as good reason as any

Better reason than WWI

>>222617776
>love of your life gets murdered in front of you
>''get over it Anon, lmao''
If only I could I would slap your fat face.

simp couldn't accept his girl wanted CHADkashi instead

>>222617813
she didnt even want him you little weasel, you wouldn't do shit keyboard warrior.

>>222617776
>Pain but worse

The theory of Tobi being Sasuke from the future was more kino than what we got

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Naruto > Shippuden

don't (You) me

>>222617776
The Pain arc is so fucking overrated, I don't get why people keep treating it as the peak of the series.

>>222617776
It's impossible to articulate how much I love this nigga

>>222617813
>everybody collectively manage to resurrect literally every significant ninja figure from history
>except this guy's waifu

>>222617831
I bench 260lbs, I would annihilate your ass bitch.

>>222617848
To be honest Nagato/Pain went through much worse than Obito. At least Pain was honest with the situation of the real world and wanted to actually fix it and not create a shitty Matrix illusory dream

>>222617893
The peak of Naruto is from the Gaara rescue arc up towards Itachi VS Sasuke
Then it nosedives hard after Pain

>>222617881
Why would Sasuke ever massacre the Uchiha?

>>222617893
Naruto is accepted by the village, fulfilled the prophecy, and got a hug from Sakura. Honestly him being accepted because the village started appreciating him off-screen is fucking retarded.

>>222618007
Timeloop stuff

>>222617881
>The theory of Tobi being Sasuke from the future was more kino than what we got

I'm not sure whether I should be ashamed or proud of pushing that crack theory into the fandom mainstream.

>>222617813
>Killed in front of him by the friend he gave his life for and told to look after her
>This right after he woke up with half a body left
Better reasons to crashout than other villains in the same series

>>222617776
nah he and madara were in the right
starting a war to end suffering for all time is kino

>>222617934
No he didn't, he was all in on the matrix plan until he betrayed Obito after getting tnj'd. Now, if you're implying he was never going to follow through with his plan and was already prepared to double cross him that's an interesting take

>>222617911
they were zombies lol

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>>222618114
>Timeloop stuff

>>222618217
Did Nagato even know about the Eye of the Moon plan?

>>222618310
Nope
The only ones who knew were Obito, Kisame and Zetsu

>>222618310
Yes, he was just an Obito follower after the latter blackpilled him and Konan post Yahiko's death which he helped cause

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The ending was a bit off

>Tobi is behind it!
>gets a fight with Kakashi then chills out and becomes good because his heart was not in it
>Madara is behind it!
>gets shanked by black zetsu after styling over everyone for a bit and getting too cocky
>black zetsu is behind it!
>he's just a golem really
>Kaguya is behind it!
>she actually just wanted her kids to stop being total assholes and saved the planet from getting consumed by the otsutsuki clan, who are on average frieza sadistic tier aliens

imagine you're about to enter the mugen tsukuyomi and have all your dreams come true and then that nepobaby naruto pulls you out to "save" everyone because he has to become hokage and he doesn't feel it's real enough unless there are a bunch of losers around to glaze him. what a shithead

>>222618285
a zombie waifu is fine too
just gotta learn lube release

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>Ok we're cool right?

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>>222618428

>>222618458
cypher eating steak . mp4

>>222618428
Narutard is a lot of things, but a nepobaby isn’t one of them. None of his peers besides Sakura and Lee are anything without their bloodlines and clan techniques

>>222618551
his dad (the hokage and most powerful leaf ninja at the time) gave him the ultimate weapon with the plan to leak the chakra gradually making him super powerful

then he got training from one of the legendary sannin due to that

>noooooo I'm not a nepobaby because my trust fund doesn't unlock until I am 15!!!!

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>>222617776
He's just like me.

>>222618551

>not a nepo baby
>fourth is one of the best shinobi of all time and a hokage in his time
>mother has an insanely large pool of chakra and was a tailed beast host casually
>through them he descends from asura, and kaguya

you CANNOT get more nepo than that in the setting

>>222618648
that’s really stretching the definition

>>222618420
Anime is so stupid and gay

>>222618056
>Naruto is accepted by the village, fulfilled the prophecy,
See, people praise this aspect of the arc a lot, but I just don't get why. Naruto decided to spare the guy that nuked his village in order to end the cycle of hatred, and he doesn't have to deal with any of the consequences for it. He doesn't have to deal with the people of Konoha hating him after he just let the terrorist that killed 90% of the village go because, conveniently, said terrorist was tnj'd by him, had the ability to revive everyone he killed and then he died from using said ability. All because he made Nagato remember Jiraiya based one of the character from his novels on him.
Also Naruto's win against Pain is unearned af. I hate how Minato pops out of nowhere as a deus ex machina, turns Naruto back to normal and heals him up without Naruto having to do anything for it.

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>>222617776
You're forgetting the part where he was a pawn to this demon

yeah talk no jutsu was the worst
>bro, I'm the main character. so fucking die ok?

>>222618420
>reality is a pyramid scheme
It's amazing how naruto simultaneously filters people, while being regarded as supposedly the dumbest anime

>>222617911
Only Madara was autistic enough to want to be brought back to life, everyone else seemed being keen on returning to the other side. So I doubt whether Rin would be happy with being Rinne Tensei'd.

