FXAA/SMAA - barely do anything. SSAA/MSAA - too heavy, don't even function properly anymore. TAA - blurry, also terrible below 1440p.New AA method when? One that doesn't need hardware acceleration like DLSS4/FSR4.
>>719398809MSAAx2 isn't really that heavy
>>719398809>no aa>nearest neighbor texture filteringalright its gaming time
Hardware acceleration is le bad because?
>>719398809>like DLSS4/FSR4Stopped reading there. The solution is right there with DLAA so I'm not sure why you've arbitrarily excluded it.
>>719398809DLAA is the only decent looking solution for modern games, get over it
There's no way to do good efficient anti aliasing without some help from AI
>>719399037While I hate mid journey and chat GPT and all that crap, some people are so annoyed by all of it that they hate every single thing that's even slightly related to AI. It's weird
Weird how we never used to have this issue.
>>719399037NOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOO SHUT UP! DLSS IS LE BAD BECAUSE I HATE DLSS OR SOMETHING
Wouldn't higher resolution solve this issue? Like 8k but regular monitor size
>>719399229Prices of the cards have doubled every 2 years since its introduction. If you don't hate dlss then you aren't a real gamer.
>>719399276yes at just 64x the pixel cost
>>719399359Even tho 2060 costs nothing now?
>>719398938>MSAAx2 isn't really that heavyStill not worth using because it just... doesn't do anything anymore. Works nicely in older games but the jaggies are still there in modern games with MSAA.
>>719398809>msaa don't even function anymoreretarded take, it's up to the devs to implement it properly and to make sure edge cases like specular AA and other countermeasures is built into the shader, it's not MSAA's fault their lazy as fuck these days
>>719399440Bullshit. There would barely be any stock left if they even have any.
>>719399813MSAA is dead for a long time. I don't remember the last time I enabled it.
>>719398964Said no person ever before 2022
>>719399551MSAA fundamentally doesn't work in most modern games due to the rendering pipeline they use. Nowadays only post-processed blurring can help with jaggies, with DLSS/DLAA probably being the best solution.
>>719399172>if I smear shit over shit I can't see the original shit
>>719399172Damn CRTs are honestly fucking magical, especially for low res
I don't mind the aliasing. It feels very nostalgic.
>>719398938>it's not MSAA's fault their lazy as fuck these dayswhat's the last game in which msaa actually functioned correctly?
>>719399440Yes, used cards are cheap, what's your point?
I remember the TAA in Doom 2016 being okay, whatever it was called, it added a lot of blur but not in motion, and the sharpening filter fixed the blur but didn't fuck up the overall look, unlike in Deus Ex: MD, and the game was so optimized you could couple it with dsr/vsr.
>>719399359a brand new rtx3060 12gb is around 300 bucks now
>>719398809Just embrace the alis
>>719401760CS2
>>719399172>wow I can't believe this 100-pixel image looks bad when I enlarge it up to 2080x1304
>>719400557its retarded because it works if they try. gta5 and rdr2 support taa,dlss,fsr,msaa,fxaa,smaa,etc. so does skyrim.
>FXAA: OFF>SMAA: OFF>SSAA: OFF>MSAA: OFF>TAA: LOW/OFF>AMBIENT OCCLUSION: OFF>REFLECTION: LOW>PARTICLE EFFECTS: LOW>SHADOWS: HIGH>RESOLUTION: 1440p
>>719402893MSAA has visual issues in both RDR2 and GTAV. It wasn't phased out because developers suddenly started drinking Nvidia koolaid, it was phased out because the pursuit of more complex graphics had shifted rendering into a mode that is not compatible with MSAA. AC Unity and Deus Ex MK are the latest big graphically pretty games to support MSAA yet it's nigh-useless in them. The more graphically heavy a game is, the more useless (and heavy) MSAA is.
Supersampling should be the industry standard.Every game should be optimized to run at 4x current standard resolution. 1. It will look good2. It will run good3. Even old devices can run the game just by disabling SSAA4. Devs will have to earn their pay
>>719399172retard
>>719398809I prefer the haze that comes with antialiasing. Ironic, that your example with anti aliasing looks fuzzier. Maybe i'm not understanding something here.Either way, I prefer the jaggines in some games. Adds a dream like quality similar to the ps1 wobble. This wouldn't fly well in a fast passed shooter however, where crisp graphics mean life or death.
>>719403371clueless take by an individual who knows nothing of graphics development and will gladly take whatever shit the industry shovels into their mouth without question
What's wrong with DLAA?
>>719403729Clueless take by a 15 year old retard who doesn't understand the difference between forward, deferred, and forward+clustered rendering and wants the entire world to bend to his ignorance.
>>719403704I'm seriously confused.Right is blurry, like OPs pic. Without Anti aliasing, its crisper. So why is the PSP version blurry despite not having anti-aliasing?Please explain, i'm retarded.
>>719403594Even 4x SSAA will look like shit in modern games if no other AA is used.It will simply not hide dithering and specular shimmering.
>>719399551That's not even jaggies. That's just incredibly shit LOD.
>>719403594You need some kind of temporal layer with how modern graphics work. You can spam endless pixels at your graphics but it will not help if the game is designed from the ground up for temporal passes and denoisers, it will always look visually buggy. What you're really asking for is for games to be completely cleansed of temporal dependency.
>>719403929>It will simply not hide dithering and specular shimmering.Those effects happen because doing these correctly have a cost. Deferred Rendering is dogshit that should be used only for very specific games. Use forward lighting, get transparency for free, work on optimization, and you will get my money.
>>719398809i finally know what antialiasing isthere's all these weird words atached to graphix that i never understood>muh antialiasing>muh ray tracing>muh poligon count>muh frame per second>muh particle effect>muh motion blurr>muh high definitioni miss the bitwars so fucking muchthings were so much easyer when you didn't have to check so many stats to figure a console's power level
>>719403770Having to put up with nvidia is a big one.
>>719403925Much lower resolution
>>719404047>how modern graphics workAnd we need to stop using those retarded techniques. Simple cost analysis. >Pre-2015We discovered this new way of solving X without effecting any other subsystem.>Post-2025We discovered this new way of solving X but we sacrifice, Y, Z, W. But we will use this other technique to solve those which will make it harder to get transparency, hair but we will use dithering for that. Also that means MSAA is off the table, but we will use TAA.
>>719404103I want forward rendering to make a comeback.We could get our working mirrors back as well.I don't care what AAA industry does, but smaller studios don't need all the UE5 bloat to make their games.
>>719404304>We discovered this new way of solving X without effecting any other subsystem.Come on now. MSAA was cool, but "without effecting any other subsystem" nigga it raped performance the same way raytracing does now.
>>719403809spoken like a true dumbass midwit, I've worked in all of those pipelines, you should know better than this, most of these issues people point out in MSAA is due to specular shimmering and terrible geometry, the former can be easily fixed with specular AA built into the shader which costs nothing and there's plenty of implementations, papers, and code examples to use out there the latter is the industry being made up of lazy twats and cost-cutting publisherspeople like you need to be hung from trees, maybe the industry will start to learn there is more to life than post-processing based AA forced down their throat from dogshit engines once their rabid defenders and apologists shut their mouth
>>719404384>MSAAThe thing with MSAA is that you disable it, and all you get is a native 1:1 pixel render of your ingame world.>Disable TAA/FXAAYou get some sort abomination where anything goes.Also Simplicity is key:SSAA/MSAA you render at 4x resolution, blend 2x2 pixels into 1 profitBut now:>AI>GPU specific feature that does something>You render two frames at different timestep, then do a sort of motion/blurry blend>Insert AI to detect those blends and use machine learning to optimize thatFuck all of this
>>719398809I have a 4k monitor. No AA looks better than any of the AA options, with one exception.For games that are super easy to run, 4xDSR with 0% smoothness creates a perfectly anti-aliased image with no compromises.
