These games kick ass after you get used to the terrible controls.Why doesn't anyone ever mention this series? It's amazing.
Yeah, the ps1 peessure sensitve controls really can't be beat when it comes to this seriesJust lightly press, then hold square when you gotta run up the stairs. Just make sure you have the FAMAS equipped
>>719606525because it's been talked to death back then, what's left nowadays is seething for the phantom pain not fulfilling people's expectations, konami for being greedy assholes and kojima for being a hack and a wannabe diva. hell not even the schizos that were during mgsv's release are around anymore.that said nice to know you enjoy them OP. check the vr missions disc if you want more mgs1 goodness, and try snake tales in mgs2's substance disc, those were pretty wack in terms of story, especially the last one, since i played it i kinda wanted the series to go to that direction.
>>719606525I've gotten filtered so many times by the controls and I just can't play them even if I want to like them
>>719607839Use the pressure sensitive buttons.
>>719607150Kojima is cooking rn and his "technically not metal gear" game should be excellent if the quality of DS2 is anything to go by. You can not like the gameplay systems in that game but you cannot deny it's a level of quality that you just do not see in this industry much. Pointed in the direction of a stealth action game we're gonna be eating good.If you let the story of a video game or the cringyness of a dev ruin a game for you, you are actually gay as fuck. Go read a book.(i mean the impersonal "you", not you anon)
>>719606525The controls were never terrible.Zoomers are just too used to the modern, casual over-shoulder / FPS movie slop.Only people who could even claim that "no one mentions" the MGS series were probably born in the 2010s. The saga was one of the very PILLARS of the entire gaming industry for decades. MGS2-4 were the flagship titles of Sony, PW was the system seller for PSP, and V was shaping up to be the game of the century, until Jewnami ruined it.Memes, tears, jolly good time was had for a good 30 years. Countless "OMG TECHNOLOGY!!" threads about all the crazy, minute details the series packed were a frequent sight on /v/, as were the MGO1-2 and PW servers, while those were still up.>>719606695PS1 did not have pressure sensitive buttons.2 and 3 did.>>719607839I honestly don't think it's the controls that are the problem here. It's (You).I've seen waaay too many young newbies, who clearly did not get to play anything made pre-2005 during their childhood, and thus are not used to the idea of having to LEARN the GAMEPLAY style and pacing, get "filtered" by numerous older titles. All because their prior gaming experience has molded you expectations that do not match the game, and you don't know how to change your head's settings.Example: one of my buddies recently wanted to give the THIEF games a shot. He quit within minutes. Not a surprise, he's a Soulsborne fag.But then, to my surprise as well, weeks later he LITERALLY psyched himself one day, saying to himself "Okay bro, you ARE now going to spend hours, going slooow, NOT engaging with enemies, checking each corner...", etc. And lo 'n behold: it's now one of his favorite games.In case of MGS, I assume the biggest "Challenge" to many young rookies might come from the lack of free camera, and the idea that you're not supposed to "stealth KILL" all enemies, but to stealth-STEALTH past them.But to both possible cases, simply reading the MANUAL and finishing some VR Training missions helps.
>>719608639yeah theres this pervasive notion that all gameplay should be homogenized enough so that your skills are transferable for every game. Or else the game is "clunky".Is it any wonder with how our attention spans are fried that people do not want to relearn how to run around and shoot people though?
VR missions is the real game, the rest is movie game slop/tech demo tier (sorry for the zoomer rhetoric, I have brainrot)
>>719608639thief is kind of a bad example to bring up in this context. it controls like a prototypical modern mouselook stealth game, like if anything modern console oriented games are clunkier in how they control. metal gear is way more unorthodox in its approach.
