Why is the runback so shit in this game?
Holy shit that guy is BADat the game
Runback gives more weight to the boss fight, there's more pressure to learn and win. Normalnigger golems complaining that the game is actually a game should all be lined against a wall.Still not playing the faggot reddit game tho.
these people would shit themselves doing the Seath bossfight
>>720701261>Runback gives more weight to the boss fightIt really doesn't. You pretend it does, but all it does is waste time. You can let the player create their own "weight" by letting them practice efficiently at hard sections by offering save points and respawn areas at those locations, then letting the player challenge themselves with single-segment runs and whatnot after the fact. Forcing the player to run through the same repetitive non-gameplay trash sections over and over again is just developer narcissism and artificial engagement.
>>720701634>It really doesn't.It really does.>but all it does is waste time.And this is exactly how it does it. You don't want to run back, that's the point. It's a punishment for failure, an incentive to do better next time and win. It makes you dread losing again. That's exactly the point.>You can let the player create their own "weight" LOL? Play Mario Maker if that's what you're after. You're not playing a segmented speedrun game. You're playing Silksong. >Forcing the player to run through the same repetitive non-gameplay trash sections over and over again is just developer narcissism and artificial engagement.It's a punishment for failure. It's a video game. Simply don't play video games if you hate video games. Fuck off from my hobby and stop making me defend this shitty reddit game.
>>720701634all games are toys and a waste of time
>>720701820You typed all that shit and didn't manage to refute a single part of my argument. Impressive.
>>720701916I did, you just don't want to accept that you're a dumbfuck golem who hates video games and only engages with them because you want to be part of the current thing. You don't even have a real argument, your "argument" is that a punishment you admit to hating doesn't give more weight to potential failure. Are you sapient enough to understand how you defeated your own premise out of the gate, normalnigger?
>>720701261Wrong, if you actually want to give weight to it, then it should just follow what arcade games have done for a long timeWhat the webm showed was clearly just annoying, while the webm OP posted basically just showed someone with a skill issue. But after five tries, the guy would probably be able to do it consistentlyIt just ends up making retrying bosses more tedious, with longer loading screens, instead of letting you jump straight back into the fight if you fail>>720701821Having to waste time before you can waste your time playing the game is wrong
>>720702171>Wrong, if you actually want to give weight to it, then it should just follow what arcade games have done for a long timeMaking you start the entire game over again if you don't paypig?>It just ends up making retrying bosses more tediousYes, that's the point. It gives more weight to your failure and also your victory. Dying is something you shouldn't want to do. If it just respawns you in front of the boss when you die then you don't give a shit about dying.
>>720701261it's artificial difficulty. instead of giving weight to the fight by itself with tension building up as you get closer to beating it they just add a tedious part before it to make you feel like there's more to it
>>720702421>it's artificial difficultyAll video game difficulty is artificial.>instead of giving weight to the fight by itself with tension building up as you get closer to beating itWhat tension is there if there's no failure for dying?
>>720701245To be fair, he is playing at 4x speed
>>720701261Name an example of a bad runback. You can't because your position is always hinged on the end-user rather than considering a flawed design.
>>720701261Is there even a boss fight at the end of that? I thought it was just a small arena with some regular enemies.
>>720701261Whilst true, its the cheapest way to create tension. In the end its padding and tedious. They could also make the bosses take longer or give them a second but shorter fase, shit like this.The run back will become muscle memory at some point, so thats not adding challenge.
>>720702647>Name an example of a bad runbackLiterally any runback at all.Place a respawn point right before the boss or challenge intended to waste your time with runbacks, or you are a narcissistic fag developer.
>>720702504Artificial difficulty is defined by certain traps that is meant to trip up and frustrate players via design outside of engaging of the mechanics of the game.
>>720702835>Artificial difficulty is defined by certain traps that is meant to trip up and frustrate players via design outside of engaging of the mechanics of the game.Then how is a platforming segment before the boss artificial difficulty in a platformer? Maybe you're just fucking stupid and you should stick to watching youtube instead of trying to play video games because your tiktok friends told you to get hyped for this one.
>>720702959Tedium and overly punishing after a loss. It is by and large, pseudo-padding.
>>720703079>pseudo-paddingPractically padding*
>>720701261I think dying should boot you back to the main menu so that you have to reselect your save and then reload the game. That way there's more of a time commitment which adds gravity and weight to losing.
>>720703079So is your opinion that platforming in a platformer is needless padding and the game should be a boss rush that you can't lose?
>>720701261>>720703335It is the cheapest way to add tension, especially in a platforming game where the tension is literally derived in the platforming outside of bosses (which are obstacles that prevent progress to platform further). What's stopping this game from making it two screens back but adding those platform elements that the player had to go through just transplanted into the boss room?
>>720701261>Me when I'm in a "Justify devs shit design" competition and my opponent's a Team Cherry fan
>>720703374>What's stopping this game from making it two screens back but adding those platform elements that the player had to go through just transplanted into the boss room?What's stopping Counter Strike from just becoming a Vampire Survivors clone?
>>720703273It should just force shutdown your PC.
>>720703491You are not approaching this argument in good faith. This is my last reply to you.>>720703507It should brick your PC so you can runback to the store to get a new one.
>>720703395I'm not a Team Cherry fan. I thought Hollow Knight was completely unremarkable and have no desire to play a sequel, and I think the fanbase is obnoxious as fuck. That's why I told anon to stop making me defend this game. There's nothing wrong with runbacks. You simply don't like video games, you want to hurry and clear it so you can be part of the current thing and you get mad when the game is an actual game that challenges you.
>>720701191??? Isn't there a bench right next to the screen right before they died?
>>720701191How can you be this bad? I suck but even I'm not that bad
>>720702293Intentionally tediousFancy words for saying worthless piece of shitJust admit the game is bad
>>720701191The worst runbacks are blue smelter and the double tiger fight in ds2. Fuck those runbacks. Those niggers can live. Alonne is fine, and I never had an issue with him, much less his runback.
>>720701191The only bad runback is the frog
>>720703680>Intentionally tediousHow is it intentionally tedious when the core of the game is platforming and optimizing movement?>Just admit the game is badThe game probably is bad but runback is not the reason why.
>>720703747but as soon as you figure out the frog never attacks corners the boss is kaput. and even then the runback doesnt feel that long its like 2 minutes.
>>720703079>artificia difficulty>tedium>padding>respect timeAll you have in your tiny little brain are buzzphrases redditors told you to parrotYou are the sheepst of sheep, utterly unable to form one single original thought, utterly trapped in your own little mental prison of internet outrage addiction. You don’t really care about any of this, you are just desperately trying to feel like you care about something, and the>latest video game controversy clickbaitis your outlet to feel something. I would pity you faggots if only you weren’t the sole reason the entire medium is turning to shit. Fuck you.
>>720703732>the double tiger fight in ds2.Jesus Christ, why did you remind me of that you fucking fag.
>>720702293>Making you start the entire game over again if you don't paypig?Like, yeah, why even give you a glorified save state in a bad position if you end up being able to retry the bosses countless times anyway?>If it just respawns you in front of the boss when you die then you don't give a shit about dyingMaybe it’s because your game allows you to do that? There’s not even any real consequence for dying you just lose some currency, which you can just grab it again anyway. So why bother making it tedious? In arcade games, if you die, you lose a life which is a bad thing, since it can potentially kill your entire run
>>720701634git good faggot lmao. FAGGOT. LOL.
if there were no runbacks then you would whine about having tediously grind through the first phase before getting to the real boss fight
>>720704208what boss? hunter's march doesnt have a boss when you first go through it
>>720701191It is unbelievable at first when you die on a boss and then realize how far and bullshit the runback is. I think most people would really feel this first on Last Judge, not the Chapel of the Beast because you can just skip it for the time being. But then you learn to smooth out the runback and it's not too bad. The game is still not that great with all the pointless padding of empty rooms.
>>720701191How would these zoomers react to any old platformer where you had to redo the entire level if you died?
>>720704437Then it's not really a runback is it? Just going through the level like any other game
>>720704437if there were no runbacks then you would whine about having to tediously grind through the first few diagonal pogos on the screen before getting to the wall jumps
>>720704529Save states, cheat codes, or they don't play them at all
>>720704437If I restart my save, is the runback to the abyss the entirety of the first two acts? I will complain that the game has poor replay value because there's too much in between to get to the "fun" parts.
>>720701191>fails to pogo a stationary target that doesn't hurt you six timesIs this really a thing that people have trouble with?
cavestory only had one of those in the game, and that's for the hidden final boss.sounds like the silksong devs got autistic with designing their game.
>>720704208casuals are literally always going to complain about any obstacle they can until games are streamlined into braindead, failure-proof experiences.
>>720701191why is the fucking retard fighting everything on the way back. You only do that when you're exploring.No wonder these people think the game is "way too hard".fucking morons.
>>720703943Because the very concept of it just haunts me>have to trudge through blizzard>rng respawning reindeer that actually violate the game's no respawn mechanics have to be dealt with and they're broken outside of the respawn>the area is specifically built to be ran through as co-op>boss fight is just ass>your reward is a shitty shieldOne of the worst experiences in gaming.And the iron passage, it's clear they ran out of time.
>>720704529This is Gen A. Zoomers were the one that were thrashing out Ninja Gaiden with touch controls in Hardcore Mode on their phone so they could post to Retro Achievements and call the game shit to make boomers seethe.
>>720704657cave story is also basically completely forgotten because it's mid.
>>720704654Yes, when I played the game for the first time, never played Hollow Knight and forgot the last time I even played a platformer, and using a controller. Switching to keyboard and mouse is way better.
>>720701261>Runback gives more weight to the boss fight, there's more pressure to learn and win.the pressure to learn and win a boss fight should come from the boss fight itself and not arbitrary punishments like wasting a player's time >Normalnigger golems complaining that the game is actually a game should all be lined against a wall.you are shitposting in a thread of a game you have never played and a genre you never actually dabbled in, because you would know that gravelord nito, seathe, bed of chaos, executioner's chariot, etc, had godawful runbacks that EVERY player hated which caused from to stop doing runbacks in ds3 and onwardsgo neck yourself, fucking poser
>>720701261The devs already said that runbacks mean the game isn't just a boss fight simulator between platforming segments, which makes sense.
>>720701191I love runbacks, get filtered shitter.
>>720704767I don't understand why people play through Frigit Outskirts alone. That, Iron Passage, and the Cave of the Dead are all meant to be co-op experiences. The large gravestones at the start are locations that summon signs will go if you place yours outside the DLC areas, so people without the DLCs can get summoned there and get DLC weapons without owning them. And even if you're offline the game gives you three NPC summons to assist with. Summon them. Gang rape the frozen reindeer. Gang fight the 2kats. That's literally what the area is for.