>>719404594Sure, sure. Top end graphics programmers are all wrong and random 4chan buzzword spouter is correct, just flip on MSAA and scream the word "OPTIMIZE OPTIMIZE OPTIMIZE" at the top of your lungs, that'll make it work.
>>719404697I have a 4k monitor too, no AA in deferredslop looks like there are ants crawling all over the screen.
>>719404824>Disable TAA/FXAA>You get some sort abomination where anything goes.>>719404824>ants crawling all over the screen.Yep, those are called "npi
>>719404918*noise
>>719404614>The thing with MSAA is that you disable it, and all you get is a native 1:1 pixel render of your ingame world.If that were true, there would be no need for antialiasing.
>>719398809Proper AA was scuffed when we moved largely to deferred rendering from forward rendering, at that point you could no longer go back and re-sample the game scene for additional values that increased the amount of information (samples) used, per pixel.FXAA and SMAA were born because they're just shaders that do fancy blurring on the final image, a lot like photoshop would, you lose quality because you cant increase the samples of the scene from the perspective of these AA techniques they're just working essentially an image. You can try and do edge detection and only blur there, but it's really bad.TSAA is not a huge amount better, it gets extra samples across multiple frames and so is essentially blurring temporally which at best just helps stop jitter.The only real AA left is SSAA where you render higher res than your screen then downscale that into your native res, but that's expensive as hell and almost never implemented. Sometimes you see this as "render resolution" these days when you can go over 100%. e.g 200% for this is essentially like 2xAA. Double the res and so quadruple the pixels. 1080p would be like running 4k, 4k would be like running 8k, performance hit is crazy for anything but older games.DLSS is your best option these days because the AI is trained on source images that are like 16k with AA applied, they're already way higher quality. Stick with quality mode for DLSS and a high target resolution and you'll get quite nicely anti aliased rendering.MSAA is only going to work in very old titles that used forward rendering, it can't work with deferred which is what most games use these days for the many other benefits that brings
>>719404721Did I ever say anything about optimization you peasant? Keep garbling on the industry's cock by saying they know better with absolutely no logic attached to it, you should know well enough that current graphics development in AAA games barely has anything to do with pushing the fold, but more making the iterative process of creative development faster and cheaper, with the consumer paying for it in the end with sloppy products buried in massive amounts of technical debts created by underpaid contractors and greedy companies peddling dogshit engines
>>719405010There's is no such thing as 1:1 pixel in real life. Which is why you need anti-aliasing to remove those square blocks.
>>719399276No. It's actually the opposite. Stronger hardware with smaller monitors would fix the issue, 8k downscaled to 4k on ~32" would look super smooth. But we all know (((they))) gonna push 8k 48" monitors long before we will be able to run even fucking 4k (because we still can't).
>>719406047Implying deferred rendering is somehow better and the golden solution to all the problems.
>>719399551It doesn't work on any modern games even if you try to force the issue because MSAA is fundamentally incompatible with deferred rendering.Just run your game at 4K internal resolution on a 1080p monitor and call it a day.
>>719406327>8kNice meme. Mainstream cards can't even keep 720p 60 anymore.
>>719406327>But we all know (((they))) gonna push 8k 48" monitors long before we will be able to run even fucking 4k (because we still can't).And even then Nvidia will never let it happen. Because that implies there are diminishing returns on new GPUs.
>>719406327If you need to artifically limit your monitor size just to get good antialiasing, then it's not good antialiasing.
>>719403925In real life we have diagonal lines, games are rendered on approximately square grids of pixels. If you want a diagonal black line on a white background like OP then either you get a staircase look (aliasing, or "jaggies") or you sample each pixel multiple times from the game world and you find that parts of the pixel should be the black line, some parts should be white, so you average those colors to grey.Now when you zoom out and view that grid (aka your monitor) from a normal distance the diagonal line looks more like a diagonal line than a staircase with a step effect. AA used to work this way but because of technical limitations it can't do that additional sampling of the scene to average the pixels. Those limitations are just trade offs, while AA is messier now, other benefits come in the form of lighting, shadows, more dynamic scenes, etc.
>>719406440Dude, that's not even reading comprehension. That's like reading one sentence per thread. Stop watching tiktoks.
>>719406353>Just run your game at 4K internal resolution on a 1080p monitor and call it a day.That is absurd. Inputting 4x more pixels on your screen than you can actually render is like cutting off your entire body because your knee hurts a bit.
>>719406754Okay, don't limit it. We already have 32", it's more than enough for a desktop monitor, anything bigger is plain retarded if you want it on your desk. You still can render games at any resolution on your 4k display, just give the players "supersampling" AA option.
why is it only poors who complain about FSR/DLSS? lmao
>>719406919That's literally what supersampling is. That's the only good choice nowadays; the alternative is vaseline smear.
>>719407251It's laughably inefficient. You're better off just getting a 4k monitor and playing natively at that resolution, instead of forcing such an ungodly amount of pixels onto a 1080p screen just to stabilize the image a little bit.
>>719407364And then you have an aliased image or vaseline smear.It being inefficient is why people bitch and moan about the absolute state of antialiasing, congrats on missing the point.
>>719406352No they're all trade offs, you can get true MSAA by not using deferred rendering but you lose other benefits. I'm not advocating for any specific use case but the industry has gone with deferred renders because the general opinion is that the benefits outweigh the costs. That doesn't mean that it's a golden solution, at the end of the day it's just opinion, but they're going with an opinion that has the broadest possible positive impact.Golden solutions are black and white childish thinking, as you get older and watch all this tech mature (I'm 42 now and seen it all) what you learn is that most of the time it's just shades of grey and tradeoffs, there's rarely 1 best way to do things.For example you can use deferred rendering and then use SSAA or what is now called DSR (it's not new, it's just renamed) like this anon >>719404697 but then you're rendering speed is going to dramatically drop and anything new will be unplayable OR you'll have to disable other graphics settings to lower the load on the GPU as a trade off.
>>719407550I have a 4k monitor right next to a 1080p monitor right now. Ten times out of ten I'd rather play at native 4k than play at 4x DSR 1080p, the image quality is infinitely better.
>>719404594>and terrible geometry>the latter is the industry being made up of lazy twats and cost-cutting publishersIt seems you watched too much Thread Interactive. So what's your suggestion? Devs should not make any complex geometry? "This chain link fence is too complicated for AA, let's replace with a solid wall."
>>719404594>the former can be easily fixed with specular AA built into the shader which costs nothing and there's plenty of implementations, papers, and code examples to use out there OK show me any of these papers and code examples online that show how you can instantly solve specular aliasing with 0 cost.
