Banjo-Tooie does not need a map. It doesn't need a "quest tracker". YOU need to put the smartphone down, and pay the fuck attention to where things are.
>>719684245Based Tooie enjoyer. I too have an IQ above 115.
>>719684245At the time of release my mom only let me play 30 minutes of video games a day, so this wasn't possible to finish
>>719684245got every single jiggy minus the canary mary cloud cuckoo RIGGED piece of shit as a 10 year old. was a very fun and rewarding game otherwise
I want to like Banjo Tooie but with the shitty minigames and the constant back and forth it's just not that fun. The objectives aren't difficult they're just tedious. If you play it for the first time I can easily see someone getting frustrated from the constant fucking roadblocks that force you to revisit stages.The move that lets you slam kazooie into the ground is hilarious though.For some reason revisiting it I thought the dragon kazooie had different nicer dialogue since I hadn't played it since I was a kid
>>719684245Banjo Kazooie was better anyways. Tooie feels like they took all the ideas that didn't make the cut and made them into levels, while losing all the genuine charm in favor of ironic humor. Out of all the classic Rare games, Tooie easily has the least soul.
>>719684861Even though Tooie is definitely a more cynical Rare and markedly less lightheartedly whimsical I'd still argue it's a very charming game with a lot of heart.
>>719684245>map>quest trackerLITERALLY who the fuck ever asked for this?
>>719685469todd howard
just having general area names w/ the teleporter helps the user digest the layout of the area, and internalize it without use of a map.
>>719685469many MANY fucking people say this game needed them
The Banjo-Tooie hate is so forced
>>719684245Banjo Tooie predated ADHD diagnoses though, it's medically impossible to enjoy Banjo games now.
>>719685712The hate is warranted, but for the wrong reason. The backtracking and interconnected worlds are what make the game good, but the Mumbo and minigame sections drag it down.
>>719686121>minigamesi dunno what's worse, the dodgems or beaver bother in DK64lvl3 dodgem is absolute cancer but at least the minigame isn't broken
you niggas weren't kidding with the Super Banjo cheat, this game is so much more enjoyable now, I hope I can finally enjoy Grunty Industries, I've always liked the style to that world, but I usually get filtered by it
>>719686879I hate dk64's mini-games far more than tooie's
>>719688329I KNOOOOOOW why the fuck why is it not default speed holy shit
>>71968435030 minutes is not enough for anything. Your mom was a dumb bitch.
>>719684245Nothing needs a quest tracker or map markers. It just turns the entire exploration into "here, we marked shit on the map for you, just get to it".
Since when was the issue getting lost and not the maps being a chore to traverse even WITH warp pads because they're big for the sake of being big? Even the devs said they prioritized that.
>>719685469Given how much more of an adventure style game Tooie is, I don't think a map is that unreasonable or out of place. Quest tracker's pushing it, though. Reminder that Tooie DOES have a sort of quest tracker, but it's hidden behind an obscure cheat that you can only get from Madame Grunty randomly in Witchyworld, and then you have to use signs in Jiggywiggy's Temple to access them. And even then, they just tell you the locations of the jiggies. Meanwhile the XBLA version does actually have a real quest tracker in the pause menu that you can access at any time.>>719691532>maps being a chore to traverse even WITH warp padsI disagree. When you learn the layout of the map and know where everything is, it's trivial to get from point A to B with warp pads in most cases. The only really egregious example is Terrydactyland. Every other Tooie world really isn't that big. They're just mostly empty, which I believe is the real issue with Tooie. Note nests were a mistake, and I will die on this hill. Say what you will about DK64, but at least there's always something happening on screen when you're going from place to place. Tooie didn't need to go that far with collectables, obviously, but having more things to actually collect when you're walking around worlds would've helped immensely.
