.
>>719622791only on FAILden Ring
misleading animations are part of the difficulty, git gud
>>719622791should have just pressed L2 a few timesthats how you play L2 Ring
>>719622791kek
name 1 good game that relies on reaction dodge/parry
>>719622791>only one attackThat's not how Fromsoft makes bosses anymore. You need like a 6 hit combo.
>>719622936Watch the webm at 6x speed.
>>719622924MGR
>>719622791the NPC walking around in circles after the player dies makes me laugh every time
>>719622791What really happens is the attack pauses for half a second in the middle and then follows through.
>>719622791Remember when Fromsoft's games had more RPG elements and weren't just rollslop boss fights?
what the fuck happened?
>>719623017based
>>719623097yes I remember 2009 and 2011
>>719623017ayy
>>719623017mgr has style so it gets away with italso sam dlc is notorious for its roll slop boss fights
>>719622791This is also expedition 33, in act 3 now and it's getting really tiresome. I imagine the endgame enemies will be even worse.
>>719622814ds3 also has delayed attacks>>719622854Telegraphing is a well established concept, it's only turdsoft and its cultist fans that defend it. It exists to be able by animation when to dodge, even if it's your first time seeing it. forcing you to get hit because the boss decided to hold his hand in the air for 3.58 seconds arbitrarily and then accelerate to mach 3 is bad difficulty.
>>719622791What's missing is one frame of the player starting any action before the hammer instantly slams down
>>719623218Oh god fuck the Clair Obscur enemies.
>>719622924GODHAND
>>719623219>ds3 also has delayed attacksnot nearly to the same extent
>>719623106The demographic shifted from>normal gamer dudes who plays mostly on weekends and takes a month to beat the gameto>troonoid gaymers (also a spedrunners) who instantly memorize frame data, an ability gained from memorizing HRT regimens, and make five hour analysis videos where they read the wikipedia page very slowly
>>719622791That's only Elden Ring
>>719623219dank stank 3 is what started the mess with the focus on speed and removal of poise, yes
>>719622854There are only so many ways you can make "dodge to avoid damage" a hard game. Fromsoft did it by making enemies have physics defying attacks. These are impossible to predict without memorising the enemy, which means lots of dying to enemies and their attacks.If you want games with predictable enemies, you need to play MGR, Sifu, or Vanquish.
>>719623359>>troonoid gaymers (also a spedrunners) who instantly memorize frame data, an ability gained from memorizing HRT regimens, and make five hour analysis videos where they read the wikipedia page very slowlythis doesn't fucking exist
>>719623306*charges up**charges up some more**charges up even more*Fell asleep yet? *Charges up**Sound of slash plays right before the actual slash happens*I NEVER rely on sound in vidya because of shit like this but it still manages to fuck me over
>>719622791Kek it do be like that
>>719623218That is a turn based game, no? How are you failing to dodge turn based attacks?
Truly wild how FromSoft managed to sell Simon Says to zoomers for full price 10 different times by dressing it up in moody medieval art and pretentious writing
>>719623383But it really does. And it's worse than you can imagine
>>719622791>>719622951Ty these were hilarious
>>719622854the point of telegraphing attacks is so you can tell they're coming and avoid them without having to memorize the enemies every move.having irregular windup both makes little sense in-universe, but also is just a cheap way of hitting the player for expecting enemies to follow laws of physics. May as well give the enemy a 1f insta-kill grab and the only way to tell it's coming is from seeing the boss wink twice right beforehand
what annoys me most about the term soulslike is that people act like elden ring and dark souls 1 belong to the same genre, when in actuality they're basically completely different genres. dark souls and demon's souls were games that reward perception skills and intuition. the big creature moves like a big creature, the animal attacks like an animal, you can play the game like an adventurer and use your senses to overcome hardship and not die, and if you do die, that's typically a set back. meanwhile in elden ring, the only "skill" that is rewarded is rote memorization. you go in, are expected to die a couple of times until you've memorized the move set and then iframe to victory. also, since you're expected to die so much, death ends up meaning nothing anymore. it's not even an inconvenience or a setback anymore, just a regular part of the gameplay.these dynamics are so fundamentally different that using a term like soulslike to describe both of these as if they were the same is literally retarded
>>719623427https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj6JbgMdrZo
>>719623570
>>719622791You missed stopping the weapon when 90% of a swing went through for half a second to bait out rolls then finishing that 10% at the same speed with no windup and with updated trajectory
>>719623218Clair Obscur is actually double retarded because it does these delayed attacks but then betrays its own unfair design by giving you sound cues that are so helpful that they make it possible to easily 100% parry attacks you've never even seen before. And the reason this is retarded even though it should be a good thing is because it essentially turns all the fancy animations into nothing more than mere window dressing. You don't even have to look at the screen if you just press the button when the sound cues play.
