What prevents superman films drawing the numbers that Spider-Man and Batman doIs he not big 3 material?
>>222359175At its best, DC is more like an opera than an action film. It’s got action, but it’s more about big concepts. It’s harder to write. MCU is very gritty and street level, so as long as the dialogue and action are solid you can pump out movies. This is especially true for Superman, who is functionally unstoppable. Snyder tried by being overly grim, Gunn tried but went way too far in the opposite direction. DC needs to stick to genre films for a while I think. Superman dramas, Batman noires, green lantern buddy cops, flash sci-fi, teen titans coming of age, etc etc.
Superman is for when America feels good about itself. We can't really do that right now because of the whole pedo president starting WWIII as a cover-up thing.
>>222359175Zack Snyder's darker, grittier Superman could do it. People are just not interested in the "bright happy Superman" thing.
James Gunn
>>222359175Superman been so poorly mishandled for decades there is just no recovering at this point.
>>222359324Right, because Spider Man is really dark ans gritty
>>222359175I just don't like this superman. Snyder superman was the best. I literally had 0 interest in pre snyder superman movies because the costume felt too goofy. Snyder perfected superman. Superman should feel like a gloomy god not a quirky redditor who gets upset about what people say
>>222359324bzzzzzt WRONG. Snyder understood Superman needs gravity, but his treatment was so retarded and depressing. >>222359349DCU needs a 5 year hiatus minimum, and then a total rebuild from scratch.
Superman has shit villians. Outside of Luthor, Brainiac and Zod, Superman villain are absolute trash.He only has his top spot because he's the basis of modern superheroes but he will never make Spider-man or Batman level numbers because of his horrible rouge gallery.
>>222359175It's always the creative team behind Superman films. Singer's Superman Returns is pretty underrated but criticism that it lacked action is valid. Snyder's Superman was too grey, too moody and lacked that feeling most successful comic book movies have (they feel like comic book adaptation movies, not the generic kind, they feel like a comic book movie in a positive way). It lacked the sunshine, the pop of color, the atmosphere of what makes Superman enjoyable in the comics. Gunn's Superman was lackluster because Gunn is too high on himself. Gunn just can't help himself. The creative teams behind these movies ALWAYS let the source material down.
>>222359175>What prevents superman films drawing the numbers that Spider-Man and Batman doThe scripts, the marketing, the casting.
Clark Kent is asscheeks, nobody likes him
Superman (2025) was a fucking disappointing movie>The thing advertised in all the trailers and what the plot implies will happen is that Superman will save-not Palestine from not-Israel>It's the fucking comic relief characters who end up doing it at the last minute >Also, almost nobody dies in this movie. The Pajeet street seller is the only civilian casualty of the entire movie in fact
>>222359371One reason Spider-man works so well is because he can do dark and moody and he can do bright and colorful. He can do street level stories and he can do magic and space stories. He has super strength and powers but they aren't Superman/Thor level (I know someone is going to quote some obscure feat he performed, you know what i mean though) and that adds a feeling of vulnerability to his heroic efforts. Spider-man and Batman are the best superheroes. I love Superman but he has been mismanaged. Superman could be that level but the company behind him has let him down. Iron Man could be Spider-man and Batman level but Disney/Marvel have let him down. I understand the MCU movies and RDJ elevated Iron Man to top tier status, but they still haven't done enough to solidify Iron Man to Spider/Bat levels and he could be there; a great game, more consistency in great comics, and a legitimate plan for more Tony Stark/Iron Man live action material beyond RDJ's take on the character.
>>222359175The trailer really looked nothing special
>>222359565>>Also, almost nobody dies in this movie.Yeah Superman actually did his job unlike in the Snyderverse where he just stands in a room and lets a bomb kill everyone
WB/PARAMOUNT/DC HAS LEARNED NOTHINGhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnZwcDjoFw8
Sounds gay and memeish but people just dont connect with superman. Marvel's characters are all written from a relatable human perspective. They are all still superheros but the stories have grounded man vs himself conflict to them. Spiderman is a teen and has the issues of a poor college kid. Wolverine is all kinds of fucked up, his stories are kind of like and addict's parable on road to recovery that never really comes. Iron man is a sick alcoholic. Hulk is dude who's rage transforms him, gets him in trouble and ruins his life. The xmen are anyone thats ever felt out of place in the world. I think you get the point. In DC the only character people relate to is batman and his rogues. His whole story is a metaphor for loss, grief and the power to turn something horrible that happened to you into a motivator for good. His villians are the opposite hence why chuds and edgelords love joker.
>>222359424My one true gripe about TAS was that the baddie in every other fucking episode was Metallo. Such a boring villain
>>222359175Donner Superman is the gold standard. You can say, it wouldn't work because modern day America is much more cynical, but there are some stuff that sells Superman>Superman saves a lot of people. In the second act Superman flies around the world saving thousands from natural disasters, train wrecks, plane crashes. Modern Superman just has him fight in cities and he fails to save anyone from falling debris, crashing aircraft etc>Romantic tension with Lois Lane because of his secret identity. Modern Lois Lanes immediately discover his secret identity>Artistic color palette makes scenery shots of America look beautiful
>>222359472This. A superman movie like the first Reeves movie would make billions
>>222359756Honestly, my journey as a DC fan began with the DCAU cartoons in the 2000s, then Smallville, and eventually I made the jump to reading the actual comics. I loved Superman as a character, and I mostly still do, but over time reading the comics you realize he’s the most overhyped character in all of DC. His so-called flaws aren’t really flaws, because DC editorial and fanboy writers seem unwilling to give him an actual personality. When they explore his flaws,it is usually something like “he cares too much about people,” which isn’t a flaw at all, just another way to make him look more compassionate and admirable. Or they take the few questionable aspects, like the double identity and constant lying, and spin them into virtues. I remember a comic that really annoyed me, where Lois says she fell harder for Superman after learning he was Clark, because instead of dreaming about being rich or important, Superman dreams of being just a regular nice guy. Come on. Not even explore how mad she got? How betrayed she felt? And often, editors and writers will throw other characters under the bus to make Superman look good, portraying them as unreasonable jerks or helpless incompetents just to justify him being the better person or hero.So the more i read about the character, over time, the less i started to like him. Not because of the character himself, but because of how he is handled.
Apologizehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tU0vG9UJ2I
>>222359175>What prevents superman films drawing the numbers that Spider-Man and Batman doYou know the answer....
>>222359175The fact that they're too dumb to get the tone of Superman right. Snyder was too far on one end of the spectrum and Gunn is too far on the other end. The 90s cartoon was just right, I've been saying for 20 years they should just literally film a live action version of that.
>>222360068Gunn has to go. Karma for Cavill being tossed aside after the set up for him to return. Gunn was given a fair shot. His Superman movie was too much of a mixed bag. Supergirl bombed on historic levels. Wrap this up as a trilogy with Man of Tomorrow and let's move on.
>>222360192Right. The 90s animated series proves you can absolutely still have a great Superman. It's all about tone and atmosphere. This is the blueprint.
>>222360192I remember that the annoying Superman fanboys on the internet used to hate this cartoon and the creators because to them Superman was too weak, too flawed, Lois was too slutty, and he should be banging Wonder Woman or something
Make it a comedy with some romance, fixed
>>222359324Good morning sir!
>>22236036990s kid here, that cartoon was mid. Batman TAS, spiderman, X-Men and freakazoid were the gold standard of 90s super hero cartoons
>>222360482No way. 90s/Bruce Timmverse Superman has aged better than the 90s X-men cartoon.
>>222359175>that Spider-Man and Batman doThe last Batman film drew a mere $700 million, that's easily within Superman's ability.Neither of them are even worth mentioning in the same breath as Spider-Man, who's last two movies outgrossed the Nolanbats films IN THE FIRST WEEK.
>>222360574>Timmverse SupermanWas boring shit, unless you were a Superfag like yourself.
>>222359383If you honestly think man of steel was a depressing movie you probably menstruate
>>222360574X-Men is gold and is memeable beyond belief while superman was boring and forgotten, it was Batman TAS lame little brother
>>222360647It made a few feeble attempts to be "uplifting" like Superman Returns, but it was constantly sabotaging itself tonally. And "Stop Invincible Son" remains one of the most inexplicably stupid scenes in all of cape movie history.
>>222360647It was so bad it was funny actually
>>222359175Superman is a jewish power fantasy near-invincible goody two shoes alien, so he's harder to relate to for the average person than Spider-Man and even Batman. That's why Spider-Man and Batman are more popular than him. That said, Superman is still one of the Big Three along with Spider-Man and Batman because of his historical significance as one of the first superheroes ever created.
