.

>>221978356
So you're suggesting peter jackson is a white supremacist and monarchist? I applied your dumbass statement to Tolkein because then it's at least partially true, but if you wanna double down on being a retard, have fun.

>>221978218
isn't sauron's man an angel too?

>>221978303
The important thing is that you fed him attention.

>>221978316
The song of the retarded part of our ancestors, maybe. Everyone with a 2 digit IQ is staunchly pro monarchism. The only real question is about constitutional vs. absolute monarchy, but no-one sane is against monarchy altogether.

>>221978462
>you'll very likely not like the movies at all.
Yeah, I actually looked up some of the scenes while I was watching it and it was a rough time. Bard using a normal bow and arrow to fell Smaug to the movie making it some giant Ballista and Lake-town being this retarded shantytown over water was even worse. The river scene is bad without needing anything to be said, along with fucking Legolas being around (??????)

>>221978532
>watching it
Reading it*
FUCK

>>221978464
It's not really ever mentioned directly, that I'm aware of, but the general concept of the Istari Order is that they're meant to use their domains of expertise to help unite and guide the Free Peoples to conquer Saron's evil. Saruman was more of a lore and strategy guy, his purpose largely focused on knowing everything he could about the Enemy and being the wisest and most steadfast counsel that leaders of the Free Peoples could seek out when they needed it. But this caused him to peer too deeply into Sauron's mind and methods, and eventually his own pride and ego caused him to fall from that path and instead attempt to try and ally with, and then replace Saruon.

Radagast was given a task by the Valar to protect the natural world from the corruption of Saruon. He originally did commune with Elves and Men about that kind of thing early on, but he eventually stopped and just became so consumed by his communion with the wildlife that he became a solitary hermit.

Basically, Gandalf is the only one of the 5 who actually kind of stayed with the job and kept at it.

>>221978606
Guess it helps that with Gandalf being more of a nomad that he never had enough time to really stay around and focus on something to fuck with his concentration on his mission aside from his affinity for the little bastard Hobbits and fucking with the innkeeper from Bree. Shame a lot of this shit never happened in the movies because the little bits of worldbuilding were so interesting to see, like Tom marrying a river spirit(?)

>>221978523
Yeah and thats why he will never be gone for good

>>221978727
Yeah, but they make a point that Sauron is only really ever gonna be a threat for the one period of time during the book. Would be amusing to imagine him trying to manifest during a period where men have actual firearms and he gets his fucking skull canoed.

>>221978492
That anon, not me, said the movies are white supremacist and monarchist. The movies are pretty explicit about their theme, not that they need to be, since it's Tolkien's theme that the world slowly gets worse over time. Back in his day, you weren't a white supremacist for thinking that. Today you are.

>bad storytelling happens in LOTR
>"uhhhhh... GOD decided it should happen!"

>>221978709
Gandalf was known as the "Grey Pilgrim" because he spent like, the entirety of the Third Age just wandering around Middle Earth, turning up in every different kingdom every few years to give them counsel and see what's up.

It's very glossed over in the movies, in fact one of my biggest annoyances in the movies is a very, very tiny one where it transitions from Gandalf leaving Bag End telling Frodo "Keep it secret, keep it safe" and then riding off seeking answers to questions. And then there's a little bit of a montage of him arriving in Minas Tirith, reading documents, learning about Isildur's writing about the One Ring, and then showing up unannounced in Bag End before sending Frodo out on the road to Bree. That whole time period between him leaving Bag End and then returning is 11 fucking years. And the movie doesn't even make a single mention of that, which I feel like if they literally just threw in some sort of indication with a line or comment or something, it would make that whole situation feel way different.

Ironically, it's that 11 year period where in the extended writings, Gandalf connects with Aragorn and they set off to try and find and capture Gollum before Sauron does, that they're making a movie about (which I am not interested in).

