I wanna get into Pathfinder, should I play Kingmaker first or can I just go straight to Wrath of the Righteous?
>>719668004play kingmaker firstkingmaker is a lower powered campaign so going from kingmaker to wotr will be fine, but going from wotr to kingmaker is going to feel a bit underwhelming
I personally liked KM more. I wish they kept the little cards and the kingdom management.
those managment minigames are truly horrible
>>719668305i would have liked the management better if it wasn't attached to the npcs that i don't give a shit aboutfull mercenary party is the way to go
Get the auto-buff mod.
>>719668497But buffing your party before and after every encounter is prime D&D 3.5e experience!
>>719668004Regardless of which game you decide to play first, make sure you download the mods that remove the shitty mini games.For Kingmaker, that's Kingdom Resolution. Mod it so all events take 1 day and have a 100% chance of succeeding.For WoTR, download Combat Relief 2 so you don't have to play the shitty Heroes of Might and Magic minigame.
>>719668004Kingmaker really shits the bed at the end, becomes extremely unsatisfying to progress.
>>719668004It’s shit because of the gay woke companions. The Reddit Fox and black paladin woman are intolerable. Rogue Trader seems ok so far.
>>719668801Hire mercs.
>>719668670These games are based on D&D 3.5?That's the edition I played the most with my friends
Post character sheets.
>>719668732>Kingmaker really shits the bed at the end, becomes extremely unsatisfying to progress.I disagree. Kingmaker is kino, especially if you go for the True End and romance Nyrissa. >>719668912>These games are based on D&D 3.5?Yeah, Pathfinder's mechanics are based on DnD 3.5. It was made by disgruntled dnd nerds who were frustrated with the direction DnD went in 4e and 5e.
>>719668670It eats up so much fucking time in the game and it's so repetitive doing the same spells over and over with so much combat.
>>719668004Ironically, Kingmaker is a much better game thanks to its campaign module and arguably companion characters. All WotR has really going for it is divine bullshit powerlevels.
>>719668975
>>719670093>not hoarding the whole worldwound in your bagngmi
>>719669289The amount of buffing a max level 6 man party + pets is so insanely tedious and time consuming. Obviously the dev never played their own game from start to finish or they would have included some kind of buff macro in the base game.
Is Magic Deceiver good? I feel it's either incredibly OP or extremely underpowered, with no in between
>>719668004Been playing Kingmaker for the first time and enjoying it. Kingdom management isn't too bad once you get the hang of it. Finishing up chapter 6. So far it's been okay even on challenging difficulty, but I hit a road block at the end of the Tenebrous Depths. Any tips on beating the Spawn of Rovagug? The dragon with him goes down quick but then no spells seem to work against him and he keeps healing.
>>719670996that's a lot of text
>>719671328For you
>>719668670Unless you are playing on Unfair then there is no reason at all to buff for every single battle.
>>719668004Kingmaker has all the SOUL
>>719670996I did a MD - azata runit starts kinda weak but mid-late act 3 you really take offI built evo DC and stacked phantasmal killer on fireball / lightning bolt, it turns a mind-affecting spell into a real-affecting spell that causes a real deathsome of the lower combos are decent/good but thats the bread and butter
>>719669091>especially if you go for the True End and romance Nyrissa.i think it's even Kino-er if you fail the romance imo.
>>719668732If this is bitching about House then git gud, its meant to be hardBut Armag and Pitax are weak points of Kingmaker. the stories arent great, you only get a small about of overarching plot info and at this point youve already gone through 3 other incidents to your kingdom so its pretty set it stone how things flow. plus the time gaps are way too long
would a goody two-shoes Tiefling Feyform Shifter into Azata be a fun first run for someone who has fucked around in the first part a few times but never made it far?or would it be best to do an Aasimar Paladin of Iomedae into Angel for the thematic relevance?
>>719672758>playing azata for anything other than gameplay faggingDon't
>>719670996Demon MD into Swarm
>>719670093Is green chicken still OK to eat?
>>719672841why?
>>719672558>If this is bitching about House then git gud, its meant to be hardIt's bad and convoluted design 'nuff said
>>719669091I like how they went from 3.5e enjoyers to the absolute slop that is PF2E.
>>719673181Because Azata is a prancing la la homo man mythic path.
>>719673181if its you're first run just play want you wantazata are a bit too whimsical for some
>>719673181Because the entire path is >*holds up spork* xDthe few cool moments it has don't make up for it
>>719668004Jump to Starfinder in the superior science fiction genre
>>719673428>*holds up spork* xDTrickster was pretty fucking miserable for the same reason, the only joke that even kind of made me smile was Improved Improved Improved Critical Improved
>>719668912Best comparison of the system is between this and NWN 2, pathfinder smooth some things that 3.5 had like cleric needs charisma for extra spellcasting power, paladin still a bit MAD because of will saves, etc
>>719668004Short answer is as follows; If you want to have fun go with Wrath, if you want to suffer go with Kingmaker. Allow me to elaborate, Kingmaker has a ton of time sensitive events and i really mean that. You get the timing off and you get a ton of bad outcomes that may force you to backtrack for hours. If you are new to the series it does a shit job explaining how things work, you are going to have to learn the hard way and fast. Finally some character quests fail if you go with choices not favored by the devs, i don´t mean you get a bad ending, i mean the quest fails as if you made some sort of mistake instead of a choice. That said the game does have Jaethal, Amiri and some interesting dungeon mechanics. Very punishing but enjoyable. Wrath is a more polished experience even if the party is not nearly as good or fun as the one in Kingmaker. It explains things better, it has more replayability thanks to the mythic paths being fundamentally different, the setting is better (I know what i said, be silent) and only the early game and the late game have some timed questing (which you can even somewhat cheat to avoid consequences and the game will recognize it, it won´t understand how you did it but it will accept it), plus you have mounts and more classes which are always a plus. All in all i think it´s the more enjoyable experience (not necessarily the best but the more enjoyable)
>>719668004In most ways, wotr is a better game. But Kingmaker has more soul. Kingmaker gave me that same feeling as BG1.
is Rogue Trader good?i'm not much of a Warhammer fan.
>>719668004Protect amber
>>719675573I loved it. The combat is only turn based. I find that to be better. If you have any idea what you are doing, it can be very easy, though. If you care about such things, I'd go straight to unfair difficulty. It's very easy to slaughter most anything past chapter 1 before they can do anything. I'm not a fan of Warhammer 40k in general, but I did like the Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader tabletop roleplaying book settings. I find the setting is quite good when it's not focused on Space marine "only war" shit.
>>719668004It's painfully woke.Expect a lot of grating female characters, several trans characters, mary sue black characters and so on.It gets exhausting pretty quick. Everyone is some kind of gay.
wotr is off the walls fantasy, i enjoyed it, but i prefer the relatively mundane settings when you deal with bandits and barbarians. that being said kingmaker does progressively get into super high fantasy stuff while being teased with it throughout
>>719673181>why?It's a gag route. For your first run I recommend Angel, Aeon, or Demon. Those three routes have by far the most content. Angels get the most content and it's the best for a heroic power fantasy. Aeons get slightly less but they have some unique ending and choices that only they can make. Demons have about the same amount of content as Aeons and if you play your cards right you can rule a chunk of hell (the abyss).Lich is also pretty good but I wouldn't recommend it for your first rune because you're not allowed to have a love interest and you have to sever your emotions when you ascend. Trickster, like Azata, is a gag route that shouldn't be played on your first run.
>>719668274Fpbp
>>719676251Just like real life!
>>719672758>>719672841>>719673428>>719676979>me that played Azata first playthroughHey, at least storming the midnight fane early was cool
>>719674249>Allow me to elaborate, Kingmaker has a ton of time sensitive events and i really mean that. You get the timing off and you get a ton of bad outcomes that may force you to backtrack for hoursJust mod that crap out with Kingdom Resolution. Download that mod and give yourself the following settings>All events only take 1 day to complete>All upgrades only take 1 day to complete>All events have a 100% chance of succeeding provided you choose the right advisor for the task>Infinite build pointsIf you do this, then the timed aspect of the game is basically modded out (aside from Act I with the Stag Lord). So you can enjoy the game at your own pace.
>>719676251I've seen fags say this but the worst woke shit that annoyed me was the orc dyke couple. I have no problem with niggers existing in any setting as long as they fit in as characters and not as some weird self insert nigga power fantasy. Anything else is easily ignored since it's not constantly thrown at your face
>>719677187"your own pace" means skipping 200 to 400+ days, patiently waiting for the story to finally move on, while you keep resolving problems that are irrelevant and are only there to waste your timeKingdom Management was a mistake, even when modding the game to skip it, it still manages to be a pain in the ass
>>719677187This without the build points
More like Real Time with SLOP
>>719670996Like all TTRPGs, as long as is fun is good, and making fireballs that hold you in place is funny
>>719676251Which is why you mod it
>>719677393REddit faced ass bitch
>>719677296>The worst part was only the transgender and his orc girlfriend Yeah, that's pretty fucking badEspecially given how prominent of characters they are.
>>719676251seelah isn't a mary sue if that's what you're suggestingshe fucks up and self doubts for good reason many times
>>719668274skip kingmaker*house at the end of time is not worth experiencing
>>719677393Trickster was so based for this
>>719677924Who ever came up with the Mandragora Swarms should of been shot.
>>719668004You're gonna be sucking dick anyway so don't bother being choosey.
>>719677821Seelah's whole backstory as an Iconic is that she was a punk war orphan street kid who fucked up really bad and is trying to redeem herself.
Camelia owes me sex
>>719678343I wanted to hate her but she won me over. Honestly, they all did.
>>719678489We know, random slave
>>719678343yeah, wich makes her want to see the best in peopleshe's proud she got to be a paladin, but when she gets propelled into the front lines to spearhead the newest crusade and lead the war she's like "oh shit, i'm not sure if i'm ready for THIS yet and you can see her sort of drink those stresses away"also her ongoing theme is trusting people by seeing the best in them but then getting that trust betrayedand even wondering if her heroic inspiration doesn't just get people killed unnecessarily wich would ultimately be her faultShe was kinda cringe, but she did feel humanit's like that coworker you wouldn't necessarily hang out with all the time or vibe with, but is always pleasant you know you can depend on eachotherdidn't expect to like her but I did eventually turn down full lich because of her (and because zachy was an asshole who wanted me to destroy my cash, fuck you)I personally also liked atleast one partymember was more down to earth and less epic donut steeli liked ember, aureshulae was ok, daeren and wendu were annoying but made me laughbut characters like woljif were WAY to "likeably quirky" and should shut the fuck upcamellia was a boring basic bitch and even her plot twist wasn't enoughgreybor was also a fucking retard
>>719673349what's wrong with 2e
>>719678859It doesn't give me one gorillion options that all play the same
>>719678074>Who ever came up with the Mandragora Swarms should of been shot.It's surreal that my level 20 fighter can basically solo a Dragon and also kill a reality warping Fey Lord in one turn with his team, but he can't take on a fucking swarm of bugs
>>719677393>implying one can simply unpozz something that was pozzed to the core to begin withYou would have to straight up rewrite a good chunk of the game. Replacing Seelah's portrait with some AI horseshit doesn't even change anything.