>>720701191Silk Song would be a much better game if you were given 3 lives at the start and got more lives by collecting points. Lose all your lives and it's game over. Save points are casual and boring game design.
>>720704208Nobody is complaining about the presence of runbacks, just that it is badly implemented in some cases. People can't accept that because they want Silksong to be the 10/10 game they hyped it up to be when the very glaring flaws are staring them at their faces.
>>720705125Go play Steel Soul mode then.
>>720703571Last room before he fails the jump six times up and to the left 30 rosaries
>>720704864>Switching to keyboard and mouse is way better.This I definitely agree with. I honestly can't believe they somehow think this game works better with a controller.
>>720705228>Go play *game mode that only unlocks after 20 hours of slogging* thenFTFY
>>720705228>one life>no way to get extra livescringe and not gamey enough
>>720704713tbf those flying ants can easily hit you if you try to bypass them>>720704514technically The Last Judge is optional too or at least skippable for a while, I did that accidentally by getting to the citadel through the mist>>720705241goddamn I thought I was going crazy with anons saying that this is a controller game, it works so well on keyboard
>>720701191>why is difficult game difficult
>>720704657Cave Story's runback is good since it's a segment that you want to git gud at so you can actually get back to the boss with most, if not all, of your resources in-tact. (I assume this is the point you wanted to make)OP's webm, minus the extreme skill issue segment, is just extended periods of time spent walking to the boss instead of having something worth gittin gud at along the way.
>>720701261Every game should be Hardcore only, if you die your game license gets revoked and you have to buy it again. That gives way more weight to the boss fight. Normienigger golem NPCs like you complaining about "money stolen" should be all lined against a wall.
>>720705241It's like they don't know how most people play video games or something, or that they don't really play anything else but Hollow Knight so they're totally used to their own wonky control setups and think it's normal. Even though keyboard and mouse is very likely the best way to play the game if you're not great with the D-pad, their default KB+M bindings is totally not usable and not intuitive. It's like they've never done any extensive user testing on the game ever, which is remarkable.
>>720701191hollow knight platforming is shit.
>>720701261It's not a game, it's a chore. >>720704967No it doesn't make sense, that's exactly what I want. Repeating the same section over and over isn't fun>>720703335You already had to do the platforming to get to the boss the first time retard.
>>720701191its a shit game. The demon souls of gen z.
>>720703552>It should brick your PC so you can runback to the store to get a new one.the devs should be waiting at the store. You need to get through them to earn a new PC.
>>720701261this is a fromsoftware slurper, everyone>unfair game design is PEAK!You'd love all these shitty NES games
>>720701367Seath from Dark Souls? That boss is easy, though. I assume most people do it on their first try and never have to worry about crossing the invisible bridges again.
>>720701634The runback shows your mental state. If you take any damage during the runback then you're not ready to kill the boss. Also I don't remember this one so I must've done that fight first try lol
>>720701367The Seathe runback in the Crystal Caves is literally crossing two WIDE invisible bridges, that the game automatically signed with a soapstone by default. The golden golems you first encounter there don't even respawn. That's it. You'll have more trouble fighting your way through the crabs in Seathe's entrance than you would running through the caves. That's the entire level design philosophy of Dark Souls distilled into one runback. If you want to get all the items, you're gonna have to suffer some traversal bullshit but most of the time if you don't care you can literally run past all the bullshit to get to the next boss room.
>>720701191runback is cringe and only trannies defend it, it doesnt add value to them but inflate/pad a game's runtime
>>720702171Loading screens? Its a hand-drawn 2D platformer, loading screens. Also, the devs seem to think the runback is in their core gameplay loop. Better learn the patterns quick so you don't end up dying all the time like a scrubWhen you finish your game that you're making you can auto-respawn at the boss door
>>720701261I am so tired of Hollow cucks.
>>720701191I usually don't say this but this is very obviously a marketing post so, buy an ad.
daily reminder that only a complete NPC would let themself suffer through Silksong runbacks
>>720704864>>720705241>>720705627Playing on a keyboard is crazy. Can you imagine playing Metroid, DK, Mario, Mega Man, Ori, etc. on mouse and keyboard? Sadists
>>720701191Same as hollow knight, it's because the devs are retarded assholes and to buff up play time, i stopped fighting nightmare grimm because he wouldn't stop introducing himself with the shitty black screen "NIGHTMARE GRIMM" every single time.>>720701261Difficulty=/= tedium all the run back does is waste my time
>>720701367No one has ever died to seath
>>720701261>Runback gives more weight to the boss fight, there's more pressure to learn and win.>"every time you lose to the boss we'll waste 1~5 minutes of your time"Gacha tier tactics
>>720707820if it works on a d-pad it works even better with arrow keys, you use three fingers to do what you'd normally do with only the thumb so it's objectively easier unless you've never done it. I even played all of Super Meatboy on keyboard
>>720707985no runback in the game is even close to 5 minutes, at most it's 1 and that's basically how long some other games just take to load (and others yet even have unskippable cutscenes that play every time)I can't help but feel like anybody crying about the runbacks in this game has never played a game made before 2010
>>720707991You never need to press A and D at the same time. Or W and S. So you don't need 3 fingers...
I'm noticing that the blisteringly loud and retarded minority keeps pushing and pushing for team cherry to CONTINUE to nerf this game into the ground. I also feel like there are some bad actors in this horde of morons that are doing this so they can shitpost about them bending the knee to casuals. I really truly hate the internet.
>>720707434>Its a hand-drawn 2D platformer, loading screensIdc about art shit, your platforming is static as shit. After 3–6 tries, anyone can be consistent with it. At that point, it’s basically a glorified loading screen. Why even bother?
>>720701191Wait, this entire section is the runback to a boss?I 100%-ed Super Meat Boy, and I uninstalled Troonsong after dying to the three plants at 0:04 when attempting to do diagonal pogo with a microscopic hitbox and non-existent vertical distance because I respect myself and don't waste time on bad platformers made by incompetent amateur devs.
The runback is part of the boss fight. It's a fucking platformer. Unironically get good at it.
>>720708191>You never need to press A and D at the same timebut you can go from one to the other faster, and you can keep up and down inputs completely separated from your left-right movement.I'm not saying that the d-pad isn't enough mind you, I played HK on PS4 and I never thought "I wish I was on PC so I could use the keyboard", but the arrow keys have no downside over it while being faster and imo easier (for an example think about having to do successive upward slashes while quickly moving left and right, with kb the middle finger keeps the UP input and the two others do the movement independently like always, with a d-pad you have to somewhat awkwardly shift your thumb to keep the UP input pressed while also moving and it's easier to accidentally do a sideways slash)
>>720708273>be runbacktard >keep running back like a retard >seethe because smarter people just kick back and force devs to add more save points so they don't need to run back like you KEK
>>720701191time you wish you had a console
>>720701191That's not even a boss. Do people expect to respawn on the same screen everywhere now?
>>720709151Unironically yes. Kusoge like Celeste conditioned them to expect every single screen to be a piecewise mini-challenge.
>>720708273Maybe stop shilling your turd and calling it a hardcore game everywhere, when it's basically just a practice mode simulator with long loading screens
>>720709624>2hu tard thinks he has room to complain about shilling
the game should auto save every time you hit a boss so if you die it keeps all the damage, having to redo the first phase of a boss after you've already learned it is just pointless padding
Silksong has taught me that the next Elden Ring game should have longer runbacks againDemon's Souls got it right by accident
>>720709856runbacktard had five minutes before his next boss fight to come up with something and this is the best he could do KEK
>>720701191OH NO I HAVE TO WALK FOR 30 SECONDS BACK TO A BOSS FIGHTWhy don't you just get good you fuckign scrub? If you play the same segment over and over and over, and get WORSe, then just give it up bro.
>>720709787At least touhou doesn't fake hardcore
>>720701191This isn't even a boss...
>>720709909so what's the difference between a platforming runback and a first phase that you can do without taking damage?
>>720701261Runbacks should be exactly as long as it takes for me to think:>Hmm, what did I do wrong that time, and how I can I handle it better this timeI think the only two that were egregious to me were the Verdania and Bilewater runbacks, especially because I never found the bench for the latter. I also wasn't a fan of the Act 3 boss runbacks where you have to wait for the song to finish, wait for the loading screen, wait for the waking up animation, etc.
imagine using benches at all. Im ruuuuuuuuuning back from start of the game every time boss two shoots me, just like devs intended.
>>720709934Yeah, hahaa, oh shit why do boss attacks now do 2-3 damage or combo into 4 dmg attacks. Oh all the masks you collected were pointless and now you still get 3 shot :)Oh and the boss won't have a tell which of the 3 attacks that go in vastly different directions its going to use.Ty for playing our game.
>>720710513only real gamer ITT
>>720708273I fucking hate casuals.It's so bizarre seeing gaming come full circle from the late 00s where the industry was obsessed with casualization and "gamers" despised it. "Hardcore games for hardcore gamers such as myself," and so on. This is one of the reasons why Dark Souls was such a success, beyond Demon's Souls status as a cult classic and Bandai-Namco's marketing (as much as I dislike the marketing); the game went against the grain and offered a challenge that never held your hand or compromised its integrity to "appeal to a wider demographic". Now people will not only admit that they're casuals, they'll do it loudly and proudly.I can't think of any other medium where people petulantly try to co-opt any specific media that they believe doesn't directly cater to their personal preferences. It would be like people who like Marvel movies deciding to watch arthouse classics and complaining that they're tedious, boring, and should be dumbed down because they deserve to watch them. Gamers don't grasp the concept that they don't have to play or like everything, and that there's some shit that just isn't for them.
>>720710818I agree and to your last point its just gamers feeling entitled to experiencing everything catered to them. We went from having easy normal hard difficulties to people opting into hard and then crying to devs to make it easier.
Imagine crying about having to play the game seriously just stick to unengaging slop like rdr2 and bg3 if you hate real video games lol
>>720710818>>720711051you can tell these noobs used benches GET OUT OF MY THREAD BENCH USERS
>>720710818There are hard and fun like Sekiro.There are tedious and unfun games like Silksong.You are an autismal retard.Simple as.
>>720711051To be fair, Silksong doesn't have a difficulty setting. However, I don't think it needs one. People should learn to appreciate that people having a shared experience like Dark Souls or Silksong is worthwhile and meaningful. It's fun to struggle alongside others and discuss it. This is true of more narrative-driven games that aren't necessarily difficult, as well; but I think a shared gameplay experience is more meaningful.
>>720711181do you honestly think you're clever or funny
>>720711197that's like, your opinion. Maybe you are ass at 2D games and this is why this one makes you mald?
>>720711197I like both, so whatever
Why are people trying to rush through this game?
