>people making top games of all time lists will regularly place B games over A gamesShould that even be possible?
>>720715883essentially zero videogames have 10/10 stories, so videogames that don't try end up being much better than slop videogames that do and consistently fail embarassingly
if i want a story ill read a fucking book
>>720715883For a video game, no story is bette rthan the best story ever told. Devs will never cope with this fact, and the medium will suffer eternally for it.
>>720715883There's no such games described on this picture.
Game A doesn't exist.
>>720715883Personal preference is more important than objectivity.
>>720715883i cooka the pasta
>>720715981But if you want to play something why not go outside? Lots of sports mog games in playability
>>720715883Am fine with both types of games @_@
>>720715883name 3 examples of game A
>>720715883better stories take longer to finish and are tougher to replay. JRPGs vs multiplayer games
>>720716212there are niggers outside
>>720716212you can't have a 10/10 story and 10/10 gameplayPacing will always suffer
>>720715883>stealth italian thread
>>720717456>he lives in a third world shithole
>>720718385Buongiorno
>>720718193>the story isn't presented through gameplayNeither is 10/10, then.
>>720718474Ciao tesoro
>>720715883True 10/10 games must have replayability and the presence of a major story gets in the way of that
>>720715883you can break video games into 2 absolutely necessary components: it shows up via video screen, and you play a game. when you play fucking yahtzee there's no story necessary, and when you turn on your tv and there's just static there's no story. so story isn't necessary
>>720716213come back to vn friend we are waiting there for your return
>>720719008And?
>>720715883I don't give a fuck about story.
>>720715883i don't think italy has ever made either kind of game
>>720719659Grezzo?!?
>>720718629Arriba der Chi
>>720715883I can not believe that people who play video games just want them to be games instead of movies.
>>720715959yet somehow Sony manages to snag GOTY awards everytime they release another 8/10 game with an almost passable story and nice visuals at 30fps.
>>720715883>gamesThat should clue you in
>>720719008>>720720546Yeah and the quality of movies is decided entirely by the cinematography, and the quality of books entirely by the prose, right
I HATE Italy
>>720720534That's not an issue with games themselves and you know it.
>>720715883Media literacy is at an all time low. Even if a miracle happened and Game A spawned by chance, half the casualfags that has been dominating the gaming sphere would not understand it. While Game B is perfect for the brainrotten.
>>720720672Ma lisciami le mele sudicio
>>720720534Yeah and macdonalds is one of the most popular food sources on earth. Popularity (and goty status) has nothing to do with actual quality.
>>720715883I always mute the music of games I'm playing and just put on my own songs, and I always skip cutscenes. Writing and music might as well not exist for me, so yes the VIDEO and the GAME is the only thing I care about in my VIDEO GAME.
Games are a composite, the quality of a game isn't the average or the sum of it's parts, it's their interaction as a distinct whole.If people like things with less elements, it's because it's easier to blend fewer elements.But, also, let's be real, games with great, well developed stories don't have 10/10 gameplay.
>>720720947Then retards like you go "DUUUUH THE STORY SUX I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND NOTHING UUUUUGH"
>>720721000Why would I complain about the story sucking if I don't care about the story, retard? Nice trips.
>>720715883I play games for gameplay and not "story" you retarded mongoloidthere is no good story in any video game, if you want a good story go read a bookyou are the reason we get detailed hair simulation in games instead of good gameplay, go find another hobby or watch films
>>720721170see >>720716212
>>720721190there is no gameplay in footbal you dumbass halfwit
>>720721287Football is a game and you play it, you are retarded
>>720721324its not a video game brainless moron
games are toys and while I enjoyed watching trasnformers as a kid it only served, at best, as a launching pad for the stories I made up myself when I played with my action figuresa game having a story isn't an issue but a game prioritizing a story over gameplay always is, and if you actually like games and you think "when I did this cool thing" isn't a more memorable moment than "when this cool thing happened to me (and literally everyone else that played it)" then you're in the wrong medium
>>720721170You never read a book. Otherwise you wouldn't glaze them to prove your point
>>720721381Yes, it's better than a video game, why settle for a pale virtual imitation of the real thing
>>720720534normies like watching cutscenes, yes
>>720721424Then go play it
>>720721587Well you're the pure gameplay appreciator, you should be the one running to play it while shunning digital games
>>720715883No story of any kind means stuff like Tetris or rhythm games. Even shmups have stories.
>>720716212I don't have anyone or anything to play with
>>720718385ciao belli, Elden Ring Nightreign è un gioco difficile se non fai la solo run
>>720720705but those story games still end up in people's lists. and yes most awards, if not all, are just posturing.
>>720718474>>720718629>>720722230froci
>>720719086/vn/ cutie... am on a mission... i told you in my last post that i can't be back until 2026/1/1... and if am not back by then? you should just pretend like i never existed ,_, if i come back now... i might really cry
>>720715883Perhaps you missed a key detail in comparing "game A" and "game B". The genre and its expectations.RPGs, for example, often have an expectation that there will be an atleast decent story. So if game A and B are both RPGs then game A should be rated higher.However, if we have two kart racing games, virtually no player is expecting a good story, or even any story at all. What the players want are good mechanics first and foremost. Therefore if game A and B are both kart racing games, then they will be regarded on the same level.Additionally, game A and B could be from two completely different genres, in which case they are incomparable due to the genre expectations mentioned above.
>>720723920>What the players want are good mechanics first and foremost. Therefore if game A and B are both kart racing games, then they will be regarded on the same level.But if they're the same on every level, and one offers a 10/10 story on top, how is it not better by default
>>720716053>he doesn't knowhttps://store.steampowered.com/app/1198970/I_Am_Jesus_Christ/
>>720723435https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyzwL2Erif4&list=RDEyzwL2Erif4&start_radio=1
>>720715883For A, story takes time, demands an increased play length, you have to stop your gameplay and listen, you have to talk to and interact with characters. B is more straight to the point, cutting the fat so to speak.Let's not pretend games with great story don't get accolades, B is not better than A and A is not better than B, both have different appeals.
