Why is the japanese player not so much for immersive sym?
>>719618116Japs unironically have shit taste, which is why many of their great games get 1 entry or forgotten while they pour billions of yen a year into gacha slop
>>719618116I don't think japs learned keyboard and mouse controls until very recently
>>719618116Bioshock is genuinely shit.
>>719618116I don't know why people act like the Japanese have superior taste, when the average consumer watches the worst anime and plays gacha games
>>719618116>what is Way of the Samurai
>>719618116Because they were on PC.
>>719618116Japanese gamers like challenge above anything else and don't care for story unless it's a jrpg. All of these are piss easy even for western games.
>>719618116Japs raped Chinese people in Nanking on orders of their 5’3” god-emperor
>>719618354Winnie the Pooh
>>719618350>Japanese gamers like challenge above anything else That's a bold faced lie. Japanese devs literally had to make the games easier for domestic releases
>>719618308Average of every society is a drooling retard.All of global society is being carried by like 1 - 2 million actually productive people while all other jobs and functions are basically adult daycare to ensure they behave and don't get in the way of the actually contributing people.
>>719618347Why do Japaneses not like PC games?
>>719618350only in arcades. Play Resident Evil JP version and see if you can get close to running out of resources
>>719618116They get motion sickness more easily and struggle to play shooters generally
>>719618447Ye but v tards love to pretend the Japanese have this superior taste when they are all addicted to shitty grindfests
>>719618394Franklin Roosevelt’s Internment Camps
>>719618510I think because home consoles were heavily marketed there and became the default way to release a game in Japan, compared to the west where there was always a healthy PC gaming scene since Ultima.
>>719618539I don't understand this. How do you get motion sickness looking at a screen? I've heard people claim that videos / games gave them "motion sickness" many times and it's completely baffling to me.
>>719618350kek
>>719618621Try playing an FPS with an FOV lower than 70.
>>719618510Active social lives outside of their homes. Its why mobile caught on with them a decade before the US
>>719618621Valve games make me vomit. Half life 2 in particular made me vomit twice back in 2005
>>719618116Notice how all those were made before 2012?
>>719618217Still country has population of Russia and these guys play everything. Is it lack of localization?
>>719618289I agree. Claiming it as system shock spiritual successor was a fucking marketing scam
>>719618621Some peoples' brains are just built differently, or rather crippled from the day they were born.Personally I've got the opposite problem - I'm going full barf mode the instant I get shaken without corresponding visual input, like when looking at the floor of a car.>>719618723>nips>active social livesLmao. It's the exact opposite - they went full "stare at phone all day" as their own herbivore form of escapism.
Japs are autistic as fuck so they have expectations of genres and gameplay concepts and if it doesn't fit they go insane.So resident evil is an "adventure game" therefore it MUST have puzzles and difficulty of combat must be low.Arcade games are skill based and thus MUST be difficult. If it's too easy like western arcade cabinets they screech.Another funny example of this is when some Manga publisher decided to publish full color Manga and Japs seethed because Manga is SUPPOSED to be black and white because that is how it always has been!!!Autistic little buggers
>>719618838They simply don’t get the exposure in Japan unless Japanese companies think it will do well, which is rare.
>>719618723>>719618876You both are wrong - it's because they have commutes by train instead of cars so have free downtime to pull something out of their pockets to play. Also, its a lot easier to play games on your phone and pretend you were doing something else when you parents are yelling at you to study or you are at cram school, something dumbass American kids don't need to do.
>>719618621When you see something your brain can't quite process, it might start assuming you've been poisoned and kick in defensive mechanism to purge yourself of the poison (that is, to throw up). The level of sensitivity varies by person and with some practice you can de-sentisize yourself to this phenomenon, so people who grew up on movies and vidya have likely de-sentisized themselves without even realizing. It's mostly problem for older people or rural people that just started coming in contact with the technology. And VR, because VR is so new the natively adapted generation is yet to come.
