https://archive.today/pf6CWTim Sweeney blames ongoing issues with games developed using UE5 on a lack of optimization for low-spec hardware early on in dev cycle.>Metal Gear Solid Delta is the latest Unreal Engine 5 game to be suffering from big performance issues>It appears as though any fears that you'll need to upgrade to the best graphics card from our buying guide to play these new games are unfounded, and instead, there is simply more work to be done on optimizing games for low-spec hardware.>Speaking on the problems after Unreal Fest in South Korea in an interview translated by Clawsomegamer, he states "the main cause is the order of development," and further clarifies this by saying "many studios build for top-tier hardware first and leave optimization and low-spec testing for the end.">In short, developers are too focused on appeasing gamers with high-end gaming PCs or consoles, and everyone else is suffering as a result.>In the meantime, Sweeney confirms that more support is coming to developers using Unreal Engine 5, including "automated optimization across devices" as well as "expanding developer education" to ensure that optimizing early "becomes standard practice.">Games such as Fortnite, Valorant, and Dead by Daylight have also made the switch seemingly without issue, so the main concerns appear to be with games fully developed for the first time using Unreal Engine 5.
>the entire industry can't optimize, it's not my engine's faultEvery UE5 game has issues unless you bruteforce with the best cpu and gpu on the market, and even then you'll have issues, to a lesser extent.
If every single developer has the same problem then the tools are flawed.
>>719630383Does Fortnite even run well?
>>719630850Fortnite is unironically one of the most intensive battle royale games to play
>>719630758it's the jeets.
>>719630383I've played this game all weekend on my 4070 super PC and have not problems.
>>719630850no lol it has the same issues as every UE5 game. for a sanity check if its your PC or the dev, go play fortnite. all of UE5s issues are exacerbated by fortnite since it relies on custom content & frequent updates that's a fucking nightmare from a shader pso generation perspective. unreal engine 5 can't reliably capture all shaders generated even if you 100% a singleplayer game. its a engine flaw as you dont see this issue in doom eternal or death stranding on pc. they play immediately with zero stutter and have you seen a 10+ minute shader screen like other games?
>>719631159oh yes 4070 super pc very good sir not problems
timmy admitted sometime ago that the shader cache system in unreal is flawed and it wont be fixed until witcher 4
>>719631546You know shit's fucked when they have to reach out to other devs for it.
He's right, optimisation isn't something you do at the end. You need to build it from the ground up to be optimal.
>>719631643Microsoft is actually fixing their problem for them. With Advanced Shader Delivery they just download shaders like Steam does for Vulkan games. It's a workaround to a shitty game engine problem. The game should be able to compile all that you need right away but games are so slow and bloated they're offloading the work to the cloud and making you download more.
>>719631323lol
>>719631643shits fucked when devs are running back to unreal engine 4 instead of using unreal engine 5.
>>719631802i thought shaders are specific to every hardware configuration
>>719630383>Makes the worst engine in the industry>Brings console wars to PC>Rapes dozens of IPs in his gay little battle royaleHas this twerp done ANYTHING good?
>>719631323>>719631884Why do you get mad and create scapegoats with people who have decent -good PC's that aren't having issues?
>>719632546>ruins an industry>makes a buttfuck ton of money doing itIf only I had the IQ to do the same.Absolutely based
>>719632301I believe that Steam just crowdsources the compiled shaders from other users that have the same setup and have already compiled the shaders before you event downloaded the game. Its a DX12/Vulkan problem more than a specific game engine problem, though.
>>719632546You wouldn't say these if you were Epic's shareholder
>>719632301for directx yes. in vulkan shaders can be shared. for a long time people were sharing dxvk shaders to fix stutter in apex and unreal games. this is made obsolete by graphics pipeline library and steam shader download.
>>719630383Is all the ghosting and blurry shit also not Epics fault?
>>719630758Those """developers""" shouldn't be using UE5, but they will because they're not actually talented.
>>719630383From the developer's perspective, there is no problem; they targeted 30FPS on PS5
>>719632954If you remember when everyone on /v/ was playing BOTW on CEMU, the only way to play without lag was to use someone elses shaders. People uploaded it here or on Reddit.
>>719630383Isn't Fortnite also a stuttery mess these days?
>>719633132scroll up
>>7196303836600 xt here, had no problem apart from a bit of ghosting until i turned TSR off. I don't know what everyone's complaining about.
>>719632695>thread about optimizations for lower spec PC's>DURRR IT RUNS FINE ON MY 1000 DOLLAR PC HURRRR
>>719633181looks worse and runs worse than mgs5. a game thats 10 years old.
>>719631175The problem is inherent to Nanite and Lumen. UE5 games that don't make use of these pretty much don't suffer any stuttering or performance problems. Hell, if you turn off Nanite and Lumen in these games, all of the problems vanish.
>>719631175was this always the case? back when it was on UE4 I remember it running pretty smoothly
>>719633223Dude, there is no such thing as optimization for lower spec PCs, it was done a few times, by devs who really wanted to sell every copy possible. Most of the time, devs just ship the console version with options. Back in the days, PCs were way more powerful than current consoles, not anymore. The average PC can run a game from ps5 in 1080p with DLSS in quality mode to achieve 60FPS
>>719633383the star wars jedi games have fucking terrible stutter on pc and they're both unreal engine 4. the only fix to this day is force the games to run dx11 and use dxvk.>>719633327wuthering waves have these same stutter problems in unreal 4 as well. with or without rt.