>>719406965Most of the time games either support dynamic resolution now, OR you can just go in your drivers/control panel and force 2xSSAA for a game but it's incredibly expensive performance wise. You can't realistically do this with modern games.Increasing screen size without increasing resolution doesn't help because it makes individual pixels larger which makes a greater need for AA in the first place. Alias is always more obvious when your pixel size is larger.Unironically you do get an anti aliasting effect merely running smaller screens in very high resolutions, some of the early Dell monitors I rememebr being like 4 over 24" or something which is silly, but looked actually very good in person.
>>719398809I play with DLSS4 at 4k, looks amazing and runs great. Not my problem.
>>719402750The idea is that it does not look bad enlarged on a CRT.
>>719408328>it doesn't look enlarged on a device that isn't enlargedwow
>>719407364The image is rendered at bigger resolution but an AA effect is introduced when you down sample that image for your lower res monitor. All AA comes with some performance cost.Running at higher native res like 4k, is only an argument if your monitor size is unusually small, most 4k panels are larger, because shrinking pixel size is hard (expensive).What ultimately matters is pixels size in your visual field which means physical pixel size and your distance from it (apparent size)
>>719408596CRTs are enlarged. That's why they turn the square pixels into circles. You're an uneducated little worm.
>>719399551That's not what MSAA is for, MSAA super samples the edges of meshes, what you're looking at is too high of a frequency of detail within a texture. Likely they need to adjust their mip level and make sure they're using trilinear filtering, I would personally just not author the texture with such a high frequency of detail if it's going to be used in that context.
>>719409416>what you're looking at is too high of a frequency of detail within a texture.If the solution to making MSAA viable again is to just reduce detail then the real solution is to go back to 2010 graphics.
>>719408806Not my fault if you don't understand the concept of dots per inch.
>>719399551MSAA was never that great to begin with. I installed Doom 3 on a whim this summer and decided to try MSAA16x at 4k. That's an insane pixel count with an insane amount of sampling, killed my framerate, and even then I could see image instability. On some grates and railings whenever the angle shifted. That's at 3840x2160 MSAA16x, a game that was on release usually played at 800x600 MSAA2x.As soon as graphics moved beyond cardboard tier, MSAA stopped being able to do what it was advertised to do. I don't get why it gets so much nostalgia nowadays, it wasn't a catch-all solution and its performance price was heavy. TAA being blurry really messed up people's perception of how historically poor nearly all AA methods have been.
>>719409508Doom Eternal is a 2010 game? WTF
>>719409847Doom Eternal is TAAslop that looks weirdly soft as soon as you turn off the massive default sharpening.
>>719409793>That's at 3840x2160 MSAA16xyou are doing something extremely wrong if you're seeing aliasing with these settings. i cannot see aliasing at 1080p MSAA4x in source games.most likely you are not running at the resolution or multisampling setting that you think you are
>>719409793That's an anisotropic filtering and mipmapping problem and not MSAA's fault.
>>719398809Unironically, CRT screens. Second best is DLP projectors given they're pixel grids/noise. They have natural anti-aliasing built in given the nature of aperture grilles and photon projection. Seeking out "perfect" displays with no pixel separation or noise has completely destroyed graphics in gaming and hardware requirements. Go play any current AAA game at 1024x768 on a CRT monitor and you will see immediately that it looks amazing, with no aliasing and somehow looks more "real".
>>719409793graphics are not the problem, they're mathematically perfect. Displays are.
>>719410868>graphics are not the problem, they're mathematically perfectNo? They are discretized, for one. If we wanted to more faithfully represent the ground truth image we could simply do supersampling and not limit ourselves to the display resolution, then all of our AA problems would vanish.
>>719401760it would have to be a game where the lighting is baked, including shadows. because per pixel lighting and shadows are the main sources of aliasing, and they happen after MSAA so there's nothing MSAA could do about them (it's a vertex shader effect, the vertex stage is before the pixel stage).>>719402248mostly. unfortunately specular reflections / highlights alias in CS2. not sure how or if they managed to stop aliasing from the real-time shadows somehow. the lighting at least doesn't cause aliasing as it's all baked.
4K feels like a curse.I want a 720p gaming monitor instead.
>>719398809We had perfectly fucking working AA in the '90s.
>>719409793Doom 3 drew all of its shadows in the pixel shader. there's no way MSAA could stop aliasing in Doom 3. the image quality you got was effectively just 4K no AA. the MSAAx16 isn't gonna do shit as it happens before the high contrast light sources are added to the image.>>719411150we didn't have per pixel lighting and shadows in the 90s (with few exceptions).
>>719410585Another retard who doesn't know the concept of dots per inch.
Btw we also need to bring back 4:3 aspect ratio.
>>719410868Graphical rendering is innately flawed. Pixels and traditional pixel sampling methods are why standard rendering is never actually a 1:1 visualization of the in-game simulation, and it's why you see image instability and visual issues. The only solutions to fixing rendering is to either get a near-infinite number of pixels (8k-16k for the current level of graphical fidelity), inventing more advanced pixel sampling methods, or adding some kind of additional step to the render process that acts as a quality controller (DLSS kinda does this)
>>719409793MSAA was praised more so back then because we tended to run much lower resolutions with simpler geometry, you notice aliasing a lot more on simple square object, and less so on a nicely smoothed mesh where the size of polygons is approaching the size of the pixel samples (think tessellation and later nanite)Performance hit was a lot less when we reached the Radeon 7900 era, the first time ATI really gave Nvidia a beat down in the high end. I think then was around the time the hardware was built to accelerate this better because its use was becoming common.higher levels of MSAA were more expensive like 4x and 8x, and they gave diminishing returns for obvious reasons. But having some was almost universally better than none.Grates and railings didn't work because MSAA targeted edges of polygons, not their interiors. There was eventually a hack for "transparency AA" or TRAA at the time, that forced usually SS patches where transparency was used which was nice, but very expensive. I remember using this in BF2 on grass and chainlink fences. I don't think the stencil shadows in Doom3 could be AA either? I forget.Primarily it mattered how you distributed your additional samples inside the pixel boundary, there was no objective best way, back then ATI used some rotated grid pattern, but you could do it however you liked. It meant that MSAA was better at AA for specific angle lines that are more or less common in certain games. Some ended up causing awful moire patterns.MSAA ended up redundant because it was on the losing end of a trade off, it became impossible to implement in deferred rendering so it died. It wasn't because MSAA itself was bad, it was superior in most ways other than speed to all shader based AA that came to replace it. (FXAA and SMAA)
>>719411421no, you're a fucking idiot. I have my CRT directly next to my 4k monitor. I can (and have) matched high and low resolution of both to approximate the same relative DPI, you are just a zoomer who has never seen a CRT and doesn't understand that pixel obfuscation is a good thing. Your eyes are not perfect, photons are not perfect, they are messy and bounce everywhere.There is close to zero AA on a CRT or DLP projector. I'm guessing extremely high resolution noise generators built into displays, or textured panels will end up being the modern solution.
>>719411827You don't know what you are talking about. Anti-aliasing methods were always a thing. Just because you like the "filter" on your movie doesn't mean everybody does.
>>719411631or just obfuscating pixels with noise/pixel separation. You guys are way overcomplicating this. Round pixels, cloud spatter pixels, spackle there are so many possible solutions and they are all hardware display solutions. The way that rasterized graphics work (which we have unfortunately permanently committed to) it is impossible to simulate how photos/videos/film look. Photos are and film are downsampling from an infinite number of "pixels" (reality). Graphics are building them from scratch. The only other least expensive software solution I can imagine working is Generative AI building the entire frame based on game logic and a visual skeleton (not DLSS but fully generated). If they went that route, you could instantly switch between different "aesthetics" in your game with a toggle (cel-shaded to 70mm film, action movie etc. like those stupid AI what if game was movie videos on yt)
>>719401431Same.Real men keep the aliasing off and the pixels on.I love pixels.