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FUCK KISHIMOTO

With the Tobi = Obito reveal, Kishimoto cements himself as being leagues above other shonen manga writers. They're not even in the same universe.

90% of fights in Bleach just happen because the enemies belong to different fantasy being factions
90% of fights in One Piece just happen because of treasure/hostage of the week
90% of fights in Dragon Ball just happen because everyone wants the Dragon Balls

The motives of the main antagonists of Naruto are infinitely more complex, so much that they're only hinted at for most of the manga. Obito's entire told life led up to doing what he does, panel for panel. He's not really a villain, he's a casualty of the system who - through sheer wonder and unlike thousands of others - survived. And that's why he has no other choice to use his "second life" to tear the entire system down.

How is a man supposed to deal with his love dying before his eyes, at the hands of his trusted best friend? He simply doesn't, there is no way he could. The Infinite Tsukuyomi isn't just a generic "world conquer" plot (Frieza) or "become the strongest!!" (Luffy), it's the sole way a man could find out of his trauma, even if it's at the cost of the real world. No, specifically because the real world won't exist after that.

It's not really possible to read another shonen after this, they all seem like Saturday morning cartoons.

>>222617776
I want to say this is a reductionist take but I don't remember what was his actual motivation beyond... that

>>222619938
>I want to say this is a reductionist take but I don't remember what was his actual motivation beyond... that

It was literally that, with the excuse that her death proved that reality wasn't worth living in or something.

>>222619938
It was more about his foundations getting destroyed. He blamed kakashi, minato and the leaf for failing rin, and was pushed over the edge by zetzu gaslighting and exploiting his mental state + inherent schizo uchiha genes

>>222618444
how did diddy+epstein of the ninja world get away with it??

>>222618217
Nagato didn't know about the infinit teriyaki plan, he thought capturing the tail beasts would help him create a giga nuke to stablish a cold war ("peace) scenario for the ninja world

He and Itachi had a talk about this when they were walking around as edo tensei zombies, they didn't know what was Obito's real goal. Nagato was only "blackpilled" because he gave up on Jiraiya's ideals and embraced Obito's retarded "the entire world is shit and doesn't have any hope" mindset

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>>222617776
Ah ok, now I get why he never opened his eyes.

>>222617776
You've never been in love, have you, anon?

>>222617813
She didn't even get murdered she killed herself

>>222617996
I liked sauske vs danzo and the conversation with naruto after most

>>222617881
>Time travel bullshit
No thanks

>>222618796
Naruto always kills you with kindness. That is his greatest weapon

>>222620144
naruto the type of guy to talk no jutso osama bin laden if he could

>>222619325
See, the main problem with the entire "tearing down the system" is that the manga/narrative never commits to it fully. The theme is there, the elements are there, the characters are there, but it never comes to pass.
Naruto (as a person) simply reinforces the status quo and the current state of affairs. Sure he "befriends" Sasuke in the end, but at that point the Uchiha are already dealt with so he never needs to make any tough decisions there.
Meanwhile there are so many characters that want to shake things up and for good reason too, but they're all stopped, maybe after given a soapboax to state their case (in a futile way).
The writing snaps back to ancestor worship, which orientals are all about, and their bloodlines and heritage and legacy and all that mean more than any valid complaint or grievance.
Everyone says what they needed to say, die for their beliefs and then the village and the whole system continues on as before.

>>222618444 (checked)
This guy was always my favorite character. Yeah, kidnapping children and experimenting on them, killing some in the process, is bad and all that, but his powers are so cool.

>>222620276
what do you mean
Madara actually achieved the infinite dream and trapped everyone except Naruto and Sasuke
Villains like Orochimaru, Pain and Obito tried to "change the world" or simply fuck it up but they were stopped like you said. BUT Madara was literally unstoppable and almost unkillable. He was so powerful Kishimoto had to write some ancient aliens bullshit to "defeat" him because the heroes simply couldn't

>>222620185
Osama really? I don't even think they would be fighting.

>>222619325
>Majunior
>Raditz
>Nappa
>Vegeta
>Dr. Gero & 19
>16, 17, 18
>Cell
>Dabura
>Buu
>Super Buu
>Pure Buu
>Beerus
>Golden Freeza
>Black and Zamasu
>Broly
>Gamma 1 & 2
>Cell Max
List of enemies who didn't care about Dragon Balls.

>>222619325
>He's not really a villain, he's a casualty of the system who
Obito doesn't even care about the guy was forced to kill by the system when he was still a "good guy".
He's merely putting on a saviour complex like Nagato to feel better about his terrible actions.

>>222620276
naruto and obito are different characters with different goals
????????????????????

>>222618420
Everyone having a secret boss was a good idea, the problem is Kaguya is the biggest piece of dogshit and every character in the chain proceeding her was a lot more interesting.

>>222619325
>specifically because the real world won't exist after that.
The real world stops existing when you kill yourself too. Much easier than his way.

