Would you say an ATB system is more or less a straight upgrade from a standard turn based system?
I think its a straight fucking downgrade. Feels like shit to play, I would rather just have normal turn based.
>>719607060I never hot the hate. I prefer turn based too but never got the strong hate one way or another.
>>719607060This.
All I know is I hate the stagger system
>>719606942>Menuing is also a skill
>>719606942>need to gimp it and wait on the selection menu for your character to finish their turn or the enemy turn starts earlier and you get cucked out of all the extra time the animation takesIt's shit. FFX was far better, where it's similar to FFT.
>>719606942I'd rather play a well balanced turn based game but theres undeniably more you can do with ATB. The better middle ground is the turn system that Digimon Cyber Sluts and FF10 has where turn order is determined by speed and such and you can buff yourself to get infinite turns.
Dimengeon is the bigger upgrade
>>719606942Its mostly better than what came before it, two specific types of turn based. The first is when one whole side, enemy or party, acts on a single turn. The second is when everyone in the battle acts on the same turn. When it accounts for individual turns like FFX does then ATB is outclassed.
It depends on implementation, but it can improve the experience. In FF titles for instance seeing the bar load up faster or slower when you were buffed or debuffed could be beneficial.. Most games also had a "swap to anyone else who's ATB is up" so you weren't forced to give commands to one simply to get to the next etc. It also added variability with characters who's stats meant their speed was higher to start, before Slow / Stop /Quick / Berserk style spells. There's also variability with Octopath Traveler, Bravely Default, and others that often throw another command in that has to do with turn capability, order, or frequency.
>>719606942I think it's fine. Like a sidegrade it best, just a different way of doing things. I wish more was done with Spells having different cast times like in FFIV (you already have the bar there after all) or things like Cyan's Bushido (but less obnoxiously shit like the Mobile Port does).Without those, it doesn't have a point and can reasonably just be done with a normal Turn-Based system.
Nahh, the system FFX uses is the best form of turn based system
>>719606942It depends.In the case of Final Fantasy, it's irrelevant. You can have Turn-Based, ATB, pure Action. It doesn't matter. Square can't balance any of them.
>>719607591FF2 was perfection!
>>719607652It was the closest the series came to actually being a video game, that's for sure.
>>719606942No, its literally the same shit except ATB adds a level of stress/urgency. Which I'm not complaining about, that's the only value ATB has, especially in games where you can turn up the speed of it.
>>719606942Very few games actually takes good advance. It is usually makes the game worse.
>>719607494There are also systems modified where the turn order is affected by a host of other battle conditions and circumstance,even where there is no specific "ATB meter" you can watch.
FFT's "charge time" was miles better because it was stat-basedIt was a dozen years before someone figured out push/pull on turn order could work too with Bravely Default
>>719606942Yes ATB is a big upgrade and its insane how much people hate it, theres no reason, its a extra stat to build, it makes battles way more dynamic and better while still giving you time to think what to do or wait if you need to, it mimics action combat while still doing turn based. in my personal opinion i like it a lotturn based<ATB<reaction timed hits (mario rpg style)
>>719608009Pic unrelated
>>719606942play cinnabar nights
>>719606942ATB is shit. I mod it out when I can.
>>719606942Nah, it's not inherently better or worse. Depends on what the game is going for, some games are better suited for turn based. I love ATB though.
>>719606942Only Atlus makes good turn based, and it never once did ATB
>>719607285The issue is that as the Final Fantasy series went on, the ATB's command entry and animation/combat resolution became more and more decoupled. This resulted in the games gradually starting to feel more sluggish and slushy since combatants could queue up lots of actions that would take forever to resolve with no indication as to how the queue was stacked up, when queued actions would come out, etc.Games like FF5 are acceptable since it's very difficult to queue up too many actions as, while the command entry and action are still decoupled, it's still fairly tightly held together, and since ATB action stops while any given combat action is being resolved.FF6 was where shit started to get out of hand and the pacing of the fights was ruined since you would often end up with everybody on a full ATB bar and you'd sit there waiting for everyone to go without actually advancing towards their next turn.FF7 tried to find a middle ground with its "Recommended" setting, but that only seemed to pause the ATB bars while actions were being resolved on a "when the game fucking feels like it" basis with zero consistency.FFX-2 was at least kind enough to show the "windup" for queued actions for your own party members.FFXII was the only time they started to reel things back in since the majority of common actions were able to resolve in parallel, with the exception of "heavy" animations that would require the game to fucking halt for all except that.
>>719606942I think it works if it's done without the FF6 style system of needing to hit the button right as your bar fills in order to not waste any time.I've seen some RPGmaker games use a system of just having normal turns pausing time for you to select a choice masking the timer based ones.As in, if the Warrior gets a turn every 30 units of time, and the Mage gets one every 50, then assuming the warrior has the higher initiative or whatever, the turn order would go W M W W M W W MIt's an extreme example, but it's basically how I prefer it.It means that minor alterations to speed can make drastic changes to the flow of a fight as time goes on. Abilities could alter speed for a certain time. It means that attacks that last a number of "turns" essentially wear off quicker for enemies with higher speed, adding a new level of strategy.
