The fact that a man of conviction, action, and loyalty such as Tywin Lannister is written as a villain everyone abandons and dies miserably but a cuck like Ned Stark who doesn't have a bit of agency, is a coward near-pacifist, and a bleeding heart faggot is the enduring hero displays the values of modern culture. That the Christcuck who loses willingly is valued higher than the man willing to do anything to protect his family and nation. That killing the enemy is wrong but subjugation to foreign rule is honourable and holy. You'll die but be remembered by those living under that foreign rule as a hero for allowing the occupation to happen.ASOIAF is an unintentional allegory.
>>223478382>loyaltyIs this supposed to be a parody post?
>>223478382Tywin wasn't the grand strategist he pretended to be. He got his ass handed to him by a 16-17 year old Robb Stark and only eventually won by violating Guest Right and paying another House off to assassinate him at a wedding (which ended up turning the entire rest of the realm further against the Lannisters in the long run).
shit bait
>>223478382>The fact that a man of conviction, action, and loyalty such as Tywin Lannister is written as a villain everyone abandons and dies miserably but a cuck like Ned Stark who doesn't have a bit of agency, is a coward near-pacifist, and a bleeding heart faggot is the enduring hero displays the values of modern cultureThe fact that this is how you see it tells all about your values i.e lack thereof.
>>223478410It's supposed to be a troll post
>>223478422>Tywin wasn't the grand strategist he pretended to be True.>He got his ass handed to him by a 16-17 year old Robb StarkFalse.>and only eventually won by violating Guest Right and paying another House off to assassinate him at a weddingFalse>(which ended up turning the entire rest of the realm further against the Lannisters in the long runFalse.
He wasn't even a good strategist, he just knew how to play the iron bank.
>>223478382Where do i begin with this?
>>223478382Tywin serves as a contrast to Ned Stark. Whereas Ned was bound solely to principle and duty, Tywin was dedicated solely to personal wealth and power. Both men are failed by their ideals but the books make a strong point that Ned's enduring legacy proved him right.
>>223478382>Obsessed with his houses legacy>Dooms his houseWhat did he mean by this
>>223479372>B-B-B-B-B-BUT BOOKS SAY-Nobody cares about the shitty books that won't be finished. Ned was a failure and the northerners rightfully ditched the retard Starks. Tywin's only problem was never killing that faggot Tyrion.
>>223479262>bls saar gib me gold>we golden lion rawr xd>i prowmise our gold mines are sufficient, im just not liquid!>havent you heard? a lannister always pays his debts>pls were the chosen family of westeroseyeah, played them like a fiddle
>>223479524>yeah, played them like a fiddleI mean it worked out for some time, didn't it? He was racking up massive amounts of debt. This was even recognized in the show, and that they had to end this war ASAP. Hell dude, it's even a whole season with Tyrion becoming hand of the king because Tywin recognized his midget of a son was atleast good with money.
>>223478382old man balls
>>223479224Didn't watch the show award>"B-But muh books!"Not relevant
>>223479718Even in the show, Robb has never faced Tywin in battle, Northern cause was finished after Lannisters allied with Tyrells and Red Wedding didn't make anyone think less of Lannisters. Everyone just kept repeating what a moron Robb was, even his family. It's fucking weird that you dismiss the books when the show gave no indication whatsoever that anyone aside from the Stark kids was angered by the Red Wedding.
>>223479458Showtards really think like this, huh.
>>223480085>Northern cause was finished after Lannisters allied with TyrellsIt was finished when Robb blew off half his army like a retard. First by marrying that Essosi broad and second by executing Rickard Karstark despite everyone telling him not to. Book version was more understandable and he's younger there anyway.
>>223478382What do you think about what he did in the Red Wedding?
>>223480629Defeating you enemies is based, actually
>>223481656In the battle, face to face, not like a coward setting them traps like that to kill them unarmed.
>>223481656>is defeated
>>223478422This. Him and his gimp son both sucked at strategy
>>223478382Strong agree, he was the BEST character in that shit show by MILES. After his midget son murdered him in the most cowardly way possible, the show became unwatchable.
>>223480544Random dickhead lords don't get to murder both captives and guards because they're mad.
>>223482149The show became unwatchable because that event coincided with D&D writing their own material
>>223482149His son couldn't kill him in any other way because he was a midget and he couldn't have fought him in a sword duel.
>>223478382Ned was a man of action. He was just too honourable. But he was a man of action who took difficult decisions
>>223478382>but a cuck like Ned Stark who doesn't have a bit of agency, is a coward near-pacifist, and a bleeding heart faggot is the enduring heroI don't want to spoil it for you, anon; but he kinda gets his head lopped off for being an idealistic retard.
>>223481688>muh honor! If you don’t duel me one on one you are a craven who needs to resort to cowardly trick-ACKKKK
>>223482621It is what it is and will always be like that.
>>223482621>literally has just been doing craven tricks the entire time in the Riverlands
>>223478382>How come people locked in bloody political game will murder and actively ignore the one person they cannot control and then go and support the one gullible guy that is very easily prone to be manipulated???