>>719618271ThisPlaystation and Nintendo dominated the Nip vidya market, you have a home PC for work and a gamecube for gaming it's only thanks to vtubers playing computer vidya that japs have gotten interested in it
>>719618217This. The Japs love JRPGs that always have the same plot, and phone gatcha games. They have fucking awful taste. You could introduce Sentinel Island to vidya and they'd have better taste.
>>719618621Having been playing cyberjunk finished 2077 recently; forced head bob, stiff camera controls, claustrophobic FOV and tossing a coin between blur and ghosting (TAA) or totally fucked pixel shimmering from any lightsource.
There's no such genre as an """""""""immersive sim""""""""". They're all just first person shooters and Japan doesn't like shooting things like Americans do. Next.
>>719618116I guess they missed that western autism about virtual reality and considered games just as complex toys that shouldn't be realistic or immersive.
>>719618116In Japan, PCs are for visual novels and eroge.There's the underlying assumption in the Japanese zeitgeist that's been present until just very recently that if you are playing or referring to playing a video game, you are talking about playing that game on a console.
>>719620175yea there is, this is a thread about em. just cause you dont like the name and dont understand what one is doesnt mean it aint real.
>>719620175Low IQ brown subhuman.
>>719618447That's a good summary lmaoLet me guess, you're Nikola Tesla?
>>719621183My name is actually Nikola lol
>>719618116>An immersive sim (simulation) is a video game genre that emphasizes player choice. Its core defining trait is the use of simulated systems that respond to a variety of player actions which combined with a comparatively broad array of player abilities allow the game to support varied and creative solutions to problems as well as emergent gameplay beyond what has been explicitly designed by the developer.[1]The only game I could think of where exploits and bugs become normal gameplay is either Quake or Team Fortress. Otherwise, there are a lot of jap games that have where you benefit from abusing the mechanics. MGS, Super mario 64, etc.
>>719621482sounds like too good of a guess, you guys throwing around secret passcodes or something?
>>719618818>Notice how all those were made before 2012?This is now. What changed?
>>719621879https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BJXdcREtR3Y
>>719622161Harder to play Immersive sims on console, also Minecraft is the most popular game and is an immersive sim
>>719618116Shut the fuck up ESL
>>719618510The only PC games they play are VNs and eroge. Some got into shooters like Apex, but I hear this niche is already declining. They don't even own computers, but go play the games in manga cafes. It's just not a PC country.
>nooo why doesn't everyone like my casualized normalfag westoidslop
>>719622161I bet if you check the dev teams they have women on them somewhere, whereas the old games in OP's image absolutely did not. Women ruin everything.
>>719622241Roblox is the most popular game you doofus.
>>719618116NuZelda is an immersive sim, but yeah, it’s a recent development for the JP industry. Their industry culture was just much more biased toward ‘controlled’ experiences where players must have fun the way the original designers planned it.
>>719622161Prey and MD are as good as Dishonred and betetr than Bioshock.The rest are not even insims.
>>719622161Streamlining and AAA game design, also a lot less nerdy types working in dev teams. ‘Complicated’ games have become haram outside of niche or indie games, modern design is all about making players feel like some kind of genius. There must be zero friction between the consumer and the ‘experience’.
>>719622161Thief, Deus Ex and DeathLoop aren't immersive sims, they're stealth games.Are atomic heart and underworld ascent supposed to be immersive/stealth games? Might need to check them out if so. The footage I saw of Atomic Heart didn't seem very fun though...
>>719624121Thief is a stealth game with immersive sim elements (it’s just not the focus of the game).Deus Ex is an immersive sim.Death Loop was an attempt at simplifying an immersive sim to make it more palatable to the modern audience.
