Snyder had the right idea.
He treated the characters and mythology with reverence and respect. We had it so good.

>it's the same hogwash where the characters point out how stupid and silly and weird everything is and nothing matters
I don't remember anything like that. The script is freely available online, could you post the parts where you think this happens?

>>222663609
not him but the second I saw the feminist lois I turned it off

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>>222663565
I appreciate Snyder for that man, why cant' we have the best of both worlds? The comic book/cartoony suits, concepts and colors, you know, all that stuff but they actually treat the world and the characters with sincerity and gravity? Those DCAU movies had Batman in trunks and all that jazz and yet the story with Red Hood was dark and serious and 100% better than any live-action movie. It had Amazo in the same movie as Jason throwing a bag of decapitated mob boss heads on a table to intimidate their lackeys.

All in all, live-action is a failed medium and animation/comics are better, it seems. I'm done giving this medium a chance. Fuck it.
>>222663609
You are being purposefully playing dumb to push your narrative because you're biased for whatever insane reason people like you are the way that you are.

Ignored.

>>222663609
>I see Superman with a flying dog, a weird squiggle man and a green baby
>What?
that's Mr. Terrific and Lois in the pocket universe
Just one moment of many.
>wow this thing is so whacky and stupid and silly hahaha what? what the hell? hahaha

>>222663626
Lois has been a feminist since the 60s at least

>>222663626
>>222663675
Lois was always an unbearable feminist bitch. Clark being a reporter on its own is an insane thing to still be used in stories. He should be a farmer blue collar guy who is Superman because he's a normal guy who looks out for others not some moral bullshit about le truth and le justice. His wife should be Lana Lang, his Smallville sweetheart. Man, DC Is so retarded.

Seriously, this movie is dumb beyond words.

The movie opens by telling us that metahumans, gods, and monsters have been around for three centuries, yet not a single government, institution, or person behaves like that’s reality. The Justice Gang, supposedly the planet’s only superhero team, is still arguing over their name as if they just met last week. There are no treaties on superhuman jurisdiction, no military protocols, no laws for handling beings who could wipe out continents, nothing.

This lack of logic hits hard in the first big Metropolis fight, when the Hammer of Boravia, a foreign-backed metahuman, attacks Metropolis, an American city after Superman meddles in an overseas war. Instead of a national alert, military response, or even satellite reconnaissance, the U.S. government does absolutely nothing, remaining totally passive

Then, after leveling part of the city and beating up Superman, the Hammer casually flies a few miles out to a LexCorp camp with a flag over an interdimensional portal. Even if the facility relies on cloaking technology, a foreign terrorist visibly flew directly to that precise perimeter and vanished, but somehow in this world with three centuries of superhuman warfare, no radar, spy agency, or reporter bothers to track him or investigate the fortress-like corporate base sitting right outside the city.

What the fuck kind of world-building is that?

>>222663675
not in the movies

>>222663663
Now we are getting somewhere. Your demand is that no character ever express surprise, shock or confusion, not even if they are, for example, a civilian abruptly thrust into a superhero adventure.

This version of Lex Luthor might be the worst version yet. He’s introduced as an all-powerful demigod who can recreate the Big Bang in a mega-collider, whip up pocket universes on demand, navigate antiproton rivers, spawn black holes, and mass-produce superhumans at will. He already has the tech and the clone to take down Superman in secret.

Instead of quietly ending Superman, Lex cooks up an absurdly overcomplicated Dr. Evil-style plot: teaming up with a foreign dictator, staging an international invasion, running bot farms with trained monkeys to sway public opinion, and unleashing a giant monster in Metropolis. All of this lawbreaking is just to create a flimsy legal excuse so the government will give him official authority to imprison Superman.

Lex breaks every law in existence just to gain the permission of the law. If a single element of this sprawling conspiracy leaked, he would spend the rest of his life in prison for treason and domestic terrorism, which is exactly what happens in the end. The movie expects us to believe that a man who bends cosmic forces and crafts alternate dimensions is somehow helpless without a DOJ warrant. So retarded. There wasn't any need of any of that dumb shit.

The more i think about the movie's plot, the worse it gets.

Lex invasion of the Fortress of Solitude is pure plot convenience. The Fortress is supposedly the pinnacle of advanced alien civilization, yet it possesses no exterior sensors, no automated defense grid, and no perimeter alarms. Nothing.

Lex arrives with absolute confidence because he brought Ultraman, knowing that having a clone with Superman’s DNA would trick the Fortress into revealing itself. Yet Lex had only discovered the existence and location of the Fortress minutes beforehand. Logically, he should have had no understanding of Kryptonian architecture, security protocols, or genetic lock systems.

Once inside, he conveniently has the Engineer, whose nanotech is magically capable of syncing with an unknown alien OS, deciphering, and repairing a file the Fortress' own Kryptonian robots couldn’t fix in thirty years.
To make the theft as effortless as possible, the caretaker robot decides to play Jor-El’s corrupted message unprompted to soothe an absent master who had already flown away. Lex did not even know the message existed, yet by sheer coincidence, he stumbles upon the exact piece of evidence needed to ruin Superman's reputation in one afternoon. To cap off the absurdity, Earth linguists and forensic analysts manage to fact-check this never-before-seen alien language overnight with zero reference material, just in time for the morning news cycle. All so the public can turn against Superman at the drop of a hate, this after Superman spent 3 years being the world's most popular hero.

>>222663713
Gunn quite literally wrote the script for this movie over a weekend, at best. Given the workload he had setting up that bullshit studio, he couldn't afford any more time. The plot can literally be described in one short paragraph, that's how thin and shallow it is. He, rightly, thought that goycattle would eat it up anyway.
>>222663743
Again, you are playing dumb. Kindly, die.

The movie just keeps on patching its own holes with lazy coincidences that shred any sense of logic.

