>>720119920
there are better entries but SMT5 is fine

Yes. Just don't expect too much story exposition compared to most JRPGs.

I liked it. I got the secret ending of the Cretion route yesterday, it was pretty cool.

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consult the graph if you please

>>720122584
Any graph that has Rebirth on S tier is automatically invalidaded to me.

>>720119920
>good combat
yes
>cool story
lol

>>720119920
Not a cool story but a pretty decent explorathon jrpg

If you want a cooler setting and story, check out SMT4

If you like it and want more of that, play SMT3

If you want something more viscerally dungeon crawling, Play Strange Journey

If you want the roots, just play SMT1, it still holds up
If you absolutely fucking love backtracking and you want a really cool setting, SMT2

>>720123072
>Not a cool story
grown man
calling me shounen
not a cool story

I may be stupid, but how is Aogami both artificial and Susano at the same time?

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>>720119920
Combat, music and level design are good. Story and characters? These fucking suck.

The setting itself is good but the characters are just there and the story is not only non-existent but halfway through it it just stops. The main antagonists gone, your friends die, 1 betrays you (only comes back a few hours later for you to kill him) and there's like 30 hours more of game after this event till you get to the end of the game where there is absolutely no story or character interactions at all. Nothing.

This game got a lots of 8's and 9's and I have no idea how this even happened, this game feels unfinished even its Vengeance form. It don't deserve those scores. If you actually want a Jrpg with decent story, characters and combat then just play FF7R or E33. Even Ys X is a better choice unless you just want to grind and grind and autistically customize demonic pokemons, then SMTV is a decent choice but if you're expecting more than that then avoid it like the plague.

>>720119920
It has very fun combat and you can basically use any demon until endgame if you really want to. What I hated that there are basically no fucking dungeons and every zone is basically the same shit with a different coat of paint. Maybe VV fixes that. I didn't bother with it yet.

>>720119920
No

My only real issue is that trying to get to places on the map is awful when it has some verticality and I have no idea how to get anywhere unless I press birds-eye view every 20 steps and zoom in to see if there's a path I can't see.
Other than that, it's solid.

>>720119920
Yeah it's the best game.

>>720123902
This is kind of true even in mythology where the Amatsukami are made when Izanagi cleanses himself of the impurities from his trip to Yomi. This just rolls with it and says the Gods are infinitely MP as a Government project.

>>720123902
The Protofiends are containers to hold a god's powers and consciousness that also acts as an interface that makes it easier for a partner to merge with them

>>720119920
The gameplay is great and there are a good amount of tutorials for how to do things. The story isn't great no matter which route you choose.
The one thing that makes me hesitant to reccomend the game to a newcomer is that it's a sequel to another game in the series. You'll be missing quite a few references that make things make more sense, but I guess it's not that big a deal.

>>720126417
That's what I thought, but Koshimizu does call him his brother like he hasn't been one copy of at least 12.
Granted I haven't played Vengeance yet so they might go in a bit deeper but I don't know why it's couldn't have just been Susano or why he's artificially made when he could just reincarnate. It's not like he needed to be the robot form in order to become the Beeno, Dazai and Atsuta could do it just fine with their respective demon.

>>720119920
There's very little story in a lot of mainline SMT games, and this is arguably the worst. Gameplay is the best, and it's going to suck to go back to copy pasted hallways and random encounters if you start with V.

>>720127051
Koshimizu is himself a protofiend, it's not clear if he's the same Tsukuyomi model from ancient times.

>>720119920
No, because 90% of the franchise will feel like a downgrade.

>VV has the worst story
>Competent theming
>Interesting central concept (a world where Lucifer succeeded and now has no God and the drama this causes)
>Really allignment characters with nuanced takes that actually interact and argue with each other instead of existing in a vacuum, and all the allignments are presented as viable but flawed instead of LAW/Chaos super extremes Neutral pure good snow flake that other recent games (cough cough IV) take.
>Good use of mythology where demons all feel in character with their Mythos, and demons feature very prominently in their story.


Where did the meme that VV has a bad story even come from? I know V was extremely sparse on information but that isn't even the case anymore. Meanwhile everyone says IV has a good story. What the actual fuck is this? IV has like 4 times the number of dropped plot lines as V with none of the nuance. IV has more story, as in more cutscenes, not better story.

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>>720119920
>SMT
>cool story
Pick one or play Persona. SMT is for dullards who dont care if their 100 hour JRPG does not have a meaningful story and characters.

I wish Dazai wasn't such a dweeb until like 90% in. I would have liked it if you saw him grow a bit more throughout instead of doing an Aizen out of nowhere.

>>720119920
You won't get a cool story with modern SMT, but the new path in VV is as close as you'll get unless you go all the way back to Nocturne at least. For good combat though, SMT is the go-to, and it only gets better with each new game. Anything older than Nocturne doesn't have the signature press turn system but it's still pretty good.

>>720119920
Depends on your tolerance for random encounters
>im a zoomer and I hate random encounters
Start with smt5
>i don’t mind random encounters
Start with smt3
>i can’t play a game that doesn’t have modernized anime graphics
start with smt5 and dont touch any of the older games
>i need my game to have a story
Play persona 3 reload and skip smt entirely

If you’re in a middle ground of all of those then try Metaphor Refantazio

>>720122584
FFXVI is not an rpg, I have no idea why you made this graph if you wanted to be taken seriously

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How the fuck do I beat this dude? He crits pretty much every time. Is he just for NG+?

