>>721016667
>12v12 and 16v16
Valve cursed the game to be 8v8 so I win

>>721016667
>>>/lgbt/
Trans Fagass 2 isn't welcome here

>>721016667
Snipers don't get into top 1 score often. So he is balanced

>>721016667
>don't run in straight line
Bullshit advice, a lot of snipers headshot me even if I spam wasd randomly

>>721016951
Different classes get different amounts of score from doing the same things

>>721016667
he isn't playing the same game i'm playing.
it's like he's playing king's quest
also this game is shit because you need a "team"
why do I need a "team" to play an fps? I just want to shoot, why is my shooting impaired by my class and by other people? if I wanted that I would play an MMO or leave the house

>>721016667
It's not OP. It's annoying to deal with on open sightline maps where you have to push into him. But an uber solves that.

TF2 players are just crybabies
Overwatch gave sniper a grappling hook and wallhacks and she is perfectly balanced

>>721016667
He's not OP, he's fun to strategize against, and he's a good fit for the game because of the unique long-distance awareness he forces. Scout and Soldier wreck him, as they should.
>unless you're playing absolute cancer-tier maps like Harvest.
Harvest is a great map to battle Snipers because, depending on whether he's on top of the health pack barn or the sloped roof, you can advance on the other side of the map and then push him laterally when he's scoped in. Viaduct is a way more oppressive map for Sniper, but there's still things you can do like get overheal, check if he's aiming elsewhere, and then divebomb him as Soldier or Demo.

The only things I'd consider changing about Sniper are reworking Darwin's Danger Shield and adding tracers to each shot.

The time it takes for a sniper to go from unscoped to landing a critical hit is 200 milliseconds, which is shorter than most human player reaction time to both see and react to this stimuli.
It wouldn't be as big of a deal if players had the agency to jostle his aim and force a missed shot, but the small time window for it makes that no different from guessing off prediction.
The only thing that should be done is to make suppressive fire good enough to buy yourself more time to meaningfully engage in evasive, aggressive, or retreat movements, rather than being too fast for your character to begin moving in a different direction.

>hackers shouldn't count when judging a class
Why not? It's something that will happen in the game. As a game designer you should factor how abusable hacks could be in the game.

>>721016667
It's not Sniper per se, it's the turbovirgin trannies who put thousands of hours into Sniper and ruin games for everyone else. Same thing goes for Spy.

>>721018906
The botting issue was because of matchmaking.
https://youtu.be/JNxg5stxlhk?t=12434

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>>721016667
Medic is way more powerful than sniper when it comes to team contribution. Hell, Sniper is downright fine when the maps aren't catered towards him. But, he's not fun to play against. What fun is there to get punished by a nearly one-sided fight when engaging in the main areas / chokepoints?

>>721016667
24 shots, no reloading needed. You can say all you want about sightlines and respecting them and you'd be correct, but the prime suspect behind a good sniper (aka an aimbotted) being able to hold a sight line is because the fuck has 24 shots in the clip, it's like if Demoman never needed to reload to hold a point from being unusable.
If Sniper had like 5 shots in the clip before needing to reload, he'd be far more balanced, hell introducing reloading to his shit would greatly introduce variety to his sidegrades like making the classic have a humongous clip because it has a large magazine that could hold hella shots, so you get the rifle meant to hold positions, or you get the sweaty countersnipe rifle that has longer reload but can fuck up snipers as sniper and so on.

>>721019386
Mass botting isn't the only form of hacking.

>>721020128
true, that's just what OP mentioned though

>>721016667
damage falloff.
8/9 classes, even if you have a weapon that can technically shoot long range, it does scratch damage. sniper is the only exception.

>>721016667
tf2 sniper is a worst of both worlds where he has an arena fps sniper rifle that doesn't have to worry about scope shake/bullet drop while being able to camp healthpacks to keep himself healthy but tf2 is otherwise not very quake designed with its narrow horizontal hallways map design instead of a vertical arena shooter level where you can super easily flank him

>>721020710
You know, I've been meaning to figure out why Railguns just work better than sniper rifles in games and you said it. Thanks.