When Superman is trapped in Lex’s pocket dimension, Mister Terrific just happens to find him because he’d secretly injected GPS nanobots into Superman’s bloodstream without permission. This gag makes Lex look incompetent. He has mastered advanced nanotechnology to the point of creating the Engineer, yet his ultra-high-tech secret facility somehow fails to scan the captive Superman for tracking devices upon entering the most secure pocket prison in existence. Remember, he sold his pocket prison on its excellency.

The prison setup itself is pure stupidity. Lex locks Superman in a cell directly alongside Metamorpho, who possesses the rare ability to synthesize everything, from kryptonite to also a miniature yellow sun capable of recharging Superman's depleted powers. To ensure Metamorpho has every reason to mutiny, Lex keeps the man's baby hostage in the cell immediately across the corridor in plain sight and then ruthlessly kills a jeet in front of them. Lex essentially builds Superman’s escape team, give them the motivation to do so, and provides the escape mechanism, then walks out of the room.

Then there's this, during the big battle after the escape while they're in the orbite trying to kill Superman, the Engineer coats Superman in dense nanite fluid to suffocate him in the upper atmosphere. By sheer, blind coincidence, this exact layer of nanotech ends up shielding Superman from extreme friction, atmospheric re-entry, and fatal fall damage, saving his life from the very fall Lex's minions planned.

And people praise this shit. Everything sucks.

It gets even more absurd. The downfall of Lex Luthor’s massive empire is one of the most laughable story endings in recent memory. The richest and most intelligent man in the world is not taken down through investigative journalism, governmental intelligence, or tactical brilliance. He is destroyed because his vapid girlfriend takes selfies in his high-security lair. This is why Lex brings her together with him in every scene.

Lex openly displays top-secret invasion blueprints, financial agreements with foreign dictators, and classified territorial maps pinned to the walls of his headquarters, while allowing an untrusted girlfriend he doesn't care about to wander the facility taking photos. She texts these selfies to Jimmy Olsen, and the entire global conspiracy unravels because a supposed super-genius practiced worse operational security than an average teenager. I don't know if this is some dumb takedown of Elon Musk or what. I hope that it is, because it is the only way to explain this level of character's retardation.

>>222663565
Ultimately it’s for kids. Kids don’t need your ironic meta commentary

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>>222663493
The entire point of making super hero movies was seeing them in the real world and NOT as comics, which is why James Gunn is actually a fucking inbred retarded piece of garbage

I fucking hated the movie conclusion. It is forced and unearned

The film treats the revelation of Superman’s Kryptonian heritage as its emotional centerpiece, but the writing robs it of any real tension. The so-called uncorrupted half of Jor-El’s message tells Superman rule the Earth as a despot, eradicate all resistance, and breed an intergalactic harem. By turning his biological parents into over-the-top space villains, the story sidesteps any deeper philosophical conflict. There’s no real debate between human freedom and benevolent dictatorship, just the choice between staying a decent person or becoming a galactic monster. Choosing basic decency requires zero soul-searching, zero struggle, and zero character growth.

This makes the later Jonathan Kent scene feel empty. Clark is a thirty-year-old man who’s lived on Earth his whole life, yet apparently needs his aging adoptive dad, that he ignored throughout the movie until their interaction became convenient, to explain that he doesn’t have to enslave humanity just because a hologram told him to. Of course he doesn't.

In the final confrontation, Superman delivers an impassioned speech declaring that his humanity and his ability to stumble and make mistakes are his greatest assets. Yet at no point in the entire runtime did Superman make a single consequential mistake or face a moment of true moral failure. He was right from the opening scene, right through the middle, and right at the end. He didn't even to think very hard about choosing the obvious outcome that Jor-El complicated message brought.

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>>>222663764
Good posts, anon, also one more complaint I'll add is that Gunn bases Ultraman's design off Doomsday's signature containment suit down to the goggles and yet he turns out to be neither Doosmday nor Bizarro. When it being Doomsday would add stakes. I wish I could murder him with my own two hands.

Also James Gunn’s Superman keeps undercutting its own big message with clashing tones and immature, cynical humor. It talks a big game about empathy, kindness, and decency, but the story is driven by a flippant attitude toward life and a fixation on cheap, edgy jokes.

The worst example comes when Superman faces Ultraman, who's supposed to be flawed genetic clone made by Luthor from his stolen DNA and who's should be a victim of circumstances. There’s no pause to acknowledge the tragic reality of this twisted brother, no attempt to reach whatever humanity might be in him, and no sign of inner conflict about taking him down. Instead, Superman casually tosses him into a black hole, essentially executing him without hesitation. The moment doesn’t land emotionally because the film instantly cuts to breezy sitcom banter. When Mister Terrific quips about doing everything, which is true, Superman just cracks that he was busy doing "important work," turning a brutal kill into a workplace punchline.

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>>222663493
>Gets kicked in the nuts
>Makes cuckface
It's a humiliation ritual for real fans

>>222663826
That ending is INSANE. He ignores Pa and Ma Kent the entire movie, sees them for two short scenes, then he's like I LOVE YOU YOU'RE MY REAL PARENTS despite treating them as nobodies for the rest of the movie while playing home movies to self-aggrandize himself while some quirky indie pop song plays.

What insane narcissistic garbage. Gunn is a genuine piece of shit human being that should be murdered. Whoever does it is a hero.

This cynicism infects the entire superhero team, actively dismantling the idea that Superman represents an inspiring moral ideal. The corporate-backed Justice Gang does not view Superman as a beacon of hope or a standard to aspire toward. They treat him like an insufferable, naive Boy Scout whose moral compass is an obstacle to slick branding and corporate synergy. Early on, Superman argues for taking down the rampaging kaiju without killing it, but the team slaughters the creature without hesitation, and the film never calls it out as wrong.