>>222359602Happens constantly in the comics & even the cartoons which mog your faggot self insert
Jewfactor imo
>>222359175There's a ceiling on Superman films because there's a portion of the male audience who finds the character to be homosexual.
>>222360647It feels like a drab science fiction film. It doesn't feel like a super hero movie. It's not a bad movie. In some areas it's quite good. But it's not a great movie. It's no Raimi Spider-man 1 or 2 or Iron Man or any of the other great super hero films.
>>222359602>>222360702The WORST thing about Man of Autism is how he's constantly seeking permission from others to do the right thing. His Pa, His Mom, Lois, some random priest. All the way through JUSTice League, Superman has to get some emotional reassurance that he should go do Superman shit. He's fucking 32 after his origin backstory in Man of Steel, for Christ's sake!
>>222360740>t doesn't feel like a super hero movie.Most superhero movie are fucking awful action comedies, though.
Now Sanjeet here is resorting to denigrating the entire genre to fellate Snyder's 3rd rate trash.
>>222360755>Superman has to get some emotional reassurance that he should go do Superman shit. He's fucking 32Reminder that Superman in MoS is a better hero because he spent his entire adulthood saving random people, meanwhile Reeves' Superman spent his adulthood locked inside the Fortress of Solitude "training" and only started to save people during the movie.
>>222360702There’s a subgroup of Superman fans that literally want the character to be perfect & never lose/suffer setback in the way of civilians being killed or the city getting decimated. I’ve maintained for years the biggest problem with Superman is the fanbase itself. They’re hyper autistic about his flawlessness.
>>222360755>>222360789Cavill Superman also saved more people on screen.If you were to compare, Cavill Superman saved more people and for longer time.
>>222360789That doesn't even make sense. Man of Autism Clark only saved the bus HE WAS IN as a youth, and just stood there and let his father croak.Both were full grown men before they started in with acts of heroism.
>>222359577Funny because the mode successful anything Superman in last 30 years was Smallville where Clark Kent acted like Peter Parker
>>222360825What a wall of retarded bullshit. You should be ashamed of this crap Sanjeet.
>>222360842Cavill Superman saved people before putting on the costume, while growing up and traveling the world.Reeves Supes did nothing. He spent decades inside the Fortress being taught by Marlon Brando. He only started saving people after he got the costume.
>>222360683It’s a Superman origin in the style of a first contact sci-fi film. Tonally it’s very consistent & not anywhere near as gloomy as detractors pretend it is. It’s just not a typical depiction of the character.
>>222359175they mismanaged the brand with too many superman shows.they made him too powerful over time. james gunn put political shit like ICE in the movie and created bad word of mouth.superman is truth, justice, and the American way. if people don’t believe in those things then they don’t want to see superman.
>>222360875Those rescues Lois were using to track him were all recent, he wasn't running around right after letting his own parent die for reason doing rescues. He only saves Lois the first time because she gets hurt while he's doing crime, like he did at the bar.
>>222360920>Those rescues Lois were using to track him were all recentNo, they weren't. The movie makes it obvious he spent his entire life saving people to his own detriment before ever putting on a costume. With no need to adulation or a thank you.
>>222360887>It’s a Superman origin in the style of a first contact sci-fi filmIt's a trash first contact film, they play up early that the reveal of Aliens is going to be this big momentous event that shakes everyone to the core, and then Zod shows up and everyone in the city is basically "meh".It's a morass of stupid plot developments, which gets even dumber in the sequel when they put BATMAN at the scene of the whole thing, doing absolutely nothing.It's not Serious, it's Stupid.
>>222360962You're stupid.
he's a boring character
>>222359175His powers look weird in live-action.
>>222359383they need to fire james gunn and put matt reeves in charge
>Superman drags Zod to the only populated area nearby to fight himThe Reverse-Goku, super dumb.>Jonathan, who's clearly paranoid about his son's alien identity, not only sends a sick alien kid to public school, he sends pieces of his ship to the local University for analysis.>They tell him it's clearly of alien manufacture, AND NEVER FOLLOW UP!Mega-dumb movie for dumb people.
>>222359175he's too punk rock
>>222361022It's true, he gets into bloodless slug-fests with other Supermen, or it's "Oh NOES my magic green rocks", otherwise he's invincible and infallible.
>>222361025Not weird just seeing Superman fly isn’t thrilling anymore. Not like in Reeves “you will believe a man cab sly.” It’s one easiest FX now to do. Nowhere near as cool as web slinging between buildings
>>222359304I'm trans btw if that matters
>>222361098Only terminally online schizos and girl athletes give a single fuck about transexuals.And I doubt you are particularly athletic OR female.
>>222360849He catches bad guys in spider webs and climbs up walls?
>>222359175Next time don't put a jew larping as superman.
>>222361032>Mega-dumb movie for dumb people.>Couldn't parse why Zod was in the city or how he got thereHe was overseeing the terraforming effort from that half of the world engine. He was already in Metropolis and Superman came there and found him there after the fact when he showed up to destroy that half of it after he blew up the half in the Indian Ocean. You're right, there are some mega-dumb people posting in this thread right now.
>>222361022>>222361068Reminded me if thishttps://youtu.be/Y21sm5xB4vk?si=VsgYagLorlXKwm2J&t=10
>>222359948not reading all that
Superman is fucking boring lol, he has always been boring
>>222361187>Couldn't parse why Zod was in the cityI'm not talking about the city, dumbfuck.I'm talking about yoinking him off Mommy's farm, dragging his face through miles of empty crops, then depositing him in Smallville for the ebin fight with extra destructin'.
>>222361129I said acts like Peter Parker not Spider Man. Whole high school teen angst. The whole “can’t tell MJ/Lana muh secret identity” which causes a bunch drama. Even Clark’s powers are scaled down
>>222359175He's the company version of a nepobaby, basically. He's around cause of his prestige/legacy, but no one's really given a shit about him in decades. When I was a kid we liked Spidey, Batman and Wolverine the most. Nobody gave a shit about Superman.
>>222361317DC Comics has an entire bus-full of irrelevant, boring, long-tenured heroes who by characterization might as well be the same dude who just changes costumes or uses a Dial to get different powers. Not a one of them is worth a movie based on their decades of comics, someone has to come in and write them a personality for a movie.They made Barry Allen a nebbish twink just to give him SOME SORT of personality.
>>222359175blue boy scout is boring. vast majority of his stories are also boring. it is nigh impossible to identify with him since he is whatever magic thing the writers want to progress the plot. whereas almost anyone can identify in some small way how peter is a struggling loser.
>>222361282>missing the subtext regarding the offshoring of manufacturing jobs and the fall of retail giants like Sears this hardWhat exactly do you think Zod is supposed to represent in the story you dunce? You can not be for real right now.
>>222359175Big 3 you say? I have thoughts.
Writing an interesting Superman movie is easy, you just have to give him a thought-provoking moral problem that he needs to solve with brains and diplomacy and so on.Gunn is a retarded hack who just had him giving non-lethal punches to faceless goons and saving heckin squirrels all movie instead of anything requiring thought.
>>222361370> They made Barry Allen a nebbish twink just to give him SOME SORT of personality.Wally West has personality but DC hates Wally and will go as far we have Barry ripping Wally off
>>222359175that's a kike, my dude.
>>222361377Even in the Superman Animated series Timm did, it was shocking how boring his villains were compared to Batman's, not that they use very many of them.Brainiac and Darkseid are barely even one-dimensional characters. Myxyzptlk is just an unfunny 50's toon. All of the Evil Supermen are just flying jerks and nothing more. The rest are mostly "I have KRYPTONITE!" or weak, inexplicably threatening characters like Toyman.
>>222361441>DarkseidNever could take this guy all that seriously. Making him the end all be all villain of DC was a mistake.
>>222361441Timm had the hottest cartoon women that was ever put on television, that's what he had going for the show. Livewire and Volcana, holy fucking shit dude.
>>222361408I've read Wally West Flash comics, like too many shitty DC legacy characters he's mostly just "OK, I AM NOT [Character I am Legacy Of!] with youthful "attitude". Which is stupid when they are dressing almost exactly like the guy they are desperate not to be mistaken for/held up against for comparison.They are all just different trash.
>>222361492The bigger mistake was how overused he was, as if no one could come up with a better cosmic threat. Then again, looking at shit like Mordru and Time Trapper, maybe they couldn't.
>>222361501The art standard for the Superman show was NOT what it was for the Batman show, let alone anywhere near Timm's stylized pin-ups. This is just 10 yr old you thinking.
