Did rich white advertising executives in the 1960s really react with universal emotional devastation and dismay when they heard some nigger got shot?
They were performatively acting. I mean pete is always "outraged" at woke shit
Americans have always worshipped niggers
Spottem Gottem got gotten?Oh my god...
>>223222584Pepe was the only one that was actually woke tho. Everyone else just pretended to care
>>223222549idk but they probably knew it would (and did) lead to mass riots and looting.>blacks kill each other every day>silence>repeat offender out on parole with drugs and a gun gets shot by a cop>riot riot riot loot loot loot
>WE ARE MLK>WE CARRY THE FLAME
They didn't have fatigue yet
Yes. Are you a dumb chud or something?
>>223222689I recall this being the bigger concern for the older characters whereas the women and younger hippie types were performative and crying, which is realistic.The only silly thing is Don. Why would Don get emotional over stuff like this? It never rang true but his character was also absurd in general.
>>223222748>It never rang trueWhy? His character has a lot of flaws but he was never racist.
>>223222748heh, the nigger concern
>>223222748Don was pretty woke>mad that BASED Roger does blackface>hires a negress secretary>lets his second wife work for a living>doesn't hit his kids and gets mad when Birdie wants to
>>223222768It’s not about being racist, but the idea that some public figure dies in general and him being visibly shook by it didn’t seem right. He seems like the kind of guy who should just shrug and say that’s the way of the world. But again his character was absurd and unbelievable in general (ultra high status rich Chad fucks all women constantly but is also le hecking depressed and complex because like he has no meaning until he does a Coke ad)>>223222811True. I think the point of it all was that Don was a new age free spirit at heart who was shackled and confined to the social expectations of his time because he was running from his true identity and part of that was playing the opposite role in public to what he truly was, but it was just cartoonish at times
>>223222549that's one of the worst episodes of the whole show. you can tell it was written by an amateur that couldn't even get the character voices right, just like when they let christopher's actor write the sopranos. this guy wrote one more episode next season, iirc the one where don divorces megan, which was also bad.
>>223222549The whole show is gay woke slop but /tv/ has a massive blind spot when it comes to "cool" protagonists.
>>223222841>ultra high status rich Chad fucks all women constantly but is also le hecking depressed and complex because like he has no meaning until he does a Coke adyou have to be 18 to post here btw
>>223222841>True. I think the point of it all was that Don was a new age free spirit at heart who was shackled and confined to the social expectations of his time because he was running from his true identity and part of that was playing the opposite role in public to what he truly was, but it was just cartoonish at timesIt works better if you see Don not as a human character but a personification of the ideals of the changing time period. >starts as trad Chad 50s poster boy with epic business job, doll wife at his suburban home with two kids>he feels constrained, over the course of the show starts to smoke weed, loses sense of structure, ends up divorced living with an actress wife in a city apartment and taking trips to California where he aimlessly wanders around and searches for meaning >becomes a yogi faggot and ends up creating the genesis of modern globohomo corpo slop in advertisingIt basically shows how American culture of the mid century (Don at the beginning) was subverted through nihilism, drugs and lack of moral convictions and structure to create the boomer faggots we know today (though the show would probably insist these are good things that happened because people finally had enough of being ‘held down’ by a strict society or something)
>>223223017>starts as trad Chad 50s poster boy with epic business job, doll wife at his suburban home with two kidsyou fundamentally misunderstand the character. he was never really any of these things and never sincerely identified with any of it, he was just playing a character and always identified with marginalized people throughout the run of the show.
>>223222811don isn't mad that the performance was racist, he's mad because roger is making a fool of himself in public just to please some whore
>>223223037I would say that’s part of the point (the idealistic 50s Americana time was always a facade/illusion, as Don is). And that’s how you’re supposed to feel about Don, except it’s retarded because Don before he’s Don was essentially a non character and he’s lived most of his adult life as a womanizing rich guy who’s on top of the heap, so him identifying with the marginalized when he was always a hyper ambitious go getter that became extremely successful early in life just didn’t seem believable.
>>223223087>didn’t seem believablebecause you don't understand his character. he's been on the run since he was a teenager, looking over his shoulder because he's a deserter and never really had a home and a family. people who feel alienated by society have an easier time identifying with people on the fringes.the moments on the show where we see don drop his mask and actual be himself and use his real name he's basically a beatnik, that's who he really is.
betty is the character who is actually supposed to sincerely represent the ideals of the 50s, and whose entire character arc is her being unable to cope with the changing times.