>>719633571>1080p with DLSS in quality mode to achieve 60FPSI don't use AI fake frameslop.
>>719633223$1,000 PC is at best lower mid grade these days.
>>719630383He's right but the engine's features are heavily encouraging lack of optimization in favor of getting stuff done fast, like Lumen.>play Abiotic Factor>visibly polygonal, inspired by Half-Life 1>somewhat inconsistent 40-50FPS on the lowest graphical settings on a GTX 970, which otherwise handles a lot of realistic-looking games at max settings at a good framerate such as Mad Max, Watch Dogs, Arkham etc.>turn off global illumination (Lumen settings that includes software-rendering raytraced lights) in the settings>game looks genuinely worse because it relied on the lights as part of its general environment but gain 30FPSI hope they take some time to optimize the game. Doesn't Threat Interactive have a lot of videos about how to optimize UE5?
>>719633571Yeah, those people need to be on consoles. This is why PC gaming went to shit sometimes around 2012-2014. Retarded 3rd worlders started getting them.
>>719633240>looks worse and runs worse than mgs5sure buddy
>>719633571>muh dlssIt's a gimmick, useless for fast paced games.
>>719630383>UE5 has no problems that's fake news!>UE5 has some problems but that's your old hardware!>UE5 has problems but thats developer's fault!what's next on timmy tencent's master plan
>>719632301Microsoft has the infrastructure to do something like this over the cloud
>>719632546>Has this twerp done ANYTHING good?be the only sane engine and use Z up
The REDengine is a mess under the hood, sure, but goddamn does cyberpunk run like a dream, ive never had any stutters that were consistent or annoyingly noticeable.Its makes me sad theyre ditching for unreal, i just hope they somehow pull it together.Ive still yet to have a truly great experience with unreal 5, only passable ones.Games i THOUGHT were unreal 5 are actually unreal 4, like lies of p and hi fi rush.Tokyo xtreme racer is the one ue5 game that i can say is smooth, but only if you turn lighting settings down so lumen isnt forced on fucking up performance.And even then it still has minor dips when you drive through the section with all the buildings.And it doesnt even look good graphically, it's fucking seventh gen level.
>>719633724Why would anyone take Threat Interactive seriously? He asks for donations and hasn’t released a game yet, lol. He doesn’t even have game industry experience; he’s literally fresh out of high school. Kek.
>>719630383i think some some really smart programmers can at least alleviate the issues so he's kinda right in a way, but at the same time, epic games very deliberately markets the engine as something you don't NEED any programming knowledge to use. their marketing spiel emphasizes that you can have artists and designers write blueprint scripts, when usually that job should go to actual programmers who know what they're doing. the resulting effect is that a ton of unreal games have a lot of main thread congestion because the blueprint script usage is so crap
>>719630697I have an example of a couple of games where there aren't performance issues.>The Finals>Arc RaidersEmbark, for whatever reason, can manage to make a game with UE5 that runs well, what's doubly odd is that they're primarily made up of the best members of ex-DICE developers who were not known for smooth game releases.
>>719630758Is it realities' fault that pigs can't fly?
>>719633920I know he gets shitposted a lot on /v/ but I did find the videos interesting because he's been talking about something that bothered me for a longer amount of time; games not really looking all that different from before but barely running on my outdated GPU anyway. Had to turn down the resolution to play Cyberpunk 2077, Starfield was running at around 20 or 30FPS while Fallout 4 was running at the capped 60FPS, Outcast: A New Beginning had pretty poor framerates on minimum, all of them are comparable to 2012-2016 games I've played graphics-wise which ran fine on my end. He seems to only talk about Unreal Engine 5 but you know, I support any endeavor that gets devs to make their games run better. I don't know if he's going to pull off making UE5 more performant but I hope he does, I think it's kind of a similar problem with Unity, Unity had shit performance from time to time and the problem was usually rookie developers not knowing how to optimize, but with UE5 it's seemingly entire big studios. IIRC Everspace 2 switched from Unreal Engine 4 to Unreal Engine 5 after release and it runs pretty well.
>>719632546why hasnt he died yet?
>>719634098Exactly and the only reason why they didn't launch their BF games smoothly is because fucking EA forced them to release their shit unfinished so they can compete with CoD while Activision have hundreds more developers working on Call of Duty otherwise DICE would have never released BF4 at this stage
>>719634098dice has always had pretty godly optimization and graphics guys, it's netcode and stability that they somewhat struggle with. also UI but apparently that is because the frostbite engine is terrible regarding UI
>>719630383it's also nvidia's fault with their lackluster drivers.>use AMD>play fortnite with friends (or any UE5 game for that matter)>they all use nvidia and have constant issues>have had zero issues myselfthe fact that most people use nvidia means that the issue becomes widespread, where people then believe that it is the engine at fault, but truth is that it's the fault of nvidia. i have literally never had any issues with UE5 games.i played through all of mgs delta with zero issues, constant 60 fps with max settings at 1440p with my 7900gre. then i watched a streamer play it, they crashed numerous times all through their playthrough because they use a 5080. people blame the engine, but it's 100% because of nvidia.