In fact, the climax enthusiastically endorses it. Hawkgirl corners a disarmed, defeated foreign dictator, delivers a cold one-liner, declares she isn’t Superman, and kills him in cold blood. Instead of framing this extrajudicial execution as a disturbing betrayal of Superman’s ideals, the scene plays like a triumphant, fist-pumping moment. The story claims Superman’s gentle spirit inspires the world, yet shows corporate mercenaries committing blatant war crimes as something cool and cathartic.

Even the family pet gets dragged into this mean-spirited tone. Krypto, once the loyal and noble companion of classic DC lore, is reimagined as an erratic, aggressive menace who snaps at ankles, terrorizes farm animals, and mauls enemies for cheap laughs. When everything, from the hero to the dog, is steeped in sneering irony and violent shortcuts, the movie’s heartfelt speeches about vulnerability and goodness feel hollow. You can’t convincingly preach wholesome heroism while resolving every conflict through unrepentant slaughter, casual cruelty, and smug quips over fresh graves.

Honestly, this movie is a complete narrative mess from start to finish. It’s terrible, and I just don’t get how anyone could enjoy it.

>>222663858
Despite him ignoring them, when he desperately needed help, they were there. They helped him physically, emotionally and spiritually. They are good parents, and Clark knows it.

Superman 2025 is fucking great and I'm tired of people pretending it isn't just because Supergirl was mid

>>222663884
>>222663858
The core issue with how the film handles the Kents is that Clark treats his human upbringing like an emotional contingency plan. From the very beginning, his superhero identity is anchored almost exclusively to Krypton. He retreats to an alien fortress, relies on Kryptonian automatons for validation, obsesses over a broken space transmission, and surrounds himself entirely with the relics of a dead planet.

Meanwhile, the people who actually clothed, protected, and raised him for thirty years are treated as an afterthought. Their introduction in the first act is reduced to a brief phone call where they practically have to beg him not to be a stranger because he barely makes time for them. He does not actively confide in them, he does not visit them, and he does not draw upon their guidance in his daily life.

He only heads back to Kansas once the idealized fantasy of his biological bloodline falls apart. When Jor-El's message is revealed to be a tyrannical conquest decree, Clark suddenly remembers he has adoptive parents on a farm who will comfort him unconditionally. The Kents are not treated as the foundational pillars of his morality throughout the story. They are used as a fallback option when his alien heritage disappoints him.

The ending exposes just how transactional this dynamic is. Having the Fortress robot swap out Jor-El's corrupted speech for home videos of the Kents is meant to feel heartwarming, but it actually highlights the problem. Clark only embraces the people who raised him as a consolation prize after his Kryptonian legacy fails him, reducing thirty years of parental love to a replacement soothing tape.

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>>222663847
this will finally open the door to Ow my Balls getting greenlit

>>222663493
Lex invented an anti-Superman martial art that is unstoppable but didn't teach it to the Engineer chick who is the only person in the movie capable of killing Superman.

>>222663884
No, Lois took him there (how and why she would do that is obviously never explained) and then he just had some bullshit talk with the dad and now he's all like I HATE MY REAL PARENTS MY EARTH PARENTS ARE MY PARENTS NOW. It's fucking STUPID. There's no thematic consistency or setup. You're an evil idiot trying to gaslight other people.
>222663915
Ignore this psychotic, everyone. He will be raped and murdered in the gutter as he deserves. Alone and afraid. No one to remember him.

It was dumb easily digested comic movie which I liked but I think it's because I'm biased for Supes. If you go in wanting to see a serious heavy Superman movie then you'll be disappointed but if you treat it like a silver age random comic issue you buy on the way home to read on the bus then it's enjoyable.

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>>222663915
Is it really though? what did it do that was so good?

>>222663775
Motherfucker everyone praised the sincerity. That was a thing that happened. If you complain about the ironic detachment people like me are going to question it. This isn't a safe space for your weird cult to be able to gaslight eachother

>>222663828
>Waaaaah I was briefly surprised by a plot, save me leakers!

>>222663565
Snyder can direct but he can't tell a story for shit and takes himself wayyyy too seriously

>>222663964
You braindead ignorant FUCK, it's NOT like a Silver Age Superman comic or whatever regurgitated insanity you're parroting. It's a James Gunn piece of goyslop. Idiot.
>just turn your brain off bro it's le easily digestable goyslop just stop being negative
>i'm le biased for superman but know fuck all about supes and spread lies and insanity
If I could kill you and everyone like you, I would. God i fucking would.
>>222663981
You are insane and will be killed in the future just like you deserve. Lying scum.

>>222663626
Way to out yourself as a secondary

I've yet to rewatch it even though I liked it cause I hate the Jor-El change so much.
And the fact they not only double downed on it in Supergirl but also made his line of thinking an outlier amongst kryptonians pisses me off even more.

I hope the DCU dies for that reason alone.

>>222663964
>if you treat it with the standards of a burnout retarded boomer on xanax who will drool to anything colorful then it's good
ok

>>222663713
>>222663746
>>222663764
>>222663780
>>222663792
>>222663826
>>222663844
>>222663863
>>222663933
Excellent posts.

>>222664000
Most normal snyder fan

>>222663969
>Unapologetically comic book, the world isn't afraid to get weird and citizens naturally treat it as the norm
>Great casting
>Bright vibrant colors, no more of that filtered muted shit
>Allows several heroes to exist simultaneously so the world feels lived in, and not completely "Where were these guys when X happened?"
>Doesn't waste time rehashing an origin we all know
>Musical score was good

It's a genuine good Superman experience for people familiar with the material. Perhaps you don't feel the same, which is fine. I'm just tired of the dogpiling and the retroactive "um ackually" bullshit because Supergirl bombed. And yes it deserved to bomb because they basically removed everything good from the book they pulled from, while also missing the point of both it and Kara.

>>222663947
The combat mechanics in that fight are pure comedy once you break down the chain of command. Lex watches a screen, shouts a move code into a microphone, a room full of technicians types it into a console, the signal transmits to a headset, and an imperfect, mentally slow clone has to hear the number, process it, and physically throw the punch.