>>719608849>Is it any wonder with how our attention spans are fried that people do not want to relearn how to run around and shoot people though?"Our"? My boy, I've only gotten more and more PATIENT the older I grow.And the question itself demonstrates the upside-down mentality folks have these days:instead of improving themselves and escaping the sameface-rehash hell and their own hamster wheel life, they just seek what's essentially akin to unhealthy comfort food.This one Super Bunnyhop video from 2014 always comes to my mind when people discuss MGS and/or these modern, casual remakes. In short, the "generic AAA action game w/ stealth mechanics" game design and control scheme fatigue was already starting to hit people, with older folks with some industry experience already questioning whether the younger generation of devs simply lacked imagination and passion. He would then demonstrate how many different ways you could implement the matter of firing a GUN in a video game, starting with something like DOOM, continuing to MGS3, and finishing with the original Receiver. Simple and effective way of showing how you can have vastly different kinds of atmosphere, pacing and play-feel, by altering how the player interacts with the digital world.>>719609584I can see how someone could consider Thief to be a fairly "modern" when it comes to controls. But context-wise, as in how the game is portrayed, how you need to play it, and how much data is given to you right off the bat? That absolutely changes everything, with Thief being far more brutalistic and time-demanding than just about any game made since.Certain zoom zoom Youtuber put it well:"Where's my Xray vision tracking for the enemies??"I also don't know what exactly is so "unorthodox" about MGS in general, especially for the time. 1-3 all do play essentially the same as the MSX2's Metal Gear 2: they're top-down action games, all about observing the scenes and moving when the time is right.
>>719607839I can sort of understand 3, but I just don't get how 1 and 2 would filter you that bad. if you said syphon filter was unplayable sure but classic mgs is pretty damn simple, plays like 2d zelda.
>>719609769Yep completely agree. I missed that video, sounds right up my alley. I had long felt this way but literally never once heard another person put it into words until I heard Electric Underground mention it and realized I wasn't alone.
>>719609789>classic mgs is pretty damn simple, plays like 2d zelda.Something more and more people have never played. Remember: some people are already demanding remakes for PS3 era games, because they're so "old" and "clunky".It really boils down to the modern industry being sooo sterile, standardized, and generic these days. Most GenZ folks have never had to read a game manual. Most of them have never had to truly master a new gameplay style. With this sort of digital upbrining, just changing the default "use" key makes them go bananas.>>719610524>. I missed that video, sounds right up my alley.Here's the clip I mentioned:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCmmYF4rOwo>>719610524>I had long felt this way but literally never once heard another person put it into words until I heard Electric Underground mention it and realized I wasn't alone.That's kinda the problem with the modern day internet: the massive wider masses easily overpower the more niche, more passionate, and often a bit older demographic's voice. And these days, it would seem that the viral marketers do use this as their leverage, essentially retconning history to change the narrative, fertilizing the playing field to improve sales of their sterilized rehashes and remasters.As a true oldfag, I've lost count on how many once well known basic gaming facts, or even iocnic franchises, have become forgotten knowledge. "Lost classics".Simple example: how many zoom zooms even remember when WORMS had a legit e-sports scene?
>>719608639So i didn't use the Famas while running as i went up THOSE stairs in mgs1OkYou know everything, Boss
>>719609769how many of those old control methods/formats are purposeful enough to stand on their own outside of their original practical consideration?(3d is a new unfamiliar thing and we need to move ahead with our project). many games are neat when you factor in the gaps and limitations devs had to work around but would they actually justify themselves entirely over the standards set by dark souls or mgsv in a new game? I'm sure there are some but many not.