But it does show that Gandalf literally just shows up, sometimes decades since his last visit, in places, and I love how no one in Middle Earth is ever like "Hey, this dude showed up to give the last king counsel on stuff, and he was old as fuck then, and now he's back like 20 years later and he still looks the same. What's up with that?" Gandalf has been walking around Middle Earth looking like an old dude for 2500 years, for the record.

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>>221978218
>>221978523
>>221978322

>>221978903
it's obviously not supposed to be an 11 year time skip in the film.

>>221978857
Tolkein had all his bible-like lore that became the silmarillion before Lord of the rings was ever written. The publisher asked if he was interested in doing a sequel because the Hobbit sold like crazy and were horrified when they read what he was writing. This all was absolutely thought outf by him before he wrote the trilogy

>>221978984
>Tolkein
lorelet chud detected

>>221978920
It is, and the fact that they're trying to make a movie using the same actors to elaborate on it in-canon tells you that it was clearly meant to be. They just cut any mention of it out of the script when they made the films.

Again, it's a small quibble I have, no one else cares.

>>221978909
Yes, there's an entire book about this. It goes into the whole story about how Melkor/Morgoth led a rebellion against the Valar, then Sauron fled Valinor, convinced the Numenoreans to invade Valinor to try and steal immortality from the Elves, causing Eru to cut Valinor off from the physical world and destroy Numenor, and then how Sauron and the Men of the West all went to Middle Earth and he plotted to become the Second Dark Lord and control the world that he had been banished to.

It's all in there. And the Lord of the Rings is like, one single year of events that caps off that multi-thousand-year written history.

>>221978086
he got sent back by god, Galadriel told Gwaihir to pick him up from the mountainside. he flew to Rohan and claimed Shadowfax

Sauronman got corrupted by his lust for power, so they retired gandalf the grey and sent another version of Saruman

>>221979127
I'm distinguishing the movie from the promotional materials here. I'm sure there's a glossy book that says Gandalf was away for 11 years, just nothing cinematic.

>>221978053
>Actually my name is Olorin and i am a maiar the same kind of spirit as Sauron and the Balrog, Eru Illuvatar the literal god of the universe brought me back to help you guys out because the Valar which are the strongest of the spirits believed it was better to send 5 ultranerfed maiar to help you out instead of just one shotting Sauron themselves, also we were all part of creation lol
What did he mean this?

>>221979357
Sauron was such a weak bitch all they had to do was send 1 wizard to give council to the race of men

>>221979127
The Silmarilion is trash and wasn't released during Tolkien's lifetime, but only posthumously decades after the LotR books. This means that going "ackchually it does make sense, its all explained in the Silmarillion" is cope, as nobody could have possibly know anything about it when the books came out.

>>221979357
>it was better to send 5 ultranerfed maiar to help you out instead of just one shotting Sauron themselves, also we were all part of creation lol

The reason that the Valar don't come across the spiritual ocean and just send their own army to take out Sauron in Middle Earth is specifically because they already did that multiple times before with Morgoth, and the scale of that conflict caused an entire continent to break apart and sink into the ocean killing millions. Then it happened again in the Second Age against Numenor.

Plus, Eru's entire concept was that he had gifted Men with the Flame of the World so that they could inherit Middle Earth for themselves and control it without the imposition of the gods, they were specifically meant to be Free People with free will and self-reliance. So if they gods came down and fought their battles for them, they would never grow to become worth of the gifts given to them.

This is because Tolkien was very much a devout Catholic, and he wanted his story to echo that of the Bible, where after centuries of God and angels interfering with the world, it was given over to Man to do what he will with his own freedom, and the word of God was left with them to guide them rather than angels coming down and protecting them from the evils that the universe holds.

>>221978053
>Gandalf why can't you use your magical powers to beat Sauron or at least help stop Sauronman from opera'ing the mountain on top of us!!
>god said I can't or something, now fetch me my weedpipe!!

