Isn't this a bit anachronistic for 1519?
Man shut your bitch ass up, sanjay. Go find a latina gf in central or south america instead of jerking off to cartoons
>Disney
>>222107942Sup, Rajesh. Stay in your Atlantis thread
Her outfit you mean? Yeah, her breechcloth is actually a male garment, and her top isn't something you really see the Maya wear, I don't think. Not sure why they didn't go with a quechquemitl, especially when a lot of the background characters have reasonably decent Mesoamerican or even distinctly Maya fashion and aeshetics. For reference pic related shows more authentic redesigns by someone specializing in Mesoamerican fashion, you can read more details behind the clotyhing choices and see the uncensored version here: deviantart.com/kamazotz/art/Historically-Accurate-Chel-509575222The movie as a whole though is pretty decent in terms of authenticity: Obviously it makes a variety of fictional and fantasy concessions, with the city being made of gold, there being magic, giant fish and birds, etc, but it's not really claiming to be accurate and despite that gets a lot right:The city's layout and architectural forms of the temples are pretty much just the real Classic Maya city of Tikal (admittedly, which collapsed like 700 years before when the fim takes place), even down to the large reservoirs/basins, but with extra acropolis, and with more northern, early postclassic Puuc, Rio Bec, or Chenes style architectural accenting over it's buildings and structuresAs I mentioned the clothing of background characters is decent, the sacrifice/gold offering scene at the cenote is a real ceremony the northern Postclassic Maya did (they just exaggerate the cenote into a giant whirlpool), at one point Tzkel-kan (who looks VERY Maya in terms of his facial features, he's the spitting image of the idealized sculptures and busts the Maya made and modified their heads to look like) pulls out a accurate mesoamerican codex/book, etc. Contrary to what some people say Cortes being around is also fine since he did poke around the Yucatan Peninsula a bit and get into conflicts and trade with various Maya groups prior to his expedition moving into Central Mexico1/?
>>222107462>anachronisticAll revisionism is acceptable as long as it subverts whiteness. Otherwise, it's called "problematic."
Here's another more accurate chel the same artist did>>222108888Cont:It also, you know, actually depicts the Maya as having a functional society with markets, kids playing in streets, etc. Compare it to Apocalypto, which I'd say actually is fairly similar in it's ratio of accurate to anachronistic to totally made up elements (it even similarly has Tikal-esque temples with puuc accenting on top), except apocalyptic is colorless and dirty and makes out both the small village and larger city into dysfunctional pastiches, the former as a hippie noble savage tribal eden and the latter to be a sadistic nightmare ride through a bunch of stuff that's just meant to be horrifying rather then making sense in day to day life (at least taken as a whole, in isolation some of it's details are fine, but it cherrypicks and strings them together in a comically misrepresentative way)Which goes to show you how even two things being very similar on paper can still leave very different impressions just based on a few small differences: I love The Road to El Dorado and while I respect Apocalypto as a film, I think it's pretty terrible from an authenticity perspective: Dorado just actually having color and showing the local society and population as being normal ass people with political and social institutions alone makes a huge difference, but it also helps that Dorado isn't even pretending to be grounded also helps by setting expectations lower.I will say I don't like how the movie depicts sacrifice as just something Tzekal-kan is pushing on the rest of the city without them liking it. Sacrifice was a important religious practice that tied into broader, systemic beliefs and theological concepts. Not that most people would frequently actually see, participate in doing, or would be victims of sacrifices directly, but they were all a part of and participated in other rites and ceremonies that were linked with sacrifices were and indirectly "complicit". 2/3
>>222109048Cont:Technically you could argue what the film does is an abstraction of how at least some research shows that smaller towns/villages didn't do much (if any?) sacrifice, which was mostly a practice in larger city-state capitals rather then their dependencies, apparently (tho I need to look at that research more and it comes from Central Mexico rather then the maya areas), which supports the idea of it being a way for political rulers to flex and reenforce their power, but to me making the sacrifices all Tzekal-kan's fault just feels cheap and lazy:It's an "easy way out" to pin the blame on a single villain rather then having to approach and grapple with the fact that it was a broader social practice everybody was okay with. I'm not really sure what they should have done instead there, any attempt to really explore the practice in depth would take time away from other stuff in the movie and it's not trying to be a serious examination of Maya religious beliefs to begin with, but I don't know, I don't think it'd have been an issue if they just had it be something the whole city wanted and was fine with, and just instead having Tzekal-kan be somebody who is militantly trying to increase the scale and especially the cruelty of them past what was already normalized, or something.Finally, it repeating the (probable) misconception that the Spanish were seen as gods is also not great but it kind of plays into the whole conceit and premise of the movie and that's hard to alter without redoing the entire foundation of the film, and at least does all but say that Tannabok knows they aren't gods.Happy to answer more questions people have about the movie's mesoamerican influences, other Mesoamerican /tv/ media, or about mesoamerican history and archeology in general
yes OP, barrels back then had way more rivets.
