Why was this so good and revolutionary yet the sequels were so awful? Almost seems like they were made by different people.
The two sequels were more interested in lore than action and the heroes journeyYeah turns out explaining the mystery is uninteresting
>>223165167It was a simple story. The sequels were always going to suck.
>>223165167One of the brothers got his mind broke by a dominatrix and lost the plot
>>223165167Alright I'm putting it out there, they're not perfect by any means but the first two sequels weren't nearly as bad as everyone wants to pretend they are. Hating them just became a meme.
>>223165273The freeway scene was awesome in the theater.
>>223165263They wanted Switch to be a tranny in the first movie but the producers told them to get fucked.Switch was supposed to be a girl in the matrix and a dude in real life, which is why they called her Switch.So their minds were already broken.
>>223165167
>>223165273Was rewatching Reloaded last night and this shit is so embarrassing
some people just have one good story in them, or in another way of looking at it there was this one story brewing all through the 90s until it found expression through the human vessels of these two dorks the wachowskis, who if they were smarter would have immediately retired afterwards, because those stars are never aligning for them again
the main reason the sequels were “bad” is because they were one script padded out to two movies with action scenes that were clearly just delays without any stakes.
>>223165167It was originally going to be a Will Smith flick, would have been a completely different movie>hell naw I'm not going on that ledge>pssh I knew that white world was fake as hell yo>stoppin' bullets, now that's what I'm talking bout
Wtf was up with those gigachad agents in the sequels?Agens just looked like regular semi-fit men in the first movie
>>223165167Not sure if this has been posted here, but I can provide some info from years of working at WB as an editor. Basically, the Wachowskis did not direct a lot of the first Matrix but they did direct the sequels. There was a massive lawsuit that you can find articles of (and that is also mentioned in the infamous piece about how they were turned into trannies by Ilsa, one of their dominatrix) where the black pilot and Joe Pantoliano both testified that the Wachowskis were not present for many of the ship scenes. Furthermore, the original draft was written by the guy who wrote Highlander and Altered Carbon. Both he and Shirow Masamune, who was shown pictures of the Wachowskis with the GiTS manga on set, both were paid hush money by WB in over 1 mil each. The Altered Carbon writer has been on podcasts about this with receipts. More than likely, the director of the first film was actually the director of V for Vendetta, who was confirmed to have been the "AD" in the ship scenes by crew members and cast alike during testimony. This is why the Wachowskis never recovered after the first film and why that one does not feel like any other film they have made - no coherence in style or writing.
>>223165468>do you think me being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles, in -this- place?>upgraded agents are swoleIt’s a visual cue to show the machines don’t understand how or why humans can reject/control the matrix
>>223165294The funny thing is that this just raises more questions. Was Switch born female in the Matrix but always felt male, then woke up to find he really was male? That would make sense, the message is that the Matrix version was a lie. I'm pretty sure they have some kind of control over their residual self image after they wake up, so why does Switch keep projecting female after jacking back in?Or is it that Switch's mind always looked and felt female and happily lived that way in the Matrix, and then woke up to find an inexplicable male body in the real world? Is the real Switch the man in the pod or the projection of the woman in the Matrix? Does the Matrix accept their thoughts and turn a mind from a male body into a female, thus proving that being trans is a delusion? Or is it that the Matrix screwed up and accidentally gave her the wrong gender inside the Matrix?
I don't like how Neo became overpowered.
>>223165580Makes sense. Usually when one or two people are responsible for a great movie they show talent afterwards. Matrix fits as a product of peak 90s studio collaboration.
>>223165167>so awfulhow
How was this ever considered good? Such a shitty concept. I’d rather be delusional, live my NPC life in a comfy freedom apartment, and die happy in my little fantasy than wake up on Apokolips, eating slop and being told to do random shit by a bald retard
>>223165167>Why was this so good and revolutionary yet the sequels were so awful?Anons will write walls of explanations and a lot of them will be great, but there is only one real explanation:Style.Matrix oozes style in every single scene, no matter what is going on.There is a scene where Apoc hands a gun to Neo, and he does a small twirl with it, a one second long scene, twirl wasn't necessary, but it was still there. Every scene is like that. People still remember twin ghosts, but when you look at their fight scene, it is only three seconds long. Still it made impact.Fourth Matrix has absolutely no style whatsoever, and that is worse sin than shit script.
