Why do highly choreographed fight scenes always feel so fucking garbage? People put so much effort into something that just doesnt feel real. It's in every major blockbuster now and it fucking sucks.>it's a movie it's not supposed to be realsuspension of disbelief
Chatgpt put mawashi on them
aww, theyre hugging
Why does the Matrix subway fight work, but the fight scenes in marvel movies doesn't?The Matrix fight scene isn't even 'real' in its own movie, so how could that be?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZVsVQwlc9Y
>>223656721They're not highly choreographed, thats the problem. Instead its all cgi and jump cuts.
>>223656721>Why do highly choreographed fight scenes always feel so fucking garbage?If they were highly choreographed they wouldn't be garbage.
>>223656721Give an example of what you're talking about, It's probably the editing that sucks, not the choreography.That and the fact you don't have nearly enough career stunties who specialize in the pro-wresting shit you need to do to sell a hit in an entertaining fashion.
>>223656886because he knows jewjitsu
>>223656886it's better choreographed and the fight is the main focus while marvel fights usually look bland with just guys throwing punches and it has a shit ton of cuts and happens in the middle of some bigger action scene, though I wouldn't say that matrix fight scenes are miles better.
>>223657028The first Matrix does have great fights because the agents feel real and dangerous. When Neo finally fights Smith, you feel like theyre somehow on equal footing for the first time, but then Smith still manages to win.It's basically Neo's character arc distilled in a fight scene.Also it feels actually real, like they're not holding back for the sake of recording, but theyre actually hitting each other. Those punches at 2:13 were real attempts at hitting Neo.The sequels throw all of this in the garbage.
>biwa music starts playing
>>223657652DIE MOTHERFUCKER
I guess because real fights aren't choreographed, so if it's too clean it's not convincing. It's just like watching Olympic karate, they've both learned all the same moves, you're just watching them spar to see who does them better.Sometimes it can work, like here >>223656886 - because canonically these are two hyper-capable fighters duking it out in a computer world, it makes sense that there be something visually robotic about it.But in a normal fight it needs to be sloppy, and it's hard to make it convincingly sloppy when you drill the scene over and over again.
>>223656721I watch action films at 1.5x speed and crappy looking drama slop at 1.75x. At those speed, the action becomes more visceral.
Watch better action movieshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm_KI4dfiXk
>>223657702LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOORLET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOORLET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOORLET THE BODIES HIT THE
>>223656721Because real fights are gay cringe, two retards swinging at each other, nobody does anything cool. It's an overcorrection but it's better than what we get in the real world.
>>223657028>look bland with just guys throwing punches and it has a shit ton of cuts and happens in the middle of some bigger action sceneAnd people say the movies aren't accurate to the comics
>>223657907That can be great though, some of the best fight scenes are just two retards wailing on each other because it's more immersive
highly choreographed
>>223656886Fun fact, the agents used a hard style of martial arts similar to karate, and Morpheus and Neo used a softer, more kung fu style.
>>223656721choreographed? chinese people fight unscripted
>>223657993i mean irl it's over pretty quickly once you hit the head
>>223658026
>>223656721Because MMA is boring horseshit for drooling mongoloids.People appreciate aesthetcsl and artistic skills, two meatheads doing windmills for a while until they fall on the ground and rub their crotches over each other doesn't belong on screen.
>>223658019i didnt know karate was a hard style
>>223656993>It's probably the editing that sucks, not the choreography.It's this OP. *Well-choreographed* fight scenes done by professionals look good. Poorly done ones do not. See Hector and Achilles from Troy as a well done example. See Nolan films for garbage scenes.
>>223657702I read somewhere that beavers were 67% gayer than the rest of the animal kingdom.
>>223657969
>>223656886Because it is built up over the length of the film and the fight has soul at its core
>>223656721Things have gotten bad, haven't they?
>>223658117>See Hector and Achilles from Troy as a well done example.That one might unironically be the best fight scene ever put on screen.
>>223656721>Summo BeaversMore!
>>223658156the sabine vs shin fight in the early seasons is actually one of the better disneywars duels.
>>223658219YYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>223658073Jackie Chan, Benny the Jet, Wheels on Meals. if you don't watch the full movie (and you should - it's fun) do yourself a favour and watch the fight on YT.
>>223658032>Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.
>>223658075karate is a hard style. you punch and kick in straight lines and you meet force with force. judo is soft style - you yield and use weight against opponents, etc
>>223658261>kicks so fast that he blows out a set of candlesyup, it's kino
>>223658048This is the most realistic "man vs woman" fight I've ever seen.