>>222107462URGE TO COLONIZE RISING!
>>222107462Nobody cares. More Chel
>>222109048You have to realize Apocalypto is showing the society from the point of view of a war slave being dragged to sacrifice. I think that was pretty clear and from what we know that part is pretty accurate, regardless of the culture, for some reason the majority of major pre-Columbian civilizations practiced a brutal, culturally pervasive, and efficient form of human sacrifice. If you were on the wrong end of a war party, it's hard to argue your experience would differ much from what the movie showed.
>>222107462I'd chronically anal her, if that's what you're asking
>we're given no information about her whatsoever
>>222109615not the mesoautist, but i do know deity impersonation was an important aspect of a lot of these human sacrificing rituals, which could make it into a better deal than you'd expect. Captives that had the right qualities for this would get adopted into a family and have all of his expenses paid for by them. He'd get to go around town performing rituals and shit and generally be treated as the living incarnation as whatever deity he's impersonating, which would be pretty comfy. He'd even get his own wifes impersonating the deities wives in certain cases. Of course, he's still a prisoner and he's still going to have his heart ripped out by the end of it, but the ride there could be pretty sweet.
>>222107462I would make her let out such screams as you wouldn't believe.
>>222108888oh, hello mayautistdo you just search the whole site for SA native related threads?
>>222107462The urge to be colonized is strong with this one.
>>222110685That would be for the insider though, like the Mayan virgin girls, the only outsiders would be vanquished heros I think, so basically enemy kings, generals or warriors who did some serious ass kicking.
>>222109196Cont>>222109615Well, it goes further then that, in that it's not just showing the point of view of a war captive, but it's also trying to show a city in a state of collapse, where it's presumably increasing the scale of monument construction and sacrifices in a unsustainable way and they're having moral decay and decline alongside that social collapse, which is kind of the whole theme/message of the movieBut even with both of those things (it following the pov of a captive, and it being a city in a state of collapse) being the case, what Apocalypto shows is still unreasonableFor starters, the fact that the village was targeted and razed to begin with is odd. City-states were generally not raiding other cities, towns, villages etc just for captives, conflicts were usually over actual political, economic etc factors. In the movie there wasn't any apparent attempt by diplomats to pressure the village into becoming a tax paying subject or anything like that, which would be typica, they went from 0 to 100Hansen, the film's consultant does bring up in his paper about his choices for the film that we do have some documentation of slave raids not targeting other resources or political considerations, but it probably wasn't common. Even the Mexica of the Aztec capital, who almost certainly did the most sacrifices of anybody, were really focused on getting long term tax paying subject states, rather then just invading places to drag people off, and tended to limit razing to where it was warranted as an act of escalation(pic related from Bigredhair's Aztec empire webcomic demonstrates both points: Xicomecoatl, the king of Cempoala, disobeying Moctezuma II's orders led to an increase in tax demands, not sacking the city, though the Totonac of Cempoala allege that their demands included captives, which if true is also unusual, Mexica demands of captives as taxes are rare, there's reason to think the Cempoalans may have been giving a sob story)4/?
>>222112200Lol I don't know what spic revisionist you're getting your propaganda from (not like it matters, if they're from Mexico they're all the same), but you are way off the mark on this one. Raiding, enslaving, and sacrificing satellite tribes was a well documented and common occurrence throughout the americas. If they could put up a real fight then they were a competitor and would of course be dealt with politically, but that isn't what we are talking about here.
>>222109196>doesn't censor the lolis
>>222107942tbf el dorado would go hard in kingdom hearts
>>222109048>sacrifice as just something Tzekal-kan is pushing on the rest of the city without them liking it.By far the least realistic part. It worked for the story but there was never a society that openly practiced human sacrifice without the consent of the broad public.
