I don't think you understand much about hardcore culture

>>720692231
The game is braindead even on very hard hardcore(and that's a good thing!)

>>720692231
I made mistake playing the game using "Transcendence" mod. It did not balance the game at all, it just made it more tedious by having bunch of items that do nothing.

Pic unrelated.

>>720692231
It's not any more difficult instead it just makes inventory carry weight a pain in the ass

>>720692231
You've picked the worst possible example because it barely makes any difference.

>>720692231
>what is the thought process behind hardcore modes?
The thought process was "let's add a gamemode for people who are *slightly* less retarded than the average /v/poster"

>>720692231
The tweaks to consumables and ammo weight is good. Hunger/Thirst/Rest is just retarded busy work.

>>720692231
>>720692231
>what is the thought process behind hardcore modes?
let's genocide trans people

I played it on hardcore didn't give the achievement for beating it after

I think healing over time and ammunition having weight are common-sense changes that should've been in the base game. The rules for eating, drinking, and sleeping are also so lax that they barely factor in. It did make my experience marginally more immersive by encouraging me to engage in the crafting/cooking mechanics more, picking up food in my path, walk rather than fast travel, etc.

>>720692231
new vegas hardcore is fine. 4's hardcore is actual anti-fun.

>>720692757
Yeah. Having to do anything besides walk forward and use vats is a waste of time. Even that's a lot of retarded busywork, I wish the game would just play itself

>>720693448
It's not a survival game, anon. Food, drink, and beds are plentiful. There is never any point in the game where you'd ever have to make choices about whether to sacrifice inventory space for food vs loot because it takes about 3 minutes tops to jog to the next town where you can buy/steal/loot more food. It does literally nothing to enhance the gameplay outside of forcing you to navigate one of the worst inventory menus ever designed every handful of hours.

Mechanics should exist to support the kind of game that is being made. You don't get a deeper experience just because you've crammed in every possible system under the sun.

>>720692231
>promises a special reward
>there is no reward

Get the perk that halves ammo in your backpack unless you’re melee. Sell or store junk that isnt your main armor/weapons. Drink from lakes/streams and eat the random food you loot from enemies, containers or vendors. HC is goddamn easy its just added flavor and makes you actually think about you’re playing for once. I’d say do it once just to see how it is, you lose nothing from that.

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>>720692231
>makes the game not fun
Source? Hardcore NV is neat and the base for Survival F4 and Skyrim. I like it.

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>>720692231
>lets add a mode that makes the game not fun

Hardcore mode is better. Its a good way to make the game more challenging the tweaks to stimpacks in particular are a big improvement. The only thing I don't like about it is permadeath for companions since they're just too dumb to keep themselves from getting killed.

>>720693185
i found a mod that lets me save anytime and tone down the incoming and outgoing damage. after that fo4 was fun

>>720693043
>open console
>achievements disabled
but then
>quicksave
>totally shut down game
>achievements enabled
sucks but yeah

>>720694406
>It's not a survival game, anon
Define survival game.
I like that it makes some of the useless items more useful and occasionally makes you jog to the next town, location etc. but I can understand why some people wouldn't. I find it forced me to explore areas I wouldn't have gone otherwise. I wasn't a huge fan of how it was done in 4 though.

>>720694596
the reward is the friends you made along the way

>>720694596
The reward was the fun you had :)

>>720692231
A lot of the new mechanics/features in New Vegas are based off of the most popular mods for FO3 at the time. Weapon mods, Hardcore mode, different ammo types, etc.

>>720695037
>Define survival game.
A game with a focus on survival that requires players make meaningful decisions in order to ensure their survival. Meaningful means you're regularly forced to make inventory choices regarding what supplies you carry. It means that certain treks will require unique planning to ensure you are actually capable of making it to your destination and back. It means rationing scarce resources and mapping out the environment so that you gradually build an understanding of "safe" routes and reliable sources of those scarce resources.

