Why are physics puzzles just an indie game thing now instead of a AAA feature?
>>720744836It's AEvery poster below me is gay
>>720745889It's B.I remind the anon above me that when I fuck him in the ass.
>>720746908>fakeB>gayfucking anon in the ass
"It's C" I shout from my chair in the corner while the other two are having sex.
>>720744836i dont know which one it would be now im gonna sage if thats ok
>>720744836
>>720751120Exits at 1m/s (relative to the blue portal which we consider stationary)At any moment while the rocket is going through the portal, any point on its body has a speed of 1m/s relative to the portal (both the orange and blue side). The parts on the orange side could be measured at 1000m/s though since you're measuring the orange side as 999m/s.
>>720751423So does the rocket flop out of the blue portal or shoot through at high speed? Can you visualize it? What would it look like?
>>720751849It travels smoothly through at 1m/s and continues travelling at that speed (assuming this is all happening in space without gravity or air resistance). It doesn't plop or flop or stop, it keeps moving in a straight line.
>>720751120Using a rocket was a mistake because you don't want it acceleratingThe answer is it's 1 m/s as the rocket leaves and it remains 1 m/s even after it has fully left. Of course that's going to be the answer of anyone who is Bpilled. What you want to hear is how Afags are meant to answer this.
>>720752217I remember an Afag once arguing that picrel was completely accurate and sensible, so probably that if anything. Smoothly emerge from the portal and once it has done so "resume" its inherent speed of 1000m/s.
>>720751967>>720752217So while it is being propelled by thrusters with enough force to reach 1000m/s, it will travel at 1m/s even after it has left the blue portal?
>>720752217>>720752365This is a completely different scenario because the rocket is moving.In OP the cube is not moving hence it will still not move after exiting.
>>720752365At what point in the rocket will it resume it's inherent speed? Does the exhaust count as part of the rocket? Would a string dangling behind the rocket prevent it from resuming its speed because then technically not all of the rocket has passed through?
>>720751120A fags have no answer
>>720752418>propelled by thrustersThat would mean its accelerating. If it's travelling at a constant 1000m/s through space the thrusters would be off. I assumed you have thrusters in the pic just because you were lazy with your clipart.>>720752557That's literally an identical situation.Now if you want the thrusters to be on, the rocket is constantly accelerating. The portal transition would remove 1000m/s from its speed but the relative motion would still be fluid and seamless. The rocket would continue accelerating as it passes through and continue accelerating after it left the portal.
>>720752724not at all. The main argument for A is inertial frames. That is not the same in your cherry picked rocket example.You're arguing that if I jump while in a train I'll stay stationary and the train will just keep going leaving me floating behind
>>720752365>arguing that picrel was completely accurate and sensibleProbably because it's accurate and sensible
>>720752862Right, I thought you were disputing that >>720751120 and >>720752365 are the same lolAlthough, in the rocket example if you pick your first inertial reference frame as one which is travelling with the same velocity as the rocket (1000m/s right) then in that frame the orange portal is travelling 1m/s to the left and it's basically the same as the OP pic.
>>720753089Where is the force that accelerates the cube from 1m/s to 1000m/s when it stops touching the portal?
>>720753349It's the same force as the beginning idiot.
>>720752724Ok then replace the rocket with an object traveling 1000m/s without accelerating.
>>720753780There's no force at the beginning, the cube has no acceleration.
>>720753804There is no way you're this stupid
>>720754110Oh so you don't have an answer. That's ok.
>>720754110Oof Bfags BTFO.
>>720753804It exits at 1m/s relative to the portal, so 2m/s leftwards.No matter which direction and what speed you put things in, it's still just rel vel in = rel vel out.
>>720753804You're like the kid in math class that always mixes up addition and subtraction
>>720754417You dumbfuck. It enters at 1m/s but leaves at 999m/s and then resumes it's normal 1000m/s
>>720753804In this scenario it is entering the orange portal at 1m/s and yet stationary in the blue portal? So it won't ever exit.
>>720754417Does the direction of movement of the blue portal even matter?
>>7207544172m/s relative to the blue portal or the observer?
>>7207511201000 m/s at all points in time
>>720744836No idea.It's B btw.
>>720754731Only in regards to the speed of the rocket relative to the portal. Not relative to a stationary point
>>720751120>>720753804No coherent answer so far
>>720744836the puzzles are in the settings
>>720754731No, the rocket always comes out in the direction the portal is facing. Though if you had the portal facing behind the truck and the truck moving at 1m/s it would be like gifrel.>>720754624What force?>>720754815The observer (who is observing the portal moving at 1m/s)
>>720744836>Why does a puzzle where an object is resting in two different moving inertial systems simultanously not have a clear solution when we apply classical mechanics haha
>>720754896We're trying, faggot.>>720754919So it loses all speed once passing through the portal? I'm trying to understand why it would go from 1000m/s to 1 just from passing through the portal.
>>720754896Just because you're too stupid to understand it doesn't mean it's incoherent
>>720755207Because the portal is moving at 999m/s. Only 1 metre of the spaceship can pass through the portal every second.
>>720755207This is assuming the rocket is a hypothetical object that is moving at 1000m/s constantly under its own power.
>>720755273The orange portal is moving at 999m/s. Once it passes through the object is still going 1000m/s while the blue portal is only moving 1m/s
>>720755207You're on a highway moving at 60mph and a car passes you at 61mphHow fast is the other car moving?How fast is it moving relative to you?What would happen if you stuck your arm out and it was struck by the car?If you arm wasn't shattered on impact, where did the energy of the car moving 61mph go? Did the car slow down?
>>720755552>Once it passes through the object is still going 1000m/sNo, 1 metre of the object comes out of the portal every second. That is its speed. There's no "inherent speed" that it resumes after the tip of its tailfin stops touching the portal, that's completely non-physical.Speed is just how much distance something covers in a certain timeframe, it's not a property which is stored in an object like mass.
>>720755273In this >>720755351 scenario what happens? We're already talking about hypothetical portals, so imagine a hypothetical object that is moving at 1000m/s through whatever self contained force you want. Why would the portal drop its speed to 1m/s even after it's left the portal.
>>720755713Portals aren't real either so I guess this is pointless.
>>720755778That's what I'm talking about, an object moving at a constant velocity.If you mean that it's always trying to return to 1000m/s (like a car with cruise control) then it could start accelerating if and when its speedometer registered that it had slowed down.>>720755912We can still entertain a hypothetical using what we know about real physics and the game's canon. It's dumb to just say "portals aren't real therefore if a cube goes in a pony comes out".
Imagine a long ladder passing through a portal, and take the exit portal as stationary. You're an observer standing in the same room as the exit portal.It doesn't matter if>the ladder is moving but the entry portal is still>the ladder is still but the entry portal is moving>both are moving at slightly different speeds in the same direction (like the rocket example)Whatever is happening on the entry side, you can still stand there and count the number of rungs which are coming out per second. If the rungs are 50cm apart, and you see 2 new rungs every second, then the ladder is coming out at 1m/s. If you see 3 rungs then it's coming out at 1.5m/s. That is the ladder's speed. There's no "true" speed that it can revert to once the final rung is through.