>>222361549counter point
>>222361549And I mean REALLY substandard. BtAS got away with a lot on stylized crazy people, dark shadows and atmosphere, StAS just looked cheap most of the time.
>>222361636it has it's moments. what else was on tv at the time that was better? aeon flux?
>>222361578I don't have nostalgia glasses thick enough to think that's great looking, and I was substantially older than you when it aired.
>>222361532I remember I liked Mongul in the Justice League cartoon. He essentially fills the same niche but with more personality and a less self-serious tone.
>>222361684name something better that was on tv at the same time you pedantic fuck i'm probably just as old as you are
>>222361669American animation at that point was mostly still trying to sell product and/or cheap. But by the mid-90's everyone was familiar with Anime, and StAS does not hold up against anything but the cheapest Japanese animation. I OWN StAS, (and a lot of anime). Even old stuff like Battle of the Planet/G-Force/Gatchaman shit all over it.
>>222361710Gargoyles off the top of my head.
>>222361775>here is a bunch of shit that wasn't on american television at the time>>222361839>the lady cop and demona anywhere near as good looking as roxy, volcana, livewire
>>222361710X-Men as well. Which is not saying that X-Men was better animated (they were about equal), but X-Men has better stories than StAS. Gargoyles was better for both.
>>222359383> DCU needs a 5 year hiatus minimum, and then a total rebuild from scratch.This. I’d reboot Smallville into a movie.
>>222361896>Timm had the hottest cartoon women that was ever put on television, that's what he had going for the show.
>>222359175Superman requires a levity that Hollywood isn’t smart enough to write. He needs a literal cosmic threat to show off his power. Him operating on the street doesn’t hold any weight and would render the rest of the DCU heroes pointless. Superman should only be seldom seen by civilians.
>>222362022Astro City did a better "Superman" than DC comics have done in ages, and Invincible did a more contemporary take.Classic DC Superman just isn't a terribly interesting character for films, and re-filming the same 3 plots repeatedly doesn't help.
>>222360068>Wonder WomanNow do it again for Wonder Woman 1984.
>>222360068The only DCEU movies that performed to or above expectations, were not directed by Zack.He was just the Producer, meaning he greenlit them.
>>222360369>Superman was too weakThey did nerf him for STAS, but I think it looks worse when you consider just how insanely powerful Superman had become in the comics.It's like in The Batman (movie), when Batman fucks up with the riddles because he doesn't know what a tucker is. It seems so much worse now that we're used to the comic Batman that knows everything.That said I did appreciate that they did a soft-retcon in Justice League with Superman's whole "living in a world of cardboard" monologue. Having a nerfed Superman in STAS is worth it for that monologue alone.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_5UwS57X8I also kinda dig Superman being weak against electricity, not because it hurts him, just because the voltage causes his muscles to lock up. It makes Livewire feel like more of a threat.
>>222361282>DURR WHY IS A SUPERHERO THAT ISNT A SUPERHERO YET DOING THINGS SLOPPILY Another superfag that on day zero wanted him saving everybody miraculously, you’re why the character has no relevancy in film beside those old fuck Reeves movies 100 years ago.
>>222361382NTA but fuck off with that shit. It's product placement and destruction for the sake of trying to make the fight more exciting. It is not some deep metaphor for economic struggle.
>>222360192This fucker.and that one SunsetRiders7 comic.
It's crazy how synders fans have permanently ruined talking about dc movies
>>222362155Who could be in charge of the studio without touching the movies? Bruce Timm? Kevin Smith 30 years ago? .....
He's not big 3, in fact there's no big 3. Just big 2, Batman and Spider-Man, that's it.
Best Superman and Clark since Reeve. Best Lois hands down.
>>222362297I like how even in that clip, Superman had to be saved by Batman, who somehow was able to attack Darkseid without getting instantly killed
>>222359175While he’s certainly harder to tap than Spiderman and Batman (who are easy self inserts) let’s not pretend Superman 2025 wasn’t far off hitting its potential and the character is just unlucky. The script was rough, the message was vague and contradictory, the costumes sucked, the cgi and cinematography were incredibly mediocre. I think Snyder/Nolan hit it best with Man of Steel for the modern era. You just can’t do Marvel quip comedy with this franchise. DC as a whole thrives off of epic and mysticism. It’s infamous products are the dark serious stuff. Just look at Absolute right now. Superman deserves that pseudo intellectual larger than life concept while periodically striking the small scale gentleness he’s known for.
Superman is supposed to be a super intelligent, stoic god with unshakeable confidence and moral resolve. Making him a cuck fighting a clone of himself is retarded. He should have galactic level threats and be doing huge feats of strength. It's also retarded that they just don't use the other JL members to support him. We don't need the origin stories of everyone first.
Because he is Jewish his story is the same as Moses Superman is seen as a patriotic American hero and in the Trump era thats problematic this Superman is Pro MAGA because Paramount owns DC Superman has always been a fucking faggot its always made me laugh how Americans made this ridiculous character seem like he could defeat Goku Superman is Jewish propaganda its the story of a Jew who becomes American
>>222362626Yeah, but Batman is just a bro like that.
>>222359175superman is an alien, therefore he's not as relatable.superman doesn't wear a mask so he's even less relatable to non-white people
>>222362706Your point might be more convincing if you used punctuation, rather than writing one long run-on sentence like a retard.Also fuck off with the Goku vs Superman bullshit.
>>222362684He's not supposed to be super intelligent tho
>>222362679Wow, a sensible post in this entire thread, props to you
>>222359175He's lame. Zoomer's superman is marvel's Thor
>>222359424Compared Spider-Man’s amazing villains like uhhh….,.. the bird guy and uhhhhh the rhino guy
>>222360702Okay, a homemade bomb made my terrorists that should easily be reactable with a guy that can fly into space within seconds vs a God that has laser beams and already said he’s leaving after losing, I wonder which one is easier to respond too. Oh right the retarded bomb one that needed to be explained as being covered in lead in FRAUDers shitty extended editions to cover up his garbage fucking writing
>>222359324>>222359304>>222359276>>222359175This movie "bombed" because Skybound aka Oracle basically created the whole Snyder vs Gunn Indian fan thing to make people not go to see the movie. Why? If the movie bombs then the studio is worth less, which means they get to give a lower bid for the eventual purchase of the studio. Its also why Supergirl got so much hate before a trailer even dropped.
>>222359565>save-not Palestine from not-IsraelRetard. He's saving Not-Afghanistan from Not-Russia commie dogs.
>>222359756Ah yes, Batman. The guy whose parents died when he was kid, has a fucking butler, and is the richest person in his city . I totally relate compare to the guy who was raised by poor people, is trying to fit into society and just wants to live a normal life working a decent job.
>>222363329>bomb made by terroristsLex made the bomb which you know already & are just trying to muddle as if it was some no name chump that bombed the capital >Covered up in extended editionsYou mean the original cut of the movie that WB made him cut? Why are you acting like he went back & put an explanation in?But none of that really matters to my point. Superman stories can & have had causalities in them. If anything it makes Gunn’s film look contrived to say how half the fucking city cracked in two & almost nobody died.
>>222359175It's hard to make a good movie about a man who only has one weakness.
>>222364711Complete fucking bullshit. One Punch Man is ultra popular and it is about a guy who is leagues above Superman.You just have to focus on people around him, how does his existence influence them and eorld and you put him in moral conundrums, to see how he deals with them and to test his morals.
I don't know a ton about superman comics, but as a casual fan, I hate it when Superman is depowered or captured.I don't need superman to struggle fighting strong villains to prove he's strong. I want superman to be morally tested, not physically tested. At least not in the first movie. You can build up to big world threatening enemies that no one else can deal with, but save that for later.I think a good Superman story should feel like a good episode of TNG.
They've been making him boring for decades because they don't understand the appeal. They sanded off all the rough edges because they think people want Superman to be a teddy bear. Superman is actually a neurotic guilt wracked weirdo with a God complex who lies to everyone he knows. There's a lot to unpack there if anyone really wanted to try.
>>222364859>Superman is actually a neurotic guilt wracked weirdo with a God complex who lies to everyone he knows. There's a lot to unpack there if anyone really wanted to try.You sound like you masturbate over Homolander.
>>222359175what prevents batman from doing the spider-man numbers?
>>222364898No, I'm someone who actually likes Superman. Some people want Superman to be an uncomplicated guy who's just happy and good, but that's not honest to the character. Superman is a complex character with psychological issues that inform his actions but no one seems interested in exploring that.
>>222359380Not to mention no huge cast of DEI side heroes serving as advertisements of spinoff movies.
>>222359175Supes stopped being Big 3 since the 90s.
