We have the tech to make HD SNES like pixel art games.
>>719548186but where are the scanlines
What I don't get is, why are we still so obsessed with pixels and pixel art? Now we have the technology to create true HD 2D art, to create the kind of image that they were trying to imitate with pixels. Why don't artists try to do that? Imagine how beautiful modern 2D games would look like if people dared to do true HD 2D with all kinds of details and smooth edges.Why is it always pixels?
>>719548186HD pixel art feels weird and I don't like itNever go above 32 bit
>>719548186>the tech to make HD SNES like pixel art games...in theory
>>719548186looks sovless. no thanks.
>>719548419Same reason Disney doesn't make 2D movies anymore. Too expensive and flash tier garbage is good enough.
>>719548186Yeah but making good pixel art is time-consuming and expensive and little kids think it looks worse than 3D graphics so nobody does it anymoreSame reason nobody makes theatrical 2D animated movies anymore
>>719548419Because it's a timeless aesthetic.>2D HDBecause it's expensive as fuck. Why do you think every fighting game has moved to 3D?
What we don't have is the talent and even then big studios won't give a shit about it.>But indieAlmost every indie with amazing pixel art shits the bed and it's because of something retarded>It's a team full of artists so it's only pretty to look at but it's a fucking snoozefest>They have no idea what to do>It's vaporware>Only lasts 1-2 hours because there is only one artist or they just did it as their hobby>It has so many pixels that may as well just go with regular animation/style
>>719548968The majority of people thinks street fighter 4 looks better than sf3But yes it is very expensive
>>719549151That's only because there was such a massive time gap between 3 and 4 that SF fans never got to see what a next-gen sprite-based SF would look like.
>>719548539 Exactly. Studios aren’t going to dump millions into hand-drawn sprites when they can crank out Unity assets and shovel it out for a quick buck. It’s all about ROI now, not art. The bean counters saw that flash-tier visuals sell just fine, especially to mobile zombies and nostalgia-baiters. The era of highly detailed, lovingly crafted 2D animation is dead because it’s not "scalable" for investors.
>>719548186>we have the techBut we don't have the artists LMAO
>>719548186Sauce on the artist? Reminds me of Rayman 1.
>>719548186I'd rather just have hand-drawn assets.
>>719551526That... that is hand drawn...
>>719548551ok john favreau
>>719548419>create true HD 2D artLike what? Please don't say octopath tranny. >>719548539Like why? Is 2D more expensive that 3D?
>>719548551>Same reason nobody makes theatrical 2D animated movies anymoreIt was, unironically, the jews
>>719550418the art is based on Sparkster (SNES), though I get why it made you think of Rayman
>>719553924Retard
>>719548186Looks like it would be a bitch to animate with that level of detail. Even moreso when you add in lighting effects, weapon swaps, and alternate costumes.
>>719554870With 3D you can reuse one model for everything. Hand drawn 2D requires you to draw something from scratch for every frame.
>>719548419Because pixel art is timeless you stupid nigger
>>719548419>Fuckers think creating Pixelart or 2D art is easy and not time consuming, since they are growing up promting to any AI shit they also think is ok
>>719554870Cuphead and Wario Land: Shake it! Things that are in the same resolution as actual animation.
the tech doesn't matterits a matter of gathering the artists and paying them adequately pixel art games with high fidelity don't really sell gangbusters so companies aren't gonna pay the artists as much as other fields, and since they aren't paying as well most artists aren't gonna try to become pixel artists unless they really like it
>>719548419High-res 2D art is insanely expensive and is impossible to do with shortcuts without quality taking a visible hit. Cut a corner and you get dismissed for making cheap flash art.
>>719548186480p standard definition is so much resolution. At that point confining it to pixels is pointless, and it might as well be vectorized to scale to any fidelity 240p is good enough
>>719548419Pixels look better, raster art almost always looks cheap and flat like Flash gamesPixels smooth over the incredulity gap and feel like you're looking into a 3D world through a filter, rather than looking at a flat 2D world of flat 2D cutouts, it's like how 24FPS seems low for movies but 60FPS always looks wrong >>719550418It's Snakepixel, the guy who made Owlboy and is now making Vikings on Trampolines
>>719560324vikings on trampolines always makes me madsuch a good art style and high quality pixel art wasted on such a random piece of shit game
>>719560438True, and it took up so much of their time tooRandom party minigames are the last genre that need super high quality artful visuals, it's a complete waste that won't boost sales a fraction of what it would on a good RPG or Metroidvania
>>719558990Is ch hd2d? It's peak, for sure. Waroo land looks very generic, like bloodstained. Hardly the epitome of graphics, unlike cuphead.>>719556396That so? Seems like many games use a form of skeleton, too. Ff tactics looks like they are all very similiar.