>>720127710
People were so off put on Vanilla V's story they retroactively started thinking better of IV's story. And of course the fact that Vanilla V's story is also present in VV more or less unchanged limits how much the new route's improvments actually affect people's opinions.

>>720119920
It has the best combat in the series. But if you want something more story focused then the Digital Devil Saga is your best bet.

>>720122584
Way to tell the whole board you're a certified retard.

>>720128773
Resist. Resist prevents crit. You don't want null+ because if he can't land a hit he'll execute you're ass with almighty. I had Bino act as a tank (Luminescent Mirage) with King of Tales while everyone supported him, then unload with Parselene Blur since he has a natural weakness to elements

>>720129495
>You don't want null+ because if he can't land a hit he'll execute you're ass with almighty
That's exactly what I did, I had Beelzebub with almost every null and some repels and tainted him but he Megido'd me to hell.

>>720119920
Didn't it have another update a few months back?

>>720119920
>Is pic related a good entry point into SMT?
Eh.
Its general vibes feel like a shitty hybrid between SMT and Persona, the original story path is a mess, and the newer one is better but not by much.
It does have the best gameplay in the series though.
I'd say 3 and 4 are better entry points.

>>720130020
Last update came out in November.

>It's another story bad thread
At this point I think the story was only written from a perspective only the Japanese can understand. So few of them make these complaints but with english speakers it's constant confusion.

>>720119920
>fun JRPG with good combat a cool story
VV is light on story elements and makes you play detective with side conversations to piece together the bigger picture but the gameplay is some of the most fun in the series. I'd also recommend 4/4:A as a duology entry point

>>720127950
Persona is for people who'd rather a toonami saturday morning children's cartoon. Nobody 'plays' persona

>>720130020
It needs another update to fix the switch 2 issues but who knows if they'll do it.

>>720134140
No one is confused about the story itself, it's simply poorly developed.
And so are the characters.
CoV tried to address this, and it did, hence why it's generally regarded as the better story path.

>>720134605
Persona has tons of gameplay though, in fact most of the story game is still making decisions and those decisions are all directly tied to your abillities and stats in the dungeon. You're right about it being structured around episodic monster of the week shows.

>>720136256
>we're not confused
>claims confusion
>says it's the story's fault
Lol

I think it's neat. Miyazu a cute.

>>720137615
She's too obsessed with her brother's involvement with the prime minister. She needs to focus on her own relationship. (and dying from super cancer)

>>720136295
>Persona has tons of gameplay
Genuinely none of it is engaging in the least. Dungeons are copy paste and highlight how boring one more system us very quick. Grinding these for 70 hours is maximum tedium. The way you break up this tedium is with social links which is just choosing what conversation you want to play out with no impactful decision making. So unless you're invested in the tropey shitty characters, you're breaking up braindead dungeon crawling with similarly tedious conversations. Persona relies on you being invested in the setting and characters because it won't do anything to get your attention with it's gameplay. They should have just gone with press turn.

>>720138212
I'd be pretty concerned as well if my onii-san started hanging out a lot with a grown man with a lot of money, even if I had the Japanese Cold.

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>>720138674
>how boring the one more system is
Only because its blatantly obvious how to break it and you can easily do it halfway into any persona game
>auto-mabuff personas means you don’t have to setup buffs at all
>dekaja and dekunda are worthless outside of saving a bit of sp
>between level calculation added to the formula and a plethora of passives the damage you take becomes miniscule, in p3r alone you had a x0.8 multiplier on any weakness damage anyone takes completely passively
>bosses have way to little hp
>in the case of p3 and 4 their general solution is to just make bosses not weak to anything
The one thing p3r did right is that even though bosses generally have no weaknesses, they do take increased damage to specific elements. For example priestess full moon boss will take more damage from fire spells than anything else despite not being weak to anything. This same system gets applied to elizabeth
That being said, mid to late game bosses needed more HP and theurgy should not have scaled off both str and mag and simply have had higher power values. That or they should have made damage scale drastically with level. Dealing 8k damage with a crit theurgy while being over 10 levels below what you’re fighting is just utterly ridiculous, Junpei and Aigis were utterly unbalanced.

>>720139653
My biggest issue with personas even after beating p3r and p4 is how it has all these deep systems like smt with regards to persona fusion but 0 incentive to make anything broken because even on max difficulties you just cruise through the game.