>>222364952Doesn’t appeal to kids as much.
>>222359175As a basic comic interpretation, he is too simple of a character to market for a modern movie. Snyder was wise to try making him different in Man of Steel, it was intriguing enough at face value to pull an audience for a character that fundamentally isn't interesting. Unfortunately he is not that great at writing character depth, so it ended up being hollow.Snyder should have kept the scope small and slow to start out. Don't begin with him being god-tier, but rather a middling super strength, like Thor but a little weaker. Then build it up over the course of a couple Man of Steel movies rather than leaping straight into the cinematic universe stuff. I mean there was a very cool essence to seeing Superman as a wanderer concealing himself and catching glimpses at his childhood discovering his powers and the values he was raised upon. Snyder ought to have unfolded that as a bigger movie, or series of movies.. Explain his mid strength as the solar radiation taking a very long time to infuse into Superman's DNA, so he's just regular strong in late teens/early adult, but gradually becomes stronger.
>>222366690>As a basic comic interpretation, he is too simple of a character to market for a modern movie.You don't read comics, you clearly don't know shit about Superman.
>>222359175Constant reboots killed DC on film. WB needed to establish a franchise and stick with it. Fox X-Men had creative ups and downs but they didn't hard reset repeatedly, giving Deadpool 3 nostalgic value and $1b+. I guess making the Gunnverse a long term project is a step in the right direction, but launching the new universe by emasculating Superman in his own movie and a Jimmy Olsen and Gorilla Grodd show isn't going to lead to Brand New Day numbers after 10 years of audience investment
>>222364819One Punch Man was a comedy and only good for 1 arc, it shat the bed immediately after
Think they should look at the Raimi Spiderman movies. They showed Peter Parker going throughout his life, then he has to become Spidernan but you always see glimpses of his life. Like does Superman have an apartment or is he just going to the Fortress of Solitude and back to Metropolis? It's hard to ground him as a character even though he has a alter ego.
>>222367099>Like does Superman have an apartment or is he just going to the Fortress of Solitude and back to Metropolis?Clark Kent lives at 344 Clinton Street, Apartment 3-D. Part of why Man of Steel and the new movie were bad is neither of them cared enough about Clark Kent to make Superman feel like a whole character.
>>222360192The JLU remains the only DC media with good luthor. He is actually menacing and charismatic.
>>222359175Not a very reliable character.An alien with god like powers is hard to empathize wih already, and there's no fundamental conflict or struggle to him the audience can root for. Now some nerds will come and say ACTUALLY, but ask anyone why he does what he does and the answer you'll get is "he's a good guy", there's no real deal to him at his core.Take Batman instead. Parents killed in front of him, therefore he fights crime. Simple, clear and effective. Plus he's cool and a human being, so people would like to be with him and there's an infinitesimal chance you could as he has no superpowers.Spiderman instead has the best origins for any superhero ever (uncle died because of his hubris, he learnt to use his powers for good), has cool and fun powers but isn't perceived as overpowered, and is quite charismatic.I like superman but in terms of appeal to the general public he gets schooled hard by them.
>>222368754>Not a very reliable character.fuck, of course I meant relatable
>>222359175>Is he not big 3 material?
>>222359175>spiderman>batmanwhos the other?
>>222359349Death of superman for the silverscreen.
>>222359565the kaiju dies :(
>>222362109Exactly and Studio knows that's why last three movies were reboot. We never had a Superman sequel in 21st century.
>>222359795Metallo appears in like 4 episodes out 54. 6 If you want to count John Corben appearances before he's turned into Metallo. That 1 more than Bizarro (3) or Parasite (3)
>>222359175Batman himself can’t get to Spiderman number so only ask why can’t they get to Spiderman numbers
>>222359756Ah yes you can relate to a billionaire playboy with mental issues instead of a man raised by good parents trying to do the right thing despite the world ducking you over
>>222359324True, saar
>>222359175Bad casting for one
>>222359175>Oh NO LOOK AT ME I CAN FLY I'M THE STRONGEST DUDE IN THE WORLD, I CAN SHOOT LASERS OUT OF MY EYES AND BREATH ICE WHILE HAVING A HOT REPORTER GIRLFRIEND B-BUT PEOPLE DON'T LOVE ME BECAUSE IM ALIEN OOHHH BOOO HOOOO POOR ME I'M JUST AS GOOD GUY PLEASE PEOPLE SEE I'M A GOOD GUYNo wonder audience can't relate to a dude like that
>>222359565What's funny is that the whole conflict in the movie started because Superman interfered with another nation's politics (which blatantly commits crimes against humanity but no one cares apparently).And the resolution to that, after busting supes' balls the whole movie about it, is having MORE superheroes interfere and even murder the dictator.It's like Gunn got sick of it and said fuck it or something
>>222359175No Batman movie has done more money than Superman:The Movie at the box office (adjusted for inflation). Not Batman (1989), not The Dark Knight.Problem with Superman is that Hollyweird can't do aspirational heroes. They just have to make them flawed and relatable. Singer made him a weird, awkward, deadbeat dad creep that is cucked by Lois. Snyder made him into a careless, aloof, brooding alien that feels burdened by having to help humanity. Gunn leaned too heavily into giving him a childlike innocence. None of these directors got it quite right. Donner came the closest, even if the Clark Kent in those movies is absolutely wrong.It's not just Superman. The MCU never got Thor quite right either. I'd even argue that, for all their success, no Spider-Man movie has done Peter Parker the way he's in the comics.
>>222359380So, what you are saying is you like Martian Manhunter, not Superman.
>>222370248Gunn found the twitter bully story pretty relatable.
>>222359175Superman is boring. He's basically invincible. You know he's never going to lose a fight unless someone walks in with a green glowing rock. There is nothing compeling about Invincibleman
A superman movie needs to feel like art deco and set in the 1930s or 40s. otherwise it doesnt work
>>222370351that's a stupid observation, his enemies scale up with him. him not being relatable is due to a central lack of conflict with him. see >>222370248>>222368754
>>222362598Imagine how hard /tv/ would complain about this if it aired today.
>>222359175Too hard to get right. Big tl'dr incomingOlder people expect him to not hurt a fly and if he does (Zod's neck) they lose their shitYoung people find him kinda boring if hes not at least a bit edgySomewhat considered too American for the global audience and if they change that it comes across as wokeThey keep picking boring villains. Where is Brainiac and Darkseid? people are fucking sick of Luthor catching Supes with kryptoniteJust honestly overall not having a great film since Superman 1 in the fucking 70's. Superman Returns is just too boring for the general audience even if i can appreciate a character driven blockbuster. The casting was also just off, they looked too young.Man of Steel is better but Snyder trying to ape Nolan with the non linear story telling didn't really work. They went too far with the edgelord shit and action as a response to Returns. The DBZ fight scenes were good though, they got this very right. Superman (2025) is a MCU film years after the MCU fatigue hit. It's also flawed conceptually because Gunn filmed it as a episodic format and then rushed to tie it altogether in post. Not sure why WB let him do this. Clark and Lois had good chemistry but Lois is barely in it because of Gunn's retardation.
>>222359175DC kinda just sucks, every character is a planet breaker and then there's Batman. Batman ends up as the bread winner because nobody but already-invested nerds can fucking relate to Green Lantern zooming across three galaxies at 10x light speed to fight Clobbo in the Gorzee system before he can floof the Orp Manipulator or whatever the fuck. Where's Batman is just: crime on street->punch criminal. So what you end up with is DC trying to bust these galactic level guys like Shazam, Superman, Green Lantern down to the levels of Batman, Question, or Green Arrow. It's pure schizophrenia and Absolute DC and DCKO are both living proof that DC writers know they're working with effectively just mush. The answer is for DC to accept that they have a bunch of cartoon characters that simply aren't going to translate to the big screen. The fucking DCAU was already successful, literally right now, nothing stopping them, DC and Warner could tap Paul Dini on the shoulder and within 10 years have the market cornered on animation, and be making money hand over fist. But no, they want to contend with Marvel.
>>222370392No, he's invincible and there are no stakes. You can make someone so stupidly powerful that you no longer care what happens to them or anyone around them. That's why people don't care about Superman or Supergirl
>>222370486nigga, you trash talking green lantern, of all superheroes? him working as a space cop is where he shines
>>222370521>No, he's invincible and there are no stakes. You can make someone so stupidly powerful that you no longer care what happens to them or anyone around thembro this isn't saitama, plenty of superman's enemies are as strong as him or moresaying people don't care about him because he's too strong is retarded, people dislike him because he's perceived as a boy scout
>>222359324>People are just not interested in the "bright happy Superman" thing.Seems that you are right.Gunn's Superman made roughly 618 millions $USSnyder's Superman made about 670 millions $US, which would be 960 millions $US today.It's a shame : I like Gunn's version better.