>>223656721>>223656886Well, it mainly depends on three things:1) Direction2) Talent of the fight choreographer3) ContextThe first two factors play directly into the third one. A smart director and a good choreographer will take the context into account. How skilled are your combatants supposed to be? In The Matrix, they’re superhumanly skilled, superhumanly strong, and fighting in an environment that we all know isn’t technically “real,” so it looks fantastic and feels real. Now the obvious comparison is capeshit, but in the bulk of those movies, it’s the direction that’s lacking, or to be fair, even when the directors are good, they’re frequently being hassled by the studios to crank out the “product,” so they end up settling for “good enough” and stitching together a Frankensteinian mess of a fight scene. Another situation you’ll run into is a low budget affair where the director/choreographer are looking to impress, resulting in fight scenes that are overly choreographed for just a couple of half-drunk lumberjacks in a bar, thus taking you out of the story.
>>223658280
>Action movie: protagonist is attacked by someone wielding a weapon; disarms them and wins the fight>You Were Never Really Here: Joaquin Phoenix brings a hammer to your house. He hits you in the head and you fall down, then he hits you in the head like ten more times and you die.Not a knock on your average action movie, part of the point there is spectacle, but YWNRH does a good job of depicting how unglamorous an actual "fight" with an armed attacker is.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT6JM1K7o1U&t=110s
>>223658236Grand Heya-gashira
>>223657652>>223657702Did you guys know that beavers’ teeth are orange because of how much iron is in them?
>>223658156Having the light-up sabers is great for practical lighting in a scene, but it's been fucking terrible for the actual choreography. When they had metal poles in the original six films the actors could really wail on each other (except for the original Obi-Wan Vader fight when they had the retro-reflective tape on the sabers and they were fragile as fuck). Just keep whacking until the pole bent and then swap out for a new one. Now the actors have to be careful not to break the light-up props.
>It's in every major blockbuster now>nowDid you just wake up from a thirty year coma?
>>223658026It's like Storm Riders but in real life
>>223658189Undeniably.
>>223656886I'll just add that Keanu Reeves is a major reason why fights in Matrix look good, he is incredible hardworker. Remember, it was supposed to be Will Smith.Reeves in my opinion is underappreciated, I almost never hear anyone mention him when discussing action stars. He is the reason why Wick series looks as good as it does. While it is stuntman galore event, Reeves absolutely keeps up with industry professionals and even Hong Kong action stars like Donnie Yen.He did admirable job in spite of his age and the fact that his knees basically don't work anymore.
>>223658048>sucker punches him from behindThat'll show him
>>223658413AKCHULLYhttps://www.acs.org/pressroom/presspacs/2024/april/iron-rich-enamel-protects-but-doesnt-color-rodents-orange-brown-incisors.html
>>223658156Jfc, it really is like Power Rangers. And of course a screaming woman to boot. Here, have a real lightsaber duel.
>>223658156i dont get how ten people with guns just stand there and watch instead of just unloading on her
>>223658117>While these results suggest that different types of rodents develop the iron-rich outer enamel layer in a similar way, the depth of the layer vary by species, with mice having the thinnest and coypus having the thickest layers.Coypus/Nutria are the poor man's beavers, but their teeth are great
A lot of modern choreographed fights feel less like people trying to hurt each other and taking damage and more like elaborate dance routines where the hero already knows where everyone is going to be at all times. The action is so smooth with no reactions to anything at all, just going through the motions.>>223656913There is a lot of that too but recently I've noticed a trend especially in animated shit like the netflix Asslevania or X-Men '97 where they have these specific, well animated (in contrast to the rest of show) scenes where a character takes down a bunch of bad guys effortlessly in quick order. I strongly suspect mocap might be behind it as well, watching the motions really does feel like I'm seeing a bunch of people doing something in a gym.
>>223658508I cant imagine the Matrix with Will Smith as Neo. Or anyone besides Keanu desu. Yeah his acting is a bit wooden but it works perfectly as Neo
Still the most realistic fight put to screen. Even with the clearly missed punches.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx8BEZg3e10
>>223658345>1) DirectionUhhhh just film it like a tv scene>2) Talent of the fight choreographerIf you use jump cuts, it feels exhilarating and intense! >3) ContextSomething epic and impactful for the trailer
>>223658345>they’re frequently being hassled by the studios to crank out the “product,” so they end up settling for “good enough” and stitching together a Frankensteinian mess of a fight sceneThis is seriously understated in case of studios like Marvel. There were now multiple directors who arrived on a set, asked about fight/action scenes, and they were told not to worry about it, because fight scenes are already done, while script isn't even finished. Who made them? Nobody knows.