>>720138674
Adding buff ranks to persona would fix over half the issues with the one more system. The rest is simply removing the overpowered things.
I wouldn’t add an aoe heat riser for example or aoe debilitate

>>720139846
Oh no thats where you are wrong and you likely can’t tell cause you used an auto-mabuff persona and executed one mores perfectly.
For starters, if you ever mess up for aoa chain you are very likely to get fucked assuming you are not buffed.
When you play with an auto-mabuff persona and have koromaru in the party with a maxed out characteristic (very easy to do by koros second tartar visit) your evasion is being multiplied by x1.8 and your attack and defense is x1.4. If your are taking akihiko with you he is recieving a multiplicative x1.4x1.3 multiplier on everyone of his buffs, hes even the best tank in the game, moreso than aigis, by consequence and more evasive than Koromaru. Despite his theurgy hitting like a limp dick in terms of power and also being magic this huge multiplier lets him hit as hard as Junpei or Aigis who have much better theurgies and surpass Ken who has the most powerful magic theurgy in the game by power value alone. Shits hella unbalanced.
I wouldn’t have a problem with stupid dumb shit like buff amp if it wasn’t for auto-buff persona.
While we’re at it, sp becomes a very minor issue by the time the girls get invigorate 1 armor in the second block and much more feasible by the fourth block when the game hands you an invigorate 2 accessory but thats not enough, no we need to give you Ken, who gets 10 sp restores that stack with invigorate 1-3. He has completely endless sp lol so even exploring becomes way to easy by midgame.
The devs know how to make a well balanced challenge but it only lasts until like the second or third major boss, then it just becomes braindead.
You could blame it on the player just knowing the systems really well but the devs should expect that out of the player.

>>720140813
After 70 hours of gameplay in one persona, the player is an expert at all personas. Again I'd rather just play smt since I find that a lot more enjoyable and difficulty is more engaging. I really tried with persona but it just feels like smt with shitty gameplay

>>720119920
Unpopular opinion, but this is the most boring SMT I’ve ever played

>>720139846
I've always said the biggest issue with Persona is the completely pointless time management bullshit. There is absolutely zero fucking reason that thee game should have time limits. The game should just let you dick around and do everything when you want and just progress the story in the exact same way you do SMT. This will allow the devs to put in more difficult combat because they don't have to intentionally baby things for the people who fuck up on managing their time and end up weaker then they should be with no real way of progressing. If there was no time limits then there would also be infinite ability for the player to prepare for challenging fights and as such more reason to include challenging fights. The time limits also completely ruin the game's pacing by compelling you to do dungeons all in one go to minmax on days used. The time limits in Persona are only a hindrance and not a help. They should be removed. Or at the very least they should be made like Metaphor was where they're basically a non factor since you have more than enough time to do everything.

>>720141028
I promise, if they add buff ranks it will become much better. At least boss battles wont be ended on the first goddamn turn even on merciless that way.
The only battle that feels balanced for having charge/concentrate on the first turn with fuuka is elizabeth

>>720138941
It's just funny that
>Dazai kills her brother
>doesn't go after Dazai
>uses all her effort to go after the Prime Minister instead
>why?
>HE CHEATED ON MY DEAD BROTHER
kek

everytime you see a retarded opinion on /v/ about a jrpg, remember that you share the board with people that only ever played 7 jrpgs (and a gacha) >>720122584

>>720141028
I think they just don’t balance the random encounters against element boost and automatic buffs.
On my second tartarus visit in merciless I could barely ko shit with a single all out attack, i needed priestess tarot card to do it.
After I got auto-tarukaja though it became much easier to accomplish this with mc, Yukari, Akihiko could barely hit the mark while Junpei struggled to shave enough hp on fire weakness for an all out attack unless I used priestess tarot or i buffed him.
Sometime around the point I started getting element boost on everyone enemies just started to melt regardless of buffs.
This was on merciless.
I also do not understand how its possible that enemies have such a huge miltuplier against you in merciless. At some point anything you resist gets reduced to almost no damage, you can even survive most weakness attacks and neutral hits usually are about maybe a third or two fifths of your entire party’s Hp.
Idk man, persona difficulty just feels weird once you start stacking multipliers. I think they definitely must balance around at least one multiplier…maybe 2.

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I liked it. I'm on to the Vengeance route next but man does the start drag.

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>>720145665
Oops forgot pic

>>720145865
Based on this pic, merciless is basically hard mode when hitting weaknesses, slightly more. The only difference is you take a lot more damage especially on weakness or crit, but I don’t notice it

I would say play smt 2 first because it’s kino but going straight into a autistic super nintendo game might make you quit the series entirely

>>720145785
They should have cut out Aogami's tutorial bot phase but the problem is it's also laced with dialog about himself and his memory loss so they were too lazy to find a work around. Never mix plot elements with tutorial elements.

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>>720119920
If you care about lore, you might want to start with III first since V is sort of a sequel to that game, that and it will feel more impactful once you reach the Demifiend superboss. If you don't care, then sure, the story is still relatively self-contained and the gameplay is really good, just don't be afraid of playing on Hard since the game can get easy at times with how you can abuse weaknesses for extra moves.

Also, get a Mermaid.

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>SMT VV
>Omatagoki strategize
>arabaki switched in with khonsu ra
>cast charge on himself
>cycle between Tzitzimitl, Azazel and Belial until everyone is debuffed to max rank
>switch in demon that is gonna deal damage
>switch in amanozokawo
>all buffs reversed
>attack with dd demon
>switch demon out again then back in
>has charge/concentrate and full buffs again
>repeat until you run out of press turns
I know you can only do this in ng+ after a chaos route but this is so fucking retarded that I just don’t think this game is balanced at its hardest.
Like, you can say persona is easy and all that but its not like SMT is any harder to break, maybe it looks complex on the outside
SMTVV even has press turn generators that synergize with the debuff effects from shit like belial, it is really fucking dumb man.
I do think SMT VV is better gameplay wise cause I prefer press turns but I wouldn’t let SMT purists gaslight you for even one second that its harder than persona.