>>719549345So much for AI taking over artist jobs
>>719549151You are retarded if you believe that.
>>719548186Do you have any idea how long it would take to make an entire game that looks like this? It's why these high-res, high density pixel images are always just mock-ups and never anything more.
>>719560731Depends on the game genre, length, smart asset use, and amount of pixel artists reallySNK used to pump out almost Metal Slug tier looking games 1-2 times a year, indie development and pixel artists were just hit with the usual competence crisis
>>719548186Reminds me. I remember playing astlibra and thought the character's walking animation being kinda shit. Then again, maybe I'm spoiled by how remember how smooth the running animation was in VP1.
>>719560640I don't believe shitI'm just stating a fact
>>719548186SNES was never good.
>>719548186>>719560324>>719555703>>719560731this guy is fucking insane at artI checked out his portfolio and youtube and I want to crybeen trying to get good at art for 5 years now and only thing I have to show for it is poopy sketches and shitty copiesGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD fuck
>>719562412Kon Nichi Wa, dood!
>>719562412most likely because you refuse to internalize the fundamentals. Form and perspective nigger, it's math and molding. If you're too retarded to analyze reality the way its actually working then you're too retarded for art.
>>719560631Do you not have eyes you fucking retard?
>>719548186Pixel art turned my 6 month game idea into 3 years, and I'm not even good at pixel art, I'm just an autistic dumbass who tried to make it pixel perfect with no mixels.
>>719560982What's snk and picrel?>>719560982>usual competence crisisIt's astounding how many people won't acknowledge this. CC is real.>>719560731No, I don't have any idea. I'd say it depends on what >>719560982 says
>>719563123You should finish the game, before starting to polish it.
>>719548551>Same reason nobody makes theatrical 2D animated movies anymore3D took over because every corpo jew wanted to chase after Shrek's success. It had nothing to do with 2D as a medium in itself.
>>719562738pyw, nigga.Sure you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?
>>719548419Pixel art just looks better.
>>719548186It's not a matter of tech, it's a matter of a skill that few people have bothered developing.
>>719562412Honestly skill issue, I've been at it for five years as well and I could make something that looks 90% of the way there to a Snakepixel piece given enough time
>>719562612>doodwat nou??
owlboy is the end result of trying to make a sprite art game that looks this nice
>>719548551Oh Mai Sex
>>719565606No it's the result of the pixel artist also thinking he's an equally competent game designer
>>719565606Yeah and Owlboy is all style no substance.
>>719548186But we don't have the talent
>>719565437Pyw.
>>719565606Imagine this art attached to an actual good gameI would probably cream my pants
>>719565758True but we're talking style here, and it rocks in that department.
>>719561702Mode 7 says otherwise, what is your Genesis Blast Processing gonna do about it?
>>719565948Exactly. Owlboy's definitely got the goods in terms of visuals.
>>719566000It's a FLAT map>oooooooooh a backround textureFuck off
I think if Square kept making Final Fantasy on Super Nintendo we would’ve gotten battle scenes that use Mode 7 to its fullest potential >A fan demake of Final Fantasy VII on the SNES with mode 7 graphicshttps://www.deviantart.com/tufsing/art/Final-Fantasy-VII-SNES-3-0-179005792
>>719565437>>719565870>*crickets*yeah that's what I thought, bitch
>>719566000Holy 0 Trips of soul.SNES v Genesis will always be a fun discussion.
>>719563941I finished the game, art and polish is what's taking me years.
>>719565870This is from 2 years ago
>>719548186Yeah
>>719548186>can make PEAK pixel art games>go for cartoonish shit style I fucking hate nugame devs so much it's unreal.
>>719548419I need examples. Cuphead? Hollow Knight? Metal Slug? Street Fighter 3?I wish they returned to extremely animated sprites.
>>719563123Nah that's not autistic at least I think so. Even in the shittiest pixel art mixels are so fucking ugly and offputting. That said it's not like it's a constant effort to avoid using mixels once you get all the technical pixel perfect stuff working at the start of the project, how is that impeding you?t. also stuck on a game for other reasons
>>719548186
>>719548419becasue HD 2D is SE patented shit.
>>719567171Only using the term HD-2D is, you can make a game that looks exactly like Ocotpath if you want. You just can't call it HD-2D.