>>720701191>runbackIs this new zoomer slang? Exhausting.
>>720711256No. I am just smarter than you my mental capacity allows to analyze game design detached from my own personal experience with the game.
>get through the level without taking damage>have more health to use against the bossIt's a feature, stupid. It's your reward for learning to play good.
>>720711250baby used benches and now it thinks it beat the game
>>720704654im terrible at them but its mostly because im terrible at controller diagonalswhen i get frustrated i swap to the dpad and get them way more reliably but i hate dpad because its so small and shit
never realized how bad people are at video games until you give them a jump that isn't in a straight line, jesus christ
>>720703872> 2 minutesonly if you find the secret bench which I found by complete accident
>>720711445>walk into previous room>smack nearby enemy for silk>walk back an in again and repeat until you've healed>continue with the same amount of health you have had for completing the level perfectly but now your time is wasted
>>720701261This is truth. Lives and continues need to come back in full force so we can actually get fair and challenging level design and bosses. I think back in the day playing megaman and stuff, they never got obscenely hard with the boss fights because it was intended for the level to be a part of the challenge too. The reason why we have insanely difficult boss fights today in shit like elden ring is because they've turned it into a boss fight simulator where you respawn in front of the fog door every time, same idea as doing the same super meat boy/celeste level over and over again because restarting is only one button press away.
>>720711523it's almost like there's a reason why every 2d platformer in existence has avoided doing it
>>720711380>my mental capacity allows to analyze game design detached from the only thing that mattersgood for you, I just play games to have fun>>720711445sadly invalidated by the fact that your cocoon fills you with silk and allows you to heal immediately>>720711562I mean on that line of thought you could farm beads until you can get 100 rosary strings and never worry about losing them ever again
>>720701261You should kill yourself when you lose so losing the boss fight has more weight to it
>>720701191I did this a couple times before fucking off to explore somewhwre else instead. People are just stupid and bash themselves against the wall so much they expect it to break and when it doesnt they get all pissy.
The actual true reason players hate runbacks is core gameplay is just unfun.>hitboxes are pure junk>hunter pogo has tiny hitbox, but reapor pogo hitbox is so huge, it can damage enemies through shields and platforms>hunter pogo has no room for error, reaper pogo is literally just easy mode>you can do a perfect pogo right into the enemy, but enemy hitbox can still touch and damage you>parry system is useless, you can parry attack and still get hit by it>some attacks require perfect timing for parry, for others you can just mash X and it will save you 100%>flying enemies are pure cancer always hovering 45 degrees from you and dashing away>bosses are just bullet hell in everything but name>too many FUCK YOU moments made exclusively to fuck with the player one single time
>>720701261While I do not mind the runbacks, even though they made me just say "ehh, I'll do it later" because I didn't want to go through them again, it'd be much better if there were more stringent, longer platforming/combat sections while travelling the areas/towards the boss battle with a quick continue if you die.
>>720701191This game really opened my eyes about howmany fucking shitters there are on /v/, the boss in the webm is not even a proper fucking boss, you only have to fight like 8 different types of ants in a row, and the map bug helps you all the time. Same with moorwing, guy has like 4 attacks easy as fuck to dodge, the runback is like 20 second from the bench and you can get the Quixote bug to help you, and even then the entire boss fight is fucking optional, you can get all the fleas and move with the caravanSame with last judge, the runback is 30 seconds, I actually timed it because of some many anons bitching about it, the boss does 2 hearts of damage but if you struggle too much you can equip the fire resistant charm.What the fuck are guys complaining about, are guys not runnning during runbacks and trying to kill everything between you and the boss or waht?And the only boss that is a bit unfair is the bestfly with the summons, but that's and optional fight and you can always go back with your bail upgraded.
>>720701191I'm not a fan of runback on bosses but that's not a runback, that's just normal level. I wish the game had checkpoints (not save benches) before bosses, that would be perfect.
>>720711861I can't let go of reaper, I don't care if it's slow and inefficient for combat, the pogo is too damn sweet. i could adapt to hunter, or I could not and stick to the easy mode. If they really wanted the diagonal pogo they should have stuck with it and given it to every crest
>>720712089>and the map bug helps you all the timeidk if it's about the order in which I did thing but that bitch never came to my aid anywhere
>>720708191But you often need to press S and A or D at the same time to pogo and down attack. That diagonal action is dumb luck on a thumb stick, and impractical on a D-pad.
if this has shown me one thing, its how inelastic low iq people are. Normal people easily made switch from "its good" to "wait it sucks actually" once they got their hand on the game and experienced bullshit for themselves, but iqlets cant seem to make this switch. no wonder marketing works, if retards will feel compelled to defend something like this just because they got caught in initial hype.
>>720701634Holy shit, this is some reddit "father of 3 love video games but have no time to play" bullshit right there. Git gud or don't play it at all.
>>720712486>you are all just too stupid to realize you are not actually having fun playing the gamefor being so high IQ you seem to really struggle with the idea that not everybody likes the same things as you
>>720701261No. Just no
Gay Bugs Sex
>>720712089I blame - I don't know what to call it - the decline of shame. At some point people simply stopped feeling shame for anything they do or believe, whether it's jerking off to anything or everything, believing the Earth is flat, or getting filtered by video games in their free time. They view the Internet as a way not to discuss things, but to reinforce and gratify their own preconceptions. Anyone who disagrees with them is mentally ill, autistic, retarded, a faggot, a nigger, a tranny, etc. And conversely, the Internet is just a faceless mob and can't impose shame on people in the same way that real communities used to do, which served an important social function. This is all doubly true on 4chan where there's no way of knowing anything about anyone you're talking to beyond the content of their post.
>>720701191Silksong is the linux of video games, it's for those who don't value their time
>>720708482>Wait, this entire section is the runback to a boss?The guy is retarded, there is another bench right before the last room where he fails his jump 6 times in a row.
>>720712636not what I said lil bro you can enjoy pointless runbacks and still understand how pointless they are despite being enjoyable to youwhat happens is that NPC do the thing without understanding, open forums and see people not put up with the bullshit and then seethe cuz they got played
GUYS IM GONNA WAIT FOR IT READY???? IMRUUUUNIIIIINGBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK
>>720701261seething replies are elden ring fans
>>720701191The game actually has too many benches
>>720701367It was a long run but that's not the one that broke me, it was Gwyn.
>>720712959Bilewater's actually fun if you don't know about the second and third bench, putting checkpoints ahead every 30 seconds just defeats the purpose of designing levels
>>720701191I thought you guys loved ds2 here
wtf is "runback"who comes up with all those new fucking termswhat happened to backtracking
>>720712320 She showed up in like two places for me and both times it was after I already cleared the area. Felt like she was just rubbing it in. I think her "help" is on a timer or area trigger that assumes you're still lost when she pops in, but if you're like me and explored too thoroughly, she just ends up being late to every party. Whole bit felt weirdly undercooked, honestly.
>>720713390retard
>>720712703thanks gpt
>>720704967Just because the devs said that, that doesn't make it true.
>>720713457Can't a man use dashes in peace? It's not even the em dash that AI loves so fucking much.>--
>>720701191>Mega Man figured out the optimal way to do checkpoints in these kinds of games coming up on 40 years ago>Idiots that think tedium is a substitute for difficulty still get it wrong
>>720713603Are you sure about that? Megaman is a totally different beast.You get a few chances to beat the boss, having a checkpoint right at the boss door, but then you get kicked back to level select if you run out of lives and will have to go through the entire level again. This works in Megaman because it's the dev's way of saying "try a different level instead, acquire the boss's weakness, and come back later." But Silksong bosses don't have weaknesses that destroy them in three hits. If you had checkpoints directly next to the boss area and then dying three times teleported you back to Bone Bottom, people would be PISSED!
>>720701191runback to what?theres no bossfight there and beastfly has a bench in far fields that you will notoce if you can only stop sucking cocks for 5 seconds and look at the map
>>720713390The older alternative term would be corpse run, although it doesn't fit here because I don't think hollow knight has the drop your shit mechanic dark souls has
>>720701191>mindlessly brute forcing some shit theyre no good at>not just going anywhere elseremoving the runback and spawning retarded players right at the boss would have people camp and never leave things theyre clearly incapable or ill equipped to do. The game is a platformer, the runback is part of the challenge.
>>720713871I think people would enjoy silksong a lot better if they actually bothered to try equipping new items when theyre sent to the bench.
>>720701191>even miyatardzaki managed to figure out long boss runs arent fun and add nothing to the gameyeah this game is not winning goty
>>720714137I experimented with the various throwing tool weapons, but I used Thread Storm for the vast majority of my playthrough. The only thing it lacked was a few i-frames, but that would've made the Counter skill and the Dark-Dash move completely irrelevant. Rage Rune was a bad version of Thread Storm.
>>720714092>The game is a platformer, the runback is part of the challenge.This. Demon's Souls is a dungeon crawler, crawling the dungeon is part of the runback. Same shit here. HOWEVER, this doesn't apply to runbacks that have literally no gameplay. I'm looking at you, Karmelita.
>i'm good because I've beaten single player game! bruh
>>720701191FOMO game
>>720701261The difficulty of the runback should scale proportionally with the difficulty of the boss fight. In essence, is the boss fight an extension of the stage, or is the boss fight more or less a self contained entity?
>>720714416this
>>720714418Leechmonger my beloved
>>720704863Cave Story is much better than any hollow knight though
>>720701261shockingly based for a stupid pol spammer who doesnt even play games.
What is the difference between a runback and the first 90% of a boss's healthbar after dying just before beating it?
>bumble around like a retard and get hit a lot in most areas of the game>unless it was part of a boss runback, in which case my trauma response engages and without even thinking about it I do a perfect speedrun line without getting hit or stopping or generally ever letting go of RT>get to empty boss arena and realize the place I needed to go was in the middle of the areaCan't just be me, right? Hunter's march was a kick in the dick in general but I kinda like the runbacks in this game. It would suck ass if it was just walking to the boss in a straight line and dodging enemies but the level layouts and tools you have make it fun to git gud at being fast. I don't think I've found a runback I couldn't thoughtlessly careen through in 30 seconds after way fewer tries than the boss took.
>>720714740I like the runbacks because the movement is so fluid and fun
>>720701634>Run halfway through an obstacle course irl>Fall off>Not allowed to just climb up where I fell off>"Erm I already did that part, things that I have accomplished should never be done again"
>>720715005I genuinely saw someone a couple days ago suggest if you beat a phase, the next time you fight the boss it should skip that phase and distribute its health among the other phases.Like what are these retards even asking for? They can't just accept that sometimes you lose a game, it doesnt mean the game is inherently flawed.