>>719611538>how many of those old control methods/formats are purposeful enough to stand on their own outside of their original practical consideration?Impossible to say.But, there is an argument to be made that especially Jap devs used to be absolute detail maniacs, as people like Guy Cihi used to describe Team-Silent, the Konami's "B group" behind Silent Hill series.Truly few things were left "good enough", and pushing limits used to be the passion goal of just about any dev up until the late-00s.On top of this, considering how many control scheme and design tropes remained for decades, it's safe to say that some elements were deliberate, some became beloved part of the franchise / genre. There's been similar talks about the classic survival horror and its tank controls + cinematic camera-angles, with the free-aim OTS / FPS crowd always blaming them on "technological limitations", somehow always ignoring the fact that series like SH and Fatal Frame kept them until the 2010s, and now folks are literally recreating the style in their indie titles.>Standards set by Dark Souls or MGSVStreamlining and homogenizion at their best.DaS didn't invent said playstyle, it was already utilized in the DeS, which itself was just a mix of oldschool Diablo x Kingsfield x 3D Zelda.V was already being criticized for being a literal "Ubishit" game, a modern Far Cry wearing MGS skin. Being an unfinished title didn't help.That being said, both of those games do portray some level of intention with their design choices. V was essentially just a bigger, next-gen Peace Walker knockoff, a continuation showing Big Boss' growth into this legendary warrior, with each game from 3 onwards making him easier to control, and more devastating in combat. Dark Souls is a funny case study, as I've already seen many, many newbie Soulsborne-fans criticize it (and DeS) for being "sooo slow and clunky", comparing it to the faster pace Bloodborn and ER , double so to Nightreign.
>>719610798It's not just zoomers, I've seen millennials get "filtered" by the control scheme of old games I know they've played and finished decades ago. Their attention spans have been messed up and got too use to the way modern games control
>>719606525>after you get used to the terrible controls.You mother fuckers make me feel like an octogenarian. No wonder publishers are greenlighting remakes of PS3 games.
>>719612179>>719611538... continuing this wall-of-text of mine:There are ways to make even the "modern controls" more varied, more nuanced and all that, utilizing some more creative, more stark gameplay design choices.The problem is, that there are many modern tropes the devs can't seem to shake off, fearing that it might "alienate" someone, or something.The good old Twin Snakes, the 2002 remake of MGS1 on GC, is a prime example what happens if you haphazardly slap "updated" controls and a pile of new gameplay feats into unaltered setting. The game was essentially completely broken by the roll-jumps and first-person aiming.Something similar can be witnessed in the MGS3 Delta as well, with all the footage of some total newbies playing it with the MGSV style control and aim showing them effortlessly blasting heads with the stock pistol, all while the typical Ubisoft-style "Enemy awareness markers" always spoiling the enemy guards' positions long before the player even notices them.The latter also renders all of the Spy gadgets snake acquires practically useless, not to mention diminishes the need to stop and observe your surroundings, directly degrading the clearly intended playstyle and pacing.From what I've seen, Delta also does not appear to alter the damage values or AI detection range to balance these new mechanics out. Being able to tank a full AK47 mag to the face was already an issue in the 2004 OG, but now it's just hilarious. There's even less push to utilize all the mechanics because of this, from camos to blowing up those storage shacks to downgrade enemies' equipment and HP.>>719612275Yeah, that is unfortunately a common sight.One part of it is just people accustomed to totally different kind of games, experiencing a culture shock when attempting something totally different (say, Fifa & HALO players jumping onto MGS).The other part is probably pure, unadulterated phone-addiction doomscrolling, rotting folks' brains and attention span.
very very poor taste
>>719606525The first game was very ahead of its time
>>719612179Yeah I mean if we can't convince people tank controls and static camera angles are still worthy designs for horror games, how the fuck can we justify MGS to those type of people. Let alone even more unconventional stuff..
>>719606525The controls get better after MGS1, but they’re never amazing. I soldier through the controls for the story in these games. Otherwise, MGS is a fairly mediocre franchise from an actual video game perspective.
