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WOW PS2 HAD RAY TRACING?
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>>719556327
Even pentiums from 1998 had ray tracing...
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>>719556327
RE4 was a Gamecube game, Snoygger.
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>>719556327
Who the hell even use the Mine Thrower?
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>>719558346
re4 is a ps2 game cubie, you trannies almost bankrupt capcom by refusing to purchase mikami's mangum opus
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The technology just isnt there yet...
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>>719556327
>>719557303
Back when devs were white or Japanese and knew how to code
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>>719559019
PS2 got THE shittiest PORT of RE4.

It's 100% Crapcom's and Mikami's fault that they did a shitty business deal with Nintendo in the early 2000s, literally alienating their core fanbase and target audience from the best games in their series.
>>
>>719559225
>no letterboxed
>more weapons
>more customes
>extra campaign
>scarier sound
>not forced to use the abominable shitcube controller
not, still better than the shitcube which is why it doubled the cubie sales and is remembered as a ps2 classic unlike the shitcube which is remembered only for smelee and trannies lol
>>
>>719558781
Kys you piece of shit. Mine Thrower is one of the best guns in the game and only high IQ people know how to use it and when to use it.
>>
Cool it with the anti Indian posting SAAAARRRR.
>>
>>719559334
>less enemies on screen at a time
OH NO NO NO.
I will say I prefer the weapon balance values on the PS2 and Wii versions compared to the GC version.
>>
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is indian the literal worst race on earth?
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>>719559682
> I prefer the weapon balance values on the PS2 and Wii versions compared to the GC version
what? GC version has different weapon status?
>>
>>719556327
>>719557303
That's just the same room duplicated underneath
>>
>>719559831
Yes. The knife was weak as shit. Handguns had less maximum firepower. The kino bolt action rifle maxed out at 18 firepower (making it strictly worse than the semi in almost every way) as opposed to the 30 firepower it can have in all other ports (basically a cheaper magnum with more abundant ammo and can kill Salazar in 8 shots)
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>>719556327
Games in 1995 had it too
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>>719559225
but it had new stuff added to the game.
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>>719559831
The PAL GC version got the stat adjustments like >>719560183 said and that carried forward to all the versions that were released afterwards.
>>
>>719560750
That's just a mirror
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>>719558781
It's like free grenades
>>
>>719560750
>two guns
>reflection only has one
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>>719561265
which you get by the truckload, just wonderful.
>>
>>719561447
Ok but why not MORE grenades? Geneva convention need not apply
>>
>>719560750
Build Engine was SOVL
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>>719556327
>>719557303
>>
>>719556327
qrd on ray tracing? anti aliasing?
>>
>>719559225
which version is the best to play? would it be the newest remaster with the re4 hd restoration mod?
>>
without RTX we could unironically be playing games with disgusting looking graphics and great lightning made by artists at 8k
>lol lmao said the jew
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lost technology pls understand
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>>719564257
The OG Gamecube is since all the other ports fuck with the gameplay in some way.
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>>719556327
DAS RITE!!

WE WUZ DA TRUE RAYTRACERS

PS2 HAD RAYTRACING!

DAS RITE!!!!

DA MAN DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW DIS

real answer: it's precisely the fact that we weren't close to ray-tracing that allowed developers to make mirrors that actually worked. they weren't paid off by nvidia to shill ray-tracing effects.
>>
>>719568146
lul no they don't you dumb faggot
>b-but this heckin knife balance i never once gave a shit about until i read it on a wiki 2 months ago
no one cares
>>
>>719564257
Any release after and including the Wii one has all the content without the reduced enemy counts and pre-rendered cutscenes the PS2 version had. I always just play the PC re-release with re4tweaks nowadays.
>>
>>719568730
The knife balance that was only on the NTSC version when Capcom used to fuck up US releases to spite rentals.
>>
MORE
LIKE
GAY
TRACING
>>
>>719556327
Uhhhhh erm old games did that by rendering le room le twice which you can’t do in modern games despite having gpus hundreds of times more powerful because…uhh… hang on I wrote it down here somewhere…
>>
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wtf, even paintings from 1496 had raytracing???
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>>719556327
>/v/ hates fake frames yet praises fake raytracing
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>>719569678
>AI slop VS hand crafted clever tricks
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>>719569678
You are incorrect, they are mostly linux/adm fags and they hate anything that they don't have or do have but runs extremely shitty. That's why they hate DLSS and RT, because they run way better on Nvidia cards and that makes them mad.
>>
>>719569495
because everything used to be flat you dumbass
nothing is flat anymore today
>>
>>719569938
you gotta dial your baits down, man. if you write something that retarded, no one's gonna fall for it
>>
>>719559951
No, it's a planar reflection.
Cheap technique if you're using forward rendering.
Extremely expensive technique if you're using deferred rendering.
>>
>>719569678
it's literally closer to ground truth than ray-tracing in its current real-time form. if it was ray-tracing it would be noisy, blurry and the geometry reflected would probably not even be a 100% match to the original geometry. for a flat ground planar reflections are superior to ray-tracing. they can give you visually flawless results.