>>720752557But you're agreeing to the rocket's motion changing?What's the point in putting your argument in the idea that the cube remains stationary in the original problem if you've already agreed that the state of motion of something can change when it goes through a portal?>>720752862>The main argument for A is inertial frames.Literally the opposite. A as an answer is built on a collective failure to grasp reference frames as a concept.>You're arguing that if I jump while in a train I'll stay stationaryNo one is arguing that. In terms of inertial frames you're either using the train as the frame in which case the person is jumping up and down on the spot, relative to the train. Or you're using the earth's surface as the frame in which case you're acknowledging the person is moving with the train and continues moving with the train during the jump.
>>720744836There are only 2 physics games of all time, Zelda 1 (2017) and Zelda 2 (2023)
>>720755912>this is pointlessThis topic is actually amazing for teaching people the nature of reference frames. When you see someone answer A it's basically a red flag that they still think there's a "true" state of motion. I know this because I never really grasped it myself at first.
>>720758008Even when I was studying physics in uni it took me a long time to really grasp that there's no "true" coordinate system/reference frame. Connected but somehow even worse was accepting that there's no middle of the universe.
>>720751423>>720752724>>720754417>>720757607>relativeWhy are Bfags so obsessed with relatives? Is it because they're all retarded inbred cousin fuckers and are unable to not think about fucking their relatives all the time?
>>720759434>question is 2+2>"why are you so obsessed with addition?"
>>720759434Tell us what should happen to the rocket in this picture >>720753804Assume it's travelling at a constant 1000m/s (not accelerating) before it interacts with the portal, and that there's no relevant gravity or air resistance in the situation.
Bfag coming by to remind anons that these threads always devolve into Atards trying to explain how something can change position over time without it being "true" movementI've grown mostly tired of these threads except to chuckle
>>720759639Oh, I get it. The rocket is supposed to be your penis and the portal is your cousins pussy. Not sure how that relates to the original problem though.Listen, I can see that you're obsessed so here's some advice. Maybe you should consider finding someone more distant to reproduce with? Would do your genes a lot of good and your kids might even come out with an IQ above 80 and thus realize that it's A.
>>720759901>Bfag>posts definitely proof that the answer is ATypical of your kind, isn't it?
>>720760024Why wouldnt the cube move off the platform?
>>720760024
>>720759492Addition doesn't relate to incest, so not sure how that's relevant here. Incest is really the only explanation for some "people" being stupid enough to believe in B, and with how much Bfags talk about relatives, it's probably a freudian slip.
>>720760283
>>720760194>question is "what's the chances of a 12 with a pair of dice">"why are you so obsessed with probability?"
>>720760465>Now the Bfag is talking about pairing with 12 year oldsShould've expected pedophilia to be involved too. It seems to go hand in hand with incest.
>>720760357>changing the scenario to dodge the question
>>720760671>question is "what's the area of this square?">"why are you so obsessed with multiplication?"
>>720760847>Talking about multiplying with someone from the same areaAre you finding some way to keep bringing up incest on purpose every time or is it just freudian slips?
can you fags stop arguing about incestportals can be used for much sexier purposes
>>720761872The Bfags started it and I don't think they'll ever stop with how obsessed they are.
>>720761508>question is "what's the rate of genetic disorder in the offspring of first-cousin marriages">"why are you so obsesssed with interest rates?"
>>720761508>Are you finding some way to keep bringing up incest
>>720761872You can do that without portals.
>>720762269>Now he's talking about marrying his first cousinWell at least I got you to admit and stop hiding it. I quit. Not like I could convince your inbred brains that it's A.
>>720748928C is that the gravity would cause A. but the cube doesn't plop, it stays on the portal surface from gravitational pull.
bump
>>720763028
>>720763028Your "C" is just A but more nonsensical. The C presented in >>720748928 demonstrates how the game engine handles it.
Damn, Afags were actually silenced. That's rare.
>>720751120>What speed does the rocket exit the blue portal?1 m/s as measured from the blue side.>What is the speed of the rocket at each point?1 m/s across all specified points in time as measured from the blue side.1000 m/s across all specified points in time as measured from the orange side.
>>720744836because AAA games want to cater to the lowest denominator.
>A fags when they realize that the experiment takes place on Earth, which moves through space
>>720760024>posts definitely proof that the answer is Awhere?
>>720769728And if the orange portal stopped moving after the rocket ship went through, the speedometer measuring the rocket's speed on that side would suddenly read 1m/s as well, even though nothing has changed with the rocket ship
>>720770376Afriends have a very impoverished imagination so you have to be careful with them. You can show them the patently absurd consequences of their stance but, they won't question it; the mere fact that they're seeing it convinces them that it's correct, because how could they be seeing something impossible?
>>720770458Correct. And if you reversed the orange portal long after the rocket made it through, it will read like it reversed on the orange side.Similar phenomena would also have been the case when measured on the blue side before the rocket had entered.
>>720770920So we agree it's B, right? just to be clear
>>720771176Yeah, I drew B.It's the only theorem of the two that behaves consistently.
>>720761872I love Chell.
Holy shit, after over a decade of these threads I am a Btard now. Because all that matters is how fast an object travels through a portal. It doesn't matter if it's the cube moving or a portal moving, how much time does it take for it to go through?Wow. Alright, we can stop having these threads, thanks everyone.
Portals can't be on moving surfaces so the scenario is impossible and the question has answer
>>720772837i wish portal 2 hadn't fucked up that as the catch-all answer
>>720772837The earth is moving, how can portals be on earth?
>>720744836AAA games are made for a "modern audience"
>AAA games>no BBB gamesB-ros... we fucking lost...
>>720751120The rocket remains 1000 m/s from the orange reference frame and remains 1 m/s from the blue reference frame, before, during, and after crossing. Simple as that.
>>720773098Retard
>>720773271Let's say the rocket is 100 meters long. Then from the orange portal's reference, it takes .1 seconds for the rocket to pass through from the moment of contact. From the blue portal's reference, it takes 100 seconds for the rocket to pass through. How do you reconcile this contradiction?
>>720773476How much time does it take for your butthole to shit out a stinky log? Does it simply plop out or does it shoot out?
>>720773579>Let's say the rocket is 100 meters long.>Then from the orange portal's reference, it takes .1 seconds for the rocket to pass through No, of course not.The orange portal is clearly travelling 999 m/s in the image, and the rocket is clearly travelling 1000 m/s. For every 1 second that passes, the rocket gets 1 meter closer to the portal.If the rocket is 100 meters long, it takes 100 seconds for the rocket to pass through the portal.