>>720708169I played HK and 1 everytime you lose sucks if you lose multiple times, add that to how many bosses you'll have a hard time with and it gets multiplied even more>never played a game made before 2010with emulation that shouldn't be that much of a problem and i don't remember crash or spyro cucking me for 1 minute each time i lose, it's been long since i emulated them but I'm pretty sure that in crash if you lose to tiny or dingodile you immediately restart the boss fight instead of them kicking you out to the level select hub world(I'm talking about crash 3 warped), the only time you actually are thrown back to the start of a level is if you lose all your extra lives which is fair and rare enough for it to be negligible.
>>720701261If what you're saying is true then how come the true final boss doesn't have a runback section?
>>720701191>He needs multiple attempts to kill the bossDo shitters really?
>>720715284Because it has four phases, making it an endurance test all on its own
>>720715169if you lose all lives in Crash Bandicoot you load back to your last save, which includes losing any progress you could have gotten in the level like destroying all boxes. Granted that's unlikely to happen but that's because shit's easy, try playing through Rayman without cheats and you'll know real pain (tbf Rayman has built-in cheats, which imo is a thing that should return in single player games. In Silksong for example they could make it so using them disables achievements for that playthrough)
>>720707985
>>720715327that should be the game design of all game bosses instead of runback sections everywhere whole game felt too easy and the runback sections were too easy as well but maybe that's just because I'm a metroidvania pro
>fromsoft thread>everyone seething that they started putting graces/bonfires right before the fights>silksong thread>everyone seething that they have to spend 30 seconds running back
>>720715356>try playing through Rayman without cheats and you'll know real painI'm not into cbt
>>720715378The game's difficulty really is a meme. It's Dark Souls all over again, with people refusing to play the game the way it was designed to be played. Once anyone can adapt to the game design, the game clicks and bosses rarely take more than 2 tries.
>>720715479bilewater is about as close as we've gotten to a graveyard/tomb of the giants DS1 since it released.
>>720701191I don't even remember that section lmao. What boss was it for?
>>720712089outrage/drama culture
>>720715541the greatest filter of brainlets of all.Savage beastfly.
>>720715541not even a boss but the ant arenaday 1 people entered hunter's march as 3rd zone or even 2nd and quit
>>720701634>i'm le chad it does and you're a mental child who lacks discipline, platforming is inherently part of the game and its exploration and if you haven't mastered it you have not beat the game
Now that it's been debunked that adventure games only lead to fake difficulty, when will developers bring back arcade game design?
>>720715634What's the correct order? Hunter's March feels about right for the 3rd area.
>>720701634/THREADBASED AS FUCK
>>720715479Agree. People just don't want to learn how to play.>player pogos with Hunter crest once>Oh, diagonal pogo? That's scary and different...>Give me my old, familiar pogo from Hollow Knight instead!>20 hours later>player hasn't learned how to sprint in combat>player hasn't learned how to clawline in combat>player is still using Wanderer crest, awkwardly walking up to the boss, and spamming attack with limited range>when that fails, has no idea what to do>player goes online and writes a seething manifesto about how flying enemies are "badly designed" and it's the game's fault that he can't close the distance
>>720715690not if youre a retard like the player in the gif.You want (need) atleast the dash, and would benefit from having the glide too.
>>720715690You're likely supposed to go through it to access the connections it has to the Far Fields and Deep Docks before tackling the deeper sections. The one arena you have to fight will likely have Shakra help you during it as well assuming you didn't somehow blind her in every area you can first meet her.
>>720715479>bosses rarely take more than 2 tries.I don't get how people beat bosses blind with low single digit tries.The only boss I beat in less than 3 tries was the first one.If I had to guess, my average is proabably 6-7 tries.
>>720715690Hunter's March is supposed to cockblock you, and I believe the "safe" path is to just go from the Marrow to Deep Docks, and then Far Fields from Deep Docks. The big ant guarding Hunter's March is doable without sprint, but much easier with it.
>>720701261So true, I can tell you really do play videogames and a lot of them. Actually I would even say the game should uninstall itself too. That way you get the pressure and anticipation of re-installing the game which gives you time to replay the fight in your head, refining your tactics and developing a plan for the next attempt. There's more pressure to learn and win this way and something about normalfags and reddit too.
>>720715912It varies, but people are also retarded when saying that bosses don't telegraph their attacks. The hardest telegraphs I've seen are from Lace since she has 2 or 3 attacks that have her crouch, but the position of her pin is different, which fucks me up specifically since I usually try to pay attention to the stance of the enemy's body instead of what they're holding.
>>720701191if you dont die to the boss, you don't have to do the runback
>>720715991>the game should uninstall itself tooThere are games that effectively do this by essentially bricking themselves to stop you from playing again, though obviously they're not known for their difficulty.
>>720701634Basado.
>>720706730elden ring doesn't have runbacks
>>720703872never attacks corners? but his spit bubbles and when he emerges after a dive and his soul attack do reach the corners>>720705740gitting gud at pogoing is important
The only really shitty runbacks in Silksong are in Bilewater and to a lesser extent Verdania when it comes to bosses. Last Judge was annoying but it's not long, I think the biggest issue was that ONE conchfly that had like a 50% chance to decide to cockblock you if you tried to go under it quickly, other than that there are no enemies you need to engage with if you know where to jump (and I think they removed/moved that conchfly now?).There are some other annoying things like playing Needolin to cutscene for memories (part of why Verdania is shit), the Coral Tower gauntlet, pretty much every gauntlet in Act 3 with voidniggers but most aren't because of runbacks (unless you forgot to grab a bench beforehand).Also while not an issue for me, I noticed that one of the first climbs in Mount Fey right after you can get the map is oddly tight on the freezing timer which I've seen scare a lot of people off from trying to keep climbing because it gives them the idea that they are not supposed to go there yet.
>>720716432its openworld slop. 90% you do nothing but walk empty fields of nothing
>>720716665
>>720701191I'll admit that looks lame, but once you figure it out it should be simple
Just a PSA: cross stitch (the parrying skill) completely changes the gameplay and allows you to be much more agressive vs bosses. I figured silk skills were worthless against single bosses until I found it. Doesn't help much with runbacks but you don't need runbacks when you destroy the bosses.
>>720714028>corpse runah alrighti didnt realize what was going on in that webm
>>720714028>I don't think hollow knight has the drop your shit mechaniIt does, you lose all your money and some of your maximum bar
>>720716792I agree, my reaction to openworld games and fromslopware in general
>>720716838>cross stitchyou didn't beat the game
>>720716838okay but have you considered>architect crest
>>720717531The upside with cross stitch is you don't have to farm shards for every attempt. All it does is bring gameplay to the same level of agression and closeness to the boss you'd usually find in HK.
>>720717989>i need my iframe dash backthat's what you implied
>>720718042Not him but impact damage is so shit in this game that I would kill for some extra i-frames
>>720701191>mostly well executed>fumbles the last triple jumpHate to see it.>>720701261It's a balancing act and while that specific example in OP isn't that bad, you cannot tell me Groal (even with the secret bench) is a good runback.
>jannies have started banning Silksong threadsIt beginsSoon you'll have to discuss the game in bait threads like this if you want to at all, this is how it always happens
feels like TC really ran up against the limit of how far you can push bosses before you need to just get rid of touch damagethe telefragging got really bad on a few bosses
>>720718290>Banned for posting in a "general"And yet they'll allow a Deltatroon thread because there was a newsletter. Nothing new to play, literally just a "It's coming guys!" update.
>8 hearts>still can't beat Whiteward boss >double jump still clips him sometimes >thought he has two phases>LMAO it never ends This is horrible fight. How to cheese him? Full load of tacks isn't even enough
>>72070119145 degree angle is the hardest boss in the game
>>720718420conchfly kino
>>720716838>cross stitchCool but where do you get it? In act3?
a /comfy/ thread died for this
>>720718290>Synthetic Cuck eceleb thread is up for 24 hoursKino
>>720710409Reminder to anyone playing the game, you can avoid having to pogo at around 0m12s. Just jump and hold the float. You'll get enough distance to close in on the wall and then dash forward to grab. Also bipasses the enemy entirely.
>>720718418just go back to him later after you get the two act 2 nail upgrades
>>720718418hit him when he emerges, then sprint away and jump onto the wallif he's spitting stuff, you have time to either slide down or jump higherif he charges, you will already be safein phase 2 the spears spawn in a fixed pattern; they don't care about where you are. Factor this in positioningIf the boss emerges in the middle of the room he won't do any attacks so you can get a ton of free hits/heal heredon't blow all your tacks at once, just lay a couple down in p2 and p3
>>720701634crinngado
>>720705740It's also just really fun with good music so getting cinderblocked in 1 hit doesn't feel nearly as bad
>>720718471You can get it in act 1Go through the mist
>>720718675why would you subject yourself to that shit in act 1
>>720701191bro that's not even a boss just a gauntlet at the end how are you so fucking ass
>>720718418>Hit him>Parry when he charges at you>Occasionally jump up and healIt's literally that easy
>>720718584Sprinting also killed me few times tho. Sprint animation doesn't instantly cancel into jump. This is pretty annoying and I think anons argued in last comfy threads about it.
>>720718420It’s actually really hard to program slopes in video games because its all done manually by checking one pixel to the left and then one pixel down. And it fucks up all the time. Im an amateur game developer and yeah slopes are one of the most annoying places to write code.
>>720718675Can you find Mists without guide? I remember hitting every single wall in Sinner's Road and still missed it.
>>720715774nothing wrong with wanderer crest thoughbeveit
>>720718675Pretty sure the game never explains how to get through The Mist. I got spoiled on it relatively early on and was just going through the game until I got to the point where the game tells you what to do there, but that never happensNot sure what TC was doing there
i need help im stuck in far fields i got 2 spines once but then they just stopped dropping, also i cant go back anywhere its too high up
>>720718802you can also reach it through bilewater, I found it both ways in act 1
>>720718913you need to hit the spines the mob shoots out once they're stuck in the wallit's the only collectible item that functions that way in the game
>>720718868Shakra mentioned about alternative "hard path" to Citadel though birds I think When she's around Craw lake with bench
>>720718418Just spam conchcutters in phase 2.
>>720718868it's just one of those "bruteforce puzzle": you know you have to do something and you'll try everything until you find itjust like the 5 pillars to get the music sheet, it comes out of nowhere, you try things, even if you think the answer may have been mentioned before
>>720701634>non-gameplay trash sectionsBut they aren't non-gameplay and they aren't trash.
>>720718965you mean the blob that shoots diagonal shots?
