This is why the games industry is so shit right now...
>>720298025I imagine that 10% is the orignal staff that worked at the company.
>>720298025What a stupid take. A game the developers aren't passionate about making will turn out shit.
>>720298025Counterpoint: a game that devs make begrudgingly to please their fans is how you get your main character humiliated and subverted
Modern devs hate fun, I'd rather they keep making boring realistic woke shit than revive Sly Cooper
>>720298025That's how things work, You fucking retard faggot.Artists aren't fast food workers
Reminder that game developing is just a job, passion or willingness doesn't impact the taste of mc donalds and won't affect games
Sly cooper is about child rape. Cooper means small, sly means to be stealthy. You play as a dog.
>>720298220correct, sometimes fast food workers actually get things right unlike modern devs.
>>720298221Actually, the reason why your fries are cold, your burger was made sloppily, and your order was wrong, is largely in part due to the employee's lack of willingness to work.
>>720298095The guy getting interviewed here literally wrote and directed the Sly games.
>>720298220Some people shouldn't be artists.
What is this Twitter retard even trying to say? That fans should be allowed to decide when developers make a new game like regardless of profit considerations or if they even have an IP allowing them to? What kind of retarded comment is this? Make what I want when I want lmao no
>>720298025We'll end up with another Sly 4 disaster
>>720298498>LE modern devs Good games are being made all the timeyou just only care about the biggest ones, which are usually made to target the lowest common denominator to justify their budget>>720298642True
>>720298641How does that contradict anons point?
>>720298220Why would you want to save an image of this faggot? Did you get tired of the taste of Elons dick?
>>720298025I think there's alot of "new developers" that want to be part of a big project so they can bulk out their resume rather than be part of a game that people love.We had this shit with the Resident evil series where the developers were like "We don't want to make the same games forever" so they took the series and completely changed it instead of leaving the series as it was and making some new IP.
>>720298025Sounds like these Sucker Punch guys are artists and you twitter screenshot niggers want to convert video games from art to products.
>>720298880I think it was meant to add to his point.
>>720298117I agree and this is also why I stopped caring about the woke shit in games. Instead of complaining about it I'll just not gonna play it.
>>720298880Considering he's still the president of the company that hasn't made a new Sly game in 15 years my guess is he's not part of the 10%
>>720298664If they only listened to fan no new ips or ideas would come out because they would all just ask for endless sequels to games they liked as kid.
>>720298157>>720298220This is why hideo kojima sabotaged MGS and why it is a good idea for other teams to take IPs of the hands.Coincidentally I was looking at the devs who made life is strange after seeing the thread. I remember they made remember me, which was a great game but didnt do well. So I looked at the games they made, assuming they had been stuck making life is strange, but no, they palmed the IP off to another dev and have been making a multitude of different games since. I assume with passion.Just checked this game out and it looked worth playingBANISHERS GHOSTS OF NEW EDEN Plus Jusant.All different type of games.Issue here is sony are not getting an independant studio to make a sly cooper game or infamous game and are instad leaving the IPs to rot so much that if a new game ever releases the OG fans would have moved on and the games will have no buzz that it brings in new fans.Irony of all is that ghost of shitshims was an appalling PoS cut and paste trash game that I find it irony that they thought it every needed a sequel.
>>720298220>codemonkeys and "game designers">artists
>>720298664>>720298025You are responding to a screencap of a dumbass post written by a literal 16 year old who tweets an average of 25 times per day. Their take is retarded because they literally do not even have a full functioning human brain yet.This is the reason why even cultivating a culture of responding to dumbass tweets is stupid, it's almost always just literal children. You wouldn't even look at this person if they tried to speak to you in person, because who the fuck gives a shit about what a child has to say?
Sly Cooper is too video game-y for modern Playstation.
>>720299056You clearly do.
>>720298221>passion or willingnessActually it does. Vidya is a creative art, especially in pre production concept phase when passions are high but after 2-3 years the project gets dull and devs are ready to move on.
>>720298117>117▶>>720298975>>>720298025 (OP)>What a stupid take. A game the developers aren't passionate about making will turn out shit.Absolutely this. Give me a passion project over marketable nostalgia bait any day.
>>720298956No i think he's antichrist >>720299016Designers are artist.
>>720299004This anon gets it. The phrase "who asked for this" Or "Nobody asked for this", is one of the most retarded phrases on the planet. Yet, a bunch of people think that way. They think that artists should only create what was asked for. But if they think the idea through even a little, they would realize that no new ideas are ever asked for. The artist dares to create something new. The consumer can only decide if they like it or not.
>>720298976All it means is that he’s probably a cuck who did an HR-approved survey of his team (instead of making decisive actions like a fucking director should) and all the women and DEI hires said “more girlbosses, no scrimblos” and so he capitulated to them. It would be like saying because Neil Cuckmann doesn’t want to do a new Jak game that means nobody at Naughty Dog wants to.
You know fans can decide what gets made. It's called voting with your wallet. if a game is proven successful then yes, they'll make more of it. This is like people begging for a new Mega Man but only one game in the entire franchise has ever sold 2 million on one game. You can't really expect Capcom to divert resources to games that easily sell in the 10 million for something that though the franchise has sold a lot of games in it, it would still be considered niche in comparison to sales.
>>720299114lmao this mentality is why all we get are remakes and hamfisted social commentary. game design is a technical field not an artistic one.
>>720299056>DNI if you're a Castlevania show enjoyerThis little nigga hasn't even been alive long enough to have seen a single new Castlevania game get released.
>>720298025that blacked thread on the catalog is unironically better than this dogshit threadfuck this website i hope it dies again
>>720299174games aren't art and devs aren't artiststhey should primarily focus on making what I specifically want
>>720299107Except I'm not talking about the content of this twitter user. I'm talking about how retarded it is to even give twitter users the time of day to spout whatever dumbass opinion their underdeveloped brains. I'm commenting on why the fuck would OP even his time creating a thread fueled by such opinions....are you also 16? This shouldn't be hard to grasp unless you're also just underdeveloped or ESL. You know you're supposed to be 18 or older to use this website, right?
>>720298025If devs are forced to be making games they aren't personally interested in, those games are going to be shit. Why do you want that?
They were right when they said gamers are entitled
this is why games will always be commodities and never, EVER art
The last Rachet and Clank bombed hard if they made a new Sly it wpuld bankrupt the company.The obvious answer here is the give the people the game they really want a new Parappa the rapper game that will make billions.
