Are you sape enough to enjoy games like wizardry VII or Grimoire \v\?I'm getting filtered by character generation how do you even know what races & classes mesh well,can fairys make good warriors,can I create rat clerics?
I can stomach the lack of handholding and the ball-crushing difficulty and the esoteric puzzles and secrets, what I can't handle is the shitty UIs.
>>721124696Nah I get filtered by having to move multiple toy soldiers.
>>721125075The UI aren't too bad once you do get used to em,the real trouble is stats>what's faith & destiny when both wisdom & intelligence exist
>>721124696I haven't gotten to Wiz 7 yet but I loved 1-3 and 5.
>>721124696>>721126171I have a lot of difficulty playing these games because I just know that half the stats/races/classes/whatevers are going to be dogshit traps.
ultimate 6 blob composition?
>>721124696https://store.steampowered.com/app/3301820/Class_of_Heroes_3_Remaster/it is out
>>721124696gwimuah.
>>721127197I lose all interest in this series when I found out it had procedural maps.
>>721127197>steamIt wouldn't be the same if it's not on the PSP Go anon
>>721127319I did too, the second I read your post.
>>721124696I remember bard being very fucking strong in this game to the point that it trivialized everything. That's all that I remember about Grimoire lol. I played it the day that it released and I remember reading the RPG codex megathread about it for build tips. I never beat it because I got stuck in a pyramid with no way out and there were no tips about it on the codex at the time. If you asked Cleve for help, he'd tell you to stop being such a dummy and search more.
>>7211273192 and 3 don't have randomly generated dungeons. That said, even then they aren't very good games.
>>721128293I wonder if he's still working on that 3D game?
>>721124696FUCK DUNGEON CRAWLERS!GIVE ME DUNGEON BRAWLERS!!
>>721130341So, Fight Knight?
>>721130742I should play that again, it was a great game.
What's a mainstream dungeon crawler
>>721132453pic-related would be a good start
The only old school western dungeon crawler I've ever finished was the first lands of lore, I liked it. Probably because it was simple enough for even a pleb like me to beat
>>721132453Legend of grimrock, EO, wizardry are the most well known though I'm not sure I\d call them mainstream.
>>721127197Do I have to play the previous games before this one?
>>721124696I can't play any games that don't have cute anime portraits. Unironically. I just find them boring and don't get invested.If I can add my own portraits that's a different story, but otherwise I don't bother anymore.
>>721133101nop
>>721128737What's bad about them? I was thinking of grabbing 3 when it goes on sale in the future.
>>721132453the wizardry gacha is pretty good
>>721133172Try the dark spire it's an original inspired by eleimage & wizardry
>>721133280I'm pretty far into 3, the main issue of that one is that not a ton of thought went into the campaign. First dungeon, enemies are piss easy, boss is hard, makes sense. Second dungeon, enemies get astronomically harder, the boss isn't so bad but you can randomly get into a fight where you're up against 5-10 monsters that can do 50-100% HP damage to any character in your party. Then by the third, you're getting raped, the boss has a partywide attack that hits for 200 damage that you pray he doesn't use because it'll kill half your party. Then it just dries up. They repeat the same enemies for a long time, and even late game, you're fighting piss weak enemies you fought ages ago, not even stronger recolors. Then after a long time, enemies finally start getting harder, they introduce more stuff, but it's still not very hard. But you sort of need to fight as you go, because the bosses can still do a lot of damage and you want gear and HP and class exp. To be fair you can run from a lot of fights at this point and I wouldn't call it grindy, it's just too easy.Besides that, the classes aren't that interesting. Anyone with magic can be okay, they get a decent number of options. Physical only classes tend to suffer, they're basically a ball of passives with 2-3 attacks, and almost all of those attacks require a charge turn where they sit and do nothing. I have no issue with charging for moves, but this game takes it overboard for physical classes. Even the thief has to charge before being able to steal money, it's ridiculous.