>>719679008>You would have to straight up rewrite a good chunk of the gameSuch as removing all the homosexuality?
>>719678903Kek
>>719678762>greyboronly one I actually disliked, kept asking if he could stand outside more door while I sleep with Arueshalae then setup an ambush to try to kill me, like he had a chance after watching me 1v1 Deskari I killed Regill at the end of his class quest too but atleast I understood where he was coming from
>>719678343IIRC, she even braids her hair because that was the hairstyle of the knight she accidentally got killed and is following in the footsteps of.
>>719679075Why did Greybor do that? He was always chill with me.
>>719679174Because if you offend his feelings too much he betrays you and tries to kill you
What to play for a Divine spellsword with full spellcasting?Battle Mystery Oracle? Crusader Cleric?Is adding being good with sword and board and a mount viable for a character like that or is it too much stuff to cram into a single guy?
>>719678903If I gave you a spear would you rather be trapped with an Elephant or Killer bees.
one big problem i have with WotR is that it just has way too many options, so i'm not sure what i actually even want to play.
>>719679374I can see having that issue if you are shopping for ideas by looking at the options.I'd go the other way, think of a thing you want to play then look at the options.Of course, if your concept is something as simple as "dude with a big sword", then yeah, that doesn't narrow things down too much, but then you start honing in on the concept.Armor or no armor, good at doing other combat stuff like tripping or just big damage? A splash of magic or not?What about the flavor? A berserker, maybe a soldier?Etc etc.
>>719679174everytime he kept telling me about assasins I kept telling him no IDC, I have a literal dragon outside the door already and arueshalae doesn't need to sleepI don't need him hanging around doing w/e the hell he's doingand thats too much for a 'professional' like him to handle
>>719679282Ive heard the Angle Oracle is OP. Think the mounts a bridge too far.
>>719679282>Battle Mystery Oracle?Good. Nature + Battle Oracle is a super popular build>Crusader Cleric?Also good. >sword and boardDon't do this. It's ass. Sword and Board is a total meme and it's way too feat heavy and if you wanna attack with your shield. Take Power Attack and a weapon with a high crit profile like a Scimitar or Fauchard>mountViable. If you go Nature Oracle then you can eventually ride your per. Same with if you go with an Animal Domain Cleric.
>>719679609Fucking fag. Who wouldnt choose to cuck a dwarf with hot loud Sucubus sex.
>>719679696>Think the mounts a bridge too far.Not really. Just take the Animal Revelation from the Nature Mystery (which you should be picking up anyway for the CHA to AC mystery), then pick up Boon Companion later on. That's 1 feat and 1 revelation to set up mounted combat. Sure you could go further and grab the mounted combat feat for double damage on charges but it isn't needed imo. Your mount will be for tanking and mobility around the battlefield, not damage, because as an Angel Oracle you'll be able to throw spells almost every battle after merging your spellbook
>>719679609You also have guards for a reason, but the game likes to pretend they don't exist
>>719679739>Don't do this. It's ass. Sword and Board is a total meme and it's way too feat heavy and if you wanna attack with your shieldIs there no way to make it work even half decent?I would be okay with subpar but viable.Is wielding the shield and not investing in feats to attack with it a bad idea? Surely there are options that support the play style of attack with sword defend with shield.Or is the shield just for defense superfluous with the mount? It takes hits for you if you are mounted, right?
>>719679609>doesn't need to sleepShe stops being a demon so yes she does
>>719678762To me, even the companions that are bad are still so funny (be it on purpose or not) they're worth keeping around. I picked Wenduag despite disliking her but she was so unhinged and retarded I never removed her from the party and it was the gift that kept on giving.
>>719680621wenduag is a sex pitbull, canon wife
>>719680621Kek, I like your style.
>>719680081>Is there no way to make it work even half decent?As an Oracle or Cleric? No. Shield Bash builds are retardely feat heavy in this game. A normal Shield Bash Build will need the following feats>Shield Bash>Two Weapon Fighting>Improved Two Weapon Fighting>Greater Two Weapon Fighting>Shield Master>Bashing FinishBasically, you need three shield bashing feats, on top of the three two weapon fighting feats, on TOP of the martial feats needed for a normal melee build, which are>Improved Critical>Combat Reflexes>OutflankIt's basically not feasible if you're a Cleric or Oracle. Especially since as an Oracle or Cleric, you still want to pick up Metamagic: Empower, Metamagic: Bolster, and maybe even Point Blank Shot and Precise Strike for your spells.>b-but what if I just use my shield for defenseThen you're crippling yourself. A key feat for melee builds is power attack which multiplies your damage bonus by 1.5x when you fight with either a two handed weapon or you two hand a one handed weapon.If you have a shield in your hand then it counts as an offhand weapon for the purpose of Power Attack, so you won't get the 1.5x damage multiplier. Instead you'll get a +2 to damage, which DOES scale with your level. But the damage will never a high as simply fighting with a one handed weapon by itself.> It takes hits for you if you are mounted, right?No, the Shield only adds to your own Armor Class Score. Your mount will not receive bonuses from your shield unless you invest the "Mounted Shield" feat, which is an utter waste on an Oracle or Cleric when you're already feat starved. If you're insistent on playing with a Sword and Shield, then you're going to have to play a martial class with a shitton of bonus combat feats like Fighter, Slayer, or Gendarme
I hate how these games fall into the classic CRPG trap of poor itemizationThere are so many weapon type choices, but most of them are either too rare to really be viable or just inferior to other types' magical options
>>719682460It wouldn't be so bad if all of the weapons were put into 5-6 categories tops. Two Handed Weapons, One Handed Weapons, Unarmed, Polearm, and Monk Weapons should be the only weapon categories imo. Weapons like Scimitars, Longswords, Maces, Clubs, and Falcatas should all fall under One Handed Weapons, and Great Swords, Bastard Swords, Falchions, Greataxes etc. should all fall under Two Handed Weapons
>>719682726but then fighter gets shafted
>>719682726the tag system is superior but the true draw of PF as a system is rules lawyering.
>>719682726There are more optionsSome kind of crafting mechanic or a shop that sells random enchanted weapons that refreshes or good gear that you can pick the form of or more options that I'm sure exist and are better than just not having weapons for your specific specialization
>>719684341saddest part is how limited even the roguelike minigame weapon list is
>>719668732How is WOTR any different? Entire chapter 5 reeks of devs not giving a shit and just wanting the game to be over with.
>>719684457well WOTR is actually unfinished, kingmaker is thoroughly complete.
>>719684521>well WOTR is actually unfinishedExplain what's unfinished outside of two late-game mythic paths (they're unfinished, just lacking in content, they're not the same thing but let's pretend they are)
>>719684457Is there any CRPG that doesn't run out of steam in the back end? It's sorta part of the genre's identity.
>>719668004>I wanna get into PathfinderBut anon, these games are based on a long dead ruleset that's no longer used in pathfinder. And in a vacuum theyre terrible games anyways, among the absolute worsts games you can play. But you know that because this thread isn't the least bit genuine, just like every other CRPG thread that gets spammed every day with someone pretending to be new to set up permanent generals.
>>719684653nobody ever played 2F irl
>>719684585I doubt old (as in pre-BG1) games had that issue much.
>>719684730It's more popular than that PF1e ever was and it's the only PF that is played now. 1e is not mechanically good, it's a worse version of 3.5e with worse content, and 3.5e is some of the worst most amoeba brained cancer imaginable and I say this as someone who played it throughout high school.
>>719684457I mean if you do the dlc / companion / side quests it can take awhile to finish chp 5 but if you've had enough you can just end it>>719684521they actually finished releasing content for wotr early this year>>719684653>And in a vacuum theyre terrible games anyways, among the absolute worsts games you can playelaborate and name 5 of the best games you can play, specifically with MC / party customization options
Didn't 2E sanitize Lamashtu?
whats the "best" ranged weapon for Greater Vital Strike, and is it always gonna be longbows?
>>719684805PF is and was always just 3.5 for 3.5 players who want superior 3.5 mechanics.>fuck hasbro we want more 3.5
>>719668004>I wanna get into PathfinderThe first and only requirement is to have abysmal taste.These games are tedious dogshit where you spend half your time putting buffs on your party and watching loading screens.
>>719684918composite longbows with high strength, yes.
>>719684982I want to do GVS with Javelins, or a single Javelin since multiples don't do anything for GVS damage
>>719668004Remember to install the most important modhttps://rpghq.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2191
>>719684854>elaborateThe games are unfinished and rushed garbage. Owlcat has bethesda design philosophy where more unfinished content is considered better than a small amount of highly polished content. So imagine playing a 90 hours game where the dev franticly slapped out every map in under a day and didn't even bother to test them, and then on release never fixed or improved any of that and instead charge people for DLC which is also rushed and unfinished. The end result is a terrible and boring game.>name 5 of the best games you can playI suggest you move onto another genre, as these CRPG threads have consistently been the worst threads on /v/ and are killing this board. Go play something that requires motor skills for once, these games are clearly brainrot and you've made so many terrible threads I no longer have any desire to spoonfeed or help you. These games are such a cancer there's an entire board made to contain then, just like boards for mobile games and vtubers, and unsurprisingly it's worse than both of them. I am so sick of seeing these stupid, dishonest threads and the nitwits these genre attracts it feels like an enormous victory every time I can honestly eliminate an rpg from my top 100. Some day i hope to have none as these are the only genre i completely regret spending time on. Never have I been like "man I sure do regret learning to 1cc that shmup". If this is the only genre you can play you should stay on /vrpg/.
>>719684945I just love RPGs
>>719685112oh hmm. well IIRC vital strike is less of an OP damage dealer and more of an extremely versatile feat-cheap way to buff a lower-BAB class without multiple attacks through class features and relying on Full Attack. if you have something to do with your actions that isn't a Full Attack vital strike can be cool. personally i like to save the thrown weapons for TWF wenduag with a million attacks
>>719685321No, you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be playing this crap. There's no role-playing in wotr, it's an interactive dragon ball z episode through and through.
>>719685273cool, now name 5 games where I can go full build autism like the song remixes but your 1cc touhou clears do nothing for me
>>719685379Vital Strike is equally good with full BAB ranged characters
>>719685484No this one that's for sure, everything plays the same
>>719685484>cool, now name 5 games where I can go full build autismYou're not getting spoonfed, newfaggot. If all you can do is make threads on shitty casual non-games then you have zero value here.