>>223223017Don was depressed because the version of himself he created wasn't real and it was driving him insane.
>>223222628why didn't they give them rights?
>>223223116>this guy is like secretly a hecking beatnik… he also had a “mask” for 20 years where he was ultra materialist giga Chad rich man ambitious guy, but it was all a hecking mask the entire time to hide that he was really a beatnik and just didn’t know it…Holy shit… this is deep.
When Dick stays on the train and his little brother chases after him was the saddest part of the entire run. Then he finds Don, tries to connect, gets stiff armed, and kills himself. Don hated the idea of going back to being Dick Whittman, but he ended up hating Don even more.
>>223223159>he was really a beatnik and just didn’t know it…he knew ithonestly I don't know wtf you think Don's arc even was if it wasn't this, it wasn't terribly subtle or anything
>>223223152>wasn’t real How was it not real? I guess my point is that someone who actually becomes that successful isn’t “faking” anything. Becoming an ultra wealthy elite businessman doesn’t follow from trying to run from the fact that he was a deserter
I only watched one episode, and in that episode everyone spent most of the time whining about the Detroit riots, so I knew it was fake and gay and turned it off
>>223223199I hate attempting discourse with zoomers so much it's unreal
>>223223199It's genuinely baffling that any of you fucking philistines survived past infancy. You know you have to be 18 to post here, right?
>>223223197>he knew it Why not just be that with a different name then? >I need to hide my true identity because I’m actually a deserter… therefore even though I just want to sit around and smoke weed on the beach and do yoga, I will become a supremely rich well known name in the heart of the New York advertising industry… that way my secret is safe. It’s the perfect role…
>>223222549
>>223223236>Why not just be that with a different name then?because he hated himself and thought he wanted to be something else
>>223223230>>223223216He is right and you shills are dumb. Don is a laughably unrealistic character >>223223266So the point is he hates himself no matter what. Powerful
>>223222549The entire show was filmed with a modern mindset in mind, looking at events from a biased viewpoint and the benefit of hindsight. It's always difficult not to do this when making a period piece but considering the entire show was a liberal jerkoff and wet dream, a demagogic work designed from the outset to blame rich capitalistic whitey for all of America's modern problems while openly shilling products to its audience in every episode, the only conclusion is these performative reactions from supposedly contemporary characters was done on purpose.
>>223223157They did. We rescued them from central Africa, gave them good work, shelter, food. We taught them the values of faith and hard work, often at the end of the whip.Like women, blacks have always lived in Easy Street.
>>223223281>Don is a laughably unrealistic characterwhat is unrealistic about him? do you really think there aren't millions of people slaving away at careers they think are what they want, even excelling, when it's not really who they are? isn't this basically the human condition in present year? do you think it wasn't the human condition in 1960?
Confess, Fletch is every bit as good as Fletch and Fletch Lives.
>>223223355It was worth a watch just to see Hamm and Slattery back on screen together honestly, but not terribly memorable
>>223223286Good post. I'll add that there's a reason they depicted racist WASPs in a show about an industry utterly dominated by Jews.
Don is like Patrick Bateman is he tried to get away with murdering Paul Allen by pretending to be him which is also the plot of The Talented Mr Ripley. Very sloppy writing, muchly derived.
>>223222549Every face in this photo:>Oh God, what are the niggers going to do next?!OP:>did high level ad men really care about the plight of the American negroe like all that, and did they respond to the MLK assassination with utter dismay?What? No, it was like hearing there was a security breach at Arkham Asylum.
>>223222768Being racist isn't a flaw, faggot.
>>223223060Roger wasn't doing it to please some whore, he was doing it because he thought it was funny. It was cleary Roger's idea, not hers and he was loving every minute of it.
>>223223508>It was cleary Roger's idea, not hersdoesn't the episode literally say the opposite?
>>223222689
>>223223339> do you really think there aren't millions of people slaving away at careers they think are what they want, even excelling, when it's not really who they are?No, most people are very aware of what they want and cannot have it because of their life circumstances so they have to suck it up and deal with it. A loser beatnik guy who’s trying to fit in with the counterculture and be “cool” when he really dreams of being a powerful executive looked upon favorably by society would be far more realistic and pertain to reality more (look how the hippie boomers turned into 80s Reaganites). The reverse is nonsense, there’s nothing stopping Don who’s already obscenely wealthy from just fucking off and doing whatever he wants halfway through the show.