>>721133905I actually own a physical copy of that. I should go find it.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1131920/LABYRINTH_OF_TOUHOU__GENSOKYO_AND_THE_HEAVENPIERCING_TREE/Consider this one, pirate it even.The special abilities are interesting and 12 character parties turn the characters themselves into resources to be managed, especially on bosses.
>>721134089What's the third best english-translated dungeon crawler on vita (after dt2 and soscr)?
>>721134207>12How do you even gear that many PCs?
>>721134656DT2-2
>>721134696It's all "Accessories" basically, no weapons/armor.Theres one main slot where you can equip base stat modifying gear, and 3 accessories which do all sorts of buffs.The gear is all fully interchangable no matter what build, so its mostly up to you to not put irrelevant gear on people. There's plenty of duplicates but the rare stuff you still want to put on your best frontliners.
>>721135085Ah that does make things much more manageable then thanks anon
>>721124696Played MM6 and MM7. They had a turn based mode but I always played in real time.It let me do shit like slide past high level mobs to get the loot or juke ranged attacks by zigzagging.
Japanese dungeon crawler rpgs have too much time wasting grind and the exploration isn't interesting
>>721136310Good thing the OP isn't japanese then anon it's absolutely 75% you're western meets east sci-fi https://youtu.be/dCpPEwXMPpQ?si=jXucu4SsULgBuncd
>>721136194Do those games even count as dungeon crawlers? They always felt more like open world RPGs to me.
>>721136918They have dungeons and you spend you still have a blob party, they count in my eyes
>>721126264What about... 4?
>>721136918The 3d might and magic games or the series in general?As someone who played the 3d games yeah there is a lot of overworld exploration.
>>721125075>>721126171both of these things are problems I have with the genre.I play so many of the games and love them, but the UI's of 90% are awful and there are so many bait stats and trap classes its kind of unreal
is this good?Experience games are the exact type of Dungeonslop i like, and google says it's the port of a remake of a game they made.
>>721137358>and there are so many bait stats and trap classes its kind of unrealThat's just how it was back then, not defending it mind you, it was just from a time when if you had a bad build you were boned
>>721137584It's solidly in the middleGet it pretty cheaply (or free) and it's worth it.
What makes a good dungeon crawler.
>>721137808dungeons that you can crawl on.
>>721137584In a genre that often has bad UIs, Operation Abyss has one of the worst.
>>721125075We gotta sape here
Any RPG with more than 5 playable characters is too tedious
>>7211384361, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are all good. 2 and 7+ are shit.
>>721138436anon that's literally half of them m8
I can handle odd character building and punishing game mechanics that force quicksaves every 5 minutes but the number one thing preventing me from enjoying classic dungeon crawlers is the fact that almost all the good ones shit the bed when you tab out and don't play well with modern resolutions or even 1920x1080
>>721138991What? Most of the ones I've played have 1 or 4. I only said 5 to include Etrian Odyssey cause EO4 is one of my favorites
>>721139127>but the number one thing preventing me from enjoying classic dungeon crawlers is the fact that almost all the good ones shit the bed when you tab out and don't play well with modern resolutions or even 1920x1080Well most of them are either from the MS-Dos era are early windows (like mid 90s to 2000s) I do understand the complaint though, technical issues are always a pain to deal with
Why did the OG dungeon crawlers lack Maps anyway? Was a memory issue or something?
>>721124696Someone posted a curator list the other day. Post it again. I missed it.
>>721138436TWELVENIGGASIN 3 ROWS
>>721139371Originally it was just to save space, back when things were more limited you had to decide what to leave out and in game maps were that, you were expected to bust out that graph paper and pencil and manually draw it out, over time maps were eventually introduced into dungeon crawlers although you were still expected to use a pen and paper for notes and such
>>721139371No idea. Whatever the reason lead to the game built around making your own maps. It's why The Bard's Tale Remaster is so strange. It has a full auto map and auto note feature but it makes some traps and spells redundant. They did try to mitigate it a little bit, like without the compass spell the automap will rotate with you which can be confusing.