>>720715883Because stories are not important in video games
>>720715883there are days where I don't mind story and days where I just want to play the fucking game and not being interruptedThere is not way game A has 10/10 gameplay unless it manages to tell a story without interrupting gameplay.>>720716071
>>720724084because nobody gives a shit about story in a kart racing game
>>720724084Because people do not expect that there will be a story in the first place.Imagine a Gym pass.>the Gym offers two passes for cyclists, A and B>A and B are identical, both offers the best stationary bikes they can, with one exception>A also offers an exceptionally great bench-press machineThe overwhelming majority of cyclists does not care, because they didn't go to the gym for the bench-press machine, even if it's really fucking good, they came for the bikes, which are identical and thus regarded the same.For the exceptionally small population of cyclist gym-goers who are also interested in bench-pressing, they will be positively surprised, but ultimately they too will care about the bikes, which are of the same quality.
>>720718385VIVA LA DUCE
>>720724557But you didn't explain how it's not automatically better>>720724626So the one with the bench press is better by default?
>>720715883Top lists, review scores and awards are all pointlessIf you have a game that you would like to recommend to others you should use words to describes the game's appeal or if able you should show off parts of the game you think are worth seeing in a demonstration of its mechanicsComparing a game directly to a single other game with similar mechanics can work fine to give it an additional point of referenceTrying to define its standing within an entire genre is already a near pointless taskAttempting to rank or score a game against all other games in all genres on all platforms released across all time is plain retarded
>>720715883I honestly believe that's why half the games now are absolute trash because faggot trannies keep wanting muh story.. Like watch a fucking film if you want story, i NEVER play games for the fucking story I play games to play the fucking game. God I hate these reddlt faggots fucking up my games.... People wanting to sit back and enjoy a story in a video game are complete faggot trannies, they're not gamers
>>720724675>So the one with the bench press is better by default?No, because you did and, do not, and will not care about bench-press machines. They will not be used at all. It's existance is thus, objectively, rendered irrelevant.Let's take another example. Say I make two posts on /v/, both identical, but one of them has an extra word: "Flower". It's a nice word, it has a little ring to it and a bunch of uses and meanings, but it's ultimately irrelevant. It's an unused, un-required feature.We were talking about video games, you didn't look for that word, nor will you really care that this word exists in that posts. The second post is objectively more in terms of words, but also objectively the same in expected content.Flower.
>>720725232You are still failing to make your case, a kart game with a good story campaign and enjoyable characters would absolutely integrate with and enhance the gameplay and make it more memorable than just dry racing with zero context, it can't be compared to a completely arbitrary word in a sentence
>>720725203>HAVING VARIETY IS BAD
>>720724685>Attempting to rank or score a game against all other games in all genres on all platforms released across all time is plain retardedBut certain genres are objectively superior to others and rankings within genres are relatively well-ordered. It becomes a matter of ranking the genres. But the inconsistencies come into play when the lists attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator so they put walking sim garbage at the top over the greatest rhythm and shmups because the skill floors for RPGs are higher than it is for actual good games.Eg - You might be boot up Mushihimesama and lose all your lives in 5 seconds and decide the game sucks, whereas in a modern console game your progress is linear with time and there's no real lose condition
>>720725394>Millions of films, tv shows, books, comics etcBUT MUH GAYM NEEDS STORYYJust end yourself, troon and stay the fuck out of my vidya
>>720716212Real life does not have game mechanics. The point of games is not to play pretend, the point of games is to understand mechanics and act upon that understanding.
>>720725334It wouldn't enhance the gameplay but it would add to the narrative and make it culturally relevant. Most people don't think of it as a racing game but the only racing game I've played with a good story is GTA. Compare it to something like Fzero GX where the story is just kind of there and doesn't add anything but the game is still remembered well purely for its gameplay. If we're on a gaming forum talking among hardcore gamers we can agree GX is better than GTA SA but if we're a fluff gaming outlet like kotaku appealing to normies that don't really play games we're going to feature GTA over GX because it's an easier sell to a wider group of people
>>720715883People form attachments to characters.
>>720720817Games are incompatible with storytelling, and all the story a game needs is just enough to frame what's happening.
mamamia pizzeria I GOT DA DIAREEEHA
>>720720590Movies and books exist to tell stories.Games exist for the interactivity, gay
>>720725334Very well, I may have been less clear than intended, let me make one final example.Hopefully this will make my stance on the issue much more understandable.Imagine you're going abroad to Germany for any reason. You're going to need an insurance for your trip.>Insurance A and B are identical, with one exception>Insurance A also gives you a 1000 Euro dental assistance in Spain.>Insurance A may be better in terms of additional objective features, but you're not going to Spain, you'll never even set foot in Spain during your trip>therefore Insurance A offers an objectively useless feature and is literally identical to B for you, even though A offers more featuresNow let me ask an interesting question. If you'd be presented with the choice which one would you pick? Both A and B insurances cost the same, and will be exactly the same as the other, since you will never go to Spain during your trip. They both cost the same too.Would you pick A, simply because they have a feature you KNOW FOR A FACT that you will never use in any capacity? Why?Is it simply human greed to have more even if you won't use it at all?If you play a kart racing game, you care about the racing. If one has better story, it's nice, maybe it helps in some sentimental capacity. Good feature, but that's not why you came for at all. You want to push the pedal to the metal with or without those characters enhancing your drifting experience.
>>720725394Devs can't make video games anymore because now they have to how some DEI purple haired nigger to write a story about evil white man and the black female hero so the game gets revolved around that instead of the actual gameplay & excitement games used to have. Jesus you're fucking stupid.