>>719412194Close your eyes right now. Do you see perfect solid black or is there subtle and vague noise. Tell me right now.
I dont get it. What does dlss and fsr even do? How does it work?
>>719411631>standard rendering is never actually a 1:1 visualization of the in-game simulationi don't get it, why not
>>719412369because straight lines only exist in mathematics, the game tells the display to light up dots in closest approximation to where that line would be. All polygons are comprised of tris, all tris are comprised of straight lines.
>>719412368Gain FPS by rendering the game at a lower resolution, like 720p instead of 1080p for 1080p instead of 4K. Then upscale the image and use AI magic to try to restore the details lost.
>>719398809>One that doesn't need hardware acceleration like DLSS4/FSR4.so you're just poor, got it
>>719412262if your camera captured an infinite amount of photons every photo you take would just be full white. of course rasterization can simulate how cameras work. we are just at an early stage where we are raytracing with only 0.5-4 samples per pixel. the amount required to render photorealism is already known. "offline" 3D rendering is a solved problem. all we lack is the hardware to do it many times per second.also that AI shit would suck the last remaining soul out of video games. let's hope it never happens.
MSAA is great but the performance tax is RTX tierI remember playing Hitman absolution back in the day at a rock steady framerate, the moment i bumped up the settings by enabling MSAA it suddenly became a slideshow, all to hide some jaggies at a distance, ludicrous
>>719412368it make small picture, then to make it big picture it ask the smart part of the graphic thingy to "imagine" what big version would look like based on small version and a bunch of memories of other big pictures.
>>719398809DLAA is objectively the best right now. Seriously the best AA I've seen.
>>719402119That's what's a 970 costed and 3060 is 2 gens old
>>719412597Fsr doesn't use AI it's trash
>>719411631>>719412262Retards. It's time to brush up your signal processing 101.
>>719412759Ray Tracing is noise bouncing, it randomizes the rays it simulates (even in high quality offline rendering they just run the sims longer). My point still stands, it's noise. Rasterized graphics are too perfect to look good on "perfect" displays. So either we need to noisify the display, or noisify the raster, or commit to full real time RT or commit to generative AI. Rasterization is a dead end given how displays have evolved and the fact that we use square pixels.
>>719398809just make your own
upscaling AI fearmongering is sillyyou are literally getting scared of an advanced algo
>>719409508I mean, yeah, go look at the GDC talk Valve's head engine guy did for Half-Life Alyx.
>>719399050DLAA is still too blurry
>>719398809DLAA already exists anon,
>>719398809Just downsample instead of using AA.
what resolution my eyes have? why edges look good irl
>>719413314It makes my monitor look like a psp screen with all that ghosting
>>719413314great, now show it in motion
>>719413674https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeMcqgOrwWQ
>>719413314dlss looks ok, but far too blurry in motion, jensen is just on his retarded "for every one pixel we generate we make up 16 more!" shit.Maybe for vr or something, with foveated rendering, but across the whole fucking screen? might as well play on a crt
>>719413732>compared to fsrOk you're fucking stupid.But ignoring that the dlss side looks like shit.
>>719413314lmao imagine using cherry picked, marketing demo.Reminder that NJIDIA did a fake Death Stranding comparison to prove AI upscale was better than native rendering, but instead they never used the high quality texture. Never trust these images.
>>719413809you want compared to what?raw 720P
>>719398809The only solution is to buy a 4320p monitor.
They're only pushing this framegen dlss shit because console will never EVER go past 60 fps without it.
>>719413517Ray Tracing
>>719413862FSR is the same technology and equally shit just done worse.Compare it to msaa 16x or eat a dick.
>>719413881And why does it matter whether consoles go past 60? Peasants have been eating their 30 FPS (minus tip) slop for 40 years
>>719413967https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqZ4s_bdDHEhere an actual 720p raw vs dlss for you
>>719413517>what resolution my eyes haveDepends on the distance, but at about 3 feet ~15000x15000
>>719398809No need for it. It doesn't have to be perfect, the existing methods before TAA took over were enough.
>>719414004This is an even worse test, you're effectively just comparing a 720 image and a 4k image.
>>719412802>but the performance tax is RTX tierComparison with RTX is pretty good.People enable RT only if they have monster specs. And if their FPS tanks, it's the very first option people disable.It was the same for MSAA. It was literally the very first option people were disabling in their games to gain FPS.
>>719414125???both have the same internal resolution...you do know what that means right?
>>719398809Nothing functions. This is by design. FSR and DLSS and especially TSR will remain the only options available.
>>719414165Yes, it means that for one of them you're just multiplying each pixel by 4, and for the other one you're doing gpu math making it a 4k render.
>>719414027>15000x15000ok just make monitor that and lets go home
>>719413208RT doesn't need noise inherently. you could send rays out into completely deterministic patterns. but the visual result would need a lot more samples to achieve the same quality. noise is good so we use it to get results faster.
>>719414341Sure, we just have to wait about 10 years for display port 6.
>>719414316wow it is like ... it is rendering in a superior way!!!
>>719414568>wow it is like ... it is rendering in a superior way!!!Again, go back and brush up your signal processing 101. I am not gonna argue with illiterates.
DLAA is so blurry I can't stand using it. I'd rather have jagged edges.None: https://files.catbox.moe/of4gj8.pngDLAA: https://files.catbox.moe/111u4u.png
>>719414568Yeah, at 16x the resolution.
>>719414626Looks the same
>>719414708Get a good monitor.
>>719412262>>719413208Dunning kruger alert, the display is not the problem. It's the discretization of a continuous signal, which is done for performance reasons, not display reasons. There is nothing stopping games from having a higher internal resolution than their display resolution and you will see your aliasing problems disappear when doing so (because it has nothing to do with the pixel layout, that's retarded)
>>719414843As I said, most of the retards talking in this thread are illiterates who doesn't know jack shit about signal processing and yet spout non-sense opinion like how a CRT doesn't require anti-aliasing. You are wasting your time arguing with those cunts.
>>719414843So a higher internal res means it's not a digital signal anymore?
>>719414843If nothing is stopping them, then what is stopping them? Supersampling already exists, that's not some brilliant take down, obviously there are solutions, but why are none of them being used and which ones are actually feasible. CRT's already have minimal aliasing, and are exponentially less process intensive. Raising resolution is a losing game because displays are chasing it too and given the nature of displays and raster graphics it's an unwinnable race. Read the thread bucko.
>>719415064Yes, it's called Nyquist frequency. And it's the reason you can't see aliasing while reading a 4000dpi comic/manga on your screen.
>>719415041you can immediately tell who the zoomer ipad babies are because they think we're making the shit up about CRT aliasing because they've only ever seen pictures of them.
>>719415145How can nvidia sell you a new GPU every year? And ensure lifetime dependence on them?
>>719408328Yeah, this >>719399172 just looks bad in general on CRT.
>>719414843>There is nothing stopping games from having a higher internal resolutionVery true, I used to run old games at 4x the render resolution, at that point it's no longer called subsampling it becomes supersampling, 100x better than this dlss slopshit, but the performance load is, well, 4x the render resolution.I don't think it would fly in 2025 with nvidia being cheap jews with their vram.