>>719623219Ppl in 2010s: Dark Souls is so good cause it has readeable animations!Ppl in 2020s: ER is so good cause it's animations are completely unreadeable!Also to add insult to injury, the current Fromsoft hit effect of entiere fucking model shaking like a paper doll after any hit is retarded and harms both readability and weightiness of ALL animations in the games famous for animations.
>>719622791Yeah I hate the attack delay shit. The worst offenders are the omen grabsIt's too obvious they're fighting (you) the player, not your character in the game world
>>719623741>he looked awayyou only have yourself to blame
>>719623586top kek
>>719623570exactly. DeS/ 1/ 2 are survival horror games, 3 onward are essentially kaizo. Crucible knight or bell bearing hunters are completely retarded designs for a single player game.
>>719622854It's a crutch for a shitty barebones combat system that has been stretched past it's breaking point. The hacks at From are unable to write anything new because they still rely on outdated Demon's Souls code.
How PARRYing works in Fromsoft games>you don't click the parry button as soon as your enemy starts his attack animation, but when his weapon is already out in front of him and can be pushed awayHow ROLLing works in Fromsoft games>you don't click the roll button as soon as your enemy starts his attack animation, but when his weapon is already swingingIn Sekiro it works exactly the same. Fromsoft games are not like the Arkham Asylum Games, where the game plays itself. The Death Kanji just means the upcoming attack is not able to be parried or blocked. It does not mean you have to press a button in reflex as soon as it appears. It's really not that complicated.>>719623432That's the thing though. It's explicitly not Simon Says. It's the opposite. It's Simon Says, but Simons might not always Simon Do as you expect Simon Do to Simon Do.
>>719622791>/v/ will continue to bitch about ER until the next mainline FROM title.Not saying ER is perfect by any means, but repeating the same points for 3 years...
>>719623618This one always gets me.
>>719623853crucible knights are the only good enemy type in elden ring because their tells for which attacks can be jumped over are actually clear. I'm still convinced they were the first enemy they designed for the game before they just went "fuck it, this is too much work"
>>719623947which is why rolling used to be a repositioning tool instead of literally just parry with worse reward but easier
>>719623741>see giant devil demon gorilla dog monkey>let it out your sight>wtf how did it get me
>>719624010>Fromsoft making the same game for 20yrs is fine>Talking about it for 3yrs isn'tMake it make sense.
I don't find this to be an issue in that, after the first boss you notice in then you just expect it to be the case going forward and therefore the whole thing gets nullified anyway? I guess the first times you are expecting the telegraphs to be the usual way it may be annoying. Past Limgrave I already knew it was the case so it never really registered for me that it was a thing anymore.
>>719622791same with lies of pee
>>719623668>sound cuesFirst I've heard of it! I've been struggling a lot with it.
>>7196229249 sols
>>719624159yeah it doesn't matter when those fuckers have infinite stamina and poise. I can jump around for half a hour over their attacks and die to a single swing anyway. They are harder than PCR and malenia, cause one has more openings, and another is staggerable. I can solo fucking heolstor and everdark doggie but still eat shit whenether crucible fuck is night 2 boss. Ah and did i mention that he input reads when you attacks and always uses fast slash or tail spin then? Cause he sure does. Like who thought it was a good idea?
>>719623501Pretty sure you're the one imagining it.
