Keeping in mind that the show's co-creator Neil Druckmann confirmed the cure would have worked. Ellie really was the last hope for ending the plague of cordyceps, so Joel effectively doomed humanity. Druckmann himself said he would do what Joel did in a 2016 interview - but that doesn’t make it right>'Ultimately, "The Last Of Us" with all of its violence, comes from a very deep place where I believe in all of Joel's actions. And I think -- I don't know because I don't live in a post-apocalyptic world -- that I would take similar actions to Joel if faced with those same decisions.'https://web.archive.org/web/20260105103231/https://laist.com/shows/the-frame/a-peek-into-naughty-dog-game-creator-neil-druckmanns-creative-process
Rub her feet
>>223404843I don't think that most media consumers, and especially gamers, understand the concept of ambiguity of meaning.
/v/ says there are audio files that confirm the Fireflies had other immune subjects before Ellie, but I haven't been able to find them
>>223404843Imagine watching video game adaptations. Imagine watching THIS video game adaptation.
>>223404843>Neil Druckmann confirmed the cure would have worked.he didn't need to confirm it. That's what's in the game
>>223404922there's no such audio in the game
>>223404953Why would they lie about this?
>Post apocalyptic world>Only one (1) person tried to rape EllieIs this realistic?
>>223404964they can't handle the moral conundrum the ending presents so they remove it to prevent their brains from melting. It's a form of defence mechanism
>>223404843>the cure would have worked>but we decided to make the main character save her instead so we could make another game and keep the money flowing>also a tv show, comics, collectibles and NFTs, please keep buying our crap
Why'd they need to kill her?
>>223405068It’s pretty typical liberal Zionist thinking >the only solution is to just forgive our enemies or whatever
>>223405077why do you tak about shows you haven't seen?
>>223404843that things face looks like a thumbI would throw it away at the nearest opportunity.
>>223405138I played the game years ago i forgot the plot
>>223404843The trolley problem is bullshit by the way
>>223405165killing her was a side effect. They needed fungus that grows in her brain
>>223405207i mean all over her brain
>>223405207You can take brain biopsys without killing people.
>>223404964until they got greenlit for a sequel Druckmann didn't really have to think about whether the cure would have worked: not knowing was what made the ending interesting. so the scientists were more negatively depicted in the original release (when it was a safer storytelling choice for us to be more on Joel's side) than in the remaster (where they were trying to set up the sequel). it's like GoT: you don't have to plan everything, but if you change your mind about what your whole story means, audiences might notice and reject your attempt to switch course.
>>223405233>not knowing was what made the ending interesting.I don’t agree. Joel thinking that the cure would work is what makes his decision narratively interesting. It would actually be pretty dumb if he was weighing the feasibility of a cure into his choice to save his daughter. That’s why he doesn’t question it. He just says “find someone else.” He thinks they can make a cure and he doesn’t care
>>223405138Okay, I won't ask questions.Your TV show is shit. End of story.
>>223405231They didn't need biopsy of her brain. They needed the fungus lodged in it. This isn't smallpox cure.
>>223404843Whether it was right or wrong to save her in a larger sense, Joel wasn't at all wrong to save her.
>>223404843It seems like Neil himself was surprised by the amount of people who agree with Joel. Apparently only childless freaks went the other way. >“It’s interesting,” he said. “For parents, for anyone I know that’s a parent that has played the game, it’s 100 percent, they agree with Joel. ‘I would do what he did.’ For non-parents, it’s about 50-50. They might still enjoy it and they might still get it, but they see Joel as a monster, a selfish monster. And for us, our intentions, it’s more complicated than that. You could see that Marlene is a monster in some way, that she’s willing to kill a kid for something. It’s like, is that any better than what Joel does? You could argue that everybody is selfish in this story, or everybody is altruistic. It just kind of depends on your point of view.”https://www.gamespot.com/articles/bonds-forged-in-difficult-times-the-making-of-the-last-of-us/1100-6412499
>>223405233you're a goddamn retard. It's clear in the first game the cure would have worked. There's literally no other way to interpret that ending
>>223405207The fungus was immune to itself?