>>720719041okay but that doesn't explain how to get through the area, just that it exists
>>720718965ah fuck thank you i didnt even notice they remained in the wall after being shot
>>720719121yeah
>>720718868>Not sure what TC was doing thereThe game fucking sucks at naturally guiding players to act 3. NPCs barely give any hints at hidden areas or what to do with items, and the map is fucking terrible at allowing you to find stuff you might have missed because it makes it seem like you explored everything already. Also there's a ton of stuff that seems important but actually fucking isn't so that also doesn't help as the player is constantly distracted by red herrings.I didn't need a guide for the HK true ending but absolutely needed to look up shit for Silksong multiple times already because of this.
>>720719120>you don't fight>you don't progress the story>you don't explore>you don't get anything>you just run through from A to Bthis is padding of the non gameplay type, which can be considered trash by many people
>>720719130Yeah I thought it's just text fluff after clearing Craw lake and Sinner's Road.
>>720701191>20 seconds>this is too long Shiggy. ADHD-kun
>>720701634NEETroons malding and dilating at this
>>720701191>Not using the float to line up your down attackMaybe calm down for 2 seconds and you won't play like you're lobotomized.
To the Mists, that's it. I hope /v/ legends about this locations are not true.
>>720719345Are you stupid?
How do you fail to pogo a straight line of targets
>>720719345>"ADHD-kun">Lil bro can't even notice the video is sped up x2-3
>>720715376This is kinda pathetic when /v/ will shit itself. Are they lower than /v/ lmao
>>720718418Does he do 2 dmg per hit?
>>720701191lmao is this the cuphead guy?
How organic, Randy
>>720719310Platforming isn't non-gameplay. Silksong is a platforming game. It's not just a boss rush.
>>720715479That is a Demon's Souls meme, not a Dark Souls one, my autism won't let this slide.
>>720719905Not suspicious at all
>>720719924>It's not just a boss rushand when did I mention that? Are you retarded? I literally mentioned>fighting, exploring, storyAnd your takeway is "oh he thinks that's a boss rush">b-but what about the platformingoh yeah, that part you've already progressed and done? wow that's so interesting. Do you actually stay at moss grotto in the first room for an hour just because "platforming isn't non gameplay"?You fucking hypocrite that can't understand criticism. Of course I want to do platforming, but I'd rather do something new that optimizing the run back just because.Fucking retard.
>>720701191so you can talk about it instead of the lack of gameplay improvements for 7 yers
>>720720172>You fucking hypocrite that can't understand criticism. Of course I want to do platforming, but I'd rather do something new that optimizing the run back just because.Do you say the same thing when you die in Mario, Donkey Kong, or Crash or whatever?
>>720701261>Runback gives more weight to the boss fightartificial difficulty
>ctrl f karak>0 results foundArtificial difficulty the movie the game
Runbacks are good for games that are about exploration, discovery, or resource management. For games that are heavily boss focused and expect you to die 5+ times for each one, runbacks are bad because they make the dying and learning experience miserably tedious. The "punishment" in games like that is being walled until you get good, nit in having to waste minutes before you even get to try again.
>>72071591290% of bosses and normal enemies share the same handful of moves, with only slight variationpretty much everyone has somethng like>forward lounge>2-3 slashes>jump into downwards attack (sometimes diagonal)>larger aoeLike I remember someone had posted Lace as a supposedly difficult fight soon after release, but when I got to her I one shot her because her moveset is almost identical to those generic ant warriors you fight in hunter's march earlier.
>>720719310Exactly. Runbacks are padding just as much as backtracking is. The only exception is when the challenge in its entirety is supposed to be the level plus the boss, like Demons Souls.
Bros, I slid my finger inbetween my butt cheeks and smelt it
>>720701191Nobody complains when they fail a rock climb and have to restart from the bottom again. If the act itself of playing the game isn't fun (regardless of if it's content you've already played through) then why are you playing the game
>>720701634>chad pic>weakass pussy opinion
>>720701191>runbackBack in my day it was called back tracking.
>>720721689not the same, anime retard.
Was Hollow Knight generally fair with these in comparison?I dropped that game after I beat up the girl you play as in this one, it was like playing Aria of Sorrow if I never got a weapon cooler than the knife and the maps sucked ass
>>720722012if anything hollow knight had worse (more boring) and longer walks to most bosses.
>>720722075So its just npcs aping other npcs, like how everyone claims sword + shield on back is op in darksoiuls when its literally the worst way to play and the entire reason people think that game is hard (as magic, pyromancy and miracles all 1-3 shot even boss fights and great shields 100% block all but 2 attacks in the entire game at near no stamina cost and 0 skill)
>>720721851yeah it is.
>>720701191Not just the runbacks are shit, the backtracking itself is also shit.I completely clear out an area of all enemies, then I go to a new area, realize I didnt get everything in the previous area so I go back again, and all enemies have respawned. This shouldnt happen and is incredibly tediousThe game just loves padding gametime
Silksong is just really tedious, I am now at 50 hours so everything is piss easy and fast to kill but the first 20-30 hours or so were really annoying when it comes to fighting enemies and bosses. Last Judge, for example is just a fight that goes on and on forever. I was playing for so many hours on that day that by the time I reached Last Judge, I was extremely tired and sleepy that I could not be calm and focused enough which got me killed so many damn times. Next day, I beat her on my second try just by being patient. But even when I killed her, I still felt exhausted because it simply lasted too long. As someone who loves level design more than boss fight, I seriously have boss fatigue with how many bosses these hard games have.
hollow knight made you waste your time literally everywhere, sprinkled with annoyance.This game doubled down on it in order to MUH LONGEVITY MUH SIZE FOR 20 BUCKSIt's tedium, borderline filler, padded to extreme.
>>720718735the only problem with it is figuring out the secret, otherwise it's not even that hard including the boss.Shamefully I admit I looked up the puzzle solution but I didn't even remember I had gotten the needolin by that point so it would have taken me hours, but I did come across the location completely accidentally
>>720713221wasn't the path to gwyn like a single hallway with 3 knight enemies?
>>720722012I think this was the longest Hollow Knight runback, I'm not some platforming pro but I recorded a run for comparison. It's probably worth mentioning though that this was the runback to an extension of the stage type boss, it was literally just a bigger normal enemy with one new move.
>>720701261>Runback gives more weight to the boss fight,soulsfags need to be removed from the internet. theyre a blight.
>>720720621>WhataboutismWe're talking about silksong, not X, Y or Z. Why do you want to compare? Does it makes you feel better because "this game's worse?"And why aren't you even comparing it to direct competitors, like GAMES IN THE FUCKING SAME GENRE?Oh... You never played any other metroidvania, you're that king of guy...
>>720722392Its not even a "soulsfag" thing lmao. Fromsoft has put safepoints in front of bossrooms for the last 10 years. Dark Souls 2 was probably the last game they did that had runbacks to bosses, after that they removed it almost completely
>>720722392Bro, if anything, these are not soulfags. These are genuine HK cultists. Even FS embraced checkpoints with stakes of Marika.Everything is perfect in the bugs' little world, or it's just 'uh gid gud, skill issue, working on my save'.
>>720722385I haven't played hollow knight in years, and holly shit, my memories are spot on.Peak annoyance: the game.
>>720701261Idk man. I watched a Youtube video of the big bell hammer guy's patterns so I had to bother less with the runback. That didn't add weight to the boss fight,
>Annoying runbacks/backtracking>Open Cheat Engine>Turn on invulnerability/infinite dash>Turn it back off when I reach my destination>Yep its gaming timeI will never ever deal with artificial tedium forced upon me by developers. I will always download cheats and/or mods to remove artificial tedium forced upon me by developers.Suck a dick
It's like people are competing for the worst takes on why they didnt like a game.
>>720722552idk I can think of several bosses off the top of my head that have runbacks in DS3, and they tend to be as long as the longest runbacks in SilksongThe only souls that properly removes them is ER, the most middling one
>>720722392its not soulsnigs. Soulsbourne bros recognized this flaw years ago. Its the hollow knight apologist cultists who hail this patience testing marathon as the holly grail of gaming since its release.
>>720720621Mario level design is far better than silksong level design though, that’s the difference. Hornet, despite feeling much better to control than knight still does not hold a candle to the feeling of controlling a character in an actual good platformers.
>>720722717>DS3You do fucking know that DS3 released a decade ago? In 2016? Were you even born? It released even before HK.
>>720705740OPs webm is extremely dishonest because there is a benchcvery close to where he died that he either missed or ignored. Probably the latter because everyone is a disingenuous fag on the internet and especially here
>>720722669based. indie darling niggers who think that padding their game with tedious obnoxious wandering filler is a smart way to prolong the game and is considered a "game design" need to get a clue
>>720722717>uhmmmm HK and SS runbacks are good, because uhmmmm, it was done in other games 10 years ago!!!!!!The state of cultists.
>>720719941It's okay anon. I knew, too. I knew.
>>720722717DS3 had some but it was already miles better than DS1 or Bloodborne. Sekiro also had savepoints very close to bosses throughout the entire game. And Elden Ring basically just removed runbacks alltogether.Its Team Cherry that didnt get the memo
>>720722770*platformer
>>720701634trvke
>>720722852father gasciogne has one of the longest runbacks in souls history.especially when you're a beginning of the game shitter.
Silksong has exposed the extreme casuals that pretend to be actusl gamers on this board. Always remember this when some fag on /v/ tells you to git gud. They probably got filtered by moorwing lol
>>720722928I said it was miles better THAN DS1 or Bloodborne.Meaning that Im implying runbacks in Bloodborne were fucking horrible.
wtf I have to run all the way back if I die to the boss?! Why don't I respawn at the start of the bridge?!
>>720707883Not to Seath himself, no.
>>720722989i actually happen to think ds3s bonfires 20 meters from eachother is worse level design than their previous games.
>>720701191>dying in a fight that gives you a helper during itunironically git gud
>>720722717nigger, ds3 is 10 years old. Take any soulsbourne\like in recent memory - no such retarded thing. Hell, you don't even have to refer to From to do it right. Say, Lies of P did everything right, straight to the core, straight to the action, without prolonged padded shit. Team cherry did this because they got away with it 8 years ago and have indie darling status. Besides, they obviously jerk off to exclamations that THE GAME IS HUUUGE by cultist retards
>>720722975Im 22 hours in and Ive beaten every single boss in less than 3 attempts. I still find the runbacks fucking shit game design. "Its a skill issue" is bootlicker cope
>>720701191all of that because the retard didn't find the bench and/or figure out how to disarm the trap.
The late game removes runbacks and replaces them with something even worse.>play needolin for several seconds>animation of hornet falling over>animation of hornet standing up>run through empty screens in dream world for a couple of seconds>die to boss>slow animation of hornet waking upAt least on a runback I'm actually playing the game.
