Is there a correlation between 6/10 games at best being held in high regard thanks to aesthetically pleasing cover art? At least on /v/. Pic related. See also:FF7ICO (Japanese cover)
>>719519747Whats coming out of his head?
>>719519747Visually an amazing ahead-of-its-time game.But the gameplay and systems are complete ass.I no shit wish this could be remade, but with completely revamped gameplay that's not ass.
>>719519836Hair.
>>719519939Looks retarded
>>719519836
>>719520306Not arguing there.
>>719519838That would be a real shame, the gameplay is excellent. Just needs to be better communicated and maybe some systems that are already worthless removed.It would also greatly benefit from inheriting the Souls style checkpoint system. It would make the game slightly easier, but the shortcuts that are already there become several times more useful if they remain open after you die.
>>719519747Shit taste thread?
>>719519747Vagrant Story is 9/10 though
7/10 bait.
>>719520508>Souls style checkpoint system.Why would it need that? It already has interconnected areas that lead back into the surface town. The game doesnt need to be any easier than it already is.
>>719520696So you don't need to backtrack to the save point just to keep the door open.
>>719520529That's the idea. Whole point of this thread.>>719520668More like 7/10 at best game. Vagrant Spreadsheet fanboy spotted.
>>719519838They would utterly destroy it if it was remade.I know it's heavily flawed but modern square enix would make it even worse if they got their hands on it.
>>719520881Its a minor setback. Vagrant Story becomes somewhat easy in the mid to late game why make it less punishing>>719520953You dont need a guide to beat the game though unless you mean to say all turn based rpgs are spreadsheet games
No one actually plays all of these JRPGS, since they're massive timesinks, so yes, probably.
>>719521320>You dont need a guide to beat the gameI would actually argue against that point.
What is it with Square doing this again and again?
>>719521490But I literally beat it without one. The only thing I didnt figure out on my own was how the analyze spell works which also speaks to how manageable the difficulty is.
>>719521931Fact: The maps suck. The game requires autism to stick with it.
>>719519747>FF7/Vagrant Story>6/10It's not even my favorite FF but fuck off
>>719522004Oops, looks like I struck a nerve. Sorry for hurting your feewings.
>>719521931Don't you start doing no damage after a while for some reason?
>>719522041Tell me a 9/10 game
>>719522082Only if you refuse to switch weapons or cast Herakles.
>>719520508Isn't there a system that increases your expertise if you use a weapon... while decreasing the other weapon's
>>719522193No.
>>719522125Einhander.Gradius Gaiden.The Talos Principle.
>>719521987Maybe thats a skill issue for you, the rooms even have unique names.>>719522082Just change your weapon and cast some buffs and debuffs. The enemy is either strong against the blade type of your weapon or your weapon has bad affinity with their enemy type. That or you didnt repair your weapon and its broken.
>>719520508>but the shortcuts that are already there become several times more useful if they remain open after you die.This 90% of what ruins a lot of these faux "interconnected" games, and is like half of the reason Dark Souls is actually special and intelligently designed.Also retards that say "buh that would make easy!" are fundamental empty headed retards that dont understand difficulty and think its a zero sum game. Dark Souls is harder than Vagrant Story could ever fundamentally be, not just in a raw sense, but in the sense of expecting you to both be mechanically competent rather than strictly strategically (and even this is debatable for Vagrant Story) and yet it has an "easier" checkpoint and shortcut system. See how stupid these words are? If youre still this years old and dont realize the arbitrariness and relativistic nature of difficulty, then you shouldn't be talking about games.
>>719522434Maybe you fail to understand the relativistic nature of difficulty? Vagrant Story isnt an action game and easier than something like Dark Souls so being more punishing (the amount of setback the player suffers upon failure) naturally compensates for it being easier in terms of execution. The game over system fits a game like VS but not Dark Souls, any other system makes it needlessly generous and encourages the player to be sloppy with their plan and strategy which undermines the main way in which the game challenges you.