>>719622854>Boss can has a four hit combo>At 50% HP they can end this combo early by converting any swing into a delayed instant kill grab>Boss has a big charge move where they raise their sword and channel for a big charge>At 50% HP they have a chance to delay that charge for .5 seconds by sending out an energy wave to stagger you>Boss can be staggered out of certain moves to encourage aggressive play>At 50% HP the boss gains hyper armor on seeming random movesIf Nioh 1 Maria wasn't a total glass cannon she would be complete bullshit, as she is now she's just the hardest boss in the game. At least they actually bothered to change her animations during her phase 2 to reflect that her hitboxes are bigger now, some bosses just gain a particle effect around their weapon and have their swings cover twice as much distance.
>>719622791The problem is that you assume you're meant to react to things.You're meant to spam roll until the unreactable attack animation has happened, then counterattack.
>>719622924Wuchang before patch 1.5
>>719624486He said a good game, not chink shovelware.
>>7196243979 souls was the only game that pulled an ungodly hard final boss but it actually felt fair and interesting to fight and get better at. Fromsoft could never get even close to that level of mastery. Almost like shitty model collision, camera, input lag and input que are major issues for an action game. ER somehow getting shit even worse with some enemies being tall and lanky and your attacks just miss cause you can't get to the belly and hands are constantly moving
>>719624534Sounds like a (you) problem. Radagon, Melia and the Beast were a pretty great set of last bosses.
>>719623668you are supposed to rely on both visual and sound cues, that's what makes it good; sound alone is not always enough
>>719624567wow the bar never been lower. They aren't even the best within their game
>>719624534>your attacks just miss cause you can't get to the belly and hands are constantly movingin some games this would actually be an interesting challenge but fromsoft games are so shallow that there's nothing to the equation beyond hitting or not hitting and enemies just being hard to hit sometimes because they're poorly made.
>>719622924like every ps2 era action game
>>719624486Ah yes, spamming clash, spamming invincible magic or ignoring everything the boss does with axe, truly the peak of skill>b-b-but you have to cripple yourself for the real game
>>719624621It doesn't shock me you aren't even capable of basic english communication, really.
>>719624586I can only think of a single attack that requires vision in order to dodge and that's the attack of the floating ranged dudes in the very first area of the game after the intro
>>719622791Zanzibart taught him well.
>>719623356I agree and should've said it
>>719623097Yes i played Elden Ring and SotE
>>719622924Ghostrunner
>>719624657Can't comment on that because I played with spear.
>>719622791Literally most fights in ER. Mohg always annoyed me with that attack when he's rising his trident very slowly like it weights a tone but in the next move he swings it with lightspeed
>>719624668фopчaн для pyccких
>>719623218It's why interacting with that shit any shape of form is retarded. Just go glass cannon full third person shooter mode and put on some resurrects or shields who cares.Recently played GRIME and all the stgory bosses do this shit too. Giant fucking sword 2 times bigger than the boss who is 5 times bigger than me that he does a giant swing for but oops in the last millisecond he stops and and, is frozen for a second and then does a flick of the wrist which then is the damage you are supposed to parry.Fucking hack gamedesign but at least GRIME devs showed growth with the awesome platform challenges later on while e3 just completely shits the bed and ruins what little writing and gameplay it had going.
>>719624874DS2 actually understood that big means slow
>>719624320Why would they stop making a good game?
>>719622791>he wears armor>he presses a button>he equips weapon>he drank estusyou didn;t beat the game!!! epic wholesome chungus lol lmao!!!
>>719623218>I imagine the endgame enemies will be even worse.act 3 is the endgame
>>719624939ds2 fell flat on its face in many respects but I liked what it was aiming for
>>719622951kek
>>719625004>Armoured Core>Good
>>719622924zzz
>>719625152if you've ever seen a woman walk naked, you know they actually are this jiggly its just clothing stops them or hides it instead of going along with it like here
>Dude just go to the asshole chapel and offer three nutsacks to chunkarunk, force wuit reload, pick up 3 fire papers and use it on the dingus sword (the correct starter weapon)>How were you supposed to know? Read the wiki dude
>>719624939Ah yes, rotating on a record is truly the epitome of movement.
>>719622791skill issue
>enemy throws a feint and you fall for it>WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW WHY DID HE THROW A FEINT OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODi hope they make more games where that shit happens. i want to see people melt.