>>222617916
Sure you do :) you prob weight 260 lmaoo fat nigger faggot

>>222620810
Well my point is that the grievances of "villains" (Obito for example) are irrelevant, no matter how valid they seem, because the main story will always default to the main character (Naruto) having his way, and he will always want to maintain the status quo, become hokage and the village will go on as before doing the exact same shinobi shit.
It's never really about changing any system, maybe just giving it a fresh coat of paint and continuing on. It's the legacy of the mandate of heaven mentality. The "system" is always correct, it's just that the leaders need to be swapped out every now and then, but don't dare challenge the system. Obito wanted a systematic change and that's a no no. Naruto simply wanted to be the fresh coat of paint and then business as usual.

>>222618871
>>222617776
So what would black zetsu have done if kabuto didnt magically find madaras body? Obito seemed content on just doing his own thing after nagato fell through

>>222617776
BASED

>>222621079
Black Zetsu told Kabuto where Madara’s body was, if that wasn’t an option it would likely have made Sasuke the Juubi Jinchuriki.

>>222621000
>grievances
Which are never completely sound.
Pain's was textbook losing the plot.
Obito's was just abstracting spite and revenge with no real forethought into anything else.
But an actual issue is trying to place the burden of revolution on a character not suited for it (Naruto).

>>222619286
hinata could beat anyone who came at her though

>>222620968
Weighing 260 is nothing when you actually lift.

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>ah yes well done, well done indeed shinobi alliance on stopping that giant fucking meteor I pulled out of my ass to nuke you
>HOWEVER

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>>222621450

>>222621450
>kishi: "Future generations are better!"
>Madara over-powers everyone and needs a literal alien to kill him
What did he mean by this?

>>222621715
>madara and hashirama mogging literally everyone
>naruto and sasuke have to get gifted powers by the god of ninjas to not get btfo

>>222621593
Storytime was fun. The current forced daily on that board is so sad in comparison

>>222621771
>The current forced daily
Didn't know about that. That is sad.

>>222617813
>love of your life
He was like 12. The fuck does he know about "love"? Even more pathetic he couldn't move on for the next 2 decades of his life. Aren't these "ninja" supposed to be trained for psychological losses too?

>>222618420
Kaguya was worth it just to see Madarafags get eternally BTFO.

>>222621715
He needed Kabuto’s improvements on Orochimaru and Tobirama’s research to be returned to his prime as an Edo Tensei, and Kabuto gave him a perfected Hashirama cell transplant

>>222621832
only if you were in anbu

>>222621832
the dangers of oneitis is no joke

>>222621832
I could cut Obito some slack if at least Rin liked him back. But no. She confessed her love for Kekashi the moment Obito's "dead" body was completely buried under the rocks.

>>222617911
>significant ninja figure
Nigga that kid was no one. He was just his waifu.

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>>222621937
I could cut your moronic shitpost some slack if you weren't completely and utterly btfo by the author.

>>222617776
That's what the motivations of protagonists in anime are like. They'll let a pinky promise from when they were 6 years old with a girl they haven't seen in 16 years rule their entire lives

>>222617996
>>222620117
I liked the death of Naruto's mentor, the pervert frog Sage I forget the name of. I liked their backstory, it had some heart in there.

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>>222621990
This just proves Rin wasn't worth shit lol. She realized Kakashi was just a depressed chump in the end and went for the mass-murdering terrorist instead.

>>222621990
I don't remember, but was this confirmed to be the "real" Rin or just Obito's psyche comforting himself?

>>222617893
It was still way better than that shitty ass final arc.

>>222622215
It was implied it was the real Rin.

>>222621990
>>222622164
it was obviously his wish-fulfillment fantasy he got after dying

>>222622294
He still came back and gave both eyes and magic god chakra to kakashi

>>222622265
thats just his brain coping with death, no such thing as ninja magic

>>222619286
That's peak Hinata. Who the fuck is gonna touch that? Also, who the fuck is harassing ninjas in Konoha? You've got to have a deathwish to do that shit there.

>>222621832
exactly, like people who are 14 years olds and look at a girl and be like she is the love of my life it's like literally i want breakfast but it's dinner time.
sorry your not a teen anymore and your greatly overestimating the feelings you had as a child.
It's literally nostalgia bait but for crushes.

>>222622320
last act of part 2 is just pure bullshit, you can tell kishi was over it

>34 year old guy who has never had sex, kissed anyone, and really hasn't ever even had a crush because he's been an ugly socially avoidant pathetic loser for his entire life

Haha I wonder who that is haha

>>222622329
And how do you explain him coming back to give his sharingan to Kakashi again?

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>noooo it didn't happen, it's not real WAAAH
Anon, this is getting embarrassing, just take the L.

>>222617776
I honestly wish Tobi just ended up being Madara.
Obito as a character just falls flat simply because his reasoning and goals are muddled.
Plus for 95% of his appearances (as Tobi) he just goofs off which ended up being an act. So the main personality he is known for was bs, which leaves you not knowing what his character is even like.
And once he does reveal who he is he still comes off kinda flat and uninteresting.

Not to mention how much he worked on his entire plan and then turns out his heart is not really in it for the most part and he's easily talked down. This is the same guy btw that wiped Naruto's family.
Basically his level of resolve is inconsistent and erratic.
It was much more amusing thinking it's old man Madara under the mask goofin off since he's so strong he can afford to do so.
Obito jestering up for years for no reason is just lame.