>>719415323Are you back from your Intro to Signal Processing class? If not then don't bother to reply.
>>719415380Wasting your time buddy, the concept of dots per inch is an alien concept to these people.
>>719412369I think this overexaggerated oversimplified drawing can help you understand why rendering isn't a 1:1 visualization of the in-game simulationPart 1 is the raw tree asset, how it really looks within the in-game simulation. You can't directly see that simulation, instead you render it. How? By taking a grid of pixels that are laid over the simulation, the pixels collect information about it, and then they do their best to visually reproduce it.That grid is seen in part 2 of the image. Imagine if every pixel had an infinitely small dot in its very centre. And on whichever color that dot lands, then that color gets blown up to fill the whole pixel. If the dot lands on the color green then the whole pixel will become green. That's the standard method of pixel sampling in computer graphics, oversimplified but mostly correct.But as you can see it's a limited method. Look at the blue pixel in part 2. The dot landed on the color white in that pixel so that whole pixel will become white, but it shouldn't because there's a lot more visual nuance there. Yet the pixel becomes white all the same, so this part of the rendered tree will become inaccurate and warped compared to the raw tree asset.This problem can happen plenty of times in a full image especially if there's a low pixel count, and as you can see in part 4 the end result will be undersampled and inaccurate compared to the original raw asset. Clearly not a 1:1 visualization of the in-game simulation. That's because we're using a really tiny pixel grid in this example just to prove a point, but even with bigger pixel grids (think 1920x1080) this will still happen, especially once you add motion into the mix (massively multiplies this problem). Traditional pixel sampling methods get worse and worse the more subpixel detail you have.Solutions to avoid this? Get a higher res monitor, or simplify the graphics, or develop more advanced rendering techniques.
>>719399551>>719409793Alyx used MSAA in everything and the damn game is smooth
>another poorfag thread that can't run DLAAI'm so tired of it
>>719415513Forgot the drawing, of course.
>>719414626Now turn on the sharpening filter
>>719415513>>719415579You should also mention that by "high res" we mean, a high PPI. It's pointless to get a 4k monitor that's 4x the size of a 1080p monitor.
>>719415579>not mixing the colorsretard
>>719415417If you've already got it all figured out Mr. I took a 101 college course, why is anti-aliasing still the biggest problem in gaming graphics? When you zoom in on a photo on your phone, guess what it does? That's right, it filters it. That's not signal processing dipshit. Pixels are the problem and you are not thinking fundamentally about it enough. Ignore everything you know about video because it does not apply to real time/rasterized graphics.Why does every single fucking graphic designer in existence use Vectors? That's right, because pixels fucking suck and are an approximation of real data, vectors do not exist in rasterized graphics. You are the dunning that is krugering.
>>719415798Holy fuck, please for the love of God pick up a signal processing book.
>>719408596open the image on your phone and tell me what you see dipshit. Hold you phone up next to a CRT 8x the size of your phone. You have never seen a CRT.
>>719415774I said it's an oversimplified example. I'm a retard in paint and I'm not gonna spend another hour in it.
>>719415064It's still digital, but a less coarse approximation>>719415145performance
>>719415914Not an argument, I just curb stomped your retarded condescending assertion and you have nothing. Tell me where I'm wrong or shut the fuck up, you can't articulate why because you don't know what you're talking about.
>>719413732what a fucking useless comparison, there is no ground truth at all.also nice smearing.
>>719415939guess what requires minimal performance overhead and has existed for 127 years?
>>719416048What do you expect? The guy doesn't know jack shit about the "basic" vocabulary of computer graphics. He doesn't specify what resolution you are supposed to use, what's the shape of the cell that is being filled, etcAll he has is a meme pic with 0 contextual information.
>>719413674>great, now show it in motionXESS, FSR2-3, and DLSS2-3 become softened in motion just like TAA. But DLSS4 (and to a lesser degree FSR4) barely lose any detail in motion compared to being still. There still is a slight loss of clarity but like 90% less intense, which is good enough.
>>719399172CRTards really be like throwing a net over their heads and saying this image quality is fire
>>719416229but wait, signal processing. think about it. it processes a signal, a signal that is processed. God I'm such a fucking genius.
>>719401760Half Life Alyxhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNR5EiqA05c
>>719416401>hey go look at the moon>"wow this picture of the moon fucking sucks"this is why you all don't understand what we're talking about.
>>719416401On the actual screen it don't look like that.But it don't "hide the aliasing completely" either.I use a literal television with a HDMI to composite adapter (which will make the MiSTER fags jump on me), and i can see almost all the aliasing of 640x480 3D without AA.
>>719416502Picrel is a page of a book published in 1982. Anti-aliasing was always a thing.
>>719416615>>719416856same guy btw
>>719416942get a good view down the barrel before you pull the trigger.
>>719398809TAA as anti alias ONLY is good.it looks like SSAA when you're stopped, and when it fail, you "just" get the aliasing back.However if you add anything else to the TAA pipeline, it immediately looks like dogshit.
>>719416942Read my entire post, i'm in the "CRT don't solve shit" camp.
>>719416856It's almost as if not all CRTs are the same or something. For me, the difference is most pronounced in things like pre-rendered backgrounds, which look great on CRTs, but like absolute shit on pixel accurate LCDs.
>>719416401Sour grapes
>>719416874yes, I'm well aware, but prior to 2005 and the prominence of LCDs it was not nearly as pervasive. No one is saying that CRTs completely remove aliasing, but that it is far less prevalent. If anything your pic reinforces my point about the nature of pixels and why they should be obfuscated at a hardware level. Maybe you should read one of those fancy books you're always talking about.
>>719409793I was playing Titanfall 2s campaign a few months ago and at 1440p, MSAA isn't particularly useful in that game either even at 8x.
>>719398809dlaa/fsr already solved the AA issue.>b-but by 10 year old gpu can't do that!lol so what? go buy a console if you refuse to upgrade every several years.
>>719417242Pre-rendered backgrounds are anti aliased in most cases.CRTs can get rid of the low resolution if the contrast difference is smoothed or low in general.If you give it high contrast aliased edges, you're getting the saw.
>>719417397>far less prevalent.This is why arguing with retards is pointless. Is "less prevalent" in the room with us? How about you actually provide complete data instead of a meme picture that you don't even understand.
>>719417397On CRTs you could just use a lower resolution and crank up the AA.Bilinear for any non-native resolution and it's consequences been a disaster for mankind.
>>719417529I have no idea what any of that means or its relation to anything I just said. Slow down and breathe, it's gonna be ok.
>>719417315What is this supposed to prove?
>>719406047>deferred which is what most games use these days for the many other benefits that bringsSuch as?
>>719417639Another retard who doesn't know what he is talking about. Everything you typed makes 0 sense.
>>719417662aliasing is when pixels are contrasted and show their naturally sharp square shape. in the bottom image you can see that there aren't any fucking squares.
>>719417767>aliasing is when pixels are contrastedSays who? You realize aliasing happens in every thing related to signals right? Music, Animation, etc Both the CRT and the LCD have aliasing issues.Here's the actual definition:>aliasing is a phenomenon that a reconstructed signal from samples of the original signal contains low frequency components that are not present in the original one
>>719417767wait, wtf? you're telling me that when pixels are diffuse and less sharp and jagged there is less sharp and jaggy aliasing? that makes no sense, what about uh, um signal processing or something?