>>719685504no this one what?speak up anon>>719685552you can't even name one, you're just a hollow shitposter
>>719685503full BAB is going to be fine but they'll almost universally be better off just using their base multiple attacks and feating elsewhere. something with a swift action reliance gets a lot of value from vital strikes. i've taken it with bards a lot, especially with that swifted dazzling display
>>719668004Kingmakers dog just play wrath and play a lich wizard because it's the only valid way to play the game
>>719685661You make the same awful threads every single day pretending to be a newfag like some subreddit post and then sit here and bump all your shitty threads for 10 hours. Why would any sane person engage with you?
>>719685749>being an errand boy for an old man grooming you is the only valid way to play the game
>>719668004just play WotR. you won't finish Kingmaker, it's a proof of concept and the most "mobile game" ass entry in their series. WotR is signficantly more compelling and fleshed out.
>>719685145>https://rpghq.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2191what does it change?
>>719685896A lot of things? It's literally all detailed there. Can you read anon?
>>719685885>WotR is signficantly more compelling and fleshed out.It's the same damn game but worse and even more unfinished
>>719685896pretty based
>>719685973>AIInto the trash it goes.
>>719686064Doesn't look that much different from Owlcat's artstation slopAnd if it really triggers you that much you can change any of your companions' portraits with toybox
>>719685973This shit's insecure, gay, and lore unfriendly.Seelah's a foreigner following the crusade like most everyone in Wrath. She's a wandering adventurer paladin who is literally from Golarion's Africa equivalent.I also notice they didn't make Nenio white instead of Asian.
>>719686620doesnt everyone just murder nenio instead of recruiting them?
>>719678074should've or should have
>>719668004Honestly, you'd be better off skipping Kingmaker due to it vastly inferior compared to WotR. But then what, it's also a good way to see if you actually like this kind of CRPG if you get it on sale.
>>719685973you don't even need a special mod for this. there's a mod that let's you edit the appearance of companions, and i use it on almost everybody. Woljiff's default model isn't handsome or twink enough, Daeran looks better with regular Elf skin, Ember isn't emaciated enough, Seelah has a hideous portrait and hairstyle – pretty much the only person i travel with that i don't edit is Arue. you can also use Toybox to spawn the DLC Campaign companions in the main campaign. they won't have a "home" at camp or participate in conversations, but it's there.
>>719669091>especially if you go for the True End and romance Nyrissa.Right. Yeah. Somehow romancing the psychotic nymph that blames everything she directly caused to happen to her on everyone else is a good thing.
I still don't know how flurry of blows work, is it just an extra free attack if you're unarmed or using monk weapons?
>>719686620Who cares? It's a mod.
>>719686887>you don't even need a special mod for thisYes you do if you want to change her voice, and if you want to change NPCs like Anevia (and their voices, too)
>>719686887that thing replaces the text and audio stuff too. i didn't read the whole list. i dont even really care because the characters it changes are already terrible and best ignored.
>>719670093>Five Equips that give you nothing due to them sharing buffs instead of five equips that benefit you
>>719668004AFAIK: Kingmaker is Pathfinder 1E (d20 3.75E), whereas WotR is Pathfinder 2E (their own thing).So go Kingmaker simply because it uses 3.5 (3.75)E.
>>719686905flurry of blows turns Full Attack into Full Attack +1 when wielding monk weapons.
>>719668004Kingmaker is a grind, do Wrath first since it's a higher power game and has more tools to have fun with. The narratives are completely disconnected and standalone, so you don't have anything to worry about there. You might find it hard to play Kingmaker second though since Wrath has a ton of improvements in how it plays.The one thing I would caution you about is that both the Pathfinder games are primarily about build autism. You practically cannot progress on core rules if you don't optimise or utilise buffing, so having arcane and divine casters in your party at all times is critical and they have to be built well. The good news is that you can turn on the setting that lets you respec your characters or create entirely new custom ones to experiment with, but your mythic path is set by the end of Act 2.
>>719686887>Seelah has a hideous [...] hairstylecornrows make sense for a fighter thoit's what all the pro combat sports chicks do because it keeps the hair out of the way and unable to be pulled
Story-wise I much prefer Kingmaker in every way except for the Varnhold DLC which is kind of shit. Low level adventures are the best adventures and Kingmaker's garbage minigame is less intrusive than the crusade.
>>719687138>Kingmaker's garbage minigame is less intrusive than the crusadeNot even close see >>719677312
So I have a question. How should I do an Arcane Archer build?>Fighter with Long Bow focus and levels in Wizard>Ranger with levels in Sorcerer >Race?>Azata?
>>719687162Yeah, still less intrusive. Pretty impossible to fuck up unless you're gunning for True.
>>719686942>Who cares?I do because they justify it by going on about "medieval Europe" like spineless little cucks.If you're going to be pathetic racist, grow a pair and own it and just say "I don't want no fuckin' niggers in my goddamn vidya games!" instead of limpdick shit that doesn't make sense.
>>719687245>impossible to fuck upThat's literally not the problem. The crusade is impossible to fuck up either, and cheesing with your magic generals, or better yet, using combat relief 2 to skip the battles outright, is way more simple and less intrusiveKingdom Management is so trash that it still manages to get in the way even when you trivialize it with mods
>>719686957are you absolutely sure that's true? because i swear i remember changing her voice.>>719686960i was going to say i'd like a mod to delete companions from the game, but then i remembered WotR will let you kill pretty much everyone if you're willing to endure the consequences. so maybe next playthrough i should just gut Seelah, Lann, Sosiel, Regill, Wenduag, Nenio, and Greybor. lol
>>719686993>whereas WotR is Pathfinder 2Eno it isnt lol
>>719687325>are you absolutely sure that's true?Yes? There are no AI voice mods to change character voices outside of that one
>>719687191magus arcane is basically a free not-perfectly-optimized pretty okay choice. if you're talking multiclass buildfagging you are going to have spell level problems and have to select a spell list that gets around that and finagle a prestige class preqres and shit. it's not like nuD&D where spell levels add up.
>>719685145sad mod for sad people
>>719687191There is literally an arcane archer class
>>719687191Kinetic Sharpshooter
>>719687325love wenduag and regill. hate carmilla. simple as.
>>719685145Great mod for great people
Anyone else always go Wendu because Lann seems like a bit of a bitch?
>>719687668But how does this affect you personally?
>>719687919that is one of the many reasons yes
>>719687919No, I always go Lann because Wendog is shit
>>719687776Eldritch Archer sucks though.
>>719687919>Anyone else always go Wendu because Lann seems like a bit of a bitch?No. I'm not dumb enough to trust a demon worshipping cannibal, who sacrifices her own people for power, and takes joy in slandering the names of righteous men.
>>719688193it definitely does not suck at all in the slightest but it's maybe not the most ideal. ray spells are very good.
>>719687919I kill her because she's genuinely evil and self serving. Lann is just a sarcastic lawtist, I can get along with him.
>>719688223>He didn't make Wendu his subservient bitch during her recruitment later on
>>719687919He seems boring, Wenduag ends up looking like more of a interesting character besides generic good boy at first glance, but it's hard to justify picking her if you're playing a good aligned character. I don't really care, though I always pick her because she is funny and the owner/pet interactions you have with her are funny as well
>>719688337she's never really subservient, she needs constant correction.
>>719668274Kingmaker's a pretty decent campaign book too, for tabletop play, and easily adaptable.
>>719688340>besides generic good boyAs opposed to generic evil guy?
>>719687919>one is a whiny bitch>the other is a chaotic retard bitchYou lose either way.
>>719685273>as these CRPG threads have consistently been the worst threads on /v/ and are killing this boardYes, give me more off topic threads that the jannies don't delete, more AI slop, more dogshit porn and softcore porn spam threads. Any video game thread = ruining the video game board. kill yourself.
>>719686620>lore unfriendlyThe lore is woke
>>719685273>CRPG threads have consistently been the worst threads on /v/ and are killing this board.exquisite bait
>>719688402She comes of more as pragmatic, selfish and someone that stays in survival mode 24/7. Of course, I'm talking at first glance, there are lots of times she is comically evil and selfish
>>719685321Owlcat games aren't RPGs
>>719688402psycho mutant who is only kept from murdering anyone she thinks is weak by the PC babysitting her is fun
>>719688402Camellia is categorically more evil than Wenduag honestly
>>719685273Excellent post
>>719688547There is absolutely nothing pragmatic about turning your own people into schizo cannibals (that end up dead if they say no or fail)
>>719688621They're both evil period, there's really no point to argue who's more or less.
>>719688621And?
>>719688664Her people are weak losers who needed to be made strongerSimple as
>>719688664she's the only known success and also the only one of her people that isn't going to die in a worthless sub-sewer. >>719688701>>719688621I would argue that half the nutty evil shit Wenduag does is just to get the MC's attention to stop her and give her a spanking. Some crazy foreplay.
>>719688389That's the fun part
>>719688746Yep, spoken like a generic bad guy
>>719688337>he trusted her at allIf she wasn't a woman who would fuck you, you 100% would've killed her in the prologue. She's a low IQ henchmen without an ounce of loyalty. She'll happily betray you if she believes there's someone stronger than you>b-but I can fix herNo, you can't. She's only loyal to you because you're one of the strongest people in the universe. If you lost all of your powers, I guarantee you that she would backstab you or abandon you
>>719688664Pragmatic is not a good word, my bad. I would exchange it with cynical instead. She does not care if a lot of her people die through the demon ritual if it means a minority of the strongest come out of it like she did and they take over and continue on the tribe. It's some "cull the weak so the strongest can rise" extreme survival mentality. She isn't doing it because she is le evil and wants everyone to die and suffer
>>719688867Your character literally btfo's the entire Abyss. She knows her place.
>>719688621>Camellia is categorically more evil than Wenduag honestlyCamellia>Serial Killer>Serial Liar>Sadist>SpoiledWenduag>Demon Worshiper>Cannibal>Kinslayer>Serial Liar>Kills anyone who gets in her wayhmmm
>>719688946>Calling Wendog a cannibal and kinslayer while ignoring that Camellia is both of those too
>>719686703I just want you to know its just you and me repeating this dance, daily... for years.
>>719688939>Your character literally btfo's the entire AbyssPrecisely my point. That's the only reason she's loyal to you. Do note, even if you're romancing her, she'll betray you for Savamelekh if she believes he's stronger than you.If your character ran into a Mythic Level 50 Archmage, I promise you that Wendu would stab you in the back so that she could join his party.
>>719688867she does have faith in the MC being the most powerful in the long term though. she'll fight against someone obviously stronger than MC to stay on his side. MC becoming weak would be a betrayal in itself. Sort of a self-improvement pact, very cute.
>>719687451you just switch her voice to another default voice? it's not like any of the dialogue after the prologue has voice acting. you just want default white woman #1 grunts instead of negress ones.
>>719688939She literally ends up betraying you anyway if you don't get the arbitrary checks the game wants you to get
>>719688996Camellia is a cannibal? I admittedly forgot that she kills her father because I always kill her in Act III. But I had no idea that she was a cannibal too.