>>222622413
>im from the future and the past and also right now
>but no i shall not help stop kaguya again

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The Uchiha, due to their chakra and their nature, are violent, uncontrollable retards. Yes, this is 100% canon.

>>222617776
>world war
>like a dozen guys fist fighting
Goddamm shinobi up their own asses

>>222622508
He’s just a ghost, I’m pretty sure someone said that. Lingering will is a Otsutsuki clan thing, it’s why Naruto and Sasuke are reincarnated brothers

>>222622564
>Madara hates me, the man who ran his beloved brother through with a rusty blade
>He must be evil!
Tobirama was a complete retard

>>222618444
The charges?
>Multiple instances of child abduction, mutilation, torture and murder
>Forming a militia to wage war on the village
>Murdering the Hokage

The sentence?
>Unsupervised house arrest

Justice has been served.

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>super elite ninjas but they dont actually do anything for most of the show

>>222622602
>reincarnations of indra and asura
>so were madara and hashirama
>tfw 2 reincarnations of each were "alive" at the same time

>>222622628
best tobi was correct precisely because of how madara acted during peace time (by ruining it with a ME ME ME meltdown)

>>222622656
Jobbing to the new jobber villain of the week was a very important job

>>222620276
I always said it would have been much better if Sasuke actually merked the pink hair bitch that one time.
I'm not one of those people that hate her it's just Naruto never really has his ideals properly challenged, I suppose Pain is the closest, but the whole "old mentor" thing, and Pain being just an unknown enemy at the time makes it way cheaper, as well as the fact that it didn't really have anything to do with Naruto or his actions at the time, whereas pinky getting donuted would have been a true realisation of the often mentioned but never shown "tough decisions" malarkey.

>>222622672
He thought Konoha would turn against the Uchiha. Fast forward a few generations and Tobirama’s disciples wanted to kill them all.

>>222622748
because the uchiha are spiritually cloud ninja and never self-reflect to understand why issues arise with them

>>222622779
…according to a retard named Tobirama, who was factually wrong.

>>222617776
i would if i could

>>222622792
No, you fast forward to even itachi understanding and admitting his clan are retards and better off culled

>>222622779
It's because they have a lump in their skulls that makes them mentally unhinged.

>>222622656
No way Itachi killed everyone himself, had to have a few guys in it for kicks

>>222622818
He never did that, Danzo told him either the Uchiha would all be slaughtered by Anbu or Itachi could do it alone and spare Sasuke. At the very end of the series Itachi regrets even doing that. Senjew defenders don’t even know what they’re talking about

>>222622824
Tobirama pulled that out of his ass, Itachi and Shisui disprove it merely by existing

>>222622889
Itachi? The genocidal maniac? Hmmm....

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>>222622889
>Shisui
>the sanest uchiha kills himself
>itachi
>idolized him and decided to kill his whole clan

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>>222622628
Retardedly based. Madara should have stopped crying and gotten over it.

>>222622900
Yes, the genocide that was a mission assigned to him by Tobirama’s biggest fan. With senjews, you lose
>>222622927
You people really have no idea what you’re talking about

>>222622867
>He never did that,
he did, he said peace talks were impossible because his clan wouldn't entertain it

>>222622938
I'm just saying you told Naruto to genocide the Uchiha I don't think he'd have said yes...

>>222622861
Obito was there and killed the actual strong Uchiha. Itachi killed the women and children.

>>222622949
Yeah that’s clearly the exact same thing as saying they’re all retards who should die. Just ignore him explicitly regretting killing all of them at the end of the series

>>222622743
>>222620276
>Naruto suffers from the Harry Potter status quo syndrome
Weird

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>>222621593

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>>222617776
>This meme again
It wasn't about Rin. It was never about Rin. Rin was a symptom of a greater disease: the Shinobi System, a system which groomed children into child soldiers that would steal, pillage, murder, and die for their nation's interests. It was a wicked and fundamentally broken system that demanded you put the collective needs of your nation over your own individuality. And if you dared try to turn your back on it, you were branded a missing nin, which would lead to your own comrades hunting you down and butchering you like a dog.

Obito saw this, and it disgusted him. He saw a neverending cycle of warfare, trauma, slaughter, and the survivors who were left to pick up the pieces.

Thematically, ALL of the villains in Naruto saw this too. Nagato was broken and turned into a monster after the Shinobi trampled on his village and then murdered his peaceful protesters. Itachi, a child, was forced to murder his clan in the name of the greater of his village. Even Madara wanted to tear the Shinobi System asunder because it took his brothers away from him and it also created a neverending meet grinding of child soldiers fighting and dying for the social elite.

>>222622976
I don’t think Harry ever expresses any desire to change the status quo, whereas Naruto cries about Zabuza treating Haku like a tool, bitches that the chunin exams are a proxy war with children’s lives on the line, says he’ll change the Hyuuga clan’s slave policy, and eventually TnJ’d Pain by promising to find peace.

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>>222621715
This fight completely fucked up the balance of "power levels" in Naruto forever. Chakra Gundams and Naruto/Sasuke fighting ayy lmaos on the moon was just the cherry on top.