ray-tracing is a method of approximating real light. it's not real photon physics. it's not ground truth, just very close when using infinite samples.
>>
If Ray Tracing had 0 FPS cost, everyone would be calling it the best thing ever. People only get upset because it runs bad on shit GPUs, specially AMD GPUs.
>>
>>719569543
Those are clearly screen space reflections, retard
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>>719570318
>he doesn't know you can ray-trace in screen space
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>>719569938
another episode of a retard talking out of his ass
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>>719570318
alright then explain this, smart guy
>>
Not ray tracing.
That's clearly a second room where they curved the walls and ceiling and made NPCs that match the first room's movements.
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>>719571001
>That's why they hate DLSS and RT, because they run way better on Nvidia cards and that makes them mad.
thanks for proving my point retard.
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>>719570017
Oh shit, I forgot flat reflective surfaces stopped existing circa 2004, my mistake
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It's time to stop.
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>>719571459
raytracing works on linux. you have no point. you have no brain.
>>
>>719571052
Did people really look this goofy back then?
>>
>>719571890
I never said it didn’t. Learn some english ranjeet.
>>
>>719571507
Is that from the new alan woke?
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>>719556327
The PS2 version of RE4 was such dogshit. Who would enjoy something like that?
>>
>>719571979
yes you did you said we hate everything we dont have but we do have raytracing so get fucked retard.
>>
>>719559951
>how to tell everyone you never played unreal
>>
>>719569678
If the frames aren't coming from the game engine, they're fake.
>>
>>719571951
they were just pretending to look goofy
>>
>>719556327
>>719557303
This looks much better than the blurry laggy mess that is ray tracing
>>
>>719559334
eric
you weren't born during the gamecube/ps2 albeit
>>
>>719559334
>worse graphics
>worse performance
>less enemies
>MP4 cutscenes with crazy loading times
>>
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>>719564257
Any of the Ultimate HD ports, since they're based on the Wii port, which has GC graphics and cutscenes + all extras of PS2 version and beyond.
>>
>>719571001
130 FPS is pretty go-
>1080P
lol
>FSR/DLSS
LOL
>>
>>719559334
>>scarier sound
holy shit, this is the ultimate copium lmao
>>
>>719559138
Forget the mirror. I think the right looks more realistic than the left image.
>>
>>719575473
>irrelevant shit no one cares about
go watch a dvd if you care about graphics cubie
oh wait u can’t lol
>>719576657
it’s true. just playing on re4 on a faggot purple hrtcube is enough to kill the immersion. no wonder it flopped there
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>consoles are so shit now that consoletards revert their consolewars back to the early 2000s
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>>719576773
>it’s true.
it's the same sounds but lower bitrate you goofball
>>
>>719576773
eric
seek mental help
>>
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>>719575965
>>
>>719563864
Just retard /v/ being retard /v/ for the nth time reposting a thread where even basic bitch cube mapping is called "ray tracing".
>>
>>719560750
I used to fuck around with the build engine in DN3Dbuilder, you had to copypaste entire rooms to make a reflection, i wonder that they did in Shadow Warrior to make a transparent door but must have been something similar as it only works one way.
>>
>>719570159
why don't we design an algorithm that's like real photon physics using each pixel on screen?
>>
Ps1 can do raytracing too
>>719559225
Why does the gamecube one look so green?
>>
>>719564257
PC with the HD mod. Anyone telling you otherwise is a retarded tendie who should never ever be listened to about games.
>>
>>719575632
Which room is that?
>>
>>719556327
>ITT sub 80IQ people thinking reflections are raytracing
>>
>>719577369
Here comes the 65 IQ genius showing off how unaware he is of the joke.
>>
>>719576787
Consoles have no exclusives, there's nothing to fight for. Wrong thread doe, this is about TECHNOLOGY
>>
>>719559951
im pretty sure its ray tracing dude
>>
>>719556327
I hate knowing how games work. I hate knowing this is just the same room mirrored 1:1 upside down and the floor is semi-transparent to make it "look" like it's reflecting.
>>
>>719559138
old games did reflections, shininess and lighting much better than modern raytraced slop that cuts your framerate in half and needs AI fake pixels to generate fake frames to make up for it. The graphics industry is in a competency crisis
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>>719557303
What fucking game holy moly
>>
Technology has regressed so much
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>>719577109
>Why does the gamecube one look so green?
It's not.
And you're asking the wrong question.

You know why PS2 one is so RED and BROWN?

Because the devs had to DOWNGRADE most textures into 4 or even to 2-bit colors to make 'em run on Piss2, and then used vertex colors and scene lighting to dye them.

>>719577272
One of the corridors leading to the Labs where Regenerators appear.
>>
>>719578016
>One of the corridors leading to the Labs where Regenerators appear.
Huh. I just replayed it and your screencap didn't look familiar.
>>
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>>719577881
Unreal
>>
>>719578016
Sounds like NIntendron3 propaganda to me. The PS2 had the best looking games.
>>
this is not raytracing. Its a mirrored level transposed under a opaque surface to look like reflections. It was possible back then because low polygon counts. Try this today on cyberpunk and mirror the chunk youre standing in and enjoy the 3fps with a 5090
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Ps2 didn’t even have anti aliasing..
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>>719558781
You know whats weird is I always forget that exists in resident evil 4. I’ve beaten the game like 10 times but I’ve never used it except for once or twice to mess around and every time I just turn the game off to undue the purchase and get something else. Just takes up space in your inventory and doesnt have enough ammo.
>>
>>719559019
Capcom has almost bankrupted themselves by making bad game for the last decade+ one of the last good games they have made was dead rising 1 and lost planet 1 look where those franchises ended up?
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>>719578016
No it's literally more green, earthy textures are supposed to be browns and oranges and red not snot green. It's due to the texture compression on cube. Everything on the console suffers from a green push due to their implementation of S3TC. PS2's paletted textures allow for no compression of textures. Since you seem to be highly offended just know I'm not looking to attack you or your favorite console only to explain why GC games look the way they do.

You can learn more about it here:
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles/reviews3tcfxt1/
>>
>>719559225
Ps2 had good games on it but it was thr NPC console of that generation and I also consider the apple game store of that generation with the astronomical amount of low quality shovelware titles it had. In order to find anything good tou needed to sort through exponentially more bad shit tier games to find the good ones. Still had a lot of good ones but I cant imagine the amount of people who got burned buying low quality crap that got churned out for that console. And any game I bought that I enjoyed for the ps2 I always knew would have looked way better on the Xbox or GameCube.
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>>719579942
Nope. PS2 was literally the weakest console of its generation, with some notable hardware shortcomings.