>>720773271>>720773579That's wrong. An observer sees the rocket moving at 1000m/s and the orange portal moving at 999m/s, but the portal and the rocket are approaching each other at 1m/s, which is the speed that the rocket would leave the blue portal.When you're driving on the highway and another car passes you, a speed camera mounted on a road sign might record you driving at 70mph and the other car moving at 75mph. But the passing car's speed relative to yours is only 5mph. If you bumped into each other the immediate impact of the collision would be relatively minor, compared to hitting a stationary tree or parked car where the relative velocity of the impact would be 75mph.If you were observing the rocket and the orange portal in the sky, with the blue portal right next to you, you would see the rocket and portal rapidly moving across the sky but the rocket would close in on the portal relatively slowly, and this is the speed that the rocket would emerge from the portal next to you.>but it's a rocket, shouldn't it keep moving very quicklyUsing a rocket instead of an inert cube is a bad example because you tend to perceive rockets as accelerating, but in the example the object moving through the portal is simply moving through space at the constant speed of 1000m/s.If it WAS accelerating, it wouldn't really change anything for the rocket which would continue to accelerate at the same rate it was before. An observer would record a sudden change in the rocket's velocity, but just as with the objects moving at a constant speed, the rocket would not experience any change as it continues moving at a constant rate of acceleration.In all cases, the object's inertia is maintained in its frame of reference.
>>720772617you're welcomeyou've now been recruited to fight the fight for truth thoughthe waves of A-tards never stop coming
B homos will never recover.
>>720773271The rocket wasn't even going 1000 m/s in the orange reference frame to begin with.You're right about it moving at 1 m/s in the blue reference frame on and after leaving though.
>>720751120The rocket would exit the portal out at 1000 m/sAs the rocket enters the orange portal slowly, the part that appears on the blue side first would be jettisoned and pull the rest of the rocket with it. Visually it'd look like the rocket came out of the blue portal at 1000m/s and gets sucked into the Orange Portal at 1999 m/s once contact is made
>>720776484Oh no! Wait... We've actually refuted this one a thousand fucking times already. You know how B is relative speed in = relative speed out? Why don't you apply that here and see what that implies?
>>720776775there's no "relative" speed you fucking stupid B nigger
>>720776753That directly contradicts the one thing A is supposed to stand for, which is conservation of momentum.
These threads are just B fags and B fags false flagging as A fags spamming microsoft paint images of completely different scenarios to make a "point" and mix letters randomly to waste your time as much as possible.Stop feeding the trolls.
>>720776886no it doesn'troll a ball on a flat surface, have it roll pass through a ring that's moving slightly sloweron the 1st face of the ring it's "faster" and passes throughon the 2nd face (which in the portal experiments is fixed), the moment the ball passes
B tards?
>>720776885Oh dear...
>>720776885Literally the only way of measuring speed is relative. But I'll spell it out for you.The cube is moving relative to the blue side as it moves down over it.Which does mean the cube leaving the orange side at that relative motion. However it's also leaving relative to an exit that's already moving down. So it cancels out and amounts to the cube not moving. Which is why the cube doesn't launch even under B's logic.But you weren't smart enough to understand that.
>>720777031Oh hey, I remember you from the last thread. Does that mean you consider yourself a Bfag, yet in spite of that, you completely fail to understand how those MSPaint images all accurately depict B? What's your understanding of B?
>>720777205 explain>>720777143
Fuck this puzzle bro.The real question is would you use portals to fuck your own ass or suck your own dick.Gay or masturbation?
>>720751120Hm.As the rocket is translating between the two portals it is moving at 1 m/s.However once the entire rocket has passed through its speed changes to 1000 m/s.
>>720777070Sorry, care to try that again? Actually, you needn't bother; there isn't an experiment involving balls and rings that can actually prove anything about the one relevant part here. But it still looks like you've got things entirely backwards in a way that even your experiment should actually show to you.
>>720777143The B side IS what would happen if the teleporter doesn't also change's the ork's state of motion. If you see the Ork arrive safely then that means the B logic of the teleporter changing the Ork's motion had happened.>>720777294Was already typing it out you impatient fuck.
>>720777294>>720777143Yeah you've got them backwards
>>720752365This is almost how it would work ingame. As soon as the object passes a certain threshold through the orange portal, the game would immediately teleport it to the blue portal with its speed at 1000m/s.
B fagsexplain how a falling hoop imparts velocity on objects passing through it
>>720777369Porque no los dos?
>>720777589Except it doesn't work like that in-game.
>>720777143ork use teleporterork no use portalork is well
>>720777369both
>>720777385What force?
>>720752365this is accurate, as goofy as it looks
>>720777614>B>Draws a hundred different scenarios showing different applications of their logic to demonstrate its consistency and illustrate how it makes sense if you look at it from a different perspective>A>Draws a thousand hula hoops after being explained why it's a strawman 999 times
>>720777614Its a portal not a hoop
>>720777768B fags deluding themselves is not logic
>>720777797a portal is a hoop, the distinction is that each side isn't attached to each other and can have different relational speed
>>720777768not an argument
>>720773098>earth is movingNot ingame.
Are people such retards that they cant grasp momentum? Portals portals have items going through it maintain momentum, the ITEM. Its not hard, morons.
>>720777956Indeed, a hula hoop is not an argument.
B-fags are just purposely trolling which is why these threads always suck.
>>720778108>Are people such retards that they cant grasp momentum?Yes you are, since you can't see that any common portal usage in the games change momentum.Momentum is a fucking vector and changing the direction of a movement means changing momentum.
>>720778108Yes, the cube maintains its momentum as seen through the portal and continues its path, it doesn't suddenly stop. It's literally what happens in the games. It's a solved problem.
>>720753349The portal is basically an exotic hole.It behaves as though the two openings are spatially continuous, even if they aren't.This allows for situations where we can have one side of a hole is moving while the other is stationary.Even though the stationary portal isn't moving its relationship with the portal moving at 999 m/s causes the rocket to escape it at 1 m/s, up until the point where it fully exits the stationary whereupon the rocket proceeds forward at 1000 m/s.
>>720777070>the moment the ball passesThe ball would make physical contact with the ring and apply friction due to it's rotation and gravity.This obviously would not apply to a similar experiment in the air or space, where the ball wouldn't have to touch the ring.only meant to tag this one post oops
>>720778248The truth is the best way to troll people who are too proud to admit they're wrong.
>>720778291That's inconsistent, both with itself and with your characterisation of the portal as a hole.
>>720777614It doesn't.See the responses to >>720776484 for how hula hoops actually work under B logic.
A is correctB fags are literally trolling>b-B-bu-HUSH kid, go back to posting xitter screencaps if you want you so muchalso not video games
>>720778280In A it is the top portal slamming down on the Cube. The thing the portal is ON has momentum. The cube's momentum is 0m/s. It shouldnt even plop out, the only effect on it would be the effect the thing its sitting on gets from being slammed into, so a little shaking.