>>720147278
A bit fat but still a very cute Mermaid!

>>720147613
Doing all that will take at least 30 min per turn and is honestly not a fun way to play.
You're basically complaining about the existence of cheese.

It's one of the middling entries so yeah. Plenty of room for things to get worse and better.

Play SMT4 or Persona 3

>>720119920
SMT 5 is soulless goyslop. Play 3 instead. It's so much better.

>>720147823
What kind of shitty excuse is this? Do you really think that atlus unintentionally added omatagoki strategize, rakunda all on switch in, and buff reverse on switch on your side only by accident?
Lol fuck off. This is like saying using Salve-Maker in BD is “cheese” and some sort of oversight by the devs
Sorry but i prefer the original omatagoki critical is the only good one to this.

>>720125007
>Maybe VV fixes that.
No, it doesn't. In addition to your complaints, the game is like 90% unrelated side quests. Also the music sucks while Nocturne's is 10/10.

>>720147823
Looks more like 10 minutes to me, about the length of a boss fight you would do normally except in this case you are just one shotting it while generating press a few extra press turns too.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NJH2PeXU6Kg&pp=ygUpU01UIFY6IFZlbmdlYW5jZSBTaGl2YSwgSmFjayBGcm9zdCBUdXJuIDE%3D

>>720148187
>Do you really think that atlus unintentionally added omatagoki strategize, rakunda all on switch in, and buff reverse on switch on your side only by accident?
Yes.
>Sorry but i prefer the original omatagoki critical is the only good one to this.
So you admit that Strategize is not fun?

>>720148487
>Shiva
Bruh, I was thinking about Godborn Satan.

>>720148576
>>>Yes
You are utterly fucking retarded
This is exactly what I mean by gaslighting smt purists, to anyone reading this do not pay any mind to the retard im replying to.
Also the video link is an example of the strategy, which is clearly only balanced for a boss fight of the caliber you mention.

>>720148782
Shiva is piss easy in VV.
Godborne Satan is literally the only boss that warrant the use of Strategize.

>>720148576
That is a level 40 jack frost on hard difficulty using glacial blast, fucking magic, on smt vv
I can only imagine what sort of bullshit you can do with nahobino or a phys/almighty demon.
>satan
Probably the only fight where omatagoki strategize will not end up one shotting what you’re fighting but this was ONLY an example. You are also insane for thinking that atlus put those traits in as an oversight, there is no way they are that retarded. If anything omaragoki strategize and debuff all on switch in was put in as a fucking joke by fatlus dev

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>>720148576
You said strategize would take 30 minutes per turn, I am simply correcting you.
You probably think Adventurer’s curiosity in Metaphor refantazio is also unintentonal cheese? Wanton Destruction? Unintentional definetely. Beloved Greatsword? 100% unintentional.

I’m here to tell every smtfag what they don’t want to hear. SMT is about as hard as Persona.
>b-but AOA lets you one shot everything
>b-but in nocturne hard mode the first battle is rng….
Yeah and in persona you can get immediately giga fucked if you do something retarded like put Yukari/Aigis on your team in hermit boss fight or let the enemy get 3 one mores on you. What the fuck kind of shallow ass argument has any smtfag ever given in these threads.
I love SMT, it is one of my favorite series but I also like persona and metaphor enough to say that the shit smtfags say about persona is untrue and I am autistic enough to look at the numbers and fusion calculators.

>>720149071
>there is no way they are that retarded
They are.
Literally and unironically.

>>720128860
People were over hyping IV's story before V came out. Don't kid yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZltxlPch-Ss

>>720149654
>adventurers curiosity
Okay so maybe I’m a little retarded, I meant the sublime spoonful which simply generates new press turns anyway, carry on

>>720147613
>If you use all of the game's systems together perfectly with this endgame super set-up you can become completely invincible super beast


Woah

>>720119920
fantastic game with great gameplay and a minimalistic story. my favorite smt next to nocturne

>>720150641
Great argument anon.
I’m sure that definitely proves smt is hard as fuck and definitely harder than persona.

>no one has bitched about V being bad because it's gay yet
A miracle the shitposter hasn't found this thread.

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>>720150641
Literally anyone that can read will realize in an instant that strategize combined with wanton rebel/Power Menace/Heavenly Reversal will essentially turn buff setup into something that takes 0 press turns.

>>720151125
>Literally anyone that can read will realize in an instant that strategize combined with wanton rebel/Power Menace/Heavenly Reversal will essentially turn buff setup into something that takes 0 press turns.
Literally most people just use Critical and nothing else.
And I fucking mean it.

>>720151235
Thats not an argument thats just a fucking assumption.
You’re even pretending that anyone with the autism to make a crit build via fusion will never discover demon fusions you unlock VIA QUESTS and even pretend that they won’t read their traits.

>>720147278
>muh lore
V and Vv I separated from 3 and VV easily off the best gameplay in the series for new player. Lore and Reason are fucking shit in 3. Everyone but Pixie are unlikable cunts.