>>721020987
A spy can be either at the top or the bottom and there is no inbetween. A good spy can work miracles.

Sniper isn't OP because he can't singlehandedly decide a match like Medic or Engineer. But he is far and wide the most annoying class in the game. It is never fun walking out of battlements and dying in ~2 seconds to a hitscan from across the map.

>>721016667
>bans the use of certain buzzwords
>immediately uses those buzzwords himself as justification to support his stance

What exactly do you want op? For people to just mindlessly agree with you?

>>721016667
sniper isn't fun to play against. simple as.

that and his class doesn't have much non-skill based balancing.
soldier, for example, no matter how good he is, only has 4 rockets.
heavy will always lack movement
demoman lacks hitscan options
spy is incredibly vulnerable and has a lot of downtime
pyro has no range
ect.
but what of sniper?

>>721021080
Problem is a Spy at the top can easily be just due to the two points per backstab.

>>721021080
Regardless, they only work on bad players.
You would get an entirely different list for noob servers with pyro and spy at the top.

He's unfun and made me not want to play.
I don't really care if he's balanced or not, he's a dogshit addition to the game.

>>721021637
In theory it's that Sniper is weak up close. But I get that people feel that sniper can wreck shit even at close range when they get good at those quickscope headshots.

That and once you figure out that you don't need to charge every shot to do effective damage as a sniper you quickly learn to minimise the amount of time you spend scopred making it's much harder to sneak up on you.

>>721022640
>you don't need to charge every shot to do effective damage
This plus once a sniper learns to properly check surrounds during reload and still fire accurately on time, they effectively have no weakness. It's why the razorback is the biggest retard-flag in the game. You don't need it to invalidate spies because if you know how to listen for uncloaks and can fire-check-fire they'll never backstab you anyway.

The top-tier snipers are absolutely brutal to play against, some of them are indistinguishable from aimbots and the game was not designed around people being that consistently accurate.

Give sniper the ability to "lock on" to players they aim at.
Make rifle charge depend on how long you've stayed locked in on a player.
Charge wont decay between shots but each enemy has their own charge.

There you go, fixed sniper.

>>721023507
Doesn't fix quickscoping headshots which is the main issue with high lvl snipers

>>721023630
Also increase scout and medic hp by one

>>721023368
What's wrong with some 5000 hour kovaaks addict no life neet dominating in a shooter? Isn't that basically how it is supposed to work?
Not every game is a fucking team slop moba, sometimes mechanicals skills triumph.

answer what 2+2 is without using these buzzwords:
>4
>four

>>721023507
>do nothing about quickscopes
>make quickscopes lethal even through overheal, even if he whiffs 20 shots in a row
all you've done is make the sydney sleeper and classic unusable

>>721023746
22

>>721023630
reduce sniper's damage by 20%.

>>721023630
>>721023779
Just switch class

TEAM Fortress 2. Where it's supposed to be a team effort to communicate with each other and shut down threats, but that simply can't happen with TF2's current dogshit skilled playerbase, apparently.

>run vaccinator
Requires a competent teammate
>run battalions
Requires you to do 600 damage without going to battlements
>run scorch
Danger shield
>dive bomb
Easy pickings for a decent sniper
>countersnipe
So youre not alowed to play any other class but sniper. Fun.
>don't run in straight line
Obviously yes, but a skilled sniper wont be deterred.
>coordinate with a team in a team based shooter

>decent teammates
>in casual games
Lmao

>inb4 community servers
There are none that have the vanilla game without additional faggotry with additional downloads, ads, fagmins, etc

>>721019679
What the hell are you talking about it's a bolt action rifle, he has to load a new round after every shot.