Meanwhile, GC had IBM processor and Ati Radeon GPU, capable of some pretty neat for the time pixel shader and screen filter effects.

>>719580497
I think you got some problem with your screen calibration. Or you're taking a 18 years old JPEG's colors with face value.
Also, you clearly haven't been to European forest.

>Since you seem to be highly offended
I am not. Make no mistake about that.
Simply delivering the same data we already went through nearly two decades ago, and literally got some very detailed information from the DEVS themselves back in 2005, when the port was being worked on.

The bottom line is: most textures had to be not only down-sized and sampled the fuck out for the PS2, but also essentially turned into grayscale, removing a lot of the hues the GC original had.
>>
>>719580805
>PS2 was literally the weakest console of its generation, with some notable hardware shortcomings.

nta Isn't this pretty well known? The Xbox and Gamecube were pretty powerful consoles for their time.
>>
>>719557303
first unreal had a campaign?
>>
>>719580978
Yes, it was pretty good too.
>>
>>719580953
>nta Isn't this pretty well known?
Not at all.
Two decades of PS offering arguably the strongest hardware and Nintendo the weakest has warped the late-zoom zooms' and GenA toddler's perception of the power balance.

PS2 being the best selling gaming system for many many years also seems to play a big part in the head-narrative. iPhone folks generally don't study specs too often.
>>
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>>719580805
Has nothing to do with the screen type (although certain color temperatures will exaggerate the tint.) GC's texture compression is largely a good thing, however the greenish colors across all surfaces due to the compression is a reality for the console. RE4 is no exception.
>>
>>719580978
First Unreal IS a single-player campaign.
>>
>>719568146
I enjoyed the Wii version a lot and it’s one of the only reasons I would consider owning a Wii. I understand that people say that it makes the game easier aiming with the wiimote, but it had some of the appeal of an arcade game where you physically interact with the game which I appreciated and enjoyed a lot. I never bought a Kinect or anything because all of those games were dogshit but for some reason re4 on Wii “just worked”.
>>
>>719564257
If you want the original experience at it's best the gamecube version, if you want extra content the ps2 version, other than that the ultimate hd edition with the fan remaster is the best overall option
>>
Why did we ever move to deferred rendering? Anyone know?

I haven't seen a single benefit from this shift in graphics programming. Games from 2000s-2010s look way better than most of the shit we get today.
>>
>>719581103
It kinda sucks. Music is good at least.
>>
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so much for gaytracing, physx was a much more impressive effect even today and nvidia is not using this shit in games anymore
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>>719564257
PC with mods obviously.
>>
>>719556327
The incompetent clique where you need to be a cocksucker to become a gamedev leads to the total regression in the industry.
>>
>>719556327
Why is the re4hd site invisible in google search?
>>
>>719581271
Shader centric graphics, deferred renderers allow for things like more light sources, creates more control for different types of artists (environment, atmospheric, lighting, etc.) Forward rendering has its strengths but as game development grew and more people became involved and technology developed the way games were rasterized had to be changed. Deferred *is* why mirrors disappeared from so many games. It became extremely difficult to set up environments that would run well and look correct. Lots of the old "cheats" forward rendering allowed no longer worked.
>>
>>719581164
>>719580805
I'm reading the specs and it just can't be that the GC is more powerful than the PS2. PS2 has more shaders and like 40x more bandwidth. RE4 is just a bad port. PS2 had the best looking games.
>>
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>>719581271
>Why did we ever move to deferred rendering? Anyone know?
Simple:
it enabled crazy amounts of dynamic lights, shadows, and other fancy pixel-shader effects to be rendered in real time, with a tiny, tiny fraction of the cost compared to Forward Rendering's counterpart.
I was an intern at this local game studio back in 2010, when Unity implemented deferred rendering with the release of version 3. The performance boost was INSANE. The 7th gen consoles already struggled with 720p in most games, so any extra frames was welcomed with open arms.

Games like STALKER SoC actually implemented a DX9 deferred rendering mode already back in 2007, and it's still an amazing looking game for its time. The indoor areas are borderline photorealistic at times, with the heavy use of steep bump maps making things look very "3D", while outside the mood is very dream-like atmospheric, with every light source casting shadows out of everything, on top of everything.

Yes, Deferred Rendering did bring a pack of its own issues, such as essentially breaking the Multi-sampling Anti-aliasing and simple transparency effects (both which have been solved years ago, BTW), and there would be the choice of using the Forward+ implementations that provide best of both worlds...
but sadly, deferred became the standard, and standards are slooow to change.

Funfact: even UE5 allows switching to fully Forward Rendered mode, and the performance boost on modern HW is insane.
>>
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Old games don't have real mirrors. It's just another room where outsourced chinese NPCs are hiding and perfectly mimicking your movements.
>>
>>719564257
Oculus Quest 2
>>
>>719570057
What benefits has deferred rendering gotten us? Seems like a lot of bullshit we have to put up with over it.
>>
>>719581796
>both which have been solved years ago, BTW
how? and why aren't the solutions implemented?
>>
>>719581751
>PS2 has more shaders
It doesn't.
That's the whole thing: all the special effects people take for granted had to be hard-coded or faked on PS2. Meanwhile, Xbox and GC literally allowed D3D / OGL pixel shaders to be used, from Normalmapping to planar textures.

>PS2 had the best looking games.
PS2 always had the worst looking multiplats, and generally had the most aged looks of the bunch. Compare Max Payne 1-2 on PS2 to Xbox, or any FPS to Halo 2.
Hell, Xbox OG even had Doom 3 and Half-Life 2.

