Who was in the wrong here?
>>719279265youre mom
bald
>guy who was previously a deranged con man and crook before rapture>creates plasmids, which made splicers, and made everything with the orphanage>orchestrated the NYE attack>is the entire reason for the bioshock games existinggee anon, i wonder which one is worse lol.
>>719279265Fontaine because of his extremely insensitive Irish accentVery very disrespectful
>>719279265Honestly. One thing that my friend who studied politics told me.Is that if plasmids did not exist. Ryan's utopia would've worked. Just think about it. Do you disagree? If so why?
>>719279727is this a bot post? who the fuck talks like this?
>>719279779Bot here. You're a faggot. Now answer the question.
>>719279727God this argument is always so stupid. Everyone points at Adam and the Plasmids and says that they were the reason for Rapture's downfall. And then completely ignore the fact half the city was already disillusioned with Andrew Ryan long before the city fell>We all come down here, figured we'd all be part of Ryan's Great Chain. Turns out Ryan's chain is made of gold, and ours are the sort with the big iron ball around your ankle. He's up in Fort Frolic banging fashion models… we're down in this dump yanking guts outta fish. Fontaine's promising something better. He's like one-a us, you know, like he's worked a day in his life. He says meet him at his fish-packing joint at 11. I'll go, bring a couple of guys. Hey, it's not like things could get a lot worse.>These sad saps. They come to Rapture thinking they're gonna be captains of industry, but they all forget that somebody's gotta scrub the toilets. What an angle they gave me… I hand these mugs a cot and a bowl of soup, and they give me their lives. Who needs an army when I got Fontaine's Home for the Poor?Regular people had no protections in Rapture. If you couldn't stay on top of the totem pole then you were left to die with no help. And Andrew Ryan did not care what people were doing as long as they were making money. If it wasn't Adam and Plasmids, it would've been something else
>>719279265Fontaine for calling the jewess a kraut instead of kike.
They both were in the wrong. But Fontaine was clearly much more wrong/thread
>>719279727Any libertarian state will just end as an uber corrupt shithole where 0.1% of the population own all the wealth while the rest suffer till they inevitably chimp out. It's a meme ideology for 12 year olds.
>>719279265How the fuck did Fontaine fool people by playing a chinaman for six months?
>>719279727Plasmids only caused the sci-fi stuff. You'd still have businesses using every underhanded tactic possible, people getting exploited, regular drugs, little to no actual laws, and Ryan would still become big brother when things got ugly.
>>719280425>On the surface, the Parasite expects the doctor to heal them for free, the farmer to feed them out of charity. How little they differ from the pervert who prowls the streets, looking for a victim he can ravish for his grotesque amusement.>There has been tremendous pressure to regulate this Plasmid business. There have been side effects: blindness, insanity, death. But what use is our ideology if it is not tested? The market does not respond like an infant, shrieking at the first sign of displeasure. The market is patient, and we must be too.>Is there blood in the streets? Of course. Have some chosen to destroy themselves with careless splicing? Undeniable. But I will make no proclamations, I will dictate no laws. The Great Chain moves slowly, but with wisdom. It is our impatience that invites in the Parasite of big government. And once you've invited it in, it will never stop feeding on the body of the city.People were begging Andrew Ryan to enforce some kind of regulation. Fucking Steinman was turning people into Picasso paintings in his medical practice because a voice in his head told him symmetry was cringe. And yet the only time Ryan betrayed his beliefs was when he was affected personally. Fontaine was a piece of shit but he was a piece of shit enabled by Ryan.
>>719279265Ryan.Fontaine is a criminal. He knows what he is and makes no pretenses about it.Ryan is a moron.
>Frank Fontaine wants to become leader of Rapture and surface the entire city to sell plasmids to the whole planet to become a drug lordIs this guy a retard that if some random fucking city with no affiliate appears, every country is likely gonna attack the place?
>>719280113>If it wasn't Adam and Plasmids, it would've been something elseyou are making an assumption here, you have no idea what would have happened. all you have to go off of is the fact that the plasmids DID ruin rapture.
>>719279495>Andrew Ryan creates the conditions in which it's incredibly easy to create an army of fireball throwing schizophrenics because "muh bootstraps"
>>719280968didn't they have nukes and shit too? I figured he was angling to be the top dick of conflict-ridden shitholes
>>719281194What the fuck kind of argument is this lmfao, yeah we don't KNOW anything, it's pure speculation?