>>223405231>>223405207even in the current (show) version of Druckmann's justification for them needing to kill her, it doesn't actually make sense that they would need to kill her. the current explanation is that her brain releases a pheromone than makes Cordyceps think she is also Cordyceps. but if you've identified the pheromone you'd just need to know the molecular structure to synthesize it, getting the tissue out would be pointless. airbourne pheromones can't be that complicated. people are mad about the wrong thing really. the issue is that Druckman wanted the ending that they LIKE, where Joel saves the cute girl from the mean scientists, without understanding the science needed to make it plausible.
>Just one more little girl bro! We just need to kill one more and we'll have a cure for everyone bro! Just let us cut into this little girl's brain and we can all go back to paying taxes and eating goyslop! Don't you want to save humanity bro?
>>223405317>It seems like Neil himself was surprised by the amount of people who agree with Joelwhy are you like this?
>>223405324Nobody knows. The game very discerningly never elaborates on how her immunity works in either of the games. It just works. The only thing for sure that she is not a carrier and can't transmit the spores to other people. Mechanics of her immunity is not the point of the dilemma. The game never doubts the possibility of her mold being the answer.
>>223404922it's a mass psychosis. Those retards are here >>223405359in this thread
>>223405287we can relate to Joel not caring anyway.but the narrative interest is that the Firefly's POV also needs to make sense. if they're just retards it's a simple good v evil situation. a LOT of fans of the game just go "no these people are retards" so they can ignore the intended complexity, that's the largest group of people for whom Joel getting golfclubbed wasn't acceptable. .
>>223404843>the cure would have workedin the game this wasn't the caseellie wasn't the only human immune eitherthey operated on the others in the *hopes* that their research would bring a cure
>>223405324ellie has a mutated version of the fungus. Not the same thing as everyone else
>>223405341>the current explanation is that her brain releases a pheromone than makes Cordyceps think she is also CordycepsWhere did you even get that?
>>223404843My brain is fried. Saw the feet first and started thinking about sniffing a licking then realized the face the feet are attached to and decided would still sniff and lick.
>>223405320>>223405373pathetic trolling attempts. do better.
>>223405407and also here >>223405423it's an interesting psychological phenomenon
>>223405430the show and probably the post-episode podcast. I can't remember exactly what details were revealed where. Druckmann has definitely uh "expanded the lore" over the years.
>>223405477Mandela Effect. These are the same folks who think Jaws’s girlfriend had braces
>>223404922there are multiple versions of the game with different lore nuggets you can find while shooting your way out of the hospital.
A civilization that needs to kill children to survive is simply not a civilization with having
>>223405508>there are multiple versions of the gameno, there aren't
guys let's change topic to something less contentious: who should have Israel, the Jews or the Palestinians?
>>223405520>not a civilization with havingyou can with a civilization but you can't and of a people
>>223405540Christians. Next question.
>>223404843>the show's co-creator Neil Druckmann confirmed the cure would have workedShow's co-creator Neil Druckmann is a subhuman who got told once by gamers, and had to be told a second time by his precious TV audience. He made rewrites in second game and he tried to push them in his show and it still didn't work.Joel was completely in the right. Fireflies were shady scumbags, he delivers them immune, healthy child and main 'doctor' (who got his education post apocalypse btw) just loudly proclaims 'PREPARE THE AUTOPSY' like a fucking Futurama professor.No tests, no samples, nothing, just kill her immediately. When Joel goes 'Wait a minute' he immediately gets violently knocked out and robbed.That of course doesn't even count in fact that Fireflies had no way to mass produce the vaccine (against spores btw) and no logistics to spread it around. Of course not to mention they would just use it as leverage in their little power games, because as demonstrated in second game, zombies are basically only an afterthought.