No, this does not mean that PS2 would not had great looking games.
But all of them were meticulously hand-crafted, and often small in scale.
>>
>>719559019
>you trannies almost bankrupt capcom by refusing to purchase mikami's mangum opus
Mikami was a retard for moving to a console that most of the fanbase of his series didn't have
>>
>>719578016
>2bit colors
lel
>>
>>719581819
>devs are now so lazy they can't even bother copy pasting rooms and have to rely on Nvidia scams to do it for them

It's all so tiresome.
>>
>>719582060
PS2 could brute force all effects Nintendo had a fixed pipeline for, and Microsoft had early shader models for. They even made render farm hardware explicitly for this purpose. I always enjoyed the visuals in the Sam Raimi Spider-Man films.
>PS2 always had the worst looking multiplats
Incorrect. It varies from game to game, but most games are worst on GC. Not sure why exactly, but it doesn't paint a positive picture of it.

GC was a very limited console. It had a fix function TEV pipeline which made it very difficult to achieve certain effects, while others would be trivial. It had to be something available in that library, if you wanted to do something that wasn't supported you're doing it in software and running things in software on the Cube is slower than any of its contemporaries.
>>
>>719582060
The PS2 is just more powerful. It actually looks like the PS2 is a full generation ahead.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/gamecube-gpu.c1918
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/playstation-2-gpu-250nm.c3702
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>>719574432
>>719576876
Eric's a cubie and loves the ericube I'm afraid
>>
>>719559138
AW2 has reflection up the ass, this is lower settings
you cunt
>>
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>>719582475
You wouldn't start seeing particle effect displays like this for another two console generations with the advent of GPU particles.

PS2 however does it at 60fps.
>>
>>719556327
WOW YOU'RE POOR?
>>
>>719577057
1. we can't even afford ray-tracing 1spp yet really
2. we don't actually know how photons work down to the last quantum wave whatever the fuck detail so if you attempted this with existing physics knowledge there's a good chance you would get it wrong any way.
>>
>>719581986
>how? and why aren't the solutions implemented?
MSAA you could already force on Def.Renderer games on DX10 hardware, through Nvidia control panel.
The main reason people still didn't implement it was because of the quite significant performance hit, further exaggerated by the constantly increasing playing resolutions and polycount of models.

MSAA also by default couldn't touch the NEW visual artifacts, such as shader noise, shimmering and texture jaggies. Thus, the focus shifted to the Post-Processing AA methods (FXAA, TAA...), that quickly process the entire already rendered image, nuking most if not all jaggies and dither with a single, fast pass.

Transparency can be implemented exactly the same way as it was done years prior:
Handle it on a separated pass. It can actually be more performant than on Forward renderer, as you can limit the secondary rendering to only those assets that need it. You can also down-sample, simplify and otherwise process the image "behind" the smoother transparency.

But again, all these can co-exist with smart design.
See : Any CroEngine 3-4 game, Source 2, Frostbite engine.

>>719581905
See : >>719581796
Many games simply would not run as well, or would not look quite as good out of the box without Deferred Rendering, and / or hybrid solutions.

But we are in a curious moment in time where the simple artistic choices and optimizations the older Forward Rendering games demanded make them not only visually more pleasing (more stable image, less filters and shit), while also running far superior to the contemporaries.

Going from the last hurrah of Forward Rendering games with Yakuza 0 and Kiwami 1, to the SEGA's first real Def.Rend. clusterfuck with Dragon Engine, is a great example of this.
>>
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>>719560750
What's the best source port for SW these days? There used to be several and I've forgotten all of them
>>
none of you actually know anything about graphics so why do you bother arguing about graphics (or more accurately, marketing phrases)?
>>
>>719583028
SWP
>>
>>719582657
That's actually insane. We got that with the PS4 and UE got it with UE4. I remember the hype around particles. I remember.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD9CPqSKjTU
>>
>>719556327
>>719557303
>>719559138
>>719560750
>>719563510
>>719565310
sars kindly stop redeeming the xenophobia india is growing super power and will of the enable technology of reflection once chatting gpt reach version six please
>>
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>>719581452
Mind if I autistically add in the names of the last two games to that picture?
>>
>>719577040
>had to copypaste entire rooms to make a reflection,
No you did not. You just needed an EMPTY SPACE to PROJECT an actual reflection.
>>
aack
>>
>>719583335
You sure? I looked around a bit and it seems like Raze and VoidSW might be the best
>>
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>>719568146
lmao red9let seething
>>
>>719583568
its not even my picture, i always wondered why the guy never added the other names
>>
>>719581209
That picture is fucking dumb. S3TC lost out because they still charge licensing fees for it long after S3 Graphics died.
>>
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>>719556327
Even the N64 had raytracing!!
>>
>>719559138
What was the horseshit excuse they gave for not doing mirrors in modern games again?
>>
>>719582657
I bet that sort of throughput is a major reason why every port of silent hill 2 sucks balls visually, That fog must've fucking devoured bandwidth in most hardware.
>>
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>>719584332
>>
>>719556327
Why was this kind of tech lost to time? Maybe the scale of games is too massive to simply render them twice?
>>
>>719577369
the whole point is they can be done without raytracing (and at 500 times the framerate) retard
>>
>>719581905
>What benefits has deferred rendering gotten us?
Having more than 4 light sources are a hard limitation to start, nodev
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>>719559753
It's pretty bad. You could argue Abbos are worse, but the problem with indians is that there's so goddamn many of them.
I've thought about it, and the world would be 100% better if all Indians were deleted. We would lose nothing if they were to all disappear.