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>>221978086
read the books

>>221978053
>nolanoids will now shit on every movie ever made to make odyssey look better
lmao

>>221978909
wish i could throw you into a woodchipper, fucking faggot retard

>>221978984
>the Silmarillion
>good storytelling

>>221979541
Why are you so triggered?

>>221979463
The original printings of the Lord of the Rings did actually include some appendices that provided context to things like the downfall of Numenor when they tried to invade Aman/Valinor, the reshaping of the world by Eru Illuvatar, and the identity of Sauron as an apostate servant of Morgoth from the First Age, as well as the fact that Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast were emissaries sent by the Valar around the year 1000 of the Third Age to resist Saruon, arriving in the guise of old men.

It didn't have nearly all of the history, the specific details of the people, places, religious concepts, and cosmic aspects if the Ainur, Music of the Creation, the pantheon of the Valar and the Maiar, etc. etc., but there was enough in there that someone reading the book wouldn't be completely in the dark about the connections of the characters within the stories they just read.

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>>221978053
>you’re back! How?

>>221979640
People who make stuff like this must go crazy reading a history book.

>>221979640
ai-rusê

>>221979616
>as well as the fact that Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast were emissaries sent by the Valar around the year 1000 of the Third Age to resist Saruon, arriving in the guise of old men.
No the appendices don't say that. They say that "they came out of the Far West and were messengers sent to contest the power of Sauron, and to unite all those who had the will to resist him". Nothing about Valar or Maiar or whatever.

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>>221978053
LotR is so filled with plotholes its insane. During the first hour of the first film it is constantly repeated how obsessed Sauron is with the ring and how all his attention is fixated on it etc, and the Nazgul are built up as these terrifying antagonist who specialize in hunting the ring.
Then they get flushed away with water once and never try to get the ring again for the rest of the trilogy. Sauron just gives up on the ring, even though he knows EXACTLY where it is. He could easily send the Nazgul to watch all the exits of Rivendell (where Frodo canonically stays for like three months) and get them.
There's about 2.5 km of perimeter that the Nazgul's would have to guard to keep the Fellowship from escaping with the ring. Shills will say that this is impossible to do, yet they claim that the Nazgul could guard the 3000+ km perimeter of all of Mordor to make sure no eagle enters.

>>221978256
lotr is slave moralist

>>221980155
>AI slop

>>221978087
That's literally how The Hobbit was made so you are right. It sprawled out of a bed time story.

>>221978268
Dude you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, it's explained god sent Gandalf back to finish his job, Palpatine has literally no explanation

>>221980665
>it's explained god sent Gandalf back to finish his job,
no its not

>>221980155
The Nazgul were grievously wounded and basically lost the ability to maintain a corporeal form after they were washed down the river. They had to crawl back to Minas Morgul before they were able to return to the fight, and that took months.

>>221980723
So there were several months during which they could have flown to mount doom on the eagles completely risk free?

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>>221980723
Then why not speedrun the Eagles to Mt.Doom and drop the ring off? If the air defense systems were down for a long period.

>>221980843
>>221980869
No, because there were still Nazguls around Mount Doom on their flying mounts which were far more dangerous. The ones that went to The Shire and chased Frodo weren't all of the Nazguls.

>>221978139
Peter hackson is as woke as they get, retard.

>>221978053
He got enough good boy points that god gave him a 1UP.
That's actually what happened.

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>villain is evil because his friends didn't like his singing

>>221981058
>everyone busts out into a musical and has fun
>some drooling retard comes in clapping and yelling loudly off-beat
He got what he deserved.

>>221980843
>>221980869
Gwaihir told Gandalf he didn't want to carry a burden, he didn't consider Gandalf a burden, he did with the ring.
>>221980891
There were 3 of 4 Nazgul in the shire, but they were all there at ford Bruinen where they got washed away by the river

>>221981231
>look it up
>it's true
Oh man I'm retarded, I was thinking the one flying above the Dread Marshes and the one Merry stabbed wasn't there, it's been a few months since I read the books so I likely forgot, I think I was just assuming the four or five that were following Frodo were washed off.