>>719280968>Didn't finish the game in the bad ending splicers surface with a nuke lmfao
>>719281194Frank Fontaine was already smuggling in products from the outside such as Bibles. By Andrew Ryan's own logic, Bibles should be allowed because it's a niche people are willing to pay for but he refused to allow in anything that doesn't glorify him. Drugs were on the table in Rapture. Not just Adam, but good old fashioned Crack. And let's not forget Fontaine also had a whole lot of guns. You don't need superpowers to inspire a rebellion, you just need enough angry people with the arms and lack of self preservation
>>719279561very racist gainst ta orish like me i tell ya
>>719281194Raptures foundation was never something built to last. An isolationist nation composed of rich sociopaths, like yeah how long before they all go crazy over resources or ethics? Not to mention Ryan thinking hes some infallible god.
>>719280179hmm, can i see your loicence to critic capitalism like that ?
Ryan because his philosophy is fundamentally incorrect, fontaine was a thug but he wasn't spewing shit.
>>719279265>Ryan creates an objectivist utopia>gets butthurt when a guy who represents the platonic ideal of his philosophy arrives and shits on everythingSucks to suck.
>>719279727Ryan doesn't even hold to his own libertarian ideals. He has a monopoly on power and oxygen production that he would destroy the city over instead of relinquish to another party. Anything that portrays another power having ultimate authority over man is banned because he is a jealous god. He just wanted a safe space where he could get away with his shitty underhanded dealings. Rapture is a closed system. The wealth never trickles back down once you have everyone bargaining their own wages down to gain an edge over their peers. The mass of destitute could only increase. The magic slugs had nothing to do with it. They merely accelerated the revolution. You could have replaced them with super sci-fi weapons and you would have the same effect.
>>719279727Rapture needed perfect conditions to exist, one Fontaine or Lamb winning over most if not all of the low class citizens with a fucking bowl of soup or free therapies is enough to start the city's downfall. The lack of Adam wouldn't change much, except making it possible for the situation to slowly improve after the civil war ends because the population would be much more sane.
>>719279265Fontaine in every aspect.
Is American Krogan actually retarded? How does he spin a notorious self hating Jew writing a story full of irredeemable psychopathic Jews as supposedly meaning to inspire sympathy for them? Cohen, Steinman, and Ryan are explicitly portrayed as unsympathetic and evil.
why is he bald
>>719283174Its right wing jews (libertarians) vs leftwing jews. Infinite is the one that's irredeemable.
Ryan's idea is retarded for one reason.not everyone can win, and the losers have to have something to do, somewhere to go.he explicitly made it illegal to leave Rapture, and that was the critical flaw, the one crack in the whole foundation, this allowed Frank to create his criminal business by getting contraband in to the city.you can't bring a ton of people as workers and expect them to somehow become leaders of Industry in some extremely zero some game.
>>719283550> you can't bring a ton of people as workers and expect them to somehow become leaders of Industry in some extremely zero some gameThats our entire existence and 99% of humanity is fine with it
>>719279727No utopia exists for longer than a generation or 2 before the people born into it want change
>>719283550Ryan's philosophy is a very surface reading ayn rand. trying to dissect it is useless because Ken Levine would never give rands philosophy a fair examination.
>>719283720no, it isn't, because you can go somewhere else, Rapture is taking society and pressurizing it and isolating it to such a degree it reaches its failure point exponentially faster.plus in "our existence" wages can be raised by the state (they haven't for some time and because of it wage stagnation has fucked everyone) among other counterbalance forces.people in Rapture reached abject poverty in a place where there was no safety net and NO LEAVING, so they turned to crime, Ryan's system doesn't work in a place where you cannot ever leave.
>>719281524In the 'bad' ending, Jack takes control of the splicers (via the pheromones that Ryan was using) and has them hijack a Navy sub.
>>719283854this is true, he's a left wing jew, and he hated the sequel because it made collectivism (and by extension socialism and communism) look as insane as it really is.
>>719283984I remember someone making a funny point that rapture failed because they essentially found genetic magic.
>>719279265>pie in the sky delusional libertarianvs>the reason we can't have nice things
>>719283720Nut we don't live on a fishbowl underwater
I finally read Atlus Shrugged and most of it was Dagny thirsting over guys before ending with Ayn Rand's thesis on objectivism. Not a great read.
Where do they shit?