>>720720969there are no game with well developed sotries, and any game that tries to be about story inevitably fails at beign a game
>>720715883I've found that the people who criticize video game writing and stories the most are people who never read novels or watch movies or anything like that. It's very funny
>>720721385100% this
>>720726205Insurance A is better you fat retard
>>720726205People would choose insurance A because it has more value but people would choose a game without story because it's less cutscenes to skip and text boxes to mash through. Forgoing story greatly enhances replayability because of this.
>>720725394variety is in the variety in media, faggot.Go watch a movie
>>720726195No one is THIS stupid
>>720726374but you're never going to Spain.
ff7 remake in the leftff7 rebirth in the right
>>720725958>make it culturally relevant.Stopped reading there. Trying to make hobbies culturally relevant already made them shit. And irrelevant
>>720726298I've read thousands of books. The only games I play are arcade rhythm games and shmups that have absolutely no story at all and are pure gameplay experiences. Otherwise, why wouldn't I just read a book instead?
>>720726447Movies don't have a use case and are categorically never good. Read a book.
People think 10/10 stories means Last of Us, Uncharted, Alan Wake, but what 10/10 story means is Portal 1, Shadow of the Colossus, Majora's Mask.
>>720726669good bait, take a (you) my friend
>>720726298all of my friends who care a lot about story games like TLOU are the once that never read a book past high school, then again it's true that anybody somewhat cultured would know not to expect much from a video game's story in the first place.So yeah heavily criticizing a game's story is peak midwit behaviour
>>720715883It's like harry potter.You could have a new harry potter game with the best possible story known to humanity in the entire history of the franchise but not a single fan will care if it doesn't provide something to fuel their self-insert escapist fantasies of being a hogwarts student.What that audience wants is to be the student, everything else is just a teritary vehicle for that, even if it's otherwise pretty good.
>>720727035>are the once thatignore my previous post, I'm retarded
>>720725759>>720726256>>720726256>2 hour long movie can the same story as a 60h+ game with the same amount of detailYou know Mario and Death Stranding can cohexist?
>>720726318what's the relation with honey and /ita/?haven't been on /int/ in years
>>720726205Again, you're appealing to features that are not integrated into the experience in any way, whereas a good story and context can turn even completing a racing game from "well I beat all the races I guess" to "holy fuck I'm doing it I'm going to beat my rival after all this time"
>>720727084>You could have a new harry potter game with the best possible story known to humanity in the entire history of the franchise but not a single fan will care if it doesn't provide something to fuel their self-insert escapist fantasies of being a hogwarts student.Those things are not contradictory to each other. I think something that all game critics and even a lot of gamers misunderstand is what a story actually is. At some point people started believe that the "story" of a game is the stuff that happens in cutscenes or written dialog but I disagree with that notion. I believe that the primary source of storytelling for a game should be the actions of the player as portrayed through the character.That means if play something like Dynasty Warriors the story should progress through a written and narrated introduction then once the gameplay starts it becomes "player character vanquished his foes and cleared a path for his allies, enemy commander sprung a nasty trap and ambushed friendly commander but player character came just in time to rescue his allies..." and so on. It sounds a bit silly to write out all of these actions in a combat focused games because a lot of it will look like "and then he fought and then he fought some more" but in my eyes this is primary story of every game and how well a written version of that story would read depends on how much effort the game spends on contextualizing its combat encountersThanks for reading my game theory blog
>>720724084>But if they're the same on every level, and one offers a 10/10 story on top, how is it not better by defaultBecause the addition of the story can dilute the gameplay experience, even if it's "10/10" since it takes up time. Imagine seeing a cutscene and characters talking between every race when you just want to play already. "But you can skip it". A game made with a "10/10" story will have it integrated deeply in the game, stuff like characters talking during the race, audiologs for the player or other shit. If the story is contained entirely within cutscenes it might as well be a movie. Meanwhile a game that doesn't prioritize story can prioritize pure 100% arcade gameplay experience centered entirely around fun with no distractions.Also that game will likely have spent less budget on the story, so the game in theory would be cheaper.
>>720725980Yeah, and most beloved character are the ones who didn't get a movie-like story overexplainging them while they vomit their emotions at the screen.Beat em up hot babes have more fans than any muh serious who cares realistic female character
>>720727602>whereas a good story and context can turn even completing a racing game from "well I beat all the races I guess" to "holy fuck I'm doing it I'm going to beat my rival after all this time"All the story you need to get that is the same Commando has. more thatn that it's just an annoyance, a waste of time and dev resources
>>720728074You seem to have trouble with hypotheticals, if the story is 10/10 then it's understood it doesn't dilute the gameplay experience by default
>>720727239Mario is a game, Death Walking isn't
>>720720534>GOTY awardsWow, these games have paid advertisements? What does that have to do with how good a game is?
>>720726641>unintelligible word salad
>>720726449You are, apparently. Have you ever noticed that games are interactive?
>>720727602You're overestimating that many players care about stories at all. There are people who will skip cutscenes left and right. You're expecting that all players have the same attachment to stories like you.>holy fuck I'm doing it I'm going to beat my rival after all this timeI have friends who skip cutscenes will happily say "who is this guy again and why should I care?" but will tell the same story for years about how he had an impromptu rivalry with some random dude in an online game and how he overcame it.A good story can emerge even in games without exact stories. Just look at the XCOM series. XCom Enemy Unknown has more fleshed out chracters than the original games, but people barely ever mention them if at all. They will however, tell stories about how their named soldier made an impossible shot that saved a mission. It's the same reason why the latest XCOM game tumbled, there are no random characters to make stories with, just scripted ones. It's up to the individual players to appreciate stories. No two players will appreciate the same game in the same way.