>>720151431
>thats just a fucking assumption.
So just like you assumed that everyone who play vidya is a tryhard who will always go for the most optimized build.
But normalfags only go for convenience.
Likewise, most people have not finished the game, this is something true of every game.
>You’re even pretending that anyone with the autism to make a crit build via fusion will never discover demon fusions you unlock VIA QUESTS and even pretend that they won’t read their traits.
Again, you overestimate normalfags.
Tell me, why would easy modes exist in the industry then?

>>720151675
It's the world building in III that matters in V. And specifically the maniax content.

>>720151936
World building is done horribly in 3, and it's not needed if he play VV path first anyway. I would argue to not Play creation if he is playing for one playthough as it Nocturne like experience was so shit, Atlus remade the game for the Vengeance path

>>720151709
Anyone who makea a crit build is going to optimize their goddamn buffs as will anyone who is going for any of the superbosses including shiva. Anyone who plays on hard or higher is very likely to do the superbosses as well. The superbosses in persona 3 reload merciless/heartless, joker in particular, are shown to be the hardest most puzzle tier bosses fatlus has done, to the point where some party members (Junpei) are considered almost mandatory while other super popular ones (koromaru) are considered useless in it.
If you wanna talk about random encounters or regular boss fights in smt vs persona its all the same shit amongst both, build up buffs and nuke neither game is particularly difficult once you get the ball rolling and have all the essential skills.
You can tout shit like Matador in smt3, but persona has its fair share of surprise early game filters as well
>yukiko in 4
>lovers in 3
>okumura in 5 (this one is even fucking lategame)
Its the same for both games, if someone knows the mechanics they will immediately know what to do against matador, spam buffs and debuffs. You think any Persona autist will not realize that fog breath and war cry are essential in Nocturne? Please don’t sell your series so highly.

>why do easy modes exist
Not an argument you belligerent cunt. Nobody here is talking about people who would play the game on easy mode. We are comparing persona difficulty to SMT difficulty and you are just changing the subject with this.

>>720119920
It's the best SMT and arguably the best JRPG.
You're better off starting with 4 and 4F because playing it will make everything else look worse.

>>720152578
>Not an argument you belligerent cunt. Nobody here is talking about people who would play the game on easy mode
But you said "anyone that can read".
>Nobody here is talking about people who would play the game on easy mode
How was I supposed to know that from that single post, especially after you used a word like "anyone" ?

>>720122642
The story is minimalistic but cool

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>>720147613
There's a reason why people try to beat superbosses without cheese.
If you just play games for the cheevos and shit then you do you.

>>720152471
>World building is done horribly in 3
?
The game takes great aims to explain all the world's elements and machinations, the conception, the vortex world, the Amala Network, the wandering fouls, manikins, demons and demonic sponsors therein.

The most common complaint about 3 is how thorough its presentation is for all that at the detriment of a conventional story, which is a separate debate.
The other anon is right, V is able to glide over what III and SMT material has laid out. If V was the first SMT, not just the first played before going online to peruse discussions on the series but the very first entry, it would have a very different impression.

>>720153037
Maybe try reading the post chain next time instead of joining mid convo then. But even if you wanna talk about casual players, both smt and persona have “casual” modes so I don’t see how that proves anything regarding the whole atlus “unintentionally” added the strategize synergy to the game. While its true that a casual playing on peaceful will not pay any attention to that a casual on peaceful doesn’t need to and they will not touch any of the superbosses either and still won’t need to even if they did.
Theres simply no way atlus didn’t add strategize and a dozen of “switch in” trait effects that synergize perfectly with it unintentionally, just like theres no way an average joe playing on normal or higher will not notice them and their synergy. I mean, belial is literally a new game+ reward and you get the bratty cunt as a part of a sidequest

>>720153421
Irrelevant cope. Go back to your pokemon nuzlockes.

>>720153421
The same can be said for persona and smt. I don’t think you are disproving his point.

>>720119920
I started with SMT1 myself. V is a great game to be sure, but if you're going to start with a newer game, Nocturne or IV are better points to start. If you wanna start the franchise off closer to its roots though, definitely SMT1. You could start off with Megami Tensei 1 or 2, but I think SMT1 is a much more well rounded game. The first half of MT2 is incredible but the second half definitely feels lesser.

>>720149071
>You are also insane for thinking that atlus put those traits in as an oversight, there is no way they are that retarded
It's literally a company that:
>went bankrupt THREE (3) fucking times
>thought SH2 was going to be their "third pillar"
>thought of the DF super boss in DDS
>thought of the Joker super boss
>thought of the Abyssal God super boss in EO3
>ignored the US for the longest time because they thought there was no audience there
>ignored Europe for even longer for the same reason
So yes, I can believe they are that retarded because they literally did worse.

>>720119920
>good combat
yes
>cool story
no.
if you want a better introduction to press turn SMT, play Nocturne instead.

derailing to say I’d love to play smt3 if it was only graphically enhanced with nothing changed besides the bullshit mechanic of random skill changss

>>720150750
persona 5 royal lets you summon an endgame persona for free and sweep the entire game with it anon, at least for the strat described above you have to do more than just open your demon compendium

>>720154853
what else did the new port change mechanically? Only thing I can think of is giving Dante Pierce, as Raidou was better before because he had pierce and Dante did not I'm pretty sure.