>>720298025>scrimblo bimblo game bad>resting bitchface woman game good
>>720299321>opinion their underdeveloped brains.>I'm commenting on why the fuck would OP even his time creatingSpeaking of underdeveloped brains.
>>720299310Roger is that you?
>>720298025Sucker Punch was a studio who after its devs got tired of being pigeonholed into making nothing but Sly games, made Infamous and was promptly pigeonholed into that. Now they are pigeonholed into Ghosts of games and will do that until they get burned out and do it all over again with a new IP
>>720298025Not making a game nobody wants to work on is a positive though. Passionless projects are doomed from the start.
>>720299237Its creativity you retard.What you think every dev just types on a keyboard and magically an IP comes out.Devs have to create concepts, art, music, quests, writing.Fuck, you see hideo kojima playing with mother fucking lego designing levels. Its a literal creative art.Even at the technical level, like engine creation, there are no rule books, they are literally creating the engine themselves.You are a retard
>>720299310What you want, was placed in front of you before you knew you wanted it.
>>720298025This anon >>720298117 is right. Fan driven demand is how you get soulless rehashes.Ghosts is still trash though. PS 4 & 5 have been terrible for Sony 1st party exclusives.
>>720298025fans are retarded homosexual incels that don't know what they wantthe only people that """want""" (or rather virtue signal about it like women) some game to come back are just a loud terminally online minoritynobody gives a shit about slynobody gives a shit about your oldslop ps2 era trash games unc, fuck offit's either a passion project from the devs or nothing, nobody will waste human resources to make your incel chud miserable ass happy, if you want another sly so much then make it yourself worthless moutbreathing golem
>>720299380>The obvious answer here is the give the people the game they really want a new Parappa the rapper game that will make billions.you gotta believe!
How would they decide what fans to listen to? Seeing as how we mostly all want different things.
>>720298220
>>720299380>he last Rachet and Clank bombed hardthe one with feminist girlboss?
>>720298025pic is what happens when you give employees creative freedom to do what "they" want to make
>>720298025Wrong. Listening to fans is what has gotten every major game developer into trouble. Game devs need to decide for themselves what their fan base will enjoy. If video games are supposed to be an "art", it can't be dictated by the masses.
The fans literally can't decide that shit. If the company doesn't want to make a new game, what are they going to do? Mind control the devs?
video games are artthe absolute best video games are the ones where the developers have passion and create the game according to their vision
>artist
>>720299615>How would they decide what fans to listen to?they don't there are objective metrics on player behavior and current market that suggest whether the next game they will make or a change they make in an existing game will go well or notthis is how online/live service games operate mostlymost people who play games never leave any feedback, so the loud minority screaming about something is not representative of the general sentiment of the public
>>720299569i said not artistic, not not creative you literal retard. what is it with shitskins imagining posts they want to respond to instead of the posts they're responding to recently. you can't be human.
>>720298025He's right though.If the dev doesn't want to be making the game they're making, its not going to be good.The real issue is that studios are so big and full of indians, you'll never get an overwhelming sense of passion and excitement anymore.The ideal developer size is between 1 and 100 people. Any more and the sense of community is gone.
>>720299459Sorry brother, I just got flustered and forgot to proof-read my post. It happens when stupid little bitch-faggots like you already fail to grasp the point that was being made and think to leave dumbass responses instead of sucking more dick when it's the only thing you're good for.
>>720299402Sony wins again baby!
>>720299783devs don't want to makes games they want to make interactive lessons about why you're racist, sexist and bigoted
>>720299785Calm your tits and stop the projection you feminine little fruitcake. Your point was simply too retarded to take seriously when you're clearly underage yourself.
>>720299880I think you don't want to play games actually
>>720299880And that's why they turn into pure liquid shit every time
>>720298157True.>Do you hate it now? Good, I want to make a different game
>>720299880that's the publisher, the devs just type code and wants to go home for the day
>BING BING WAHOO LOOK AT THE FUNNY MONKEY!Yeah this is video games wooo!>Game created by a talented team of visionaries making something they actually want to make with something meaningful to say.Urg who asked for this? Why is it so woke and political? I'm gonna make a 12 hour youtube video crying about and harass the devs.Gamers are entitled babies and deserve nothing.
>>720300019and it shows in the end product
>>720299895I don't know why you're still typing when those hands should be stroking more cocks. Are you just upset that I was calling out your classmate or something?
>>720298220This, devs don't necessarily want to make kids games forever
>>720300253Erm... they're not games for kids... they're for everyone...
>>720298025Sony developers want to tell stories about brave BIPOC transfolkx latinxes fighting white oppressors! Based! Fuck furry platformer trash!
>>720298025That’s disappointing, but I suppose the devs wanting to move on from a franchise is an easier pill to swallow than publishers just sitting on IP’s because they can’t even be assed to do something. Still sucks though.
>>720299774Creativity is of the arts you fucking retard.Technicality is dealing with defined immutable laws, like maths or biology.Coding is not technical, it is artistic.Fucking irony call other shitskins yet cant even into english
>>720298975>>720299157>>720299587Go back.
>>720300560programming is technical, game design is an art
>>720299239>ignores the content of the post and just continues giving a shit about some 16 year old stranger on twitter for no reasonSo this really is a young person thing huhI wonder if people actually following GR2 are in the minority now
I wonder if they're part of the 10%
devs who let their shareholder brain parasites control them don't get to call themselves creative
>>720298642Everyone should be an artist.>Take what you like>Make more on the topic>Try to improve because YOU want your shit to be better to satisfy yourself moreCongrats you're an artist.
>>720299310No, I should be focusing on making what I want.
>>720298025I am fine with developers doing what they wantwe get soulless slop because of industrialized development. No one cares. They're there for a paycheckBut liking something doesn't make it good either. So don't confuse the issue. Sucker Punch wanting to make inclusive shit doesn't mean its good because they are passionate. Its just the alternative is worse.
>>720299310Why aren't you making what you want?Are you retarded?
>>720299645Making it a live service game was the publishers idea
https://youtu.be/LvEnkEOsdxw?&t=5m14sDo you think he's ITT right now?