>>720726669>Last of Us, Uncharted, Alan Wake,>10/10literally vomit that shouldn't even exist
>>720728416ESL>>720728330It's impossible not to
>>720728517Who cares about what the players think? If game critique was a popularity contest then Roblox would be the best game of all time
>>720718629ciao bella, bella ciao
>>720728517This. Me and a couple of old friends still talk about the impossible shit that happened to a named character in Xcom2. Noone have a story to tell about the new one
>>720716071hotline miami 2
>>720728657And how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning
>>720728657>ESLyou are just making angry noises
>>720728330>if the story is 10/10 then it's understood it doesn't dilute the gameplay experience by defaultSo a non-existent story can also be 10/10 according to you? Because if I want to play an arcade game, then ANY story whatsoever can dilute my experience.Do you agree with this statement? I think the biggest issue is that we don't have a definition for a 10/10 story, it's some imaginary nebulous thing that changes based on your convenience and arguments.I'm saying that an objective 10/10 tattooed woman doesn't exist because some people don't like tattoos so she would never be 10/10 by default. You're saying "well a 10/10 is so beautiful her tattoos won't matter". No, you're completely missing the point.
If 10/10 is Dostoievskij and 0/10 is Tetris, rate videogames stories
>>720728751You trying to be funny, m8?
>>720715883Imagine Mario, but with a story
>>720728903So... Super Paper Mario and Galaxy?
>>720728779How would you feel if you ate a cardinal direction for breakfast this morning
Me and my roommate have been working on one of these greatest of all times lists. It's feeling pretty good to us so far. Trying to avoid a lot of the pitfalls a lot of these top games list get into like recency bias, only doing old games, having a really narrow scope, etc.
>>720728968That's what mario did, it's why the screen can't scroll left.
>>720724675>So the one with the bench press is better by default?No. The number of people who care about the bench press would be insignificant compared to those that don't. Among those that don't care, there would be be many opinions like "why am I paying so much for my pass, this useless thing is a problem" or "this useless thing is strange, it bothers me that it's here", or many other negative opinions about irrelevant things that you're forced to care about
>>720728806The decimal rating system is wrong. Thing I like is a 1 and thing I don't like is a 0. We should use binary.
>>720729084Fuck forgot the actual list lol
>>720729084Post the beginning of your list so we can laugh at how shitty it is(Please and thank you)
>>720729201Holy burger normalfag shit taste
>>720728826Elden Ring is a 3.3333(repeating)/10Heavy Rain is a 2/10 but could've been a 4 if didn't self-sabotage by lying to the player on a meta-narrative levelMetal Gear Solid is a 7/10 only had back by its abundance of homo-eroticism
>>720729201You and your roommate are midwits, congrats
>>720729119What the masses think is irrelevant, that's like saying no one really notices good cinematography in a movie which means it's not important to the movie's quality
>>720715959>essentially zero videogames have 10/10 storieslol what
>>720729265It's not an opinion list it's a "these are the all time greats objectively" listAn opinion list obviously doesn't have Tetris at #1
>>720729201>Balding Gay 3lmaoyou and your roommate are trans
>>720729337If no one notice cinematography it's because A it's a good movie or B the audience is stupid and would like anything.Nobody notices it unless it's bad cinematography, like cgi
>>720715883>Should that even be possible?Yeah because no matter how good the story is it takes away from the gameplay if there's too much.
>>720715883People make lists to look cool, this means they stuff their picks with contrarian options rather than list the games they actually enjoyed the most.Games with great stories are always normie hits so autists here begin to resent them.
>>720729378Great at what? The entire list is based on meta-narratives artificially propped up by journalists and big corporate news outlets. A small group of critics arbitrarily decided to circlejerk each other over games like OoT, SoTC, and BG3. There's no objective merit to these games. The only common denominator is that they are narrative driven high production value guided experiences with poor gameplay.
>>720729487>Not upset about equally gay Dragon Age Origins because it was made in the before times and a YouTuber hasn't told you to be mad at it yetabsolutelydisgusting.jpg
>>720728826>he's never beat tetris and got to launch the rocket ship to the moon ending the cold war
>>720729201Ok but if you stopped giving classics a higher spot for their legacy value and compared all games on the basis of the fun factor they offer today?
>>720729606>the audience is stupid and would like anything.Exactly, so what the masses think is irrelevant
>>720729201>Spacewar! not at #1Fake.
>>720728826Tetris story is 10/10 for a video game, it complements the game perfectly, I don't need to see a metaphor about depression or story about coming to cope with being gay or whatever in the background.This is why no solution will be found even after 500 posts, people are arguing about different things.
>>720729857You'd have iidx as number 1 and fotm shit like maimai in your top 10
>>720715883>10/10 story>gamesLOL!
>>720729656You clearly haven't played enough games if you think those are examples of journalists propping up games.Journalists prop up games because they need to be artificially propped up, stuff like Assassin's Creed, Star Wars the Old Republic, Veil guard. Shit that crumbles and doesn't get discussed once the journalists paychecks dry up. Journalist shilling doesn't create Ship of Harkinian, keep BG3 at an ungodly player count for a single player game years after release now, or keep games in discourse over the span of decades. Their sheer quality breaks through and captures the public. And yeah, there are some amazing games that don't break into the public like that, and don't receive credit like that, and it's a shame, but that's what personal favorite lists are for.>The only common denominator is that they are narrative driven high production value guided experiences with poor gameplay.Ah yes, perfectly describes Tetris, F-Zero, Super Breakout, Doom, etcYou're retarded and lacking in context and worldly experience, which is why you think everything popular is astroturfed and it should be your personal favorites at the top over them. Underage Panty Quest 3 is fine but it's not beating FF7, Chrono Trigger, and Dragon Quest 3 because while it's the safe answer, being the correct answer is how you become the safe answer in the first place.
>>720715883Story often times forces shenanigans down specific routes that aren't as good so some of the supposed 10/10s on Game A are actually like 8-9s.Look at EDF5 and Helldivers, just enough story and dialogue to make men go "Hell ya" but never enough to get in the way and both are strictly in game B areas.
>>720730125Would that be wrong?