>>222370621Not to mention that VOD and merch based on MoS still sell a ton.
>>222370528Yes but that's unrelatable to anyone but nerds already invested in the fantasy, that shit will never work as a movie unless you commit yourself to just ripping off GOTG for the 50th time which I'm sure DC wants to do
>>222362684>Superman is supposed to be a super intelligent, stoic god with unshakeable confidence and moral resolveYou guys have never read a Superman comic.
>>222370571People do dislike Superman for being too strong, we all already know the hero wins in the end but Batman stories or Spider-Man stories include heroes with known upper limits so we can at least pretend to get invested in the kayfabe whereas nobody cares if Superman has a jobber event that forces Superman to grunt while they're grappling because they've already established that Superman is strong enough to rip open a black hole, throw the bad guy into it, and then close it. There's no tension when Superman fights so they should reserve his combat solely for periods where the fight is a humiliation ritual for whatever enemy thought they were smart enough to plan around Superman's super everything.
>>222359175Spider-Man appeals much more to teenagers because he is funnier, more human, cooler, etc. Superman is more for adults that like to see a superhero that is perfect and represents justice.
>>222370265>Gunn leaned too heavily into giving him a childlike innocence.CorenSupes is not naive at all, did you somehow miss the entire interview with Lois? If he was too “innocent” he would’ve taken the claims about not!Bibi being a great guy at face value but he outright says that’s bullshit.
>>222370351So why then in this very thread are you autists whining about Gunn having Superman lose a fight?
>>22237064699% of superheroes are unrelatable, who the fuck would relate to the flash or thor? you follow them because they are interesting and funny to read about.batman and superman are the exceptions for the reasons I listed here >>222368754superman doesn't need to be relatable, he's this benevolent alien who idealizes humanity as something that can improve, that's the most interesting thing about him but of course it isn't appealing to the masses because it requires too many neurons to process, and these dumb movies don't help>>222370688>People do dislike Superman for being too strongcitation neededand regarding all the rest, you still pretend he fights only shitters when the strongest villains of DC are his regular foes>there's no tension because yadda yaddathere's no tension because he's fucking superman and he's never going to die, like batman and spiderman are never going to die, except for some gay even to boost sales and then be resurrected two years later
>>222370688In recent years (ok, a few decades already) Superman's stakes aren't about him brute forcing against an opponent : we know he'll win in a straight-up fight.It's about winning without having tons of people die/suffer, without betraying his principles and without losing the public opinion.It's also about being generous and brave with and without powers.
>>222370521CorenSupes got the shit beat out of him in the first scene of Superman 2025 so I don’t know why you’re bitching about Superman being “invincible”.
>>222370748Because he lost in a boring way. Superman's entire character is basically a conversation on how to kill God and all of the ways that Superman can be defeated are basically just ass pull arguments. The answer is to accept that he's a god and have a conversation with that, not dumb shit like "duhhh we cloned him!" or "durr there's a rock that works on him!"
>>222370748Because the way he lost is this bullshit.
>>222370796>Because he lost in a boring way. Or in other words you’re wrong but are too autistic to admit it. He lost a fight, was coughing up blood. >Superman's entire character is basically a conversation on how to kill GodYou pulled that out of your ass you moron. That’s never what he’s been about. The big “Death Of Superman” story is literally him getting beaten to death. You’ve got no clue what you’re talking about, all this “Superman is Jesus” crap only exists in the films with Donner adding it in for faux depth and Snyder shoving it down everyone’s throat because he’s a retard who has no subtlety.
>>222370765>99% of superheroes are unrelatable, who the fuck would relate to the flash or thor?Plenty of people do, relating isn't about powers it's about humanity.>you follow them because they are interesting and funny to read about.Yes this is called relating to something. People can relate to Thor because he has a family, limits, stakes, and real human concerns despite having the powers of a God. Superman really doesn't have that, his parents are always disconnected from his stories, sometimes if Lois isn't cheating on him then she'll be a part of Superman's stories, but for the most part Superman is just a god-alien who can solve shit with zero stakes.
>>222370796are you suggesting that lex luthor should just give up on trying to likk superman? like, all of the villains should just give up because why even bother?I mean in real life it would make sense, but you're basically advocating for the end of the comics (which would unironically be a good thing)
>>222370838And this makes you butthurt… why exactly? >Oh no an opponent fought dirty REEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!Hey guess what: Superman won that fight by using his brain! It’s hilarious how Gunn addressed every complaint you autists come up with and you still sperg out.
>>222370851ok but what makes green lantern unreliable then? he's some dude working as a space cop. admittedly GLs that aren't Hal have more going on on a personal level, but that's because most of the lore progression is done through Hal so there's less room for it (or there was, I haven't read anything in 10 years)
>>222370850Admit what? He lost in a boring way, I don't think I'm the autistic one if this is giving you asspain.>You pulled that out of your ass you moronThe fuck I did you fucking tourist, Superman's entire 100 year history has been an ongoing conversation on basically, yeah, how do you challenge or kill God? If you want to divorce it from the God of Abraham, go ahead, it doesn't matter, the point is still that they have a God-like alien character and the goal of writing a good Superman story is always to introduce a believable and interesting challenge for a character that can't be challenged. Very few writers can do that and the stories where that concept was handled effectively just aren't movie materials, people are bored and disgusted with the same old crap tropes, "oh look this character is stronger than God but OOPSIE someone has a green rock so now he's just a coughing baby how is he gonna handle this?! WOW looks like he got all his powers back at the end!" Gay
>>222370877It's not because the villain fought dirty, it is because it looks awful. Cheap, badly made VFX, saturation up the ass making everything even uglier, the gay fight choreography, the unfunny and stale attempt at ZOWNY humor. It is shit. It is gay.There is nothing cool about it. It lacks "aura", like in those coom Korean webtoons and Japanese animus.
>>222370858I mean basically yeah, but I wouldn't say for in universe Lex to stop because why would he? Nobody around Superman knows his upper limits, which don't exist, so it does make sense for Lex to just keep sciencing up new ways to fuck with Superman.
>>222370928>Superman's entire 100 year history has been an ongoing conversation on basically, yeah, how do you challenge or kill God?You are fucking retarded lmaoooooo. That’s not what the Siegel/Shuster stories were, those were just Siegel imagining a strong man beating up all the social ills of the world Samson style. Silver Age Superman was cheap entertainment for kids. The modern Superman runs under Williamson and PKJ aren’t about that either. You’re a complete sperg if you think every single Superman story is about your edgy 10 year old desire to kill God.
>>222370982Ah you're a fuckin theist and it's impossible to talk to you tards with any amount of nuance. Go fuck yourself and take your family with you when you go I guess.
>>222370936Shit CGI never stopped the MCU so that’s not a believable reason for why Superman can’t match Spidey. And it’s one moment in a fight sequence so you’re sperging out over it for no reason.
>>222371001No way you’re actually an r/atheism retard? Kek no wonder you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Talk to a therapist about the pastor touching your wee wee and then you might realize that not everything is about your retarded vendetta against God.
>>222371010The new movie, specially with the trailers, made the Spider-Man new scenes look cool. The sequence that is even every trailer and spot is Peter eyes going black and him releasing a bunch of web, clearly getting a ninjutsu power up. Add this with a bunch of ninjas trying to get him, and is like every cool anime that kids like to watch.Superman trailers, meanwhile, was Superman getting disrespected by his own goddamn dog like a fucking chidless woman and him getting kicked in the balls. Do you think any kid find that cool?
>>222371044I'm not an atheist because being an atheist relies on the God of Abraham existing, and, it doesn't. But yeah you're fucking impossible to talk to, all of you are. Tribal brained retards always trying to build a ring for your gay little wrestling matches. Let's finish it out I guess. Yes, Superman is basically a conversation on how to kill or challenge God for entertainment, including his Silver age appearances is fine because the concept is the same: how do you challenge the unchallengable. But with that said, you should kill yourself as soon as you get a chance.
>>222371066>Superman trailers, meanwhile, was Superman getting disrespected by his own goddamn dog like a fucking chidless woman and him getting kicked in the balls. Do you think any kid find that cool?Why lie? The Superman trailers showed him blitzing Lex’s thugs, rescuing people, and the people chanting his name. They opened with him bleeding because of people in this thread bitching about Superman being invincible. So Gunn established from the first shot that his Superman wasn’t an invincible god at all, but still showed him doing cool stuff.