A no-skill platformer seems like a thing that wouldn't be exciting in the first place.>Jump in the air and press the CIRCLE buttonis like 80% of the platforming mechanics in the game
>>720298221Go to a Burger King in niggerville then a chica fil a in a white neighborhood and let me know if there is not difference in service and food quality
the idea that fans are expecting devs to make new games they can already try making for themselves is fucking absurd
>>720298025Well who's gonna make it? Just because there's demand for it doesn't mean it MUST be done
>>720298025If Sly Coonshit was your 'childhood game' or whatever, you were too young to realize the industry was shit back then too.
>>720298220replace Nintendo logo with whatever company dev team logo is
>>720298025If the devs aren’t passionate about the game, it’s guaranteed to come out a focus tested pile of shit. What they should do in this scenario (but won’t) is sell or at least lend the IP to a studio that actually IS passionate about it.
>>720298025There’s this retard idea that the studio that first made the game should be the only ones to make sequels or whatever in that franchise and fans bug them over it when the team no longer gives a shit about that IP. I have no clue why companies are so hesitant to give other dev studios a crack at the IP. Nintendo who is autistic about IP lets so many spinoff get made for properties that most people don’t even care who actually develops the games it’s just made by “Nintendo”
>>720298025What a dumb cunt
>>720302792The devs for this are only passionate about making ugly women fight strawman versions of their twitter arguments. Most creative side devs in major game studios nowadays are ugly women, gay men, or weak losers who have no higher purpose or ideal they strive for, instead glorifying the muck they matured in. Striving against the unknown is a man’s territory and we’ve allowed the moral decay of naysayers who belong on the popcorn stand dictate what should be made. You can’t even say they’re doing so courageously as they have the backing of multi-billion dollar companies allowing them to fail continuously.
>>720303272Overwhelming majority of western devs are left leaning self hating jaded white balding millenials and thats the creative mind they posses unfortunately and it shows.
>>720303272>The devs for this are only passionate about making ugly women fight strawman versions of their twitter argumentsIronically, this is a massive strawman
>>720298025Counterpoint: if fans really want it, they should lease the IP to a studio that does want to make the game.
Anon, have you ever heard the expression, "the customer is always right?"
>>720298025That why they should do the Bubsy strat and lend the ip to a studio that does want to make one.
Aren't there like 4 Sly Cooper games anyways? Would they even sell nowadays when the entirety of PlayStation's userbase only cares about realism and realistic graphics and realistically walking up the stairs in their video games? I know Astro Bot came out, but I don't think it was that big, right?
>>720303946The audience isn't there like it used to but astro bot did well for what it is. its sly cooper, doesnt have to be some cutting edge shit, a AA game would probably do good and PS needs more of those.
Ok but Sly Cooper had a perfect trilogy and the original devs just sort of moved on. Sometimes that is for the best.Sly 4 tried to continue the story, but it had to undo the ending to the 3rd game...
>>720298220Enjoy losing your job when nobody buys your product then King of the Retards
>>720301939I don't have the copyright to the series I want? Where are your parents? They shouldn't be letting you use their computer.
>>720298025No, this is the right attitude, make something you want to play, but that's the issue here, these devs don't actually like games and most likely don't even actually play their own games, so I doubt that number would increase much for any other game including the one they work on right now.
>>720298117I'm sure the Concord and Hyena devs were "passionate".
>>720303573There’s not a multi-million dollar production behind my post though, anon.
>>720302238that's just gold ol' racism
>>720302238There will be a difference regardless because its two different restaurants dumbo
>>720298025I don't really see a problem with that. I would prefer developers to make games they're actually interested in than being made to appease to the masses in any given situation. That being said, Ghost of Yotei looks boring and a new and good Sly would be way cooler, but a new Sly wouldn't be good if it was being made by people who have no interest in it and would rather make a cinematic over the shoulder stock Sony game. I don't have interest in the latter personally, but I have more faith they would execute it well than I do that they would execute a new Sly well.
>>720304919No, you do it for free
The sentiment is retarded but ultimately the unintentional meaning is right. Devs should make what sells and what they believe can be made to sell well. The obsession with workplace feelings has destroyed productivity if all decisions are left to a studio they'll do fucking nothing for 8 years and get fired by Microsoft. STEM personalities are pushovers and need guidance or they'll become the useful idiots of some obnoxious feminist who provides no value to the world.
>>720305547>Devs should make what sells and what they believe can be made to sell wellI.e. "the profit incentive is antithetical to artistic integrity"
>>720305229It only takes a moment of my time, anon, just as long as your responses
Gaymers:>wtf publishers are so fucking greedy! Devs should have full control on what they work on!Also Gaymers:>wtf? Furry mascot game isnt being worked on? Fuck these devs, dont they know about money??
>>720298025Sucker Punch has 160 employees, per Wikipedia. If they take the ~16 people who want to work on Sly, and hire a handful more, they can make a good AA game for cheap with 30-40 people. This will never happen, of course.
>>720298025If only 10% of Suckerpunch want to make Sly Cooper then just shut this shit studio down already. Nothing of value would be lost. Give all their money to the Team Asobi and shitcan their whole team. Fuck developers who abandon their legacy.
Devs not wanting to make the next Sly Cooper is fine. The problem is that the company that owns Sly Cooper is instead making some Ubisoft knock-off. This means there will be no Sly Cooper because they can’t afford another development team. IP being sat on sucks, especially when it would be a breath of fresh air compared to the slop that’s coming out now. No one thinks Ghosts of Yotei is going to change anything, it’s another in the years-tired open world genre. If it even breaks even, we’ll see ANOTHER slop game being made with no Sly Cooper in sight. Now insert any fucking other IP that hasn’t been made recently and you’ll see it’s an industry wide trend.
>>720298117>A game the developers aren't passionate about making will turn out shit.While the twitter faggot statement it's indeed stupid, yours is an offshot. Haven't you been paying attention lately?
>>720298025The Sly series already ended with the 3rd game. There's no reason to make any new ones.
>>720307161slopsuckers failed to recognise Tsushima as woke and it had enough eye candy to serve as a shiny medieval Japanese theme park, so suckerpunch still has a long way to fall before they'll have any trouble. currently they're champions of the market AND The MessageThe same kind of shills who pumped KCD2 will come in hard for Yotei even if it's terrible.