>>222110218what do you mean?
>>222108888>>222109048>>222109196>>222112200
>>222115080extremely based
>>222115409ai slop?
>>222110218All I need to know about her is that her ass is fat and she gets on her knees for White men.
>>222107942whomst
>>222107942they couldn't get a whiter model?
>>222115080>not enjoying learning things
Were you there? Fuck off
>>222109048Why do third worlders like looking at boobs? This is disgusting. Just make women wear shirts. I don’t care how hot it is
>>222107462My crushes as a kid and a teenager were Chel, Kida and Pocahontas.
>>222109196Niggas had that shit on
>>222107942Not Disney. This was a Dreamworks movie.
>>222107462She canonically gives the mc a blowjob
>>222109048First is way hotter and I say this as someone who likes tits more than ass. The main appeal of Chel is her hips and the second dress hides them.
>Isn't this a bit anachronistic for 1519?It's meant to be "ANACONDISTIC", as in "evoking the anaconda", as in "my dick"
>>222107462Her lips are disgusting.
>>222108888Pretty sure they meant the portrayal of pok-a-tok.
>fags whining about "authenticity" and "anachronism" from a society that didn't keep a written language or historical record of anythingI promise you aren't as correct as you think you are either, there's just nothing to say otherwise
>>222112200>>222109615Cont:Ironically enough I think it may actually be warranted for the Maya to do MORE slave-raids or razing then the Mexica for that reason that the Mexica seem to have been so driven by economic resources in their expansionism, and in that we know the Classic Maya did a decent amount of total warfare (though desu I'm not really sure exactly how it compares to the amount the Mexica did, my impression is the Maya did it more)Next, some of the stuff you see happen in the movie is just entirely made up: Using the ballcourt as a human shooting range, for instance, which is particularly dumb because there IS some evidence that (at least the Classic) Maya may have forced captives into gladiatorial ballgame and/or boxing matches (picas a sort of bloodsports, AND there is a real form of sacrifice that involved shooting people with arrows (though I'm unsure if the Late Postclassic northern Maya specifically did it). Either of those things would have been less dumb and still accomplished a similar thing in context, though it still would have been silly to do it right after the heart extraction sacrifice ceremony (and that endless string of horrifying or creepy events all in a row that the movie shows is indeed a big part of the problem, but I'll get back to that) The sadism involved in that sequence is and to a lesser extent across the movie is also a big part of the problem. As I noted in >>222109048, sacrifice was a part of a broader theology, with an rules and rites for how it happened (as >>222110685 notes, for example, the main victims of Aztec sacrifices were esteemed, well treated, and had a dizzying amounts of requirements to be selected and specific ritualistic tasks they had to do prior to being sacrificed) was overseen by an educated priesthood, there associated moral and ethical philosophies, cosmologies, etc (at least, the Aztec had these, I'd assume the Maya did too):5/?
>>222119121Homo
>>222107942Fuck. I really need to fix my VR headset.
>>222108888>>222109048>>222109196None of this looks better than the movie version
>>222108888>>222109048>>222109196>tl/dr: I wanna see Chels animated tits bouncing around (as do we all)
>>222119992>dizzying amounts of requirements to be selectedHow so you imply they were very discerning while also sacrificing hundreds of thousands of people in less than a year. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I get the impression that only a small minority of sacrifices received the "God Larp" treatment, and even then, it probably wasn't actually all that benevolent
>>222109615The problem is that virtually every single society in the region practiced human sacrifice. If you were an individual growing up in one, there would be zero chance of you not being familiar with it, and your own community expected you to face your fate with dignity in case you ever found yourself on the receiving end of a sacrificial ritual, since sacrifice was an integral part of their worldview and the people about to sacrifice you ultimately worshipped the same gods you did. A realistic Jaguar Paw wouldn't really struggle or try to do anything against it until the very end, when human self-preservation instinct may trump cultural indoctrination.What Mel Gibson did in Apocalypto was create an entirely fictitious tribe of innocents who would struggle against the evil sacrificers, despite the fact that was an entirely alien mindset for the entire indigenous population of the region; Jaguar Paw's tribe is effectively a self-insert for modern day westerners.