You know how YouTube and Google keep pushing for the removal of ad blockers? That's because it costs so damn much to maintain their server farms that they keep having to build to support the endless amount of slop Indians upload to their servers.
>>
>>719585696
clustered forward
>>
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I like the OG RE4 and the remake.
>>
>>719586054
WOAH SP2 HDA ADM D3 CVAHCE??????
>>
>>719582642
Max Payne has reflections regardless of graphics quality.
>>
>>719580497
>george floyd dithering
>>
>>719585387
It's mostly to do with post-processing and various modern rendering techniques that makes mirrors particularly difficult to implement. And since AAA studios don't value the sort of details that can't be used in marketing materials, they basically just gave up even trying
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>>719586335
>>719580497
>George Floyd-Steinberg
>>
>>719585696
>le Unreal arbitrary limit of 4 lights
>we need deferred
another lie from Tim Sweeney and his cronies.
>>
There's such a small amount of games that requires full on dynamic light + global illumnation bullshit.
Most game would be much better off with baked lights + light probes and a few dynamic light per scenes, not only in sharpness for the final image but for the FPS boost.
>>
>>719585905
strewth calm down bruce.
>>
>>719571951
Rich people inbred so yeah, the rich ones did.
>>
>>719586054
how
>>
>>719587951
They consorted with the devils
Do not follow their path
>>
>>719582808
Wonderful read, thank you for writing this. What I don't understand is why choose temporal methods for AA? Many games have incredibly "dense" scenes, insane poly counts, texture resolutions among other things, it's a lot to go over. Though we have strayed away from the arena shooter/linear maps in favour of open worlds, I don't get why many things can't be baked, we don't have games with insane environment destruction and many moving lights which would be a problem since they are realtime.
>>
>>719581223
i had a lot of fun blasting bots on that ice map with the church
>>
>>719571951
bro you're looking that goofy right now
>>
>>719560750
Shadow Warrior came out in '97.
>>
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>>719556327
yes it did
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>>719581340
Nah it was good.
>>
>>719582359
I've noticed that some special effects tend to be entirely missing when it comes to gamecube ports, one of the true crime games comes to mind
>>
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This thread getting made constantly doesn't give normal people a good impression of poors.
>>
>>719588265
nta but the fundamental problem is how do you get subpixel data? aliasing is caused by a lack of subpixel data.

you can either render more than one sample per pixel like MSAA did (doesn't cover pixel shader aliasing), or like SSAA would (flawless but too expensive) or you can collect samples over time (TAA). out of these three options SSAA is immediately disqualified because it will never be cheap enough for anything but emulators and "retro" looking titles. so MSAA is really our only hope to get rid of TAA.
a roided up MSAA that's closer to SSAA in results would also cost more, and we saw this in some attempts to bring MSAA into deferred rendering in the early 2010s. this route was tried and simply did not pan out. as far as the mainstream of the industry is concerned this was the death of MSAA. it's what convinced the big studios, engine makers and GPU manufacturers that TAA was inevitable.

the only alternative the "rebels" can put any hope in are better ways to PREVENT aliasing in the pixel shader, so basically the idea of making each shader effect a little more costly but getting the aliasing down to a level where either a non-aggressive post-AA can deal with the rest or you don't need any post-AA at all. freeing ourselves from the TAA menace is an unsolved problem that few studios are looking into. the latest setback for a future without TAA was the failure of VR. in a world where VR succeeded lots of devs would be working on this problem and it would be solved by now.
>>
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>>719586054
i miss stencil shadows so fucking much
>>
>>719585532
but it can't, you brain dead monkey raytracing gives you realistic lighting reflections are just one part of what it can offer
>>
So what is ray tracing and why is it preferred over the 2 room thing?
>>
>>719559753
I mean... there's Brazil so no. But almost.
>>
>>719590753
forced "innovation" and an excuse for higher ups to make devs skip adding actual atmosphere to their game by just having them slap rt on
>>
>>719556327
nortubel 2 needs raytracing
>>
>>719589265
Both of the True Crime games are bad for it. LA just looks like a flat shaded game it's kind of wild. NY is possibly the worst port of the generation. It's as bad as the gamecube kids pretend RE4 is on PS2, but it's actually that bad.
>>
>>719564257
i emulate the wii version because it's piss easy to do so
>>
>>719585905
It's not just youtube and google, they use up so much AI the US power infrastructure can't cope with the load of jeets and other third worlders genning trillions of blonde bimbo BBC cuck porn for them. My state is thinking of opening up the nuclear plant that nearly had it's own Chernobyl event
>>
>>719577441
you retards are just unaware of what raytracing is its made for realistic lighting saying reflections = raytracing even jokingly shows you have no clue what your talking about
>>
>>719564257
Currently available PC version is good and can be modded with hd textures and shit. The Wii version is also fun and works VERY well with the wiimote
>>
>>719591272
>Think of how much you're hurting nvidia's share prices when you say PS2 does RTX
kek I do
>>
>>719589908
A lot of people argue that the best-case scenario would be to run games natively at 4K with no need for AA at all. Frame gen technologies constantly seem to be pushed and maybe their inclination is not without merit, only time will tell. Thanks for your insight.
>>
>>719590753
the 2 room thing is not really practicable for more than the stereotypical bathroom gimmick scene.

planar reflections aka the two camera thing is the real solution, but it only works for one or maybe two flat surfaces at a time before it becomes way too expensive. basically what Portal does, except for a mirror instead of a portal. same fundamental idea.

raytracing is simulating light, but backwards, so you send rays out of the camera and see what they hit. depending on the result you then send more rays out from that thing you hit, or if you hit nothing you draw the skybox. for one or four pixels on screen you'll send out one ray typically, but that one ray can then split into a bunch of rays depending on what you hit and which effects you want. RT is always super expensive and for it to actually not look like shit it needs to be even more expensive. most games with RT effects now are kind of "fake RT" because they still have for example traditional shadowmaps and only the reflections are ray-traced. so the bounced ray from your mirror or water surface goes on to hit some building and rather than doing more ray-tracing from there to find out if it's in shadow for example you just read from the shadowmap. you can call this hybrid ray-tracing. when a game doesn't cut corners in this manner it's called path-tracing and it's too expensive to run on the best PC in the world, see Cyberpunk 2077 copers relying on fake frames to pretend it's playable.
>>
>>719591335
>I'm hurting Nvidia
>they're not dominating the GPU industry
>AMD is winning
>upgrade from your 3 year old 4090 to a 9070XT today
>saar
>>
>>719577109
>sharper in every way
>retard "HURR Y IS It GREENZ?"
>>
>>719591628
It's so green. They should call it the green cube, heh.
>>
>>719591414
>run games natively at 4K with no need for AA at all
this simply isn't true. native 4K is the equivalent of 1080p with 4 samples per pixel. even in old games where MSAA works flawlessly 4x is not enough to get a clean image when gaming on a 1080p monitor. the idea that you don't need AA at 4K just isn't true.