>>719417746I probably skipped some very important steps.CRTs don't have a fixed resolution, it's just a "shoot a dot at the phosphor really really quickly".If you set it to 640x480, 480 lines will drawn, if you set it to 1600x1200, 1200 lines will be drawn.On LCDs, there's the fixed grid of pixels, so no matter the resolution you pick, it will just try to shove the number of lines you asked into the fixed grid.IDEALLY some fancy digital upscaler or downscaler created by some willing technician should be applied, to try to display the non native resolution as best as possible, like using sharp bilinear.But instead it will just activate regular bilinear and shit smeary shit all over your face.Integer scaling (both the technology and application) do a much better job at it.
>>719417315>uses a 1:1 pixel image mapping to show aliasingAnon this is not aliasing.
>>719418061Are you really one of those guys who think CRTs don't have a resolution limit?
>>719418061There's so much wrong with this post.
>>7193991721. Movies and TV don't need AA2. AA still looks good on CRTs, especially PC monitors because VGA is really sharp
>>719417993I fucking knew you were an "audio guy" dork that went to community college lmao. Now explain ADAC to everybody and why you're a fucking retard for comparing an analog display medium with a digital signal, to a digital display medium with a digital display. "Aliasing" in reference to real time graphics is very specific and situational, and usually is only noticable with highly CONTRASTED thin shapes like power lines in front of sky or fences in front of grass or leaves etc.You quite literally are applying the one irrelevant concept to a medium that is only tangentially related and are missing the entire point of the entire fucking conversation because you are incapable of inferring new information and have never had an original or novel thought in your life.
>>719418197No. i do understand the electronic circuits have limits depending on the model, and personally i had some pretty bad monitors bad in the day, that could not go over 800x600 etc..Also i do understand the dot pitch thing, which i personally seen being horrible when i did set a monitor to "native 320x240" instead of double scanned and looked like razors.
>>719403770It's a temporal solution like TAA but with nvidia's secret sauce.
>>719418395>"audio guy"Close, I am an animation guy. And we also have aliasing issues in animation, why do you think spinning wheels appears to be still or spinning in reverse? Same thing.
>>719414626The texture quality takes a nosedive with any temporal AA I can't stand it either
>>719418454>pretty bad monitors bad in the dayEvery CRT has a limit anon. It has nothing to do with a specific bad piece.
>>719418536ok, this is an important development, we might be able to make progress here.You do realize that animation is deterministic and linear right? Guess what video games definitely are not?
>>719418395There's so much wrong with this post. I am not gonna bother responding anymore until you get your vocabulary straight.
>>719418718You are literally spouting gibberish anon.
Use CS2 for your AA comparison and you'll have a meltdown at how little specular aliasing you get with no AA whatsoever in that game, then ponder about how the fuck do every other studios using unity and unreal have to slap a fullscreen blurfilter to fix their image.
>>719418734durrr AD/DA my fucking bad. You're running because you truly have no idea what the issue is and the solutions we're talking about. How about you go look up how a CRT works while I'm reading about "signal processing" since I've only spent 20 years with resampling.
>>719418061>>719417639I don't see the point you're trying to make.TSR, DLSS, FSR and XeSS exist, they allow you to upscale image to the resolution of your LCD monitor, and they are the discussion subject of this thread.
>>719415798Vectors or their equivalent can exist in the geometric data of a game world. Tessellation uses this concept for example to add an arbitrary number of triangles to render curved surfaces, most notably spheres and cylinders.Rasterization is used because of the limitation of monitors, they require grid data because of the use of pixels. Aliasing comes from using pixels and so AA technologies are ones that are meant to address the limitation of monitors by manipulating the image sent to them to help cancel out these negative effects.By way of analogy AA is like VR. VR needs lenses to work, you can't focus your eyes on screens that close, but lenses also warp what you see. To solve this VR output pre-warps the scene with a shader in such a way thats opposite to what the lenses do, so it looks normal when you use it.Vectors allow continuous data but they're not perfect either, in real life we rarely have a continuously smooth curves. They're not good with noise and fine details. They're good for primitive shapes and not losing geometric detail in them as you scale and transform them. But almost nothing in the real world is like that.
>>719418818Didn't think I'd have to explicitly state that video games don't know what the next frame is going to be without guessing (TAA), but I guess you're so fucking retarded that I have to explain it. Animation knows what the next frame is, him talking about "spinning backwards" has nothing to deal with visual aliasing, that's framerate aliasing which is an entirely different fucking concept and completely irrelevant, which is the ENTIRE source of the misunderstanding.
>>719412368>How does it work?TAA/FSR is like an old school assembly line in a cutlery factory where workers use yesterday's materials to recycle scraps which are used to patch up defects in the cutlery that is now being produced. the end product will never be as good as handmade cutlery, and if there's not enough leftover scraps or materials then it may just be shit. but if you're looking for an efficient large scale cutlery production method and if the assumption is that you have enough leftover scraps, it's effectiveDLSS starts out the same, except near the end of the factory line you add some kind of Skynet robotic overseer whose artificial brain is nothing but 100TB of cutlery information. so before the cutlery rolls out to be shipped into stores, the overseer basically checks every knife and fork to make sure they look the way they're supposed to. this quality control results in much better quality of the cutlery, but comes at the price of needing to buy a robotic overseer and selling your soul out to Skynet
>>719419005>>7194188182) he's applying the broad concept and his limited understanding of "aliasing" to the very specific and very niche case of visual aliasing in rasterized graphics and modern displays.
>>719418836CS2 graphically looks like a game from 2010.It uses graphical technologies from 2010.And it literally can run on 2010 hardware.
>>719419031>comes at the price of needing to buy a robotic overseer I don't understand people who cry about needing to upgrade from their 10 year old gpu as if that's not how pc gaming has always worked. Even consolefags have to upgrade more frequently than once every 10 years.
>>719419213It has too much gay color and fortnite character designs to look like a game from 2010
>>719418536Visual aliasing is a very different problem than what we are discussing, just because you see a word and recognize it does not mean you understand the specific problem and its solutions that we're talking about. Aliasing as a general concept is not what we are talking about.
>>719419541*framerate aliasing
>>719419005>that video games don't know what the next frame is going to beI just remembered how NVidia tried to claim that their new DLSS and Reflex can literally predict the future. I wonder why no one sues them for that kind of marketing bullshit.
>>719398809>SSAA too heavythen you don't deserve AA
>>719398809I just turn on DLSS Quality and be happy playing game
>>719419819just wait for the bullshit they come up with once "quantum" computing and qubits hit the consumer market. "our new QPU takes into account every parallel reality and renders every frame of every possible outcome to achieve a negative latency letting you see frames from the future"
>>719398809TAA plus SMAA looks great together, at least on my 4K screen. It’s easy to inject SMAA into anything with Reshade.
we must return to vector graphics, discrete pixels are a failed experiment.
>>719420562just fix it with signal processing bro, it processes the signal. I just read a book about it and it's completely solved. Turns out we just need more pixels and signals and processing n shit.