>>222120971 (me)>What Mel Gibson did in Apocalypto was create an entirely fictitious tribe of innocents who would struggle against the evil sacrificers, despite the fact that was an entirely alien mindset for the entire indigenous population of the region; Jaguar Paw's tribe is effectively a self-insert for modern day westerners.Not that there's anything wrong with it of course you gotta have a story, and someone your audience can sympathize withStill not accurate in the slightest tho
>>222120971There's not a single recorded instance of a tribe or polity rejecting the contemporary cultural mores around them? Seems common in the rest of the pre-Modern world
>>222108888>>222109048>>222109196>>222119992thank you /his/ chad.
>>222119374rhere's actually a thread about it on /his/ right now and the main takeaway from it is that the aztecs invented sports betting>>>/his/18601942
>>222119015proof?
>>222109680i would start giving her anal and then presumably i would stop eventually. chronological anal
>>222121260 I read about there existing a few tribes in the norther periphery of the region that didn't do it, though that could be just due to them living in a remote area away from most of the culturally influential people rather than conscious rejection.The most famous claims of actual rejection are the myths of Nezahualcoyotl and Quetzalcoatl. Nezahualcoyotl was a king of Tetzcoco, one of the 3 city-states that got together to form the the Aztec Empire, so he was basically one of the Aztec founding fathers. One of his descendants switched over to Cortez' side during the conquest, who then helped him conquer Tetzcoco and bring the whole city to the Spanish side. In the early colonial period, his family made the claim that their ancestor rejected human sacrifice and worshipped a distant secret god of everything not so subtly implied to be the Christian God. This claim is dubious, as no other source describes Nezahualcoyotl like that and it is a very clear attempt at gaining favor from Spanish authorities by claiming that they wuz alwayz christianz n shiet. And also, even if it was true, Nezahualcoyotl was said to have only rejected sacrifice at an individual level, he didn't ban the practice in his city nor stop his allies from doing it.The Quetzalcoatl myth is the claim that the mythical and maybe semi-historical king Ce Acatl Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl, and the deity Ehecatl-Quetzalcoatl with whom he was closely associated, looked down upon human sacrifice. We know this isn't really true for the deity Quetzalcoatl, who was a patron of the priesthood and was said to have practiced ritual bloodletting in mythology. As for the King Quetzalcoatl, it may have been a genuine pre-columbian belief, but if so, it may have had the exact opposite purpose most westerners assume it did, as Ce Acatl Topiltzin lost his kingdom right after stopping the sacrifices, which means the moral of the story was actually "sacrifices are le good. if you stop them god will kill you."
>mesoamericanon in the threadfucking autist, love your postskeep it up
>>222112200What's the source for that comic? Also is that you Mesoanon?
>>222108888Checked pelaná
>>222109048Mentally ill
>>222107462Are they supposed to be Mayans or just inspired by Mayans? Because El Dorado was supposed to be in South America, where Mayans aren't.
>>222107462Xochitl was born for this role
This is a Chel thread. POST CHEL YOU FUCKER!
>>222108922How does Chel subverts whiteness
>>222116678If you have to ask, it's not slop, Bubba.
>>222107462you have no idea
>>222124035She causes an inescapable urge to race mix.
>>222109048Based and respectable history chad, but I still like the emphasis her clothes gave to her hips more
>>222108888Chell is a tomboy then
>>222124421True No wonder modern Mexico exists
>>222121779Thanks for the interesting insights
>>222108888>did poke around the Yucatan Peninsula a bit and get into conflicts and trade with various Maya groups prior to his expedition moving into Central MexicoI didn't know that, cool!
>>222108888So her outfit is forbidden and therefore extra lewd, got it
>>222107462Why is her every movement so alluring? Fucking cock tease.
>>222108888>not showing off her thighs and bellyNo wonder they didn't go with those shit designs.
>>222108888>>222109048>>222109196>>222112200>>222119992Kino posts, thanks.
>>222107462what race is she supposed to be?
>>222125436Cortez is there so some type of indigenous Mexican, probably Mayan or Aztec.
>>222123745>>222125518Chel is named after the Mayan goddess of the moon and fertility, so the city in the movie is just kinda generic Mesoamerican but skewed towards the Maya in particular
>>222107462Made for modern day Mexican cock
>>222123745random mish-mash of Mesoamerican and Andean aesthetics. They aren't supposed to be anything other than vaguely Pre-Columbian.