>>719687856i forgot Camellia. i should gut her, too. dumbass character.
>>719689080She literally eats parts of her victims
>>719688867>No, you can'tBut you can. At least with one of her romance outcomes. I ended up going with Arue anyways because I'm a sucker for cheesy painfully vanilla romancesAlso I think Cam has hotter scenarios than Wenduag>>719688946>Cannibal>Kinslayer>Serial LiarThese are all applicable to Cam Cam
>>719689032>MC becoming weak would be a betrayal in itself.t. Wendu
>>719688767>to get the MC's attention to stop her and give her a spankingWhat about this? Does she do this to get a spanking?
>>719689028>for Savamelekh if she believes he's stronger than you.This is what I don't get. Depending on how you play through act 5 you can easily reach the point where you've already BTFO'd Deskari before doing her companion quest, and even if you don't, by that point you were already defying the demon kings like Baphomet in act 4. You can even act like big shot when talking to Nocticula, not giving a shit she is 1 gorillion times stronger than you when you meet. Despite all of that, she genuinely still believed that if she teamed up with the bitch demon guy and some of the mindraped mongrels she could kill you. How retarded is she?
>>719689120To be fair the MC being weak would also betray the goody two-shoes types. >why did you have to kill this pure evil murdering motherfucker? he should have faced justicebullshit.>>719689209A lot of women will try to bait you with jealousy but that is probably a commentary on your MC.
>>719689349>but that is probably a commentary on your MCno it's not lol it's for Daeran
>>719689391she's calling your blood dirty
>>719689268She is extremely retarded, but it's also Owlcat's stupid questlines being retarded, it's no different than Camellia suddenly attacking you if you don't let her murder the servants, or Greybor trying to kill you in act 5 even though he should know he has zero fucking chancesThey make up some arbitrary point system and if you don't get enough good boy points then the character betrays you
>>719689268>How retarded is she?she's a literal uneducated cavedweller who has spent her whole life surrounded by idiots saying that someday they'll get to be the big heroes to the above ground people like their ancestors while being weak and pathetic weeniesshe is understandably very retarded
>>719677924true, but i must marry my lettuce wife
>>719689452>They make up some arbitrary point system and if you don't get enough good boy points then the character betrays youI believe that for Wenduag you need to assert your dominance by picking specific options during certain events with her. However, from what I remember, if you pick the incorrect option in even one event she betrays you. I wouldn't mind the system if it at least made sense and had other flags, like, if you already had killed Deskari, and didn't bow down to any of the demon kings she just betrays the demon dude on the spot because she already knows you're the top dog, but if you do the companion quest before Iz and you've been acting like a little bitch before she betrays you anyway assuming you didn't assert your dominance before. I dunno, it's really dumb.
>>719677924>house at the end of time is not worth experiencingIt's cock and ball torture, I'll admit, but it's only about 2-3 hours long, which is nothing for a game that's over a hundred hours long.
I wish there were a furry-removal mod from WotR. Something that comprehensibly removes Nenio and the advisor and any other foxkin furshit.If there's going to be an industry for paid mods the least it could do is exist to fix bad taste in game design.
>>719690284I meant comprehensively
>>719690284The worst part about Nenio is that she's inextricably linked to one of the best questlines in the game.
>>719690336What? No, the opposite, it's the worst one
>>719690358Ah I see, you have shit taste
>>719690336she runs best class too.>>719690358its a very good questline outside the dumb puzzles.
>>719690336I never finished it since I didn't take Nenio, or I took her long enough to remove her, I forget what. I did start it but then realized it couldn't be finished without her because only the super special snowflake foxkin is smart enough to solve a puzzle in some ruins.
>>719671734Basically this. All you need is Bless, Haste and Mirror Image to break anything.
>>719668004I always found it bizarre how people who didn't like KM enjoy WotR. It's more but with even more shit on the side you have to deal with like Crusade management.
>>719690462>Basically this. All you need is Bless, Haste and Mirror Image to break anything.Maybe if you're playing on casual or normal difficulty, lol. Even on Core, you're fighting enemies with 30+ AC as early as level 3.
>>719690528difficult fights are few and far between on any standard difficulty.
>>719690505Higher power level means more toys to play with, and it goes all in on the power fantasy, which is what these games are about.
>>719690528you think most people are playing on anything above normal, anon? they're barely feared into that one.
>>719690619Prebuffing is needed on Core and the higher difficulties is my point. You're not breaking 30+ Attack when you're not even level 5 yet if you're not buffing and using CC spells
>>719689452>Camellia suddenly attacking you if you don't let her murder the servantsI mean, by that point you are know she is a spoiled, unrepentant sociopath that hates being told no.
>>719690682you dont need to beat AC to kill a guy, its a rock paper scissors game.
>>719689452>Greybor trying to kill you in act 5 even though he should know he has zero fucking chanceI specifically game him so that he betrays me because it gives me an excuse to kill the retard for having no principles beyond whoever pays him the most.
>>719687276"Say the thing so I can dismiss your very valid perspective on [thing]!"Kill yourself owlcuck. Go jerk off to cuck porn and get raped by the niggers you love so much.
>>719690723>>you dont need to beat AC to kill a guyYou actually do. The best strategy is: Pre-Buff -> Win initiative with your high initiative DC caster -> Debuff and Stun the enemies with your spells so their stats are lower and they can't fight back -> move in for the kill with the rest of your partyLiteral best way to handle every single difficult encounter in the game
>>719690528>>719690682this is really more of a kingmaker problem, but>dat feel when you have no other options but to resort to coup de grace attempts to finish off a downed opponent
>>719690803The only times that happened with me was with crag linnorms, if you didn't stock up on acid flasks for troll trouble that's a you problem.
>>719690857>The only times that happened with me was with crag linnormsthat's specifically what I was thinking about. that motherfucker in the cave you can fight way earlier than anyone sane would.
>>719690797its a good way sure but there's a whole list of spells with no hit component>>719690857you've always got acid blasts and the bow comes pretty quick.
>>719690795>your very valid perspectiveSee? Pathetic limpdick racist still too chickenshit to stop trying to hide behind bullshit excuses that don't make any sense and admit he's just a racist, even when he's bravely anonymously belting out "nigger".
>>719691045I'd be happy to call you a nigger your faggot face, you limp dick wristlet nigger. Post your address and I'll stream myself stopping by.
>>719690682>playing on lower difficulties if easy>playing on Core and above is actually equally easy but you need to waste time on pre-buffing and whatnotOnce you notice this, you'll realize that Owlcat's games have no real challenge. Difficulty setting is merely a matter of whether you enjoy wasting your time or not.
>>719687943How dors videogame affect yoy
i play on Default Normal.played at least half of Kingmaker in Real Time, liked it, tho turn based combat was a far more memorable experiences.
>>719676979I dont recommend aeon as first run, i made first angel/legend and second aeon. It was so good that i cant play other mythic class
>>719692678>angel into legendbut why
>>719687996Truth death to wen and cam
>>719692757I wanted to make legend as first, my character was barbarian and when she could drop all this godly powers she did it.No demon i hate evil
>>719691370you first ;)
I love Camellia!
>>719692974i'm pretty sure you can be a neutral demon
>>719668004Honestly couldn't get into Pathfinder games. Their selling point is ultra-autistic build planning, but it ends up being selecting strongest class combinations and chasing numbers, not any real interesting synergy of choices. And the dialogues are just the worst. They literally go like this:1. Exposition Dump A2. Exposition Dump B3. Exposition Dump C4. (Chaotic Evil) Kill that guy5. Ok, thanks
>>719692784
>>719693114This is about right.None of the dialogue options in their games have ever really been satisfactory, it seems like arbitrary evil, some kind of arbitrary good, its all disjointed from what an organic character would be saying and doing.The build planning isn't even that autistic, just cast all your caster buffs every fight and trivialize the game so much you may as well just use toybox to flip on instant combat resolutions and invulnerability since it gets so boring.The latter is a bit of a problem with the pathfinder system too though, but it was never a good system, just a good alternative to 4e.
>>719693039But its kinda pointless, if i wanna play neutral aeon is superior
>>719693316true neutral is true autism. shame wotr demon content is kind of shitty despite having a whole fucking act in hell. only the end slides are interesting.
>>719668004Don't play either, they are both shit and not worth playing.
>>719693282>None of the dialogue options in their games have ever really been satisfactory
>>719693404Heh that's why i loved it
>>719693701i liked aeon but their powers might as well just be>ACKCHUALLY THAT IS INCORRECT
>>719693039The entire mythic path is you being a raging tard, you can't be neutral.
>>719693751you just have to be bipolar neutral and make extra good choices too
>>719693724>fixes the Worldwound before it happens, erasing his own birth in the processAeon is wild.
>>719673181Because you need to play le edgy evil path or else many zoomer anons will start foaming at the mouth.
>>719693932
>>719692757Because fuck Iomadae, that's why.
>>719693671Love these options, it's just pure intrusive thoughts
>>719693932STOP IN THE NAME OF THE LAW
>>719694946Demon way, i think its good that they add dialogue for living beast
>>719695170Every mythic path gets these, not just demon, you could be a goodie two shoes and still have these options available
>>719695347I know i played the game i just say that they fit demon
Kingmaker is pretty neat. Amiri is best girl.Still in the middle of Wrath but Nenio is growing on me. Regill is clearly the best companion though.
>>719686620"Lore unfriendly" dont pretend to care about lore when it suits you. People who are at least choosong to use the mod dont go around demanding everyone else use it like the woke retards who demand that everything be tailored to their sensibilities. And again, why do YOU care what people shoose to do to their singleplayer game?
>>719680081Sword & Board shield slam works just fine,Warpriest Aeon btw
>>719670093legend is truly stupid
In terms of combat, this was probably my favourite character. But GD was kind of shit as a path.
>>719687079Short hair or bald makes the most sense if you think about it. Cornrows is in this case pure stylistic choice. "Im a fighter but still care about my looks"
>>719696157its set up from the very first scene but you can tell they did not give a single fuck
>>719696157Did you played after they patch him?
>>719696549Yeah. That was after the patch.
>>719695793>"Lore unfriendly" dont pretend to care about lore when it suits you.The irony of this sentence is that you're championing a mod that is in fact lore unfriendly because it suits you. Seelah is a foreigner to both Mendev and Sarkoris...as is a good chunk of the crusade and your companions like Regil, Ember, and Greybor because the whole point is that the worldwound attracts and concerns the entire world.
>>719668004You shouldn't play multiethnic pozzed fantasy to begin with
>>719696750Im championing the right for people to mod their shit however they want. I dont use the mod because i dont care. I thinl seelah is annoying and i replace her with a hireling as soon as i can but i dont go around telling people how to play their games
>>719695793Pathfinder is inherently "woke", though. Seelah is an OG character from before the Pathfinder system was even out and three of the major Good goddesses in the setting are in a gay polycule.In this case, you're the tourist coming into the hobby and demanding that it be tailored to your sensibilities.