>>719624827I mean it makes sense, he lifts it slowly because it does weigh a ton, then it's that much faster when he swings it down because the heavier something is the faster gravity accelerates it.
>>719625152this is fucking retarded. she jiggles like she's naked even though she's wearing tight clothes
>>719623403Expedition 33 did a really good job with the aound and it's often more accurate to rely on it than on visual cues.Very rythmic game.
>>719623218You're supposed to listen to the audio cues of the attacks
>>719625340what about the bike tho?
I can't stand their games because of this shit>git gud lolno I won't fuck off
>>719625383feints should probably be physically plausible
>>719625383show me an irl example of a feint where the person feinting leaves themselves open and is fine with getting slashed while they're delaying their att- I mean while they're "feinting"
>>719622924mgr and nioh
>>719624827do you believe in gravity?
>>719622924KH2
>>719622791Literally expedition 33
>>719625148>>Armoured Core>>Good"Yes".
>>719625712oh right... that happened...
>>719622791It's true through, you never dodge based on reaction some bosses you just learn the timing and intuitively dodge which is shit, might as well be a rhythm game at that point.
>>719624397>>719624534Eigong's triple aerial slice during phase 3 is textbook "die to this until you memorize it". Show me one player who nailed that shit on the first or even the second try and I'll just call you or him a liar.Nine Sols managed to make it into my top 10 of favorite games but by fucking golly is the boss attack design the same atrocious shit as fromslop where you don't adapt to the battlefield but rather just memorize everything like you're studying for an exam.
>>719625783If you have to learn the timing, it's not intuitive.
>>719625783and secondly, a rhythm is a steady beat, which IS intuitive.like how can you use words while being completely disconnected from their meanings? literally sub 50 iq.
>>719622791chivalry 2 maul gameplay
>>719624328>Lies of P>Reach 70% of the game>Devs start running out of ideas for difficult encounters >"Hey, what if we make some enemies still attack you even if triggering a stagger?"I liked the game overall, but man that shit was genuinely infuriating and outright horrendous.
>>719625729Nein, it's shit. There's a reason they Soulsified AC6.
>>719625867I think Eigong's phase 3 aerial slashes are the only attacks that break the rules, every other attack in the game is telegraphed clearly enough that you at least know something is coming and can try to parry it by reflex the first time seeing it (except maybe Lady Ethereal's spirit bomb). The slashes are also visually confusing because the first two are instant but the third does that weird delayed animation.>like you're studying for an exam.but that's what makes the bosses compelling. I recently did a playthrough with no skill tree upgrades or jades and the last few bosses taking 5+ minutes each really made me appreciate subtleties in their attacks and how they string together in a way I completely missed when I could just facetank stuff I didn't understand and heal up.
>>719623556Margit (not morgott, he doesn't do that in the fight in leyndell) having a gigantic windup makes sense for his character because his job is to hunt tarnished.
>>719626381>Margit (not morgotti never forgive that narcissist for putting his initials all over every story character, dude didnt write a single line of code but thinks that shit is acceptable. Because of this "never finishing my books cause you hurt my feels" moron the game is just a tiny bit worse than it otherwise would be.Played through it two times and still confuse some of the names, margit, morgott, ,margot, godrick, godfrey, godwin, gotfuckingdamnit, faggot. what a joke
>>719625383Faints are ice and cool because they still abide to inworld physics and reward patience+really good reaction timing.>>719625419If it was rythmic then you could listen to the beat. It is not that type of game.
>>719626273The lesson learned here is that staggers are dumb and a clutch for a proper reactive battle system.
>>719625152He said games. He said good.
>>719623556>May as well give the enemy a 1f insta-kill grab and the only way to tell it's coming is from seeing the boss wink twice right beforehandhey thats how mike tyson fights in punch out
>>719622924UNIRONICALLY Hollow Knight's bosses.
>>719623618I have audibly laughed at this half a dozen times
>>719625340Has he trooned out yet?