>Frame gen
an even worse emperor's new clothes than TAA. frame gen inherently increases input lag so it makes games feel worse. it only looks smoother to somebody who is NOT INTERACTING WITH THE GAME. the actual player of a game will have a better experience with framegen off. no exceptions. there is no way around this. in order to interpolate between frame A and frame B both frames need to already be rendered, yet you're holding them back from being displayed as early as they could be. this is a priori fact, cannot be argued with, cannot be solved by any technology. frame gen is 100% a marketing gimmick and will never be anything else.
>>
>>719591510
I dunno man, metro exodus EE does breddy gud and runs pretty well considering that version effectively ditches the old raster lighting from the game entirely.
>>
>>719582359
>Not sure why exactly, but it doesn't paint a positive picture of it.
cache and disc space, cube has the power but not the spacing. So obviously something made for it like RE4 comes across better than on ps2 compared to true mutiplats made for everyone
>>
>>
>>719591903
Crash 4 fit on a CD however
>>
>>719591102
I’ve heard the original GameCube version has different difficulty balancing that every other version
>>
>>719559334
/thread
thanks for beta testing, tendies
>>
it's funny how psniggers are trying to consolefag with the dvd player that couldn't even play monkey ball at 60, get outta here
>>
>>719592081
What framerate did the Gamecube play Kingdom Hearts at?
>>
>>719592081
>heh you can't play piglets ballpit adventure heh we win snoys
oookay
>>
>>719592081
PS2 had the highest amount of game running at 60 fps during the 6th generation
Forza is at 30 fps while GT4 is at 60 fps and looks better
>>
>>719591812
good point. Metro Exodus takes advantage of a special case: indirect lighting usually doesn't change much between frames so it can be accumulated over multiple frames. in fact it can be accumulated "forever", leading to effectively infinite samples and therefore flawless quality once the camera has been in the same location for long enough. the only downside of this approach becomes obvious if you open or close a door or turn a lamp on or off. the indirect lighting lags behind the direct lighting. how badly depends on how many samples per second are invested, something the devs have full control over, so it's an extremely scalable effect.
by the way, the GI in Metro accumulates its data in world space probes or maps of some sort. it does NOT rely on TAA screenspace shit like Unreal Lumen. so it doesn't suffer ghosting artifacts when you wave a gun across the screen while a door opens for example.

unfortunately no other aspect of lighting has this potential to be staggered over time. with shadows and reflections it's always immediately obvious if try to use fewer samples and accumulate over multiple frames.
>>
>>719592081
Reminder the shitcube locked shitshine at 30fps when every platformer on ps2 is 60
Reminder the shitcube couldn't run Crash at 60fps
Reminder the shitcube is too weak to run Burnout 3 lol
>>
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>>719591335
can you show us on this teddy where nvidia touched you?
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>>719592617
Right here.
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>>719592478
damn. and you know criterion weren't shilling for the PS2 because they made the Xbox version look way better.
>>
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>>719590313
Those never existed, stop lying
>>
>>719592668
The PS2 version actually looks a little better.
>>
>>719592882
you're blind, buddy. the reflections alone are so much better on Xbox it's not even funny.
>>
>>719592701
>it's totes organic how I post the same shit every time this thread gets made (by me)
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/image/fvf9G_Mnn_kjue0naeQOHg/
>>
>>719592323
Somewhat related - particularly for metro - is that I bet HDR really can do wonders when combined with RT. Not just for lmao peak brightness but having more gradual roll off in luminance in shadows and the like. Or for something like cyberpunk to have those fancy reflections be bright when applicable.
>>
>>719569678
Fake raytracing doesn't kill real framerates.
>>
>>719590649
>but it can't
except the countless games that did
>realistic lighting
we had realistic lighting in HL2 21 years ago just bake it niggers
>what it can offer
shekels for them and stutter for players
>>
>>719592952
The effects are all a little better on PS2. Xbox has a more uniform look, but PS2 juuust barely clears it.
>>
>>719593041
Show me a curved surface reflecting properly without ray tracing.
>>
>>719593041
i knew you were retarded, thanks for the conformation. why do brainlets like you always speak on topics they know nothing about?
>>
Cubies love to shit on the PS2 but forget they get their teeth kicked in by the Xbox.
>>
>>719593615
Cube kids really have no ground to stand on. No gaems, no legacy beyond smash troons, no compelling features, no online, the worst controller. I hold everyone else in higher esteem than them. They're below Dreamcast guys, PS2 guys and Xbox guys and PC guys.
>>
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>>719593115
you are just making shit up. what effects? name one and prove it with a video or screenshot.