>>719697128How though? Im not asking anything of the developers. Im not demanding anything. I'm just tailoring my personal experience.
>>719697017Being able to mod your shit however you want doesn't magically mean you can't be criticised or you can't be wrong.
>>719668004play kingmaker and skip wrath, /v/ has dogshit taste like usual
>>719679136nah she braids her hair because she's a fucking sheboon
>>719677924>skip a 100 hour long video game because a single 1-2 hour part of it is badthis nigger plays no video games
>>719697295"You're playing with your toy wrong!" -argument
>>719697660You are playing with your toy wrong.
>>719697660>NOO DON'T CRITICISE ME OR QUESTION MY REASONING.
>>719668004Pathfinder's combat is horrible. Play Rogue Trader instead
>>719697820K. Dont see how that affects you though. Must be exausting worrying and being upset at all those people who play modded games.
>>719697857But whats your reasoning behind criticizing how people mod their game?
>>719697973That people should just be honest about their intentions instead of clinging to retarded and non-sensical arguments about "Medieval Europe"
>>719698064Do you hold studios to these standards as well?
Kingmaker is somewhat good (meaning it's mostly excellent with some shitty parts), Wrath of the Righteous is horrible and you shouldn't bother with it.
>>719698124The standard of not arbitarily forcing in discussions about "Medieval Europe" in a high fantasy setting and pretending it's valid because "hurr durr buildings and armor"? Yes.
>>719695793>People who are at least choosong to use the mod dont go around demanding everyone else use it like thenigger, you infest every pathfinder thread and turn it into a political discussion about your modyou're doing the same thing, but apparently it's okay when you do it
>>719698275Do these types of game take inspiration from medieval Europe?
>>719698192>in the opposite world...
>>719698321No, because Medival Europe refers to a specific period of european history
>>719698301Whos forcing you to download it and use?
Why isn't this shit pf2e
>>719698417because nothing is
>>719679136Yeah>The young paladin wears her hair in Acemi's style and is trained in the use of the longsword. In so doing, she hopes to carry on the good work that Acemi might have done had she not fallen at the Battle of Red Hail. It's the least she feels she can do to make up for a death that she allowed to happen.To be honest, Acemi's death is kinda on her own self for not getting another damn helmet from somewhere in the multiple days before the battle that killed her after letting Seelah get away with taking her fancy one so she could sell it to survive
>>719698364So wrath of the righteous takes no inspiration from medieval europe? Knights, castles etc...
>>719685973Picked up
>>719698321>take inspirationPossibly. Every form of art takes inspiration from some other one. But your direction brain for some reason thinks that it's okay to take inspiration from a period of time and add dragons, gods, undeads, different fantasy races to it, but for some reason the line is crossed at niggers.You're mentally ill.
>>719698461Mendev is themed around the renaissanceSarkoris is themed around the celts
>>719698414Who's forcing you to spam every thread with it?
>>719676251>>719677296yeah, your companions are boring and dislikeable, but they're not not eye rollingly woke the troon and his anti racist orc paladin gf on the other hand are insufferable and impossible to get rid ofthey're the main quest givers so they act like your bosses and despite all the fuckups they commit throughout the story, they remain soexecuting both should be a Lawful Good option
>>719698461NopeWrath of the Righteous takes inspiration from Dungeons & Dragons which takes inspiration from The Lord of the Rings which takes inspiration from Beowulf and WW1
what's the best build to tell casters to go kill themselvesI want to basically play as anti mage
is respeccing fixed? I fucked up a feat on my lich and wanna redo my build and I guess I could take the chance to dump my CON too.will I lose any perm buffs? like the +2 books or the perm holy aura from the dragon graveyard quest, demongraft, etc.
>>719698724sorry, m8casters are king
>>719698724Dispell caster + Aeon's dispell gaze
>>719698461>>719698321Bruh Pathfinder takes inspiration from fucking everywhere which is why its pants-on-head retarded to pretend there's no brown people in the setting
>>719695774Based taste, the man exudes pure XO energy.
>>719699592Its like retards arguing in poor faith against retards arguing in poor faith lately. Well not just lately, but even more so nowadays.
>>719698724>what's the best buildThe one where you cast 20 buffs and autoattack.
>>719699592I remember people trying to guess where Owlcat's next Pathfinder game would be set. Funny how tha turned out.
>>719699592Which country is where the Worldwound at?
>>719700681The Worldwound is the one labelled as "DEMONS 'n SHIT" over near the cavemen and magic robots, while Kingmaker takes place in "HUGE INTERNATIONAL CLUSTERFUCK"
>>719700940If the Stolen Lands are so close, then how did Kingmaker's MC get out of his god bound duty of sending forces to help the crusade?
>>719701153iirc there's a quest about that but I think it might be limited to LG characters, I think there might also be a kingdom management event or two relating to it? Its been a while since I played the game
>>719668004>woke colorsshan't play
>>719697909I feel like you're the only person who feels the same way that I do. I deliberately set the difficulty to story not because it was hard but because I found it ridiculously tedious.Also, fuck Nenio. I can handle all the other woke shit but hearing that fox sperg talk almost ruined my good boy run
>>719702757>NenioPeople will say 'oh just kick them out of the party' or 'don't take them' about unwanted party members but I often feel like just having the encounter there in the first place at all is off-putting.
>>719668004You can go with both. KM is deffo easier but has worse interface for learning the game (for example during feat selection). WOTR is a very challenging game; seriously normal in WOTR feels like Hard in KM. If you're going with WOTR, I highly recommend playing a class with animal companion. Both are great games and any CRPG fan should play them.
>>719702990>People will say 'oh just kick them out of the party' or 'don't take them'Yeah because it's the non-autistic way of interacting with companions. If you don't like them, then just don't use them or outright tell them to leave and never come back. You are acting like a little fucking bitch who basically says "waaaah why did this NPC talk to me, I did not ask for this, I am triggered".There will never be a game in which you like every character, but if you are never even given the chance to meet them, you will never know if you like them or not in the first place.
>>719668004How do I reliably land ray spells as a wizard?And no I refuse to do quickened truestrike before every cast.
>>719702990also do you really wanna miss out on their quest rewards?there should be an alternative way to get loot from their personal quests if you wanna play as an evil character and kill them or just not bother being their babysitterat the very least there should be the option of "haha, you see, I was just pretending to be your friend so I got your help but now that I got what I wanted I have no more use of you"that way you at least have a justification for being nice to your companions as an evil character and honestly that is the most realistic way a real evil character would act that isn't a mustache twirling retardthey can write the betrayal to be fun and flavourful too with a fitting reaction from the companion so it isn't just "I don't like you! [Kill him]."
>>719702990Is nenio the one with the really tedious quiz introduction that the game forces you to sit through.
>>719703368>furry character>not know if I'll like it in the first placeCan't kick out the advisor, either.
>>719703676>Can't kick out the advisor, either.But you can make her gigaseethe over and over again, which is objectively better than just kicking her out.
>>719703771Not really, because it breaks immersion whenever they show up. Best I can do without going and making a mod myself is maybe seeing if Toybox will let me change the portrait out.But the characters really shouldn't be there at all in the first place.
>>719703860Fantasy races break immersion for you in a fantasy game?
>>719703771>send her decapitated head to the capital asking for a new advisor since this one had an unfortunate accidenttell me this wouldn't be absolutely dope lich/demon/whatever roleplay
>>719703892Don't be obtuse, kitsune only really fit in asian fantasies. If there's some furshit setting out there for furries I won't complain in their game that they have them, but this is a western medieval fantasy RPG. Bad enough almost every setting has an obligatory cat species already.
Wasn't Nenio a kickstarter companion? I think I read that in some /vrpg/ thread once.
>>719703452if you're using rays then dex is your primary stat.
>>719704096So the game would've been better if it had just failed to fund as successfully? lolI didn't think they kickstarted these though.
>>719704096I think she was suppossed to be a DLC companion (and ulbrig in the vanilla game)furthermore, the fox race was a kickstarter goal, idk if she would just changed to a different race if they didn't hit that or what
Kingmaker is 100x harder than Wotr. Wotr is better as a first game.
>>719704213Would've been better as a DLC, then it could be toggled off.
>>719703995>it doesn't fit in this fantasy game because I don't personally like itTerminal autism
>>719703989Yeah that would be pretty sick, but if they were to add every single possible interaction to every single dialogue, the game would never come out.
>>719704306Yeah, there should've been a high-elven wizard in Game of Thrones guiding Jon Snow through his adventures at the wall, casting spells, and an orc warlock advising Cersei in king's landing, its a fantasy setting it totally fits because everything is fantasy in it.
>>719704403see>>719699592It's a giant world with all kinds of shit in it, including space robots and shit. Your argument doesn't really work here.
>>719689209mystery nigga looking ass
>>719704486The space robots are also dumb. That entire dungeon stood out and didn't belong but at least you can see it on the map and just not go there at all, though it should be modded out too. You can't avoid Nenio's opening encounter or the advisor appearing.
>>719704604Okay, well then make your own IP where you can decide what belongs and what doesn't. As it is you're playing a video game which has a very old established lore. If you don't like it - you can just not play it.
>>719704679Yeah, I'll gather the funding for my personal setting and release a game with a story I don't personally know the outcomes to and therefore can't enjoy, lolIt'd be easier to mod it and that's why I wish a mod existed. One already does for the culture-war bullshit but I guess there's more impetus for that kind of thing, and I think it doesn't include Nenio anyway.
>>719704847I just find it an extremely narcissistic behaviour to walk into an established IP and tell what belongs and what doesnt, and also say that the devs should include options to turn off the things you specifically don't like, because they don't belong in your personal opinion.Modding the game is fine though, do whatever you like with that.
Why wont owlcat give me another pathfinder gameI hate 40kids
>>719704950Not at all, as a customer for a product I should have preferences and those preferences can be strong or weak. I have a strong preference against furshit, but I would otherwise enjoy the product and there are few alternative products to enjoy instead. I enjoyed Kingmaker without the presence of furshit, I expected to enjoy WotR without it too.
>>719685145>>719685973Based mod. Watch how the trannies seethe.
>>719704364fair enough but with how adversarially she is written she is really asking for itlet an evil character at least hang her as a traitor for undermining the crusade or something at the end, that way you don't have to rewrite the previous quest states
>>719704958They like 40k, they like 40k a lot, but I would assume they'll shift focus to something else after Dark Heresy. There's that Expanse game Amazon wants 'em to make, but I think that's getting its own team, so whoever's working on Dark Heresy will get another project after the DLC cycle's up.
>>719705201Id at least settle for old world warhammer or maybe even age of smegma, just something fantasyMultiple scifi games at once is just boring me
>>719705426A Warhammer fantasy RPG would be amazing. But there's few scifi RPGs out there in general so I can't complain.