It absolutely does not include first person shooters in which food/drink is effectively infinite in all circumstances and civilization is always so close that you'd have to intentionally ignore your hunger/thirst meters for it to ever remotely be a problem.
>I like that it makes some of the useless items more useful
It's set dressing, anon. It doesn't need to be useful. It's just there to populate the world with stuff so it doesn't look too barren.

>>720695037
>explore areas I wouldn't have gone otherwise
sasuga /v/, admitting to not completing games

>>720695781
>It's just there to populate the world with stuff so it doesn't look too barren.
It makes them feel less like props which makes the world feel less barren to me.
>Meaningful means you're regularly forced to make inventory choices regarding what supplies you carry.
Fair enough, I think there are mods that change the values.
>inb4 you shouldn't have to mod the game to make it good
Yes but it's a fallout title that wasn't made by interplay so you do.
>>720696090
I've beaten the main story and the majority of the sidequests multiple times, anon, but most people who played it didn't 100% the entire game. Even now if I decided to do another playthrough I would probably find something I missed before, and you probably would too.

Why was the hardcore mode in NV so good, but the survival mode in 4 so shit?

>>720696437
Same reason NV was so good but 4 was so shit

>>720692231
>hardcore mode
>jesawyer activated
vgh... new vegas the way it was intended to be played

>>720692231
>mode that artificially increases both the difficulty and length of the game for no reason while offering no reward for completing it
very sad, many such cases

>>720696243
nah I've been through all the unlisted quests, new vegas is a solved game to me
the only things I haven't learned are speedrunner exploits that I couldn't care less about

>>720696243
>It makes them feel less like props which makes the world feel less barren to me.
The usefulness of an item to the player has nothing to do with whether the world appears barren. This should be trivially true as the overwhelming majority of games do not allow the player to collect the sheer volume of junk that Bethesda game provide. And yet few players would describe every other game as barren. Moreover, this argument is never made in regards to other junk like plates or cutlery or cans or any number of the other near valueless bits of clutter that also occupies the world.
>Fair enough, I think there are mods that change the values.
The world is not big enough or spread out enough for this to ever matter. You would have to increase the hunger/thirst rate to such a degree that it would be ridiculous.

>>720692231
Appeal to tranny speedrunners.

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>>720696818
Some of the NV speedrunner exploits are good for a laugh if you ever play it again.

I'm doing my billionth playthrough of pic related since there's stuff I still haven't seen/forgot about and some of the mods people make now add a lot. It still isn't great compared to 3 and NV lol

>>720692231
What's the reward?

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>>720692231
>mode makes you engage with the world and think just a little bit more
>this is bad for some reason

>>720692351 >>720692231
"Hardcore culture" is wanting tedium instead of challenge, grinding instead of improving, and exploiting instead of overcoming, all for the false self-assurance that you're super good at busywork.

>>720696850
>>720696850
>Moreover, this argument is never made in regards to other junk like plates or cutlery or cans or any number of the other near valueless bits of clutter that also occupies the world
Adding a use for those items is one of the things fallout 4 did right for that exact reason imo.
>You would have to increase the hunger/thirst rate to such a degree that it would be ridiculous.
An alternative would be lowering it a bit and increasing scarcity on certain items to compensate then I guess

>>720692691
This, unless you invest 70 in barter for that one perk.
Still hardcore is unbalanced shit.

>>720692231
They're fun.

>>720692231
It's actually fun, probably the best hardcore toggle in any game I ever played.

>>720694406
This is why skyrims survival stuff got cut.

>people have a really bad time when they forget about the survival mechanics at the beginning of the game and get soft locked
>let's put food every where. Even if they completely forget, food is within a minute walk any where on the map
>people still forget about eating and get softlocked
>let's reduce the penalty for ignoring your needs
>if there is food every where and the penalty for ignoring it is minor. Then why even have survival mechanics.

>>720692231
>>720697352
I think for Fallout it makes it more fun, otherwise the game as it is is pretty barebones. Probably the only series I would do this with.

>>720692231
what's the special reward?