>>221980891
No, all 9 were flushed away. They had to crawl then to Mordor.

>>221981231
Gwaihir isn't the only Eagle, theres more.

>>221980155
>He could easily send the Nazgul to watch all the exits of Rivendell (where Frodo canonically stays for like three months) and get them.

How much did it take for them to recover after being flushed, they couldn't just chill there indefinetely, there was some time pressure to get moving IIRC.

>>221978268
Was there a LOTR announcement on Fortnight?

>>221978322
I am absolutely never going to read all that shit you just wrote. Blah blah fucking blah. Learn to be concise.

>>221979587
When did I say the silmarillion was good story telling. I even said the opposite that the publishers were horrified when they read his indexes and stuff that would become the silmarillion

>>221981631
Silmarillion has good storytelling, but the early versions had dumb shit like Sauron being a giant cat and Morgoth who climbs the tree to escape Valar so they cut it down.

>>221980155
Glorfindel, Aragorn and Gandalf are all in Rivendell though. Each of them has already proven a match for multiple nazgul. If the Nazgul are staked out at the exit, all three of them can just march out and beat the absolute fuck out of all nine of those bitch as wraiths. The fuck Khamul gone do?

>>221980155
>Nazgul's would have to guard to keep the Fellowship from escaping with the ring
Not with Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimly, Elrond, Elladan, Elrohir, Glorfinde and hobbits with 3 blades of Westernesse (who drag the wraiths out of the spirit realm and make them vulnerable to physical harm).
They would have been destoryed and Sauron would be finished before the Fellowship even got started

>>221978053
Correct

>>221981732
>Silmarillion has good storytelling
Its fucking garbage. Its all like this:
>>The Sneedels were the eldest of the Feedlings. They loved the sea and gems, and they collected lots of pearls all day under the stars. The Chucklets were of slightly smaller build, though likewise children of Seederim. They also loved the sea and gems, and they would spend their time under the stars, singing about gems. The Sneederiots lived on Chuck's farm, under the stars, for three ages longer than the Sneedariums. They feared the sea, though they too loved gems and they quickly became masters of crafting beautiful works from the gems of the earth under the stars. They looked like dew drops on leafs, under the stars.
In fact, its so bad that I wonder whether Tolkien actually wrote it or if its a Brian Herbert situation.

>>221981742
Except that the Lord of the Nazgul terrified even Gandalf who even cited a prophecy about no men being able to defeat him and ontop of that only Merriadoc's dagger had the correct smithing to kill his AT field.

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>>221981659
Holy slop.

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>>221978053
>>gandalf?!?!
>>you’re back! How?
>>uhhhhhhhhh it wasn’t time or something
>Bravo Tolkien. Masterpiece
I don't want to give you and spoilers, but if you think LoTRs was bad you're really not gonna like the bible much.

>>221982013
Didn't Glorfindel put the scare into the Nazgul when he revealed his power level?

>>221981925
>i-is this a paragraph without any dialogue or pew-pew, bing-bing-wahooo?

>>221978322
>because literally no one alive in the world during that story (except like, Elrond and Galadriel and I guess technically Sauron) know that the Wizards are not just random old dudes with magical powers.
What? Every single elf, every single one that's not born on Middle Earth should know, what the fuck are you talking about
Why single out Elrond and Galadriel? lol lorelet dunning krugger

>>221982013
Good thing Glorfindel isn’t a man either. But here’s the facts. Aragorn stood up to five of them and chased them off before he even had Anduril, now he’s leaving Rivendell with it. Gandalf briefly fought a defensive battle against all nine and caused so much trouble for them that four of them went after him and he kept them distracted for days. Then when all nine reunited Glorfindel washed them away. Plus the rest of the Company would be with them. Legolas in particular is notable. The first time one of the nine flew above him on a fell beast he slew the mount with a single arrow. Even if all they can do is temporarily cause them to lose shape or flee, it’s a foregone conclusion. Glorfindel alone stomps all nine. Aragorn and Gandalf together are equal to all nine. Boromir, Legolas or Gimli could all individually handle one. And all the weapons that can hurt them that you mention? The hobbits are carrying them, except for Frodo. Why shouldn’t Sam let Aragorn borrow his barrow blade? If they work that out Aragorn instantly goes from being a serious impediment to an existential threat.