It's been a long time since I've played Deus Ex but for the life of me I cannot think of a single instance of this mythical "emergent gameplay" that doesn't involve creative crate/barrel pushing to bypass certain sections or complete (sub)objectives in ways that don't seem intended by the devs.It's a very quest-oriented game and the devs frequently give you a shitton of different ways to solve them and account for a multitude of different ways they envisioned players doing them with things like alternate dialogue, but all of this feels like very deliberate and meticulous design, not something "emergent".When I hear "emergent gameplay", I instead think of something like the extremely varied combat scenarios in Doom WADs where the creators utililze the simple building blocks of Doom's stock enemies in increasingly novel ways by combining differently-composed groups in specific geometric layouts, leading to new interactions between player, monsters and level geometry - ones that went far beyond the designers' ideas in 1994.The combat design in Deus Ex is pretty much fully deliberate and doesn't have room for this type of novel interactions. All the player creativity lies in methods to avoid combat, but as I said, most of it is also deliberate in design.
>>719619046>>719618876I literally went to high school in the US and Japan. US socializing was going over to John's house on the weekends to smoke weed and play video games. Japan had far, far more third areas for teens because of the transit life. We'd always meet up and do shit before taking the trains home after school.
>>719621796That's not what emergent gameplay means. Emergent gameplay is about designing consistent systems which can interact with each other. Though each system is predictable in itself, the interaction can lead to unpredictable outcomes. That's not the same as a bug or an exploit, which is when a system breaks down.
>>719622767>>719623113Seethit samefag /v/ermin subhuman trash
>>719626126>the interaction can lead to unpredictable outcomes.This might be the most annoying part of the Hitman games
>>719622161PC games don't sell so you have to develop for consoles. That means UI has to be usable by gamepads which means you cannot have any complexity.
>>719627032>PC games don't sellThis isn't 2000 anymore. You're still right, but simply because it's unacceptable in AAA and even AA industry not to double-dip into console market.
>>719618116Immersive sim is not a genre. Immersive sim is the adjectival form of "emergent gameplay", and half the games in your image contain absolutely no or very minimal emergent gameplay.
>>719623130>thief 1 and 2>system shock 2<no womenbro, best level in thief 2 was designed by a woman
>>719631060thief 1*
Why is so much of the board ESLs vomiting out terrible threads then replying to themselves over and over
>>719618116The same reason westerners aren't: immersive sims are all failed shooters (Bioshock doesn't count, really, since it's a decent shooter) that reward weirdly specific autism. That's why they don't sell well.
>>719618116They fucking hate first person for some reason, l'm sure some 19 year old armchair anthropologist ITT has an explanation though
>>719631060>>719631113The worst level too
I really wish mods would ban immersive sim threads. It’s safe to say they’re filled with underage people
>>719618271It’s jarring how little influence the PC had in Japan, despite a lot of famed JRPGs being inspired by things like Ultima the amount of PC centric genres that were popular to that country could probably be counted on one hand, RTS somehow took Korea by storm and Total Warhammer has a small following but they never produced any RTS of their own, a small indie studio South Korea just made their own indie XCOM, absolutely nothing like a CRPG yet however
>>719618116japs can't write
>Western game design>Throw a bunch of systems haphazardly into a sandbox and hope it doesn't crash in on itself>Japanese game design>Games that are designedWestern games have never been good
>>719618116I still think immersive sim is a retarded name for the genre. Like you say that to anyone who isn't familiar with the genre and they'll think you're gonna be talking about some German warehouse forklift simulator instead of any of those games.
>>719618116Japs get motion sickness from first person games. That's literally it. Pretty sure they'd love shit like Deus Ex where you're rocketing off rooftops fighting giant robots with a sword if it was third person.
>>719635110>>Throw a bunch of systems haphazardly into a sandbox and hope it doesn't crash in on itself>>Games that are designedLEL,kys/
>>719625701It's also hilariously inefficient. Oh yeah you can make a crate tower to circumvent this locked door and sneak the roof to avoid an enemy encounter or you can just shoot a single round of the GEP gun and accomplish the former without the risk of ever being detected.