>>720154679
Most of that has nothing to do with balancing games. Consequently you don’t add a boss fight like joker without carefully tailoring to what the player has access to at that level the same goes for all the other boss fights you mentioned.
For example there is no fucking way metaphors superbossed ARENT balanced around Heismay

>>720154679
>3 of the 7 things are "superboss too super"
lmao

>>720155070
Are you seriously comparing new game+ on persona 5, which actually resets your level and lets you play the entire game at least balanced to level progression if you so wish it to smt v ng+ where you have no choice but to play the entire game again but at max level unless you unlock godborn mode and do that? Please stop it with your disingenous arguments

>>720155479
>>720155603
>Most of that has nothing to do with balancing games
Retardation affect everything, not just game balance.
>same goes for all the other boss fights you mentioned
DF in DDS is literally one of the worst boss ever designed because he's both a puzzle fight AND reliant on RNG.
You can have the best setup possible for him and still lose because you rolled the wrong number.
There's no skill in rerolling until you get the right number.
Abyssal God is also another RNG fest, most strats against him are just you using all the cheese you can to beat him because playing the way you played for 99% of the game would result in a loss unless you have insane luck or are vastly overlevelled because he's "only" a level 80 boss.

>>720155070
Persona 5 resets your level
Smt v does not but does provide the option to do the game in godborn mode.
Essentially both games give you the option to do it properly or just cheese it.
But since godborn is a new difficulty mode added for smt vv then let me also add that you cannot transfer the compendium or your levels or anything really to ng+ mode on merciless persona 3 reload.
I don’t really see how this has anything to do with comparing the difficulties of both games though, sounds more like convenient cope to dodge the actual argument

>>720119920
>SMT
>story
lol

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VV is such a great fucking game. Fatlus needs to hurry up with those post release content patches if there's any more in the pipeline.
Release the patches or declare the game finished and release the artwork they've been holding onto.

>>720155998
This still doesn’t prove your point. Its a superboss and thus is balanced for strats that can seem like complete cheese. Abyssal god also has multiple ways that its extreme damage can be handled. How the boss fight is designed isn’t an indicator of atlus being bad at designing boss fights because the game can be beaten without doing those boss fights its just an indicator that they go all out designing superbosses

>>720157475
DF has no cheese and is reliant on RNG.
He's objectively a retarded boss unless you think rolling a gacha is the epitome of fun.

>>720155931
I am not comparing NG+ on persona 5, as you can summon the DLC personas on a fresh file again, for free.

>>720155998
Okay then lets say atlus is retarded even if your argument as to why they are is retarded.
How does this change the initial point that persona is just as hard as smt. If you want to compare superbosses only then you are not going to find a super boss thats harder than Elizabeth in smt, much less joker that are completely uncheeseable boss fights.
>but you can do 8k king and i nukes on elizabeth
Thats not cheese, that is 100% recognizing and abusing her pattern to pop her off when shes on surt.

>>720157725
He has strats though, they are strats reliant on maintenance.

>>720157913
>my argument is that you can use dlc
If you are using this as an argument then you don’t have one and are not worth interacting with. Even if p5r came with all the dlc on pc that doesn’t mean it was the case when the game first released and its a completely unfair stance to take. If you are gonna use dlc as an argument for persona then I’m going to use mitamas, cleopatra and sakuya as arguments in smt v

>>720158124
>How does this change the initial point that persona is just as hard as smt.
I don't care about that.
You said that Atlus isn't retarded, I disagreed, that's it.
As for wanking which serie is harder, feel free to pick your favorite one and call it a day, I'm long past playing hard game for internet points.
The one thing I won't budge is how terribly designed the DF fight is in DDS.

>>720158358
>they are strats reliant on maintenance
Explain, I beat him forever ago by using the "pray that pixie cast sleep on the character that has the passive that allow him to dodge everything while asleep" strat because that's what everyone else used at the time.
And it REALLY wasn't fun.

>>720158358
Cleo is fair because VV comes with her and the other vanilla V DLC demons I believe, but the mitamas and Sakuya were additional purchases. Counting cheat-y DLC if it's packaged into the game for no additional cost is a totally fair stance to take I think

>>720149939
Isn't this guy a legit lolcow

>>720158594
No you fucking idiot. P5r on pc came with the dlc that was not dlc when it first released. SMTVV has the exact same situation with what was dlc in SMTV. Its not a fair stance to take you’re conveniently shifting the argument to your favor by accounting that you have no choice but to get the dlc personas on pc because atlus decided to put everything on a $60 value pack for late adoptors. Anyone with a brain can tell that the dlc isn’t balanced for the main game when neo cadenza is mediarama + thermopylae but costs less than thermopylae, has no conditions to be casted and comes at around level 20. Nobody who wants to play normally is gonna use shit like that

>>720158903
*not included dlc

What is this argument? Which is harder between SMTVV and P5R? VV is pretty fucking easy if you don't count the super-bosses but P5R is a whole nother level of braindead. I literally died twice in the entire game on Merciless and it was near the beginning.