>>721016667
I think the biggest issues with Sniper are
>He can still instakill people even at point blank with good enough aim (or hax), so flanking/diving him isn't as reliable a counter as it should be
>Has multiple unlocks that let him passively neutralize counters like Spies and flares, with zero effort required on the Sniper's part beyond adjusting his loadout; this means "change up your class/tactics to focus him" doesn't really work unless multiple players are doing it
>Sizable ammo reserve lets him camp areas for an extended period of time, only rarely needing to step away from his perch and restock
Nerfing at least one of these things would help make him less frustrating to deal with without compromising his niche of killing shit at long range

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>>721016667
The sniper rifle firing rate is simply too fast, i fucking hate when they know you can combo it with the SMG

>>721023896
Spy already does what Sniper does but in a much more fun and organic manner (too bad the class is shit because even a good spy player is easy to shut down with a pyro lol)

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>>721020987
Ftfy

>>721024042
Not even close. Even a Spy main can't shut down a team like Sniper can. The point is that both threats can be shut down with communication.

>>721016667
>without using these buzzwords: sightline
>proceeds to use sightlines to justify his own point
What a fag you are

>>721024042
Scout and heavy are better spy checkers than pyro.

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>>721016667
Ok, but Sniper has no reason to have the annoying set of secondary weapons in the game.
>Jarate
Applies mini crits to crowds, rapes Spies and can extinguish teammates EVERY 20 SECONDS (you can also recharge at the locker). With Bushwacka it turns Sniper into the best melee class short of Demoknight. Thank god every Sniper uses this selfishly.
>Razorback
Fucks over Spies for NO GOOD REASON (is practically useless when you realise that SPY HAS A GUN).
>Danger Shield
Fucks over good Pyros with flare gun aim for NO GOOD REASON.

>>721024143
unfortunately no amount of communication can actually stop a sniper on a map that doesn't give you flank routes at every single juncture, you will eventually need to engage with him on his terms because the objective doesn't move and will generally favor the defenders. And the simple fact remains that sniper has his entire team between him and you for protection and can generally make as many mistakes as he wants so long as he eventually lands the shot, meanwhile Spy is often isolated from his team and gets buttfucked if he screws up (sometimes even if he doesn't screw up but an enemy just randomly turns around)
some map makers are specifically trying to go out of their way to make vestibules between spawn and the point specifically to reduce camping safely in spawn so you can switch class at the slightest hint of danger, most notably for sniper and engineer. Think something like the rocket room in Granary.

>>721016667
He can kill a majority of classes just by scoping immediately and clicking with absolutely no risk and all reward. The only format Sniper is balanced is 6s and that's solely because it's been optimized to just roll meme pick classes like him. One entire class should not elicit entire loadout AND class changes just to counter him.

sniper is objectively the easiest class in the game to get good at
all you do is sit in the back and spam quickscopes
zoomerslop genuinely are better at balancing snipers than tf2, a game where pretty much every single balancing mechanic gives him an edge
>damage falloff doesn't apply to him and neuters enemy fire
>projectiles take forever to reach him
>maps are designed to have strongholds and engineers who provide him superb protection
>flinching does nothing
meanwhile even in the most basic cod slop snipers can be easily flanked and he's not even safe at his range because an ar can just laserbeam him

>>721017691
Widow:
>can't one-shot anyone when at minimum charge, still can't one-shot headshot tanks even when fully charged
>there's several other long-range heroes that can damage a widow that's hiding in the backline
>most other heroes either have mobility or defensive abilities that can easily close distance or block her shots
>is pretty much guaranteed to die if someone gets close and she doesn't have grapple available
>there's several other heroes that hard-counter even great widows to the point that playing widow is basically throwing if the enemy picks said heroes (winston, genji, venture, wrecking ball, etc)

Sniper:
>can one-shot headshot 5/9 of the cast at minimum charge, and can one-shot every single class at full charge
>every other class uses close-range or mid-range weapons
>only some of the cast have mobility that can allow them to get into close-range with any real speed
>even if an enemy gets close, he can just use jarate + bushwacka or quickscope them
>the only true counter to sniper is another sniper once the sniper's good enough