>>223658609Missing punches is very common in real fights so that's cool in a way
Anyone got the webm of the shitty airport fight of Avengers: Civil War?
>>223658432Grim
>>223658346Holy fuck. Any one of those swats would probably take your head off.
>>223657907Real fights are 90% grappling until someone gets a decent hit to the face. People really overestimate how strong humans are, our brains are super vulnerable, one solid knock to the head and you are done. It's even faster with weapons, I've seen rekt gifs where a manlet oneshots a guy much bigger than him with a single stab. For some reason a lot of people really don't understand how quick and brutal real violence can be or why animals in the wild avoid it as much as possible, even if you come out the victor getting a life long injury is easy.
>>223658261Wasn’t the rumor that they decided during filming to stop pulling their punches?
>>223658541Huh … I wonder what’s doing it then - the stuff they chew on?
>>223658719if you read the article, it says:>Finally, the intense orange-brown color of rodent incisors doesn’t come from the filled pockets in the enamel, as was previously thought, but from a thin surface layer composed of aromatic amino acids and inorganic minerals.
>>223658662Don't ever go anywhere near bear territory without a gun, humans really don't have any way to counter them. Imagine trying to fight a sumo wrestler with Wolverine's claws without getting horribly fucked up, that's basically the equivalent of being attacked by a bear.
>>223658719They aren't brushing properly
>>223658729>aromatic amino acidsImagine the smell
>>223658719>>223658771It's carrots
>>223657702>>223657652>>223656721Why are they like this?
>>223658771What were human teeth like before toothpaste? I honestly want to know. I can't even imagine it. And what did people do about their butts before toilet paper?
>>223658658The really fucked up part is that there are unlicensed lightsaber toy companies who make light-up sabers specifically designed for competition level sword dueling and can withstand heavy contact and Prequel era choreography.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4is7h_cgzIHere's the same fight with edited sound.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmR5LoyZ4jwThe fact that Hollywood can't even get to this point anymore shows just how much the focus on CGI has fucked up all the other disciplines.
>>223656721Because they have guns, lasers, or magic, and they insist on punching each other.It's just retarded.
>>223658803We only got a ton of cavities when we switched to starch rich plant diets following the development of agriculture. Before that, hunter-gatherers had wide jaws with few cavities.
>>223658729Would one of those inorganic materials happen to be iron oxide? Because that color looks an awful lot like rust. Just sayin. Interesting article, though!
>>223658828That’s cool as shit.
>>223658346Love the environment destruction like it's an anime battle. Also the way they stop reminds me of something a lot of movies don't acknowledge, which is how awkward fighting can be. You don't always know how to position yourself, you don't know if your opponent is about to up the ante or back off, some movements will look completely embarrassing but might get the job done, so I think many directors just think "fight = cool poses and explosions because anime and Michael Bay" and don't give it much thought beyond that.
>>223658681>For some reasonI can't say this is the main reason but a big part might be that violence existing is taken as a given and is also avoided as a teaching topic. Nobody teaches directly about violence or its effects, probably because talking about it at all would be seenas encouraging kids to do it more, but schools don't even teach skills or how to do taxes so it could just tie into school being a boring daycare. But anyway as a result most people are completely incapable of properly defending themselves.
>>223658346I think I could tank a bear slap.
Shakey cam and quick cuts destroy any well-coreographed fight in a single second.
>>223658792>THOOM THOOM THOOM THOOM THOOM>>223658828>hey by the way, you don't hate the biggest media companies or hollywood enoughYou're right, thanks for fixing that.
>>223658792Gluttony, greed, wrath, lust... every sin in the book
>>223659032>thanks for fixing that.You're welcome.
>>223659006True, but another effect of that is strange delusions people have about violence. The autistic nerd types who've never been in a fight in their lives yet believe without a doubt that if they "had to" they'd turn into an unstoppable killing machine. Usually to save some lady. Respectfully. And, as a gentleman of course, without expecting any sort of compensation because that would be wrong. Unless...
Do you think Beavers (1988) will ever get an IMAX rerelease?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDwRmBCANvE&pp=ygUMQmVhdmVycyBpbWF4&ra=m
>>223659101What's it about?
>>223658606>I cant imagine the Matrix with Will Smith as NeoI can't even imagine just fight scenes with Will Smith. That being said, Laurence Fishburn actually did incredible job in combat scenes, for an out of shape guy.
>>223656721>Why do highly choreographed fight scenes always feel so fucking garbage?OP, I suggest you kill yourselfHighly coreographed fight scenes feel infinitely better than half assed choreographed scenesTry watching a Hong Kong flick from 35 years agohttps://youtu.be/NJwAM_L4U6o?is=7FQoj2r8_7LlsRxq
>>223658346I could take them.