Superman is supposed to have reaction times faster than a speeding bullet, yet he somehow gets pummeled by an enemy operating on a five-step dial-up delay. A single unpredictable sidestep from Clark would cause Lex's entire sequential playbook to desync, but instead Superman just flies face-first into the fists like a training dummy.

The sheer laziness is that the movie already had the perfect tool to make this work. Lex literally built the Engineer, an operative with nanotech infused directly into her bloodstream who could receive digital data and execute algorithmic counters at the speed of thought. Instead, the film gives the remote-control gimmick to a slow-witted clone waiting on voice commands over a radio, turning what should be a high-speed clash of titans into a painfully laggy turn-based fight that is laughable bad to watch.

>>222663794
>kids only deserve slop

>>222663809
Lmfao

>>222663981
what the fuck are you saying nigger no just no

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>>222664060
>Unapologetically comic book
it's not a comic book
>Great casting
lol
>muh colors
it's not a comic book
>extended universe MCU wannabe slop
it has never worked so why???
>realizes it is the third or fourth reboot and just does stuff
why can't they do this with the other superman?
>good music
yeah I guess

I actually don't care about supergirl at all, I just think rebooting this again was absolutely psychotic especially when they aren't even connected to the new batman movies

>>222663933
>Superman needs more Kentslop
No, the problem is that they're not dead and they made Jor-El a psycho.

>>222664060
Nobody is changing their mind because of supergirl
We hated it then and we hate it now

>>222664073
This shit can’t be real
I didn’t make it this far

>>222664060
>Unapologetically comic book, the world isn't afraid to get weird and citizens naturally treat it as the norm
Relying on comic book shorthand to excuse fundamentally broken writing does not make a movie unapologetically comic book. It just makes it lazy.

The idea that citizens treating absurd events as normal makes the world feel lived in is completely backward. The movie uses an appeal to normalcy as a cheap substitute for actual worldbuilding. Instead of showing how society has adapted to three centuries of metahumans, the script just has regular civilians react with unnatural apathy. You have bystanders calmly gazing out glass windows at a giant kaiju that supposedly materialized out of nowhere, random citizens offering casual geopolitical commentary right after a foreign terrorist levels city blocks, and a woman casually looting a pet store turtle during a mandatory evacuation while reality itself collapses. That is not a lived-in universe, it is an artificial world where background characters have no survival instincts.

>Allows several heroes to exist simultaneously so the world feels lived in, and not completely "Where were these guys when X happened?"
Claiming this film avoids the classic superhero absence problem is equally blind. The movie suffers from the exact same issue in its worst form. When the Hammer of Boravia attacks Metropolis, not a single other metahuman in the country shows up to defend the city. When an interdimensional rift threatens to swallow the entire planet, the only beings in existence who respond are three corporate mascots. Three hundred years of metahuman history are supposedly active, yet nobody else on Earth exists unless the script needs them for a specific set piece.

>>222664000
Nope

>>222664000
>it's NOT like a Silver Age Superman comic
It would have been better if it was.

Superman 2025 was good but what pushed it into the great territory was all the salty tears that it keeps creating.

>>222664060
>Doesn't waste time rehashing an origin we all know
Skipping an origin story is fine, but skipping character establishment is fatal. Saying this film is for people familiar with the material is just an admission that the script refuses to do its own heavy lifting. A standalone cinematic universe cannot rely on outside comic knowledge to explain character motivations. In this film, Superman is good simply because he is Superman in the comics, and Lex is petty simply because he is Lex in the comics. Dropping the audience into the middle of a story without proper foundation forces the movie to constantly rely on clunky, spoon-fed exposition dumps to explain basic relationships and dynamics that were never organically built on screen. Something this movie is plagued with.

>Musical score was good
Praising the musical score also ignores how repetitive and manipulative the sound design really is. The romance track is the exact same unvaried cue repeated every single time Clark and Lois share a scene, functioning with all the subtlety of a soap opera sting. Outside of that, the film leans entirely on licensed pop-rock needle-drops to artificially inject emotional energy.

>It's a genuine good Superman experience for people familiar with the material
The claim that this film is faithful or unapologetically comic book falls apart the moment you look at the liberties it actually takes with the source material. The script repeatedly discards foundational lore whenever it needs a cheap gag or a plot shortcut. Krypto is stripped of his classic history as Clark’s faithful dog from Krypton and relegated to being Supergirl’s unruly pet dropped off like a burden. Jor-El and Lara are inexplicably rewritten into cartoonish space tyrants who command their son to conquer Earth and breed a harem. Defenders cannot hide behind the comic book excuse to justify lazy storytelling when the movie itself treats the actual comics as disposable whenever a punchline is within reach.

>>222663809
Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies are actually a really good example of taking the lore at face-value and making something cool with it.

>>222664182
Pretentious, fake nerd. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/18th_Century

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>>222664287
I don't even know what point you're trying to make.

>>222663847
>That one Batman fanfilm where he's tortured after having his balls tazed

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>>222663565
> He treated the characters and mythology with reverence and respect.

>>222663844
>Also James Gunn’s Superman keeps undercutting its own big message with clashing tones and immature, cynical humor. It talks a big game about empathy, kindness, and decency, but the story is driven by a flippant attitude toward life and a fixation on cheap, edgy jokes.
Superman 2025 is basically Superman vs. The Elite, if it ended with Superman deciding that maybe the Elite aren't actually that bad since one of them summarily executed a Hungry Santa working for LL.

>>222664247
>Jor-El and Lara are inexplicably rewritten into cartoonish space tyrants who command their son to conquer Earth and breed a harem.
A) Kryptonians being assholes isn't a new concept, and B) given their comic book history movie Jor-El was a scientist desperate to save his species. They're not tyrants, they legit thought they were doing a primitive race a favor

>>222664309
Blubbering about how society should be totally different when I instantly knew the 300 years line was about shit like Tomahawk and Miss Liberty, who are not Superman level to say the least.