>>719606942Effectively it's just turn based but with turns based on speed.
>>719608771Hm? When I played the demo I didn't recall any ATB meter but there were lots of ways to get moved up in the turn order, from outright boosts/status effects, to using certain spells/abilities that will go off at different times. With one of the bosses I recall you had to utilize certain attacks that would shift you up the turn order; if you just used your biggest nukes the boss would fry you in the time it took for them to come out
>>719609284No, I'm saying the game is slop and to purchase an advertisement, you shilling fuckwit.
I can't tell since it's so easyAerith and Tifa are a kino combo btw
>>719606942Its a downgrade, true turn based is better. But with that said I still enjoy the ATB games. V, og VII, and VIII are all still pretty fun for me.
>>719606942ATB has potential to be great, but there's always just something that feels off about it.>spells feel crappy to cast>speed doesn't seem to matter/matters too much>there's odd pauses here and there that kill the flow>enemy just stops while you're menuingFF7 remake kinda went in the right direction, but I feel the attack mashing kinda killed what I want from it. I want some kinda system where you have your bar charging for attacks/abilities, but you can also skill your way through battle dodging/have to actually aim your attacks.You shouldn't be able to queue up attacks imo. You choose the attack, and it performs then and there. Got hit instead? tough shit.
>>719609380I mean Aerith and Yuffie
>>719609363>Discussing a JRPG game with something between static turn based and a timed ATB meter, without even referencing the name >SLOP>SHILLOh I see, you have brain damage and all your buzzwords are leaking out. I'm sorry to hear it, anon.
>>719606942The worst turn based system IMHO is the 'enter all commands at once, then go in speed order' kind of shit, like in earthbound.ATB means you have to pause if you really need to think, but that's a price I'm willing to pay to forgo the previous kind of system- with the former, you can't really react in time to catastrophes like a healer going down.Personally, I prefer a system where it goes: Actor's turn comes up-> they make a command -> command is executed -> onto next quickest combatant.
>>719609576>ATB + pause I think this is why many of the games that used it, including a number of the Squeenix games added "Active" vs "Wait" mode and eventually set the latter as the default to solve that problem. Active meant that other meters would still accrue even when you were deciding what command to use or spell to cast in the menus, Wait stopped time when you were in command lists/menus. >Earthbound This reminds me of sort of the "reverse" of the ATB meter - the >rolling health/asset counterwhere, as in Earthbound/Mother you could take critical/deadly damage but if you were able to heal before
>all these people hating on ATBI can only guess that you people only play FF and have never experienced the turn based systems in games like Dragon Quest or Megami Tensei, which ATB is far better than.
>>719609873you guess incorrectly.
>>719609576>The worst turn based system IMHO is the 'enter all commands at once, then go in speed order' kind of shit, like in earthbound.You're gay and stupid.
>enter all commands at once>action order is visible while issuing commandsthis is the way
>>719610061Why would prefer the retarded "input the entire party's commands and hope for the best" system or the binary "I go, you go, its less fun that way" system?With ATB if you learn how to work the system, you gain the advantage. You are rewarded for getting good at the game.
>>719610431Oh, I wasn't signing up for an argument with you. I was just saying that your presumption was obviously incorrect.
>active mode forces you to think and react fast.>most people just use wait mode and play it more like traditional turn based.You know how shitter like to boast turn based is the genre for intelectual? Apparently needing 10 minutes to think what would you do in your turn is being big brained.
>>719610721>You know how shitter like to boast turn based is the genre for intelectualno?
>>719609873Chrono Cross and Xenogears both have better turn based systems and they came out around the same time as the biggest FF games with ATB
>>719606942Literally a non issueI can count with my hands the times that i actually took advantage of shit like attacks having priorities. Other than that, most of the time it's the exact same shit.>>719607174Same
>>719610721Trying again? These are weak trolling attempts, 2/10 at best. I expect better out of /v/
>>719610846>turn based is so boring!>your ADHD monkey brain just can't grasp it
>>719610893I don't think most players know how CC's turns work.
>>719606942Prefer turn based, I don't mind ATB, but it's not my preference
>>719607060FPBP. I don't know what fucking moron thought adding MORE waiting would make then based combat better. FF9 is the best example for why ATB is a fundamentally flawed system
>>719610974I've seen people say turn-based (including ATB) is boring, yeah.
>>719606942It's worse. A standard speed based implementation of turns achieves the same thing but without stupid bullshit like animation length being a factor in your attacks. Devs can play around with this and make it part of the mechanics like ffX-2 but it simply isn't a good or fun mechanic.
>>719610893I'm not saying certain version of turn based can't be better, but most people seem to ignore that there are worse versions of turn based than ATB, and in fact for the longest time those worse versions were the most used.
>>719612302>there are worse versions of turn based than ATBThere aren't.
>>719607060That.
>>719607174this. i started playing turn based games with ATB so i never thought anything of it at first but after having tons of experience with both i prefer turn based but have no ill will towards ATB whatsoeverthey both have their place and variety is nice