>>222622976
The proper thing kishi should have done was Naruto growing up to realize hokage was a misguided dream, but i imagine a lot of jap readers and his editors would have had a fit over it.

>>222623026
Obito is full of shit when he claims it’s not about Rin, he became the head ninja of the village that killed her and ran it into the ground, perpetuating the same system you claim he’s opposed to. Then he wiped Konoha out after making an emo bitch trip to Rin’s grave and throwing out the flowers Kakashi left for her.

>>222623026
>It wasn't about Rin. It was never about Rin.

You're huffing Xenon 2 : Megacope

>>222623026
But it was rin that made him snap, where was all this idealism before that?

>>222623026
It's not that it wasn't about Rin. Rin was just the face given to the issue. Nagato also had a face to give to his issue, that of his dead friend. Etc..
Also Obito there is clearly trying to chuuni it up in front of Kakashi so he comes off as more than a simp.

>>222622959
>Itachi killed the women and children.
That's my hero! The coolest guy!

>>222623103
he has a single line about destroying the world with his evil little twelve year old face

>>222623048
Madara vs Hashirama blew my 13 year old mind back when this came out and not in the good way. Even at 13, I was completely and utterly baffled by the implications of that fight and what it meant if Naruto and Sasuke had to surpass these guys.
You mean the Kyuubi who fought all of Konoha to a standstill was just a MOUNT for Madara while he fought Hashirama? The SAME Kyuubi that took the Fourth Hokage giving his life just to STOP it? And now Naruto might have to fight a stronger version of Madara?

>>222617776
Its all senju clans fault

https://youtu.be/FBkTLrOPKmU

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Everything after the Chuunin exams is fucking DOGSHIT. If you think otherwise you're wrong, you were a retarded kid just consuming the slop and didn't know any better, but now that you're an adult look at it objectively you fags.

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>>222623285
You just have to laugh at a certain point. Something like this reads like it's straight from a kid's imagination.
>And then, and then Naruto and Sasuke team up and the Kyuubi gets super Susanoo chakra armor!
Early Naruto fights are still kino though.

>>222617776
What's an actual good motivation to start a world war? If you think about it, doing it because you lost your childhood crush is just as arbitrary as anything else.

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>>222623382
You're retarded and your opinion is dogshit.
1. Pain
2. Save Sasuke
3. Land of Waves
4. Chunin Exams/Konoha Invasion
5. Kakuzu/Hidan

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>>222617776
yes the basis of drama is people who cannot communicate causing problems because they have unresolved trauma.

he just like me frfr

>>222623399
nothing in naruto needed a world war, but getting rid of the daimyo system would have required it, but japs would have to consider it a problem first.

>>222623382
The individual Sound Four fights are good though
>>222623456
Kakuzu willingly letting Naruto kill him and Hidan jobbing to Shikamaru’s sleight of hand abilities is pretty lame. The editor actually rushed the end of that arc which is why it sucks.

>>222623031
Except Naruto changes nothing and forgives everyone involved. While becoming the leader of the system continuing the child soldier program.

>>222618156
Bet you chose the frenzied flame ending faggot.
You would really sacrifice the entire fucking world for the love of your life? (who btw completely rejected you romantically)

>>222623499
naruto affects ninja world globalism ("unity"), even though it's more of a political treaty because the stone and cloud are just doing it to not stand out.

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>this manga meant for children was really good when I was a child reading it but later on when I grew up the writing fell off

>>222621990
try reading the manga you dumb cunt

>>222623456
>pain #1
LOL fucking dipshit kys

>>222623026
>"I-it wasn't about Rin *sniff*"
>Proceeds to have multiple flashbacks about Rin, including a creepy ilusion world with team Minato alive that he shows to Kakashi
>"*sniff* Rin was my light!"
>Obito getting his "happy ending" is Rin reciprocating his feelings beyond the grave rather than the world actually becoming better
Most egregious example of telling but not showing.
Btw Obito was actively contributing to the terrible shinobi world both before AND after Rin died, he's literally just trying to give himself any justification to feel better about it.

>>222623483
I look like that and I say that.

>>222623549
I don’t think it’s technically ‘telling and not showing’ because it’s just the pathetic loser that is Obito trying to convince people he isn’t doing it for Rin. Obito lies all the time.

>>222623534
naruto is impressive, because despite being a supposed brainless shonen manga, it still gets regular 500 post threads with sweaty arguments, decades later.

>>222623456
>>222623382
Actual correct tier list:
1. Land of the Waves Arc
2. Chunni Exams and Chunni Exams Invasion Arc
3. Pain Arc Arc
4. Tsunade Retrieval Arc
5. Obito / Kakashi Gaiden flashback Arc
6. Hidan and Kakuza Arc
7. Everything else
Shippuden / Part 2 was dogshit for the most part imo

>>222622564
When you look at Tobirama's contributions you can technically blame the entire plot of Naruto on him. He invented so much shit, and he mindbroke Madara too.

>>222622564
Uchiggers.