>>223223592>there’s nothing stopping Don who’s already obscenely wealthy from just fucking off and doing whatever he wantsbeginning to understand your true nature and what you really "want" is a lifelong process for most people
>>223223116>the moments on the show where we see don drop his mask and actual be himself and use his real name he's basically a beatnik, that's who he really isNo, the truth is he has almost no central identity, he's basically Patrick BatemanHe wants to fit in, whether that's at the office or with clients, or the beatnik mistress and her friends. But ultimately he finds each of those things hollow and runs aways from them.When the beatnik show back up again later and she's a junkie artist he rejects her "free" lifestyle When he's in California ditching Pete and going AWOL he finds their lifestyle empty and returns to societyHe runs away from farm life to go to the army (yes I know he was drafted) and ditches that the chance he getsThe only actual, genuine trait he has is his love for his kidsHim being good at advertising is because he chameleon changes to whatever society does, but he is not a hippy at his core
>>223223639True, and as you said it applies to most people, far more interesting ways to portray it than with a character like Don who fundamentally doesn’t actually have real problems
>>223223648>he's basically Patrick Batemanthis is such a stupid take that I honestly hope you're just trolling
>>223223685Prove him wrong.
>>223223563No, he says it was his idea and she was embarassed when he rehearsed it with her earlier
>>223223286>the entire show was a liberal jerkoff and wet dream, a demagogic work designed from the outset to blame rich capitalistic whitey for all of America's modern problemsi don't even know where to start with shit like this. have you hallucinated a whole different show? because it gets kind of libtarded in the last couple of seasons but early mad men is if anything idealizing the white male creative genius and work environment. how is a show that unironically backs nixon in the nixon vs kennedy presidential race a liberal wet dream?
dons only identity is having none, had nothing going back at the whore house and then joined the army which is not much better
>>223223670>fundamentally doesn’t actually have real problemsbeing unable to comprehend problems beyond lack of money, sex, and social status doesn't mean they don't exist
>>223223705>No, he says it was his idea and she was embarassed when he rehearsed it with her earlierthis is not what he says
>>223223714This is true if you’re coming at it from a religious angle, but given the show is presented from a modernist liberal atheist mindset which advocates for a purely material worldview, there is an irreconcilable problem with Don’s character arc and issues being purely spiritual in nature because the show doesn’t know how to resolve it
>>223223749>given the show is presented from a modernist liberal atheist mindset which advocates for a purely material worldviewbrainrot alert
>>223223087>except it’s retarded because Don before he’s Don was essentially a non character and he’s lived most of his adult life as a womanizing rich guy who’s on top of the heapHe was like a tie salesman before he met Roger and was a bottom of the rung ad man for a whileEven at the start of the show he's not even a junior partner
>>223223768Not an argument. The main character’s central issues relate to metaphysical concepts of identity, meaning and purpose but the show rejects the existence of these principles implicitly
>>223223818>the show rejects the existence of these principles implicitlybased on what?
>>223223826The show was created by an atheist jew and rejects religion and pre modern American cultural and social norms, modernist/atheist worldviews cannot account for metaphysical concepts outside of them being individual illusions to each person which means they are fundamentally meaningless/fake, as are any conflicts that arise out of them. This is why Don’s “arc” never actually has a satisfying resolution or finish and ultimately means nothing
>>223223749Don having to live in what to him is a scifi world without faith or spirituality is a very real problem for him even if he doesn't articulate that fact or the show expressly highlighting this because they still exist as being absent in his life.
>>223223887I agree with that, but the shows inability to address that is why it fails as far as developing his character.
>>223223870I think you being unable to view this in any lens other than your own current culture war brainrot perspective is a bigger issue than whatever the worldview of the showrunner is
>>223223946>culture war brainrot Are you retarded? This is irrelevant to any culture war shit. The writers want to have a main character whose entire issues center around their metaphysical status, when they fundamentally reject metaphysics. It’s fine for them to do that, but if so their character arcs need to be written around materialistic goals that can actually be resolved across the show for them to land.
Are any of the books from Mad Men worth reading?
>>223224005>This is irrelevant to any culture war shit.your read of the character and his problems lack any ability to see things from another person's perspective. I imagine this causes you problems elsewhere in your life too.
>>223224025Sally read all of Gibbons' Roman Empire? That shit is like six volumes!