>>221982086
>>221982560
Here is a pickle. It is no man, lower case m, meaning no male or general humanoid, not referring to the race of Men. Otherwise the prophecy collapses due to a conflicting category error.

>>221982644
Except Tolkien intentionally leaves his own interpretation vague. Did Merry kill the Witch King, or was it Eowyn? No man, as in a female human, or nor man, as in a male non human? Again, whether Glorfindel can kill the Witch King is irrelevant. He can hinder the absolute shit out of him, knocking him back at every turn. And the question was “how come the company can safely leave Rivendell”.

Like it or not, your answer is “Glorfindel was there”.

>>221982633
You are somewhat correct. I remember Legolas hitting a fell beast but did it kill it?

Why did Gandalf flee ASAP with Pippin to MT as soon as one fell beast with a Nazgul tried to get to him when they thought he was in Orthanc and not simply confront and kill the Nazgul.

>>221982715
I need to re read that party iirc Glorfindel, Gandalf and Elrond had to combine their powers to wash the Nazgul away.

If Glorfindel is so powerful then why choose Legolas instead of him for the quest doe? Would he beef with Gimli too much?

>>221980155
>LotR is so filled with plotholes its insane. During the first hour of the first film it is constantly repeated how obsessed Sauron is with the ring and how all his attention is fixated on it etc, and the Nazgul are built up as these terrifying antagonist who specialize in hunting the ring.


This is the problem with people confusing the concept of an omniscient and truthful narrator, with information that comes from the mouth of characters.

All the people talking about the Nazgul and what they can and can't do? HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY ENCOUNTERED THEM.

Do you not comprehend that the One Ring, something that is ostensibly the most important relic on the planet during the course of the events of the story, is something that one single dude plucked off of the severed hand of a demigod 3000 years ago, and then wore as a necklace for a few years before he died and then it was never need again for 3000 fucking years? Meaning that with the literal exception of Elrond who was actually present at Mount Doom with Isildur, no one in the entire book has ever actually even seen the Ring in person, much less has any idea what it does, how it does it, or why, and the only reason they know it exists is because the story of cutting it from Sauron's hand basically became a semi-religious myth for one of the races of people that are still around.

Also, by the way, the Nazgul? THEY have never seen the Ring at all. They all died while they were under the sway of the rings Sauron gave to them, but they've never even seen the actual One Ring in person except in that one moment when they fight Frodo at Weathertop.

>>221982813
So the ring is actually worthless and Sauron doesn't want it?

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>>221978086
>>221978087
>>221978098

the istari are glowniggers and this is just the equivalent of a glowie getting into some deep shit and calling in a tomahawk strike from a coastal naval ship to get him out of it. nothing is poor about this plot/writing wise and his return is used to trip you up about whats going on since he gets confused as saruman at first and it helps reinforce the idea that this isnt a world ending conflict, there are powers outside of whats in middle earth and they can choose to act or not act at will. this is also why tolkien like tom in the story. middle earth isnt the main character of the setting, its just some bullshit happening in pakistan that no one important really cares much about which is literally a major plot point since its the very reason that sauron does what he does even though he knows about the higher powers, he expects them not to care and hes 99% correct after even literal thousands of years fucking around and doing whatever he wants as mini satan

read the books. tolkien gets UNDERRATED now since the movies and everything are so popular and people like to be contrarian

>>221982147
>What? Every single elf, every single one that's not born on Middle Earth should know, what the fuck are you talking about

This is incorrect. The Istari are sent to Middle Earth concealed. The Silmarillion specifically calls out "Even among the Elves, none knew whence they came save Cirdan of the Havens, and Elrond, and Galadriel; and they were the Lords of the Wise". None of the other elves were aware of the identity of the Istari, and you know this is true because literally no Elf in the entire story ever refers to Gandalf as anything other than "Mithrandir".