>>719567271What about 2D HD
>>719567372H double-D
>>719567372That's a good question.
>>719567372HQ-2D.
>>719560438>>719560546lol, umad
>>719548419Pixel art has existed for centuries.
>>719566345Mode 7?>PICRELone guy did that? Fantastic work. Some other guy did ff7 on the nes. Alone.
>>719566281>It's a FLAT mapuoooooooooh ToT
>>719566491Rip in piss
>>719566345I thought Tifa was like melting into a flesh blob for a moment there.
>>719548551KOF 13 was rotoscoped. Theoretically AI should make that cheap and easy these days
>>719566345Wasn't 6 it? Especially when you compare it to previous FF games released on the very same console.
>>719568131People are always oblivious to just how many cheats and roundabouts higher res pixel games use because they don't realize just how fucking long and tedious doing all of it by hand is.
>>719560982SNK went bankrupt from that
>>719568131Even without AI you can make a simple "regular style" background, throw a pixel filter on it, and clean it up so it makes sense and looks good. The "TOO EXPENSIVE" narrative makes no fucking sense given how long people spend on 3d models>hurrdurr but some retard Scandinavian can make a full 3d model in 30 seconds
>>719548551>Same reason nobody makes theatrical 2D animated movies anymore*In the US
>>719560982>>719563870>competency crisisOf course. It's totally that, and not the fact that indie studios often just involve 2-3 devs, and SNK employed more people for the art alone when it came to their games
>>719566947Good game./v/tards will never play it.
>>719566592Hey I remember that image
>>719567842Isn't there supposed to be a cheesehead in somewhere?Is this the dunny kruger effect like fruit in the looms?
>>719568332People always omit this pesky detail kek
>>719567110first impression: looks cool. probably a fun beat-em' up. The colors or shapes or styles of the characters & enemies makes them blend in together. I wonder what it looks like in motion thoughwhat is this? your game in progress?very interested
>>719548551>same reason nobody makes theatrical 2d animated movies anymorei don't think this is true these days, 3dcg has ballooned up in cost to the point where it's more expensive than 2d by magnitudes now, I think the issue is the talent is gone and it's harder to contract it out
>>719568517More to do with no-one buying it and having way too many cooks in the kitchen and less to do with "SO SPENSIVE"
>>719568524Pretty sure that's a mockup anon
>>719568524found it:Battle Axehttps://store.steampowered.com/app/1167300/Battle_Axe/
>>719568668Looks way better in motion, still images make the dorfs blend way too much in with the environment, but their breathing animation helps them stand out a lot
>>719566345It's not terribly difficult to make that style of mode7 battle scene for real (I'm assuming that screenshot is just a mockup). You'd have problems with the sprite scaling though, having to find the extra cart space for 4-8 levels of scaling would be a problem, or you'd have to extend the battle intro animation to give the CPU time to pre-compute them from a hi-res source. Or you use the SA-1 and do realtime sprite scaling. All doable, but at some point you have to ask why you're going to so much effort for an end of life console with dwindling player counts.
>>719560631saying shake it looks generic is hilarious because the graphics are the only thing that game has going for it
>>719568668wizard guy looks fun as fuckman I love fantasy dwarfs
>>719548186It would still require a lot of work. A lot of models are not great at keeping likeness from one pic to the other
>>719568760HD vector art is soulless
>>719548419>why are we still so obsessed with pixels and pixel art? It looks cool>create the kind of image that they were trying to imitate with pixelsRuins the point of playing a video game. You're calling Batman TAS worse than the Nolan movies because it doesn't look like real people.
>>719568524It's a top down run n gun/shooter. Very short one too. It's decent, but it's no pocky and rocky gameplaywise.
>>719568592The talent still exists, but a lot of the issue is more that studios aren't set up for it anymore. 2D animation is its own production pipeline and set of tools, even when working on it digitally, and you can't just switch over. Then yeah, like you touch on, the main reason they're like that is because 3D is easier to contract out or get someone else in general to edit, since it's all rigged 3D models.That's how it is in every "creative" industry these days: there's nothing too complex because that means the person making it is less replaceable, and there's less attention to detail because they're not allowed to stay with it long enough to pay attention. It's all management issues.
>>719568430Coincidentally Top Hunter has 3 artists
>>719568812>>719569216SOULI started this chain of replies largely to criticize that first image, but I ended up getting sucked into this guy's art-- he's pretty darn good at what he does. respect
it's weird that "good" pixel art always looks the same as other "good" pixel art.