>>719705426>Multiple scifi games at once is just boring meThey did two Pathfinder games and one 40k game with a second upcoming. They're pretty evenly split I'd say. Odds are they flip back to Pathfinder after Dark Heresy, but that's 2 or 3 years out minimum.
>>719668274Either this or skip Kingmaker OP.Kingmaker starts interesting and nuanced and slowly becomes a fucking painful slog.Granted the same happens in WotR but the slog there can be skipped if you don't wanna do the various quests.
>>719695830Oh, neat.That's with the full feat investment the other anon descried, right?Is there a way to skip some of those with Loremaster?I'll create a max level character with toybox and fuck around with the possibilities.
>>719677987More of an Aeon move. Trickster would turn them into an actual beartrap or something.
>>719703995>>719704403Kitsunes are explicitly foreign, they're from Tian Xia a region inspired by the oriental that's directly north(past the crown of the world) of Sarkoris. The "western medieval fantasy" literally only accounts for a relatively small percentage of the world.
>>719706039Golarion is a true "everything and the kitchen sink" kind of world.
>>719706039Nothing else in the game is presented with an asian aesthetic. Its fine for there to be exotic and distant travellers though. But I still dislike furshit on account of being furry, though that does give slight more legitimacy to their presence if there's bizarrely an oriental region next door.
>>719677924>>719689879>>719689728house at the end of times is fine, just a hard dungeon>>719668274despite enjoying it kingmaker is quite a heavy game tho, because of the kingdom mechanics (wotr also has some kingdom mechanics but much more forgiving), if there's a reason to skip kingmaker, this is the reason
>>719706116I mean I get it but dear god that is the worst kind of way to write your fantasy worldIsn't pathfinder a make-your-own-shit-up type of game anyway? why does the default world need to be so devoid of any coherence?
>>719706491Its just stitched together randomly, meant to move product and take advantage of WotC's fumble over 4th edition D&D. Its not a real setting thought out with an intent to world-build properly.
>>719706241It's not furry for the sake of furry if that's what you're thinking, they're actually based on japanese kitsune. Demon fox spirits that can take the guise of humans for trickery and whatnot, Pathfinder's full of this kind of stuff, the actual Egyptian gods are in the setting, not as stand-ins either, the literal ones from our Earth. Matter of fact, our Earth actually exists in the setting as a planet, as far as the timeline of the setting is concerned though, it's only the early 20th century.
>>719706491It's fine, and at least in theory there's an explanation for everything being where it is, more or less, even if it's not exactly organic.>Isn't pathfinder a make-your-own-shit-up type of game anyway?I'm not a big fan of Golarion, but I'll agree with the pathfinder guys that a game of this kind (""D&D like"") works better when there's a default setting with a default flavor for stuff.
>>719706241Konomi is literally a distant traveller, she's from Tian Xia, the same is true of Nenioor rather the person whom she was based on and (you) if you're a Kitsune.
>>719706690>egyptian pantheonCloning Forgotten Realms are they? Another kitchen sink but it was a better thought out one at least, if just marginally.
>>719706740Would still love a mod to remove the furshit. But the case you're making helps alleviate some of my reluctance to Nenio's presence, but only because it shifts my distaste towards the Pathfinder setting as a whole.
>>719706749That's fundamentally what Pathfinder is, when anon said it was made by a bunch of guys unsatisfied with the direction D&D took with 4e and onwards, he wasn't kidding. The only real difference is that Golarion is a planet somewhere off in space in 'our' universe, whereas in Forgotten Realms, the prime material plane is wholly separate from our universe, but travel between them is possible and has happened.
>>719706749Are there seriously people who don't know that Golarion was originally a homebrewed setting for D&D 3.5e and that Paizo were originally a fangroup for D&D
>>719706921D&D still isn't that big, and new people get into the hobby all the time. Why is it surprising that not everyone is clear on the history and baggage?
>>719706995D&D IS that bigIgnoring that though people who frequent Owlcat shit should be more familiar with Paizo
>>719706921Some of Paizo's ACFs for D&D 3.5e are pretty cool, like the Crusader Cleric and stuff.
>>7197070715e dnd culture is that bighalf of them dont even playof those that do 90% wouldnt know what greyhawk isThere has been a theatre kid invasion of the /tg/ space for the past decade. Rather than staying in their white wolf containment they have flooded everything
>>719707129>of those that do 90% wouldnt know what greyhawk isSome do now that WotC is retconning everything that happened during the 3.5e living greyhawk era.
>>719707071Not big enough that the finer points of its history is well known anon. People joining up don't just instantly absorb decades worth of knowledge through osmosis.
>>719706921>fangroupPaizo were actually contracted to do the official Dungeon and Dragon magazines in the early 2000s. After the contract wasn't renewed in 2007 and 4e started happening, they just said fuck it and made their own game that was slightly modified 3.5e.
>>719707375tbf paizos core classes are a pretty noticeable step up form 3.5, since they were designed around not needing PrCs like 3.5However they copied all the bad math from 3.5...
>>719707091what does ACF mean?
>>719707491Alternate Class Feature.Think like the Pathfinder Archetypes, but smaller and more flexible.For example:>https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/classes/baseCore/cleric.html
>>719707491probably alternate class feature or something
>add an entire spell to your weapon attacks>get two attacks as soon as level 2>also get access to Magus Arcana for good measureHow is Eldritch Archer not vastly better than all other archer archetypes?
You people get "immersion broken" by different races.I get immersion broken by Lamashtu not putting a monster baby in my worshipper character's belly at any point to aid them.
>people bitching about Seelah's whole existence>people bitching about Golarion as a whole>people bitching about Nenio or Greybor's personalitiesIt's kinda funny in a way, it really shows why gatekeeping one's hobbies is fundamental and normies getting into them can only lead to the bastardisation and desecration of the things you know and likeAll this discussion should be kept in a small capsule and brought up whenever someones makes a "muh gatekeeping in vidya" thread, to show that this shithole truly has become worse than Twitter
>>719707965Imagine having all the weird monster sex stuff.
>>719707965>>719708175Lamahstu worshippers need to be cleansed with hellfire.
>>719707792worse bab, fewer feats which archers are starved for, bows have a worse crit range, you become more MAD although this isnt a big issue in WotR, and lack of great ray spells until hellfire rayBest Eldritch Archer Ive seen is with devil because of the infinite ray spam
>>719670996It will make you want to kill yourself until you hit Mythic 1, then it just keeps getting more and more overpowered.
>>719708238t. Curchanus
>>719679008what pozzed part is left after you fix the troon and nogs?there is still the economic advisor's retarded spiel about iron, I'll give you that
>>719685145>canuck englishFucking dropped
>>719708238Tsanna was the best advisor in Kingmaker.
>>719708097Im racist but i dont get hate on sheelah, she is nigger from africa also she act like one everything suits her.I enjoyed nenio and greybor(he is based as regill imo)
This game scratched my Lich power fantasy like nothing else. I kind of miss it.
How is the Relations and Romance mod?
>>719708097Golarion is a bad setting, although individual parts are fineSeelah is lame, and yes I know shes an iconic. The knight who doesnt want to be too knightly bit was already done with Valerie, it didnt need to be done again, and there are many better iconics to choose from.
>>719708917I'm using it now for the Nurah romance, will let you know in a few months when my run is complete.
>>719708917Oh yeah, that exists.Seconding the question I guess.
>>719708667Ameritroon spotted
>>719709034>Nurah romanceI will now download your mod
>>719708917I didnt know this existedcan a devil husband woo Minagho
>>719709003>The knight who doesnt want to be too knightly bitSeelah wishes she was knightly and valorous, that's her whole dealShe isn't because she wasn't born into it and obviously she's just a regular person that made mistakes and ended up in some really fucked up conditions that would shake anyone's resolveShe's the polar opposite of Valerie, anon-kun
>diversity token black dude with a strong accent whose questline involves two white women fighting over him>somehow the best character in the 100 hour game he's not even plot-relevant inhow does he do it?
>>719709268Racists respect racists regardless of raceI'm behind Ekun, total troll death
>>719709268I love Ekun "blanked the stolen lands with kobold glands" Dayo
>>719709268it's been so long but the only companion related thing I remember about KM is when the gnome embezzles your funds to buy a printing press and you can't do anything about it because she is the writer's pet
>>719709789Linzi is a Halfling, but yeah that part is retarded
>>719709240except she spends her whole questline fucking around with nonsense She should have been based like Hulrun
>>719709003>The knight who doesnt want to be too knightly bit was already done with ValerieSeelah is a redemptionfag that wants to see the good in everyone she fights alongside even if its to her detriment and prefers to be friends with people rather than adhere to strict military discipline as she's a traveling free paladin rather than a member of a specific order. Valerie is somebody who actively scorns religion because of her negative experiences with Paladins of Shelyn but still actively engages with some aspects of it and secretly loves her own beauty that she percieves as the cause of her childhood suffering. They are not even remotely the same.
>>719709974Rebellious to law in general vs Rebellious to her order, still the sameI want a paladin who will bring the lawI want Hulrun
>>719699592You have Geb labelled as "Also Wizards" when it should be labelled "Return of the Living Dead"
>>719710097Seelah isn't a rebel towards Iomedae in any sense of the word, she's always the first one to tell Ember to shut up whenever she's about to spout athiest shit about Iomedae. Valerie isn't a paladin. Hulrun is an inquisitor who was gaslight by a cultist who posed as his assistant into being paranoid and killing innocent people, like Ember's father. He isn't a bad guy but his overzealousness actively harms the crusade's unity.
>>719690387>its a very good questlineThe only thing noteworthy about the questline is the absolute piece of trash that is the Enigma>outside the dumb puzzlesThat IS the entire point of the quest you retard, you can't separate the two. Outside of that the "questline" doesn't exist, and Nenio doesn't do anything besives provide unfunny humor
>>719709872It's not fucking around with nonsense, it's exploring her own nature admits unnatural circumstances.She's the most regular living being in the KC's retinue and because of the whole Crusade's exceptional nature, she understandably ends up wracked with doubts about duty and responsibilityI'll give you a big hint: everyone who WILLINGLY (so no Daeran) chooses to follow the KC does so because of either: >autism (Ember/Lann/Nenio)>opportunism (Cam/Wendu/Woljif/Regill)The only other regular person in your retinue is Sosiel, and the guy's a fucking mess as well; the 5th Crusade is a spectacularly exceptional event, so it's only normal that an already troubled person like Seelah would come across as vulnerable and weak since that's human nature.Hulrun is repeatedly shown to be one of the most dangerous monkey-brained retards on your side of the Worldwound, so I'll take your follow-up as a joke
>>719710543>Hulrun is repeatedly shown to be one of the most dangerous monkey-brained retards on your side of the Worldwound, so I'll take your follow-up as a jokeLarpers on /vpol/ unironically think that religion-crazed fanatical murderers are based. I don't think he was joking.