>>222664355
It’s going to be explained with the Zod movie that the only way Jor El would be allowed to send a space ship with his son would be as a conqueror. That part of the message got corrupted by Jor El as he never intended for that message to be heard.

>>222664355
>A) Kryptonians being assholes isn't a new concept
Superman's parents being assholes is a bad idea whether it's new or not.
>They're not tyrants, they legit thought they were doing a primitive race a favor
What do his justifications matter? It's still bad.

>>222664355
Even in John Byrne's post-Crisis reboot, where Kryptonians were written at their most sterile, detached, and arrogant, Jor-El and Lara were never genocidal warlords commanding their son to enslave an alien population and breed a captive harem.

Calling it a desperate scientist doing a primitive race a favor completely ignores what the movie actually presents. The restored message explicitly orders Superman to rule without mercy, wipe out all resistance, and take women to ensure Kryptonian dominance. That is not misguided paternal altruism or detached scientific preservation, that is textbook space fascism.

The story itself makes no room for nuance or benevolent intent. Clark, the public, every hero, and even Lex Luthor in the movie treat the message as an abhorrent, irredeemable mandate of conquest. If there were any doubt about how the filmmakers intended them to be viewed, the Supergirl movie doubles down on it by showing that Kara's own parents hesitated to send her to Earth precisely because they knew how deranged Jor-El and Lara were and what kind of tyrannical mission they engineered for their son.

You cannot spin cartoonish despotism into comic accuracy when the mainline comics never went anywhere near that territory and the DCU itself explicitly frames Clark's birth parents as galactic monsters.

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>>222663493
Good morning saar

Thank for doing the needful for Gunn!!

>>222663565
Too bad they were infernally boring and looked like ass.

>>222664390
The criticism was never that metahumans existing for three hundred years is an impossible concept. The problem is that the film fails at creating a beliavable world.

If you want to see how to actually write a lived-in superhuman society, look at anime like My Hero Academia or Tiger & Bunny. In My Hero Academia, a few generations of superpowers completely reshaped civilization. Laws were rewritten to govern quirk usage in public, a standardized state-licensing system was created, specialized academies were founded, and law enforcement built clear jurisdictions around hero intervention. In Tiger & Bunny, the presence of superpowered individuals over several decades naturally evolved into an organized, corporate-sponsored league with broadcasting rights, strict liability rules, and formal employment contracts. Both worlds feel authentic because their legal systems, economies, and daily civilian routines reflect the passage of time.

In this movie, despite three full centuries of metahuman presence, the world operates like the concept was invented last week. Pundits and reporters earnestly debate whether metahumans should intervene in foreign conflicts as if that exact dilemma would not have been litigated, regulated, and codified during the 19th century. The United States government has zero defense grids, zero international treaties, and zero standard protocols for a hostile superhuman assault on an American city. Even the corporate-backed Justice Gang behaves like an amateur startup that cannot even settle on a team name or operational structure, rather than an established facet of an industry with centuries of precedent.

Citing obscure colonial comic characters does not excuse the movie's complete lack of internal logic. If a story establishes three hundred years of superhuman history, society needs to show the systems, laws, and infrastructure built around that reality, instead of treating every basic superhuman interaction like uncharted territory.

>>222664603
They could have done the same basic plot but with Jor-El having a more understandable motivation. After all he saw his own planet die because they wouldn't listen to the truth, what would he have done if he had Clark's powers? Him exhorting Clark to rule the Earth to save it from some human caused catastrophe would be a real conflict for Clark because he would have to wonder if Jor-El is right.

>>222663493
Sorry the superior movie about a red and blue wearing superhero did two billion while this one flopped

>>222664717
Have you noticed that almost no one on this website posts in walls of text the way you do? Anyway, the idea that Superman is a new kind of meta that's way more powerful than the (public) ones from before is a repeated idea in DC media.

>>222664720
A genuine moral dilemma requires two opposing ideas that both carry some philosophical weight. If Jor-El had warned Clark about the arrogance, political stagnation, and self-inflicted extinction of Krypton, urging him to become a firm, benevolent protector so Earth wouldn't suffer the same fate, Clark would actually have something meaningful to struggle with. It would force him to ask whether using his godlike power to enforce global peace is a moral obligation or a dangerous overreach, directly testing the values the Kents instilled in him against the dying plea of his biological father.

Instead, the movie reduces Jor-El’s message to blatant, cartoonish tyranny. When the mandate is literally to conquer a weaker species, slaughter anyone who resists, and build a captive breeding harem, the dramatic tension evaporates instantly. There is no soul-searching or philosophical debate to be had because no rational person, let alone Superman, would ever entertain that choice for a single second. Clark does not have to choose between competing definitions of justice or duty. He just has to choose between basic human decency and becoming an irredeemable monster. By making the Kryptonian heritage completely abhorrent, the script eliminates all internal conflict and turns what should be the emotional crux of the movie into a meaningless non-decision.

>>222664774
So what? Some of us actually like to express ourselves and articulate an argument instead of communicating in one-line dismissals or memes. If reading more than two sentences is too much heavy lifting, feel free to scroll past.

>>222663565
Weird. It probably would have worked out better if he just made a mythology or used an existing real world mythology instead of the guy from Action Comics.

>222663713
>222663746
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>222663792
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>222664073
>222664182
>222664247
>222664603
>222664717
Holy shit, bro is going off. This is some of the best criticism of this film I’ve seen that wasn’t just, “I don’t like the colors”

>>222664900
I always appreciate an effortpost.