>>223165968the twin ghosts are in the highway scenethe sequels are pretty stylish and aesthetic, I think they failed to beat the inherent sequel problem. The whole reason it exists is because of a different great film.
>>223165951you're brown
Tranny jokes aside, the movie is perfect because the first half sets up the reveal for the Matrix and the ability to go godmode like you're playing a video game. After Morpheus is taken it just turns into an amazing rescue and escape mission movie that never pumps the breaks. Good structure.
>>223165951t.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TLJb9NZN0Iweird shit. but as >>223165190 says, it's clear the Wachowski Brothers were more into the 'lore' whereas most of us just wanted action set pieces connected by a coherent story.i might be in the minority here where i think the backstory in The Animatrix sort of sucks. it effectively boils down to 'humans are the REAL monsters so the robots HAD to turn into evil squid demons.'it was better in the first film where it was just implied. i don't need flashbacks explaining every historical detail in the setting, nor do i want metaphysical arguments beyond 'how do you define "real"?'
>>223165852exactly. you also have to think: if the matrix WAS made by them and the sequels all did make money (i think except for 4) then wouldn't hollywood want trans slaves to make them money? surely this would be the best marketing for them. But it's because they never made it in the first place. Drew Goddard has hinted as much while working on Matrix 5.
>>223165294>So their minds were already brokenThis is something that flies under the radar, but only reason why this isn't considered to be one of the most woke movies ever made is because of studio meddling. Switch is one thing as you mentioned, but people forget that Neo was originally supposed to be played by Will Smith, which would bring number of fucking white males in the movie to pic related, a traitor and Agents, so this is something Wachovskis were already obsessed with.That slso throws wrench into gaslighting fags who claim this exist only thanks to muh Occupy Wall Street.
>>223165167The Animatrix is awesome.
>>223166093woke (critical race theory) didn't exist before it was used to collapse occupy.
>>223165380I enjoyed Speed Racer
>>223165167there's a big screencap of someone explaining how the whole thing from matrix 1-3 is an insult to judaism and the last two movies were weird because keanu's (wife or something?) was murdered after the first movie in response to the film's assertion of him as a messiah and jews being unhappy or something I cannot find the image
>>223165781Depends what residual image even means in the context of Matrix. Basically everyone except switch looks exactly like they do in real life, but is that based on how you see yourself? I bet most people wouldn't be able to draw their own face from memory. Do schizoids look completely different in Matrix because they think they are dragons?If this isn't something you have any input on, it sounds like a glitch in Matrix, rather than anything to do with Switch.
After the LOTR franchise took the world by storm there was some sort of race to make the next epic trilogy/cash-in..
>>223166123I hope this is an ironic shitpost.
>>223165167The first one was two men the rest were 2 women.
>>223166113Animatrix is arguably the best Matrix entry.
>>223166042Imagine what the deranged faggot who made this looks like
>>223165951When you first see the movie when you're young and rebellious, you think the Matrix is a prison because that's what every character tells you and the bad guys look like government agents.When you get older, you realize that having god like powers in a reality where the only limit is imagination is actually pretty cool. But not everyone is capable or deserving of that power.
>>223165167Reloaded was good. Revolutions plays out as if the dick-sisters didn't know how to wrap up the trilogy, so they just crapped out whatever. >>223165290Yes it was. The whole of Reloaded presented incredibly well in the theater.
>>223165167>revolutionarythere you have it. you can create something that's ground breaking to a medium only once reallythe sequels were forced by WB following the massive and unexpected success of the original movie and shot back to back within a couple years
>>223166284low IQs are way too hung up on the matrix as a place. The matrix represents the real world, and "the desert of the real" is transcendance. The point is to return with powers and save a few of the vast majority who are still there. If I wrote a Matrix movie it would involve pro and anti-matrix factions of similar strength, but that's not how the trilogy is written at all. It's one reason everyone hated the Zion plot in the sequels, nothing can really make Zion the true humanity. Humanity is in the matrix.