>>720729857But that's fucking stupid. The whole point of a list of objective greats would be to list the classics. Ideally also correctly identifying modern classics to the best of your ability
>>720730078
>>720730296Yeah, it's not accurate at all to a list of all time great games. You're basically saying "here's some games I thought were hot shit in 2025" which is going to genuinely be fun for you to look back at to when you're older but it doesn't do anyone else any good
>>720723435sì ma solo per i ragazzi carini
>>720730396Many of the classics that people consider all-time greatest hits don't hold up at allBy continuing to place them high up in top lists you give them credit they don't deserve and future lists will include them because they've been listed in previous charts. It's a self-perpetuating circle of mediocritySpace Invaders is fucking boring as shit but still gets added to top 100 lists like the one anon posted above. I get why people liked it back then it but there's no point in going back to it todayIncluding legacy titles like this in your lists means 25% or more of your list are slow, boring games that only stood out against the rivals of their time
>>720730213Journalist shill games for one reason: personal gain. Sometimes it comes in the form of monetary payout from the publisher, sometimes it comes in the form of favors to friends like Gamergate, but most of the time it comes in the form of them justifying their own existence as critics by shilling 2deep4u narrative driven guided experiences over real games. They pay some cursory concessions to the hardcore by throwing in stuff like Tetris in their lists, but that is just to make it seem like they ever actually play gameplay driven games. If you actually do play arcade games seriously you would never put garbage like Tetris, Pacman, or Asteroids on your list. Only a pretender or a wannabe historian would try to force those games on there.>>720730296It would be correct, but it would be unintelligible to wordtards itt that still believe in IGN and kotaku
>>720715883Italy!
>>720730898If someone is new to video games, what's wrong with recommending them Tetris or Space Invaders?They are only boring to you now because you have already played many games over the years.I played Golden Axe Death Adder for the first time last year and I had a blast because I never played these kind of games.
>>720730581No you could still make an all time list, what I'm saying is that you can and should list older titles but only if those still deserve their ranking compared to titles released todayAge of Empires 2 holds up as the all-time greatest RTS and is still playable and fun 26 years laterSuper Mario Bros on the other hand is an alright 2D platformer and would not deserve a high ranking compared to other games in its genre released since 85, including several of its own sequels. It's ranking is based more on legacy than merit. Do games really deserve the praise when you have to say "it's only ok if you play it now but back then it was hot shit"?How is that better than promoting FOTM games and saying "this is hot shit right now"?
>>720729740>we were always at war with eastasia>0,5 = 11kys, film it and make sure it gets posted here
>>720716213Tf2 store is a 10/10 if you count external media.
>>720731118>>720730898There are classic games that weren't lauded as all time greats but stood the test of time and are still enjoyable today. Games like 1942, Ghosts n Goblins, Bionic Commando, and Startropics. By shilling Space Invaders you're taking away from the classics that aren't necessarily worth masturbating about but are worth playing.
>>720730898>Many of the classics that people consider all-time greatest hits don't hold up at all Holy Zoomer.This is simply untrue. You just lack actual broad experience in the hobby you claim to have to know this. You being too young and inexperienced to understand that a game like missile command, space invaders, and breakout are still as much fun as they were back in the day doesn't make them bad, it makes you dumbass. I like Darius more than Gradius, but Gradius is the one that revolutionized everything and caused the cascade of dev inspiration that led to Darius. Putting it on the list over Gradius because of improvements and alterations mostly appreciated by dedicated fans of the genre would be missing the forest for the treesThe closest games to not fun to play on the list are on the bottom, which is Pokemon Red, Minecraft, and the original Oregon Trail >>720730929My favorite arcade game is Emergency Call Ambulance, Darius, Sega Rally, and House of the Dead. You're just retarded and want to see your personal favorites credited as all time great genre defining games over the obvious choice.
>>720730213BG3 is gay bait and is played obsessively by aphabets.The idea that it's not astroturfed to hell and back is ridiculous
>>720716213>clash of clanshang yourself
>>720731432You don't have a single rhythm game on your entire list even though the highest grossing console game and arcade of all time respectively are both rhythm games(guitar hero 3 and iidx)That's how I know you're a filtered scrub that's better at reading articles than playing games
>>720731309>Super Mario Bros is mediocre?????You are acting like I put fucking Donkey Kong or Mario Bros Arcade on here anon. Super Mario Bros holds up amazingly and 3 and World arent majorly rewriting the book beyond modernizing some of the game structure like with world maps and saving and stuff. It's still a fantastic game, definitely warranted over SMB3 and World, good as they are, just like 64 is warranted over the other 3D platformers
>>720731636Yeah it's only like 80/100 anon. I know a rhythm game is missing and frankly it's just a blind spot so I have to play more and research it before I can be sure what would need including. Same with bullet hell
>>720731432>Holy Zoomer.>You just lack actual broad experience in the hobby you claim to have to know this.First of all I'm old enough to be your dad. Second I've played plenty of games over the years but just like you don't play every single game released today I didn't play every single game back then, including some classics.What I like to do from time to time is go back to games people hail as genre defining classics and see what they're all about. For example I didn't play Alone in the Dark when it came out but I got curious a few years ago and played that aged classic. It sucked. It deserves to be remembered for the influence it had on its genre but it does not deserve to be recommended as a game on its own meritsI cringe inside every time I see someone mention it as this highly revered survival horror game that failed to take off as a franchise due to bad sequels and an awful movie
>>720731861Yeah, Alone in the Dark isn't on my list
Only true italian anons know the real 10/10 videogame
>>720731714>definitely warranted over SMB3 and WorldWhy? Both of those are improvements over the original SMB. The only reason I can see for listing SMB1 over either of those is the legacy value of being the first game with Mario in its nameIt's fanboyism
>>720731937Ultimate Arena
>>720715883Game A doesn't exist.Games with good stories somehow always have subpar gameplay.Game B doesn't exist either as 10/10 gameplay games are somehow lacking in every other aspect.I'd still pick gameplay over every aspect though
>>720722230hai ragione grazie per il contributo al filone lupo lucio Amico fan!!11!!! aHAhAhahAHAHHAAAHAhaha SI GIOCA A LOL????? Chiamami:0531 31043
>>720731796>I know a rhythm game is missing and frankly it's just a blind spot so I have to play more and research it before I can be sure what would need including. Same with bullet hellYour "blind spots" are the only games I see as worth playing after decades of playing games. I played nearly all of your games on the list and now all I play is rhythm and vertically scrolling bullet hell shmup. And I can never go back to RPGS or platformers or "adventure" games because they're completely boring and trivial.