Superman work for ICE

>>222664837
>Save them from themselves
As opposed to
>Become Superking and build a harem

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If we bend over backwards to be generous and search for a single discernible character flaw in this Superman, outside of his bizarre habit of losing almost every physical encounter despite the opening crawl insisting he had never lost a fight before, the only trait you can point to is a desperate, pathological craving for acceptance.

Throughout the entire story, Clark functions as a man constantly begging the world to validate his existence. He relies on robot attendants to soothe his fragile ego with holographic recordings of his dead parents, and he pines for emotional validation from Lois Lane, who refuses to even say she loves him back. He meekly accepts being mocked and patronized by the corporate hacks in the Justice Gang, and he has a genuine temper tantrum during a journalistic interview because anonymous trolls on social media called him "#SuperShit".

Most absurdly, this desperate need for approval extends directly to Lex Luthor. Even after watching Lex casually execute that innocent, terrified jeet street vendor in cold blood right in front of him, Superman's final response in the climax is not righteous moral anger, but an earnest, pleading monologue trying to convince this psychotic murderer that he is truly human and just trying his best.

The problem is that this dynamic does not provide the character with genuine dramatic pathos. It does not stem from the quiet, self-assured nobility that defines the classic hero. Instead, it feels entirely like James Gunn projecting his own personal neuroses directly onto the character. It reads like the mindset of a director who spends far too much time reading social media comments, obsessing over online chatter, and desperately demanding that every critic recognize his pure intentions. Replacing Superman's steady moral backbone with the thin-skinned neediness of an insecure online personality completely empties the character of any real majesty.

In essence, fuck James Gunn.

>>222664985
>Throughout the entire story, Clark functions as a man constantly begging the world to validate his existence. He relies on robot attendants to soothe his fragile ego with holographic recordings of his dead parents, and he pines for emotional validation from Lois Lane
This part at least is accurate to the comics.

>>222665041
Not even close to the extent seen in this movie.

Look at how the film actually handles the Clark and Lois dynamic. They have been together for all of three months, yet the relationship is written with the exhaustion of a miserable, dysfunctional marriage. Clark cooks her breakfast for dinner, drops an earnest "I love you," and gets immediately brushed off by a Lois who refuses to say it back and laments that she is just terrible at intimacy. When she conducts a basic journalistic interview, she accuses Clark of always running away and pouting when faced with personal conflict, an absurd claim given the script establishes this is their first on-the-record interview. The second she asks a mildly uncomfortable question, Clark leaps out of his chair, shrieks over online hashtag insults, and storms out of the apartment. There is no mature partnership or mutual respect, only an emotionally volatile man-child demanding unconditional praise from an emotionally detached partner.

The entire dynamic feels less like authentic character writing and more like an overt, heavy-handed inversion of classic Hollywood romance tropes. Lois is written as the stereotypical emotionally unavailable, cynical male lead who is married to the job, closed off, and terrified of feelings. Clark is turned into the stereotypical melodramatic female lead who stays home cooking, confesses love prematurely, sulks when his feelings are hurt, and constantly fishes for emotional validation. It does not read like a real relationship between two iconic characters. It reads like a director amusing himself with a deliberate trope swap, turning Lois into an unfeeling wall and stripping Superman of the steady, mature confidence that makes him compelling in the first place.

>>222665209
The big mistake was skipping over Lois finding out, that should be a huge step in their relationship and not something that comes easily to Clark. Superman in the comics is pretty standoffish and neurotic about his emotions, he's not forthcoming and open like he is in the movie.

>>222665593
Fair point on the comics. In print, Clark's most consistent personal flaw has almost always been that he is deeply guarded, neurotic, and borderline paranoid about maintaining his double life.

He keeps the people he cares about at arm's length out of an agonizing fear of putting them in danger, and the burden of constant secrecy eats away at him. The drama in his best comic runs comes from the fact that he has to lie to the people he loves most just to protect them, creating genuine friction and loneliness because he cannot afford to be an open book.

That is why the movie's dynamic feels so completely backwards. Instead of a Superman carrying the heavy, quiet guilt of hiding his true self behind a mask, we get a Clark who blurts out his identity almost immediately, wears every insecurity on his sleeve, and throws an emotional fit the second someone asks him a tough question. The comic version struggles with the pain of being forced to keep secrets from the world, whereas the film strips away that entire dilemma to turn him into an emotionally needy open book who collapses the moment he does not get instant validation.

It feels like Gunn just wanted to subvert the dynamic, either because he thought it would be funny, or to make the character more like himself.

>>222663565
GOOD MORNING SAAR

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>>222664709
>looked like ass.
It has some of the best cinematography of all superhero movies

>>222664323
Which one?

>>222665738
Everything you mentioned seems to be there in Smallville though, strange that.

>>222664520
Eh if your race were super powered demi gods I could understand them being assholes like Viltrumites

>>222664000
Yeah I described it as an easily digestable slop movie, are you just repeating what I said and triggering yourself like a faggot?

>>222666335
On Krypton they don't have powers.

>>222663493
Good morning, sir!

>>222666218
You have no idea what good cinematography looks like.

>>222666225
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUAXIMoZuBM
It's nuts.

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>>222666218
Checkmate

He looks jewish so I didnt watch

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>>222663609

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Reminder that Snyder is the Blueprint.

>>222668935
If someone had praised Chris Nolan's Odyssey for its scrupulous fidelity to mytho-historical accuracy, you would suspect that not only had they not seen the film, they had not read any honest accounts of it. So it goes with people complaining about ironic detachment in superman 2025

>>222664293
what the FUCK is this movie

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>>222663565
Fuck off FUCK OFF

>>222668977
It's amazing just how much better it looks with actual colour and light.

>>222663764
I got the idea the robots didn't have the heart to let Superman know what the message really meant so they didn't fix it and let him believe otherwise, although that raises the question of why they weren't programmed to push for Jor-El's vision

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>>222663493
Indian thread.