>>719634098The Finals isn't pretty optimized but at least the server-based processing means PC CPUs don't have to do the bulk of processing how objects break, I believe.
>>719630697>the entire industry can't optimize, it's not my engine's faultBoth are believable.
>>719630383Fortnite still stutters no matter the PC
>>719630383>developers are too focused on appeasing gamers with high-end gaming PCs or consolesfuckinglmaothe games run like shit on console too. this shit only appeals to investors that watch trailers
>>719630383>automated optimization across devicesmore smearing and upscaling and ghost frames and nonsensical SSR
>>719634362It's an RTGI issue. It prevents light and shadow spilling but very hardware intensive to compute. Starfield also has volumetric lighting and dynamic real time cubemap reflections you can't turn off. Cyberpunk also does all these things to a lesser degree, it uses some baked shading here and there to improve performance a bit. The problem is the target console nowadays is too powerful, and 30/60 fps is still the standard target rather than 120+ fps.UE5 games are a whole new can of worms though. Those games above are running low fps, but at least it's consistent and not stuttery. Lumens and nanite will make your game stutter up the ass.
Unreal engine causes poor performance because it keeps adding blurs as marketing gimicks and then the companies pass this on to the customer in the same way. Just turn off the dozen blurs and every game will look better and play better. I've seen people bitch about game performance for Stranger of Paradise and Elden Ring when I played both of those with no issue on a 1050Ti.
>>719633108this is as far as optimization goes. runs at over 20FPS on console "usually"? ship it.
I've noticed the only people who ever complain about issues with UE5 games use Nvidia GPU's. Why blame Epic when you should be complaining to Nvidia?
>>719633571>there is no such thing as optimization for lower spec PCsindie devs do it all the time. Wube thrives on optimization.
>>719634405>there is literally always a new CoD game>devs were rushed in order to compete with CoD?????
>>719630383He's right. Again.
>>719631175>people complaining are just extremely autisticI never had any idea what people were complaining about but your video helps clarify it.
>>719635819compare the size to the dev teams, retard. Acti had like 5 studios working on the next COD game, while DICE was mostly working alone on the next BF game. No wonder they all got sick of EA's bullshit, left the company and created Embark now working on The Finals and Arc Raiders. The DICE working at EA now is not the same DICE that made BF3 and BF4, most of the talent left this hellhole a long time ago
>>719630383>not Epic's faultHe's not wrong.Most devs using UE just use it as-is out of the box. That's stupid. If you're doing a major project, you need to customize it to fit your needs. Same goes with Unity.Those Chinese gacha games that run on Unity are using heavily modified engines. Kind of like how the Creation engine started out as Gamebryo, and how Lumberyard became StarEngine (for Scam Citizen).The tools are only as good as the people using them. Consider that most devs don't even understand that, when possible, you work in squared space to avoid square root operators, and that you declare variable outside of loops. I would wager a LOT of money that the shitty performing games suffer from the most basic programming pitfalls.
>>719630383He cant say that, thats racist
>>719630383they're not wrong but I think people were trying to use UE5 for everything before hey were ready
>>719630383imagine having sweeney as your last name
>>719633724I still don't understand why a game like Abiotic Factor was even using lumen to begin with.
>>719631546maybe they should hire the optimization guy from youtube, he says he only needs 900k to fix it
>>719636587imagine insulting someone like a 7 year old in your free time lmao
>>719630850Stop noticing things!
>>719630383>it's the developers, not our bloated engine aimed for easier development>we'll be releasing "automated optimizations" as wellI'm a retard who knows next to nothing about game development, but seems like a case of the engine being quite demanding even on modern hardware, and devs not knowing how to tinker with it in favor of Epic making it more accessible for developing, because this shit is not only happening with just one game, but several. Probably lots of jeet/outsourcing coding as well.
>>719638027It's not the people who use UE5. It's just UE5. Fornite, the game from the developers of UE5, runs like shit. They can't even optimize their own shitty engine.
>>719630850To no. I have an amd card. It used to he fine some years ago but I tried it recently and shit was unplayable.
>>719630383UE5 is inherently flawed
>>719630697>>719634098tokyo extreme racer runs fine on below minimum hardware and that's ue5
>>719632546he finished his online store yet?
The irony is that while MGS Delta is unreasonably demanding on the GPU, fucked up particles aside, it's actually smooth to play if you can reach 60 fps.The game doesn't have typical Unreal Engine stutters on PC.
>>719638590It's nearing the levels of random online stores in the year 2000. It is coming along.
UE5 is movie CGI rendering engine that had to be worked bakwards into a game engine.
>>719639137So it hitting a cinematic 24 fps in every game is a feature.
>>719630383I will continue to blame Epic and remind peolle that Unreal Engine is shit. The fuck timmy gon do?
>>719638509Don't kid yourself, TXR runs like dogshit especially considering how it looks. Time also gets fucked up if your frame rate dips.
>>719638446Griefer.
>Devs and Epic both coping and playing the blame game because performance has gotten so shit we're simpoley not buying the games anymoreWatching the industry crumble post-COVID with you all has been a delight and a pleasure. I wish I could back in time and tell >2011 /v/ that we won in the end
>>719639672I have global illumination turned off so it runs fine thoughbeit
>>719638951 So it's only three decades behind Amazon now, impressive. At this rate he'll beat out GeoCities by 2030. Maybe next update he'll add a functional search bar that doesn't brick the site.