>>721139501We columns now.
>>721138208you have no idea how bad this would trigger me
>>721124696Is Grimoire even good?
>>721139371Not at all anon they literally intended you to get out the old pen and paper to draw your own handcrafted map yourself for maximum immersion with your created adventures
>>721139906It's great but only if you enjoyed old school wizardry games there's a ton of jank mechanics that don't click at first then once you start getting used to how the game throw towards you it's 10/10
>>721137684I understand it in older games, but a lot of newer games seem to also have very poor balance.some classes just being straight up weaker or having effects that are incredibly specific and pretty much require certain other classes to enable them (which you cannot know at the start of the game).and that is before you get to games that pretty much require certain classes for certain parts of the game and you just cannot know
Anon why don't you make a sick Dungeon Crawler?
The only good part about Wizardy Daphne is anime girls look dirty and covered in dust after dungeon crawling. That shit makes me rock hard.
>>721124696whats a good crawler that lets make a party filled with evil hags
>>721141948
I wanted to play Wasteland 1 but the character creation seems real high stakes, and I don't have time to waste learning what skills are necessary through trial-and-error.
>>721125075>and the esoteric puzzleshow esoteric we talking here?
>>721126264I can't fathom liking Wizardry 2 or 3.Finding out that those "games" were literally just map packs for your max-level characters to romp around in was disillusioning. An RPG without character progression is not what I'm looking for, to say the least.This goes for a lot of "import your character or hit yourself in the balls for 20 hours" RPG sequels of that era. Bards Tale, the later Gold Box games.
>>721139906Mechanically it's a mess, the UI is a functional disaster, but it has an interesting world and decent writing.
>>721142798>irregardlessMy caveman knees... they're faltering...
>>721142683>not actually logic puzzles but instead veiled references to American sports and random moviesI don't feel bad at all about looking those up, fuck those guys.
>>721143335>>not actually logic puzzles but instead veiled references to American sports and random moviesNot a dungeon crawler, but reminds me of a quest in Fallout 2 where the only way to tell a guy that they sold him a human liver is by very openly referencing an 80s movie where a character eats a human liver, which neither you nor the other character would realistically know even exists.
>>721143335>Solution to a puzzle is an answer that's completely nonsensical unless you were either a psychic, the actual devs or just plain luck
>>721143596>solution is a joke from a 70s japanese comedy skit
>>721125075those dungeon crawlers that are completely mouse driven fucking suck so much
for me it's japs porting old dungeon crawlers to their own systems and adding sick music to themhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oenoAldss48
>>721144023Why are Japs so obsessed with Wizardy?They based a whole section of their videogame output on just making Wizardry-likes, and any vame that isn't directly inspired by it is instead indirectly inspired because the creator played it for 120 hours when they were a kid.
>>721144212the weirdest thing is that it's all based on a game that was inspired by wizardry but ultimately played WAY simpler
>>721144212It hit them the same year that Dungeons and Dragons did
>>721144212Why are western indies so obsessed with 2D platformers? It's just a product of its time, it got popular and people who played it made lots of knock-offs
This mobile game that I downloaded for zero dollars, ad free, is the only roguelike I've played in ages that's anything like Rogue. And I can't fucking beat it it's hard as shit.
>>721144775>Why are western indies so obsessed with 2D platformers?Undiagnosed Autism.
>>721144212The 70s and 80s were the perfect storm for nerd culture to take root in both Japan and the West.Western culture is more extroverted, so it naturally gravitated to social beer-and-pretzel games like D&D.Meanwhile Japanese culture is more introverted (especially back then), so it naturally gravitated towards video games, and Wizardry happened to be at the right place at the right time in an era where video games were relatively new.Those nerds grew up and went on to make video games, using their respective cultural keystones as the template. And it snowballed to this day, because modern games are built off their predecessors, which in turn are built off either D&D or Wizardry.It's why most Western RPGs focus on roleplaying, dialogue, and narrative, just like D&D.And why most JRPGs focus on crunch and combat with only top-level roleplaying, just like Wizardry.