>>719622924Clair Obscure: Expedition 33
>>719623618This is the only good thing that came out of Elden Ring
>>719622854>input reading is part of the game git gud
>>719624567lollmao evenplay some good action games
>>719622791Fromdrones will defend rollslop and delayed shit with their life because they can't react fast enough to do parries and fast paced dodge combat in other games. Rolling around like a retard is literally the slowest shit ever
>>719623432have you ever played Simon Says or just love to repeat retarded takes from your favourite e-celeb? Have you also ever played FS games?God the current generation of gaymers are retarded as fuck, no wonder all we get are remakes, remasters and ubislop.
>>719628804>ubislopYeah, like ER
>>719626290>I think Eigong's phase 3 aerial slashes are the only attacks that break the rulesJiequan has a double spear thrust that you will in no way see coming without getting poked by it. Don't make me go through every boss, lad.>but that's what makes the bosses compelling.Maybe for you. Not for me. I prefer my bosses to feel like I'm fighting for my life against an overwhelming foe rather than trying to ace a quiz.
>>719622791
>>719629501gundyr if he elden ring dlc
>>719629501why didn't the player just wait for his turn?
>>719628908>inb4 i´m only pretending to be retarded
>>719629501skill issue
>>719625867That boss attack is one of the only in the game that is just fucked and needs redesignedComes from offscreen and visually looks like somebody threw an overlay on the screen so it's tough to predict. When I beat the boss I still never was able to consistently parry it, just got lucky.
4 years later and still malding about morgott
>>719630013why would time passing change how people judge bad design?
>>719630142Not being able to improve in 4 years means that games aren't for you
>>719629665its the learning phase, brohes gotta attack at every move at every angle to know when its his turn
>>719630191why would the game suddenly improve over the course of 4 years?
>>719630238Repeating yourself only means you have no legitimate argument
>>719630316NTA, but you never presented an argument yourself.
>>719622924Jackie Chan
>>719622791Looks more like Expedition 33
>>719623017Dragons dogma tier The game is mid as fuck it’s only relevant because shitty memes
Triple down shitpost is crazy work
>>719622854This is literally artificial difficulty and trial and error gameplay because it's impossitble to get it right the first time.
>>719623432holy fucken retard new fag. You completely missed what's happening here and have no idea wtf you are talking about. kill yourself retarded NPC monkey faggot
>>719622854There's nothing to get good about it anymore, since it's not about dexterity or your build, and only about memorizing attack patterns, when you make an unreadable animation your only choice is to memorize it.
>>719630629That's pretty much what's happening, the player made an assumption that the boss is about to hit based on the animation, but the boss didn't say "Simon Says" so the player failed, you're just mad because you fell for it 10 times
>>719623618>annoying the player is funny lulz
>>719623642Never happened.
>>719625340This kind of shit is what made Fromsoft fume so much they added all those faggy feints.
>>719623618T-t-t-t-that's all folks!
>>719622791>elden dogshit ruining the legacy of old souls gamesvery nice
Remember when "dodging" was about not being where the attack hits, rather than i-frame bullshitting right through a supernova?
>>719625680People really sleep on how good KH2.5 is. 1 and 2 are the only great entries in the series, with 1 being somewhat tanky. 2 holds up so well though. t. Beat 3 or 4 Data Orgs on Critical.
>>719623017/thread
>>719633852he gamin'
>>719633532seriously tho why is it the elite knight instead of the tardnished, literal slander
>>719633182The Hoarah Laux grab is pretty much that, isn't it?
>>719622924For Honor
>>719623947sauce
>>719633738>positioning? what's that? have some more instant gapclose and input reading ranged punishers
>>719625406>>719625650Have you ever swung a sledgehammer? Gravity doesn't work like that.
>>719625383why are brainless zombies and animals using feints? cope harder retard
>>719622791that's expedition 33 in a nutshell
>>719623556damn i didnt expect the master boss fighter character to feint me, the player
>>719625406Made me chuckle, thanks anon.
>>719625383>my 5-ton swords that made your screen shake on impact are planted firmly in the ground>haha actually it was a faint and i will lift them with outstretched arms and slam them down again at a 90° angle in 100 millisecondstheir top priority was tricking the player, the fact that it made the game asinine and annoying didn't occur to them because they're shit game designers
>>719623341Are you up for my challenge?