They solved it already. It’s called dlss or dlaa if youre autistic and sit 10cm away from your monitor
>>719420795>just a few more pixels broNO I'M CUTTING YOU OFF
>>719419213Fucking idiots missing the point
>>719398809i notice no difference at all when i cycle through the AA modes. at this point i go with taa 8x because higher number means better graphics
>>719398809i use dlss4 in newer gamesgames before 2018 are usually the ones i can bruteforce with ssaathe worst period was fxaa. the way people used to make fun of smaa or taa for just being glorified blur filters? fxaa is literally just a blur filter
>>719419213>>719418836that has nothing to do with graphics and everything to do with art direction, especially when talking about an e-sport game.
>>719419213>And it literally can run on 2010 hardware.no, it cannot. it's extremely unoptimized. it runs like shit even on the best CPU in the world.
>>719421012What's the fucking point, you retard? BRO, YOU CAN MAKE GAMES THAT DON'T REQUIRE ANY AA AT ALL, JUST LOOK AT 2D GAMES. FUCKING LAZY DEVS.
>>719398938Yes it is. About 25% lower framerate on 360. Ridiculous. And doesn't have much effect. Utterly worthless. Quincunx is good though. Blurry AA is good. MLAA 1 was great but cost a lot. FXAA is cheap and effective. TAA is much better for a sightly higher cost. TAA dulls colours and brights though. Worth it usually. Gets rid of shimmering too.MSAA advocates are stupid.Wide tent supersampling was my favourite last I had a PC that could handle it. Mass Effect looked much better, like a move, with it at 8x8.
>>719398809>New AA method when?Honestly just get a better resolution monitor instead.
>>719419213I recall not being able to get a locked 120 Hz with a GTX 1060
>>719422858Stupid.
>>719419213>>719421135>>719421543CS2 uses old school forward rendering so MSAA is actually possible and is a good option for the game. But then it suffers all the trade offs that forward rendering suffers and the benefits that deferred rendering offers. It doesn't really do dynamic lighting or really anything complex. The new CS added their own spin on volumetric smoke and they've focused a lot on improving the netcode, but the game looks like a 10+ year old game, there's almost zero modern rendering happening and no real detail to speak of. because it's an esports game primarily they probably want to focus on clean and simple shapes.It still uses a lot BSP which is more heavy on the CPU for doing visibiity calculations, it's littered with meshes for detail but they're painfully obviously placed meshes that stand out against the static lighting baked into BSP.I love my valve index but other than a peripheral they've done nothing notable in decades at this point. They have literally no reason to put any effort into any major overhauls of the source engine. They're meming with the memedeck and memeos and still trying to win over apple users.
>>719422772On a good engine it's not that expensive Our's PC: i5 12400F, 1660Ti, 16GB 2400MHz DDR4, Windows 10Elias's PC: 7800x3D, 4070Ti, 64GB 6000MHz RAM, Windows 11 (2 years old)MSAA 4X is usually what I settle on
Capcom had a custom FXAAHQ3 that worked quite well with deferred rendering, it was leagues better than the TAA used post MH World
>>719403704left>bloom>anti-soul fog (brown edition)>high polygon models next to low polygon models>low res textures>characters look dead and their wrists broken>terrain is awful>looks like slopright>shades, colour, variety>polygon count looks correct for the imperfect rendering engine>is what your nostalgia says arcade booth rail shooters look likeI imagine if hte PS3 one was a photograph of a screen it might also look better. I feel it's a little disingenuous to photograph screens, partly because you're not actually capturing what the human eye captures.>>719406327>we need high res but small (big) screens!Why do my PS1 and PS2 games look good on my 1920x1080? Especially when I'm hitting 60fps?
>>719423608>FXAAHQ3You must be blind or delusional if you think that anything with FXAA in its name is better than the worst TAA implementation.
>>719423092Wrong. Stop spreadding bullshit.You should have highly effective blurry AA or none at all, no textre filtering.Nothing in between.Wasted performance is visuals degraded. MSAA is waste without ANY reward.Res should be as low as possible too. Vary on screen, only what needs higher res and faster update gets it. The rest blur and motion blur.Even if it were possible to implement without performance cost it would nkt be worth it. It costs programmers time. And they could be doing better things.
>>719423092Bros where's the sparkles and shimmering??? Ancient technology??? ACK~~
>>719423812is this supposed to be an example of it looking good? there's still tons of noticeable aliasing.
>>719423608(2) Theres also CMAA but I only tested it on Yakuza 4-5 Remasters, it was better than FXAA but there was still some aliasing.You wanna get screwed over AA ? Play Valkyria Chronicles 1 on PC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-oxfyOeR8w
fxaa looks fine if you sharpen it
>>719423885Take your glasses off if you want some free antialiasing you fucking nerdDon't inflict fullscreen blur filters on others
>>719423972What is the point of killing performance there's still tons of aliasing anyway? May as well just turn it off.
>>719423953that's what everyone says about taa/dlss/dlaa/fsrbut then you never saw the true image but a mockery of it
>>719423695Their custom FXAA3 was better than TAA any day until phased out for TAA+FXAA.TAA is fucking garbage across the board period. It only worked as intended in few UE4 titles and that was on Epic tweaking it.
>>719423953>fxaa looks fine if you sharpen itWhat does FXAA even do? This is unantialiased at 0% sharpening vs FXAA 100% sharp slider, 1440p.
>>719424260Fucking kek
>>719425013quick blur the entire screen!
>>719424804gets rid of aliasing and shimmering during motion
>>719398964I do this
>>719425134Can you show me in that webm where it gets rid of the aliasing and shimmering?
>>719425085Retard, the whole thread and all of it 270+ posts are about AA, and there is NONE in that screenshot.
>>719413164FSR4 uses AI, retarded dumbfuck.
>>719425450Not that anon but FSR4 uses ML, not DL. Technically both are AI but ML is not magic or black box.
SAAR DO THE NEEDFUL ENABLE TAA ITS DALIT SAAR ALSO UPDATE WINDOWS 11 SAAR
>>719423075BSP in CS2? I don't think so. double check that. afaik the levels are made entirely of meshes and visibility / culling is some other technique, not BSP.
>>719425013>>719423695>REEDEM TAA SAAR USE EPIC ENGINE SAAR
>filter effectsSorry, i only play native. If jaggies are an issue to you go play some gatcha trash, normie. This isnt your hobby
>>719425232 you want me to just repost your webm? it's all over the webm. the first one is the 0 AA one. i can tell cause it has lots of shimmering vs the second one.
>>719404124everything in this list (minus polygon count and raytracing for old as fuck shit) applies to every single consoleCRT is your antialiasing + motion blur
>>719427453nobody said anything about ue. take your meds
>>719399037>>719399050reminder DLAA uses TAA frames as input
>>719427901no, it doesn't DLAA and DLSS use untreated (no AA) frames as input.DLSS and DLAA are themselves a form of TAA.
realized I've been using anti aliasing at 4kgotta turn it AA off right?
>>719427453>a nigger embrassed himself by being a fucking retard>the nigger shits his pants and starts autistically screaching>the nigger suddenly remebrmes there's pajeet meme>the nigger belives he is somehow different from themFuck off, retarded nigger. You're a fucking retard and imbecile, you know nothing about games, and you will never fit in here.
if games let you set the number of previous frames to sample it'd be fine
>>719427901You are probably confusing it with Lumen and raytracing which do require TAA frames. But DLSS specifically needs non-aliased data, otherwise it wouldn't be able to reconstruct shit.