>>721127197I would play Class of Heroes Untold. I'm a casual, I need a story to motivate me to get to the next floor and the lack of one killed this game for me.
>>721142078gacha negroes get out, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>721142683>Not only does the music suck, the puzzles suck tooWhat a disaster of a game.I'd like to submit the following for contexthttps://youtu.be/QtjbJ48y-js
>>721145657Elise pits.
>>721124696I tried Wizardry VI recently and god that was uglyWhy the hell did they splatter green everywhere like that?
>>721146057EGA palettesat least the SNES port is super enhanced
>>721146094Even with a limited palette they didn't need to put green everywhere. Picrel isn't the most flagrant but look at Ola's portrait it makes no sense.
>>721146057>bolek>lolek>boniface
>>721131832>t.supports mindrapistbe better
>>721146057I always thought Wizardry looked like dogshit compared to Might and Magic. Compare Might and Magic 3 with Wizardry 6. They both were released around the same time.
I beat Daggerfall this month I think I pass muster
>>721127197>dwarfThat's a grudgin'.
>>721133172Man fuck OA I took a break and had no idea what the fuck I was doing. The last thing I remember was getting warped to a Train and losing my powers, then going to a Graveyard or Courtyard with triggers and didn't know wtf was going on. Game is too cryptic and there were no guides or community at the time.
>>721146317I know what you are.
>>721146373Don't make me summon the crows again
>>721146469It's just a full-body beard.
>had to drop Lands of Lore because I accidentally locked myself in a room full of highlevel endlessly respawning enemies with my last save being hours ago
>>721146675Just an enjoyer of eastern bloc animation getting a whiplash of child nostalgia
gimme dungeon crawlers with good puzzles. i wanna be stumped on a door asking me what the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow is
>>721147981obvious Grimrocks
>>721147981The Elder Scrolls Arena, tons of weird riddles
>>721148037played the shit out of those and its autistically massive custom map trio
>>721144934its easy as shit nowadaysjust play ranger and open up doors from far away by throwing food then kite enemies
>>721148053ill look into this one. feels like theres a drought of dungeon crawlers in the last decade
>>721148201not really, they're just went full indie and this board refuses to discuss anything without anime girl in it
>>721139501Only twelve? Gotta pump those numbers up! Those are rookie numbers!
>>721145731I liked it.
>>721124696WHERE'S MY MOD-TAN PORN?!IT BEEN YEARSFUCKING SAPES
>>721124696The guy who wrote that game ia schizophrenic
>>721152118Proofs?
>>721152185he made grimore
>>721126171If we're going on wizardry logic, Faith and Destiny are the Preist magic versions of Wisdom and Intelligence.
>>721139501That's just 1 row of 4 niggas, with 8 niggas in reserve!
>>721152118He's obviously trolling/exaggerating in most of his online posts. You're not supposed to take him very seriously.
Any good crawlan released in the past few years?
>>721154941Except he was 100% telling the truth when it came to Stones of Arnhem.
>>721149183On the easy side, but marching an army through the dungeon to Unga bunga club everything to death felt great.
Smt is a crawler right
>>721156929in some cases exaggerated but truthful, he himself said as much
>>721158120Persona?
>>721146057>ugly Get your eye tested anon,these sprites looked great!
>>721152118Huh qrd?
>>721159520>Doesn't know about Cleve's anticsPure sape attitude.
>>721156929Yeah like the other guy said, he exaggerated a lot of that even though the really nasty parts like the child abuse and degeneracy was real. Instead of having to "wade through a room filled with waist deep dildos and ass-pounder devices," it was really just a few dildos and buttplugs he saw on a dresser lmfao.
>>721159695I think it's hilarious that pathfinder kingmaker has a bunch of references to the Stones of Arnhem saga because the codex paid owlcat to put that quest in.