>>221982957
>no Elf in the entire story ever refers to Gandalf as anything other than "Mithrandir".
"Tell me where is Gandalf" - Celeborn

>>221982725
He kills the fell beast, but not the Nazgul. Gandalf confirms this.

As for why Gandalf would appear to flee I suppose it’s a combination of him needing to reach Minas Tirith anyway, and wanting to keep Pippin safe. Plus it sells the illusion as best they can that Pippin may be the ring bearer. When it comes down to it, Gandalf the White is prepared to confront the Witch King one on one and we never see who would have won. But unlike the lukewarm way the extended editions include that scene, Gandalf intentionally chooses the moment, he isn’t ambushed, and when he does, he doesn’t bring a hobbit as a liability for himself.

>>221982786
Glorfindel is the one directing the waves as far as I remember. But yes he is assisted. Gandalf added the flourish of horses in the water. You actually might be right. Elrond may have provided the authority and the bulk of the power. But all three are still present in Rivendell when the company sets out.

>>221982786
Out of universe? Glorfindel was meant to be one of the nine walkers. Tolkien decided he was too powerful and didn’t fit in. Legolas is a later addition after the Company needed a new Elf.

In universe, same logic. The decision is made not to oppose the nine riders by force, but to move with stealth and secrecy. A big part of the reason why so many hobbits end up going.

>>221982847
"Worthless" is a strange word, because it implies that it is given value by someone. Sauron needs it, obviously, but he doesn't attempt to seek it out to trade for, instead he expends immense resources to try and capture it. Does that make it "worth" that cost? I suppose. Sauron very clearly does not need the One Ring to conquer Middle-Earth, he's actually pretty capable of doing that without it, as shown by the fact that he raises an astronomical army to crush the stronghold of Men that is Minas Tirith and has already sacked the rest of Gondor to that point.

He wants the Ring because it's the only weak point he has, it's the thing that makes him not whole, and his spirit is dependent on it, so he fears someone else may use its power and undermine him.

>>221982975
You know what I mean, motherfucker. Gandalf and Mithrandir are the same name. Gandalf is what he calls himself, the elves call him "Grey Pilgrim" in their language. They do not refer to him by his Maiar name, because they do not know he is a Maiar.

>>221983093
>Gandalf and Mithrandir are the same name
they're obviously not

>>221983093
Gandalf is a human name for him. “Wand Elf”. Humans assume he’s an Elf because he lives so long.

>>221983177
Doesn't it come from the Hobbits thinking he is a "Grand Elf"?

>>221979496
This is actually good worldbuilding to explain his quick return compared to Sauron and Sauronman. If you don't act all evil and spam your powers God gives you the insta respawn perk.

>>221983204
Rings of Power isn’t cannon.

>>221983093
>>221983146
>>221983177
BTFO!

>>221978086
>>gandalf fights the big monster and gets aids and dies (they have gay sex while fighting)
>>Oh shit yeah we still need him okay we'll bring him back
>>No we don't need to explain how or why he came back just have everyone be really fucking gay

>>221978322
How did Gandalf know about the flame if even Morgoth didn't know it existed?

>>221982957
>none knew whence they came save Cirdan of the Havens, and Elrond, and Galadriel
So basically you need to be a ringbearer to be in the loop.