>>720158903
>SMTVV has the exact same situation with what was dlc in SMTV
no it doesn't, all the SMTV vanilla demon DLCs are included with Vengeance, with Sakuya and Dagda being the new paid DLC demons. having these demons in VV for free means they should be entered into consideration for game difficulty and balancing as they are accessible in game easily for everyone, same with P5R's DLC being added for free into the multiplat ports. their unbalance is shitty yes but to act like they shouldn't be considered at all is ridiculous, they are in the game, they must be considered.
>b-b-b-b-but I ignored them therefore they don't exist!
is a shitty argument, and no amount of you being an inflammatory butthurt bozo is gonna change that

>>720158594
All the persona 5 royal dlc costed money when it first came out. It shouldn’t be considered a part of the base game just because you have no choice but to get it now.
Is this how you fags play persona and smt games? If so its no wonder you find them “easy”.
I would find the game easy too if I abused neo cadenza and myriad truths the entire game.

>>720159672
>pointing out how a game could be made easy with certain things meant you used it
imagine acting smug about being able to play the easiest megaten games ever released

>>720159660
They don’t stop being dlc demons just because atlus gave them to you for free you fucking moron. You absolute buffoon. You call games easy mode while using all the purposely broken paid shit. You have no argument.

>>720159731
Imagine having an argument instead of being an ad hominem baby that doesn’t eben

>>720159909
>you only count the DLC because you're a shitter who used them
>no I didn't stop being a smug moron
>nooo you can't call me names!!!!
lmao

>>720159825
see >>720159731

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3ClxM7d8m4
This was still one of my favourite moments in VV. I went in expecting another Vasuki fight and got perfection.

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The blasphemous might of the nahobeano....

>>720119920
Yes! After I beat this 4 times in a row to take out the super bosses, I played through 1, 2, and If... I will start 3 soon, the do Strange Journey and then the 4s. It's been a wonderful ride, but if you go back to the earlier ones be prepared, they are a lot more basic and less user friendly. Still great times though.

>>720160948
I'm looking forward to his puzzle fight in SMT6 where if you make an illegal move, he pulls out Jack Frost and strategises you to death.

>>720160618
I like this blue gremlin too but this isn't SMT...

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>>720161808
Woops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK72sfCwkOo

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>>720160948

I don't understand how people can consider menu scrolling a good combat system.

>>720159825
They're part of the game unlike the Persona DLCs where they just plop it into your compendium. They're essentially just cut content resold as DLC.

>>720120782
Isn't that like the best thing you could ask for?

>>720163838
You get to press more buttons while "menu scrolling" compared to playing a dark souls game just pressing R1 to attack and circle to roll.

>>720163838
>please don't play turn based games

>>720164563
Souls combat sucks, no argument there.
>>720165586
I don't mind tactical turn based games that have you move characters around the map, and my favorite jrpg is grandia 2. I guess technically it's still scrolling through menus, but it's way more fun than just a bunch of character staring each other down smt style.

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>>720163838
Its about forming the strategy to do big dick numbers and getting the dopamine hit when you slaughter superbosses with the power of autism. If you want a proper action game SMT still has that, too. Even got a remake a few months ago.

>>720166119
>only real time strategy counts
Retard

>>720169298
>ff tactics and grandia 2 are real time
Retard

>>720119920
>good combat
Yes
>cool story
Quite possibly the worst in a JRPG

>>720158894
Yes, but he’s seemingly disappeared. I don’t know if the lolcow status expires after becoming a ghost.

hey SMT nerds in Apocalypse is there any way hax Krishna's unique skills onto another demon like you could with fusion lite in the original 4

>>720169681
Retard

>>720119920
Has two stories.
The originals story is hot dogshit
Vengeance story at least tries.
Gameplay is top tier jrpg. Second area is a massive fucking slog though.

>>720170565
>no argument

>>720171316
>>720127710

>>720127710
>>720171485
>Competent theming
Lost me immediately. It’s the most hilariously shallow and basic order vs chaos story in the whole franchise. I left Vengeance more upset than vanilla because I was tricked twice in a row. All Vengeance has is a more complete plot structure. But it’s otherwise the same shit as before except it doesn’t feel literally unfinished.

>>720172152
>it's shallow because I didn't get it
>it's basic order vs chaos
Explain the difference between Dazai and Tao despite both being equally law aligned characters. And not you can't say something retarded like "Dazai isn't achtually law" because that didn't happen.

>>720174407
Lawful good and lawful evil

>>720174738
NTA but they're both clearly good. Dazai makes a bunch of meme faces but he's just trying to save the world from demon Armageddon

>>720174738
>SMT is now DnD
Try again

sex with demons

>>720174873
>now
anon,

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>>720174890
Sex with demon women
And Tao

>>720174971
i did this all the time
based upskirt enjoyer

>>720174971
This but snake women and Yoko.

>>720174971
devastating lack of alice in this pic

>>720174929
The idea of light vs dark alignments came from dnd because of games like Wizardry being the initial influence for the series but it's expanded far more than just good vs evil alignments.

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>>720175169
I've never been able to upskirt her.
So her dress had to come off instead.

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>>720175036
You can't fuck a snake. It's too wriggly.