>>719548419>why are we still so obsessed with pixels and pixel art?Because less is moreThe impression of something, used properly, is more enticing than the entire ugly thing presented in excruciatingly high detailReality is not the goal, the goal is to create the correct impression, you could use UE5 to render individual hairs on Mario's face, but nobody wants that
>>719560982>SNK used to pump out almost Metal Slug tier looking games 1-2 times a yearSNK went bankrupt multiple times and the dotters who worked on their games were "living" like literal animals in order to get those games finished.Go ask Ikeno how his life was back in the days, now imagine that but X5 worse, that's how bad those SNK dotters had it.
>>719568332>>719569838The point is that you don't have to finish the game in a year, and you don't have to put out 2-3 a year, or torture your artists, the point is that it's doableThe problem is profitability of pixel art games which has never been lower
>>719569824I would hire that man.
>>719569824There are people who want that judging by those MARIO IN UE5 HIRE THIS MAN videos but those people should not and will not ever be listened to.
>>719569824>Because less is moreThis.
I never realized just how bad the art in 20XX looks compared to the sprites in 30XX. I was going to use this as some point of input for the conversation but fuck that's ugly, I think this it was just an art style problem in 20xx, yuck.
>>719548419Something like this?
>>719568430Almost all solos work with freelancers.
>>719571619I have a deep seated hatred of puppet animation. I just hate seeing screenshots that look good, only to watch a video and find it's a series of ugly rotating hinged joints. It gets even worse when it's a "pixel art" style but on a 1080p/4K rendering target so you get mixels and rixels making your puppet animation look even more horrendous.
>>719568760Generic isn't a bad thing per se. >>719568881That's how it's called, eh? Indeed, it always looks and feels soulless.
>>719567842My skinny, Subrosian wife
>>719573709That's extremely well made, especially the fmv looks fantastic. The game itself might be hd vector.
>>719548186You'd get bored of them much like people got bored of mid-90s arcade games and moved to 3D, despite it looking uglier.
>>719573709This only looks good because it's blurred, achieving roughly the same effect as pixel art
>>719559360>rock solid 60 fps>zero latency>perfect motion clarity (because all TVs were CRT at the time)I don't remember that zone though.
>>719548186played owlboy and the controls were assnever cook again
>>719573901I never understood the undying love for VanillaWare because of this exact thing.
>>719573709I hope you can turn off the screen shake. That's going to be annoying for every basic enemy kill.
>>719548419Pixels have a sort of thing where you see it and go "oh that's a video game", which allows one to cut the chaff of worksmanship depending on the sort of project you're making, plus it's arguably easier to just slap some pixels together depending on the animation quality and detail you're going for. HD art is much, MUCH more time consuming to create and work through since you have to create higher resolution assets in general, animating them has to regularly make many animations smooth which requires far more frames just to make sure things connect together well, and a lot more effort put into visual cohesion. The recent Shinobi for example looks pretty good in standstills for some scenes but regularly falls victim to copy-pasted tilesets for basic gameplay platforming, and environments and characters look like cardboard cutout dioramas due to visual limitations with their way of handling all that HD art and the depth involved in presentation.There's no perfect upsides to pixel art either mind you, a game like Owlboy is a testament to the fact that it can take YEARS to make good, high quality pixel art with lavish animations and detail, and at some point artists are effectively stuck between one wall or another on where they want to take these things. But at least with pixel art, limitations come with expectations and it's up to you to raise the bar- Street Fighter II HD tried to put HD art on a game designed with the limitations and animation frames of a pixel arcade fighting game that birthed the full depths of the genre, and it became wonk-looking as shit to have higher quality character assets be inconsistent per frame AND have like 2-3 frames per attack.At the end of it all you also have to realize that high quality art is fucking hard, and making and moving and animating all of it even harder.
>>719578262>Pixels have a sort of thing where you see it and go "oh that's a video gameIndeed. You can create a near perfect illusion.
>>719567110Nothing stands out.
>>719567110This hurts to look at.
>>719548419>What I don't get is, why are we still so obsessed with pixels and pixel art?Because it LOOKS GREAT, you fucking dolt.
>>719548419I dunno. Compare peak 90s SNK to something like Skullgirls which still looks fine, but is clearly a visual downgrade.
>>719579329>>719568668Wow, it's actually kinda cool, that screenshot doesn't make justice to it.
>>719548186>HD pixel artWhy not just make... HD art?