I dont care for ayn rand (atlas shrugged should have ended after the first train journey instead of inventing some retarded infinite energy machine) but I dont know why people treat this as a rebuttal to her, "b-but what if everyone was addicted to mind altering drugs, rands ideas wouldnt work then would they" isnt a valid argument
>>719279727It did work right up until then so no shit.
>>719283174>>719283461>tfw Andrew Ryan might've supported the construction of Israel if it weren't for early Israel's socialist governmentthis theory is brought to you by AIPAC and Ben Gurion International Airport
>suspicious the KGB and CIA are trying to subvert Rapture>doesn't give a second thought about the mafia smuggler he employsthe smartest man....
>>719279495He's pretty up front about it in his audiologs. If it wasn't him, someone else would have done it. It was a powder keg because it turns out creating a money siphon in a closed system pretty much ends one way. Guardrails aren't always a bad thing for a society.
>>719284894>If it wasn't him, someone else would have done itNigger tier logic why one should steal something or otherwise act without morals.
>>719284750I think the association between modern Israel and rapture shouldn't be discounted. ken levine defiantly would of been thinking about the parallels.
>>719284376Good on you for reading it. Very few objectivists have ever actually read rand.I try to make it a point to read stuff everyone talks about but has never actually read.
>>719279265Fontaine is so retarded and his plot is retarded. Everyone covets the setting but the actual plot for Bioshock is so fucking peak retard. The evil route has you take over the world with like 50 splicers and nuclear missles, its so fucking stupid
>>719280179In one of the novels I think there was a segment where a guy who owned a restaurant had a competitor who owned a garbage collection service and a restaurant, and wouldn't pick up the first guy's garbage. How do you, in your libertarian ancapistan state, deal with a problem like that?
>>719283174Did you forget Tenembaum's existence? The infallible Mary Sue who's running circles around nazi scientists at the infant age of 5? The female figure that is obviously ideated from jewish matriarchy?
>>719279265>who was in the wrong the guy who owns the city or a literal thieflol
>>719279727>is impossible to start a revolution without plasmidslmao fucking retard
>>719281390Yes, because nothing like that could have happened anywhere else. It could have only happened in a "objectivist Libertarian paradise" like Rapture.
>>719280179Communism and libertarianism both suffer from the exact same flaw- both are built on the false premise that people won't do absolutely everything in their power to game the system and accumulate power. Capitalism certainly has it's flaws, but it at least is built from the ground up around a realistic view of human nature.But really the biggest issue with the current western cultural sphere is that it has gone from a Democratic culture with Capitalist economics to a Capitalist culture with some Democratic government still desperately hanging on trying to hold back megacorps from just outright buying chunks of the government.
>>719285026but its true in that situation, Frank isn't special, that's the point, he's just the guy "filling a niche" which is ironically exactly what Ryan built Rapture for.Frank is just MORE of an entrepanuer than Ryan is.
>>719286414flawed view, the Government is hand in hand with Megacorps and supposedly aggressive enemy Goverments (China)maybe the Fed Spooks and the CIA are battling them but I doubt itour elected officials simply couldn't sell you out more if they tried, and they are, day by day trying really fucking hard.
>>719284454>I dont care for ayn rand (atlas shrugged should have ended after the first train journey instead of inventing some retarded infinite energy machine) but I dont know why people treat this as a rebuttal to her, "b-but what if everyone was addicted to mind altering drugs, rands ideas wouldnt work then would they" isnt a valid argumentdumbo it was already failing and fontaine would have eventually led a rebellion, gene-spliced mutants or not
ME WEE BABY PATRICK!
Is it worth reading Atlas Shrugged
>>719279727>If nothing bad exists things would be goodThat's great but their are endless replacements for plasmids.
>>719290157No. Ignoring everything else it's just really long, repetitive, and boring.
>>719279265the mick
>>719279265>virgin libertarian vs chad ubermensch
>>719283306A vacuum bot has sucked all of his hair.
>>719283720Rapture doesn't have a third world.
>>719286068that's not anon's point, you retard. Rapture being an objectivist libertarian paradise turns it from a possibility into an inevitability
>>719281458Based response, I honestly lol'd when I read what that anon wrote.
>>719280828>because a voice in his head told him symmetry was cringekek
>>719290157watch the movies if your that interested. rand is a very dry writer.
>>719285186I don't understand what the issue here is. Spiteful assholes are a dime a dozen regardless of political ideology.
>>719290620I liked The Fountainhead and Anthem a lot. They were both written well enough that they held my interest from start to finish.