>>720298025You know, at this point i think that people should just create Enclaves and create their own stuff from there on. The more you depend of these companies to give you some semi decent slop, the more you guys depend on them. Since 2014 videogames haven't been good and since then, companies want to perpetrate the illusion that there still some sense of excitement or anticipation from the medium, when the true community left eons ago. Gatekeeping just works, so you don't like the videogames, animation, books and music of this people? Create your own, and get some people that think alike and in the case that you can't, you just continue by yourself. This is an immense middle finger to everything the modern corporate empire stands for, and the perfect way to cut their life lines for good.>But muuuh jobBeing a gamedev or so called artist or whatever was never a real job in the first place, retard. Deep down you know this. Nobody needs entertaiment slop to get by the day and if you think otherwise you're immensely delusional. But the thing is, people like to have fun, and celebrate iconography of whatever their identities or values stand for, this was the original purpose of stories, art, and architecture at some point in time, it was not needed, but it was a immensely personal creation of yours to celebrate life. You don't like what people have been creating for you? Do it yourself, it's that simple. Risking my rambling to get lost in a miriad of shitpost, bots and shills, but i also wanted to say it for the sake. Fuck you /v/, fuck you 4chan, and fuck you trannie jannies.
>>720298025bitch, Rareware had 10% make GoldenEye, why does everything have to all hands on deck, just make some teams.
>>720308248>Since 2014 videogames haven't been goodGamergate huh? Don't think anything else happened in that year in particular except (You) allowed feminists to live rent free in your head forever
>>720308612I don't even know what gamergate it's but im sure i don't care. The fact that you just decided to ignore the rest of my post it's enough to get that (You) are part of the problem. Not that i care at this point.
>>720298025>YOU MUST BE A SLAVE TO THE CONSUMERretard doesn't understand that being a slave to "the consumer" is what is actually ruining games and the industry. and by "the consumer" i do not mean people who play the games. i mean an abstract idea in the minds of investors and publishers about who is BUYING the games. "the consumer" is not a real person. "the consumer" is the idea of dumbest person you know whose pockets are heavy. it is far easier to lighten to the pockets of the dumbest person you know than the smartest person you know. even the new "ghost of ~" game is made as a slave to "the consumer". there will be loads of concessions made in design and development catering to the lowest common denominator of player because you don't want the game to get a low score or bad press for being "too hard", you want the story to be very straightforward or else people won't get it, etc. microtransactions, lootboxes, and the like are all added in service of "the consumer" as well. if devs made what they wanted instead of what they thought would do well, the games landscape would be a lot better than it is.
>>720298117>A game the developers aren't passionate about making will turn out shit.Then why do all of Suckerpunch's games turn out shit anyway? they've never made a good case for their 'passion projects'. I'm not going to pretend ghost of tsushima is by any means a bad game, but it seems rather inconsequential if it's passion behind it. It still shares lot of cookie cutter modern open world design aspects that lack originality. It does nothing to break the mold, it doesn't try anything new. It's easier to surmise that they're just untalented hacks that are comfortable with lazy pigeon tier quest design of Assassins Creed games. And I personally believe people like that shouldn't be employed.
>>720309053>And I personally believe people like that shouldn't be employed.So you want them dead
>>720298025The Sly Cooper games are just as shit as anything else they made.
>>720299174>The phrase "who asked for this" Or "Nobody asked for this", is one of the most retarded phrases on the planetGet back to me when you have a better phrase to describe picrel if you want me to consider your statement
>>720304778They were.
>>720310694For every one of these, you get a dozen games like Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Mario RPGs, etc.
>>720302720Shareholders are out of touchdevs make whatever they want to make.>>720304449That's the price you pay when you enter art field some of the best artist produced flop slop and disasters, it's something that's just happens
>>720298025The fact we're in an age where the public decides what a company does is why the world is so fucking shit.Game devs used to make games with the intention of convincing people the thing they're making is fun.The roles are reversed now. Game devs follow trends mindlessly and the public shills and markets the game to try and form some weird social culture faggotry.
>>720300612where?they miss you back at reddit btw
>>720307595>>720309053No one said that if the developers are passionate about a game that it automatically makes it good
>>720298117>>720298220no one working on ghosts of yotei is an artist or talented developer, they literally poached from the concord team, the dragon age veilguard team, and the mass effect andromeda team.sucker punch is beyond dead, it's a zombie studio.
Modern western devs only want to make boring movie game shit.
It used to be common wisdom that the best games were things made because the devs themselves wanted to play such a game, but it did not exist until they made it.
>>720301939I was working on my dream star wars game until disney had it killed.And yes, before you snarkily ask, I did ask some of the other guys if they wanted to start an indie studio and try to keep going from their on a legally distinct product.1. We weren't allowed to use any of the code we worked on.2. We weren't allowed to use any of the assets we had worked on either.3. The most shitty one, I talked to a copyright lawyer who looked over the NDA contract, we weren't even allowed to make a similar game with similar themes for at least 2 years after contract termination.None of the team were free after 2 years, everyone got swept up in their own lives.A lot of them even told me at the time they wanted to finish the game.This is just the way the world works bud.
>>720298025They belong to Sony, it's not their job to "want" to make a remake, they obey or get fired.
>>720315372should have made it anyways but made it different enough that it is legally ambiguous. when/if disney tried to pursue litigation, you make a big deal out of it and show them as the bad guys that they are: the bad guys for cancelling a project that someone would have been excited for and for continuing to stomp on small time devs. sure, you might have to start from scratch on the code/assets because all of that is owned by disney, but you have the design ideas in your head and can start again. if you were in the right, the world would vindicate you.
>>720298025Pretty sure there's multiple reasons.
>>720298025nobody wants to play nigger coon thief game, even furries hate him
>>720315860>but you have the design ideas in your head and can start againThe issue is that disney claimed they owned all ideas and concepts we created before they even came into the picture.The entire reason they even closed our studio is because they were giving the project to another studio who wanted to make it into a han solo game, and then it got sent to ubisoft after that, and then the entire game concept was apparently untouchable for years legally due to nebulous copyright laws.Me and three other guys were willing to put down some cash to fight for it in the beginning, but we couldn't find any outside investors to warrant potentially fighting disney in court over it.Now a lot of us are old men and just do not have the industry connections anymore to make anything happen.
>>720316786>The issue is that disney claimed they owned all ideas and concepts we created before they even came into the picture.really depends what those ideas and concepts are and how much you can shift them to be legally distinct (or at least legally ambiguous). sounds to me like you guys just lacked the balls to laugh in the face of people telling you can't while being free men.