>>222623534
It's unironically true. For the anime, they changed the composer, the choreography took a noticeable step down in quality, and the main character became far more clingy and whiny. For the manga, the pacing became worse, the new characters were boring compared to the OGs (trying to replace Kakashi and Sasuke with Yamato and Sai for example was fucking retarded), and there were some glaringly obvious retcons that made the story worse as a whole. Until finally, we got to the final arc, and it was clear that Kishimoto just didn't give a shit anymore and was just throwing shit at the wall to see what would stick. Kishimoto himself even admitted that he pulled Kaguya out of his ass because he didn't know how to end the manga.

>>222617776
What a chud

>>222623026
High iq post
>>222623065
It'd be like saying WW1 in it's entirety was because of the asssassination of Franz Ferdinand. A completely ignorant midwit take.

>>222623623
A little bit earlier, you can blame it on Madara. Young Hashi and Madara become friends and talk about peace, but when the two families cross paths, madara instantly folds.and defaults to blind clan allegiance. If Hashi weren't such a good person, he could have ended the naruto plotline right there.

>>222623662
See >>222623549

>>222617813
>love of your life
He was 12 and she liked his gloomy friend more. She also got penetrated by him, while Obito just watched.
>>222622651
tbf he paid with his life kinda-ish and then basically saved every non main character by giving madara and 10 tails something to fight
>>222621944
she was briefly a jinchuuriki but the c4 version so I wonder if it even counts

>>222623633
>Kishimoto himself even admitted that he pulled Kaguya out of his ass because he didn't know how to end the manga.
I don’t think this is true because Edo Madara first mentioned her before Obito even became a jinchurki.

>>222618551
>>222618678
>nepobaby chakra from his mom
>nepobaby tailed beast from his dad
he is

Obito making the Mist even worse than it already was served absolutely no purpose to his grand goal btw.
The 3 tails wasn't even one of the earliest bijuus to be collected.
I'm sure it had nothing to do with what they did with Rin!

>>222623662
it’s barely even a war, it was conducted through clones of one guy to obtain 2 specific individuals. Not to mention you didn’t refute anything Obito did

>>222623633
Im just glad he gave Naruto a nice happy ending. For some reason in the 2010s making sad endings for the heroes with them being old felt too normal back then.

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>>222623742
naruto has an actual nepo-clan though, no idea why you'd try to force it so hard with him

>>222623762
and them boruto happened

>>222623762
>Im just glad he gave Naruto a nice happy ending
Boruto undid it. Naruto is canonically a failure of dad who is so distant from his family that he can't even make it home for his children's birthday. Oh, and aliens invade and routinely humiliate Naruto and Sasuke in battle. It gets so bad that Naruto loses the Kyuubi and Sasuke loses his Rinnegan. But the fun doesn't stop there! Naruto adopts a kid who turns evil and then seals Naruto and Hinata away! Oh and Sasuke got infected with a disease, which is slowly turning him into a tree. And this was all done so that Naruto and Sasuke could both be sidelined, so that their children could shine. Truly an ending worthy of two legendary heroes!

>>222623815
>And this was all done so that Naruto and Sasuke could both be sidelined
ironically, what's his name wanted to actually kill naruto and sasuke, but editor-san said no, so he just nerfed them.

>>222623815
>then seals Naruto and Hinata away! Oh and Sasuke got infected with a disease, which is slowly turning him into a tree.
damn had no idea it got even worse

>>222623813
>>222623815
Not canon since Kishimoto doesn't write it. The entire fanbase also collectively ignores it. I've never seen a community do that and I wish more would follow this example.

>>222623800
You posted a character that has trained since the ripe age of 3, who only lost because Naruto's birth advantages were stronger than his.

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>>222623762
>>222623813
>>222623815
>>222623828
>>222623842
>>222623845
Naruto being a bad father is 100% on Kishimoto though.

>>222623848
>claiming inherited biological traits as nepotism, but neji with the strongest eye powers is somehow exempt
>the special clan fighting style perfectly synced with the eye ability doesn't count either
>the clan's high status in the village and extensive resources and trainers don't count
lmao

>>222623845
Kishimoto wrote the epilogue with cloned Uchiha children

>>222623813
>>222623815
Boruto needs to get GT'd already, but Naruto already ended with him existing so there's no point unfortunately.

>>222623874
early boruto was kishi seething about his own personal life and issues with his son

>>222623815
>Oh and Sasuke got infected with a disease, which is slowly turning him into a tree
It's a nice tree, a wonderful tree.

>>222623877
Never said Neji doesn't count as a nepobaby.
Just that Neji has also trained a lot despite that, so Naruto, who hasn't trained that much, should be considered an even bigger nepobaby since he beat Neji.

>>222623886
Boruto is awful but parts of the Fourth Ninja War are worse

>>222623874
The movie used to be canon until the Boruto manga created its own version and it became the main version of that event. So the movie version got replaced by the version in the manga which is already not canon. So all clear.