>>221982080
>Jesus will return... in Avengers: Doomsday

>>221982715
>how come the company can safely leave Rivendell
when the fellowship waited in Rivendell for 3 months Elladan, Elrohir, Aragorn and a couple of other elves went abroad to scout out potential routes for the fellowship to take. They found dead horses and rags of cloaks the Nazgul wore, deeming them reduced to their base form and probably on the run back to Mordor. Nazgul can only smell and feel the presence of beings, they can't see, which is why they need horses or those dragons

>>221981822
What about Smee, Maimen, Dr Pavelier, Button Lee, Juan Oveaus

>>221983327
How did Gandalf...know about the thing that he was literally created to embody and help shepherd the inheritors of?

>>221983332
I broad strokes, basically. By that point, the Elves had enough understanding of the purpose of the Rings that it was important that they understand who these new people entering Middle Earth from somewhere outside were, and why these non-Elf outsiders would be communing with them and forming council with them.

>>221978053
>gandalf?!?!
>you're back! How?
>I shiggy diggy

>gandalf?!?!
>you’re back! How?
>No, I'm his brother....Mandalf

>>221978053
No one's ever really gone.

>>221985065
based

>>221983852
Oh shit I forgot about Elronds sons. Yes. It was better to move secretly because the point of the mission wasn’t open conflict. But if all nine Nazgul did post up at the exit, it was possible for them to be met by:

Glorfindel, Elrond, Aragorn (bearing Anduril reforged), Gandalf, Elladan and Elrohir, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli (arranged in rough order of magnitude of how FUCKED the Nazgul would be). With four Westernesse daggers to share among the party if needed.

Get absolutely KEKED TO FUCK wraithshits. A combined magical offensive from Gandalf, Elrond and Glorfindel was enough to force you to retreat to your master last time. You thought Aragorn was scary the last time when he only had two burning brands? Now he has the sword which cut the ring from your master’s hand. You’ll just aim for the weaker members of this group? Think again you stupid fucking dwimmerlaik, they’re each strapped with a barrow blade.

A woman, and all four foot three or so of Merry brought down your leader with one of these daggers. What are you going to do when the 6’4 Gondorian Captain of the Guard comes straight at you with one? You’ll screech and scare him? No chance, Gandalf will just kindle his courage with Narya.

Gonna fly or ride away? Legolas is going to one shot your horse/fell beast. Nazgul defenders, please respond. Legitimately I want to know, what do you think your boys in black are going to do in this situation? Personally? I think they’ll job. Like they always do when they aren’t menacing defenceless hobbits.

>>221978053
GRRM criticized this and then did the exact same thing numerous times.

Hack writers just love fakeout deaths.

>>221985305
It’s not a fake out though. Gandalf does die. He just resurrects. Same as many other characters in myth, literature, religion or fiction. You can dislike that plot point if you want, but it really wasn’t intended as a fakeout or a false cliffhanger. Just a further explanation of the rules of the legendarium.

>>221985390
Except that its never explained at all

gandalf the grey was such a chill guy

gandalf the white is BOOORIIINNGGG

>>221985390
>. Gandalf does die

True, he gets resurrected and comes back stronger, but all that really does is make death seem cheaper because God can just intervene and fix things.

Dead characters coming back just undercuts the feeling of loss.

>>221984657
they were sent to Barad Dur on Eagles with some of Sarumans blasting powder in case the quest failed. That's why the Eagles showed up out of nowhere during the battle of the Black Gate
there we no survivors

>>221985427
>>221985491
Gandalf the grey dies, Saruman the white is corrupted by power
so they send Gandalf back as what the white wizard was supposed to be
If Sauron would have won, they could have always flooded the rest of Middle Earth and be done with that mess

>>221985427
Yes it is. It’s just not explained exhaustively. Gandalf provides a partial explanation to his allies, which is eventually transcribed to the best of Frodo’s understanding.

Again, like it or not, the author describing as best they can the actions of someone they didn’t fully understand is a common literary device. It lets the audience fill in the gap.