>>720722975>tee hee I actually like spending 5-10 minutes with annoying platforming every time I loose to one of the 1000 bosses, I'm a real hardcore gamer!sure thing, simp
>>720722775>a decade agodon't remind me.Anyway despite what the niggers that go "it's become like CoD and FIFA" would want you to believe there simply aren't that many souls games.DeS, DS, DS2, BB and DS3 all have sizeable runbacks, only ER doesn't and it's also the one that has you fight the same boss a dozen times and that's by far the most of a slog to go through despite the statues of marika>>720722834I'm just saying that they definitely didn't stop at DS2 you autist>>720723051>Lies of Midlol ok, also bosses in that game are way way harder than in Silksonf
>>720723254>lies of midpleb to the max
>>720723059No, you don't understand. The game is perfect beyond perfection! >uhmmm how can I make sure he knows he's bad at the gameUhmmmmm, SKILL ISSUE!!!! SKILL ISSUE!!!!!
>>720723341are you enjoying yourself bro?
>>720722156you aren't going backwards, you're going forwards
>>720701191Correct the game intentionally wastes your time. Glad I can contribute to its negative reviews on steam.
>>720721689backtracking is what you do in most of act 3 because it has no content, most of the shittiest bosses of the game, and the game gives no clue as to what you're missing / what is required for the 100%
>>720723530holy buzzwords
>>720723254>I'm just saying that they definitely didn't stop at DS2 you autistCompletely missing the point. Its not about when they started or stopped, it was a gradual processDS1 and Bloodborne had the worst runbacks, then it became better around DS3. And then Sekiro and ER came and they almost had none. Its a gradual process of Fromsoft learning the player didnt enjoy this. The point is that Team Cherry, for some reason, refuses to take the lessons a much bigger company than them learned, but instead stubbornly holds on to long runbacks. Either that, or they did it on purpose for gametime padding
sick twatter post
>>720722552>soulsfag>>720722610>>720722718dark souls era had runbacks. ER is a new era of fromsoft where they removed it. for obvious reasons. fromsoft is moving away from soulslike if that isnt obvious from Radahn. Its darksouls like not fromsoftware like. I should have made that clearer imo but its still the darksoulsification of the game.
>>720701191Death to phoneposters
All challenges are not created equal.Some are designed well, and some are trash.Team Cherry are mediocre developers who could not create interesting challenges, so they padded with things like corpse runs.
>>720722392We have Stakes of Marika now. Nice try.
>>720723579>Adjective used to accurately describe a thought or feeling about the subject of the writing.>Y-y-y-you're using buzzwords!Does silksong have the most insufferable fanbase of all time?
>>720723776Really? The new Dark souls game has it? No it doesnt. Fromsoftware ditched dark souls but dark souls is still infecting every other game.
>>720723750Oh this game is the king of padding>No clues to what's left on the map>Gauntlets after gauntlets after gauntlets to mask some of the shittiest bosses they made>Having to farm currency to craft tools (not to talk about the insane rosary prices through the game, you never have enough even if you don't die>Act 3 is a filler act with the worst bosses of the game except 3
>>720722075Hollow Knight doesn't have any walk backs after the halfway point. The game gives you a Dragon's Dogma style fast travel system where the player places fast travel points, just plop one outside the boss room and teleport to it from the bench every time you die.
>>720701261>annoyances are good actually
>>720723327a completely linear soulslike with garbage level design is pointless, they should just have gone full action game. The bosses are the only interesting part anyway.>>720723596Fair, but Sekiro is its own thing and pure action so it doesn't belong in the discussion imo. ER on the other hand has so much riding your horse from A to B already that also giving us runbacks would have been plain masochistic.The longest runback in Silksong is what, a minute? Which is comparable to the one for Rennala in ER
>>720723958they could have hemorrhoids, if it somehow was Hornet shaped, they'd love fucking love it
>>720701191>Mostly positiveuuuuhhhh... trans sisters? Our neovagina?
>>720722479>Does it makes you feel better because "this game's worse?"You misunderstand me. It's not whataboutism cause I'm not even arguing that one of them is "worse" than the other. I'm arguing that it's not a problem to begin with for any of the cited games, Silksong included. And that the platforming is fun. And I brought up the other games because I'm curious of your perspective. >Oh... You never played any other metroidvania, you're that king of guy...Holy fucking shit you're quick to jumping to conclusions.
>sperg about complaints for runbackif runbacks are so great how come you retards arent sperging about the strange lack of them for certain fights like first sinner or lost lace and so on. bit of a betrayal of your own convictions there guy. i mean theres no runback there. you should immediately quit the game and kill yourself. yet here you are
>>720723971>The longest runback in Silksong is what, a minute?It's actually insane how much these faggots are seething over it in this thread. The only run back that sucked was bilewater, Which you don't even have to do.
>>720724558>The only run back that sucked was bilewaterI'd say it's a skill issue from your part.
>>720724707I beat the boss on my second try, I'm not the best but I'm clearly better than 99% of /v/
>>720724558>Everything is fine except the fight I lost the irony...
>>720723916oh yeah I didn't even know there was nail upgrades at belltown so I had been fighting through the end of Act 2 with level 1 nail.All because I missed a single jump point in Belltown.Their mapping system will show an area as "cleared" even when you haven't seen it yet, so it leads you to think you've already explored that area.This has also happened in numerous areas of the map, where Team Cherry decided to show an entire room as cleared even when you have only barely touched it.The gauntlets are also a pain, they should be used as a novelty not as a "one per area" thing.And I'd rather just skip 90% of the content than farm rosaries.
>>720725031>Their mapping system will show an area as "cleared" even when you haven't seen it yet, so it leads you to think you've already explored that area.in some areas it does show you that you didn't explore part of it but only occasionally, very odd
>>720725031>waah waah I can't exploreNot my problem
>>720725686Don't tell me you bought MAPS to play the game? You didn't beat the game...
>>720725787??? His (or yours if you're that big a retard) problem was that he relied too heavily on the map, faggot.
>>720701634My emotions tell me you're wrongbut i can't really disagree
I be honest but both Hollow Knight and Silksong are peak fake difficulty. I don't have time for games trying to pad their run time with bullshit. I'm too old for shit like this. I want games to decompress from work not games that are work.
>>720725907Doesn't change anything. You didn't beat the game as it was clearly envisioned by Team Cherry.
>>720726002Do you even know what you're arguing for or against?
>>720701191Dude just missed a bench.
>>720715005it's an obstacle course with a single obstacle in it retardwould pole vaulting be any cooler if you had to walk for 5 minutes before you could do your vault?
>>720726112That's a skill issue for sure... For you, I mean.
>>720701634>another anon hates vidya episodeit'sallsotiresome.jpg
>>720701261No... There are limits and shit like bilewater has well past them.
>>720726227>constructive criticism is hateYou sweet cultist...
>>720725979go play Starfield then, "dad gamers" usually know instinctively to stay away from games like Silksong it's just that all the buzz around it attracted many a shitter
>>720726261If OP had posted Bilewater, this thread would be different. No one should be defending THAT runback, but there's nothing wrong in principle.
>>720725979>. I want games to decompress from work not games that are work.you will get called a dad gamer but its actually how a lot of people feel. theyre tired of the "sweaty git gud grinders". People forgot a game should be fun.
>>720701191Just stop dying you fucking casual
>>720701191this isn't even hard. they even removed the flying ant at the top of that bounce section and made the collision even bigger for the bell peppers and you gusy are still havign trouble?
>>720701191dude I'm so fucking mad I have to fight HK every time before I get to fight the radiance
>artificial difficultyI am more and more convinced this is a term people came up with to avoid admitting to themselves that a game is difficult and that they are not as good as they thought they are
>>720726896No it's a logical process people use call thinking, reviewing what they experienced in their playthrough. Something you can only do when you have a brain and you're not a cultist.
>>720726415>>720726363I never heard that term. Is this some Zoomer term for people who don't want to deal with bullshit. I beat Hollow Knight and got the first two endings but the Radiance and Grimm were bullshit and I was like nah I'm good. I started Silksong but to be honest, I was burned out from this games. They aren't bad games but they just lack a lot of QoL things that other games in the genre have. Silksong map is probably worse than Hollow Knight because the currency sucks balls. Now there's two shit to keep track off. So the series instead of adding QoL actually made it worse. I wonder if the creators of this games are huge masochists or something. The original Metroid didn't have a lot of stuff because it was an NES game but later games in the series started to add QoL upgrades. I ain't writing my own map in 2025. I did that shit in 1989 when I was a small child and got this game as a Birthday present. It was a good thing the NES controller was the brick it was because had this been an Xbox controller I would have broken a couple of them. But even then I feel that Hollow Knight and Silksong are harder than Metroid which is something. In fact it's harder than Castlevania Symphony of the Knight and Mega Man X which the games definitely take from those games. The difficulty of this games is bizzare and idk where they got that from. I played hard indie games before but they usually have respawns right where you die.
>>720726896I'm still not even sure what the term is supposed to mean, the difficulty in any game is arbitrary and artificial and given that people have different skill levels it's impossible to draw a definite line between good and bad difficulty
>>720725686>waaah Team Cherry can't develop interesting explorationnot my problem.Also retreading the huge map over and over for one thing you missed != exploration.
>>720727402Yes dude, not being able to look up in Bellhart is Team Cherry's fault
>>720727323NTA but yeah, it’s a bad term. I think a better term would be “cheap” or “lazy.”
>>720727487Yeah, glad you agree.In other areas of the game, if you don't explore the top area of the map they will not fill it out.But sometimes, they do fill it out.They only apply this rule sometimes because they are not great developers.Next talking point? You're as jewish as the developers are.
>>720727487I bet you used a guide.And it is TC's fault that Act 3 is so bad, with no indication on what's missing, true. Thank you for acknowledging it.
>>720727272"dad gamer" is used to describe the type of player that just wants to relax and play a game an hour at a time at most, it's often represented by dads in their early thirties who don't have much free time anymore hence the term. It's not an inherently bad thing by any means, but they sometimes engage in games that are notoriously "hardcore" and then complain about them despite the fact that they clearly aren't the target audience, and since the mainstream gaming industry already caters very much to the more casual gamers this can rub the ones into more niche and difficult/complex stuff the wrong way>>720727739>“cheap” or “lazy.”those are definitely more apt to describe "bad" difficulty and questionable design choices
>>720727740>In other areas of the game, if you don't explore the top area of the map they will not fill it out.It is not my or Team Cherry's fault that you rely on a map being filled in to determine if you've actually explored it, which is not what it has ever meant.
>die to a boss>have to fight him all over again instead of just restarting at the hp level I got him tofucking bullshit timewasting design
>>720728028I don't mind challenge in my games. I loved Expedition 33 after all but Hollow Knight and Silksong was more rage inducing than Expedition 33.