>>223165167Someone with much more talent than the Super Troonio Bros. obviously rewrote the first one nearly from scratch. This was the studio impression of the 1994 draft they were passing around.
>>223166508>if i wrote a matrix movie i'd completely misunderstand it
>>223166537My movie would take into account the fact that a good matrix film was already made, called The Matrix (1999) and it even had an excellent sequel, The Animatrix. (2003) I would definitely not take into account the type of screeching 'fans' who want the same feelings and member berries of the original 1999 premíere.
>>223165273Reloaded has higher highs but lower lows, action scenes are better than even the first movie (imho)Revolutions is just retarded and straight up bad
>>223165273Yes, they are. You're just a contrarian child. Reloaded had all the good will in the world for people going in. And then they watched it.
>>223166245They ruined Kill Bill by chasing this nonsense.
>>223166589contrarianism is borderline solipsism, where you assert any opinion not held by (you) isn't genuine and exists only to antagonize (you). it isn't real.
>>223165167I still haven't watched the sequels and I'm never going to. I rewatch the first one often though
>>223165167Milking IPs always end like this anon. Always. No exceptions exist. The maximum number of movies that and IP can retain consistent quality is 3 and even then it usually requires pre-planning rather than winging it. Suits however only care about money so as long as audiences consume it they´ll keep selling it.
>>223166609Nothing wrong with Kill Bill being a two parter except Tarantino fucked up putting most of the action in the first movie and ending the story with a wimper.
>>223166079No one forced you to watch Animatrix. It exists for those that want additional material and to know how the directors intended things to play out. People like different things. You don't have to be angry that there's stuff that doesn't cater just to you individually.
>>223165463>It was originally going to be a Will Smith flick
>>223166079the second renaissance is pure propaganda you mark
>>223166510did you actually read this? this guy literally didn't understand the twist. he seems to think when neo wakes up in his pod that's him ENTERING a virtual reality. that's why he thinks the second half of the movie is "surreal" and "confusing," he didn't get which parts are real and which are a simulation and how the two relate to each other. the "total rewrite" he recommends didn't actually happen.
They made two good movies, the last being 27 years ago.
>>223165580but why would the Matrix (Hollywood system) promote them in th first place ?
>>223166665the machines have no reason to lie
>>223166705The machines aren't talking. The zion mainframe is, a captive AI. It has a vested interest in people blaming themselves, and it clearly speaks in metaphors.
>>2231660875 ?
>>223166723>the machines aren’t talking [the machines are]Everything in Zion was provided by the machines.
>>223166757So, the machines that are profoundly lying to everyone not just inside the matrix, but in Zion as well have no reason to lie.
>>223166769> the machines that are profoundly lying to everyoneYet you can’t find a single example of the machines lying.
>>223165463>>223166653I-Robot is kino. I'll die on the hill that it's his best movie.
>>223166791Fair enough. The mainframe just shows something that isn't reality, it isn't lying per se because I didn't ask.
>>223166818Why would the machines show something other than an objective record of history? There is nothing in second renaissance that demonizes or lionizes either side.
>>223166830The same reason they show people the matrix and allow them to believe the zion mainframe is separate from the matrix.
>>223166843>the same reason [headcanon]
>>223166860You're the one who said the mainframe is the same as other machines.
>>223166867Where did I say that? Maybe you should re-read posts
>>223166881right here >>223166757
>>223165468And they also looked at each other and then ran in opposite directions in the last scene. The newer agents are higher ranks
>>223166883Read it again anon.
the sequels were still goodbut they had like 70% of the gritty realism of the first
>>223165781>so why does Switch keep projecting female after jacking back in?Why not? It's not real anyway. It means less than a fap avatar in mmo.