>>720759901I acknowledge this is accurate.The box still wouldn't be flung off the pedestal.Because it isn't moving.Its being translated to another point in space.You see that translation happening quickly and assume that must mean that the object being translated is moving quickly, which is not the case.
Stupid B tards
>>720759901this is literally proof for Aaccording to B fags the cube should have flown into the fucking air
>>720778550>admits to being aware how many threads we've had on this>STILL hasn't figured out it's BWhy would you embarrass yourself that much?
>>720778738
>>720778765>he's trying to smugpost while having done the equivalent of pulling his own pants down in front of everyoneNo. Why would you embarrass yourself like this?
>>720778727It should have. You're supposed to look at this and intuitively realise how completely fucking retarded it is. A monkey could tell it's wrong.
>>720778934Looks fine to me, though
>>720777696Huh?Its relative motion or something.One side of the hole is moving away from the rocket barely slower than the rocket is approaching the hole.Until the rocket' fully translates through the hole it will appear as through its moving at 1 m/s to somebody looking at the stationary portal.How are you having trouble intuiting this?
>>720778727The entire point of that animation is it's showing how retarded A logic looks.>>720779196I'm sure it looks fine to a retard.
>>720778434How so?I explained myself.Do the same.
>>720779242Why would the cube fly away if it's not moving?
>>720779273A hole cannot hold back something moving through it, and there is no reason for the rocket to suddenly blast off if it wasn't before, or alternatively, for it to go slowly if it's actually blasting off. Pick one. It has to be consistent.
>>720779294You see it moving.
>>720779948It's not though?
>>720779294Better question, why isn't the cube being pushed about by the platform as its moving violently up and down?If you were to jump in the way of the platform as it was moving violently up and down is it your belief it wouldn't beat the shit out of you?
>>720752557>In OP the cube is not movinghow will Afags ever recover?
>>720780097>Actually my lying eyes ARE wrong, yes, I'd rather subscribe to my high school understanding of physics>My GPA? Er... why do you ask?
>>720779773Nothing is holding anything back.To be clear, at no point is the rocket ever not moving at 1000 m/s.One end of the hole is moving away from the rocket.So the rocket exits equal to the speed at which it enters the moving side, until no part of it remains on the moving side of the hole.> That doesn't make senseYeah, its a nonsensical sci-fi concept which is instantly translating matter across disconnected points in space.
>>720779294
>>720780694Okay but how about we take the sci-fi concept and have it make sense instead, i.e. B, which is consistent? If you're going down the route of "whatever, it's sci fi, I don't have to explain shit" then why not go with something that may not make sense to you either but at least works?
>>720777369Fucking your ass is gaySucking your cock goes both ways but I've heard from people flexible enough that it feels more like sucking a dick than having your dick sucked, probably because you're focused on the sucking
>>720780694>at no point is the rocket ever not moving at 1000 m/s>he thinks speed is an objective quality>he fell for the preferred frame of reference memeoh no no no Newtonbros...
>>7207448361. In order to make a good puzzle, you need to be a smart designer. And modern AAA devs aren’t that.2. In order to solve a puzzle, you also need to be smart. And modern audiences are not very smart.
>>720781050Case in point, you could build a game around B but Valve's playtesters wouldn't get it
>>720778291What you are saying is incoherent gibberish. Objects don't really exist, in reality there are just atoms, whose arrangement gives the illusion of an object. It makes no sense to talk about the entire object exiting the portal.
>>720780861Okay.Describe how portals work then.In detailed, realistic terms.How do they transfer matter over distance.What mechanic is at play?What are their physical properties?
>flying on an airplane>bro asks me to pass him a drink from the cart>I toss the water bottle at him>the water bottle moving at 500mph blows a hole in the side of the plane and kills us both instantlyAbros... why did it have to be like this...
>>720781301Like holes. What goes in one end, comes out the other. Simple as.
>>720781301it's like a hula hoop
>>720781294And at any point during the process of translating an object between two portals placed on opposing ends of a room that object should dissected countless times as atoms become estranged from their neighbors.Except they don't because that's simply how the fictional technology in this hypothetical works.
>>720780861sci-fi still has to be at least somewhat compatible with reality as we know it and also respect basic logic. A is utterly incoherent nonsense, it results in matter visibly touchably moving yet some how not moving. It results in matter suddenly stopping dead for no apparent reason. It leads to uncountable numbers of extreme absurdities that utterly shatter the workings of reality as we understand it.B on the other hand only minimally effects reality. Normal physics is fully obeyed except at the portal boundary. The magic happens there, and everywhere else the world behaves normal and sane.
>>720751120here's a question. say that when the rocket is halfway through, the orange portal increases its speed to 1000m/s. now you've got the back half of the rocket traveling at 1000m/s while the front is stationary, sticking out of the blue portal.how would this scenario feel to any people onboard the rocket? assuming it's something they could move around freely in, what would happen to someone who walked (or floated) from one half of the rocket to the other? how does inertia apply here?
>>720781704>And at any point during the process of translating an object between two portals placed on opposing ends of a room that object should dissected countless times as atoms become estranged from their neighbors.But they don't become estranged. Motion through the portal is entirely continuous. >>720781794>sci-fi still has to be at least somewhat compatible with reality as we know it and also respect basic logic.Yeah that's what I was telling him
>>720782141 Exactly. It's like people keep forgetting that this is a fictional system with internally consistent rules. If you're gonna suspend disbelief for a portal that warps space, but then scream "muh physics" at the way momentum transfers, what are we even doing here? Either accept the weird door rule logic, or go back to simulating springs in Unity.
>>720781974The inertia of the front half of the rocket would exert a slight tug on the back half, increasing its speed ever so slightly. People on board might feel a slight shock. It actually wouldn't be stationary relative to the portal unless it braked a little. But if it did, and maintained speed, the people on board would experience nothing more out of the ordinary.
>>720781602Yes.Its a hole, one where each entrance does not need to be spatially continuous, but travel through them is instantaneous.So if one side of that hole is moving away at 999 m/s.And the rocket is moving at 1000 m/s.Then you agree that the rocket would enter the moving end of the hole at 1 m/s?However, you are arguing that it would exit the stationary hole at 1000 m/s?Why do you think that?Even if part of the rocket is through the portal, the rest of the rocket is still struggling to catch up to the moving portal.
>>720782297>However, you are arguing that it would exit the stationary hole at 1000 m/s?I'm not, I'm arguing with the guy who thinks that.
>>720777614That's easy, a "hoop" does not do that.
>>720781301>Describe how portals workportal magic
>this perplexes and mindfucks the Afag
>>720784852you mean Btard
here is the big question(assuming it's really really fast)
>>720779212What force accelerates the rocket from 1ms to 1000ms?