>>719606525Not everyone has the time to beat all those VR missions
>>719613248Sometimes, convincing isn't really a requirement.Different tropes for different people isn't a joke, it used to be THE golden rule of all businesses: any product design used to start with the designers pinpointing their target audience / customer, not only by things like gender and age, but by their living habits and other preferences.This idea kinda "died" with the advent of the "casual gaming" boom in the late-00s.Sometimes, convincing people is not even worth the effort. I've met people who started playing FF7 Remake as their very first JRPG, and blatantly shouted to my face that they do not care about the story one bit. They don't care that it's a sequel to the 1997 game and its later spinoffs.However, sometimes a friendly nudge can yield great results.My favorite example actually is about music, and how common phenomena it is for many people not first like or "feel" some new song, only to slowly "warm up" for it after repeated playthroughs. Some call this "living with the song"; not just instantly passing judgement within the first few moments, but getting to know it better.This applies to games as well. False expectations easily result disappointments, and lack of varied gaming habits tend to limit people's scope of possibilities these days.Thus, exposure to some truly different kind of games is only a positive thing, but it may require some older, more experienced gamers to remind the newcomers that they are essentially embarking on a journey to a different "country", with a different "language" and "set of rules" to their own.If you ever come across one of those "tired gamer" people, who think they've "outgrown" the vidya, instruct them to have a pause and play something outside their comfort zone. Something older, something from a totally foreign genre. Guide MP people to SP games, SP players to co-op experiences, e-sports narcs to something chill and open-ended... etc.
>>719613993Personally I think 2 has ''worse'' controls because it gives you more options and the complexity increases. At least the game is snappy and precise - that's why it feels like ''I'm the retard'' if you screw up. At least, it did before modern controls have become almost standardized.3 has similar controls but the normal game mode is way more forgiving.
>>719613993>MGS is a fairly mediocre franchise from an actual video game perspective.Wew, your perspective of the gaming industry must be whacky as fuck, if the MGS - one of THE most varied, most detailed and most replayable games of all time are "mediocre"!Like said earlier, the amount of "OMG TECHNOLOGY!!" threads we used to have on /v/ should speak volumes. I feel like that even after 30 years of playing the games, I still keep learning something new about them each year.The level of interaction and interactive systems is nothing short of marvelous. If anything, MGS are the antithesis of the modern, stagnated industry.
>>719614371I actually find MGS2 way harder to play, because it uses some outright survival-horrorish camera angles at times, in some super narrow corridors.And don't get me started on that short "platforming" section on the maintenance bridges around half way into the Big Shell. Rolling over instakill gaps ain't fun.
been playing mgs2 a lot lately. i forgot how fun it is to play. also based solidus.
>>719614461There are games that do all those things better going back to MGS. All MGS games do a lot of things good, but nothing amazing. They’re great stories with very interesting characters, and occasionally I have a lot of fun with them when actually playing the game. But in terms of actual gameplay, none of the games set a super high bar.
>>719614690Solidus did nothing wrong. Fuck the Patriots.
>>719614743>There are games that do all those things better going back to MGS.Can you name me some?I'm genuinely curious. I need more truly impressive games to play.>none of the games set a super high barI find this a curious statement, because I personally consider Kojima to have been one of the pioneers of the entire gaming industry, skyrocketing the standards with each new title they released.
>>719614798i never really noticed it when i was younger but the final battle sure does love putting that empty flagpole in various shots. kind of funny when you know about the american flag thing.
>Why doesn't anyone ever mention this series? It's amazing.Because you're 10 years late, MGSV was the most hyped game on /v/ ever for a reason
>>719608639I played them on release and the controls and game structure are outdated as fuck, still love them though
>>719609550VR has some really bullshit missions like >Take out 12 enemies with a SOCOM without being spotted>Btw all 12 are facing in your direction as soon as the mission starts Also having to do identical time trials for EVERY FUCKING MISSION is just horrid padding. You have to wade through like 200+ missions of boring sludge to unlock the few good ones like playing as Grey Fox.
>>719616302Of course they are "outdated".Does it make them "bad"? Not really.Do they serve a purpose? Absolutely.I also wholehearthedly believe that the game design as a whole has only declined for the past 20 years. The aforementioned homogenization, which itself was part of the speeding up streamlining and corner cuts, really has done more harm than good.
>>719606525>Why doesn't anyone ever mention this series?