>>720317007They lacked the lawyers Anon
>>720298220Game devs are more like fast food coders than artists.
>>720317784no, they lacked the balls.
>>720317007>sounds to me like you guys just lacked the balls to laugh in the face of people telling you can'tSure, but we did it on the advice of our lawyer and how much it would cost us as an indie studio with no investors, disney would bleed us out through litigation over years.The concept was novel, we were modelling ourselves after a more serious saints row, 3rd person, open world exploration, but with a focus on roleplaying in the underbelly of a sci-fi city and gang affiliations and making enemies.We actually had created a nemesis-like system in the game before warner ever patented it because when the studio dissolved, some of us went to work at monolith and brought some of the ideas to it.My guess is that the patent screwed over the han solo game the next studio was working on and it's why it got shipped to ubisoft.
>>720318157>we were modelling ourselves after a more serious saints row, 3rd person, open world exploration, but with a focus on roleplaying in the underbelly of a sci-fi city and gang affiliations and making enemies.that sounds vague enough that disney can't do shit. especially if you kept quiet and just released it and dealt with the aftermath.like i said, no balls.
>>720298025real fans are shareholders
Sly have too much gameplay mechanics for the average playstation player, it would fail
>>720298025Giving in to fan demand is not a good thing
>>720298025Sly 4 was kind of shit so I really have no hope for a sly 5 even if it came out
>>720298025Are fans really interested in a Sly Cooper game? It's not exactly a popular franchise.
>>720318390It would have taken years to develop the game, and since it was not multiplayer/esports focused, investors just were not feeling it at the time.We took for granted how good things were under Lucasfilm Ltd, after TFU2, a lot of us were gunning to make our dream star wars game and spent a lot of R&D time for new game mechanics, inspired by stuff like mass effect, saints row, red dead redemption, fall out new vegas etc.I never talked to any of the monolith guys afterwards, but I wouldn't doubt that the nemesis patent was a direct attack on disney to spite them.
>>720318093You do it thenEasy to criticise when you're not the one trying to take on Disney's lawyers
>>720319690I'm not in a position where I signed deals with the devil, so I wouldn't have to take them on. The question is if Disney would even try to pursue litigation. They aren't quite as prodigiously litigious as they used to be (though they still like to, don't get me wrong). But if it is only vaguely like the thing, and the thing in question is a loose collection of already popular ideas/concepts, and the new studio doesn't have the backing for marketing/QA/etc. that they would even care. As long as in a trailer the devs don't try to say shit like "from ex Lucas games devs" or try to sell the product off of the name of star wars, then it is debatable of Disney would even get off their ass to do anything about it. Then, if they do, the start to make themselves a public enemy. Could have crowdfunded to get support, I'm sure there would have been tons of people to support just because it is against Disney and nustar wars alone.
>>720320395>The question is if Disney would even try to pursue litigationLol
>>720300253Extremely midwit post
>>720298664>people wanting to buy something>not considering profit considerations???
>>720298025stupid whiny piss babies. enjoy your nu halo, starwars, shite. Keep sucking off IP instead of the people who make them.
>>720298117Then why employ devs who dont want to make games with the properties you ownItd be like opening a mcdonalds and then your employees say they dont want to make burgers and instead start serving pizza.
>>720322774not everybody is autistic like you, they get bored of experiencing the same shit over and over and over again. Even if the teams who created every classic series never changed a single dev they would all push to make new IP because they are all sick to death of them after 2-3 entries.
Why the fuck would I believe what the director of shitty AAA slop says?
>>720323301Then they can leave the company and take their talents and experience somewhere else to make different games and the studio can hire new devs who want to work with that ipIts not rocket scienceEveryone gets what they want
>>720304778proof that the majority of those devs democratically decided to make those games instead of others?
>>720324442Yes, that's how you got 343, nu starwars, nu silent hill and every zombie IP that continues on after the original creators leave, enjoy your plate of shit, you ordered it.
>>720304778There isn't a single developer on earth who was excited about making a woke arena shooter, not even the wokies in HR or blue haired writers wanted to play those games.
>>720299616Misread that as femdomcel
>>720298025Probably because 90% are DEI hired and just there to get paid and add trans/nigs to any & every game, that's why there's so much woke slop being produced
>>720326041>picrel white guy is that 10% wanting to make games great again whilst surrounded by DEI nigs & trannies
>>720325795Concord oozed passion actually, you can objectively appreciate that even if it didn't appeal to you
>>720326392No it didn't, it looked like guardians of the galaxy and overwatch which are both creatively bankrupt mass market sources of inspiration. There were aesthetic elements outside the awful character designs that had talented people working on it but none of them wanted to play the shit they made.
>>720299535>Having good takes>Having a jawChoose neither
>>720326115
>>720326931>Their CEO is worried for the future of the industry.
>>720298025>i demand cynical, passionless cashgrabsThis is why the industry keeps shitting out endless remakes.
>>720298025Rewatching the behind the scenes bonus from Sly 2 after this really hurts...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-7T5bUpuHU
>>720324442Why the fuck would you dumpster your career if you don't need to? And no, you get trash made by devs who have neither experience, talent, vision, nor passion of the original group. Only thing that remains is the studio name, as if that matters.Sometimes a franchise dies because the people with the ability to make it good have moved on. It's sad, but it is what it is. The industry and hobby are overall healthier for it and if there's enough fan love behind the game then sooner or later it'll have a decent fangame or spiritual successor.
>>720298117Only intelligent post in the thread. The best games are always games made with clear passion and creative vision made for niche audiences. The issue with the games industry isn't that fans aren't steering development, it's that big publishers are having devs make shit they don't care about AND fans don't care about, resulting in games for nobody.
>>720327417sure
>>720298025>https://x.com/realradec/status/1965403230873243794>10% of Sucker Punch Productions would be really excited to develop a new Sly Cooper game.That fineThe series ended, it concluded with 3.>>720298117>A game the developers aren't passionate about making will turn out shitspbp>>720298220>Artists aren't fast food workers/thread
>>720298025So he genuinely wants slop churned out by people who don't care about the franchise as much as he does? Why?