>>719633612yeah people try to blame these stuttering issues on ue5/dx12 when ue has had these issues for over a decade. ue3 is where the traversal stuttering started and ue4 is where the shader stuttering started.. ue5 is where all the issues of the engine that were ignored over the years all combine into a shitshow
>>719630850I still have a 2080 and fortnite runs fine. The start of the match lags due to all the people jumping off the bus but after that its a smooth 60fps. I havent died to lag in a long time at least in fortnite
>>719632546>Brings console wars to PCPC fanboys have been doing their platform warring for ages with Steam Machines, Steam VR, Steam Deck. Zealots, buncha of them. PCMR trooning out because EpicGameStore had Kingdom Hearts exclusivity PC was funny but par the course for the average 55 and poorly aging PC fanboy.
>>719630383What if it's everyone's fault and the industry is filled with incompetent retards?
>>719633920>T. Timmy
>>719641584>saaaaaaaaarrrrrr no not redeem the steam code caaar consoling wars are of always being on PC befoer epics game store!
>>719630383He's right. It's the most popular engine so a lot of developers use it. They're also pushed by middle management fucks to meet impossible deadlines and/or are just inept. A lot of devs can optimize just fine while some can't. Obviously it's a lot more noticable when a game just doesn't run properly. It doesn't help that those manager fucks also decide to "just ship it and fix it later".
>>719630697Palworld runs fine and it's made by amatures. I have a huge base with 30 pals and there's no lag or stuttering. Satisfactory runs fine too.
>>719642032Palworld definitely does not run fine, that shit is a stuttery mess when you're riding any pal that moves faster than a snail's pace, and god help you if you have more than one base.
>>719630697>>719630758>every ue5 game launches with shit performance>every ue5 has at least 5 UNREAL ENGINE PERFORMANCE FIX MODS>above "mods" are just some engine.ini configuration files in most cases>above "mods" works and makes the game playable going from sub 40 fps with dips to 60+ stable fps without shitting much on graphics qualityYou mean to tell me that it's Unreal Engines fault that all these AAA devs who spent gorillions in game development couldn't be arsed to write together a fucking ini setting file that lone modders can cobble together within 1 day of the games release?fuck off incompetent game devs, you guys deserve all the shit and quality related negative reviews that the game gets.
>>719642032There's some areas in palworld that just tanks my fps and I'm not sure why. Never bothered to dig into it. Even lowering settings does fuck all for my fps.
>>719642172Get a better cpu. Game runs smooth for me with a 9900x and I have multiple large bases that are fully stocked. The only place where I notice a framerate dip is west of the small settlement where the land is covered in purple flowers but it's only a slight dip
>>719642412>unless you bruteforce with the best cpu and gpu on the market
>>7196424489900x is not the best cpu on the market. That's the 9800x3d. The 9900x actually has worse single core performance. Palworld is a game where you need a good cpu and good memory performance because it has to manage the logic of a lot of ai controlled actors at all times.
>>719642021>A lot of devs can optimize just fine while some can't. Obviously it's a lot more noticable when a game just doesn't run properly.>It doesn't help that those manager fucks also decide to "just ship it and fix it later".my gut tells me that in most of these companies, the management actively dislikes the devs that are concerned over performance, stability, etc. because it comes off to them as needless doomsayer shit or them attempting to dodge work>"id like to take a week to review the differences of our 2 most recent builds by profiling and debugging the CPU usage graph"sounds like>"id like to put new features on hold for a week"especially since half the time there's nothing really you can do about the performance because it's already as optimized as it can reasonably be (aside from completely pulling features out)
>>719642667>9900x is not the best cpu on the market.It's still a high-end modern CPU that trades blows with the tip top of any CPU that's not a 3D cache CPU.Palworld is not a game that should need such a powerful CPU for a smooth experience, the engine sucks dude, stop it.
>>719632546He realized he can't beat Steam in the PC market, so he decided to just fucking destroy it instead from the inside.You may not like it, but that's pretty based.
>>719642865It's the design of the game. Managing npc behavior has nothing to do with rendering. If the game was made in unity it would still need a good cpu and memory to handle all the pals working like that. Dragon's Dogma 2 had the same issue in cities because Capcom made them so dense with completely scheduled npcs and that game runs on RE Engine. The Witcher 3 do not have complex npcs it ran fine with weaker CPUs
>>719630383>>719630697Don't get me wrong, UE5 is a piece of shit, but I kind of understand his point.Devs have been shit at optimising games for yonks now. Always including some of the least important shit like ray tracing or whatever, but then doing other stupid shit like not compressing textures or music files to have decent file sizes. Games seem to just balloon in size because optimising games is increasingly becoming a lost art. There's definitely a skill issue, to a certain extent. But it also doesn't help UE5 is shit to begin with.
>>719642809They do because management doesn't care about the actual game. What they do want are tangible achievements they can put on their toilet paper resumes. Features are shit they can put on their resume and explain. Stability is not tangible to them, they can't accurately describe it beyond "it plays fine". They're self-serving assholes most of the time.