>>223405401Sure, but it's a bit strange to emphasize a dilemma that makes no sense when you could have spent five minutes to have it make sense. If the emotion is all that matters, then remove all context and don't waste time at all establishing the reason for the outbreak or the outbreak itself. I mean if it just works, then who cares why there are zombies? Just have them exist and don't explain why.The end result of Cuckmann's half-measured, half-baked, and half-assed writing is that it's just a big fat waste of time.The dilemma is part of the story, but not the ONLY part. In Shaun of the Dead, the titular character's emotional dilemmas are the story, so the existence of zombies is irrelevant.The Last of Us goes out of its way to talk about, at great length, the mechanics of the virus and establish much more going on in the world regarding it beyond Ellie and Joel. They are a PART of the story, not THE story. At least until ol' Neil gave up on the former.I'm willing to bet he wrote the Ellie/Joel narrative and then realized he had like 90 minutes of content but needed 5 hours so the game wouldn't only be the 3-ish hours of gameplay + his 90 minutes, so he and his writer's room just made up a bunch of nonsense about the virus that goes nowhere as padding. Ironically, they could have padded the game with, y'know, gameplay, but that's a lot of work I guess.
>>223405540The parts where Jewish people moved to peacefully should be Jewish and the parts that were conquered from Palestinians should be Palestinian.
>>223405428Why'd it mutate to be immune to itself?
>>223405317He can cope as he wants, I didn't judge the ending the way I did because of the child and her relationship to Joel, I judged it entirely by my impression of Fireflies.
>>223405540Christians, considering muslims stole it from them.
>>223405588and there are also retards like this guy who replace what's in the game with what they've watched on tiktok>No tests, no samples, nothing, just kill her immediately.that's not what's in the game at all. Why do you keep repeating this retarded bullshit? You don't even talk about the actual game anymore. You talk about some imaginary version of the game that you've conjured with fellow chuds.
>>223405317the big problem here, as with GRRM, is that he didn't have a clear idea of what he was trying to say from the outset. so the first half of the story doesn't match where he wound up taking it.
>>223405706and what of poor Neanderthaleus?
>>223405616cowpox gives immunity to smallpox
>>223405739
>>223405317i bet damon lindelof is also surprised that people like kyle chandler in the lanterns, right?
>>223405598>don't waste time at all establishing the reason for the outbreak or the outbreak itselfThey didn't. Not in the game at least. It's literally a background noise in the opening credits of the game and it's "some bullshit grain from south america got into US, origin unknown" this is where the outbreak exposition dump starts and ends. (I don't give a shit about TV show, where they basically had write something since it can't be Joel hiding behind cover with the bottle to throw for 20 minutes of each episode)>The Last of Us goes out of its way to talk about, at great length, the mechanics of the virusAgain. It really doesn't. Mechanics only extend to justify the variants of enemies and it starts and ends at the "it mutates sometimes lmao." Otherwise the background is the most barebones zombie apocalypses flavor imaginable. Taking from every source that came before it. From Walking Dead to 28 Days Later. >establish much more going on in the world regarding it beyond Ellie and Joel.And it's mostly concerning violence people inflicting on each other, discontent with FEDRA rule over safe zones. Nothing to do with the spores mechanics. >I'm willing to bet he wrote the Ellie/Joel narrative and then realized he had like 90 minutesThat's exactly what happened and exactly how it was written which is why outbreak details are nebulous. Not the point of the story, nor the core of the dilemma at the end. Putting the thinking cap on and saying it doesn't make sense for them to immediately vivisect Ellie makes no sense. Since if it's a genuine critique, then how are you if you were on board with the spore infection to begin with? Absurd cure for an absurd virus.
>>223404843Lore wise First game = The Road by Cormac McCarthySecond game = walking dead comicsTV series = walking dead tv series past 3 season lil druckman get lost in a forest of his own schizophrenia
>>223405713>that's not what's in the game at alThe 'hospital' they brought Ellie in was a shithole where electricity barely worked.The retard who wanted to murder her was Freshman in medical school when world ended.Joel's objection was immediately met with violence.Fireflies were pantifa retards in turf war with multiple factions, they had no means to create, produce or ship any kind of cure.Maybe get some media literacy, Kurtzmann- I mean Druckmann.
>>223405875>REEEEEEE HAL WUZ RUINEDno one thinks this except dumb ragebaiters. pic related: revealed to be Hal's gf this week
>>223405956That's a good summary actually.
>>223405912>>223405598very important to understand: game developer's working on a totally new IP are *NOT* primarily worrying about a writer's artistic vision. Druckmann wasn't that high-status in the company until the first game was a hit and he was able to take credit.