>>720298117This. It's fucking bizarre how much the g*mers just view devs as these automatons of talent that can just be frivolously deployed to any project, with the dev juice inside just being a universal yet limited resource that must be carefully rationed and applied to worthy projects. That it can be freely taken away from projects that are deemed unworthy and applied in full capacity to something else.Especially when you see the same mindset being applied to modders, where there's no monetary incentive and it's literally all driven by passion instead
>>720331172he has the mind of a 5 year old throwing a tantrum because there's no more ice cream in the freezer.
>>720298220>Artists aren't fast food workersactually that's what so many have become and why many are replacing them as well with ai bs
>>720298220>Artists aren't fast food workersThe fact they're acting and expecting to be treated as artists is the fucking problem. They lash out at customers on Twitter, they mock fans via Reddit, they pompously demand you buy their products despite the demand for it being nonexistent, they have "public screaming sessions" at game dev conventions. They're so far up their own ass that they know expect the customer to be beholden to their own wishes instead of the other way around.Maybe if these game studios actually hired fast food workers, then maybe good games can be created again.
>>720329367brainlet take, holy shitkys
They're just more grown up now
>>720333095Are you really gonna let ragebait you see on /v/ affect you like that? Do you take this place THAT seriously?
>>720304267they really could have capitalized by making a netflix show about sly calling it thieves in timethe animated cutscenes were pretty decent and since he's had ancestors all throughout time it'd be the perfect premiseI still kind of feel bad for Kevin Miller on that one podcast where he's practically gritting his teeth telling people to watch that (at the time) upcoming Sly Cooper movie because it may lead to more games or maybe a series or something even if it doesn't include the original three VAs
>>720298025Thank god. Sly is one of the rare series that had a definitive ending and ended on a good note. I'm glad that shitty cashgrab 4th game flopped.
>>720298220>>720298025Fans don't actually buy the games, they SAY they will but when it comes out all of a sudden those words mean nothing
>>720303695>entitled white man the movie
Let the 10% make a new Sly game then, and hire extra staff specific to the building of that, while the rest work on not-Assassin's Creed.
>>720298117>A game the developers aren't passionate about making will turn out shit.It's called money, money will make you passionate
>>720298220>Artists aren't fast food workersThey should be
>>720298025It wouldn't matter if they were slavishly making what the fans wanted, they would just half ass it. This is how every shitty sequel is made. The problem is they don't like the same things as people who play video games.
>will someone think of the poor devs livelihoods? >you have to respect if they make shit games>stop being so entitled>if you demand for something good to be made nothing good will be made'I don't respect game developers and I never will. Stop bitching about it on here, your'e not artists, and your job is meaningless other than providing us with entertainment. Make a good game and shut the fuck up.
>>720335301a soulless revival of a series that was made only to grab shekels from nostalgic people cannot possibly be good.
>>720298117>2010s "you MUST buy X so the devs made a sequel!" retarded shilling>apparently it doesn't matter in 2025 and a "stupid take"
>/v/ complains about endless sequels>also /v/; "REEEE WHY HASN'T X GOTEN A GAME IN 15-20 YEARS"let. IPs. die.
>>720304778The sooner you dumb motherfuckers realize slop games like Concord and nu-Saints Row are hyper-market tested executive slop basically forced on the devs, the betterEspecially now that we have stories of early development phases of Saints Row V being way more faithful (including an ending to the Dex storyline), and concept art of Concord of characters that are actually passable as cool alien dudes and not "human with green face paint" CGI pieces of shit
>>720304778He didn't say that passion alone is enough to make a good game.
>>720325294It's very likely. They reached such a level of control that they can now fire people who aren't enthusiastically supporting the party line, rather than firing those who go against it - because those people haven't been working there for a long time.
>>720298220The fact that this needs to be stated at a is jarring. I guess the west is fallen and millions must die.
>>720298025If this person were pandered to we'd just keep getting sequels to games from people's childhood twenty years ago cycling in and out until that generation got too old to play
>>720299380Different devs 1, 2, they have a new Ratchet planned as per the leaks, Insomniac is just swamped with Marvel games.
>>720335994so no proof then alrighty
>>720298025To be fair, outside of Nintendo when has "you don't even know you want this/you don't really know what you want" led into something that's actually really good?
>>720336036Worked for Call of Duty.
>>720336036You'll slurp up DEI Tsushima and you will like it.
>720335767>twisting logic that hardlmaoshould've made good sequels that i paid for, i didn't pay for your imbecilic kike defending culture war woke bullshit
>hate faggy fanboys who only want repetitions of the same thing>but also hate faggy gamedevs who act like they have the most difficult job in the world for having to hear feedback I'm afraid I'll have to simply sit on the fence.
>>720334778Too bad there's no money in reviving mediocre early/mid-00s franchises
>>720335901I always love to bring up the Concord concept art because it's so depressing to look at, it's proof positive that most modern slop "DEI WOKE" games always start as cool concepts with passion, thrown to the wolves of design by committee, executive meddling, and cash being thrown about by people who want to ape whatever's popularGo look up Starchild from Concord and take a look at this concept art and tell me this Hellboy-esque long hair motherfucker isn't 100x cooler than blue Drax
>>720298025I cannot name a single time where fans said "we want thing," the company complied, and fans actually bought it to the degree that made making it make economic or creative sense. Surely it has happened at least once, right? Of course part of the problem is that when a creator makes something and their heart isn't really in it, you're going to miss the mark. I assume sometimes it is intentional too. Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass but does anyone get what I'm saying?
Fan decide almost nothingif fan had any power, we already would have shit like Shaolin Monks 2, Bully 2, Manhunt 3, San andreas 2 electric Boogaloo
>>720336597If fans had any power we would have had three sequels to EarthBound and a dating game where you date Waluigi
>>720335901>basically forced on the devs>le evil publisher made shit game! >le greedy publisher is ruining gamingNo that was Volition. Nobody told Volition to make the driving physics shit or the gunplay to be terrible. Shut up with your vague "corporate executives" boogeyman libtard. They fell on their faces hard and they only made excuses for it when the core parts of the game wouldn't have held up to scrutiny anyway. They only claim that they didn't want the terrible characters, but the awful game was still on them.