>>720787240The cube would originally be still to the table, but suddenly has the bottom pulled out from under it, which causes it to fall into the portal due to gravity. It would exit the piston side close to the speed of REALLY REALLY FAST and would continue to accelerate downwards (though that would look like it would be slowing down first to someone on the ground on the piston side)
>>720787240it's still Atake a cup, put it over a balllift the cup really fast???????
>>720751120the problem with this is the rocket still has massive amounts of energy and force placed onto it that an object normally moving 1 m/s wouldn't. it has two different sources of gravity acting on it at different strengths.
>>720753804
>>720787240The cube isn't bound to the piston, so it just falls because the piston is no longer supporting it.It falls through the blue portal under the force of gravity (9.8m/s^2) and continues accelerating at that same rate after it falls out of the orange portal.There's no wackiness with relativity because the moving portal is moving away from the cube, the cube's frame of reference doesn't change and is shared with the observer in this case (both are being accelerated by Earth's gravity).
Relative speed is an illusion. Illusions do not have energy. True speed exists and is not an illusion. True speed has energy.
>>720787240this is even less ambiguous than the originalit falls under gravitational acceleration
>>720788402>the rocket still has massive amounts of energy and force placed onto it that an object normally moving 1 m/s wouldn'tThere's no force acting on it, it's moving at a constant speed, not accelerating.An object's momentum is dependent on its velocity and is therefore dependent on its frame of reference. You would measure yourself to be at rest and therefore have negligible momentum, while an observer could measure your movement across Earth's rotating surface and determine you have substantial momentum. Both measurements are correct.>it has two different sources of gravity acting on it at different strengths.I'm not sure where you're reading that gravity is part of the problem at all, or that the force of gravity is different on either side of the portal.>>720788936
>>720788936>True speed existsin which frame of reference?
>>720791278The infinite fabric of spacetime itself. The moment light crosses through a portal it would instantly reach the speed of causality regardless of the relative velocity of the portals.
>>720791809what is the true speed of an object moving in a region of spacetime expanding faster than c while light enters a portal on its front and emerges from a portal on its back?
>>720792864That expansion being faster than c is either impossible or an illusion. Space can only expand at c. It does not matter if expansion is happening in all directions because it's still happening at c. you ask what the relative "speed" is but it's an illusion. light will always exit at the same speed.
It's always been A
>>720744836FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IN AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION. IF THE BLOCK IS STATIONARY AS THE PORTAL COVERS THE FUCKING BLOCK, THE BLOCK WILL NOT SUDDENLY BE FLYING THROUGH THE FUCKING AIR, IT WILL JUST APPEAR IN THE LOCATION AS THE PORTAL IS LOWERED. YOU 3RD WORLDERS ARE BRAINDEAD NIGGERS. STOP POSTING THIS SHIT LIKE ITS SOLVING SPACE TIME 4TH DIMESNION SHIT.
>>720793213>Space can only expand at cIf this were true the universe as we know it would not exist
>>720788602delete this
>>720793319Why do Afags overcomplicated things? The cube comes out just as fast as it enters the portal
>>720793534It could, did, and does.Space can expand in all directions at c. Saying that "WHOA IT TECHNICALLY EXPANDS FASTER IF YOU MEASURE THE WIDTH INSTEAD OF JUST THE DIRECTION OF EXPANSION" does not make it less true because the expansion still happens at c.Relative speed is factually an illusion. The way we measure speed on earth is relative to our true speed through the universe. We can do this because of energy being enacted upon us.The expansion, or contraction, of space will always be at c.
>>720793861>The cube comes out just as fast as it entersyep, at 0 MpH, because cube is stationary
>>720795405stationary relative to what?
>>720795501>relative to what?relative to space
>>720793319What force is changing the position of the cube?
>>720795501the platform it's on
>>720795886gravity
>>720795886the cube doesnt change position
>>720793319Portals already violate conservation of energyNot an argument
>>720744836It's A because of momentum conservation and inertia.
>>720795992Portals are powered by a miniature black hole from a black hole generator.
>>720776484>>720777143>It's another Afags swap A and B because they don't even understand what B means episode
>>720777369Well fucking your own ass wouldn't be possible because when you thrust your ass also moves forward. I guess you could attach the portal to something you can move and use it as essentially a fleshlight, but I wouldn't consider that fucking because you're not thrusting. BTW, doing it like that would prove it's B.
>>720744836Can Bfags explain how there is somehow a transfer of kinetic energy from the platform that Portal A is attached to and the cube that makes no contact with it?
>>720797498There isn't.
>>720797498It is not a transfer of kinetic energy, it just goes to existing in a new universe that moves around itIt is possible to feel like you're still but have things around you move at vastly different speeds, it's what everyone calls inertial frames of reference and most easily achieved by going into freefall or space
>>720797498It comes from the same place the energy comes from when you put a portal on the ceiling above a portal on the floor and jump through it
>>720744836if a portal is just spacetime wrapping, why wouldn't the object maintain momentum?gravity is supposedly spacetime distortion right?imagine a completely stationary object on space, distant enough from other objects to consider gravity from other sources to be negligiblea massive asteroid passes close by. the previously stationary object now starts a slow movement. the asteroid eventually goes far away for its gravity to also become negligible. would you expect the object to suddenly stop drifting in space?in short: why gaining momentum from gravity (spacetime distortion) makes sense to you but gaining momentum from a wormhole/portal (spacetime distortion) doesn't?would be nice if an Afag could explain this
Moon scene (canon) only works with B. No amount of sophistry can change that.
>>720798425The game is fiction. We're talking about how portals would really work. The developers simply got it wrong.
>>720798614>The developers simply got it wrong.They came up with the concept, they set up the rules, they programmed it. You can't get your own idea "wrong". You just think they should have done it differently because you imagine your version is ineffably better.
>>720798707What? Obviously you can fail to correctly reason through the consequences of your own rules.
>>720744836>destroys bfags argueament
>>720793319Utterly wrong. If we're talking about portals from the game Portal, then a stationary object wouldn't have been able to pass through them. This is the behaviour observed in the game engine. You're not talking about portals. You're making shit up and pretending it's canon.
>>720798828How the game engine handles a scenario that doesn't occur in the games is irrelevant.
>>720798804They're made up rules with no pre-existing framework. Nor do they reflect real life physics. Any outcome is logical as any other. They just settled on this one, and you're upset because you don't like it.
>>720797498You seem to have no issue with portals giving objects potential energy without touching them. Also, even stationary portals can give kinetic energy to an object by changing its direction, which results in motion from nothing for some observers.
>>720798958>canonical source doesn't matter>but muh iMaGiNeD scenario does!!!!!!111
>>720778108>portals have items going through it maintain momentumThey provably do not.