>>222107462Chel, Pocahontas, and Kida completely ruined me as a child
>>222125436Mayan
>>222107462As a spaniard I am OWED a Chel gf
Would Chel be hotter if she were amazon?
>>222126396No
>>222107942>>222117021Beca Barbiehttps://gofile.io/d/R2Xr8s
>>222126088So literally impossible to be anachronistic.
>>222118322>>222126173
>>222120302this but unironically, during my last fapsesh my splooge shot the cable clear in half before putting a hole in my monitor and that was after it shoot clean through the tip of my cumsockpeople always think having superpowers in real life would be cool beans but it's absolutely vexatious for mundane living
>>222127008...Hancock? You're real??
>>222119121shit taste
Chel looks so fucking delicious.Can't stand it.
Just cast her already
Would this be more realistic in 2026?
>>222107973what do indians have to do with atlantis
>>222128375She didn't attend the new spider man movie premiere. It's so mega giga uber kamehameha over
>>222129487based on the leaks she doesn't even show up in the doomsday movie but gets completely erased too/
>>222108888>>222109048>>222109196>>222112200>>222119992How’d you like Emperor’s New Groove?
>>222109196Rolling
>>222129834Man that's genuinely fucked up. She seemed so happy and optimistic about her character last year when asked about it.Reminds me of that cowboy bebop girl that learned the show was cancelled on her bday.
>>222108888>>222109048>>222109196>>222112200>>222119992
>>222130306Emperor's New Groove takes place in the Inca Empire, which was an Andean NOT Mesoamerican civilization, and is thus beyond his area of expertise
>>222130306not that anon but Emperor's New Groove is based on Andeans not Mesoamericans. Also a fascinating people
>>222130959Kuzco's song says Mesoamerican
>>222131068They're Andean bro, Kuzco even shares a name with the Inca capital city
>>222119992>>222112200>>222109196>>222109048Based turbo autist
>>222130959how to get tlaxcalteca gf
>>222131913just be yourself
>>222107691based
Shrek is much better
>>222133948>cgi shit
This guy is boring. Miguel is the one that you end up caring for, not him
>>222134535He's okay
>>222134535you've got to have the 'straight man' in a comedy duo, one needs to be more boring
>>222134535Yet he got the girl. Too bad we didn't get a second movie where Miguel finds his own native gf.
>>222118385more color in those 3 outfits then all of apocalypto's runtime combined desu
>>222119121agreed
>>222108888lol i thought you only posted on /his/ never considered you use the rest of the site. was gonna say /tv/ isnt ready for your infodumps but it seems we have some meso connoisseurs in the thread
>>222118090I was, in fact
>>222125436El Doradoan. It's make believe.
>>222108888Based Mesoamerican autist
>>222118322A man of great taste.
>>222131199That's a big rock
>>222107462God damn she’s so fucking hot. Pure sex
>>222119121You’re an actual faggot. Go kiss a man homo
Meso history anon here, I am behind replying to shit, I want to finish replying to the anons I was infodumping to and get to other questions people had, but I have barely slept for 3 days, so someone else may have to keep the thread bumped over the next 6-8 hours while I sleep
>>222140362You do good work you deserve a cacao
>>222108888What would Chel's favorite types of tacos be?
>>222130481She cute
>>222141334iguana
>>222123780GR8 B8 M8! I R8 8/8
>>222140362good night, anon. Thanks for the cool posts
>>222140362Clearly, meso anon needs more of the traditional coca leaf to keep up with our retardation.>>222140419A chcoolate?
>>222140362Hi Mesoanon. I brought up pic related in another thread(I think it was on /his/?), just letting you know it's pretty good so far. Some stuff obviously doesn't translate well like a poem about the Nahuatl language itself, but a lot of it is more focused on emotion than wordplay, and it does great job of conveying his malaise, feelings about war, art, nature and the gods, etc, and most significantly and what I was most hoping to see, that Mesoamerican mindset of a cyclical, repeating universe and his feelings about how so much of what he's done will eventually be undone/redone.It's also not very long, you could probably finish it in an afternoon, but I'm experiencing it in small pieces because it's poetry.
>>222141334ground turkey with a torturous amount of spices, served with a mug of hot cocoa