>>223166895why
>>223166510This kills that retarded cope about the studio dumbing down the movie if the machines were using people as batteries that far back. Also lmao @ CyberMarines.
>>223166904Because you didn’t understand it. But that seems to be a problem in general for you.
>>223166926how
>>223166668Never underestimate the stupidity of a boomer suit.
>>223166909That’s just a retarded executive’s take on the script anon.
>>223165580Thank you for this information, I'm reading The Third Eye and suspected there were other people involved in the first cut that only aired the opening weekend when the studio was trying to get Sofia to be alright with the movie
>>223166280look in a mirror
>>223165781The Matrix does have an issue with it's messaging when you put it like that>when you're in the Matrix, you're you the way you see yourself, and the way you wish to be>but the Matrix is bad, and you're supposed to seek an escape from the Matrix so you can wear an itchy sweater and eat the slopIf anything, the underlying theme is anti-trans, isn't it?Bros, are the Watchowskis fucking idiots?
The origin story is always more interesting than the continuation
>>223165167there are some missteps with the sequels (technically, the sound, some of the cgi) but sadly its biggest sin is giving the audience a much less satisfying view of the world than the first one. People just don't want to have to deal with questioning yourself and your faith.
>>223166951They didn’t say residual self image is an idealized version of yourself, but rather a “residual,” a remnant of what the matrix told you that you were.
>>223166685The Wachowskis were comic book writers from Canada. As far as Sofia Stewart knows, though, it sounds like she thinks they directed the movie and ripped her off, but that it was actually the V For Vendetta director who made the movie hoping she would be cool with it and then they pinned the blame on them when she wasn't
>>223165167>good and revolutionary>copy and paste John Woo and Ringo Lam's movies from the 80s but more expensive and retarded
>In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony God's blessing, but because, I am enlightened by my own intelligence
>>223165167They just ripped off the Invisibles for the first movie. They had no material to rip off for the sequels.
>>223166725Matrix 5 is currently being developed with Goddard and guy that did John Wick. From what I saw the debate right now is whether to set it before Matrix 1 or to continue off Matrix 4. I have a feeling they will do a sequel as there is more room to wiggle.>>223166685I think why they did it was that they are free publicity and easy to control. They did not have any power to fight a studio. Imagine tranime fans now and giving them access to Hollywood sphere drugs and parties. That's my guess anyway. They aren't talented otherwise.>>223166946nice, what is that book about? and you are quite welcome. i was a big GiTS fan and it surprised me to learn about the legal proceedings. another example of this is Joe P confirming that Keanu Reeves was the one who insisted the steak scene be left in the movie - the Wachowski trannies wanted to cut it out. If you think about the scene and the way it is set up, why would a director ever cut that scene out? Makes no sense given the setup of it for everything else. Even the studio wanted it in.
>>223167176Yes and no. There's a lot of cyberpunk and anime in the Matrix as well.
>>223165273Captain Mifune wrecking shit redeems Revolutions for me
>>223167216>I CAN PRESS THE MG TRIGGER REALLY HARD RAAAAAAARRRRGGHHHHHHHH
>>223165167Sequels weren’t that bad. Reloaded had some good action scenes and the lore with the architect and Merovingian and prior matrices was good. They were ahead of their time with the whole “Zion is a big gay brown communist pit orgy” thing.
>>223167216What the fuck kind of mutt was that guy anyway? He looks vaguely asian but has giant flaring nigger nostrils. He's also the "Meat's back on the men, you boys!" orc in LOTR.
>>223167310New Zealand
>>223167310Pacific Islander
>>223165167The matrix sequels and basically Prequel tier garbage
>>223167195It's a spiritual science fiction about a dude named JC and a robot that travels back in time to protect him so he can go to a planet called Orr to retrieve a godlike object. Matrix and Terminator were both based on the book and the author is not okay with that.When you're asking me that as a question, I do have to answer it and I'd say they probably didn't want to make the act of enjoying a nice meal seem like a greedy thing to do. But now that you mention it, they didn't really do any significant food scenes in the sequel, at least any where the focus was on the food as much as the character dynamics.