>>720694596
>And FUCK YOU the player :)

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i started lonesome road with no equipment on hardcore and was overweight with guns and aid before i even blew up the first warhead
it never really added anything to the game

>>720692231
>cant just carry around 500 missiles and 200 mini nukes youll never use
>no instant healing so if you cant spam blood sausages, red paste and 20 different food items and not die youre just fucked, fag
Its not too bad

>>720692231
>superior game mode makes vanilla baseline unfulfilling and stupid
>the only way to elevate it is to mod and even more survival parameters designed by the dev themselves

>>720692231
>more options is le bad

My problem with "survival" modes in things like this are that the game isn't really designed to work with it. Like okay with ammo weight and survival supplies you can't carry around much but enemies are still massive damage sponges that need shitloads of ammo to kill. You still need to be able to carry shit to sell. Are you making trips out of dungeons every time you kill a single enemy so you can resupply?

>>720697383
That's casual hardcore aka retarded masochists that add artificial difficulty just to bypass it anyway with unfun methods so they can say they're hardcore.
Hardcore is about thinking before before acting and deciding how much of your resources to spend. Drink the rare potion? Buy grenades? Set the traps you can't reuse? Bring sacrificial mons in a nuzlocke? Look through every piece of equipment to make sure the loadout is optimal? Magdump your limited ammo on enemies or stick with melee and risk injury? That's the correct way to play hardcore, to generate more decisions to make rather than fucking remove risk and challenge through mindless grind.

>>720694953
>open console
>achievements disabled
I had this happen to me. Had to use console to unjank myself from a bug that trapped me in a cave. Then finished the elvis impersonator mission and the cheevo didnt pop. So I have most of the cheevos but that, the gun runner stuff and hardcore mode.

>>720706095
>enemies are still massive damage sponges that need shitloads of ammo to kill.
Only if you play on Very hard for some reason and not Hard

Fallout 4 did hardcore right with survival
The only way to make Bethesda games hard is to take away the option to save anywhere.

>>720692231
Never played this game on the regular mode desu

>>720692231
it makes the game harder which makes me engage with the mechanics more.Personally hardcore mode doesn't really go far enough so I throw on jesawyer

>>720692231
>No (Recommended)

>>720692231
>Hardest difficulty
>Enemies have 4x more health, making even the smallest of mob enemies that were originally balanced around appearing in groups take too long to kill
>You recieve 4x more damage, making you die near instantly
I will never understand people who willingly suffer through difficulty settings like this. Every person I've witnessed playing difficulties like this were audibly and visibly getting frustrated, despite their refusal to admit it, too.

Having literally infinite ammo for your Bozar is the truly unfun way to play New Vegas. Switch up your gameplay style, try actually engaging with weapon, ammo and gear crafting. New Vegas' hardcore has plenty of depth. And it makes Survival a good stat.

>>720692231
It's not even hardcore lol, if you found it hard you must be sub80IQ.

>>720693185
I feel like the problem with 4s, is that they treated it as a difficulty setting, instead of as an additional mode, so you end up having to suffer from the very hard setting's damage multipliers on top of it unless you use mods.

>>720692231
i played the hardcore mode but it wasnt hardcore at all, just more tedious
made you stash ammo you never used and constant drinking water

i dont even recall what the reward was but it obv wasnt worth it

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>>720692231
Games that are too easy put me to sleep

>>720705878
Exactly. They gave us an objectively better system then tucked it behind a checkbox like it's some gimmicky bonus mode. It's not "ironman" or some roguelike challenge-it's just how the game should've been balanced from the start. Having weight on ammo, needing food/water/sleep, and making stimpaks not insta-win buttons actually makes the resource system and world design matter. Without it, you’re just hoarding everything like a kleptomaniac dragon with no reason to ever engage in the intended survival mechanics.