>>720331324>g*mers just view devs as these automatons of talent that can just be frivolously deployed to any project, with the dev juice inside just being a universal yet limited resource that must be carefully rationed and applied to worthy projectsAnd what exactly happens when this “dev juice” runs out, paid vacation to replenish? Project they’re interested in or not, they’re gonna be working either way>modders, where there's no monetary incentive and it's literally all driven by passion insteadHasn’t been like that in over a decade with the advent of patreon
>>720337108>And what exactly happens when this “dev juice” runs outThe "dev juice" as a resource exists entirely in the mind of g*mers, it's not real. It's not transferable. Passion and driven work exists purely on a project-by-project basis.>they're gonna be working either wayAnd passionless work results in a worse industry. That's the POINT>hasn't been like that since the advent of patreonAnd projects driven by patreon generally end up hamstrung and lackluster compared to projects driven by passion. Thank you for backing up MY point with YOUR example.
>>720298025It's absurd that the people who make things get to decide on the things that they're going to make with the resources that they own to make things? What the absolute fucking am I reading?
>>720298025Wildly entitled adult children are way too common in current year. Shit's crazy yo.
>>720336781Well, I'm not entirely putting the blame off of Volition, but after NDA leaks and recent videos, we do know several things (open worlds elements being scrapped and turned into one time missions, body shields and combat being watered down) were literally Deep Silver's interjections, because "we don't want dev time wasted on things people don't see" and "body shields are too violent and don't make the cut internationally, remove it entirely so we don't have to make different international SKUs"So yes, the publisher did in fact make the game far worse than you seem to realize
>>720336549>I cannot name a single time where fans said "we want thing," the company complied, and fans actually bought it to the degree that made making it make economic or creative senseThat’s because the companies take the absolute laziest, corner-cutting approach because people asked for it and they think “they’ll buy it anyway.” They’ll obviously reject it if there’s no care put into it, yet companies just assume it’s the fans in the wrong for not wanting slopCan’t name any times your scenario has happened, but I can name over a dozen instances where fans ask for something only for it to be shit and no one buys. Just look at the klonoa remake>klonoa fans: “Klonoa was done dirty by shitty marketing and never got its due when it’s a great series. We wanna see him back!”>their cries are heard and a remake of the first 2 games is made>…except it butchers everything about it so horribly it’s hard to argue it wasn’t deliberate>every klonoa fan avoids the game like the plague, even going as far as to discourage others from buying it because of how horrible it was and that it shouldn’t be supported>flops>bamco probably: “huh, guess klonoa really isn’t popular after all. Never using that series again”
>devs in mainstream studios deliberately choose to do passion projects instead of giving fans what they want>scratch their heads when games don't sell and the industry collapses
>>720337928I've seen the video and what I'm telling you is that the core game was so shit it was unsalvageable no matter what. A lot of what they listed doesn't matter when they couldn't even get their core systems right. You can't look at this webm for example and tell me this was the publishers fault.
>>720298117>A game the developers aren't passionate about making will turn out shit.And that's why they keep failing despite being propped up by outside actors and special interest groups. You are making the purchasable equivalent to literal e-waste and you're still surprised that no one wants this shit stinking up their hard drives.
>the devs should make games they don't want to make this is just asking for shit games, look at Pokemon
>>720299616>-2500 Mordor coins for this post
>>720298095Motherfucker, Sly ended. It ended well. You want another fucking Thieves in Time?
>>720299880Enjoy having Dustborn level numbers then. Ain't nobody got time for dat.
>>720338135Personally, if I see a game that's been muddled to all fuck by publisher interference over "violence" concerns, suddenly not have ragdoll car crashes despite comedic violence being a franchise staple, I can at least infer somebody probably made a decision on removing it intentionally.But we're all just really making assumptions at this point until we hear more, I guess.
>>720298025>erhm, if it doesn't have a fluidsexual persons of dark hues in it I'm like not going to be heckin enthralled about working on itShut it wagie, make the furry lupin game or kick rocks.
I'll be realistic about Sly Cooper. This was not some huge playstation franchise. At the height of its popularity, it sold 1.8 million on the PS2. The 3rd one sold less than a million. Combined, they all sold less than 4 million. On the PS2. We can't sit here and say there's some huge demand when at its peak, it did merely fine. The original devs were done with it. They made 4, it flopped and killed the series. Now imagine making a Sly 5. It's going to be the most expensive game in the franchise because at this point, it'd be a PS6 title. Unlike 2 and 3, they have to make it all from the ground up. if they start making it today, it takes 3 to 4 years to come out. It'll be almost 30 years since Sly 1. There's not much nostalgia for it now. That shit would flop. Kids aren't going to play that Sly 5 over Fortnite, roblox or whatever the fuck is out then.
>>720338135>>720338717I mean, really, what makes more sense, that they couldn't get ragdoll collisions to work? Even though Insurance Fraud is still in the game?Or some dipshit didn't like it and thought it was too violent or removed the "epic power fantasy" to fall out of your car like a dumbass and eat shit?
>>720308248>disregard AAA sloppa>go after things that appeal specifically to (You)>the sheer market oversaturation from the last 40 years means that you are bound to find one thing that tickles your fancy>if you have the autism you can adjust that further via modding or just outright create your own things using it as a jumping pointTheir first mistake was thinking you need them like they're a corpo mandated drug slinger. It's the other way around if you know where to look.Nothing wrong with supporting localized entrepreneurs and small timers that know what they want. They run under their own banners and aren't playing second fiddle to some money grubbing piece of shit who is already one foot out of the grave.
>>720298025I agree, mascotshit nostalgiafags are a disease. You grew up with some of the finest games ever made and what do you become obsessed with? Scrimblo with the Dreamworks script and the furry overtones on some shovelware platformer. Waste of oxygen.
>>720304778no you faggot, that's the whole point, the game was shit because there was no passion behind it, it was just a paycheck, where do you think all those hundreds of millions of dollars go?in the pocket of the few people that are passionate, not about the game mind you, but about selling the game to whoever is retarded enough to buy it (in this case; sony) why would you ever think to yourself that concord was a work of passion? what the fuck is in your water you braindead animal
>>720299107shut the fuck up nigger kike
>>720298025Because the original team is gone. And they have woke HR roasties deciding who gets in
>>720304778They were passionate to a cause but not to the end user that is forced to pay for this. If no one wanted what you were selling when it was free they certainly weren't going to pay a box price for that privilege. You are fighting for time and presence in a marketplace where the free alternatives have mogged their premium equivalents going on nearly a decade at this point. You have more than enough metrics to look to beyond yesmen bobbing their heads around in the paid focus testing sessions.