>>720732009Improvement means fuck all, if it's not an entry that completely redefines or a complete perfect master of the genre things there's no fucking way it belongs on a list like this. SMB3 is SMB with some new mechanics and a world map, SMW is SMB with branching paths in the levels, some new mechanics, and a more expensive world map. Theyre amazing games, theyre not the first platformer that doesn't feel like AIDS and invent world/level progression with bosses at the end of each world. "It did it first" like SMB, SM64, Oregon Trail, or "literally impossible to be topped, the absolute pinnacle of the genre" like Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 and AOE2 are the only two types of games that belong on a list like this. You can cope and seethe if you like, but there's no reason something iterative like Twilight Princess, Galaxy, or SMB3 should really be included over its predacessors or the game that came after it that actually reinvents shit
>>720727239As if comparing Mario & Death standing are the same thing?! omegacucklul
>>720732380>I only play 2 genres That's literally just Asperger's anonSorry to say it but a greatest of all time list is never going to have like 20 bullet hells and rhythm games. It should definitely have some, but I think if you really think all genres are shit besides two you just don't like video games very much and probably don't have the capacity to make an informed post about this
>>720722230Ma carissimo, vale la pena prendersi nightreign per giocarci da solo? Sembra contro intuitivo
>>720731937
>>720732730I can play and beat your games and you can't play and beat mine. And you want to talk about capacity. How funny every time a critic has a "blind spot" it's a game with a low skill floor that kills you in 5 seconds for being bad.>oh i really like all games! Except for those icky ones that actually test skill those are a blind spot teeheeWhat a joke. Get a job at IGN or something.
>>720732903preso per le tette della Reclusa, tenuto perchè il selvaggio è divertente da giocare
>>720733072avevo la versione per PS1, sono vecchio?
>>720733165>Can'tHaven't*Post your Emergency Call Ambulance win screen with a timestamp faggot.
What are some Italiancore games?Assassins Creed?
>>720715883I dislike lists where people try to to be objective or use a historian's angle, partly because those lists will have the same things bob to the top and that negatively affects my perception of those games after awhile.On the other hand, someone who puts stuff higher just because he likes it, and maybe has some offbeat choices, is probably going to be more interesting to hear out.
>>720733372
>>720731937Grezzo 2?
>>720733326>sono vecchio?lo spero proprio
>>720731937Spero non sia un gioco di calcio
>>720733372Lupin per PS2
>>720733403The thing is, even as an individual, if you are making a list and making it public, you probably want to cover as wide range as possible. Dominions 4 is a game I'd rank in my top 10 but it's not a game I'd recommend to someone unless I know they specifically want hyper autistic games, so if I make a top 10 with the intention of making it public, I'd probably skip it in favor of something more palatable to non-autists. But if you ask me a top 10 autistic games then yeah it'd be there.
>>720733573This game sucks ass but the comic is pure kino, read it if you can.
>>720734112you seem to know your way around autistic games, ever played Distant Worlds: Universe?
>>720733403It depends entirely on what type of list you're making. If you're trying to make a list of the "all time" greatest games, ideally, your personal opinions get left at the door, but not your overall experience and familiarity.My problem with most top 100s isn't safe picks. The picks are safe because most of them are correct. The issue is the range is usually narrow as shit. An IGN top 100 isn't wrong for picking Super Mario 64, it's wrong because it crammed 50% of the list with populist Nintendo and Multiplat games like Pikmin and Assassin's Creed and there's 0 Arcade/Handheld/PC/Browser games at all, and nothing Pre-Super Mario Bros
>>720729201>first 5>2 zelda's>2 bingbing'skekjej
>>720725954Waaaaaaaay more rewarding to "git gud" playing life. People unanimously, inevitably, always give up playing games, no matter how good they get.>They get paid to play chess or win compe-Oh, so life?
>>720734832Can't be helped. I'm well aware top 100s have a bad habit of throwing a game on just because it's Nintendo but it's literally 2 foundational building blocks of video games and then again but for 3D and they're all damn fun to play still and have only gotten better with options like fan enhancements, romhacks, alternate versions, etc
>>720735118Popular =/= foundational you dumbass, Pac-Land, Hydlide, Jumping Flash, Floating Runner, Mega Man Legends etc all existed without needing Nintendo's """""foundational""""" games
>>720725334>A and B are identical from the producer, except 1 thing>A + a good storyNow, LOTS of people choose A over B.A is FAR more popular! Everyone plays A! Makes WAY more money!If people are talking about games, they're talking about A! B is good, sure, but A is better! Right!? RIGHT!?!?!?>I don't talk to other people, Anon.Wake up, you're not on 4chan forum!
>>720735459Foundational =/= first you dumbass.Even though there are other games that similar gameplay for one reason to the other they didn't work or in the case of Jumping Flash were just straight up irredemable trash. Nintendo on the other hand had ideas that made those genres enjoyable or perfected it setting the foundation for those genres.
>>720735459>A bunch of games that are rudimentary also existed before these games came around and fully realized the idea and inspired hundreds of other developers to get it right in the future, so it's clearly Nintendo biasIs Doom over Wolfenstein also Nintendo bias?