>>223224030Maybe I should reiterate: Don’s problems relate to metaphysical issues related to his sense of identity and meaning. If the writers of Don themselves don’t have an answer to how you can resolve identity and meaning or even what they actually are beyond an illusory subjective concept, it is impossible for them to satisfyingly resolve his character.
>>223224025>Sally Draper>Gibbon' Fall of RomeKek never noticed her reading that.
>>223224065your inability to understand or acknowledge any kind of meaningful self-actualization a person could accomplish other than something spiritual is, again, a limitation of your worldview and an inability to understand the views of others
>>223224131The idea of “Self-actualization” is a fundamentally spiritual/metaphysical concept with no material or physical component to it. You cannot address it outside of a spiritual context because it has no empirical existence anywhere.
>>223224196>The idea of “Self-actualization” is a fundamentally spiritual/metaphysical conceptread a book sometime
>>223224208I don’t think any book would be able to resolve the fact that there is no material existence or way to measure the abstract concept of self actualization
>>223224255>there is no material existence or way to measure the abstract concept of self actualizationthere's currently no way to "measure" basically any psychological principle but that doesn't mean they don't exist, or that they only exist in spiritual terms
>>223223706Come on anon. Right from the first season, they do the 'oh poor me' shit with the jews, and the Nixon campaign was clearly a cynical ploy to get some political clout for future work. They outright state he's a boring out of touch stuffed shirt several times. As for the 'white male creative genius', within the show its constantly shown as being built on lies, with advertising and the entire apparatus surrounding it being depicted directly as duping people into buying shit they don't need. Any aggrandizing of the craft is clearly just them deluding themselves into believing what they do is some noble task, not any sort of commentary on the virtues of these characters, who, if you are white, male, and heterosexual, are almost always some combination of a womanizing, bigoted, and privileged piece of shit. Now the show is well written enough that they're not complete mustache twirling villains, they're well written characters that can have charm and wit, and not entirely without pathos, but compare it with how women and minorities are portrayed, and the show's intentions are abundantly clear.
>>223224308>there's currently no way to "measure" basically any psychological principle but that doesn't mean they don't existCorrect >or that they only exist in spiritual termsAre you acknowledging that things can exist even without any physical or material presence? I’m not sure how you’re trying to use the word “spiritual” but I would say it’s interchangeable with metaphysics in this context, ie there are objective “real” things independent of human minds that also do not have any physical/material existence.
>>223222549>white >advertising executivesPick oneThose are JewsKill yourself
>>223224361>Are you acknowledging that things can exist even without any physical or material presencenope, I'm implying that things can have a material (or at least conceptual) existence that we currently lack the ability to measure, if it's ever possible
>>223222748>>223222768>>223222811Kill yourself
>>223222549In public, yes. In private? Nigga had it coming
>>223224386>(or at least conceptual)So… you are saying that material existence is not necessary for something to objectively exist. At least we’re in agreement there. The problem is being able to ground that in something, which is not possible to do without some structured philosophical/theological basis. At least read some of Plato if you’re averse to Christian theology to understand this more. Point being, at the end of the day, the writers don’t have the ability to ground these things because they themselves don’t know how to answer metaphysical questions like this, so their main character’s metaphysical problems become a permanently unresolved merry go round. Or do you think Don is actually resolved well as a character?
>>223224485>So… you are saying that material existence is not necessary for something to objectively existI didn't say this at all. conceptual things are still material, if you want to be super pedantic about it.
>>223224506>conceptual things are still materialIncorrect. Concepts are purely abstractions within the realm of information/the mind. They can be used by a mind to describe external physical patterns/structure, but concepts by their nature do not physically exist anywhere outside of the conscious mindscape. Whether they are emergent and subjective illusions stemming from a purely material substrate or things that exist and remain the same regardless of any one individual mind being present or not is a different matter.
>>223224549>Concepts are purely abstractions within the realm of information/the mindthoughts have a material existence, it's still ultimately just a neurochemical process
>>223224568So are you saying that the concept of, for example, 2+2 =4, or any other mathematic equation you want to think of, purely exists as a physical neurochemical process? This is a problem if you assume the universe/external world outside of your mind is actually real corresponds to objective mathematical principles regardless of whether a human mind is around which has the neurochemical process representing X math concept present in their head.
>>223224618you can have thoughts about real, objective principles, and that thought still exists physically in your brain even though it represents a larger phenomenon that also exists outside of your head
Therefore you don't exist.
>>223224062Betty's dad made her read it to him