>>720744836>indie games = cpu forward engine thinking>AAA games = gpu forward engine thinkingIt's effectively been this way since dwarf fortress came out
>>720776753Going through portals is generally seamless, and you are suggesting that the front of the rocket would violently pull the rear. And, going by A's general incredulity towards generation of forces in portals, what force would cause that violent pull?>>720777385"once the entire rocket has passed through?". Where does the rocket end? Do you mean the last tip of the fins? How does it affect the nose of the rocket? If the nose is traveling at 1m/s after it leaves the blue portal, how and why does it suddenly shoot up to 1000m/s when the last fin tip gets out?Also, since you're both Afags (or pretend to be), which of these contradicting responses am I supposed to take as the A answer? B is fairly consistent, but I still don't know what the A answer to this case is.This is the exact same problem as the original, just with different numerical values. A must provide an immediate answer if it is a solid theory.
>>720798968>Any outcome is logical as any other.This is like a 90 IQ thought at best
>>720798974>for some observersThere is only one "observer" in Portal. There is only one point from which calculations are made.
>>720751120You should make the velocities .99c for more fun
>>720771731150mph upwards50mph relative to the portal>>720771851AWe see in game that portals have an orientation
>>7207992291) No counter-argument?2) The sheer fucking fact that these threads exist and have traction proves there are at the very least 2 logically sound-seeming outcomes to the same scenario.3) I fucked you're mom
>>720799009A game is a facsimile of an imagined world. If you clip out of bounds is it then "canon" that the terrain is a paper-thin skin painted on one side, and that the entire universe beyond the level is an empty void? Of course not, that would be absurd. It's similarly absurd to use the game engine's handling of a scenario which isn't part of the game as a source of truth about the game world, as there's no reason to program correct behavior beyond what is needed for the game.
>>720787240From the orange portal side it effectively jumps up with the orange portal at the speed of the piston, and falls with gravitational acceleration (you can see it falling naturally from the blue side). It looks the exact same as if the lower platform went down instead, except the set is moving up with the platform stationary.Imagine the orange portal initially has it grabbed for a single frame but then it lets go. The cube would be moving up with the full speed of the portal and falling in a natural jump, all while the cube on the blue portal simply falls naturally through it.
>>720799454>If you clip out of bounds>is it then "canon" It's not intended behavior, so no. What a silly question.
>>720799573>It's not intended behaviorNeither is this>>720748928
>>720799618Of course not. Yet it's the closest we have to an objectively correct answer. Definitely closer than "but I imagined it like this instead!!! #1" and "you're dumb, I imagined it betterer!!! #2".
>>720751120Any matter that crosses the planck length threshold of the portal will be moving at 1000m/s but because the rocket is entering slower than its velocity it will be disassembled atomically and spread out
>>720773271>stays slow after crossingWhy wouldn't it accelerate, you can see the thruster is still pushing it at the force required for 1km/s
>>720799728>threshold of the portalportals aren't doors, they're holes
>>720759901Lol last time i was i this thread i was btfoing btards who were applying classical definitions of distance to relativistic mechanics ie wormholes. The b stands for Brainlet
>>720776885>there's no relative speedthanks for invalidating 500 years of kinematics
>>720799826Yes which is why i said planck length you fucking moron
>>720777768Fuck off c fag
>>720799916there's no need to be rude. you misunderstood something, I corrected you. portals have no threshold, there is no this side or other side, the space inside is as continuous as it would have been in the absence of a portal.
>>720800009No you misunderstood me. You can stand halfway through a portal tits cross ass doesnt ergo threshold. Space isnt continuous its quantized hence planck. I will grant you i worded it poorly.
Let's try something simpler>treadmill going left at 100m/s>car driving right at 101m/s (according to its internal speedometer which has been calibrated to perfect accuracy)Question: what happens when it reaches the end? Bonus question: if you add wings to the car, does it achieve flight while still on the treadmill?
>>720799714>there have probably been Portal devs furiously Afagging in these threadslmao
>>720799098They provably do. Play the game.
>>720799098why did you switch the letters?
>>720798425>canonically the wrong distance to the be real moon>canonically the wrong size to be the real moon>canonically not in space because Chell survived and stayed conscious for close to 30 seconds there instead of dying in less than 10It's an underground fake moon (canon). You never leave earth in the game.
>>720800009>the space inside is as continuous as it would have been in the absence of a portal.Wrong.
>>720777031I wonder if you are same Aquafag from SKG threads
>>720777143>using Ork tech as argument
>>720777369Masturbation is gay.
>>720799149> If the nose is traveling at 1m/s after it leaves the blue portal, how and why does it suddenly shoot up to 1000m/s when the last fin tip gets out?If that is not the case then the rocket simply tears itself apart.The half that is through the output portal is progressing through space at 1000 m/s normally while the other half is feeding into the moving input portal at 1 m/s.The glaring discrepancy in distance crossed over time between the two sides of portal cannot be reconciled without destroying or dramatically deforming the rocket.
>>720800250Cars cannot drive right.Cars drive forward or backwards.
>>720800428>>720800456Momentum is a vector. Changing direction is changing momentum. Portal flings are thus an example of portals changing momentum and thus disprove A and prove B. If portals did not change momentum (A logic), you would keep falling towards the floor after exiting the portal on the wall when doing a fling and get cut in half on the edge of thw portal, which would lead to A in the picture. If portals change momentum (B logic) portal flings work as seen in the game and B in the picture.
>>720781050Why are you talking about puzzle games? This is a portal paradox thread.
>>720802569Exactly the opposite. The half that is through the output travelling at 1m/s means that there are no internal forces within the rocket. If it was travelling at 1000m/s the rocket would tear apart.1 metre of rocket enters the portal every second, and 1 metre of rocket exits the portal every second
>>720759901>explain how something can change position over time without it being "true" movementWe’re talking about portals here.Can a turtle go 1,000,000 miles a second because it crossed a portal which ends are 1,000,000 miles away?Portals break the rules of movement inherently because they’re shortcuts between distances and 4D constructions.
>>720803279>a portal which ends are 1,000,000 miles awayThe ends are always 0 miles away from each other.
>>720802569Then, in order not to destroy the rocket/cube, you are requiring the portal to act intelligently and specifically to the shape of the rocket, to treat it with care until the last part goes through, and then exert a force to push the rocket, or to stop the box, rather than work in a systematic manner no matter what goes through it.Or alternatively you are admitting that strong internal forces appear in the rocket/cube if A is true. Were do those forces come from? I thought portals were like hula hoops simply and seamlessly connecting two points in space.The A theory may seem intuitive, but runs into lots of problem that become more apparent simply by looking it up close or changing the numbers in the parameters of the problem.B works consistently on all variants, like a solid theory should, and it doesn't cause internal forces in the object in cases of portals moving at constant speed, only when a portal stops or accelerates mid way.
>>720803279We're not talking about the distance between the entry and the exit portal.We're talking about the distance between the exit portal, and 1 metre away from the exit portal. See how the front face of the cube in picrel can be measured as changing position over time (moving).
>>720803356So you agree it’s A then?
>>720803523No, why would I?