>>719398809>I want extra samples without computing extra samples but I don't want to synthesize more samplesvery interesting but have you considered jumping off a bridge
>>719427345I think only the standard for the maps has changed, the way it's stored to disk, they use .vmf as the format, but internally the data inside the map file for the basic geometry layout and items is still using BSP at runtime for processing visibility, what can be seen and drawn etc. valve have expanded on the original very primitive idea of BSP over time but it's still old and shit. They still bake in a lot of shadows and use a lot of static lighting, everything about source is very hacky, it's newer features just shows the engines age.Maps still have to be these confined areas due to BSP needing to be kept small in size and number, all wide open area stuff is faked with skyboxes and that kinda old rubbish, otherwise fps tanks, it's just awful.Engine use is more or less relegated to modding of their existing products to keep people around, no one is rushing out to try and get a license for their engine. All their work today goes into their own proprietary projects, or in maneuvering to make steam as dominant as possible.There is no HL3 or L4D3 or any other sequels in the works, nor any Portal 3 or any other VR titles for Index. they're just coasting on steams success. It's a shame but it is what it is.
>>719398809You don't need AA
>>719430086Hey Timmy
>>719430610You don't need to shower either.
>>719430086HL3 ("HLX") is certainly in development and I think you're lying about the skyboxes>all wide open area stuff is faked with skyboxesCS2 Anubis is large and open. Basalt also has huge geometry around the main map. both maps are just one huge open area each, no internal separators rendering a skybox or whatever.
>>719399172The term "aliasing" was absolutely huge when the PS2 came out.Every magazine and website was talking about the "jaggies" on early PS2 games and how big a problem it was, complete with detailed screenshots and examples.
>>719428356You don't need extra samples for AA in OP's image.
>>719398809AA is a solved problem DLSS is handles it and even gives you free performance
>>719433240How much you getting paid rajesh?
Thanks to the industry nerds posting in this thread, I think I learned something today about how graphics rendering works.Though if one benefit of deferred rendering is shadows and lighting, things I assume are traditionally considered computationally expensive, then I can't say I've felt the performance benefits in modern games. On the contrary, it feels like optimisation is deprioritised more every year.
>>719433273It's time to upgrade boomer
MSAA would be fine if modern devs didn't fuck up the entire image with their other stupid shit like raytracing with not nearly enough samples so it takes a dozen frames to resolve and looks like shit in motion
>>719434939nopeMSAA is dead and will stay deadthe best way to re-educate and rehabilitate deluded MSAAfags is to send them to AC Unity or the latest Deus Ex gamethose are traditional baked lighting games with no RT and no modern gay shit, and MSAA is completely shit in them. destroys FPS worse than gaytracing does, while doing basically nothing to stabilize the image
>>719434060the switch to doing every effect in pixel shader happened during 7th gen. this is what broke MSAA really. from there you can only revive MSAA by making it really expensive (not worth it) or give MSAA up (what the industry did).as for deferred being about optimization, it was. in the early 2010s. after that it's just been industry standard so the total abandonment of any optimization in the last decade isn't really due to deferred if that's what you suspect. deferred rendering is just one of the staples that we already had before things got so bad. Valve proved with CS2 that a forward rendered game can also run like shit, even in 2023+.
SAAR UE5 IS GOOD!!!!!!UPGRADE YOUR PC SAAR !!!!!!!!
>>719435314Mankind Divided covers the entire screen in a sharpening filter, so god knows what other shit they're doing. MSAA worked perfectly for years, new devs are just doing it wrong. These are people that think TAA is a good idea, they don't give a shit about image quality
>>719400557it works in forza horizon 5. As well as in 4 and 3
>>719401760Forza horizon 5. AC unity is a joke
>>719436747The presence of a sharpening filter does not change how MSAA works.
>>719399551If they gave they removed the reflection normalmap from the gold trim texture this wouldn't be a problem
>>719434060the shadows in modern games often look blurry and noisy too
>>719427836>>719428086>SAAR DO THE NEEDFUL PLAY UNREAL ENGINE GAMES
>ITT: pajeets & zoomers going nuclear over antialiasing
>>719438108What the fuck are you talking about? Why do you keep bringing up ue5?
>>719414626You can't even make out the guy's face any more
>>719419241the complaint isn't about merely having to upgrade a gpu you dishonest fuckwit
>>719415774>>not mixing the colorsThat's texture filtering
>>719438567what is stopping you from using dlaa/fsr?
>>719438732>fake pixels
>>719440139what do you think AA is retard?
>>719438501It's a fucking schizo.
>>719440258>retardsays the guy who doesn't understand MSAA or supersampling
>>719398809>don't even function properly anymoreDeferred rendering still allows MSAA but you have to do it like 6 times instead of once.Not even RTX 5090 can handle 8xMSAA in DX MD
>>719440646NTA, but it's still """"fake"""" pixels. Look at the image in OP. We have white background, and a black line. Where does gray colour come from? Fake shit.And while I'm being ironic, my argument is no more retarded than any argument about fake pixels in DLAA.
>>719441373Both MSAA and supersampling reduce the number of pixels by averaging either edges or the whole image. "Fake" pixels are literally only a thing with upscalers where they have to pull detail out of their ass.
>>719441548>dlaa>upscaler
>>719441548Some other anon already replied, but I want to repeat it as well>dlaa>upscaler
>>719441816>>719441937DLAA is just DLSS but without the upscaling, it still looks like shit.
>>719442049>"Fake" pixels are literally only a thing with upscalers>DLAA is without the upscalingSee? You just agreed you're retarded, and that DLAA has no fake pixels.
>>719403371This reads like a retarded reddit post that very often has no clue what they're talking about. Deferred rendering can be used with MSAA.
>>719442260it canbut that means people need to actually manage their whole rendering pipeline manually, and every game "dev" is just making UE and unity asset flipsthe best AA implementation I've seen is that black magic one durante did in ToCS, what the fuck was that called again?
>>719400327Real gamers prefer the crisp and clean PS1 style
>>719398809Supersampling. Honestly this or no AA.
>>719442529>that black magic one durante did in ToCSNot sure, might be in here somewhere: https://ph3at.github.io/external-posts/
>>719441373MSAA and supersampling don't fake anything, the final resolved pixel is averaged from real rendered subpixels. It's not like AI bullshit that hallucinates the pixels and ends up getting it wrong most of the time (hence the instability and noise)
>>719445034>instability and noisewhen they upscale yes, not when it's just used as AA at native res
>>719445453no, it's shit even then
>>719445593post proof
>>719398809>AAjust get a 4k monitor and turn that shit OFF
>>719398809DLAA exists without DLSS/FSR/whatever. It's just that very few devs include it as an option. The only game in recent memory that I've played (that isn't even new or recent) is Warthunder.Another solution would be this magical thing called "pixel density" which in normalfag speak just means using a higher resolution on a smaller screen.What I find most concerning is that, 10 years ago, people were lauding 4k as the enthusiast quality resolution because you "didn't even need to use antialiasing anymore!" but now people are clammoring to min/max AA anyways and all I can think is "gaming is dead".
>>719398809I use Dynamic Super Resolution as my AAIt looks better than wacky jaggies or the shitty software AA games have todayLast game I can remember having good AA was Tales of Vesperia
>>719398809>don't even function properly anymoreThat only applies to msaa, not ssaaAnyways dlss4 is your best bet
>>719399359Every nvidia card for the last 7 years has dlss. You are spoiled