>>720735797Well it sure as shit isn't foundational if people were already doing it without the foundation, Nintendo just happened to have the most marketing money and realized dumbing down everything for mouth drooling retards is the way to go >>720735846I never mentioned Nintendo bias, stop projecting
>>720735990>Original complaint was having Zelda and bingbings in the top 5>I'm not complaining about Nintendo Ok retard
>>720726205>not coming to Spain when visiting any euro countrykek enjoy the sauerkraut maricona
>>720718385DIO PORCO E PORCA LA MADONNA
>>720735118lol, lmao
>>720735990>Well it sure as shit isn't foundational if people were already doing it without the foundationWell it's a good thing they fucking weren't then. The genres existed but no one knew how to make a good one until Nintendo rocked up setting the foundation.That's how it works
>>720736335>it's suddenly good because it's NintendoBurgerism is a disease
>>720715959It's called the Sony bonus
>>720729360No, he's spitting. In all my time there's been only a small handful
>>720736439Oh, you're Chinese. No wonder you're shitposting like this.
>>720715883Italian flag
>>720731309>Do games really deserve the praise when you have to say "it's only ok if you play it now but back then it was hot shit"? Why out yourself like this?>Super Mario Bros>Missile Command>Super Breakout>Punch Out>In any fucking way not fun to play todayWhat in the casual am I reading
>>720732535>better games should rank lower than their worse counterparts because the latter came firstThat's retarded. Your top games list is intentionally withholding top gamesWhat are you even ranking at this point?
>>720736280non bestemmiare cretino
>>720732535>"It did it first" like SMB, SM64Neither of those did it first though
>>720737639It's not though, it's not considering iterative games. Kirby Super Star so thoroughly improved upon what came before it that it supplants the Gameboy or even NES game on the list. Same with ALTTP and Zelda 1 and 2.Majora's Mask brought time mechanics and schedules and Links Awakening pushed what could be achieved on handheld and both can coexist on a list like this with the other peaks the franchise has because they bring something significantly different to the table and that went on to have a lot of influence. Despite what you may believe, Super Mario Bros 3/World aren't nearly as big of a leap from Super Mario Bros to justify toppling it. They're slightly better Super Mario Bros. Twilight Princess is slightly better/slightly worse in some areas OOT. There's no world where these games are significant enough to supplant their predecessors and they're too similar to be included separately. Does SMB3/W immediately make the cut if we switch scope to best Nintendo, platformer, 3rd/4th gen games, etc? Absolutely, Super Mario Bros 3 and World are amazing. But for the purpose of a list like this they miss the cut by a bitAnd it's not as if influence is the only factor, the game still has to be very fun to still make it on. Skyward Sword sets itself apart and set the ground work for VR controls, but that games not fun to play.
>>720738438>NES Super Mario Bros isn't groundbreaking because Major Havoc existsOk retard
>>720738786Miyamoto himself said Pac-Land influenced SMB though
>>720738876Yes it influenced him to make the first fully realized platformer. Pacland isn't thatBugs inspired Pokemon, do we put bugs on the list? Or do we stop acting retarded
>>720738535>It's not though, it's not considering iterative games.Ok so why do that? You went from "I want to rank the top games of all time" to "I want to rank the most influential and some top games of all times" to "I want to rank specific iterations of the most influential and some top games of all time". You started with a broad objective and you're making it worse each time you justify a choice>Same with ALTTP and Zelda 1 and 2.Zelda 1 is actually the perfect example for a game that is upheld 100% by its legacy status and 0% its own merit. It's a boring game by all modern measure. Zelda 2 is downright terrible even. ALTTP at least deserves a mention as a good game because it's still enjoyable today without any need for nostalgia goggles, although even then I would not consider it one of the all time greatest games>Despite what you may believe, Super Mario Bros 3/World aren't nearly as big of a leap from Super Mario Bros to justify toppling it. They're slightly better Super Mario Bros.I mean their gameplay is better, their presentation has improved a lot, their soundtracks are better and they have more content to offer. The only downside to them is that they were not the first, would you deny them their accomplishments over that alone? Oh you were developed too late? Sorry bro no top games of all time list for youI understand your criteria by now I just think it's dumb to omit better games when your stated purpose was highlighting the best games>Twilight Princess is slightly better/slightly worse in some areas OOT. There's no world where these games are significant enough to supplant their predecessorsTP shouldn't supplant OOT on any list because it's a worse game simple as
>>720740201>when your stated purpose was highlighting the best games That was never my fucking stated purpose. My stated purpose was to make a list of "All-Time Greats" which is like a difficult to pin down cross section of significance to video games and still being fun to play. A personal favorites list is way better suited to judging actual moment to moment fun and mine looks nothing like this listGreatest games of all time is not the best games it's more like the most fun to play important games
>>720734405Nope. Is it anything like Stellaris?
>>720739256>it's only fully realized if it's a Nintendoe
>>720740201Super Mario Bros 3 also implements auto scrolling levels which can be seen as a negative on the overall design philosophy because it takes away from the appeal that the level can be completed as quickly as the player is able (an appeal that led to Sonics eventual creation).A large part of the reason the first game often remains the go-to choice on a list like this is that because it's bringing a new/massively refined idea to the table, it doesn't have to try to be different from anything because nothing came before it. Often times in the adding of new things to the formula weaknesses are created along with the strengths. It's usually only once a different game in the genre or series is such a massively, holistic improvement, that it starts getting recognized over the progenitor game. Super Mario Bros 3 and World are not to Super Mario Bros as Kirby Super Star and Kirby Adventure are to Dreamland
>>720743042>Doom being fully realized and Wolfenstein not is because of NintendoBased retard
>>720743515>implying Wolfenstein is not fully realized
>>720743589Not compared to Doom it's not.
>>720743672Then Doom's not fully realized compared to Half-Life
>>720715883A good story can add to a game in meaningful ways. A bad story however can potentially ruin a game. It heavily depends on the genre of the game too. I don't really remember the story of Puyopuyo Tetris and it was probably dumb as fuck, but it hardly matters for a puzzle game.Some RPGs on the other hand made me not want to touch them with a 10 yard stick after finishing them.