>>222623800
>>222623877
everyone in naruto is a nepobaby, yes, except for rock lee

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>>222617776

>>222623877
>but neji with the strongest eye powers is somehow exempt
Pfffff

>3/4 living Uchiha were Akatsuki members

>>222623911
And Sakura

>>222623904
>who hasn't trained that much
why do you retards always say this, naruto probably trained harder than everyone except Lee

>>222623883
That's not an epilogue but yes.
>>222623886
>Boruto needs to get GT'd already
It already is. Kishimoto has to keep telling people he's not writing. And TV Tokyo and Bandai already list Naruto and Boruto as separate things even though they combine all the Pokemon series under a single banner.
>>222623907
Wrong. The first 3 arcs of the war shit all over Boruto. And even the worst of 4th war is preferable to Boruto.

>>222623911
>everyone in naruto is a nepobaby, yes, except for rock lee
Minato wasn't a nepo baby.

>>222623929
he’s known for being a prankster who is extremely dumb and has no idea what anyone is talking about, there’s no reason to think he was training instead of playing pranks

>>222623928
She got an asspull power up in the war that was mostly useless.

>>222623911
>>222623970
Oh, and Might Guy
>>222623987
>She got an asspull power up
Not really. It was the same technique that Tsunade had. So it's logical that Sakura would have it as her successor. It just isn't an ability Sakura can spam like Naruto can with his clones because the chakra in her diamond seal is finite and takes years to build up.

>>222623987
How is using the one signature move of her teacher in a series where people do that an asspull? She’s also useless by her nature as a damsel in distress, she’s still one of the strongest ninja on her own merit.

>>222623669
Your argument is rooted in perceived emotion
His argument is rooted in fact

>>222624008
According to the unnecessarily strict definition of nepobaby people are using Might Guy probably doesn’t count because his father taught him the Eight Gates

>>222623761
Literally what the fuck are you talking about?
The argument was about Obito's motives and what the War cascaded into. Absolutely nothing to do with how he carried out his plans.

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>>222621990
bodied the slandering fool

>>222623898
The best, even.

>>222624008
>>222624012
We did not know she was saving up for it. It was an asspull because their was no prior indication. Same with Kakashi getting duel MS sharingan and sussano (but at least that was cooler and more useful). It also entirely for nothing since Naruto (when he had the Sun seal) temporarily became the best healer in the series when he gave Kakashi a new eye and saved Guy from the gate of Death of Death. Even Sasuke via his Rinnegan has a healing ability with the King of Hell.

>>222624058
All you did was mention WW1, you’re not refuting that Obito‘s actions don’t align with what you claim his motive to be

>>222623026
Why didn't he commit to these supposed strong feelings on any of the missions where he was killing people?

>>222624106
Based illiterate retard
See >>222623026
Obito did everything within his power to achieve his tsukuyomi.
You haven't cited any of Obito's actions that make you believe the entire fucking War was about Rin.
She's not Helen of Troy nigger, it isn't that deep.

>>222623929
You think Naruto, who wasn't even at the academy before his 6th birthday, trained more than Neji?

>>222624032
Obito and the Uchiha in general are all emotional retards.

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>>222624206
>trained more than Neji?
yeah i do

>>222624188
See>>222623065
The post you completely glossed over. Everything he did in Kirigakure contradicts obito being disgusted by the system. He perpetuated it. He continued it, and made it even worse. That had nothing to do with obtaining the Biju and enacting Infinite Tsukoyomi.

Naruto is a practical guy not a nerdy student! Except for that one time where had like 5 books on his head and reading some ninjutsu book

>>222624217
Dirty senjew

>>222624224
>Scene that had nothing to do with his victory over Neji
Btw, this is him literally doing speedrunner hackery to learn a technique that would've taken him 20 years otherwise, which would not even be possible if he didn't already have tons of chakra from Kurama.
Some self made man he is.

>>222624262
>Btw, this is him literally doing speedrunner hackery
clones are a basic skill every ninja can use!
IQ diff

>>222624245
Obito blaming Kakashi for Rin's death rather than the system that he's supposedly against which put her on that suicide mission proves he's in fact an emotional retard.

>>222624280
Regular clones and shadow clones are different techniques speedreader.
A regular shinobi could literally die trying to do what Naruto did.

>>222624230
He's entire shtick is that he's petty and hung up over Rin, which is why his resolve wavers at the finish line. His heart is not in it and it becomes clear he was just seething and being a cunt. Once put into place and slapped silly he comes to and realizes he's been a bitch and quickly switches sides.

Everything bad he has done was to prove to himself he's tough, but he isn't. He's a weepy emo guy and not made of the same stuff as Itachi or Madara.

>>222623928
she is a literal nepobaby who used her connections with naruto to get training from tsunade
>>222623970
>>222624008
fine

>>222624230
>Everything he did in Kiragakure was actually for Rin or something
It's fine to disagree with Obito's solutions, but to desperately make delusional claims to try and support your retarded point is completely nonsensical.
You have yet to provide anything Obito did that supports your thesis

>>222624291
Rin killed herself and Obito said he didn’t blame Kakashi, but his brand of shit is exceptional even for an Uchiha. Most of them just died.

>>222624324
Her parents aren’t anyone of note and she just asked for training, you’re really reaching

>>222624309
>Regular clones and shadow clones are different techniques speedreader.
they still follow the same rules you can use to train faster.
>A regular shinobi could literally die trying to do what Naruto did.
just further proves how committed naruto was over everyone else.