>>222371130None of the scenes were cool.
>>222371066You nailed it my man. I don't know what was the target audience for the last Superman movie but that whole thing of Superdog was ridiculous for me. Who cares about a dog with superpowers rescuing Superman?
>>222360755Because Snyder's Superman lives in a world that would sooner lock him up as a labrat for the rest of his natural life if they knew who he was/what he could do.
>>222371099>I'm not an atheist because being an atheist relies on the God of Abraham existing, and, it doesn't. Oh my fuck, are you some Pajeet who doesn’t understand English? The denial of the existence of a deity is the very definition of atheism you retard lmaooooo. If God exists but you hate him that’s ANTI-THEISM you stupid bastard.>Yes, Superman is basically a conversation on how to kill or challenge God for entertainment, including his Silver age appearances is fine because the concept is the same: how do you challenge the unchallengable.No you’re projecting your own psychosis onto the character. Superman is a superhero, he beats up bad guys, goes on scifi adventures, has soap opera drama. If you stretch that to say it’s all about “challenging God” then your neurotic ass has to include Spider-Man too because it’s all the same shit.>But with that said, you should kill yourself as soon as you get a chance.It’s clear Paster Bob touching you left a mark Kek, but take your own advice. Clearly your life is worthless if you’re here arguing that a corporate capeshit character meant to entertain children is actually a vessel for edgy Reddit atheists to kill God l.
>>222371130The only scene I have watched from the trailers (because I haven't watched the movie) that looked interesting to me was the one where Superman is being cured in the Fortress of Solitude by those robots.
>>222359383>Superman needs gravityhe doesn't though, he can fly in space perfectly fine
>>222371149Yeah they were. You were simply too autistic to enjoy them.
>>222371214>some Pajeet who doesn’t understand English? The denial of the existence of a deity is the very definition of atheism you retard lmaooooo.Atheism can't exist without a God to deny, no God to deny, no atheism. You are definitely some drug addicted retard "redeemed zoomer" piece of shit and your overly emotional post is evidence of an incredibly fragile pissbaby who just wants an outlet for your impotent rage at being molested and "forced" to do meth as a teenager. I agree with the other Anon, just kys yourself.
>>222371235You think this look cool? This looks like a gay parody of the Minecraft movie.
>>222371162Something about Krypto really triggered people. I guess it was seeing a big in your face reminder that Superman is for children and not a super serious story for big boys like Snyderjeets pretend Snyder was?
>>222371267>I guess it was seeing a big in your face reminder that Superman is for childrenEven kids, age 8-11, want to see cool heroics. That's why they're watching anime.
>>222371255>Atheism can't exist without a God to denyNo retard, atheism is the denial that a God exists at all.>your overly emotional post is evidence of an incredibly fragile pissbaby who just wants an outlet for your impotent rage at being molested and "forced" to do meth as a teenager.Nothing in my post was emotional, you’re the one resorting to telling people to kill themselves in a rage because I nailed that you’re some seething faggot who got molested>I agree with the other Anon, just kys yourself.Again: take your own advice. That you’re reduced to samefagging and pretending to be two people now is just sad
>>222371260>Superman is… saving people?!? AHHHHHH SAVE ME SNEEDERYeah that sequence was cool. Sorry it didn’t end with him snapping the baby’s neck or whatever
>>222371330No, Krypto is saving people AND Superman. Superman is doing fuck all but ask for help and plead with the dog.
>>222359175>>222362777I think it might be this. Since Spider-Man and Batman wear a mask, most people can self-insert as them.
>>222371311>atheism is the denial that a God exists at allAtheism is actually the denial of Gods plural and is a slur used exclusively against Christians, if you care about accuracy. Third anon btw but I'm ready for your schizopost about how I'm actually the CIA and 40 other people.
>>222359380>Superman should feel like a gloomy godWhy? Because you feel gloomy? Superman should be about hope and optimism and principled integrity, full stop. No Grit, no Gloom, No Irony, no self-pity, no deconstruction, no "I gotta bend my own rules". He should have rules and win by sticking to them.Gunn's treatment of Superman's parents (and Supergirl) was a major detractor from that movie. The biggest thing is the studios being afraid to break from the past. Why did they bring back Zod? Zod doesn't even figure into the comics. It's like the Trek studio execs always wanting to bring back Khan.
Good morning, Sir me all you want. People keep searching for reasons Snyder flopped because they were gaslit into thinking he did. He didn't. The movies made money. They just didn't make Marvel phase 1 Avengers money. But they were far from failures. Then you have Aquaman and Suicide Squad become surprise hits that smashed the box office. The numbers don't lie. They took something that worked and that people went to go see, and got rid of it because they didn't make 2 billion.There was a noticeable post-Snyder drop and now we live in a world where Gunn can absolutely tank with The Suicide Squad, and then they give him the keys to the city so he can make Kryptonians of the Galaxy. It makes zero fucking sense.
>>222371260HAHAHAHAHAHAHA get that off of my telly naaaao...What the fuck is that? It has it all, the cute little monster, the cute dog with the superman cape...
>>222359175Superman villains all suck
>>222371267Children nowadays don't even know who Superman is. As far as I know Superman has never been for children but for teenagers and young adults. People that are at least 14 or so.
>>222359175Terrible writers and charisma voids.Not that Tom Holland is that charismatic, but he got hard carried by the superhero boom and audiences got used to him as Spiderman.
>>222371678Women love him, they find him cute or something like that. When I watched the movie there were 2 girls next to me that each time he was on camera or with MJ in a romantic scene they said "oooowwwww" like saying how cute he is. Also one of them said "there it is my husband" or something similar.
>>222359175hard to relate to an overpowered alien whose only weakness is a green rock from space
>>222359383>DCU needs a 5 year hiatus minimum, and then a total rebuild from scratch.New completely AI movies will begin releasing soon at least once per year (The Odyssey may already be one such slopheap). None of them will be numbered, they'll all have either the basic character or team name, or that plus a subtitle like "Justice League: The Case of the Furious Doughnut." It'll all be confusing as hell, and the rate of releases will increase. You'll probably get a new Spider-Man movie every 2 months before long. Pretty soon, it'll seem like you're in a crappy AVGN video where you have no idea what anyone else is talking about whenever hero X or team B is brought up. Everyone will be talking past each other, no one will understand what anyone else is saying, but everyone will be 100% certain that they're correct and refuse to ask clarifying questions.
>>222371648I grew up with Superfriends and Superman Storybooks that focused on his origin and special powers and didn't even pretend to have deep drama. It was meant to inspire confidence and integrity in the kids who read it and that's about it.>>222371641No. They're just used badly. They're meant to be a challenge superman can't just punch or fly his way out of. Braniac ought to be used as a universe-wide Skynet with an endless Terminator army. Luthor ought to be corrupt and dirty and greedy, but not an outright criminal regularly launching superweapons with his logo on them at Metropolis because he hates Superman.
>>222359324>Zack Snyder's darker, grittier Superman could do it.Hahaha, classic snyder cuck.
>>222360825>Cavill Superman also saved more people on screen.Yeah, remember that time he jumped over a gasoline truck, and let it explode into a building? Haha, so much saving!
>>222360825>Cavill Superman saved more people and for longer time.Next time watch it with eyes opened.
>>222359175boring character for fags
>>222361578Dude was right, that image imprinted onto your mind. Ariel imprinted onto mine when the ads started hitting the airwaves. Took decades for the nostalgia goggles to finally fade a bit.Had I better parents who actually parented, they may have instructed me better in myriad ways, including teaching me about nostalgia goggles and imprinting.>>222361669Sharp angles on every facial feature, not rounded. Lazy. The backgrounds, the skylines and vistas of Metropolis were peak in that show, but the character art was mid af.
>>222362598If you haven't seen it since then, try watching season 3 and 4 now. This shit gets BAD. The writing is silver age-tier, Clark basically allows an amnesiac Lois to be raped by Lex repeatedly because she goes with him voluntarily (but again, whilst having amnesia AND thinking she's someone else, so he's allowing a brain damaged woman to get raped).It has a lot of good highs, but the lows are abysmal. The 90s toon was better and far more consistent.
>>222359175Oh he is, but he kind of represents the man of tomorrow from the 50´s you know or at least that kind of men guiding light. You know, the ones that believed the american dream was the way to a better world, the ones that dared to hope. Hollywood can´t have that you see, it goes against their narrative so they have to make him scary or turn him into a joke so he won´t resonate with audiences. Imagine if by accident people started to believe again and turned against corporate. That would be bad.
I don't see many children nowadays wanting to go watch a Superman movie to the theater. Maybe something that is more from their generation like some videogame or anime yes but not for Superman.