>>720728065>which is not what it has ever meant.It has though.Team Cherry embrace this idea and leave parts of the map unfilled until you actually explore it. Meaning that they themselves meant for that to be a mechanic of the game.However in other areas of the game, they fill out the entire area before you explore it.How can we explain this haphazard application of a game mechanic?For a game that often relies on finding a small item in a huge labyrinth map, that is bad game design.
>>720727323Not him while I agree that people are just spamming it out of nowhere, I personally just call it tedious. Basically, it's the part that’s either too easy, too static, or just unrelated to the part that actually causes problems, yet it still affects your game for exampleHaving to run another 50 seconds through the same stage that might have been challenging at first, but after 4–5 tries, you’ve gotten good at it now it’s just another straight lane, which is exactly what this thread is complaining about
>>720728385Perhaps you should just explore
>>720701191>Why is the runback so shit in this game?Because they made it into an even bigger chore than the average metroidvania, tryhardfags will seethe and moan about git gud or being better at the game, but as always, they're missing the point that the traversal is the objectively worst part of any metroidvania, making it difficult for no apparent purpose is not a good thing, but a garbage design decision.
>>720728449Moving the goalposts again, rabbi? No rebuttal for the fact that they DID intend it to be a mechanic in the game?Perhaps the game developer should:1 - Better apply the mechanic they developed for revealing areas of the map, so as not to apply the rule in some scenarios and not apply them in other, giving the user mixed signals.2 - Otherwise make exploration more interesting and fun.And perhaps you should:Examine why you cannot take their cock out of your mouth and have a single critical thought about the game.
>>720728131but some players like rage inducing, unfair difficulty in their games, like say playing Tainted Lost in The Binding of Isaac.Hell I consider myself pretty casual and after 20 hours I'm still having a lot of fun in Silksong, while I'm sure that other easier games might still be too hard for me.Anyway don't worry about the "dad gamer" thing, like usual it's a term that's often thrown around even when not appropriate
>>720728449That's so funny how you cannot be more clear that you've never actually played any other Metroidvania, ever. Most of the stuff the anon is asking already exists in many many of these games since decades ago. Yet TC just hates their players (who wouldn't hate babies throwing tantrums for 8 years).They could shit in your throat and you'd love it "if you can't swallow it at once, it's skill issue" lmaoooo
>>720728663>>720728689I'm sorry but a key point of a Metroidvania is to explore and find secrets. You can both cry as much as you want that the game doesn't hold your hand as much as you'd like but it's just embarassing.
>>720728741>a key point of a Metroidvania is to explore and find secretswhich is why Team Cherry fumbled so hard, they failed to make a metroidvania where exploration was fun and rewarding.Part of that is their misapplication of the game mechanics they developed. But part of it is that the game is simply not that fun.
>>720701634Troon Cherry drones hated anon because he told them the truth.
>>720728868>which is why Team Cherry fumbled so hard, they failed to make a metroidvania where exploration was fun and rewarding.Explain what isn't fun or rewarding about it, go on.
>>720728868Sorry anon, it's hard to take you seriously when your opening statement was "I was too retarded to look up at Bellhart"Perhaps another game will be more your speed.
>>720728741So does that mean buying the locations of the remaining fleas is bad? Because the goal of a Metroidvania is to explore and find secrets!Explain to me how you're gonna find those very last upgrades necessary for the 100%, without using a guide or resorting to going back and hitting all walls with ZERO actual thought. Oh lil bro, if only you played only Metroidvanias, you'd get it. How many people used guides/looked up at maps? For god sake, there are almost as many people who found the cursed ending than finished act 3. You gonna tell me the majority of these people didn't use a guide, because the game is shit at helping you locate the last things you need?
>>720729270Moving the goalposts from >I couldn't find the weapon upgrade in Bellhartto>WHAT ABOUT 100% COMPLETION!This is fucking pathetic.
>>720701191Don't like it, don't play it. Simple as.
The truth is that almost all the bosses have a bench not that far off. The only exception would be maybe Bileheart solely because its possible to miss the hidden bench.People are missing the fact that most of the "runbacks" are caused by dying mid way through the normal map, which is the same thing as dying in the last phase of a boss. It sucks sure but its part of the game.
>>720729331I'm not even the same anon, and it's an example of how the late game sucks, especially act 3, you fucking moron. Besides you can't even retort it. Even old metroid games had something to help you at the end. Stupid retard, you can't admit this game has flaws because it's be akin to say it's bad in your head, THAT IS S what's pathetic.
I didn't have an issue with runbacks until now. Last Judge runback was actually fun. Groal is actually dog shit, though. What do you mean I have to do an arena before the boss every time?
>>720701634They hated him because he spoke the truth. The base difficulty for every game should be easy enough even a novice could feasibly complete it with a little work, but there should be in-game options for ramping up difficulty and applying challenges. We sort of saw this design philosophy with the boss rushes in the original HK with restrictions on what you could use, while simultaneously you could practice any boss you wanted. Why they took a step back in Silksong after seemingly learning their lesson in the tail end of HK is beyond me.
>>720729446>Even old metroid games had something to help you at the endThere was an item in Super Metroid that showed you the location of every missile?
>>720727323>>720726896How is a run back hard? its not, since it just requires you to put in action. Hence its not difficult but it adds in fake difficulty aka inconvenience to pad out time it takes to redo the boss. Runbacks arent hard themselves its a nuisance so its called artificial since its not related to actually challenging material.
>>720701261True
>>720729460>base difficulty for every game should be easy enough even a novice could feasibly complete it with a little workLollmao
>>720729502I accept your concession, you literally did not dispute any of the points I made. And you yourself probably used the online map to finish the 100%, so you're a living proof.Thank you, anon. Great talk.
>stay off the internet>clear the game with 100% collection rate>have a lot of fun>go check out /v/>everyone is complaining about everythingi swear you faggots just repeat back whatever you hear.
>>720728674The thing is that when you get mad you might frown for a bit but when I get mad I need to destroy something and with Hollow Knight I was close to destroying my office.
>>720729683I am TRYING to dispute your point but you're avoiding the question, what is this thing in "old metroid games" to help you at the end? You are trying to make some distinction that exploration is somehow worse in Silksong but you're example of why is bullshit, unless you can prove otherwise
>>720710818You're just as bad as the casuals. The amount of retarded game design decisions that are being defended with this game is frankly getting ridiculous. You want difficulty? You're a fatty that can't even do a burpee.
>>720729505I wouldn't say that boss runbacks in this game have to do with difficulty at all since they are usually trivial, it's more of a matter of tedium which imo is a separate issue. What I could call "artificial difficulty" is something like stunned bosses still dealing contact damage>>720729736lol this reminded me of a social media post with some dude who kept a cheap small ikea table beside him when playing FIFA just to smash it when he got angry.I do slam my desk occasionally but it's sturdy and I calm down quickly
>>720729076As I've written Team Cherry usually will leave an area unfilled until you explore it. By filling all of Bellhart before you explore the upper level, it is inferring the area is explored. They do this in a handful of locations, like the hook shot area and the coral area.You can place blame on the player for not "looking up" on every single area of the map, but:1 - you also have to admit that Team Cherry applied their map revealing mechanic unevenly.2 - they gave no real motivation to look up or down or whatever. The map being unfilled was a motivation but they forgot to apply that to certain rooms.>>720728921- uninteresting NPCs and towns that seem imitations of something the developer saw in a Fromsoft game- Muh church bad - seriously Cherry are terrible writers- Vague goals that amount to "just go fill out the map and find every item"- 'secrets' that amount to just blindly hitting every wall- fetch quests to retread an area you've already been- backtracking, backtracking, backtracking- constant flying ranged enemies- overused grimdark atmosphere- grinding enemies for rosaries like its an MMO- "yipee, another fucking heart piece" - why not give the various tools instead of heart pieces, that removes the need to grind rosaries and increases value of exploration.- the list goes on.
>>720729823I'm talking about completion, about how SS definitely gives 0 shit about it, except for fleas somehow, because your answer is "just explore". Yeah man, let's backtrack again and again in act 3 to get the last upgrades that are scattered on the big map. Most Metroidvanias at least give you the courtesy of telling you if you missed something in a zone, sometimes they even give you a location, or the type of thing you need.This game cannot even tell you what is required in the 100%. That's why when you say "just explore", this is the literally the opposite of what the devs are actually thinking: "just use a guide/the online map". And case in point, my example was about the cursed ending: this is supposed to be a hidden ending, yet there are almost as many people who finished Act 3, who got this one.So you can see how there is a design discrepancy between: how you have to backtrack at the end, what the game actually gives to help you (nothing) and how you're actually supposed to do it: just fucking google it. Is that the spirit of metroidvanias? Fuck no, and that is why I'm saying most games do help you, but this one is just saying fuck you.Now I'm done talking about that. If you can't understand, whatever.
>>720730196>- Muh church bad - seriously Cherry are terrible writersSorry had to stop reading here, what church is bad exactly?
Flint or Brew on wanderer crest? I'm at last judge. I feel like brew is more useful but I already have anklets so the run speed is overkill.I just found out poison slate nerfs damage but insta procs poison every hit.
>>720730261>I'm talking about completion,Huh? No you're not. You stated, and apparently I have to quote it again>Even old metroid games had something to help you at the endWhat did you actually mean by this?
>>720718556It adds the drill fly though
>>720730331>Sorry had to stop reading hereyes, i noticed you have a pattern of not reading anything.Reading and riding Team Cherry's dick at once must be tough work.
>>720730406You are a retard that cannot read. I literally answered that.>Most Metroidvanias at least give you the courtesy of telling you if you missed something in a zone, sometimes they even give you a location, or the type of thing you need.
>>720730424Are you going to answer what/who the bad church is or just dodge the question for another oh so witty retort to pretend you won an argument?
>>720730487>>Most Metroidvanias at least give you the courtesy of telling you if you missed something in a zone, sometimes they even give you a location, or the type of thing you need.No they don't, when do Metroid or Super Metroid do this?>inb4 I didn't mean THAT old
>>720722385I hate how you can't control the length of the dash, both because it feels like shit in combat, and because having the extended dash equipped fucks up that entire section and you can't take it off without visiting a bench
>>720730490Are you going to read?Didn't think so. I win, you lose, retard.
>>720730157I try to control my anger but when left unchecked it's very dangerous. I was a menace when I was younger and I'm lucky I never got thrown in jail. This days I tend to simply walk away from rage inducing situations.
>>720730587Witty retort, got it.
>>720715479I feel so old for noticing this image was made back when /v/ thought "viral" was a buzzword
>>720730646Didn't read, but responded anyways, got it.I win, you lose.
>>720730717I'll read the rest of your post when you can address why the second point on your list is apparently completely made up, almost like you haven't played the game.
>>720730157>What I could call "artificial difficulty" is something like stunned bosses still dealing contact damageyeah good take. id say the runbacks are lazy difficulty. thats the better phrase.