>>720174852
>I know he’s portrayed as a cartoonish villain, but he has good intentions. Trust me.
He’s clearly on the bad side of law. And this includes Abdiel, who becomes a fallen angel.

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>>720163838
>come up with strategy [building a team, setting up resources, deciding on a plan of action based on enemy movesets, attributes, etc. (this is the fun part)
>execute strategy [scroll through menu and pick the right options] (this is not the fun part)
hope this helps

>>720175396
And yet she never becomes dark law, check her alignment.

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>SMT V was such a double disappointment in the story department that people are just hallucinating depth and grasping at straws to make it more interesting

>>720175262
>I've never been able to upskirt her.
Try googling UUU freecam. Works for UE games or something, including SMTV
It works for me, but it often crashes the game when I try to inject it. But I can just keep trying until it doesn't crash.
good mod btw i use it too

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>>720175190
nobody is questioning that anon, it's the notion that SMT hasn't always had the light/dark/neutral stuff on top of law/chaos/neutral alignments. SMT alignments basically always was straight up copied from D&D

>>720175608
Who are you quoting?

>>720174873
>>720175190
>>720175502
Holy autism, Batman.

>>720175874
>autism is stating facts
Why are you being retarded?

>>720175918
Because it’s all irrelevant to the plot, and the points being made in this discussion about the plot.

>>720176107
It's not irrelevant. It's one example. The complaint is that law vs chaos was extremely shallow in V.

>>720175271
God I love Snoko.

I played smt vv as my first in the series and loved it. since then I've finished 4 and 4a and started devil survivor last week
vv felt like the perfect entry point, but I'm not bothered by going backwards in a series like some people are

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we postin tier lists?

>>720119920
This or SMT3 imo

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>all these Nocturne wank
Its not even a good SMT game as it tries to go away from the alignment system.

>but muh combat
4/4A/5/VV came in and made Press Turn better.

>but muh story
Its easily one of the worst, part that everything hates you, part that it tries go go away from the alignment system, and part that they shove in a Chaos Route DLC just to "Fix" this.

>but muh character
All characters are asshole, and Demifiend end up being their bitches without any push back until the very end, and still become Lucy's bitch

>but muh lore!
What lore? Everything gone to shit and Demifiend decided to just end it all.

>but muh starter smt!
VV exist now. The amount of QoL update it has, how it represent alignment properly, and have characters that you can get into, make it the top SMT for new comers.

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I've been playing for the first time, 20 something hours in level 35 it's pretty good
the story is honestly whatever so far, apparently the vengence cannon is a much better story right? the original story must be completely different right since yoko is a new character

>>720177983
3 plays better than 4 imo.

>>720177983
Why do you type like an ESL?

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>>720178042
The original (Creation) tries to make it Nocturne-like with all the vagueness and character in that story. Needless to say, its one of the weaker points back when it was release as a Switch Only RPG. VV was purposely made to make a more coherent story that represent the SMT setting a lot better and with actual character development. Its why they gave (you) Tao and Yoko to follow you around. Its why I would always recommend new comers to play Vengence first and not Creation. I seen what happen when retards recommend Creation first when VV got release and good chuck of those anon regret it.


>>720178098
lol. lmao

>>720178298
Have you considered that when some people bought the game, they planned on playing both routes and not just one? Also the original has Tao and she acts no different than in CoV, just more dialog.

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>>720147613
Forget about that elaborate shit.
I think it's funny that you have almost no incentive to experiment with the different Magatsuhi skills because you have Omatagoki Critical right off the bat, and it's so fucking good that you can just let it carry you through every boss in the main game.

>>720178905
>Have you considered that when some people bought the game
Most people play one game through, and that exactly what many anon did on VV release. I will always recommend Vegenence over creation (and nocturne) if they have time for one play through. Even if they play it multiple of times, its still effienct to just play Vengence first anyways since you get access to Satan right on the spot and the Katana for the mega boss in Creation.

>>720179062
>most people
>source, my ass

>>720177983
>4 did press turn better
no it didn't. smirk sucks ass and no VIT stat means every fight is super snowbally. V/VV are better mechanically I agree, but flub almost every other aspect of the game as compared to Nocturne

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>>720175176

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>>720177545

>>720179737
oh what the heck it didn't save my placement for SMT2, I put that above SH1 in great games

>>720179737
Strongly agree

>>720149939
this is one of the most retarded things I've ever seen and I like IV. dude took the white were right memes seriously and thinks non-existence is a good ending.

>>720127950
>SMT
>Muh 100 hours
Every single SMT game is right at the 40 hour markish

>>720119920
buy 3 1st you faggot

>>720180630
I think the way be believes Isabeau is the best written character of all time might be worse.

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>>720175439
>system tools is under communications
What were they thinking?

>>720119920
>fun JRPG
Doesn't exist, enjoy running around in an empty desert doing extremely repetitive battles

>>720182064
>people paid such little attention to CoC they didn't read when the MC also equally hates cars
>this meme makes no sense

>>720147613
Yeah, actions with a cost of 0 press turn are fucking retarded. Strategize ruined the game for sure.

>>720119920
Unironically, I think the best entry point to SMT is a spinoff, specifically Devil Survivor 1.