I'm only okay with the inclusion of maps in games like this if it's impossible to have the map when you first enter. The point of these games needs to be exploration, if you instantly give them a map they'll get glued to it and never develop their own mental framework of the level. If you just tell people where shit is right away A) it removes a lot of the emotional "wow i wonder what's over there" factor, and B) it robs a great deal of joy out of collecting shit when you are told explicitly where to go and what to do, your movements become mechanical and it just becomes marking down a list of chores. no discovery. not fun.On the other hand, maps are clearly very useful when the player is always 50-90% done with the level and they just wanna clean up and move on. It prevents them from getting bored and just spinning their wheels aimlessly. Just make it so when the player gets the map it's always somewhat late into the level.
>>719691532give banjo a long jump and the ability to kick/bounce off walls in a fun way
>>719684245I only ever got confused at cloud world when I was a kid I ended up doing everything else in tooie
>>719692920I'm the biggest dicksucker of SM64's controls and physics but honestly when I think about it I may sorta appreciate that Banjo controls quite different.
>>719691509but anon, then we need good level design so people don't have their eyes clued to the map all the time and look at the game world instead. that's HARD.
>>719693625Only because industry keeps digging themselves deeper into open world affairs. There's definitely fatigue about it now.
I was thinking about Warp Pads a few nights ago for whatever reason and wondering how they could be done better -- without over-simplifying them. I don't want you to be able to warp anytime by clicking icons on a map for example, cuz I don't like the idea of the player not engaging with the world in front of them. I want the experience to be smoother without completely just being a get-out-of-jail free card. They can walk to the nearest pad ffs, it forces the player to remember where the pads are at least.I don't think the solution is to add more pads, it kinda devalues them. But I did notice there's a whole bunch of areas in the game where you DON'T want a Warp Pad cuz they're not important enough locations, but they still ARE the kind of place you might want to warp to once in a blue moon, for whatever niche reason. I think one-way warps accessible from Warp Pads could work.Let's say there's little blue warp Glowbos (or whatever fucking macguffin) littered across the map, and when you get one it creates a nexus point you can access via Warp Pad. But it's strictly a one-way trip, and it either costs something or has some other limiting factor that prevents you from abusing it all the time. This would be great for a lot of stuff you wouldn't want to dedicate a whole-ass Warp Pad to like "I want to go up to Saucer of Peril but don't want to take the cable car / please don't make me have to walk Mumbo all the way to make the tiny dino child bigger / which fucking cave was waterfall cavern just take me there real quick / I want to get to cheat code chamber a bit quicker"
>>719685712B-BUT IT M-M-MADE ME GO BACK TO A P-P-PREVIOUS LEVEEEEEELLLLLLLLLABLOOHOOHOOOOOOOH
>have 10 normal golden jiggies per world>make them designed so that you can always get all 10 of them on the first visit (and tell the player this) and they're usually simple BK-style tasks>all other collectable types are also always obtainable first visit, except......>ADDITIONALLY have 3-5 special backtrack jiggies per world, that are an entirely different kind of jiggy, worth 2 jiggies each>these are usually designed to be much more clever and harder to get, in addition to being impossible to obtain on the first visit. They are very challenging or take a lot of effort>if the player wants to beat the game without backtracking they can do so by just getting all the normal gold jiggies, and never backtrack. If they want to get to the end of the game much quicker and less linearly, they can go back for the special jiggies and be rewarded 2x for the extra effort they're taking to backtrack to the old levels, give them bonuses, also granting them more opportunities to sequence break stuff if they know the game well.Did I fix?
>>719691461it's enough for candy crush
>>719684245the best Banjo game is Grunty's Revenge and I'm sick of pretending otherwise
>>719686121>>719686879the minigames in Tooie are great. Boss fights too. They're a great break from the easiest platforming in the world.
Having to remember where things are isn't bad but the constant backtracking just isn't fun when coupled with the movement being so uninteresting and things so spread out. Even worse when you start getting into split up pads/Wumba transformations/Mumbo shenanigans, having to use all those abilities in succession might give you some satisfaction when you figure the sequence out in your head, but then executing it is often a slog.
>>719684245Weren't they adding a map and fast travel to Replaylee? That's basically admitting you don't know how to design 3D platformer levels.
>>719684245Alright buddy, place yourself in a random area in Terrydactyland and see if you can get your bearings. Hell, try finding the Dino Family cave.