Hardcore difficulty works best with level-based games. I enjoyed Hardcore in Deus Ex GDX edition. Or Nightmare mode in Quake. In open-world sandboxes like Fallout there's too much shit to keep track of and too many bullshit ways to die. Skyrim only works with legendary thanks to the fortify loop restoration glitch or else killing anything is an enormous chore.

>>720692231
>Hardcore mode
In reality all it does is every once in a while you have to eat and drink and thats about it. Stims and healing still heal absurdly fast in combat.

>>720709285
Should only change the artificial intelligence and strategies instead of a dumb fucking number change

>>720692231
In vanilla game it's garbage.
In DUST I was so close to picking cannibalism as perk because I couldn't find any food for hours and my character almost died from starvation.

>>720692231

some people just like the challenge themselves

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>>720692231
>adds a thing that would cater to a small category of specific vidya players but asks the player beforehands if he wants that thing in his game
its called game design retard

>>720709285
Thats not the reason why you shouldn't play Very Hard. Real reason why you don't play Very Hard is because you also get extra XP and cap out on levels so quickly that you have like 70% of the map left unexplored.

>>720714059
>you also get extra XP and cap out on levels so quickly that you have like 70% of the map left unexplored.
Pretty sure only FO3 gave you more XP on Very Hard.

>>720692231
>lets add a mode that makes the game not fun
but enough about Fallout 4's survival mode

>>720694596
it's the xbox live/psn/steam achievement :)

>>720696437
Because you can't save normally.
In buggy crash-prone BGS game.
Fuck no.

you take a sip from your trusty vault 13 canteen

>>720696941
How?

>>720692231
the jsaw fix is much better. they didn't have time to make it actually decent at launch.

>>720692231
it's better
survival needs are whatever but the other changes should've been the default

>>720694406
>It's not a survival game, anon.
anon theres literally a survival skill with a set of perks in the game

>>720694406
You level survival and craft food and drugs

>>720692231
Because sometimes my autism cannot be contained and I need to roleplay being miserable in an exciting new world.

>>720709285
In FNV the base difficulty is so low Very Hard barely makes it challenging.
>>720711350
I like difficulty settings changing the amount or type of enemies. Of course that requires putting in some fucking effort, hence modern games never do it.

>>720692231
Hardcore in New Vegas was piss easy and actually made the game fun. If you want no fun allowed, that would be Fallout 4 Hardcore.

>>720692231
It's fun for me. If it's not fun for you, you are free to ignore it. That is the point, I think.

>>720714580
But I played it on GOG?

In Fallout New Vegas I just carried food and water around and never saw any difference in how the game was played.
In Fallout 4 I was planning out missions, calculating exactly how much ammunition I needed, kept track of how many stimpaks I could afford to use according to my current water stash (stimpaks/radx dehydrates you). It made the whole game way more desperate at the start. A fusion core meant not getting 3 shot for 15 minutes. I hated the fact that I couldn't save unless I slept, later on I saw how it made me approach the game in a totally different way, which is the point of the mode.

>>720693043
Because you switched difficulty at some point like a little bitch, the cheevo is for going the entire run without disabling hardcore.

>>720718182
Oh yeah, the famous planning in f4
>what ammo type i need against supermutants?
>what weapon is better against murelurks?
>i'm low on ammo, i need to craft more
Oh wait there is no fucking planning in f4 unless it's building a settlement.

>>720692231
What if someone finds the hardcore mode fun?

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>this many (You)'s for such low effort bait

>>720692231
>soda dehydrates you
that was retarded.

>>720718569
NTA, but your wrong. The lack of safe places, a map littered with enemies and needing to sleep to save made FO4 survival mode much more challenging than FNV's.

>>720705728
You were overweight before you even hit the play button, fatso.

>>720718823
You can build your own safe places what the fuck are you even talking about?

>>720718569
I'm sorry I had fun playing this game, anon. Do you feel better now?

>>720705728
kek same, I ended up removing the weight off of ammo.
I like the extra survival mechanics but being forced to take every single inventory perk just so you can carry more than 2 guns is annoying as fuck.