>>719548419HD pixel art is nice but agree that proper 2D hand animated sprites are superior. Sundered boses are so unbelievably sexy. Really hype for Absolum (2D artwork) and Aethermancer (pixel art) personally.
>>719548419if we wanted details we wouldn't want pixel art retard
pixel art makes other art look bad and that's a bad thing
>>719581420Absolum seems woke as fuck.
>>719548186Rocket Knight is based, shame Konami never did much with it.
>>719583542>wokeWhy? You run to the right and punch dudes with 3 other friends. It looks fun. Stop falling for "identity politics" and "culture war" bait. There is no left/right or blue/red. It is just normal people vs the elite/ruling class. Who gives a shit what some faggot does in his bedroom. I'm worried about the asshole stealing my privacy/expression/guns because "muh kids."
>>719583542I'm looking it up for the first time here, and I see nothing to give that impression other than MAYBE fem mc, but we've had enough games over the years where that doesn't mean shit.
>>719548310Where are the onions lines! I cannot tell something is retro unless there are onions lines!
>>719585047There isn't really a main character. You can pick from 4 starting out with more characters you can presumably recruit. I played as the Dwarf but the chick character is pretty cool too. It is Dotemu. They make KINO. He's just baiting.
>>719583924woke faggots are part of the elite/ruling class
>>719573709They captured the 80s-90s cel anime look very well. Must have been inspired by Cuphead.
Honestly, for anime style what Granblue Fantasy Versus did is perfect, too bad that the lights and shadows have to be adjusted manually so making anything more than a 2D fighting game is basically impossible.As per 2D games, I like a LOT the style Lizardcube used for the Wonderboy remake, Streets of Rage IV and Shinobi.
>>719586580So are anti-woke faggots. There is no difference. They just pretend to be different on TV and Twitter. They are all hanging out and abusing children together.
>>719573709This style of graphics doesn't work unless fully baked like Cuphead.
>>719587192There is a huge difference. Woke faggots are educated in the boomer academia that cultivated this mental disease. Woke faggots pride themselves in being elitist and useless but can't express it directly because it makes them look retarded. Opposing garbage like that does not make you like them.Faggot tier argument.
>>719587658And yet Trump put the Project 2025 guy in power to execute his plan. They're the same enemy. You're just too stupid to see the real war.
Counterpoint to pixelfags:
>>719587785Well if the enemy is going to just destroy itself then I can just sit back and enjoy the show.
>>719548186I ACTUAL HD 2D games none that modern stuff called "HD 2D"
Some stuff I've been playing with.Just picked up picoCAD on sale, stoked on learning how to make things on there. Been playing in aseprite a lot lately though.
>>719588107I dunno I'm too scatter brained to focus on one project and my code learning skills are slow, but the art part is fun.
>>719548419Thank you for this bait anon, (you) made a great thread.
>>719588107Nice. Vaguely Metal Slugish.
>>719588228
>>719588285Thanks, I want to use it in a game that's kind of Space Harrier meets Astroneer meets Worms.
>>719548419>What I don't get is, why are we still so obsessed with pixels and pixel art?same reason we're obsessed with old hand drawn animation, it's soulful and kino
>>719588490Not sure how those all fit together, but best of luck with it
>>719587785>schizo ramblinglol kys
>>719548186But we don't have the talent to -make the gameplay innovative in any way-design interesting levels and/or set pieces-compose virtuosic music like in the old gamesor-program controls with sufficient levels of satisfying friction >>7195484191 - Nostalgia2 - With pixel art you can do it well and spend years making it look nice, or you can do it bad on purpose and say "it's retro bro it's meant to look bad" which is what most indie devs do
>>719587907This is the answerPixel art was just how they digitized art for low resolution, HD pixel art is stupid, just use the actual art, you have the resolution
>>719548186Honestly surprised that I don't hear anything about people using AI to make sprite sheets.
Give me the SNES, now!
>>719591638Pic related is pixel art that some redditor made with stable diffusion
>>719591638>>719588315What I did here.
>>719573709looks cute and fun but the screen shake is too much
>>719548419Like Cuphead?
I'd like to see more "2Dified-3D" like Donkey Kong Country/Baldur's Gate/Golden Sun
>>719548186but we have the talent to make
>>719591638I made this.. ugh, october 2023 wtfAI art has probably gotten worse by now
>>719548186>hd>snescan't compute
it's not about tech it's about craftsmanship and discipline. can you sit down and focus on making hundreds of frames for a character to jump, attack, walk around, etc, then do that all over again for each enemy, miniboss, boss, etc? all while keeping the style HD?