>>223405956The first game was originally going to be an inverted Y The Last Man >An early concept for the game was titled Mankind, in which the infection only spread to women; the story followed the journey of a man protecting the only immune woman to bring her to a lab to create a potential cure. The concept was soon scrapped, particularly after female Naughty Dog employees voiced their concerns, as it was deemed misogynistic.[8]
>>223405956>first game: I was 11 when I played it it was so cool and original and I am literally Joel and Ellie is my girlfriend!>second game: I was 17 when I played it, this is fuckin gay, dude! Ellie ain't no fuckin' lesbian! MAGA! >TV show: Bella Ramsay isn't sexy! this show sucks! I don't even watch it! [complains about specific details from every episode]
>>223405713>that's not what's in the game at allKind of is. We know from the second game that they indeed ran the test to determine that the spore is indeed THE spore. But that's from the second game. As far as the timeline goes for the first game, they never even woke her up after she almost drowned at that bus crossing and they brought her in. Of course this will be used as a cope to pretend that Fireflies are mad scientists who don't know what they are doing.
>>223404843Joel was right for the wrong reasons, at least as presented in the show. I haven’t played the game, so I can’t speak to how it’s presented there. Joel saved her out of love, the sort of selfish protective love of a parent who’s lost a child. What makes the Fireflies wrong is that they lied to Ellie, never gave her a choice. “Greater good” be hanged. That’s the same sort of moral relativism that plagued the world that died when the plague hit. They had an opportunity to be forthright with Ellie and Joel. Maybe letting Joel see Ellie make her choice would have helped him make peace with it. Instead, they put him in a scenario that echoed what happened to his real daughter - assholes with guns and “authority” making choices for you. He said, “Fuck that.”
>>223404843I really don't understand why Neil turned Dina from a Jew into a Latina for the show
>>223406048>Ellie ain't no fuckin' lesbian! MAGA!Anon, i... Ellie is a lesbian in a first game(dlc)
>>223406048>>223406082The DLC was written with the first game and intended to be included. Thats why Ellie mentions Riley by name at the end of TLOU
>>223406082yes of course! as everyone in the TLOU fandom have always agreed! teehee! ;^)
>>223406079internalized anti-semitism?
>>223405755As a result of antigens within specific mammals reacting to the virus and producing antibodies. It's not the virus itself curing the virus. If you need to cut open her (Ellie's) fucking brain to access the fungi itself that implies the fungus is self-defeating, which makes no sense.
>>223406052>Kind of is.not at all. It's the exact opposite of what you're implying but you would have to play the game to know that. >We know from the second gamewe know it from the first game but again, you would have to play it to know it
>>223406557>It's the exact opposite of what you're implyingEllie literally wakes up in Joel's car with no memory of even being in the Firefly compound. Meaning Joel is telling her that they found Fireflies wouldn't be the news to her. She spent zero time conscious between falling into the water and waking up post-Joel massacre. I'm not implying anything, that's the narrative of the game. Sorry, but leave the copium about how it upsets you hence I didn't play the game somewhere else, lil sneed.
>>223406423the bottom line is they need the fungus that grows in her head. The details of how it works are irrelevant
>>223406631>No tests, no samples, nothing, just kill her immediatelynot in the game at all. Nothing like that. They did tests and they know they need the fungi. They don't need ellie at all.This is what's in the game. So it's the exact opposite
Cure? Its a fungus not a virus. It's an infestation not an outbreak. You cure this by killing the infected, burning the bodies and burning the fungus wherever you find it. How the fuck you gonna lose a war to a blind army. Just kill them with your weapons. Get a fucking rake. A Pitchfork. They don't have superpowers they can't even see. This whole show runs on pure stupid.
1. Feet2. At that point it's clear in the lore than Canada is doing perfectly good enough where they have shipping up and running. All they have to do is wait it out for the spores to starve. It's not as bad as the walking dead where most zombies would be dead within 2 months due to flesh decay. It's still bad as it has a max impact of 50 years.
>>223406765>They did tests and they know they need the fungiSo just "just kill her immediately" right? So literally what's in the game? Lil sneedy you seem to be completely oblivious about the "observation" parts of the subject that you supposedly deem immune. What the fuck were they observing when they never woke her up?
>>223405588>almost point by point, word for word repeating stuff from tiktok and redditdo you have a single original thought in your head?