>>720719006
>immediately backpedal when caught on lies
I will feel better when sharty dipshits forget about this site.

>>720719116
Lies? Not being ready for a landmine the moment you leave sanctuary hills could mean you were out 3 hours of gameplay. Having something on the line really improves the immersion in a way that most modern games just wouldn't dare impose on their infantilized players. If I wanted to actually improve a settlement it was necessary to keep a lot of open space in my inventory so more than 2 guns was a big no-no to me.

>>720718970
Yeah, after explore the area and gather the materials, sure. The world is still far more dangerous than FNV's.

>>720692231
Some people like being challenged.

>>720719239
>landmine the moment you leave sanctuary hills
>3 hours of gameplay
This does not calculate.

>>720719567
Do you know the meaning of the word ''could"?

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>>720718962
based

>>720719667
I know that sharty fags tend to making up things when they don't know shit about the game. To lose 3 hours of gameplay you really should be genuinely retarded, blind and deaf.

I didn't mind hardcore in New Vegas, but I also did a Logan's loophole build so all my consumables like water were twice as effective. Hardcore was literally cancer in fallout 4 though due to the save restriction alone. I tried it on console when they did the next gen patch and couldn't play more than an hour or two without a crash.

IMMERSION

>>720720137
You seem to thrive on negativity, and you keep trying to drag me to your level. Have a nice day :)

>>720720295
>sharty fag backpedaling again
kek
Yeah go play the game first.

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>>720692231
Hardcore mode on very hard is the way the game is meant to be played.
It makes some encounters a bit challenging at least.
This is also why Dead Money is the best dlc since you can't kill the holograms with usual methods.
Gun/sneak-build casuals don't even @ me.

>>720696437
Beds that give you diseases for no reason
No fast travel when you're heavily encouraged to pingpong between settlements
Retarded damage multipliers that effectively make your armor half as effective on top of the 4x enemy damage boost
I like that you can't just facetank attacks with Stimpaks, but with enemy accuracy as is anything that isn't VATS Blitz spam or Luck headshots is unviable

hardcore mode was very good in NV, the only thing that sucked was ammo weight. Stimpacks healing over time was a great idea so the game doesn't become a "pause and heal to full instantly" simulator

>>720693185
>4's hardcore is actual anti-fun

It's fun in the beggining when it makes a difference, and you're operating on smaller distances so lack of fast travel isn't a big issue. But starting from mid-levels it becomes extremely tedious while also making the game easier than Very Hard, so best turned off then.

>>720717791
>In FNV the base difficulty is so low Very Hard barely makes it challenging.
Of course it doesn't. it uses multipliers. That will never create a challenge. But it does make it boring when enemies are spongier.

>>720692231
There are some good changes but most of NV hardcore is just easy inventory busywork.
It could be fun if it changed the game world so food. water. ammo and meds actually became scarce but as it is I never felt nothing but annoyance at the needs mechanic and ammo causing over-encumbrance.

>>720692231
All you lose is like 15 IBS of carry weight to purified water and food and have to wait a little for stimpaks to heal. Its not that deep of a mechanic.

>>720704614
Cheevo.

>>720692231
Some people believe that "annoyances are good actually"

>>720723406
Friction that enhances immersion and makes the world feel alive is good, yes.

>>720692231
It isn't that challenging, there is plenty of purified water and food, you can always find a doc to fix you up... What hardcore does is try to incentivize the crafting system and add more role playing options, but then again there's enough weapons that you really don't need to craft anything, and finding resources is a chore. There is a reason why the devs do not recommend it.

It is quite overrated, I do not like how this game drags itself too much and is quite bloated. Several factions but they are all bad, I sided with Yes man thinking I would be able to control the robots and exterminate the Legion but that is just not a option. And fuck the NCR too

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>>720693185
>Doing Nuka-World quests with 4's Hardcore/Survival

usually most of the changes in these modes are fine but requiring you to eat, drink, piss, shit, and sleep every 2 minutes is tedious and stupid