Xbox verifyably has:
- way, way better reflections on cars. you can see the road reflecting in the back of the car in real-time. on PS2 that's barely visible.
- better text rendering. the placements over the cars are barely legible on PS2.
- better car materials like paints and glass, especially broken glass
- very obviously less aliasing
- much better tree textures, pic related
- game menu runs at 60 fps whereas PS2 menu is 30 fps
- more motion blur and anti-aliasing of some sort. obviously there's personal preference involved here but they included these effects because THEY thought it looked better, and only the Xbox could run them at 60 fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMRy6JowZkE
>>
>>719585696
And why does every game need more than 4 light sources? How does it benefit fighting games for instance?
>>
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>>719592972
I don't know what you're on about, but I was actually agreeing with you. I also have this comparison with BioShock Infinite
>>
>>719594212
MILF
Man I love FEAR
>>
>>719593140
Full raytracing with some kind of global illumination will be great when GPUs are fast enough to actually do it without all the AI upscaling and other fakery.
>>
>>719594162
we need xbox emulation that doesnt suck
>>
If anyone actually denies that there is a competency crisis in the vidya industry due to DEI and other retarded shit then they are braindead.
>>
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>>719594290
Man I Love First Encounter Assault Recon, or MILF-EAR, if you like
>>
>>719594454
kek
I do dread they day we get the Jeet Demake of FEAR that somehow needs 200gbs of hard drive space and a 60 series just to get a flat 30 fps
>>
>>719594367
newer Xboxes have backwards compatibility so emulation isn't needed for preservation like with some other consoles. I think that's why Xbox emulation sucks so much. that video is proof: you can play Burnout 3 just fine at a higher resolution, just need an Xbox 360 or better.
>>
>>719594212
You weren't agreeing with me, because /v/ isn't one person.
>>
>>719586054
no but seriously how did they do this
>>
>>719594638
>because /v/ isn't one person.
prove it
>>
>>719594638
Sorry, Mr. Schizoposter, my bad
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>>719594656
Mirror texture on the ground maybe?
>>
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>>719594592
No worries, the AAA industry is pretending that the FPS genre doesn't exist. We're safe for now
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>>719580680
retard
>>
>>719594656
all of this is possible right now, nvidia just isn't paying anyone to force it in every game unlike DLSS and ray-tracing.

>>719594752
planar reflection. a second camera, just like Half Life 2's water.
>>
>>719594367
Just get a real Xbox
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>>719594774
The only FPS they're pretending doesn't exist is Frames Per Second.
>>
>>719594752
>Mirror texture
if only it was that easy
>>
>>719563510
>ps2 ps3 emus still run like shit on modern hw
holy jeet devs
>>
>>719594609
>>719594809
One day we'll need 360 emulators and Burnout 3 isn't BC on xbone or sexbox
>>
>>719594864
really? that's weird.
>>
>>719594864
You can start by getting a real Xbox today
>>
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Even a shitty Telltale game has ray tracing huh...
>>
Sorry, Gordon. We had a system crash a few hours ago, and I'm just raytracing your scene.
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SAaaar
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>>719594915
>gordon has his labcoat in the reflection
Based if it changes once he get the HEV suit
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>>719594837
>>
>>719594904
I have a real Xbox, but the things are prone to taking a shit at any moment
>capacitor that leaks and destroys the board
>disc drives are all trash
>old ass IDE hard drives need to be swapped, which can only be done with a mod chip or a softmodded console. if the hard drive breaks before you softmod it and back up the eeprom, changing it out becomes 10x more annoying
>>
>>
>>719594992
>SLOP sign is in the 2006 game instead of nu-Saints
>>
>>719571001
>RT ultra
lol
>>
>>719595013
Yeah, it's actually based on what model he has.
>>
>>719595046
Mod it and learn to maintain it, it's not hard.
>>
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Sorry but there's no time for optimization when we are hard at work making dense forests with super realistic atmosphere
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>>719591917
HIRE!
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>>719594837
Ha!
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>>719594167
Because night exists and the night needs many lamps to not appear completely dark.
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>>719595097
IT IS MODDED. The disc drive doesn't read discs, but running games from the hdd works. Still need to buy some shit to do a hard drive upgrade
>>
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>>719592478
>le larper quote
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How was this possible in 2004?
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>>719595138
Left is a PsOne (what we called it back then) game. Right is a modern PC game that requires a 5090 and fake frames to get 24fps of cinematic quality.
>>
>>719556327
shill thread. unreal 5 games look better than anything else on the market, past or present, stop being faggots.
>>
>>719595219
i like soulless better ngltbhdesubeit
>>
What about this?
>>
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>>719595297
amen brudda exactly my thought, its the eternal poofag sneed thread
>>
>>719595272
>Actual nerds in dev positions
>Gaming wasn't mainstream so Publishers weren't complete corpo cunts yet
>Devs had heart and passion for vidya and weren't churned out of some shitty cal-arts tier compsci coding college
>Actual art direction instead of scanning shit
>Multitude of engines being made developed and used instead of UE5 for everything
>>
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>>719595305
Hey no shame in that. You grew up with nothing but slop so you don't know what taste is.
>>
>>719556327
>>719557303
Uhh those were actually fake, sweaty. Real reflections are worth the performance hit okay? Now enjoy your fake frames.
>>
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Explain calmly how to make this scene without rt or 100 gorrilion man hours (still not possible)
Also this is 540p with 4x framegen, everything is moving. "Now show it in motion" or "ghosting slop" are not suitable or relevant responses.
This is a random street ingame, no cherry picking
>>
>>719595456
>fake frames
>doesn't have a card capable of framegen
This, here, is the crux of the 4chan problem: poors.
>>
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>>719556327
Unreal Engine 5 look's better
>>
>>719595194
How does this prove he’s rping
>>
>>719595454
That nu-Ratchet footage looks like the game's picking which crate to break so it doesn't have to do too much physics stuff.
>>
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>>719556327
>>719595525
I'll share one bonus picture with nice lens flare and cinematic reflections but don't come asking for more
>>
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RE4 PS2 looks like shit. Here's me totally playing it for real at 4k. If you don't believe me, you're a pajeet shill consoomer paypig.
>>
>>719595526
she doesnt have any. the cube was a weak ass smelee machine powered by estrogen.
>>
>>719595865
Now explain why the Gamecube was bad in English.
>>
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lost technology
>>
>>719596040
Meanwhile in BF6 you can destroy a wall
>>
>>719596040
>aliasing everywhere
thanks i need to brush my eyes now
>>
>>719595865
The cube was the second most powerful machine of the generation. It was just hampered by 3" DVDs reducing the size and quality of the assets (and the fact that nobody trusted Nintendo and wanted to port to it). Emulation proved the PS2 versions had the assets necessary for cranking it up, but was limited by the weak Emotion Engine, reducing the output resolution to shit.
>>
>>719596224
Weak genetics
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>>719596184
hey I can do that too!
>>
back then games used to actually be rendered. tfw you realize you're all playing fake games since like 2013
>>
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>>719595684
stfu, zoomy
>>
>>719596496
>fake pic
Mine was totes real, y'all.
>>
>>719582359
What you're describing is the PS2's Emotion Engine which is what allowed for all of the special effects to be possible on the PS2 but not other games
Another great example of this is MGS2 with the rain on the Tanker level, the Xbox port doesn't have a good effect there because the effect had to be specially made within the Emotion Engine's design
>>
>>719596642
to be possible on the PS2 but not other consoles*
>>
>>719556327
Lighting's completely flat, so no. Ray tracing isn't just reflections.
>>
>>719577198
This. Only retarded tendiefags claim otherwise.
>>
>>719596717
These threads are made daily by one single poorfag with a pre-RTX GPU (or maybe he doesn't even own a PC or console). He doesn't care about truth. He just cares that the grapes are confirmed sour for him.
>>
>>719596040
Is Armageddon worth playing?
>>
>>719560750
WHO WANT SOME WANG
>>
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>>719585696
>>719586916
>>
>>719596992
I've not played it but reviews from the time painted it as not enough to be red faction 3 or enough to be guerilla 2.
>>
>>719560920
It also had a limit of 6 enemies on screen lol
>>
>>719585696
>Having more than 4 light sources
Only a problem because you're using pixel shaders instead of vertex shaders. Our addiction to pixel shaders is making games run worse and struggle to scale.