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Superman face=punk
Superman haters=prep

>>222663565
Snyder falls short at anything that isn't action scenes and aura moments

>>222664709
You must either be blind, a nigger or a bonafide regard to critisize how the movie looked. For all its issues, the cinematography is one of the good things about the movie. Even with the lens flare, the CGI is fantastic and the action is always front and center. Snyder’s main handicap has always been story.

>>222663493
New He-Man and Travis Knight just pulled the shame thing

>>222663609
This post btfo the whole thread. Not one person pointed to a section in the script where the characters comment on how stupid and weird the world is.

>>222663713
> The Justice Gang, supposedly the planet’s only superhero team, is still arguing over their name as if they just met last week
Where did you see they were the world’s only team?
> There are no treaties on superhuman jurisdiction, no military protocols, no laws for handling beings who could wipe out continents, nothing.
The fallout between Gunn’s Suicide Squad, Peacemaker, and Creature Commando deals with military protocols and metahuman rights (3 different teams in the show btfo, maybe 5 if you count different team comps under the same name).
> Instead of a national alert, military response, or even satellite reconnaissance, the U.S. government does absolutely nothing, remaining totally passive
Doesn’t the Defense Department meet with Lex the following day to discuss locking up Superman? They don’t have a metahuman on the caliber of Superman, that’s the problem.
> Even if the facility relies on cloaking technology, a foreign terrorist visibly flew directly to that precise perimeter and vanished, but somehow in this world with three centuries of superhuman warfare, no radar, spy agency, or reporter bothers to track him or investigate the fortress-like corporate base sitting right outside the city.
Foreign terrorist? You mean state backed metahuman? And your assuming technology exists for no reason, and then getting mad it doesn’t exist? It’s not like every generation had a meta like Superman, there’s no reason to have this expectation that the world have contingencies for something like him.

>>222670065
The action scenes aren't even that good anyway.

>>222663933
> The core issue with how the film handles the Kents is that Clark treats his human upbringing like an emotional contingency plan.
There is literally nothing wrong with this theme. Growing apart from your parents when you become a young adult is a relatable problem for young people striking out on your own for the first time and feeling like you have all the time in the world to eventually reconnect with your parents. Surely you anon have maybe felt guilty about not having called your parents enough, what with having a new job, new girlfriend, and the community service? Superman feels like he basically has it all figured out until the video leaks. Superman felt like his service was predicated on Joe-El’s mission statement. Once Superman learned his mission was built on false pretenses, he returned to his family to seek his parent’s wisdom. His arc doubly works with the Baravia strand in the sense that Superman is at first draws his moral sensibilities from the expectations of others (The House of El) which leaves him vulnerable anxiety about public perceptions (the criticism he received about Baravia). Once Superman learns the truth about the House of El, he has to meditate on his ethical framework in his talk with Pa Kent. Afterwards he feels no anxiety about getting involved in Baravia

>>222663863
Agreed. Gunn really doesn't respect Superman as much as he thinks he does. His Superman is just "nice", a total pushover. In the movie he starts having a meltie over Lois saying Supershit. It's pathetic. Gunn's real interests lie in the rest of the Justice Gang, a group of assholes, just like the Guardians and the Suicide Squad.

>>222663609
It’s funny how there’s still no answer to this.

Reading Snyderfags and Gunnfags insulting each other over which movie was worse, is like witnessing two winos fighting over and empty bottle. The truth is both takes suck. A shame really. I hate Snyder's Murderman so much, I was hoping Gunn would get it right, but he didn't.

>>222663565
Snyder made every character into it's security guard equivalent

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>>222664293
Gunn made Superman slow as shit to enable this nonsense because there's no way it would've worked with this level of speed.

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>>222669946
>gunnjeet doesn't have a taste for art
many such cases

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>>222673409
The fight scenes were really something in that movie.

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>>222673893
Shit, that's too abrupt. Here's a better gif.

>>222670533
Citing black-ops suicide squads from streaming spin-offs does not solve the movie's total lack of public worldbuilding. If a movie requires homework from three different projects just to justify why the society on screen behaves with zero basic logic, the script has failed. In the actual film, the only heroes that exist to respond to a world-ending crisis are three corporate mascots who still do not have an established team name.

Meeting with Lex in a boardroom the following afternoon is not a defense response to an act of war. A foreign-aligned metahuman leveled city blocks in Metropolis. The idea that the United States government would just sit on its hands without mobilizing defenses, scrambling jets, or tracking the attacker, only to passively outsource national security to a private billionaire without asking basic questions, is pure convenience.

Arguing that basic tracking is "assuming technology exists for no reason" is laughable in a world where Lex can casually clone Kryptonians, build pocket dimensions, and synthesize the Big Bang. A massive, distinctive metahuman flew five miles outside city limits and touched down at an encampment flying a giant LexCorp banner. You do not need exotic technology to track a flying brawler landing in plain view right outside the city perimeter.

Claiming the world should not have contingencies because Superman is unique also ignores the film's own premise. If humanity has spent three centuries dealing with gods and monsters, standard airspace monitoring and superhuman defense protocols would be basic historical precedent, not brand-new concepts. The movie simply refuses to let its institutions act with basic competence because the entire plot would collapse if anyone did their job.

>>222670753
Clark is thirty years old, not an eighteen-year-old freshman forgetting to call home from his college dorm. Framing his complete detachment from the Kents as a relatable young-adult phase completely falls apart when you realize the script implies he ia basing his entire moral existence on half of a corrupted audio file that he often playback to be soothed, while treating the actual people who raised him as an irrelevant background detail.

Not to mention the profound realization he receives from Pa Kent is simply that he is not obligated to become an intergalactic conqueror just because a broken recording told him to be one. That is not a deep meditation on an ethical framework, it is basic common sense that any functioning adult should already understand.