>>222372122>Imagine if by accident people started to believe again and turned against corporate.Superman is anticorporate?
>>222362818>He's not supposed to be super intelligent thoHe can read a book in seconds, he can calculate trajectories of ricochet shots from bullets in real time and compensate for the properties of the different materials it'll strike, he can see things moving at what would seem a standstill from our perspective, thus giving him time to adjust any tactics with god-like seeming-precognition.>>222362684>He should have galactic level threats and be doing huge feats of strength.Yeah, he just needs bigger stronger guys to punch him harder, like Doomsday.No, retard, that's the most boring shit you could've posted. Lex Luthor works so well as his ultimate nemesis because he can so easily be killed with a flick of Clark's wrist, and Clark wouldn't even feel his vertebrae as he crushed his spine in his bare hands. He works because Superman "doesn't kill" (faggot, lol), and Lex has no superpowers, only naturally exceptional intelligence above basically everyone else on Earth, plus pure ruthlessness and a complete lack of sentimentality.>>222362706>Because he is Jewish his story is the same as MosesMoses was of the tribe of Levi, not of Judah, retard.
>>222362777>superman doesn't wear a mask so he's even less relatable to non-white peopleYeah, niggers can't self-insert with Wolverine or Goku.
>>222359175He’s the only character that would benefit from almost always being early or pre 20’s. Invincible is doing big for a reason, Smallville has a faithful following to this day, Absolute Superman is twinkified. Him & Spider-Man have the exact opposite problems ironically.
>>222359304Superman 78 came out during the Cold War, retard. And it made a billion in today's money.
>>222361283>I said acts like Peter Parker not Spider Man. Whole high school teen angst. The whole “can’t tell MJ/Lana muh secret identity” which causes a bunch drama. Even Clark’s powers are scaled downSo that's why I loved Smallville so much.
>>222361063>he's too punk rockSpidey's unironically more punk rock than Superman.
>>222359324They either want byronic hero Superman like MoS or Peter Parker Superman like in Smallville. Nobody wants bubblegum Superman.
>>222370621I like Gunn's better too and I hate Snyder's but that's just the reality we live in. The world is gloomier than ever and for Superman in particular, people want to see something they can relate to rather than escapism. It's also related to the image of Superman built in most people's mind in the post-Donner/Reeves movies era. It's not something you can compare to the more vulnerable Spiderman or the overly dark and gloomy Batman.
>>222373655The gunn superman movie was insanely bad, easily and by far the worst superman movie. One of the worst movies of last year, definitely the worst movie with its budget. even as a woman-hating racist, I would rather rewatch black panther and captain marvel.
>>222373086he uhh.. had that punk rocker song in his movie or something
People don't realize that Superman is at least 50% a romantic comedy.
>>222373031you mean when america was feeling really really really good about itself?
>>222359304There is one way to do a Superman story in times like these, and it’s hearkening back to his roots - no alien invasions, no cosmic threats, no mad scientists with doomsday weapons, just a man fighting corruption and evil wherever he finds it. A force for good that can’t be stopped, a man who can’t be corrupted because he does truly stand for truth and justice, something to remind us that those things *are* the American way, not this farce we’re living in. A man who understands that if the law has been corrupted and turned into a tool that serves the few and oppresses the many, the only way to fight for justice is from a place outside it, beyond it. A man who can not be broken, not just because of who and what he is, but because of what he represents. I don’t even want him to know where he’s from. Let that be something he learns along the way. Let it be years before he’s even capable of the flying and the laser eyes. And that “S” on his chest isn’t some ancient Kryptonian symbol of hope; it’s something his mom made for him that *becomes* a symbol of hope.
>>222359380>superman should be always upset not upset by what people saywhat
>>222359380Exactly how I feel.
>>222374179You gonna read Superman: The Stranger next month?
>>222374196>Superman should be shitting his diaper because someone was mean to him on the internet.
>>222359424Parasite is pretty cool
>>222374301He's a jobber, they should put Terra-Man in a movie.
>>222374175>you mean when america was feeling really really really good about itself?Superman 25 made most of its money in the US. It failed internationally.
>>222374271First I’ve heard about it, but it’s precisely what I’m talking about.
>>222360192>Snyder was too far on one end of the spectrum and Gunn is too far on the other endThis.Snyder had the spectacle right, just make Superman's fights look like DBZ. His Superman was too gloomy though.Gunn overcorrected with his Superman. Gunnman is a whiny baby that cries over being called Supershit.
>>222359175The last time Superman was universally liked was in Smallville, just write Superman that way, that's how you do it.>B-but I want politics and to introduce my personal insecurities.>B-but Superman must be an autistic version of Jesus Christ.
>>222374179And make Clark Kent a reporter who works for the Daily Planet, but who also publishes other articles online anonymously. The stories “Clark” can prove go to the planet, the stories only Superman can get published from anonymity.
>>222359175DC has a bad track record with tons of shitty moviesSuperman is heavily coded as American and sentiment for America is at an all time low.
>>222359324>>222359304Superman is better off just marketing to kids, idk why they keep trying to make it le dark
>>222374716>B-but Superman must be an autistic version of Jesus Christ.My guy, he was exactly that in Smallville.
>>222374808>Superman is heavily coded as AmericanAs if Spider-Man wasn't, anyhow both aren't even close to Captain America.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNMJRY2WuCM
>>222374789>And make Clark Kent a reporter who works for the Daily PlanetNo.
>>222374808>Superman is heavily coded as American and sentiment for America is at an all time low.Literal redditor cope.
>>222359175Well there is a massive drop off in mainstream popularity between the top two Superheroes of Batman and Spider-Man, and Supes.Hell, if you could teams and don't limit it to just individual heroes, the 'big three' are Batman, Spider-Man, and the X-Men. Has been since the 90s.Superman for some reason works better on TV than in film.I guess since Superman's action is harder to do in live action, it's better to focus on the characters and their relationships, and that makes tv a better fit for the Man of Steal
Well MAYBE if they cast someone popular or handsome as superman, they'd get more butts in seats
>>222375887>I guess since Superman's action is harder to do in live actionIt isn't.
Superman only works on TV. Nobody is interested in seeing him on the big screen anymore. That’s just the reality of it
>>222376005This. Superman action is the easiest. Spider Man would be the hardest. It actually benefited Spider Man having the movie rights tied up legal hell for decades. A SM movie with practical FX would be very difficult and likely look terrible
>>222376005No it really is.Spider-Man is all about acrobatics, Batman is about stealth and martial arts. Both rely mainly on gadgets.Superman's powers involve him flying, shooting lasers out of his eyes, moving faster than light, being mostly invulnerable.It's hard to sell that in a way which brings tension, and it's also far more expensive to pull off than either other member of the big three
>>222359175He's one of the big 3 by cultural relevance rather than by being popular. What I mean, is that his stories aren't as fondly remembered as the origin itself.Everyone knows how the Superman is made, but no one knows what comes after. Because what comes after is a character with all the power that strives from the idea of being against technology (yes, really) by being a peak "man", a strong sense for collectivism and altruism, and easily saving the day. Which don't make for good cinematic scripts that don't tear that part of the character into different pieces, the """romantic""" one, the gritty and fighter one, the hopeful one. Just different takes of a long studied character that just can't translate well to most audiences. Because the idea of an unstoppable hero failing isn't as well received.Batman and Spiderman are the idea that a man that was granted a gift can overcome anything, which makes them more "relatable" and easy to make stories about the man failing but steeping into doing the right thing
>>222359175>Is he not big 3 material?No
>>222370138>with mental issuesMost Americans are mentally ill so wouldn’t that make him more relatable?
>>222366690You attribute this to Snyder, but in reality is Goyer's fault, Snyder only took it after him when he landed the job since Nolan didn't want itGoyer went on record that he also found the character boring, which what let him into make Man of Steel with Nolan at first. That's why the writting for him was really bad after MoS, since it was different idea that Snyder had from Goyer
>>222359175He's not popular, niggaOutside of America, nobody gives a shit about Superman ever.
>>222376397Outside of America no one gives a fuck about any superhero.What are you on about?
>>222376420>any superhero.spiderman? 60% profit from overseas
>>222359324Let's just say Snyder's vision sucked, but he had one.Gunn, on the other hand, seems to be directionless.
>>222361022thisHow do you even portray a good Superman that people feel connected with? And his superpower isn't even earned; he's just born with it, never has to adapt.Most kids imagine themselves robbing a bank if they had his powerThis is why evil Superman is a more interesting subject.