>>719618838>Still country has population of RussiaWhat the fuck how is this real
>>719618116Ooh I actually think I know this one. It's because Japanese PCs were completely different to US PCs with their own architecture and brands and so on (apparently it's because they needed to be more powerful with higher resolution graphics from the start to display kanji) so Japan missed out on A LOT of important western PC games.It was a bit different in the 80s though were Japanese ports of stuff like Wizardry and Ultima became popular and influential. But at some point in the early-to-mid 90s that just stopped and Japan completely missed out on the 90s/early 2000s "golden age" of PC gaming. And as a result the only immersive sims they got during the golden age were Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 and THAT'S IT. No System Shock, no Thief and no Deus Ex. But to be fair Ultima Underworld was influential over there and you do find Japanese devs talking about how it was a groundbreaking game. But the rest of the Looking Glass catalog they missed completely
>>719639665Big population boom both prior and after WW2, plus very high population density (for comparison, Japan has ~93% urban population, while Germany has only ~78%).
>>719618116How are bioshock and dishonored immersive sims lmao? They're literally babby's first single player FPS.
>>719641158Who the fuck gets into FPSes through Bioshock and Dishonored of all games?
>>719641296Bioshock was one of the biggest hits of the 7th console generation and pulled in a lot of steampunk faggots
>>719641158Bioshock's the odd one out and kinda the fence case where it kinda is one but also kinda isn't. Dishonored's totally one though, it's just way too fucking easy so a lot of people don't experiment with the mechanics. But if you do it's got some really fun emergent possibilities in there.
>>719641158Dishonored is an immesive sim. Bioshocj is not.
>>719618116If Bioshock is an immersive sim then Armored Core counts
>>719618116They cannot into FPS either. Something i heard once that first person perspective gives them motion/sea sickness. Maybe it was just nothing. But they do not approach ImSim or FPS, that is a fact. They cannot into Morrowind and such first person RPGs either.
>>7196182891st and 2nd Bioshock are great. Sure, a bit simplified, but great notheless. Its 3rd that has shat the bed, the room, and the franchise as a whole.
>>719618116Informed opinion:Japs dont like open ended game design, they want to know the best way to play and win in a game. Game guides sold a lot in jap compared to the rest of the world.If there is no best way to do it, the japa dont do it
>>719643251Imsims do have a best way though.
>>719622161>atomic heartReplace it with System Re-Shock. Its a much better game.
>>719618271PC88 and PC98 were extremely popular back in the day, so they definitely knew how to use a keyboard for games. The mouse being optional definitely factored in, though. The bigger problem was that nobody made games with 1st person view, so the genre never developed the same way as it did in the west.The PC scene in Japan would've turned out very differently if the Japs weren't such huge perverts who wasted their time developing porn games.
The weird part is that Japan also occasionally makes stealth games, and when they DO make stealth games, they’re quite good. The jump from stealth game to immersive sim isn’t that large (since I’d argue that many immersive sims are just “Stealth RPGs”), so I don’t know why they haven’t at least tried it.
Immersive sim is a design philosophy, not a genre. MGS has imsim elements.
>>719618510They didn't have IBM pc's until the late 90's. Before that it was X68000, PC98 or some other weird japanese like PC MSX.
>>719622161>5/6 are shooters
>>719618217>>719619681>better taste = shitty scifi-games with ugly 3D mutt abominations lol
>>719618116"Immersive sim" is the dumbest genre name.
>>719620175It's not a """""""""""""""""""""""genre""""""""""""""""""""""" it's a set of design principles.
>>719646961How is that different from other Video game genres?
>>719642016Armored Core is a mecha sim you dumb face.
>>719647258Stop being an obnoxious idiot and suck some monkey balls.
>>719618116maybe subject matter? Deus Ex didn’t neatly fall into the vein of police/buddy cop action movie, and Thief was just a few steps removed from the easy Fantasy roleplaying experience with the steampunk setting.
>>719642889Fuck that. BS1 is shit. It is full of counterintuitive design choices. The game is design around being careful of ammo yet it leaves a lot lying around. The game encourages exploration but you can't really loot since not only the game lacks an inventory system but you can't even choose what get out of the drawers. Enemies respawn too. It is like the game wants you play a certain way but it is too chicken shit to actually punish you for playing a certain way. It is like that it is trying to a gameplay loop but fucked up all of incentives for it.