Why does Drucc keep making these threads? Joel did nothing wrong; get over it.
so glad they made this show, now i get to see these useless threads on /tv/ as well as /v/
>>223404843>Would you sacrifice your child to save the world?The only way the dilemma works if the cure was 100% possible. That bum ass hospital isn't very convincing though
>>223406910>So just "just kill her immediately" right?i could just repeat what i wrote in my previous post but what's the point if you're gonna play retard?https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Surgeon%27s_recorder
>>223407073it could've been something relatively easy. It's a fictional cure for a fictional disease and it works the way the narrative needs
>>223406923I don't have Tiktock, reddit, facebook or even email. This place would massively improve if they banned anyone with any social media accounts. You'd be gone for sure.
>>223407209>I don't have Tiktockbut you repeat viral tiktok video so closely as if you were writing it down in real time lol
>>223407076>i could just repeat what i wrote in my previous postWhich would in no way disregard "kill her immediately" part. What are you throwing Abby's dad recording for? Nothing in his jargon spiel explains why they never woke her up and NEED to vivisect her the day after they found her. If anything it suggests they are really not in a hurry. Just makes them more unhinged in the process.>After years of wondering around we do not even have time to observe the immune subject conscious. CUT HER UP NOW!I know it upsets you, I see that you are angry. But that's how the game is written. Sorry little sneed.
Quinn Frazier (“Ellie IRL”) shared a profound message on race
>>223407286like i said, what's the point?
>>223407323The point is you being angry and upset over the game being written in a way to make Fireflies unintentionally look callous. >The cause of her immunity is uncertain>Open her fucking head immediatelyI don't think this is an argument in favor of Fireflies being thorough with "tests" as you think this is. Lil' sneed.
>>223407308even /pol/cels agree that race is a social construct. If you're white but you don't eat ham and wear a small hat, you're not realy white, according to them
>>223407245If your writing is so fucking atrocious that not only millions of gamers, but later also millions of TV viewers and HBO execs came to the same conclusion, it sounds like you problem.
>>223407391those same people you're talking about only refer to themselves as white when it suits them, and claim they aren't when it doesn't. that's not a /pol/ thing, it's a them thing.
>>223407308>>223407391Forensic specialists genocide millions of leftist and transsexuals every day just by existing.
Naked cuddling.
>>223407363again, if you played the game you would know they later found out the cause (fungus mutated) and once again>Open her fucking head immediatelywhat you're implying here is not in the game. It comes from people on the internet. Not from the game. Just play the game
>>223407073It's pretty obvious that TLOU2 retcons the first game. The Fireflies are portrayed as fanatical and desperate in the first game.
>>223404843The in-game research collectibles heavily imply that they had no fucking idea what they were doing. Hence why they had to retcon the remaster.
>>223407451Interesting strategy.
>>223407393>millions of gamers
she’s cute, therefore they aren’t dissecting her. simple as. furthermore I have no way of knowing if a random bunch of nerds do actually know what they’re talking aboutThough they can have the thing they cast in the show, why’d I even rescue it anyway
>>223407308
>>223407489>The in-game research collectibles heavily imply that they had no fucking idea what they were doing.you're another guy talking about audiolog that doesn't exist
>>223404843I think everyone would do what Joel did assuming you effectively mean for your own child
>>223407489??? The doctor's audiolog is elated about having a sure cure with Ellie. Then you have Marlene talking repeatedly about how Ellie is a confident cure. All they need is to get the same of Ellie's fungus strain, not exactly hard.
>>223407581that's the point of the ending. It's actually pretty straightforward. Daughter>whole world
>>223405306You biopsy the fungus tardus. fungus don’t need to be a whole organism to live
>>223407520Yes, TLoU was massively succesful and Joel routinelly charts on top of character popularity polls for Playstation, higher than Kratos or Nathan Drake.I am sure Naughty Dog's upcoming character will be even more popular than him.
>>22340743492 percent of Jews identify as Whitehttps://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/race-ethnicity-heritage-and-immigration-among-u-s-jews/
>>223407631yes and? How is that related?
>>223405492I don’t remember a girl shark from jaws
>>223407623Basically just have to allow that for the plot. The game is clear that Ellie isn't specially immune - she's just fortunately saturated with a fungus strain that doesn't harm her. So technically an old sample would spread a cure but for drama they have to kill her.