>>720743727Fully realized 3D in shooters definitely deserves an entry on the list separate to Doom, I just haven't gotten to that yet. Just like Half Life 2 is on the list for the physics.I'm sorry your favorite Mario got passed over for the game that invented level design
>>720716212>Lots of sports mog games in playabilityBaseball is boring as shit. You just wait around till its ur turn to smack the ball or if it happens to fly towards youBasketball is fun but im wh*te and not allowed of the court.Golf is boring and for rich people. Ya you think ur PC means ur rich? Get a country club membership and play golfTennis is for womenFootball is alright, but like if you wanna play a game as an adult where do you go? Around me the only football fields are on school property and trespassing is a great way to be added to a watchlist.also most of them are team based and who the fuck here is gathering enough irl friends who would be interested to form a team to play a sport in the year 2025?? Fuck that instead of planning a time where a team of idiots can meet outside with a basket ball ill just boot up TF2.
>>720743831some itt pretend to don't know the difference between genres. i'd never waste my time with a jrpg with a shit story and good gameplay. i don't mind very simple stories like the first FFs or DQ, but if it's there and it's garbage, then i couldn't care less about gameplay. Meanwhile i clearly don't care about story in shooters or platforms, i like it when they add a bit, but it doesn't change my enjoyment of the game
>>720744260JRPG and like point and clicks hinge the most on story for completely different reasonsPoint and clicks hinge on story because the entire puzzle logic is tied to the storyJrpgs are hinge on the story because the mechanics are so simple you can't miss in setting up the game atmosphere
>>720744457Jrpgs don't need a lot of storytelling. Outside of persona the focus tends to be on gameplay and exploration.
>>720744579i agree it doesn't need a lot, you can see a lot of lore and worldbuilding with exploration, but that little story has to be good, otherwise i don't feel motivated to keep grinding etc
>italian tourist comes up to me at work and asks me something in italian like i'm supposed to know his language>answer in english that i don't speak italian >still speaking italian to my face>answer that i have no idea what he's saying>looks at me in utter confusion>this back and forth happens 3 more times before he gives up and speaks broken but perfectly understandable englishwhy are italoids like this
>>720715883> video games with 10/10 storyWhat…you mean length? Because there is no game with a story that can stand up to a proper book.Story in games is like graphics and music. Window dressing that has the sole purpose of enhancing the experience of PLAYING the video game. Interaction is the defining quality of the medium. It is why games like Pac Man and Mario are bigger than Metal Gear.
>>720745407>It is why games like Pac Man and Mario are bigger than Metal Gear.They aren't and MGS has nothing less than a book.
>>720744812se non usi un traduttore non è colpa sua
>>720745713yeah i love gabagool too but what does this have to do with anything
>>720715883if you have to sacrifice one of those categories for the others, story is the one to do it
>>720715883no such thing as 10/10 storyit'd require the story to be endlessly replayable and enjoyable, which is nearly impossible
>>720747950No it wouldn't
>>720715883Maybe the gameplay of B is leagues above the one of A in terms of actual fun, and maybe I dont care about your story because 99% of vidya stories are shit
>>720715883Story is just one of the many tools a video game has the option to utilize in its design. There are great games with bad graphics, mediocre music, weird UIs, simple gameplay, complex gameplay. But there's no great games with bad gameplay
>>720749260>But there's no great games with bad gameplayThat's wrong though
>>720749342Give me the game so I can laugh at you
>>720749653Any JRPG
>>720729360its the average pseudointelectual that says the only good stories are in books and then collapses the second you ask them to name a single good book
>>720715883Italy thread?
>>720751367sì
>>720715883You really don't get it, op huh? Aame A and B are both 10/10 games, but A is also a 10/10 movie whereas A isn't
>>720750935So you can't name a single game and decided to shitpost instead.
>>720751552Final Fantasy 7
>>720751590FF7 has good gameplay
>>720750935Funny, and almost true. But the actually fun JRPGs manage to use the audio/visual/narrative component of the genre to carry the simplistic gameplay. And the good ones still have elements of appeal (most have character building, monster games have team building, many of the games have timed hits, combos, elemental advantages to). But SMT proves even the traditional numbers based combat can be fun if designed well. Most are not, though, even many beloved ones have terrible combat
>>720751774nah
>>720715883game B likely has more replayability. I love a good story in games, but often times the story takes too much out of the gameplay or requires very linear play. It might be a great experience but you will play it very infrequently. Meanwhile games that have little to no story dont constantly bog you down with cutscenes and dialogue - usually make for the best actual game experiences.
>>720715959if you're going to be a wishy washy homosexual, no game has 10/10 anything because the point of perfection is finality.
>>720757878Replayable games are usually slop
>>720715883game A is literally only a few JRPGs and even then calling their gameplay 10/10 is a bit of a stretch
>>720729201Just gonna say that Missile Command is a good pick. Playing a proper cabinet with the trackball and the three little buttons is a very good time.
>>720715883There are no A games, and I don't even know if there's any B games.
>>720715959fpbp. writing in videogames sucks so stop wasting my time.
Wow so many self-reports ITT, /v/ anons simply don't play good games it seems, makes sense the state of the board is absolute unimaginable shit
>>720762587>Like 150 posts of anons whining because someone called Super Mario Bros good
>>720715883Interaction cripples a proper story and vice versa.To allow a game to tell the player's story with the same level of depth that a book tells a given story requires technology we don't have and likely won't have for decades or hundreds of years, the fact alone that the game will have to allow for every reasonable possibility, as opposed to a non-interactable medium that tells of a single, pre-conceived chain of events means that such a technology would have to exceed tens of orders of magnitude of what we have now.
>>720715883Yes.Story is irrelevant in video games.In fact - story/plot is the least important component in writing in any medium.
>>720715883B, all day every dayA lack of story frees up more gameplay options