>>719522193You can train your weapon against specific enemy types, yes, but it's kind of irrelevant. It's one of the things I would just remove, personally. The training dummies mislead people into thinking it's a much more important part of the game than it is. All you need is knowing which weapon type they're weak against. Thrust weapon on enemey weak to thrust is all that matters, the grinding is a waste of time.
>>719522915But the setback isn't inflicted upon failure, it's inflicted upon opening a shortcut. You have to suffer through backtracking before you resume your exploration. Once you die, it's the same result.If you want to argue for more severe setbacks for dying, specifically, then you should argue for the removal of shortcuts, not against the removal of the backtracking from shortcut to save point.
So, did Ashley kill Tia and Marco or were they his actual family?
>>719523441Admittedly I don't know what the actual damage calculations are like, but I always focused on enemy type and I had no real problems dealing damage. There were some I wasn't too good against, like ghosts or the golem, but for the most part it seemed that keeping an eye on the type was the key.
>>719524027I don't think there's an agreed upon best methodology. Multiple methods work when it comes to making weapons good.
>>719523541Its been a while since I played VS so I forgot whether the shortcuts leading out of the dungeon were one-way or not. I dont think it would be an issue either way since exiting the dungeon halfway acts as an opportunity to go back to the blacksmith and upgrade your weapons so you can beat it in one go on your next run through it.
>>719524027Weapon Type > Affinity > Class, in order of importance. The training dummies only increase class. It can help mitigate a weapon that is bad at the other two, but there's nothing stopping you from simply carrying other weapons and switching as necessary.A maxed Class but bad Type weapon will do less damage than a good Type but zero Class weapon. You shouldn't waste a second training that, not worth your time. Not completely useless, but effectively worthless.
>>719524201They go both ways, it's just a "does not open from this side" door usually.
>>719524293Would you happen to know how much each affinity category weighs on damage, out of curiosity?
>>719522004whats ur favorite FF
Ngl, I'm surprised that with how Vagrant Story used to be called a Middle Ages version of Metal Gear and the sheer insanity brought about by MGSV that noone ever made a theory regarding the fact that Vagrant Story's subtitle is 'The Phantom Pain'.
>>719524640Isn't that just based on the opening? I remember it was pretty similar, with the sneaking into a base
>>719524027>>719524109Yeah its possible to rely on enemy type affinity for damage so long as you always have a weapon whose blade type is at least neutral against the enemy youre dealing with.>>719523715Thats ambiguous. I like to think Tia and Marco were his family and were killed by bandits as he remembers. Ashley then becomes a Riskbreaker and kills an innocent family like Rosencrantz recounts but they were unrelated to him and only appear as Tia and Marco in his vision of the event because his mind is filling in the blanks of the memories he repressed with their faces after what Sydney tried to convince him of.
How high does your power level need to be to beat the game under these conditions?
>>719524932Why only spears?
>>719525073>Spears are the only weapon category which includes all Types. There is a low level Piercing/Blunt/Edged option, as well as a high level Piercing/Blunt/Edged option. Spears also preclude the use of shields, which adds a big difficulty spike when enforcing the "250 HP" rule.
>>719524406I don't know exact numbers, but basically think of Affinity like you'd think of elemental buffs in Souls. They're a considerable boost, but not really worth stressing over in terms of weapon loadout other than applying buffs for certain fights. The possible exception is carrying a DIvine weapon for the catacombs, even this is similar with light affinity for undead creatures in Vagrant Story, silver weapons have innate light buffs, the other affinities you can add through crafting or spells depending on your necessity.ALWAYS carry one weapon of each type, that's the most important part. I also liked to carry a crossbow for bats, but they're fairly weak anyway so you may not think it's worth switching for them.In terms of your defense, the only time I felt the need for affinity defense was the final boss, but even then you can negate damage with timed inputs, so you may not need to worry about it at all.Class you can frankly pretend doesn't exist. It won't be the absolute most optimal damage you can deal, but the difference is minute for the effort required.