>>221985491
Except nowhere is it implied a quick resurrection is on the table for everyone. Boromir doesn’t come back. If the rest of the characters we follow die, then they’ll stay dead. Gandalf performs the same role in this book as he always has since the hobbit. He is simultaneously working on the earthly mission and something higher. He knows more than those around him, and because they’re the ones telling the story later, we the audience don’t know everything he knows. Are you actually media illiterate?

this is so stupid. it shows him going into space. he's given more lives by the aliens that give Middle-earth its magic.

>>221978139
Tolkein was a philosemite and anti-allegorical, and the films are made in hollywood. the only way you could see it being a caricature of anything is by tacit admission of your own prejudices

>>221985699
>>221985427
>>221985491
Gandalf literally cannot truly die as he's not actually an old man, you know that right? He wasn't raised from childhood to be a wizard, he was sent to Middle Earth and inhabited the vessel of an elderly man to restrict his power. He's an angel.

>>221986907
His body can absolutely die, which it does. And it was never guaranteed he would get a do over.

>>221987213
Cannot truly die. He is an angel, he just returns to Illuvatar.

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>>221978053
>gandalf?!?!
>you’re back! How?
heh, yesh uhhh well you see, soo th-that's like another story, for another time dudes
*winks at the crowd and explodes fireworks revealing everyone's social security number and full legal name*

>>221987237
Sure. But do enough damage to his mortal body, and it does die. He did not have the automatic right to a second body. It was granted situationally.

>>221981925
The jannies must need to do the needful with these pathetic pajeets here...

>>221982015
>when you know the thread is indian coded

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tell me about the dwarves - how deep and how greedily did they REALLY dig?
did they just like to make stuff out of metal? or did they lick and take some chomps out of the rocks as they mined?

>>221980155
No one cares, sukdeep dikshit

>>221987543
i like the silmarillion but tolkien didnt write it. its a bunch of random notes that his son published, its literally not a book by jrr tolkien

>>221978053
The movie didnt fully adapt everything known or explained in the novels, and people who have only seen the movies dont understand certain context or are left without key information.

>>221978053
Tolkien is a hack

>>221981117
>Eru then claims it was all according to keikaku

The Silmarillion is fucking BORING. Just a completely unnecessary lore dump that doesn't matter to anything that happens in The Hobbit or Lord of the Rings.

>>221980155
the Elves at Rivendell, one of their strongholds, could very easily handle themselves against the Nazgul. You're retarded.

>>221981117
>yokoOno.webm

>>221979308
>I'm distinguishing the movie from the promotional materials here.
>promotional materials
Anon are you one of those hobbits from the amazon series because your stupidity is excusable if you were born this stupid.

>>221978086
>>gandalf fights the big monster and fucking dies!!!
>>Oh shit yeah we still need him okay we'll bring him back
>>No we don't need to explain how or why he came back just have everyone be cool with it lol
>gandalf dies fighting the balrog a creature on the same level as him
>Eru picks up his spirit and tells him you didn't finish the job, it's time for overtime.
>Shoves Gandalf back into his body like he's a japanese salaryman being reincarnated into his 9 to 7
>Eru tells him that he gets to be white now as a compensation though it's really just a title change with no pay bump

>>221978329
>Having read the series along with The Hobbit earlier this year I'm honestly not sure if I want to also watch the movies since they apparently cut some of my favorite bits. It's a shame how kids won't get stories that fun anymore since women have utterly ruined book publishing.
>>221978462
>If you really liked the Hobbit book, you'll very likely not like the movies at all.
The hobbit live action movies are terrible, the old rankin/bass cartoon version gets closer to what it should be even if it's got it's own problems. There are some nice points in the jackson hobbit movies but there isn't really anything that makes you want to rewatch them.
The LOTR movies are about as fine a set of movies as we could ever have gotten out of hollywood for this story.

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So what's the biggest LOTR plothole?