>>719643171The game still runs like shit even without a big base with lots of pals, and it's not like their pathfinding is anything advanced or particularly intensive.Arma 3 has more advanced pathfinding for NPCs than just about any modern UE5 game and it runs miles better.And RE Engine also sucks for open world games, since it was clearly designed for the small environments in RE games.When even the creators of the engine itself can't get their flagship game running well on it, that tells me that the engine is the problem, unless Epic is implying that they themselves are also incompetent.
>>719630697No, I believe himThere are multiple games that run fine on UE5. If one company can do it, then so can everyone else
>>719643293>Devs have been shit at optimising games for yonks now. Always including some of the least important shit like ray tracing or whateverUE5 exacerbates that because the engine is literally designed to facilitate lazy devs who don't want to optimize.That is basically the entire point of lumen and nanite, the former allows devs to skip optimizing their lighting systems while the latter allows devs to skip optimizing their LoD systems.It's why so many UE5 games look like PS3 games once you disable lumen/nanite.
>>719643513Palworld runs perfectly fine even on a midrange gpu. If you want to use features that stress the cpu then use a better cpu. It's not just pathing that needs to be manage but also behavior based on dynamic values like hunger, stress, time of day, workspeed, modifiers from abilities etc.Dragon's dogma 2 runs perfectly fine outside of cities. The only drop in fps occurs in cities and you can actually improve performance by killing all tbe npcs.Fotnite gets 100 fps on laptop igpus. I'd say that's running well and good for the target audience
>>719643956>Palworld runs perfectly fine even on a midrange gpu.Ehh, it runs better than most UE5slop, but it's not particularly impressive. The game's visuals are solidly on par with an AA game from 2015/2016, I'd say they at their absolute best they look about as good as open world games from around that time like Dying Light, and at their worst they look like a PS3 game (most of the instanced dungeons for example look pretty bad, even completely maxed out).>It's not just pathing that needs to be manage but also behavior based on dynamic values like hunger, stress, time of day, workspeed, modifiers from abilities etc.None of those should be CPU-intensive, it's not 1999 anymore.>Fotnite gets 100 fps on laptop igpus.Maybe on minimum settings where it has to look like the original Outcast, if you want to actually use the fancy UE5 features the game runs like shit. And it still stutters like a motherfucker regardless of the settings you run it on, because UE5 sucks.It's fine that the engine allows small devs to make games that they otherwise couldn't, but the games run like shit, even the ones made by the same guys who created the engine, so clearly the engine is to blame.
>>719642667>9900x is not the best cpu on the market.mate, that is still a ridiculously good chip that you can;t expect most users to havefrom what I've seen working in a computer shop and independantly doing repairs is that most people don't even go as high as like a 7700X, they will settle for something like a generation older 5600x instead. People like you, or me with a 7800X3D are people who are seriously into the hobby go for higher end stuff so often that it's easy to look at you 9900X and think "it's not that good" because you know what the top-end should look and perform like, so our perception is that anything below a 7600 is not even worth buying, but for most people that is what they get (pre-builts, etc) and the companies need to balance around that
>>719636134*unless you're sorting through a list of array
>>719630758Yes saar we are good developers!
>>719644305Palworld doesn't look that good because it's made by like a dozen people while AAA games have hundreda of artista making custom assets. In 1999 the npcs would be completely static moving only when their schedules tell them to.Fortnite runs fine even with lumen enabled in my experience. The stuttering has to do with the Dx12 shader cache and conflicts with Nvidia's DLSS. Microstutters can sometimes happen when the game loads low poly characters to high poly. There are fixes for them but it's a multifaceted issue so you'll need to try multiple things to isolate it.
>>719630697Wuwa has gigantic open world and worked flawlessly with lots of bells and whistles (before I uninstalled it).
>>719645671>Palworld doesn't look that good because it's made by like a dozen people while AAA games have hundreda of artista making custom assets.Sure, which I'm fine with, and I'd probably be more fine with it if the game ran well and the engine didn't suck.>In 1999 the npcs would be completely static moving only when their schedules tell them to.Mmm, no, Ultima Underworld had this completely figured out in 1992.>Fortnite runs fine even with lumen enabled in my experience. The stuttering has to do with the Dx12 shader cache and conflicts with Nvidia's DLSS. Microstutters can sometimes happen when the game loads low poly characters to high poly. A game with lots of microstutter and shader cache stutter is a game that runs like shit.Period.And no, it's not DLSS causing it.
>>719645902Wuwa runs on UE4.Like all the recent well-optimized "UE5" games (Stellar Blade, Lies of P, Delta Force, etc. etc.)
>>719630697even something very low quality graphics wise like the new TXR runs extremely bad because of UE5, the engine is just bad.
>>719630968https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEZsGUqgtHQ
>>719633916>The REDengine is a mess under the hood, sure, but goddamn does cyberpunk run like a dream, ive never had any stutters that were consistent or annoyingly noticeable.>Its makes me sad theyre ditching for unreal, i just hope they somehow pull it together.REDengine was the most impressive proprietary engine in the modern gaming space. It looked amazing, ran well, had no stutters or graphical issues, was highly customizable to run well on a multitude of systems. I hate the fact that CDPR is ditching it just because it has bugs, as if any other fucking open world RPG in the last 25 years hasn't had bugs.>>719633916>Tokyo xtreme racer is the one ue5 game that i can say is smooth, but only if you turn lighting settings down so lumen isnt forced on fucking up performance.TXR is the prime example that UE5 does not work in any context. This fucking game looks worse than TXR3 but runs at 40fps on my fucking 3090 at 1080p, EXCUSE ME?