>>719524731That's quite clever, I hadn't considered the possibility of them both being actual events that happened at different points in time but got smashed together in Ashley's mind. It fits in nicely with him passing out while looking at the bodies, his PTSD from his own loss flaring up
>>719524640I find it closer to Parasite Eve. The MGS comparisons are probably more due to how brilliantly directed the cutscenes are in Vagrant Story, which is something Kojima is known for.They haven't aged a day, in my opinion, still some of the best cutscene direction in the industry.
>>719524932Honestly not sure what kind of weapon loadout could save you from that. Beating the final boss without battle abilities or break arts doesnt sound possible to me (I never tested attack magic on the final boss but your pic forbids it anyway).
>>719524932I assume someone doing this kind of challenge run already played it, but there's a mod that adds challenge to the game too, Zenith:https://vszenith.wordpress.com/Never tried it myself.
>>719525260Yeah, I've come to really like this interpretation because it makes sense for Ashley to repress the memory of his crime when faced with the guilt of having committed the same atrocity he lost his family to in his zeal to symbolically avenge them. Its the same tragedy repeated twice, Ashley being the victim the first time and then the aggressor. He represses this by turning the two events into one so that he only remembers being the victim.
>>719525331Vagrant Story is nothing short of a marvel, really. The camerawork itself is superb, but couple that with the baked lighting and the skill with which the polygon limitations were worked around and it's crazy to think that something as sophisticated and elegant as Vagrant Story exists on PS1. It honestly saddens me to an extent that we couldn't see a less compromised vision on sixth gen given how strong the art direction is.
>>719525840I'll never stop believing in a sequel. I just don't want a remake because I frankly do not see it topping the original in the subtle details. I do NOT want to see this same cutscene but in the outsourced UE5 version.A sequel they can do whatever, hire From or Platinum and let Matsuno lead the team, that would work. I don't even mind if the gameplay is unrecognizable and an action RPG with a stagger bar, just don't defile the original.
>>719525401Wasn't aware people were doing romhacks of VS, I gotta check that out. Are there other noteworthy hacks?
>>719525360It takes a while.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETBekTQ6b9o>>719525401I'm 99% sure this was done on real hardware or at least as real as an OG fat PS3 counts.
>>719526024Just this one, it was in development for so long that the only place you used to get updates on it was GameFAQs back in the day. Just one autist with a vision.
>>719525840I dont even watch movies or tv regularly but when playing VS even I could notice that the cutscenes were directed in a way that just "feels right" and flows naturally vs other 3D video games where most cutscenes are more of an abstraction.>>719525994When I hear about the games development history and how much of the scenario and an entire party system was cut due to time and hardware constraints it actually really makes me want to see a version of the game following that earlier, more ambitious vision. I still think Vagrant Story is amazing as it is but you can see traces of the cut scenario in the supporting and minor characters and traces of the party system the one time Sydney teams up with Ashley.
>>719525994>I do NOT want to see this same cutscene but in the outsourced UE5 versionNow that's a haunting thought. If memory serves Matsuno said over 2/3rds of the original scenario were cut, no? I always wonder about that. Would they be what motivated the idea of making Vagrant Story a trilogy, a way to get the whole story out? Or more character interactions within the confines of the already existing story?
>>719519838Odd i couldnt play it because it made my eyes bleed. Its strange to me that the majority of playstation games that get "remastered" didn't need a graphics overhaul but the ones that could actually benefit from it get ignored
>>719526821To be fair remasters and remakes are usually made because they're safer investments, already well loved titles that are likely to sell well. It's rare that one of these happens because there's a genuine desire to improve on a title
>>719526524My theory is they had greater plans for Merlose, Samantha, Neesa and Tieger before cutting down the scenario. Merlose looks like Ashleys partner on the boxart when the spends most of the game a hostage, which makes me think there was a time when she was freed earlier and joined Ashley as a party member. Samantha shares a strange connection with Ashley when she is able to see through his eyes one time, Neesa and Tiger are very minor antagonists but have this strangely climactic sendoff and the end of the game, which also makes me think all three once had more scenes and development or even begrudgingly cooperated with Ashley against Müllenkamp at some point.