Test
>>223659216nigger
>>223659216Nigger
OP btfo
>>223658803>What were human teeth like before toothpaste?Quite normal actually, because you didn't have fuckton of processed sugar in the air itself. They also did brush their teeth, they used herbal powder, or even fire ashes, vinegar solutions as a mouthwash, and herb mixtures to freshen their breath.Hollywood did fuckton of damage to the perception of ordinary life during middle ages. Just consider this - you have an entire gender that will get 57 urinal tract infections if they don't have stable temperature and good hygiene, do you think they lived in constant filth?
>>223659105Beavers, mostly.
>>223659335
>>223658803Europeans used to use shit sticks in public toilets. Some still do, it's really unhygienic, so jeets feel right at home there.
>>223659216Welcome back.
All will be cleansed on the day of the dam
Did you know beavers can boggle, just like rats?
>>223659335are jeets becoming unstoppable?
>>223656721because drama faggots have never been in a fight.unlike us rough and tumble toughies.
>>223658346Why are these beavers so much more agressive than OP’s?
>>223659522Beaver roids. That's why they're so big and aggressive.
>>223659522socio-economic factors
Here's that epic kino I was telling you about.
>>223659335I wish western films remembered how to have fun like this>>223659418I wish anons remembered how to have fun instead of baiting themselves into taking lighthearted posts completely seriously
>>223659716Fucking seizure warning holy shit
>>223659758You posted Jeet slop. You actively made the thread worse by posting that.
>>223659774Skill issue. If you can't handle some light seizing, then you're not a real anime fan.
>>223659798>YouNice try mister culture warrior, however you are actually the one making the thread worse by crying about it so much. Don't try so hard to fit in.
>>223659774It's an epic kino, it goes without saying.
>>223659847>No U!Jeetistan has never produced a single good film, and that's before they started editing everything to try and rip off Zack Snyder. If you genuinely enjoy any film coming out of India then you're a fucking retard, and if you ARE from India, well then you're just not worth paying attention to and I'm glad the internet separates us so I can't smell you.
>>223659918Well I'm not going to join you in your /v/-tier performative outrage, sorry.
>>223658566this is amazing. I always wanted to see three rubber mannequins hitting each other's glow sticks, rather than a guy moving at immense speed.
>>223659970>I don't actually have anything to say to defend Jeetistan or the shit they make.Well shucks, you sure told me. Faggot.
Why do beavers act the way they do? What drives them to beave?
>>223656721Supremacy in a real fight is almost always determined by size. I was at a Red Lobster once. In the lobster tank, two lobsters were fighting. At first the smaller lobster was trying his best taking the one almost twice his size fighting him. But even though their pincers were bound by rubber bands, and the bigger lobster couldn't inflict any damage on the smaller one, the smaller one just ended up chickening out and cowering in a corner. It was heartbreaking. At least the bigger lobster had the decency to leave the smaller guy alone at that point.
>>223660100He is nature's FIRST engineer. He's trying to build a dam, silly.
>>223660018I liked the first few seasons enough to watch them but it always annoyed me how they went from showing Flash being fast by showing him being fast to...using slowmo every time he went fast.
>>223658574i'd unload on her, IYkwim
>>223660100Why contain it?
>>223658609it"s not, it's just what plebbit told you to 'think'you've never had a fight, seen a fight or imagined a fight.
>>223660459>you've never had a fight, seen a fight or imagined a fight.Keep telling yourself that.
>>223658708bennie the jet has an interview on utube talking about it, jackie talked to him and said he hired him because he knew he could take hits, so he hit him. his face etc would be all swollen up after each take, probably not all makeup you see.
>>223656721>Why do highly choreographed fight scenes always feel so fucking garbage?Because fights aren't gymnastics competitions. So the over-the-top stuntwork immediately looks 'wrong' and not like they're trying to hurt each other. And then the stunts only work if the other person lets them work, so it almost always results obvious moments where the recipient is waiting to be attacked.Also, when they put that much pizzazz on the choreography, it normally means they're doing the same for the camera work. So you get a billion different cuts to show every action in the most 'optimal' way, which breaks the immersion and turns into a montage of stupidity instead of a fight scene.2 drama kids faking a fistfight in a single take with the camera placed correctly and good sound effects will almost always mog hollywood's bullshit just because it's at least grounded
>>223658353That film's fight scenes were trash.I'm still annoyed at the stairwell fight where the entire thing was obscured and filtered through a cctv camera because the director can't direct action scenes (she literally admitted this btw)
>>223658681they aren't grappling, unless you're a faggot.
KINOOOOO