>>720803279We are not talking about the 1,000,000 miles movements. We are tallking about the shaking, or in the sample problem the ~50cm movement that happens when the cube exits the portal.
>>720744836I still don't understand why anons are trying to apply IRL physics to this when they must think in the way Source handles physics.
Not sure if this is proof B is wrong, that portals are impossible or that spaghettification would make portals insanely dangerous.I guess there's always the possibility that portals would have to be relativistic somehow.
>>720803708Because "what would happen in engine" is a boring question which was solved ages ago.The question is either "what would happen if portals were real" or "what would happen in canon"
>>720802569Afriends truly have a Wile E. Coyote understanding of physics, jfc
>>720803816The lower part of the building is also moving 20 m/s relative to the blue portal.
>>720803816measured through the blue portal, the whole building is moving at 20m/s
>>720803868>The question is either "what would happen if portals were real" or "what would happen in canon"Yeah, look at the entire thread. You're screeching at each other like retarded monkeys.
>>720766009? What are you trying to say? You still spend energy to move the piston with the portal.
>>720804028I have a confession to make.I've been arguing for both A and B in these threads for years because I'm not certain which is correct.
>>720803816Portals can seamlessly connect a part of an object that moves at 20m/s with a part of that object that moves at 0m/s.Just imagine it in motion and you'll find that's no issue. Visualize it in slow motion, visualize it in regular speed, visualize it with all the masses in motion and their momentums. In your picture, there's a constant stream of building going through the portal. It's A what would cause problems, not B.
>>720804096The thing coming out of the portal has gained energy by being swallowed by a moving portal.
>>720804096Why would the wheel move though?
>>720804130Tell me how you would argue for B then
>>720799714This is all Afags have. A guy who was probably busy, looked at the image for 5 seconds, misunderstood what it was asking and typed up a quick response based on that misunderstanding before getting back to work. Notice how he talks about how gravity will affect the cube. He thought the question was "Will the cube keep flying out and arc down due to gravity or will it keep flying in a straight line unaffected by gravity?". The thought that it would just magically stop and plop out didn't even occur to him. That's just how retarded A is.Meanwhile, another Valve employee who also worked on the Portal games got asked this and actually understood what was being asked, typed up a longer explanation and said it's B.
>>720804096He's saying that the saw that comes from the blue portal has energy, it has power, it has speed, it has momentum. It is moving for all intents and purposes. Same way, the cube in the original problem is effectively moving at speed as it goes out of the portal and thus it would jump like B.
>>720803935At what point will a person inside the building feel the movement?
>>720776885>Afags are genuinely this retarded
>>720804382According to B, never. Only when the movement stopped. Just like you can't feel constant speed movement on an elevator or a train.
>>720804235portal frame relative motion>>720780354
>>720804382Due to the shift in gravity, when they cross the threshold it would feel like they were inside an elevator that was moving upwards, but it's quite a subtle effect.If the portal isn't fast enough to uproot and fling the building when it hits the ground, they'd feel a sudden deceleration at that moment and would probably even fly up and smash against the ceiling. Alternatively the building could fling (and probably crumble while doing so) which they would obviously feel.
>>720804448So if the blue portal suddenly stops halfway, then you get the acceleration in the part of the building that's gone through?Where does the energy for this come from?
>>720804382You don't feel movement. You feel acceleration.
>>720804564If the portal stops halfway, the part which has already gone through would not accelerate, in fact it would decelerate as it pulls against the half which hasn't gone through (and is pulled by that half).If the speed is high enough it would tear off, or rather fracture and crumble at multiple points because it's a building, but the resulting speed would be less than 20m/s.
>>720793319>Portals generate forces either way you slice it, A does not avoid this>Every alternate B scenario works by the same rules, so admitting it works there is admitting it works everywhere>See above>B is consistent on all sides, A isn't; that's the point >They work like this in game too>None of this is relevant to B but none if it prevents B either>I've just explained why
>>720804529Okay, so you do know the right answer
>>720788602See gif in >>720754919
>>720804564>Where does the energy for this come from?It's inertia, it'd need energy to stopIf the Earth suddenly stops now you'd get flung off. "Omg why with what force"
>>720802951>Thus disprove A and prove BYou're just wrong, dude. B logic is that only relative speed matters.A logic is built off of an object's momentum deciding whether it speeds through a portal or not.
>>720793507The moving portal is the action.
>>720804794Now what?
>>720804825He was agreeing with you? DISprove A, PROVE B
>>720796080It's B because of momentum conservation and inertia.
>>720804648They accelerate from 0 to 20m/s in a fraction of a second when the portal passes the floor of the building they're standing on.
>>720804882Rocket comes out at 999m/s to the left (1m/s relative to the portal)
>>720804883He says portal flings support B when it supports A.
>>720804912There is no acceleration (and thus no force). They were always moving relative to the portal.
>>720804924>To the leftThe blue portal is facing the right.
Just throw that shit to an AI and stop pretending you fags know math let alone physics.
>>720744836I think you should unironically die
>>720805004The blue portal is moving at 1000m/s to the left, and the rocket will be moving at 999m/s to the left. Relative to the portal, the rocket is moving at 1m/s to the right.
>>720777892Do you think the portal teleports each atom of the cube to a position relative to it's original position?The portal folds space and links two 3D space coordinates like a folded paper with a hole it in links two 2D space coordinates, it's not a teleporter, you have to move through it or get moved through it by something else.
>>720804912Yes, and if me measure acceleration the same way in the games, Chell would've broken her neck in the first portal fling due to her instant acceleration
>>720804953Oh lolI honestly thought you were showing the illogic of the A argument
>>720804330Afags utterly and permanently BTFO
I'm too retarded to understand what this problem is even about
>>720804564If the portal suddenly stopped, the building would try to keep moving, naturally, and you'd notice it in that it would either break down of stay anchored. That's the whole point of B.A says that the whole building would stop like nothing somehow.Seriously, visualize the whole thing, each storey, each column, each object, in motion, all with their masses in motion, and you will understand B.
>>720805254That's okay, so is everyone on the side of A but unlike you they can't admit it
>>720805159How can it move to the left if it's going right?
>>720804912No. They keep moving at 20 m/s like they were. No acceleration involved. A is the one where they instantly decelerate from 20 m/s to 0 m/s, which they would feel. Luckily for the janitor, it's B or he'd have a very bad day cleaning them off the floor, walls and ceiling.
even chat gpt agrees its B. Why are A fags so delusional? oh well keep posting and replying.
>>720805329The nose is pointing to the right. The rocket is moving to the left.Also have you never seen a retrograde burn? Rockets do that all the time.
>>720788936>>720791809>>720793213>>720794038irrefutable. B fags in shambles.
>>720805329Because the portal is moving left and it's not fast enough to negate the portals velocity and keep moving right.