>>223407391>>223407661She denies crime stats lmao >>223407536
>>223405537There’s the original, the re-release, and the remaster. They all have differences based on what whoever was feeling during development.
>>223404843Put in Joel's shoes and going through everything he went through I think you'd have to be a certain kind of piece of shit to sacrifice her for the sake of everyone else
>>223407661yeah, saying that benefits them when taking a survey like that. that way they get to say "as a white person, we are all monsters." then later when talking to black people they can proclaim they aren't white and that they should team up and take down whitey.they're white when it suits them, they aren't when it doesn't, as i have said.
>>223407714no, they don't. Sauce?
>>223405713>>223406557>>223406765>>223407076>>223407323>>223407483
>>223406079Because moaner fucks like a wildcat
>>223407815that image doesn't even make sense in this context
>>223407483>you would know they later found out the cause (fungus mutated) Sneedy, that's obvious from the get go. This has nothing to do with them opting to vivisect her immediately.>what you're implying here is not in the gameWhat was Ellie doing on the operating table when Joel busts in a day after they found her unconscious? Abby's dad was simply taking her temperature full in surgeons gear? Just a misunderstanding?>It comes from people on the internet. It comes from the game and I'm sorry it upsets you that's just how the game is written.>>223407546He talks about the university recordings where one Firefly's bright mind gets bitten by an infected monkey and the other doomposts into recorder about how their efforts were "..fucking thing was a giant waste of time."You probably should know about them since you keep repeating that only you played the game. Little sneedy? Time to replay maybe?
>>223407864They were taking a blood sample from her. You are just a racist
>>223407684No, you do not have to allow for a stupid plot that ignores grade school biology. You call it stupid and you call the person who wrote it stupid and move on, druckmann
I never understood why peopled hated Last of Us 2 when 1 has the worst ending in video game history
>>223407854It never made any sense, as the people reposting it don’t understand it.
>>223407920I'm trans by the way
>>223407913They probably could have come up with something tighter and more sensical but ultimately it doesn't majorly matter for the ending dynamic of "save the planet or save your daughter".
>>223407941>noooo my le heckin joel!
>>223407864>opting to vivisect her immediately.i should've stopped here >>223407323
>>223407992Sorry sneedy. That's what happens. Never even woke her up for an observation. Immediately scheduled to be cut up for the magic bean. The point is still you being upset and angry over me pointing out how the game is written.
>>223407308It’s cool that her gf is Jewish and looks like Dina
>>223407945No “they” couldn’t have. The creative process for the last of us was “uh, we want uh zombies but uh, like, not resident evil so not like a virus or bacteria, so uh, fungus so uh we can show off grafix. Also multiple endings are popular right now so uh, have them. But uh don’t do them in a way that it’s uh hard to get one of them. Okay that’s it make game” and that’s pretty much all the thought that went into it.
>>223407854>>223407929>>223407945
>>223407981I don't know anon, going on a warpath in the name of your murdered father and stopping right when you can cut the fucker's responsible for his death head off because "muh cycle of revenge" is about the worst way you can end a story. Few are the stories that can get away with it and tlou2 is not one of them
>>223408127It’s only “save the planet or save your daughter” if you are also telepathic and know for certain the quacks aren’t just going to kill your daughter and do shit for the planet.
>>223408153Go read your bible anon
>>223408127pointing out that the dilemma exists doesn't mean you're choosing the world. It's actually what you're doing (indirectly). You fight so hard to remove this dilemma because you know you would choose the world and that gives you dissonance
shit are we already at the point where druckmann is comparing his shit to scripture?
>>223408198The world caused this mess. Why does it get a child sacrifice to get itself out of a problem it caused?
>>223408101> Multiple endingsWhat?
>>223408247Larp
>>223408229the fuck are you talking about?
>>223408316You honestly sound like a poorfag
>>223408330>>223408316
>>223408374Keep working for minimum wage lil bro
>>223404843Id kill every man, woman, and child on this planet to protect my least favorite step cousin. My POV and my clan are the only things that matters to me. The only thing Joel did wrong was leaving before the job was done.