>>719684653It's basically a updated version of 3.5 which will always be the most fun version of D&D. Literally no one gives a shit about pathfinder 2e except for 4e wargamer fags.
>>719710543>autismWhat does this even mean? And Regill isn't an opportunist, he, just like Seelah, is there to defeat the demons and that's it
>>719710835NTA, but Regill ONLY joins you because he sees you as an opportunity to fight against the demons. Or to cull you, if you prove to be a detriment to the war. So he is sort of an opportunist.
>>719711002>regill only joins you because he sees an opportunity to do the thing the crusade is supposed to dowoaaahh..
>>719711056Regill openly thinks that crusaders are fucking retards and the queen is an even bigger retard. That's why he jumped at the opportunity to assist someone possibly more competent in leading the crusade.
>>719711112Regill is 100% concentrated unstretched autism juice
>>719711112So, not opportunism. What is your definition of opportunism? A retarded serial killer that uses an even more retarded leader to protect her? A retarded thief that betrays everyone he knows but this time he's being hunted by a demon so he decides to stay for protection? Regill is literally the only companion besides Seelah with no agenda other than "demons bad, defeat demons" the other good companions have a personal motivation for being there, even if they still want to defeat the demons and close the worldwound because it's the right thing to do
>>719710543>most dangerous monkey-brained retards>right about KC being suspicious when they first arrive injured>right about a cult under Kenabres that Anevia refused to investigate>right about the dreams the Desnans receive being from demons even if she is "redeemed">fights off multiple nabasu >brings the wardstone to Drezen>correctly suspects Cam for being a murderhobo>successfully defends your banner when you return from the Abyss and is actually happy to see you again unlike the bitch queenHulrun slander is literally just parroted by retarded redditors seething about muh Ember. Sure he may be gung-ho but given the circumstances and how all it takes is another dumbass like Staunton for Kenabres to fall. The second and third crusade where most people were incorrectly sent to the stake was also infested with demon cultists who had infiltrated the city.
>>719711293My definition of opportunism is someone who uses any presented opportunity to further his own goals. Which makes Regill somewhat of an opportunist.
>>719711329>It's a Hulruntard desperately grasp at straws trying to pretend that he was right about something episodeAh yes, the classic Hulrunbro modus operandi>retarded redditorsYou'd be surprised by how many retarded redditors that defend him there are
>>719711329>his first reaction to anything is violent interrogation or burning at stake>h-he's actually based because sometimes he's rightYou fucking retards think that anything which doesn't involve extreme brutality at first glance is "reddit". You're a fucking psychopath, not better than a wild american nigger.
Hulrun is a retard that was warned not once, but twice, about the only thing protecting the city being possibly broken and he dismissed both warnings because >nooooo it's a gift from my goddess it could never malfunction! This is blasphemy!
>>719710160Speaking of Geb, it would have been neat to have an Evil Iconic to counter Seelah being the Good Iconic like the Dhampir Necromancer from there who wants to find her own new form of undead eternal life or the cruel Inquisitor of the god of pain who can make anyone talk or the Hellknight who is self-explanatory
>>719711712>Waifu>Hellraiser>Darth Seelah
>>719673349>Hating the best tabletop system in 20 yearsFiltered. Kys midwit
>>719711467>>719711570>combats none of his established feats, defaults to an attack on his personalityAzatards aren't sending their best.
>>719712160Azata is trash braindead retard, I didn't combat anything because I already know how retarded you are and arguing with you is pointless, last reply
>>719703452>How do I reliably land ray spells as a wizardYou grab Precise Strike (along with spell penetration if you don't have it for some reason). Then you buff up your Blaster Caster just like you buff your martials.Dexterity should also be your second highest stat after you casting stat because it governs your attack stat and your initiative, both of which are super important for blaster casters.>True StrikeYou should literally never be using that anyway
>>719711878Waifu wants to forge her own path to power instead of being her father's pawn before returning home to her evil nation where evil undead rule (her staff (which was given to her as a gift from her dad when she graduated necromancy school the night before she left) was made from the bones of her living human harem slave mother whom she was given to feed on and kill when she came of age to be presented to high society btw)Hellraiser is Hellraiser with no real expansion on that one neededDarth Seelah is pretty much just taller and darker Regill with a vag since Hellknights aren't exactly big on the whole individualism or nonconformity thing
>>719711708>guys the wardstone is corrupted we need to turn it off>"uhh you know the second we do we'll get instagibbed by demons right?">shut up and let me in
>>719710653Hulrun is literally always right The crusade is only successful because of Areelu and Noticula frankenstein-ing a demigod, naivety has led to every other crusade failing most notably StautonThe last thing the crusade needs is a bleeding heart paladin like Seelah to welcome cultists into the city
>>719711329>"Hey nigga they will attack the sword of valor and everyone there will die, can you go there to protect it?">"Sorry KC, *smirks* I only take orders from our retard queen. Let's roll out boys! *everyone in the sword of valor fucking dies and Hulrun is nowhere to be seen in Iz*"I hate that motherfucker.
>>719704403>Yeah, there should've been a high-elven wizardThe Others and the Children of the Forest are literally that in the story lol>casting spellsA Song of Ice and Fire has Blood Magic (Resurrections, Undead), Shadow Magic (Demonic Summoning), Fire Magic (Future Sight, Immunity to poison, Flaming Swords), Water Magic (Dornish mages can allegedly control water), Divination (Green sight), and Mine Control (Warging)>and an orcRobert Strong is basically an undead orc at this point. He's human in name only considering he's undead, 2 feet taller than a normal man, and he wields a hundred pound greatswords with one hand>warlockLiterally Qyburn
we talk about minmax builds all the time, but what do you think fits the story the best?
>>719712403>Areelu>The one who made the worldwound in the first place as part of a multi step plan.
>>719712403The last thing the crusade needs is a fanatical zealot executing half of the fucking army for the mildest of offenses.
>>719712383>we need to turn it offThey never said that>shut up and let me inThey also don't want to do it themselves. They SPECIFICALLY warn Hulrun so HE's the one who does something, but he ignores them, the Desnians never intended to "fix" the Wardstone themselves, nor did they ever want to turn it off, whatever that means. They even tell you that they had absolutely no plan whatsoever once they decided to sneak in to try and fix it, they never intended to do it, it's why they warned the authorities about it (which promptly ignored them) Classic Hulrunbro speedreading
>>719712591Angel because they literally get a skill named "Wrath of the Righteous", then legend to properly deal with your mommy issues.
>>719712591Probably an Angel Paladin.
I may have installed too many mods.My game takes something like 5 minutes to start and get to the main menu.It doesn't crash though. Works just fine in game.
>>719708240>bows have a worse crit range,??? all archers can take improved critical
>>719712591Demon > legend barbarian/bloodrager, obviously
>>719712403>Hulrun is literally always rightIf you look at Hulrun's stats in Act I, you'll literally see that his wisdom was drained and he wasn't thinking clearly
>>719712646Regill, kill this anon for being a retard.>>719712607And without her continuing to meddle it would have never been closed, Deskari and Baphomet would sweep over the area eventually while naive crusaders keep falling into their traps
>>719712591Depends on the mythic path>Divine Caster or Paladin for Angel>Arcane or Martial for Azata>Anything that lets you be Lawful for Aeon or Devil.>Any class not tied to a god or alignment for trickster>Sorcerer, Scalefist Monk, Dragon Disciple or Eldritch Scion for Gold Dragon>Arcane caster for Lich>Anything except something tied to a God for Demon
>>719711329>>719712403Yea and if Hulrun had his way there would be no 5th crusade since Kenabres would have fallen a few centuries ago due to not there being anyone left alive to defend it.Hulrun is like a retarded 40k Inquisitor, except he's in the wrong setting and he will never be even half as based as Jimmy; blind zealotry doesn't work in an universe where multiple Gods are indirectly intervening, and I'm fairly sure that Iomedae would not be pleased with slaughtering the local head priest of an extremely powerful allied Goddess during one of the most threatening demonic victories to date AS WELL AS the chosen of yet another Empyreal Lord of good.It's especially funny you mention the other crusades, considering the 3rd one was an enormous failure since it mostly involved inquisitors slaughtering local tribes for the fuck of it instead of, y'know, dealing with the demonsRegill is a pragmatic asshole who has an actual plan to win this fucking thing, Hulrun's an idealistic tantrum-throwing child
>>719712761Sorry I was thinking better than other magus archetypes, which can use melee 18-20 weaponsAlthough I think bow fighter still gets a higher crit range
>should I look inside and realize I might be a bit too overzealous and blinded by my faith?>no! I will accuse the followers of one of the goodiest good goddesses of being demon worshippers for trying to warn me and save my ass and go murder them!
>>719711329>right about the dreams the Desnans receive being from demons even if she is "redeemed"Arue was a literal agent of Desna, one of the few good goddesses willingly to intervene in mortal affairs
>>719712868She opened the wound in the first place as part of a plan to ressurect her son and then ascend to godhood with him, she never at any point intended for anyone to be able to close the worldwound until her plan was complete which is why she never told Noticula about her soul being tied to the wound until the last act.
>>719712668Didn't Hulrun state that the Desnans have come to him multiple times spouting their crap and nothing has come to pass?
>>719712996>>no! I will accuse the followers of one of the goodiest good goddesses of being demon worshippers for trying to warn me and save my ass and go murder them!Hulrun is a zealot, he only cares about Iomeade and just like the average Lawtard that defends him, he hates chaotic good and anything related to that alignment on principle. Not just that, but he can't even recognize Andoletta was Ember's patron deity, a fucking demigod from the same plane as Iomedae.
>>719713047Don't forget that she also tries to kill you which means not closing the Worldwound, and failing that, she tries to kill herself just to spite you
>>719712978>no you see if we kill all the cultists we're gonna run out of peopleRetarded
>>719712591>but what do you think fits the story the best?Cleric Crusader of Iomeade if you're roleplaying a righteous hero kingSkald if you're roleplaying a reincarnation of Areluu's son who was a bard.Bloodrager if you're roleplaying a man consumed by rage Wizard if you're roleplaying an Aeon obsessed with restoring the cosmic balance of the worldWizard again if you're a Lich Bard if you're an Azata because it's a plot point that you sing with the Desna priests and later ArueDemonslayer and Fighter for a Legend to represent someone at their martial peak who can slay gods and demon lords through merit aloneDevil, Trickster, and Golden Dragon can be any class
>>719713047>all that hard work and scheming to become a godWhy does she not simply trap one, kick his ass, and eat him to steal his domains like Mommy Lamashtu did?