>222376602b8
>>222359424>Outside of Luthor, Brainiac and Zod,Darkseid and Doomsday are both iconic. And the only reason the rest of his rogue gallery isn't popular is because they have yet to be adapted into a movie. Spider-Man has the benefit of having 8 beloved movies (Raimi Trilogy, Holland Quadrology, first Garfield movie) and Batman has 7 beloved movies (1 Adam West one, 2 Burton ones, 3 Nolan movies, and the 2023 movie). All Superman has is the two Reeves movies and the controversial Man of Steel and Gunn reboots.
I think Superman does well enough.I mean both of his last films made 600+ million dollars.Sure he may not be as big as other heroes, he potentially may even have les of a box office appeal than Wonder Woman if she were to be pushed correctly, but Superman has an appeal.Superman 25 clicked with many people and got many excited over it.I think while it definitely could be improved, it has a working version of Superman which is more in line to the core appeal of the character than what Snyder brought us.
>>222376602>How do you even portray a good Superman that people feel connected with?By writing Goku.You can get around the problems with his powers by nerfing him a bit, most adaptations do that anyway.
>>222372649>InvincibleDid you forget how badly people seethed about metropolis getting gaped by ZodGod? Invincible would be a disaster to model Superman around
>>222376858Goku gets a powerup and no one bats an eye because it's anime shit. You try to do that to Superman and you can't just get away with it.
>>222359424Read some comics sometime.Doomsday, Bizarro, Tempest, Mr. Mxyzptlk, Metallo, The Parasite, he's got plenty fun villains to work with.Maybe not Toyman, he's a bit lame
>>222377141Those villains suck
>>222376858Goku is extremely stupid and is not a moralfagHis gimmick is fighting and powering up.
>>222376858That's lame.That's not the appeal of Superman.Superman is about the romance inherent in a guy blessed with extraordinary power, and choosing to be a hero with them. Someone both all-powerful and all-good.He isn't a hero who trains with a goal of getting stronger, his goal is to help people and save the day.This is why he does so well with romance stories, the Superman part of him is pretty basic, the Clark Side has more narrative potential
>>222376858>By writing Goku.Oh yeah, the idiot-savant whose single-minded lust for combat constantly endangers not only his friends and family, but now the entirety or reality.I like Dragon Ball, but I am so sick of people constantly comparing Goku and Superman just because they have some minor similarities in backstory (which was a retcon).
>>222376858The difference between Superman and Goku and why most people like the latter more is that Goku is a martial artist and needs to always fight to improve himself and best opponents. Superman with a yellow sun already has his powers. He deals with threats to the world and does not really do anything for self-improvement like Goku.
>>222377180You don't even know who they are.
>>222359276I hope someone stabs you, you absolute fucking retard.
>>222376858Goku is outdated too, doesn't work anymore as concept.
>>222374179I have been dying for someone to do this right. Fuck, I’d make it as a deluxe budget series. I’m not saying go full “Surf Dracula” with it, but make it like a Superman: Year One sort of setting. Do a more graduated powering up than Snyder could show in Man of Steel, and like Snyder, imply that it’s more of a belief/confidence thing than it is him actually gaining power, more about accessing and mastering it he power than it is gaining it. You could also explore something else that both Snyder as well as the animated series seems to be implying - that developing on Earth makes him at least to some degree powered by humanity’s faith in him. I want mystery man/guardian angel scenes like we got on that oil rig in Man of Steel. Make him a rumor, sort of the flip side of the Batman’s urban legend mystique.
>>222376838>I think Superman does well enoughAnd yet it was considered a disappointment.>Superman 25 clicked with many people and got many excited over it.lol>it has a working version of Superman which is more in line to the core appeal of the character than what Snyder brought us.Keep coping, Supernerd.
>>222377573You’re both dense. Superman Returns didn’t have any super villains and people were bored as fuck. Why they got Snyder and had Superman punching people through buildings and destroying Metropolis
>>222376246>It's hard to sell that in a way which brings tensionYou solve that by having him fight dudes just as strong or stronger.
>>222378037>And yet it was considered a disappointment.By you? Who cares.
>>222363617>it-it was WBWas it WB that made Snyder release more shitty extended editions of Rebel Moon too? I won’t argue about nobody dying in Superman 25 but there’s no reason that he couldn’t at least save one single soul and just sits there stoically amongst their rotting corpses
>>222377342Nah
>>222378116>By you?
>>222359175Superman films never resonated with kids in the 2000s. With Spider-Man, each actor had multiple films each coming back to back. None of them never had any long breaks without any Spider-Man movies and even when they were rebooted, they still came within a year or two from each other. For Superman however they completely fucked over each actor in the 21st century in that regard>Routh: One movie with a 7 year gap between his and a reboot. No sequels whatsoever>Cavill: One movie with back to back spin offs. After Josstice League he was nowhere to be seen with audiences assuming he just quit. Brought back after 5 years for a cameo in Black Adam only to be shafted when Gunn took over.>Cornsweat: One film so far whoch had him sidelined for other DC Heroes. Next appearance was in a movie nobody saw. His next appearance is repeating the same mistakes by introducing more DC Heroes and is being used in a bid to save the franchise from being canned by Paramount.None of those Superman films came out at a short amount of time like Spider-Man's. Given the comics, Marvel and Sony was able to twist the reboots into an overarching story with No Way Home.
>>222378037>And yet it was considered a disappointment.No it wasn't.It performed to expectation, made a narrow profit.It was the biggest superhero film of its year by a wide margin.
>>222378087Well then you get into weird anime bullshit of action figures just slamming into each other.It's super expensive to pull off in live action, and less dynamic and visually interesting than Spider-Man's web-slinging or Batman's stealth acrobatics.
>>222378694See >>222378242
>>222378242>cosmicbooknews
>>222359175If Brand New Day had pulled Batman/Superman box office, Sony would have panicked again and despaired. Do not compare Spidey to these two low-grossing faggorts.
>>222378242>the same guy who says theaters are dying and has a clear incentive to devalue WB as much as possible because he was trying to buy said it underperformed
>>222378736Netflix didn't make that movie!
>>222378798>>222378902The Netflix CEO had to know about WB ongoings, since he was going to buy.And when he testified, it was because the government was worried he'd shorten the theatrical window of WB movies.He said that he'd follow what WB was already doing, shorten the theatrical window that were disappointments, and he named Superman as an example.This under oath.
Batman is an ordinary guy taking on a huge mission in trying to clean up Gotham City. Though he is a billionaire equipping himself with the best weaponry, vehicles and gadgets to give himself advantages, he still gets hurt, beat up, injured. Spider-Man while being a super human still gets hurt and beat up too, while also having to deal with being a broke student wagie. Both of these characters have struggles and toils to overcome, something that brings them down to earth and makes them the underdogs. Superman however is seen as grossly overpowered, barely ever in danger and when he is its just the same old kryptonite and his alter ego life is going very well. I think its a sign of the times, people don't want untouchable heroes, they want guys seen as more ordinary rising up and fighting their hearts out, taking licks and having to earn their victories.
>>222378161Greentexting won’t change the fact WB were indeed responsible for why the theatrical release left out plot details that were there in the first place. I also don’t see what Rebel Moon has to do with anything either even though I do agree that was garbage. Can there just be an actual discourse instead of this extreme offshoot of console warring about pro or anti-snyder fagging?
>>222378980Why are you assuming the Netflix guy knew what he was talking about?Superman hasn't made that much money theatrically since his original film series with Chris Reeve.And, though many Hollywood execs don't realize it, the era of all Superhero movies being guaranteed 300mil minimum returns, is well over.The fact that Superman made over 600mil was a good showing.It did show that the budgets need to be drawn back, but it was a good inning all things considered.Sure Spider-Man, one of the biggest brands to ever exist, can make bank at the box office, but that's something which applies just to him and maybe Batman
>>222379127Because he was going to bid for the company, and WB has to show him everything for that to happen.He even named another WB movie, when trying to give example of movies that had a bigger theatrical window. That movie about black vampires or some shit.
>>222361390>Writing an interesting Superman movie is easy, you just have to give him a thought-provoking moral problem that he needs to solve with brains and diplomacy and so on.such as? you claim it's easy, so back up your claim or your post means nothing
>>222359175Cause it was mid and it felt my a Superman and justice gang movie. That and DC's previous track probably affected it too. Unlike Spider-man who is a franchise and "multiverse"(I fucking hate that word) all in itself.>Is he not big 3 material?There is only SPIDER-MAN!!!!!>>222363130The spider-man movie with vulture made more money than Gunn's super-man.
>>222376420Spider-man literally got a Japanese show that inspired super sentai back in the 70s