>>719646068ue5 is just ue4 with nanite. lumen is not a problem as long as it's not in software mode.>>719645920>DLSSFrame gen can make some issues much worse.
>>719646374>ue5 is just ue4 with naniteUE5 and UE4 literally use a completely different physics engine.
>>719646374UE5 is completely different from UE4. The only problem UE4 had is games around 2019-2021 throwing very advanced shaders at the engine which had some slowdown unless ur shader compilation was very extensive. Most UE4 games ran like a dream on even low end hardware of the time.Also, by DLSS, the anon you replied to means just the upscaling part, and DLSS upscaling has literally no relevance on stutters or frametimes.
>>719630383>License our engine to devs who don't know what they're doing>Bad optimization is their faultNo shit. And who gave them the license? If you don't want to be associated with shit optimization, don't license to shit devs. Epic specifically advertises their engine to be retard friendly and doesn't like the reputation they've gained from it. You can't have it both ways. Regardless, it's funny that UE5's poor reputation has filtered down even to normalfags based on comment sections I've seen
>>719646902Normalfags don't know what an engine is. Those comments are just light internet dwellers (people who think Reddit account for 80% of the entire web).
Why is Reddit so hellbent on pushing this "UE5 is... LE BAD!" shit?
>>719630758every single developer has jeets
>>719647228They do because they see a big fat logo for it every time they boot a game optimized like shit. Even the dumbest of people form basic associations
>>719645920>ultima underworldThat is a 2d game with fake 3d graphics. Npcs are a lot simpler in older games
>>719647452Dude the average /r/PCMR and /r/PiratedGames PC build like nsilvias is on a 11 year old GPU.
>>719648345>That is a 2d game with fake 3d graphicsUltima Underworld does have 3D elements and actual texture mapping of 3D polygonal objects, they're just not as advanced as modern 3D since it's over 30 years old and ran on CPUs weaker than what's found in a modern kitchen scale.
>>719645019https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam The average PC master racer has less than 8GB VRAM (which is not enough for 1080p High native) and monitor resolutions below 4K. In addition to that, 50% of Steam users don't even have an 8 core CPU which won't launch Borderlands 4 without it. The price of GPUs these days is 500 dollars for 16GB VRAM starter's kit. A lot of buyer's remorse PC builds (like prebuilts that cost $999 for RTX 4060 8GB) purchased in the last 5 years can't even play native 1080p games anymore. You two have two no firm grasp on the reality of what the average PC fanboy build is and why most people don't upgrade: PC gaming is expensive and E-Waste GPUs have defined the landscape with buyer's remorse. Someone who bought an 8GB worthless GPU from AMD or NVIDIA in the last 5 years isn't going to upgrade and will just "dude ini tweeks" and DLSS upscale from 1080p (lmao) and call themselves superior to consoles.
>>719648753I'm talking about the npcs. There's literally one less dimension to account for when it comes to managing npc movement. The maps in those games are divided into tiles as well significantly reducing the complexity
>>719630850quite well but a lot of stuttering
>>719647786Well yeah but they don't really know what is going on with that. Or Havok or almost any other logo.
>>719630383it doesn't matter how much game is optimized when your shitty apyware engine is running fucking spyware in the background, scanning your hard drive and phoning home about it the entire time. fuck off, timmy tencent
>>719630850it runs like piss ass
>>719630383>we gave developers the janky tools to make games with a "new" upper limit of graphical fidelity in exchange for disproportionately higher hardware demands just as a baseline of the engine itself>"developers are the problem"I'm not even talking about Lumen either. It's such a fucking joke. Barely works at the best of times and constantly artifacts. In some games like Ark Ascended it has an aneurism sometimes and spazzes out enough to make the game unplayable from the mild annoyance.
>>719631758>build from the ground up>by using a turnkey boilerplate EBTERPRISE QUALITY malware-ridden shitty premade engine...
>>719630383>all default project settings are literally aimed at TV media production, not real-time gaming>"optimization" tricks like Lumen and Nanite literally drop the performance to 1/4th by default, and look awful>everything is designed to be ran with TAA, else they look like trash>UE Asset store assets are super-HQ slop some jeet sculpted in blender and coated in 8K PBR textures, again not meant for games>Blueprints are slooow as fuck>"Noooo! Our Engine works just fine! Bad devs, bad!!"
>>719632546the best thing he will ever do in his entire miserable pus-filled sad sack of shit retarded life is die
>>719630383This is a poorfag problem. The game runs well with good hardware. I'm guessing those with the entry level 4060 are complaining about this
>>719633223a 1k pc is not even entry level anymore, 1k will only get you 1/3rd of the way to a gpu, pc gaming has a serious problem with this constant >muh grafix nigger tier retarded bullshit, because a lot of pc gaymers are retarded fucking mouthbreathing faggots who wouldn't know a good game if it bit them on the dick, not that console gamingnor console gamers are in any better shape either, but it's sad to see this kind of console kiddie retarded nigger bullshit in the pc space when it should be obvious to everyone that engaging in it is exclusively for the most retarded ass niggers on earth
>>719650835>The game runs well with good hardware.But it does not. That's just the thing.7900X + 5080 literally cannot hold steady 60fps at measly 1440p, and the micro stutters are still a thing in every single UE5 slop.>b-but use DLSS and upscale from 720p alraedy!!!No.