>>222624353
what do you think a nepobaby is? someone with nepotistic connections

>>222624328
Not what I said. You claim he’s opposed to a system he maintained.

>>222624372
it was actually less connections, and sakura just being a woman.

>>222624334
>He didn't blame Kakashi
He literally said Kakashi let Rin die.
>>222624328
Absolutely nothing Obito has done towards Kiri makes any sense beyond being his petty revenge, the mist being worse didn't contribute at all to his plan nor did it benefit him at all.

>>222624376
He "maintained the system" because it was only a means to an end. In his mind he's doing stuff to facilitate his world hypnosis plan, so everything is allowed to bring that about.

>Uhm. Obito actually doesn't oppose the system because.. He drank water!! That means he's pro-establishment xdd
Literally (You)

>>222624372
If being Naruto’s teammate was an avenue to such things why did she even have to ask?

>>222624334
>Obito said he didn’t blame Kakashi,
he screeched because kakashi broke his promise to protect her (to him). No idea why you're just saying inflammatory shit like this.

>>222624356
>they still follow the same rules you can use to train faster.
They don't, nowhere in the manga implies this.
>just further proves how committed naruto was over everyone else.
What commitment? Naruto can spam a thousand clones for free with no drawbacks.

>>222617776
he's literally me...

>>222624393
He had the jinchurki of the three tails under his control for years and let it escape, it had nothing to do with Tsuki no me.

>>222624399
see >>222624136

>>222624389
>>222624404
naruto got her foot in the door with an introduction

>>222624404
Because Kishimoto needed to give her something since he wasn't gonna write her into the overarching plot.

>>222624407
>Naruto can spam a thousand clones for free with no drawbacks.
Naruto can exhaust his chakra like everyone else and die too, but in his case, if he loses too much, he can go berserk and either get killed or hurt himself, so it's even worse for him!

>>222620046
>infinite teriyaki
kek

>>222624449
>he can go berserk and either get killed or hurt himself, so it's even worse for him!
Wasn't an issue in part 1 when he spammed clones.
Also wasn't an issue in part 2 because Yamato was there to prevent anything from happening.

>>222624477
>Wasn't an issue in part 1 when he spammed clones.
he gravely injured jiraiya and almost killed yamato and sakura several times.

The nail to Obito's coffin is that he didn't try to recruit anyone to assist in his dream world quest, surely if his goal was truly just and for the good of the population then he could get himself a considerable amount of good people to help him, no?

>>222624407
>no drawbacks.
If he gets too angry he literally goes berserk. Kurama almost escaped when Pain attacked and Yamato was leagues away.

Also he wasn't able to spam KCM1 because he and Kurama were on bad terms so had to switch to sage mode during the early/mid parts of the war.

>>222624491
That's not in part 1 you retard.
Also
>Several times
You mean once.

>>222624512
My brother in christ, what does this have to do with his fight with Neji?

>>222624515
well to conclude this retarded argument:
stop pretending naruto didn't train or work hard, this is a tired and lame argument from Lee/neji fags

>>222624533
I said Naruto didn't work as hard as Neji at the time (this is FACTUAL btw).
Not that he didn't work at all, dumbass.

>>222624504
that’s how he got Kisame. I can’t remember if it’s in the manga or just filler but him and Zetsu do recruit various Akatsuki by mentioning the perfect world they’re going to make

>>222624551
ah yes, Kisame, the shining beacon of morality who will fix the ninja world

>>222624524
I got off track.

Naruto can exhaust himself (we see him tired when he was learning the mutli-shadow clone jutsu). It just takes longer for him due to the loads of chakra he has. He gets tired later in the series too. So really Neji just got unlucky that he was fighting a tank with a backup battery.

>>222624566
This but unironically

>>222624568
Neji was also arrogant, which was the entire reason he lost the chuunin exam fight. Neji fags always miss the entire point of it. (also no idea why anon is so fixated on that one thing)

>>222617801
You mean WWII?
Serbia > Your childhood crush > Jews

>>222624566
At least he was loyal to the Akatsuki and showed great respect to Pain and Obito

i'd unironically nuke the planet if half the shit that happened to obito happened to me

>>222617776
kakashi's property nonetheless

>>222624618
He was a hypocrite as well and deserved to get his shit rocked.

>>222623985
There is entire chapters dedicated to Naruto training at multiple times throughout the story. He develops many different training programs each different from the last and never stops until the Ninja War. He learns the hardest and most difficult to control techniques and even trains to expand them into entire new arts.

war arc is so terrible in terms of pacing

seems like naruto learns to control the kyubi powers in the morning and is super saiyan 11 at night

>>222624639
Lmao me too

>>222624566
did nothing wrong and he was a good friend

>>222624672
he's just hard carried by his near infinite chakra reserves.
but even then it doesn't matter since he's the descendant of asura so it was always destined for him and sasuke to fight.
it's all destiny shit

>>222624708
>near infinite chakra reserves.
He only got that because of Minato sealing the nine tails in Naruto. We learn and see later on that Naruto didn't get anything from his mom power wise.

>>222624566
He was a member of Akatsuki and in this village he was a hero, believe ir.

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>>222624802