>>719595179
Wrong. You can tune the maximum blackness of rendered textures/vertices manually. Look at how Ocarina of Time, Morrowind, and the old GTA games have seamless day/night cycles despite using no dynamic pixel shaders.
>>
>>719597484
Nah, real looking nights and true darkness is literally the coolest thing graphics wise in modern games.
>>
Not bad looking for a PS2 game.
>>
>>719595109
DEPLOY THE ANTI SOUL GAS
>>
>>719597626
don't fall for the HDR meme
>>
>>719577109
AITD 4 was such a good game, truly underrated.
>>
>>719595046
I have to switch the power supply on one of my Xboxes. I just don't fuckin feel like it.
But I spose I'll make that my next project.
I yanked the capacitor from it already, tho it had already leaked. It didn't seem to damage the board though. Traces all look intact... So psure the psu took a shit.
>>
>>719597626
The "coolest things" always cost a shit ton of computing power.
>>
>>719556327
>re4
>ps2
it's all so tiresome
>>
>>719599001
/v/ will hate that one....
>>
>>719595272
>>719595341
this fucking guy again

kys
>>
>>719595489
nothing about this shot requires ray-tracing. if you make the claim that ray-tracing is REQUIRED to render something like this you've got the burden of proof. we had all these features in games without RT.
>>
>>719595489
That's just screen space reflection.
>>
>>719599553
no, it would require planar reflection since it's showing stuff from off screen. but you definitely don't need RT for it.
>>
>>719556327
Should I play this game with controller or mouse and keyboard
>>
>>719556327
these always look like shit in motion
>>
>>719594992
>>719595058
I still can’t believe the trannies on the dev team for the reboot had the audacity to talk shit about the old games when this crap is what they had coming up. Next level hubris.
>>
>>719582359
That game is dogshit on every platform. By a developer who exclusively made shit games for decades before being sent to the LEGO shovelware mines.
>>
File: mine.png (2.42 MB, 1920x1080)
2.42 MB
2.42 MB PNG
>>719599553
>>719599457
I was thinking more about the lighting
>>719599317
cope and seethe
>>
>>719582657
>PS2 however does it at 60fps.
ZoE2 has slowdown out the ass. The penultimate mission is in slowmotion.
>>
>>719559138
Its hard to believe that a technology like this simply doesn't exist anymore.
>>
>>719599986
You mean the assault on Nohman's base?
To be fair the game was rendering a fuck load of enemies.
>>
>>719559753
Unquestionably
>>
>>719600358
>You mean the assault on Nohman's base?
Yes. The lines from your useless teammates were so repetitive and annoying I had to mute the game for that part.
>>
>>719599949
Who the fuck cares about lighting/reflections when physics/interactivity is total shit, and the ai is buggy as fuck. I don't give a FUCK about real time day of time change, prebaked light is plenty.
>>
>>719564257
wii edition
>>
File: SoClight.webm (1.83 MB, 1600x900)
1.83 MB
1.83 MB WEBM
>>719581271
Multiple light sources. The thing you're seeing that makes everything smeared and ugly isn't deferred rendering, it's PBR (physically based rendering) and shitty global illumination and volumetric effects.
>Games from 2000s-2010s look way better than most of the shit we get today.
One of the reasons Stalker looks so cool and can do that lighting stuff is because it's deferred rendering.
>>
>>719580680
based
snoys seething
>>
File: 1752725290696559.gif (3.56 MB, 256x188)
3.56 MB
3.56 MB GIF
>>719556327
Why yes I also enjoy making this joke with friends whenever we play an old game and see reflections.
>>
>>719582642
retard
>>
>>719595109
good god this is the ugliest shit ive ever seen
>>
>>719595219
lighting looks better on the gamecube somehow lol
>>
>>719596040
this game was so good. technical marvel too
>>
>>719595130
thats hot
>>
>>719559753
Brazil



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