>>720730770No, your terms are not accepted.You are not a special snowflake, millions of people have played the game.
>>720730563Yeah you're actually a retard AND you probably think we're in 2005 or something.
>>720730638yeah when gaming you can just punch a pillow or something but when dealing with other people it's a whole other issue
>>720704967>which makes senseIt really doesn't, what are you even saying?
>>720723530>I have no problem with it being a difficult gameyou can say this as much as you like, you'll still be told to "git gud"Some people see criticism and get so mad they completely lose the ability to read
>>720730843This is just pathetic dude, you made a point and you can't back it up or admit you were wrong. Can you just name the Metroid game you were supposedly talking about? If you're going to take another boring detour you can just not bother replying.
>hunter's March>the place with no biomes, full of trick jumps and harder enemies>gee I wonder if this is a challenging area I need to immediately do or wait until I get upgradesNo one who came back to this place later with upgrades has complained. It's just like Caelid in Elden Ring. It's an obviously difficult place that's obvious early in the game that you should quickly know to avoid if you can't handle it. The whole concept of metroidvanias is to come back later if you're having trouble.
>>720704967how is that a boss fight simulator while there are 40-45 bosses scatted in 25+ zonesthat's fucking retardedif anything, this game is actually a gauntlet simulator
>>720723579Explain exactly which words are buzzwords and why you are so frightened by people communicating their thoughts
>>720730839But you evidently are not one of them.
>>720723935I think being able to place dream portals was added in a DLC, so that anon might be thinking of the base game on release
>>720731019muh church badwow i think Team Cherry must have read the super rare manga Berserk, what a genius writing teamyou lost i win
>>720730964You didn't even discuss anything I said except focus on one detail (which I am right, and old metroid isn't necessarily NES since 20-30 years ago is the same). You didn't say anything about the secret ending being done that many times, about how the game requires you to use a map, a guide, or to spend a 100h hitting all walls like an autist for completion.Yeah I can stop replying, I had my answer.
>>720723971>a completely linear soulslike with garbage level design is pointless, they should just have gone full action game. The bosses are the only interesting part anywayNTA, I thought this at first but I ended up liking it a lot. It just clicked after the halfway point
>>720731147again, what church?
>>720703872I actually died to this frog so many times because by the time I got to him my nerves were shot. I did that runback so many times I'm pretty sure I can do it in like a minute. When you guys talk about a secret bench what do you mean? The stagstation or the broodmother? There are only two benches in Bilewater right?
>>720701634Be careful. You speak the truth. They will try to snuff you out like they did Charlie Kirk.
>>720731170>STILL can't name the Metroid game he was talking aboutI will happily address any of your points once you can actuallly prove you know what you're even talking about
>>720731218>ummmm AXTUALLY its not a churchmuh church bad
>>720726363There's an art to making difficult/hardcore games. It is in fact possible to make a shit one that has fake/dishonest/uninteresting difficulty
>>720701820>an incentive to do better next time and winbro I don't need an "incentive" to beat the boss I already want to
>>720701261Runbacks means developers know their boss fights are shit.
do any of you play arcade games
>>720731324What church? I would like to read the rest of your post but I don't think you've actually played Silksong
>>720730389No one uses buff tools? Only deepthroating cogflies huh?
>>720701191
If I spend all available lockets in act 1 do I get the second Vesticrest unlock? I really need the extra blue to beat Last Judge.
>>720731356I definitely agree but if you like to play games to relax Silksong wouldn't be the game for you even if you solved all its cheap/bad design choices. Even if it had an easy mode that made enemies trivial that anon would be better off playing something else imo, being a bit hostile is part of this game's nature
>>720701191the run backs in this game are meant to represent the struggles transfolks go by everyday
>>720728921The charms you find while exploring don't really change much of the gameplay and you can't immediately try them because you need to walk to a bench to equip themYour movement kit stops evolving halfqay through so you won't find much to play withCombat is tedious and the level design feel stretched out so every area feels padded to oblivionWhile the artstyle is pretty, the areas feel quite monotone and the atmospheric OST doesn't really do much to spice the areas up.All this adds up to quite boring exploration
>>720731678This but unironically.
>>720730261This is too hard to make for this game. 8 years.
>>720731643last judge is deceptively easy bruv, just keep your distance when it goes fire mode and only hit it when it does the dash or the slam. It'll take a bit but if you focus on dodging you can relieably avoid taking damage indefinitely
>>720731883What game is your pic from?
>>720726896Personally, I wouldn't brag about not being able to tell the difference between genuine difficulty and fake difficulty
>>720731921that's Nine Sols I'm pretty sure
>>720702647the frog is the only truly bad boss runback. Last Judge runback didn't need multiple nerfs
>>720731905Ok man, I'll try. Getting three hits in after an opening with flint is getting me to the final phase reliably but I die soon after because I can't generate silk fast enough to heal. Sadly I'm on attempt 75 (haha!) right now and my arm is spasmodic because of the constant runbacks.
>>720727323This is just an example that isn't about a particular game, but picture the difference between an attack that's hard to dodge, and an attack with absolutely no warning that is impossible to dodge unless you've already died to it 5 timesThat's just one difference between difficulty and artificial difficulty
>>720731883>game sees you entering a room>it's not fully completed on the mapthank you team cherry, the technology isn't there yet
>>720728674Liking something is fine, but that doesn't mean it isn't flawed or that people criticising it just need to "git gud"A developer can make a game rage inducing through sheer ineptitude. And even when it's deliberate it can be a poor choice
>>720729343Don't like it, criticize itSimple as.
>>720731760This. Incredibly unrewarding. The first two crests I got I had zero interest in. There's no major build changing items, just linear improvement and which tool you prefer to spam. A DS Era castlevania game made in a year has 100 more options than this 8 year game. And I love Silksong but it's critically flawed in rewards and focusing on gigantic rooms.
>>720730563>Most metroidvania games do this>Oh yeah, well this one doesn'tAre you willfully ignorant or are you the metroidvania equivalent of a Roguelike purist, someone that doesn't even count Bloodstained as a true metroidvania because it's not a Metroid or Castlevania game?
>>72073235313 years old game do it better than 8 years old (lol) game
Being forced to sit on benches to fill in the map or do anything in the menu is such a backwards piece of design. It's inconvenient and makes the game feel like it's padding itself out.
>>720729689It's interesting that you are acting like not criticising a game is indicative of independent thought, because I think it indicates an absence of thought.Not being able to tell the difference between good and bad is not a virtue.
>>720732179this paints a very clear picture indeed, thanks>>720732440yeah intention and how you advertise your game make all the difference, getting angry at a masocore game being unfair would be dumb but otherwise complaints about cheap difficulty are always fair
>>720731617Actual cancer wtf. Glad i didnt buy this slop.
>>720722012In Hollow Knight you had to be asleep or licking paint to die to 99% of bosses.They were jokes
>>720732798or maybe there's objectively nothing to complain about. game is fine. get good i guess
>>720731570>flint60% damage increase on nail.It means 12.6 extra damage per hit on a max nail. A single boomerang deals 50. You need 4 hits to get ahead on a much safer tool to use. Cogflies hit 6x10. You need 5 hits to get ahead of a cogfly, which is downright passive easy to use, and you can just summon 3 for much higher dps.Why are you surprised about this?Nailspam is a HK thing and discouraged in SS
>>720733043>nothing is wrong!>git gudLmao you can't even make this shit up.Bro is a cultist and is retarded enough to think>if there is some bad, the game is bad>>720732798You are 100% right about the anon you're talking about.
>>720731760I mostly agree, the charms suck.Charms in HK were at least useful and interesting to try on for a bit.I don't think areas feel padded, but the music is meh.
>>720731648That's fair, but I think making it solely about relaxation is oversimplifying. I like difficulty and excitement, I just don't want it to become tedious and make me feel like I'm wasting my time more than I already am
>>720730996It also has one total decent item (the boomerang)Hell you cant even do the boss until you float.Its a complete waste of time to do in hindsight and you could have been bashing your head against the wormways instead
Am i retarded for thinking witch crest is SSS tier? The risk is a little high but using it with claw mirrors just chunks shit like crazy if you time it right
>>720733446The movesets 10/10 the slots are perfect.But not being able to heal well is punishing so people dont want it
>>720701191runback? You mean backtracking?
>>720733243but i had fun and didn't have any problem with it. so what now? you gonna throw a tantrum?
>>720733708no but it's at least comforting to understand what kind of retard you are, you could be in team cherry's QA team, since they pretty much suck their cock 24/7 for 8 years with no critical feedback instead of improving frustrating parts
>>720732353didnt ender lilies add this after release? still a great change because it makes backtracking and 100%ing way less tedious
>>720733093But that doesn't mention the flame pseudo poison tick from burn. Does Boomerang really outclass flint? Fucking hell, the tools really are all useless except three (rang, cog, trap).... I am disappointed. If the buff tools are so useless they need to increase the amount of charges per rest.
>>720733986imagine losing to bosses so much that you created a word for itcouldn't be me
>>720734197I finished the game at 100% in 40h, so I'm pretty sure I have less deaths than you. But unlike you, I am capable of capable thinking beyond>oh I beat the boss/game therefore it's aaaaall fine
>>720734105It works on charge attacks and architect drill hits like a truck for 700% already, that gets buffed to 1120% (as in, a single charge attack deals 11.2 normal hits of damage compared to another crest). It also works with Hunter's flat 5 damage increase for going hitless and the beast bind buff, and also random wanderer crits.
Defend Bilewater.
>/v/ whining for years that ER's removal of runbacks is somehow terrible>Then immediately turning around and becoming anti-runback the moment a game does it
>>720732632I redirect you to where him/you said >>720729446> Even old metroid games had something to help you at the endI don't care about the goalpost move, I want to know this mythical Metroid game.
>>720735258I've always been pro-runback.
>>720735258>/v/ is one personI liked runbacks in Fromsoft games, too. I liked them in Sekiro (you're entirely in control of who you engage there with how fast and mobile you are, just like in Silk Song), I liked them in DS1. I kind of didn't like them in DeS but I can't articulate why because it's been like 14 years since I played that. There were no runbacks in HK I even remember, except the traitor lord but you only run back once because that fucker is seriously easy.
This soulslike design is hard to defend. There's a segment of gameplay that's "press button to walk right" / the equivalent to "watch paint dry" for 30s. That's it. Ofc you might enjoy the game anyway. But well there's a 30s "watch paint dry"-ing section. If you die once it's justified to exist a section of watching paint dry afterwards in you're game? i dunno.
>>720734738You already had to go through the required platforming gauntlet to get the double jump to access upper bilewater. You displayed the base competency, and the game is now asking you to do it again with raised stakes.Git. Gud.