>>719712978>and I'm fairly sure that Iomedae would not be pleasedHe can literally kill him just fine and Iomedae doesn't do anything about it, she very clearly gives her inquisitors a lot of leeway
>>719713074>Didn't Hulrun state that the Desnans have come to him multiple times spouting their crap and nothing has come to pass?Yup. The fall of the city is on him, but Hulrunfags will never admit that. Desna and Arue were literally trying to warn the city that the wardstones were compromised, which meant the protection for the city was going to fall. Hulrun ignored this and imprisoned anyone who tried to fix the stones. Which led to the wardstones getting weaker. And then what a suprise! The city fucking fell.
>>719712868>Regill, kill this anon for being a retard.Regill would heavily disagree with Hulrun's fanatical proceedings. He even acknowledges very early in his quest that he's not keen on abandoning or killing soldiers who may still prove useful.
>>719712978>the 3rd one was an enormous failure since it mostly involved inquisitors slaughtering local tribesYou mean the one which was explicitly stated to have been infiltrated by Baphomet's cultists? The one where you can find a confession in the Ivory Sanctum stating that multiple innocents had been sent to burn by cultist hands? >>719713129>Andoletta was Ember's patron deityDo we know whether she was her patron before she got burned?
>>719713493>Do we know whether she was her patron before she got burned?Andoletta is the patron of her family, but it doesn't matter because I'm talking about act 1 where Hulrun goes >nooooo she's not an innocent child look at her!and he's right, but he's incapable of realizing which deity favors of her, while you can.
>Hulrun is based>says the anon who would be the first in line to get executed by Hulrun if somehow he found himself in the game's world
>>719713562Andoletta isn't a god but she's a good aligned being regardless.
>>719712978If you do the True Aeon ending, you get a good look at how Hulrun is actually meant to be. He's nice, and not a zealous asshole trying to purge everyone. The worldwound stole what should have been his life away.
>>719713493>No you see Baphomet got involved so that totally absolves the inquisitors of being involved in the worst crusade to date
>>719709268He's insanely based. If you take him on Regongar's side quest, he subtly prepares himself to execute Regongar when the half orc starts sperging out and acting like he's going to betray the party. And if you make him your spy master, he gets rid of all the spies in your land by infiltrating their order, baiting them all into going into one location, and then bombing them all to smithereens. He's also 100% right about the trolls. They all gotta go, and only a fool would let them live.
>>719713641Demigods are still deities
>>719713483Trusting Arue is literally insaneShe is a 1 in a billion and even then can fall back to evil Youre blinded by meta knowledge
>>719713960>Trusting Arue is literally insaneA literal goddess vouches for her and she's happy to prove Arue's validity through divine symbolism and dreams
>the gods are afraid of directly getting involved in mortal matters because they're scared of destroying entire worlds fighting with their infinite power for an inevitable draw or accidentally letting the all-consuming Rovagug out of the Toostie Roll center of Golarion so they let this demon proxy war crusade shit happenPathfinder lore is neat
>>719713074No, he in fact says that some of the things they warn him about do come to pass, but then he proceeds to immediately dismiss them as he always does saying that intelligence reports are more reliable. Mind you the Wardstone is extremely important for the city's protection so even if there was a small chance of it being broken something should be done about it, and the Storyteller warned him too so it wasn't just the Desnians. So no, you can't just casually ignore such a warning like that, unless you're retarded.
>>719713483This is just the boy who cried wolf. Funnily enough if you keep telling someone something bad is about to happen and then nothing happens they will start to ignore you even when there may be merit. >The fall of the city is on himI wouldn't go that far. Sure he fucked up in this instance not listening to the desnans but they didn't help their case by being retards the previous time. Also even if he did believe them there's not much they could do. You needed the purple knife made of Deskari's blood or the KC to calm them down both of which are mythic power based. I don't see anyone being able to do that within such a short time frame. >>719713562>he's incapable of realizing which deity favorsBy that point Hulrun is exhausted and has been drained by fighting multiple Nabasus. If you pass the check I think it mentions his wisdom was heavily drained and he's exhausted hence why he's sitting near the hole in the ground. You also don't figure out what deity favours her since all you see is a crow with her that doesn't mean much without irl knowledge.
>>719713960Why are you so obsessed with her? This is act 1, they have no idea who is acting as a mole on the demons' side.
>>719714045Demonic trickeryTrusting a succubus is insanity.
>>719714047I like the implication that Aroden, the human god of prophecy and fate, let himself die so that humans could have true will and no longer have their lives be bound by destiny and fate.
>>719714084>Funnily enough if you keep telling someone something bad is about to happen and then nothing happens they will start to ignore you even when there may be meritOh fuck off
>>719714245Yeah that's my bad I misremembered the scene. Hulrun fucked up there no way around it, if they are sometimes accurate then that warrants investigating.
>"Anon, it's time to renounce your cool powers.">"B-but why...?">"Did I stutter?">"N-no, honey..." "There. Will you help us now win the war?">"Ofc not. Bye."WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?
>>719714220They don't know who was feeding then information and according to Ramien Desna wouldn't have allowed anyone to mess with their dreams due to how close they are to the Worldwound, and he's right.
If the followers of the goddess of prophetic dreams told me about the fucked up dreams they had, I would simply look into the matter instead of sperging and calling them a bunch of demon cock sucking heretical retards who should all find the nearest ooze to jump inside, but maybe I'm just built different.
Iomaede should've taken away Hulrun's powers when he went full retard. She shares the blame because she let him think that she was approving of his actions. After all, if he were wrong, then wouldn't his patron deity strip him of his powers? That'd be my thought process if I were Hulrun.
>>719714394She gives you her reasoning pretty clearly though
>>719714394Is the cult of Iomedae made up entirely of jealous stupid bitches?
>>719713483The city was going to fall no matter what, you can't do anything when a demon lord cuts the entire fucking city in half, and the Wardstone can only be fixed by your mary sue character. He's still a retard for ignoring them, but the city was doomed regardless, at best if they found out anything they could have evacuated or something.
>>719698064I mean niggers clash with European aesthetic, yes. you can write all the lore dumps you want about how they totes belong they will still clash with italso all the iconics are trash
>>719714852Are you just mad because niggers clash with your mama's pussy every night?
>>719714852>niggers clash with European aestheticAnd dragons, undead, living gods and shit don't?What kind of new mental illness is this?
>>719714735>She gives you her reasoning pretty clearly thoughHer reasoning is retarded. She tells you the powers are of demonic origin and that you'll probably die if you keep using them. Who gives a fuck? Those demonic powers are the only thing standing between mortals and total annihilation because the gods quite literally can't physically help mortals in their struggle versus the demons. May I remind you that pic related is LITERALLY what happens if your commander doesn't use those "horrible" demonic powers to save the world? It gives you a monthly break down of how fast the world will fall if the worldwound isn't closed From a narrative standpoint, there's no reason to give up your powers. You have no guarantee that you'll still be able to fight demigods and demon lords if you become a normal mortal again. And if you can't, you've stupidly doomed the world to sate the ego of a retarded goddess
>>719715047>May I remind you that pic related is LITERALLY what happens if your commander doesn't use those "horrible" demonic powers to save the world?Tabletop image, no abyssam mythic power there, doesn't count
>>719715117That pic is literally what happens if the player character with mythic power doesn't intervene
>>719715047>literally can'tThey CAN. It just wouldn't end well because if Iomedae steps in, then Lamashtu will step in, then Sarenrae will step in, then Gorum will step in, then Zon-Kuthon will step in, etc etc until there's a whole big god war and every mortal on Golarion is remembering the good old days of demonic invasion before getting erased from existence by some godly attack.
>>719715047>Her reasoning is retardedI don't care if you think it's retarded or not, she still gives it to you and it's up to you to agree or disagree. Being given a choice is certainly better than the so called Hand of the Inheri"bro" who dumps your ass in the abyss treating you like a traitor in cahoots with Areelu even though you had no idea about the origins of your powers
Before the thread dies, is this good for an Angel run?
>>719715260>with mythic powerThat's not abyssal in origin, can you read bro?
>>719706039man this cover looks gay af
>>719715397The abyssal power is WHY your character has mythic abilities. You're not mythic without it
Toybox has the option of talking more than one class per level and going all the way to level 40.What's a fun build for a cheat run on Unfair?For example, what is a character you couldn't otherwise make work that would work taking two classes per level and keeping the better statistics (bab, saving throws, skill points) of each?
>>719715485in the tabletop your mythic powers are not abyssal, Areelu didn't make them
>>719715492You can already do that with Legend though, without cheating.
>>719715318longsword is better for thematic reasons
>>719715532That's late game as hell.
>>719715534Sure, but the guy has a flaming greatsword in his portrait.
>>719715534Scimitar is even better because of the crit profile and the holy sword, Dawnflower. Longswords are a meme imo. Radiance is good but it'll never compete with other swords due to it's shitty crit profile
>>719715047>becomes goddess>still can't overcome inherent woman logical reasoning disadvantage
>>719715624>Radiance is good but it'll never compete with other swords due to it's shitty crit profilethat's why I said for thematic reasons
>>719715318try oracle instead of clericalso, as someone who played kingmaker as a crusader, it's kinda meh as a cleric subclass, you lose a lot of magic power and you're still aren't as good at fighting as actual martial classes due to lower BAB
>>719716338I wanted to try a more martial class and I wanted to be able to merge with Angel, so Paladin is out. And I don't understand Oracles, are they Divine caster equivalent of a Sorcerer? With their whole mysteries and revelations instead of Bloodlines and Spontaneous casting?
>>719715603ain't that a bastard sword?
>>719716338>as someone who played kingmaker as a crusader, it's kinda meh as a cleric subclass, you lose a lot of magic powerIt works better in Wrath thanks to the merged spellbook.But yeah, Oracle is a lot stronger.>>719716474>are they Divine caster equivalent of a Sorcerer?Pretty much.
>>719716474no, they're half martial like clerics, they're spontaneous clerics (which is also thematically good for an aasimar, they also have an exclusive subclass for aasimar that makes you gives you armor training like a fighter, at the end of the day you end up with a shitton more spells to use
>>719716582they're really more spontaneous cleric, because they have 3/4 BAB and 1d8 of HP like clerics, sorcerers have half BAB and 1d6 HP per level
>>719716474If you go Oracle, consider going Battle + Nature Oracle. Battle for the extra martial feats and Nature for the Charisma to AC and pet
>>719716884Yes. I read what anon wrote as them being to Clerics as Sorcerers are to wizards, but that wasn't the case.
>>719716490Stop triggering my autism please>>719716582>>719716642>>719716907Yeah, but they are more casty than smashy with a sword, even if I take the Battle Mystery.>>719717064>I read what anon wrote as them being to Clerics as Sorcerers are to wizardsThat's exactly what I meant though.
>>719715318>Yeah, but they are more casty than smashy with a sword, even if I take the Battle Mystery.they're more or less similar to the basic cleric, but you end up with a lot more spells even compared to the normal cleric, let alone the crusader that both renounces to a domain and has reduced spellcastingalso, whatever you end up choosing, don't forge you need at least charisma 13 for selective channel