>>719650932>a 1k pc is not even entry level anymore,Wrong. That's enthusiast level.500€ gets you a console killer that yields native 1080p and real 60fps in any game.Every extra 100 bucks improves the performance and service life.
>>719634098>ex-DICE developers who were not known for smooth game releases.general and hit detection related issuesbugs and hit detection issues, their games always looked and ran great, 2042 not withstandingbattlefront and battlefield 1 were their best looking great and they ran on a toaster, regardless, comparing benchmarks, bf6 runs better than the finals anyway
>>719651041>European PC fanboy>https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=8gb+gpu+not+enoughevery single time. And AMD is dogshit for GPUs but you already knew that. It cost a lot more for a good viable 16GB GPU and even more for CPUs. By the way, when are you going to replace your oxidizing Intel CPU, PC fanboy? 8GB GPUs are the most prevalent on Steam Hardware Survey, Monster Hunter Wilds has overwhelming negative reviews on Steam from poor performance, and forced raytracing games make this board and Reddit cry out because their PCs can't handle it nor can they upgrade because good GPUs are expensive as fuck.e-waste GPUs and buyer's remorse is what modern PC gaming has become for entry level 400 dollar GPUs.
I have a 4080GTX.I will never be upgrading, because there isn't, and never will be, another game that justifies anything better than my current setup. Devs can fuck off and die, to be honest. They've run the hobby into the ground and I'm not paying for the damages.
>>719638446you forgot - he never wrote a single line of code in all his life
>Borderlands 4 excludes 50% of Steam users through high CPU requirements. A core problem in every sense of the word, some players may find themselves unable to play Borderlands 4 due to the game's specific demands for processing power.>https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/borderlands/borderlands-4s-pc-system-requirements-need-specs-over-50-percent-of-steam-doesnt-have-so-i-hope-youre-ready-to-upgrade>Steam Hardware Survey Reveals 1080p Still Mainstream Resolution In 2024>https://tech4gamers.com/most-steam-users-1080p-resolution/Damn dude, wonder why people aren't upgrading PC parts like Uzzy for $900 GPUs and $500 CPU motherboard combos. Sucks that the average PC fanboy crying about optimization and lack of support for non-Raytracing GPUS are tranny nsilvias tier 11 year old GTX 1660s.
What baffles me the most about things is how much visually worse everything has become. Nobody uses lighting well now that they’re using ambient directional shit instead of smart prebaked lighting even when it would be completely appropriate.Now you have all this AI shit and Upscaling and on and on and it results in ghosting out the ass.Then you have TAA and it’s equally shit alternatives, which doesn’t even effectively mask the jagged edges of hair and foliage that was once taking advantage of gradient alpha texturing or whatever it was.Everything just looks off now to me, and I can’t get it out of my head. Sometimes the bigger picture comes together and it’s less glaring, but it’s awfully rare.Fuck. I don’t know.
I'm honestly not going to blame UE5 here too much. Expedition 33 runs incredibly well and look good. Konami and the chink devs are to blame
>>719653012>instead of smart prebaked lightingYour post amounts to crying that you can't upgrade your GTX 960 to a modern GPU that has built-in hardware Raytracing. What's the matter little fellow, afraid of spending 350 dollars on an 8GB card? 8GB not good enough for you? What about those 12GB $700 GPUs? Prebaked in game dev takes so much longer than Raytracing and that's why the industry is changing. It's like clinging on to DX9 in 2011. Or that Doom 3 won't work on Voodoo gay nsilvias 1993 GPU.
>>719630697Persona 3 reload runs perfectly
yeah and most people plead not guilty in court toofuck swim teeny
>craft a shitty tool>blame the user for wielding it wrongWooow
>>719653409yes, it is a skill issue
>>719653012Global Illumination is way better than baked lighting and is what makes modern games look good. What you are asking for would be a massive undertaking for developers all for fake lighting
>>719630697Wrong.
>>719653327Persona 3 remake is interesting because it has a last gen version (PS4) which disables Raytracing. The PS5, Xbox Series X and Shitty Third World S, all have mandatory Raytracing turned on. Where the story gets weirder because the PC build can lower the graphical settings but can't turn off Raytracing, yet if you use NVIDIA's Control Panel you can disable Raytracing and the game will actually turn it off. Raytracing in Persona 3 Remake affects the reflections from mirrors, interesting enough.
>>719653217The game runs like shit even with a good GPU
>>719653217I have a 4060Ti. And I know that's not saying much, but since you mentioned.>>719653472By appropriate I mean corridor type experiences, not big open world ones. The kind of stuff RE Engine would be appropriate for (another engine that the developers can't seem to use right even though its in-house). I think some games do take advantage of it still though.
>>719653327That's also Unreal 4.
>>719630383It's true. Devs are lazy niggers who can't optimize shit to save their lives. Slop slop slop all day long.