>>720336781Had the game had the exact same flaws mechanically but been written like SR1/2 were , it would've automatically been received far better
>>720338717>Personally, if I see a game that's been muddled to all fuck by publisher interferenceNo you're just an apologist for lazy developers. It had nothing to do with publisher censorship as to why rag dolling wasn't there. It was plain and simple incompetence and we need less people like you excusing this trash. The cars controlled like shit too and that had nothing to do with interference.
>>720339489If they did a proper rendition of SR2 they would've gotten an instant audience that is tired of waiting 15 years for the next GTA.
>>720298220>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Artists
>>720304778>too stupid to understand the concept of necessary but not sufficient condition
>>720335901>>720336423The first pic seems like a case of incompetence from the 3d art team more than something that has to do with publisher influence.
>>720331324>devs as these automatons of talent that can just be frivolously deployed to any project, with the dev juice inside just being a universal yet limited resource that must be carefully rationed and applied to worthy projects. That it can be freely taken away from projects that are deemed unworthy and applied in full capacity to something else.Correct, build my game how I want it or stop existing.
>>720339604REEE UNPLAYABLE WItH OUt MY FORtNItE RAG DOLL BULLSHIt
>>720298220>Artists aren't fast food workerskstill not buying your game, Californian.
>>720299569>dev just types on a keyboard and magically an IP comes outThat's exactly what AI will allow them to do.
>>720339604Again, the game HAS ragdolls and car crash collision in the game already, so to entirely remove it from the open world is totally reasonable to assume as intentional. You're just being intentionally obtuse at this point.I'm not even making excuses for the game. It could even be Volition's dumb "MUH POWER FANTASY" they were chasing why they decided to scrap you getting hit by cars or flying off out of control. Handling like a fucking boat and crashing through traffic without a scratch is a really cheap, ugly way to make a power fantasy happen.All I was saying is it's never as black and white as retards like you simplifying everything to "WELL THE DEVS FUCKED IT UP BECAUSE THEY SUCKED AT THEIR JOBS". The devs fucked it up - but so did publishers, marketing, plenty of things came together to ruin the game, and idiots like you beelining to "BLAME THE DEVS" may as well be licking corporate fucking cock to ignore everything else that went wrong with it.
Only China and Korea can save gaming now. Japan got buck broken by the West, and even a Remake of FFVII can flop now, which shows how terrible things have gotten.
>>720339604>It had nothing to do with publisher censorship as to why rag dolling wasn't there.okay but how do you know that
>>720299197Or alternatively, the passion and love that made the original games possible isn't love. That's what made these games good, was people who wanted to make the project and had love for it actually making it. Endlessly forcing creators of all types to churn out and put out products WELL after they should have ended is exactly what put the game industry in this current state you fucking fool.
>>720339894I dunno, man, even the hyper expensive 3DCG where they could create anything they wanted to made him look like a dude in a rubber suit. They couldn't even do the ears right, and that's almost entirely vestigial to the rest of his face.I did hear a rumor Sony had plans to throw out a ton of 3DCG shorts and this design was easier to mo-cap for, which is why a lot of dudes in the game have a plain human face. Probably why they randomly had a Concord ad in that Amazon game series that went nowhere.
>you're the reason gaming is so shit because you want Suckerpunch to make the ONLY good game series they ever madeYeah even Infamous would turn out bad. So what's the problem with asking for Sly? it would force them to stop being a studio that designs open world games and push them back into much finer crafted experiences.
>>720298117OMEGA TRVKEthe zoomers are too young to have ever experienced truly passionate devs during their primesgames just aren't being made the same anymore and not for the same reasons as they once didThe heart in modern gaming is gone and what heart is there usually is relegated to 5 people in a corner working on one small thing
>>720340987Most of the developers they have at Sucker Punch now probably don't have as much experience crafting a platformer, and you could get away with a lot more jank stuff in 2002 than you can in 2026.You force those guys to make a finely crafted platformer experience when they've spent 15 years doing open world slop, you're gonna get trash or a game that takes way too fucking long to come out.What's the last game they've done with any platforming? Infamous? Remember how it used to have great parkour lines and routes in the first two games and by Second Son you could press a button to neon blur over walls and ignore it all?
>>720333309>We want to make movies not games LMAO
>>720298025So they would rather make another Ubisoft feminist DEI game over recreating Sly Cooper for the modern day? You could do so many cool things with a modern Sly game. Instead they’re making a ps3-era assassins creed game with better graphics and QOL
>>720304778Some of the deluded ones in higher positions, yes. The others just did their job.
>>720341250>Most of the developers they have at Sucker Punch now probably don't have as much experience crafting a platformerWhich is why all of those people should be weeded out specifically, get rid of all of the dead weight employed at Suckerpunch if they can't keep up. I'm tired of the modern Sony audience calling me entitled for wanting to still play legacy franchises.Sony's brand is fucking terrible now for this reason that they don't care about this stuff anymore, that they tell their studios to stick a specific range of games. The only way to actually make Sony good again is to force them into going back to legacy Playstation.
>>720299535>>720299728>video games are art
>>720298117Being passionate about something doesn't mean you are good at it i should know its like that with me and music
>>720333309>it is also necessary to continue to evolve and tell more mature things>look at what these "mature things" are>It's Sonic-liteI don't give a fuck it's got an M-rating SONIC FUCKING LITE IS NOT MATURE. Not like they even take the GOOD parts of Sonic. Their level design is abysmal and their level themes are lazy and low effort.With ND, they USED to be able to make a straight line interesting to traverse. Modern ND can't even do that. HOW IS THAT MATURE? And I don't fucking care how "visceral" your melee animations are if they're just a glorified Homing Attack. Don't get me started on the insane amount of automation they started putting in.
>>720342547You should marry yourself NOW
>>720333095Don't buy their games.Uppity assholes are allowed to make art.>>720340006Good.
>>720298025Nobody cares for tendie clone Are you a kid or what?
>>720298025I can bet nobody of you will buy this cartoonslop if they even made one
>>720298025Making games just because there's an audience is how you get soulless shit like Fifa every year. There has to be actual developer interest in a product for that end product to be any good. Making a game merely in rote fashion based on whatever checklist you think people want filled out to sell it will only result in a shitty and unappealing game at the end.