The first three books are so good :). I'm not a fantasy guy but is there any other fantasy saga that can hook you the way those first three books do? I've tried some other fantasy books and they always bore me, they're either too edgy in a childish way or just boring with their magic systems or whatever.
>>223478410Tywin told both Jaime and Tyrion "I have no son" immediately before his death
Why do pajeets want to be Tywin's bottoms so badly?
>>223478382You can interpret them however you like, but they both ended up dead
>>223482778Unironically no.
>>223479458Sansa is queen of the North according to your precious show
>>223482621Says the guy who got shot to death on the toilet.
>>223481656He defeated one enemy and created another ten
>>223482673>robb breaks oath and does something dishonorable >”woah wtf why are you breaking your oath and being dishonorable to me!”
>>223478382kek is there even a single accurate word in this post?
>>223483050You do not actually believe that breaking an engagement and replacing it with a slightly less favorable but still ludicrously advantageous match is the same as inviting people into your home for the purpose of murdering them at dinner.
>>223482778I second this, I'd like to read something with as wide a cast of characters and medieval political intrigue.
Tywin is based but has serious daddy issues and deeply fragile ego, if he wasn't such a cunt to his children House Lannister would unironically enter an era akin to the Targaryens
>>223483143>I will marry your daughter and produce many heirs :)a lie>Come to my home, I will not stab your whole family to death :) (except your cool uncle)a liethe only difference is in magnitude. why should some "atrocities" be held as unwaveringly evil while the atrocity you committed against me is cast aside as trivial? who gets to decide?
>>223479224>>He got his ass handed to him by a 16-17 year old Robb Stark>False.>>and only eventually won by violating Guest Right and paying another House off to assassinate him at a wedding>False>>(which ended up turning the entire rest of the realm further against the Lannisters in the long run>False.nigga did you watch the show? none of those are contentious things, all of that shit happened verbatim
>>223483143An oath is an oath Live by retarded northern honor die by it
>>223478382>constantly going on about muh house and muh legacy>wife dies birthing tyrion>never remarries despite being one of the most eligible bachelors in westoros>allows his eldest son to join kingsguard >treats tyrion like shit for something that was out of his control It’s the love is the death of duty shit, but retarded because he can’t just swallow his obsession with his oneitis and just enter a hollow political marriage to pump out some more blonde toffs. You can’t go on about how much you’re willing to do whatever it takes and then just sit out marriage for decades.
>>223480085>Robb has never faced Tywin in battlehe would have lost if he fought one big battle, maneuver warfare lil bro>Red Wedding didn't make anyone think less of Lannisters.lol, lmao
>>223483265There is no bridge in the world where the toll is you have to marry the bridgekeeper's daughter. Walder took advantage of a woman being desperate and bad at negotiating to do something he should have done for free, got slightly less than bargained for, rage quit, and ultimately got his whole family killed by wolf themed batman(girl).
>>223478382>Look mom I'm being contrarian again
>>223483396It's Walder's bridge, he can charge what he wants for it, up to and including one politically advantageous marriage>b-b-but Robb wanted something! Using the bridge was helpful to him, and he was the Good Guys!Letting the Northmen use the bridge for strategic purposes put the Freys suddenly deep in the war on the wrong side relative to the Lannisters. Walder was taking a huge risk, not just for himself but his whole family, their whole estate, and expected an appropriately large incentive for doing so. And then Robb welched on it.
>>223483459The Lannisters were currently attacking people the Freys were legally obligated to help. Robb and his army were traveling to help those people. The Freys did not ever offer a reason to not help beyond naked greed.
>>223483551The Tullys were revolting against their leige, why should the Freys be obligated to obey their leige in turn?
you seeAn honor-based society is an arch, not a wallyou take out one brick and it all comes falling down.
>>223478422Why did Roose go along with this plan? Isn't he 110% about self-preservation? He's extremely careful not to bring negative attention to himself, except in this one instance where he kills the northern king and lets his deranged bastard hunt women in his forests and skin and rape them. All the northern houses despise the Boltons more than ever and want them dead, to the point where Roose is using decoys of himself when he travels. What good is being the Warden of the North if you're on the verge of being assassinated?Fatman really shit up the narrative with the Red Wedding because he wanted his beloved grimdark so badly. Nothing made sense afterwards. In order for it to have happened, everybody had to be collectively retarded, like some really shitty horror movie
>>223479402His biggest mistake was not just finding a new wife to replace his trilogy of failed heirs
>>223484116After the red wedding the boltons have the lanisters and freys as insurance against any northern house that wants to start shit, and a host of hostages if the troops werent enough. The boltons have wanted to rule for centuries, roose is cautious but hes also ambitious. And if he didnt betray Rob he was stuck on the losing side of a war against the guy whos famous for murdering all of his opponents. The red wedding is perfectly in character for Roose and all parties involved.
>>223484840Tywin was ruthless, but he was reasonable, to a degree. What he had no patience for was vassals and defeated enemies who refused to lay down arms, or cooperate. Even if Roose lost on his side, Tywin likely would have allowed him to persist in his endeavors, granted he was submissive>"Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you."