>>719624412NTA those people are real
>>719625152I love Trigger so much bros. Prime wife material with a fat ass to boot.
>>719622791https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/image/wN1qVavqKRy1s8dBJJ1EyA
>>719627532That's true, except for most of them you're dancing around like a monkey, waiting for your turn to do something. Horrible shit.
>>719624412My definitely autistic buddy enjoyed fighting Midir with his bare fists on soul level 1 for 3 hours. He's also one of the biggest fromsoft defenders and copes about anything they do.>cerulean coast and chiaro's hidden grave are empty? people just cannot appreciate the beautiful landmarks>mfw the biggest difference between them is the colour of the flowersSo yeah, these people definitely exist.
>>719630376>die to boss>the game is bad, I shouldnt have diedWhatever paragraphs you have to explain yourself, its still the same retarded cope.
>>719635126>Enjoying videogames is... le bad!
>>719622924Elden Ring
>>719635027I respect your personal taste if you don't enjoy that, but dance-style boss fights are a perfectly legitimate way of doing them. Learning the dance until you can run rings round the boss sneaking in cheeky hits here and there can be very satisfying.
>>719623359Truth nuke
>>719623570>they're basically completely different genresno. games within the same genre can be vastly different.
>>719623432>games are just pattern recognition>u push buttan and thing happanYeah, no shit, retard.
>>719635219nice strawman, nigger.
>>719624567Elden Beast is boring as hell. One of the worst fights From has ever made..
>>719622951Panicrolling at its finest,
I prefer the demon/dark formula where you're punished with going back to a checkpoint but it's balanced with the bosses not being spastic
>>719625406>the heavier something is the faster gravity accelerates it.this nigga failed physics
>>719622951It dobee like dis
>>719636779Drop a kilogram of steel and a kilogram of feathers and tell me which one hits the ground first
>>719622791you're supposed to have good reaction times not memorize patterns
>>719637052the steelbecause steel is heavier than feathers
In Dark Souls 3 the majority of enemies having "fair" swing timings where they immediately follow through eventually led to gameplay where you just spam roll when you see the windup and that usually works. It's fine, but at a certain point it stops being very interesting if you've played it before. Gael was the final challenge of the souls series and I've known a lot of people to beat him on their first try just mashing that circle button. If your series is known for difficulty it makes sense to escalate a little more, and in this game they made it so that boss patterns really have to be learned rather than pretty much ignored. It's annoying if you insist on playing it like dark souls 3 where you rollslop everything but if you're willing to bring a shield so you can play safe until you understand what the boss is doing (like you were encouraged to do in older games in the series) it's ok
>>719637052Steel, because feathers have more surface area for air resistance act on.
>>719637486
>>719637052The feather, a romanian stole the steel before it hit the ground.
>>719623218you will literally never get hit if you listen to the sounds, game was easy as fuck
>enemy explodes the entire map>the explosion will completely engulf you no matter where you are>roll at the last second>you are completely unharmed from a nuclear explosioniframes was a mistake
>>719623383>>719624412legit newfag
>>719623218E33 has the same audio cue at the same timing before every single hit
>>719637740So HRT gives you super powers?
Souls games were always dogshit rollslop with terrible ui, unventory systems and having to hold down two buttons for a jump and I'm proud at having recognized it immediately and not have fallen for the marketing at any point. It's hilarious that it took you retards the better part of a decade to realize that.
>>719638518its the super powers that cause you to take hrt and be good at games, to put it simply a neuroatypical will be, well, atypical
>>719638762mental illness is not super powers
>>719637486>and in this game they made it so that boss patterns really have to be learned rather than pretty much ignoredmy issue is that in shadow of the erdtree, the bosses were so fucking high on crack that I had no time to cast spellsI gave up trying to actually cast shit when soloing them, put magic affinity on a sword and just poked them to death by learning the patternsit's not really that fun when the game kinda railroads you, although coop is fine for casting spells
>>719638897it can be in a wayyou really think a psychopath can't use his illness to his advantage? there's also the idiot savants who are basically retarded but can do one thing extremely wellso yes it can be in fact a super power
>>719622791just block?
>>719623341You can find me at the... CLUB!
>>719622791this is literally Expedition 33