The idea that this arc neatly resolves the Boravia conflict is completely contradicted by what actually happens on screen. Clark does not emerge from his talk with Pa Kent with a refined, mature philosophy on international intervention. He completely abandons the Boravia storyline to deal with Lex's dimensional rift in Metropolis. The Boravia conflict is instead resolved by corporate mercenaries flying in to engage in private warfare, culminating in Hawkgirl summarily executing a surrendered dictator. Clark never returns to Jaranpur, never addresses the geopolitical fallout of his actions, and learns nothing about the consequences of his power.

Inventing a coherent character journey in headcanon does not change what is in the film. On screen, Clark is treated as an empty vessel who only remembers his adoptive family when his alien fantasy falls apart, and who abandons the very foreign conflict that started the plot so other heroes can solve it with unchecked violence.

>>222663493
>it's the same hogwash where the characters point out how stupid and silly and weird everything is and nothing matters
This wouldn't even be a problem if the movie was good, the characters interesting, the dialogue believable, and the plot and motivations not dogshit.

>>222663628
Answer his question, coward.

>>222663743
>strawman pretending to not understand a point made
Every single time.

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>>222673945
Luv Faora.

>>222664293
This is so weird. I get it's trying to be a fighting game but this is happening in a 3D space and everyone is flying. There's no sense in Superman playing along this well with the simulation.

>>222675611
Superman gets his ass kicked in this movie a lot huh

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>>222675611

>>222663792
>The richest and most intelligent man in the world is not taken down through investigative journalism, He is destroyed because his vapid girlfriend takes selfies in his high-security lair
that is modern "investigative journalism."

>>222674186
why do you need there to be an hour of interactions with the kents to infer clark values them at all? the entire central point of superman, outside of snyder's vandalism, is his mentality and beliefs are the direct result of his human parents. he will, forever, be exactly what they raised him to be and he will never be in a situation where he has to compromise his principles.

>>222663493
I don’t know man. I’m tired. I think DC is going the way of Star Wars for me, where you become apathetic and stop giving a fuck altogether. Which is the last thing you want a consumer to do. The DCU is just not good, and there’s multiple reasons for that. I think the biggest tragedy is that DC still can’t move forward from Snyder. They/Gunn are still developing these projects in anti Snyder mode and MCU wannabe.

Also animation and games seem to be just gone.

>>222676134
You just highlighted the exact contradiction that breaks the film. If Clark's core morality and principles are supposed to be the unshakeable result of his human upbringing, why does the entire movie hinge on him having an existential crisis over an alien voice memo?

The movie refuses to do the legwork with the Kents, giving them two fleeting scenes and expecting the audience's outside nostalgia to fill in the blanks. Yet at the same time, the script places all the dramatic weight on Jor-El's corrupted message. Clark does not brush off the tyrannical recording with the steady moral certainty of a man raised right by Jonathan and Martha. He has a full-blown identity breakdown, claiming he does not know who he is anymore and retreating into isolation.

If thirty years of Kent parenting can be completely derailed by a thirty-second recording from two dead strangers, then the movie did not write a Superman grounded in his human values. It wrote a man who based his entire identity on an alien instruction manual, leaving his adoptive parents as an afterthought until that manual fell apart.

>>222676375
except the reason he believed he was sent to earth for was from the kents. the "existential crisis" is him forgetting that. The point of the movie is mostly that lex was right, that he is an alien, and the more time he spends in his little alien bubble the more alien he becomes.

>>222676491
You are essentially agreeing with my point while ignoring why the entire narrative collapses.

If the premise is that Clark lost his way in an alien bubble, framing his crisis around Jor-El's message completely ruins the drama because the script turns it into a total non-choice. A genuine internal conflict requires two competing ideals that both have understandable appeal. Instead, the message is so cartoonishly evil that the choice is between remaining a decent person or becoming an intergalactic despot who conquers Earth. There is no temptation, no dilemma, and zero tension because the outcome is a foregone conclusion the second the tape plays.

The Kents' entire role is reduced to a plot convenience to resolve this non-dilemma. Clark ignores thirty years of their parenting until his alien fantasy falls apart, runs back to the farm, and receives the groundbreaking advice that he should not become a monster. That is the most basic, obvious moral baseline imaginable. Basing an entire existential crisis on a cartoonish threat only to resolve it with the most obvious answer in fiction is not deep storytelling, it is lazy writing dressed up as character growth.

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>>222676491
>>222663493
Gunn's Superman is so poorly made I don't even consider it a "Superman" film. The fact that you have this whole cope thread to explain why the movie is good just proves it.

>>222676552
>ignoring why the entire narrative collapses.
I'm not ignoring that because the narrative doesn't collapse, no matter what you have chat shit out.

>>222676573
anon OP is shitting on the movie too. most of the thread is a jeet spamming ai text about why movie bad.

>>222676597
Can you argue that the points made in this thread are wrong, though?

>>222676816
I did.

>>222676575
The narrative collapses because the central dramatic engine relies on a total non-choice. A functioning moral conflict requires two philosophies with competing merit. If Jor-El had argued for benevolent rule to prevent Earth from repeating Krypton's self-inflicted extinction, Clark would have a legitimate dilemma between planetary stewardship and human freedom. Instead, Jor-El demands a planet-wide conquest and breeding harem. There is no soul-searching to be done because basic decency versus cartoonish tyranny is not a choice. Clark never wavers, never considers the mandate, and learns nothing. The Kents are treated as an afterthought until the script needs Pa Kent to deliver the staggering revelation that Clark is not obligated to be a space fascist.

That fundamental laziness poisons every mechanical development in the film. Take the entire overarching conflict for one, it only exists because Lex Luthor is written as simultaneously omnipotent and brain-dead.

>>222676829
Well, i didn't saw it then.

I don't know why they went to the trouble of casting all those Daily Planet characters and then Clark Kent is only in the movie for five minutes. They cast Steve Lombard and he doesn't even prank Clark or get pranked back by him. They had such a fun dynamic in the comics.

muh capeshit