>"I am the reinforcements."Game peaked there. Everything after that was a free-fall.
>>719519747With games (and all of art really) you can either appeal to a small specific niche of people who get it, or you can try to appeal to everyone. The games that try to appeal to everyone are considered 9/10s and 10/10s, but they usually don't commit to anything hard enough to have diehard fans. With a game that goes for niche appeal you have the people who get it remembering it and praising it for the rest of time, and the people who don't get it calling it shit and bringing down the average
>>719527734This is true. A 10/10 piece of art only has the virtue of not offending anyone, which is impressive on its own but doesnt elevate how good it will be at its peak so much as it raises the floor for how much you will enjoy it at its worst. Art that disregards this and aims for its vision without compromise to what would appeal to general audiences is the kind that tends to go down in history.
>>719524482VI
>>719519747cover art? fuck no. all of the bullshit games that you're thinking of all come from the same generation (and are praised by the same generation of people). it was when 3d was new and exciting, and it blew impressionable children's minds. its all ps1 and ESPECIALLY n64 games that fall under the category. the absolute fucking ZEALOTS that defend/praise them make having actual honest discussion about that entire generation of games fucking impossible, because they blindly praise them and reject all criticism. its all so tiresome.
>>719528964I still think cover art ties into it. FF7's cover has a "timeless" vibe to it, but the game itself? 6/10. 6.5/10 at most, and that's being generous. That's exactly why Queer-Penis recreated the cover art with Remake, even.
>>719529102more like 9/10.
I was curious about playing this game, but the in game manual bombards you with tons of shit and idk what is or isnt useful.
>>719529525Everything in there will be useful at some point.
>>719519747Just beat this shit without a guide and only going by the manual. My thoughts:>beautiful art and cutscene direction, was there a lighting engine? if not that's hella impressive>clearly rushed, people who you expect to get a boss fight or rematch don't and some people only show up for like two scenes>absorb magic, absorb damage, raging ache break the game in half, but they're only at full power when you're so low on health that you die in one hit, so I think the tradeoff's fair>actually I stopped doing good damage to enemies a third through the game despite making an effort to build different weapon types and affinities, so probably a good thing that I got raging ache around that time>I never could get analyze to work>fuck snowfly forest>fuck the second lever>most of all fuck that one block puzzle in the temple>final area theme was cool>I had no idea what the fuck was going on, but Sydney was fun to watch fuck around with everyone and I had fun crossbowing/punching everything to death, so I'm happyDefinitely worth a playthrough at least once, even if just for the art and atmosphereSo like did Ashley become the new master of the Dark in the end or what, I thought the whole point was that we were trying to get rid of it because it corrupts mens' souls or whatever
>>719529272There are too many botched "experimental" sections for it to be elevated above 6.5/10 status.
>>719519747playing og ff7 for the first time rn its definitely higher than a 6/10. also the cover art you're most likely thinking of is the USA one, for japs its just the logo.png
>>719530904Yeah, specifically the US version's cover art.Can't agree with it being above 6/10, though. Just too many blemishes. It's average at best. Babby's first RPG. It's the Halo/Goldeneye of JRPGs.
>>719519747why do they have antennae
>>719531342Because it looks cool.
>>719531342To receive signal
>>719532110heh
>>719529102your theory doesnt add up because there are plenty of games with great cover art that nobody gives a shit about, and games that people praise as the pinnacle of human achievement with boring cover art (like just a logo/title or whatever).
>>719526524They bait you several times with city scenarios that never come.
>>719519747You people really come up with the dumbest theories and narratives possible, don't you?
>>719530904There are more annoying attention seeking fags that shit on the game these days more than anything.
>>719534654Prove him wrong.
>>719534795It's as simple as googling it. Plus you know you're full of shit because you said "ummm actually just the japanese version of ico!!" because you know that proves you wrong.
>>719535601>you said "ummm actually just the japanese version of ico!!" because you know that proves you wrong.Japanese cover for ICO is KINO. US cover for it is SLOPPA. The game is shit either way.