The devs have literally no idea what they're doing.In MGS Delta, low shadows straight out disable all shadows, while low global illumination disables lumen with no AO, making the game look almost like mat_fullbright 1.Some modder just enabled UE4 features with very little performance penalty, making low settings somewhat bearable to look.https://www.nexusmods.com/metalgearsoliddeltasnakeeater/mods/73
>#12389732561208 thread where inept dev niggers act pissy about the crash they caused by not doing their jobStill not buying btw.
>>719653910what a clusterfuck of a game. obviously the real talent on konami left with kojima
>>719642368The .ini shit is 100% placebo.
>>719633223Ah so you’re brown and bitter because you are poor
>>719630383What's funny is that the performance issues in Delta aren't even as bad as people make them out to be. Now Oblivion Remastered, Silent Hill 2, Stalker 2? Those were games with legitimate concerns about the performance, especially Oblivion. But this game seems to have a lot more people complaining about it for some reason. Nothing else to cry about I guess, it's a really good remake. 100% this is consolefags being retards. They bought a Piss5 shitbox that is now more expensive than in 2020 or they bought a "premium" Piss5Pro shitbox that plays games worse, and this is just the latest game that becomes a slideshow on their cuntsole. In other words you get what you fucking deserve, pissants.
>>719632546so bad everybody uses it. His royalty model isn't bad. I don't know why he needs to compete with Steam when he carved out his own niche that extends beyond video games. He has Fortnite and he killed Serious Engine - a superior product.
>>719630697Nah, there's some weight to what he's saying. Space Marine 2 runs really well for the most part, and that game can have like 50+ enemies on screen at once.
>>719655107SM2 doesn't use UE
>>719653910graphics are retarded, that's how we got to this pointthe order is:1st. gameplay 2nd. smoothness, which ties into gameplay 3rd. music4th. story5th. power gap128th. graphicsfucj niggers and their muh grafix bullshit, fuck all the way off with that shit, go play on consoles like the child you are
>>719653472>and is what makes modern games look good.modern games DON'T look good though, so
>>719652539this guy gets it, why can't the rest of you?
>>719654963Delta is still unreasonably demanding on GPU, but there are no stutters.The particles are really fucked up, tho. They're the most demanding part of the game.I played it on 9070XT with high shadows and global illumination, with FSR4 Performance to ensure locked 60 fps. Better experience than 99% of players, but it still should have been better.Also Konami/Virtuos fucked up the scaling settings. Quality mode is 75% resolution scale instead of 67%, and balanced mode is 67% resolution scale instead of 58%. Which makes "Balanced" mode the equivalent of Quality mode in DLSS and FSR, while "Quality" is more like ultra quality mode.
>>719655703>with FSR4 Performance*at 4K.
>>719630383I don't normally want to take Sweeney's side but honestly, I believe this immediately and don't need any extra convincing. Most devs can't optimize for shit these days and this is evident on other engines as well.
>>719655107Space Marine 2 runs on Saber's in-house engine they've been using since WWZ.Further proof that custom engines are preferable to UEshit.
>>719654963>good remakeBegone shill
>>719656338Custom engines also makes it a requirement to train and keep talent. I don't doubt that a lot of the devs working on UE5 simply don't know what they're doing.Like why is there a day 1 mod for ultrawidescreen for Delta?It can clearly be done with not too much effort.
>>719630383>>Games such as Fortnite, Valorant, and Dead by DaylightFortnite stutters like shit and so does DBD despite it looking like shit too. Valorant might be the only UE game in existence without hitches but the invasive anti cheat will make up for that
Lumen was basically made for Fortnite to handle lighting in dynamic environment, with both dynamic day and night cycles and dynamic objects.Game like MGS Delta has literally no use for lumen. It only makes the game more temporally unstable.
>>719633383UE4 stutters badly but competent devs can actually fix it.>>719633327Both of these are extremely bad software implementations of things that Nvidia and AMD now do in hardware. It's the reason that UE5 games have such insanely high RAM requirements, but relatively modest VRAM reqs. Doing anything in software is the worst way to do it, and Epic's choice to offer these as a definitional feature in UE5 seems to have been driven by a very dumb notion that the GPU makes would give up on RT and HW texture compression. Say what you want about RT and whether it's worth it. It's far fucking better than Lumen. Nvidia's neural texure methods blow Nanite out of the water. They both look better (Nanite is always noisy) and run better.
>>719630383>Make engine>Make engine have bad performance or bad options that trick developers into making bad choices for bad performanceat a certain point it goes from "a bad carpenter blames his tools" to "these mofos are selling shitty tools"
>>719646360>hate the fact that CDPR is ditching it just because it has bugsThey are ditching it because the engine team is basically gone. There's no one left to work on it. REDEngine is literally going down as lost tech.
>>719630383Any game relased on current gen consoles should run well, within reason, on any GPU series that relased around the time that console gen started. That being said, if it runs good on ps5, it should run good with a 30 series card.
>>719630383> waaaaaaah product development is hard waaaaaah I can't do nothing and have customers give me money waaaaahFucking so what? You're developing a product, it doesn't matter who's at fault, it's your job to get it fixed.
I played Fortnite last like 2 years ago but it was stuttering heavily on first load on a fucking 4090