>>720805416"Irrefutable" in the sense that it's complete nonsense about which nothing can reasonably be said
>>720805437The rocket cannot physically occupy the space on the left of the blue portal.
Bfags still can't refute this
>>720805328Gf literally told me to put the phone down lol
>>720805486>B fags deny the speed of causalityRelative speed is an illusion.
>>720777143Now I get it, the confusion is because A people think that the portal works like a teleporter, instantly placing each atom of the object in another position.Instead portals work like wormholes, they directly connect two different 3D coordinates in space as if they were adjacent to each other.
>>720798409>gravity (spacetime distortion)Wrong assertion with 0 evidence (Einstein worship doesn't count as evidence)
>>720805165Chell is a superhuman who can move FTL and survive in a vacuum though. At least, according to Bfags who use the moon scene to support their argument.So the g-forces of instant acceleration wouldn't hurt her either.
>>720804953How exactly do portal flings support A? They're perfectly consistent with the B claim that entry momentum relative to entry portal = exit momentum relative to exit portal. Meanwhile, they're inconsistent with the A claim that the object entering the portal keeps its momentum relative to the room, as demonstrated in my original picture.
>>720805556If they worked like wormholes they'd still plop because the entrance is irrelevant upon exit.
>>720805342Janitor's going to gave a bad day regardless because the portal has to stop at some point and that has to be the equivalent of an earthquake
>>720805497True, but it's not moving left of the blue portal. It's moving right of the blue portal, which itself is moving left of an external observer, so the rocket is also moving left relative to the external observer.
>>720805584>move FTL? This is a fresh new misunderstanding Also, I think you'll find she does briefly survive in a vacuum in that scene regardless of how you explain it.
>>720805590In game, portal flings happen only when a force acts upon Chell to send her through the portal. The portal itself adds no extra energy or momentum, simply what was gained from gravity.
Problem #2Portal 1 is in AmericaPortal 2 is in India Opposite ends of the earth Portal 1 is moving at 1670km/h in one directionPortal 2 is moving at -1670km/h (other direction) What happens if you walk through it, or shoot something through it?
>>720805584>rgument.>So the g-forces of instant acceleration wouldn't hurt her eitherSo you agree it's B in the game You're not quite right yet but you are getting there
>>720805696Draw what you think would happen.
>>720805784Bfags:>relative velocity in = relative velocity out, so you can seamlessly walk through as if it was a doorwayAfags:>uhhh don't think about it too much... It would just work!
>>720805538Refute what, that he comes out of the portal moving forward and then stops in the air like a video game character? Mario can also jump forward and stop in mid air.
>>720805783>The portal itself adds no extra energy or momentumFalse. The portal changes Chells momentum by changing the direction she's moving.
>>720805851>BThat's A thoughWhy Do you kniggers keep misconstruing A?
>>720805628Do you accept that conservation of momentum is real?How do you move from one 3D coordinate position to another?Moving or being moved through a Portal is the same as moving to any other 3D coordinate as you do in normal day to day life, the only difference is that a portal connects two 3D coordinates that are not adjacent to each other, it's the same as folding a sheet of paper and putting a hole through it connecting two 2D points on the paper that weren't connected previously.
>>720805834As you can see, the rocket is facing right but moving left.
bfags actually believe this
>>720805896The portal moved towards him and he didn't fucking shoot out like B niggers think the cube should
>>720805742>Chell can fire the portal gun to the other side of a small room, then step through an existing portal before the new one reaches the opposite wall and opens>the portal gun projectile reaches the moon in the span of a couple secondsEither the projectile flew 400,000km at lightspeed and Chell is FTL, or the "moon" is only a few kilometres away at most.
>>720805896You mean he does a buttslam like Mario?
>>720805907It doesn't change the direction. It's a set path. If it added energy, the moment you put two portals down facing anything but perfectly opposite directions anything going through would be flung at incredible speeds thanks to the energies hurdling everything on Earth through space.
>>720805963It's literally B tho lmaoAnother one intuitively chooses B when it's not the original scenario Erry tiem
>>720805997Afags actually believe this
>>720806024The portal gun projectile... isn't... Chell.Wtf are you in about lmaoAlso, the dev comments reveal they actually did consider making the player wait a realistic amount of time but they decided it broke the flow
>>720806054The cube isn't moving in the original problem you kike nigger faggot jeet tranny kill yourself Chris chan barry kris Eric listfag subhuman reject
>>720805986>it's the same as folding a sheet of paper and putting a hole through it connecting two 2D points on the paper that weren't connected previously.And you don't see anything being flung out immediately when you do that.
>>720804756the problem is that I'm not entirely convinced that portals behave that way, it's just the simplest answer
>>720806036>It doesn't change the direction.It objectively does - unless seen through the portal. Consistent through the portal, inconsistent to the environment. That's B and the opposite of A.
>>720806036>If it added energy, the moment you put two portals down facing anything but perfectly opposite directions anything going through would be flung at incredible speeds thanks to the energies hurdling everything on Earth through space.That's actually A though be it"Objective momentum"
>>720806036See >>720799098. The stick guy is moving down before entering the portal and left after exiting it. What do you call that except changing direction?>If it added energy, the moment you put two portals down facing anything but perfectly opposite directions anything going through would be flung at incredible speeds thanks to the energies hurdling everything on Earth through spaceFalse. It would do that according to Afags, but B logic is just relative velocity in = relative velocity out, which means that nothing is being flung through at incredible speeds because nothing is entering at incredible speeds.
>>720806042It's not. Relative speed is an illusion. Light and gravity prove that.
>>720806178How do you get an object from coordinate A to coordinate B without motion?Is the portal a teleporter?
>>720806208No, it objectively doesn't. A mobius strip of spacetime is a straight line.
>>720806149It is though.
>>720806184It's the simplest, and only consistent one. Logically it can't be anything else. It works like that or ot doesn't work at all. The alternative to B isn't A, it's that portals can't exist.
>>720806258If it were B, relative velocity would add speed. In game, A is supported because portals add no extra energy and thus no momentum.
Afags are people who can't visualize the apple so they can't conceptualize how basic physics rules interact with 3D coordinates that are connected without being visually adjacent to each other.
>>720806305>No, it objectively doesn't.Yes, it does, in the most basic undeniable sense. You were going down, and then you were going up. Only looking through the portal is the motion continuous. Just like in B. You don't seem to be aware but you're treating portals in the game differently from moving portals for the purpose of this problem.
>>720799098>>720806359Why would it add speed? Relative velocity is conserved. B works perfectly.
>>720806359Exactly, A's the answer if we were using video game logic. If vidya followed IRL logic, then the universe would be destroyed everytime someone used a time stop power-up.
>>720806143>The portal gun projectile... isn't... Chell.>Wtf are you in about lmaoStand next to a door. Turn on a flashlight and then walk backwards through the door before the light reaches the opposite wall of the room. Chell can do it.Alternatively, the portal gun shots don't travel at lightspeed.>Also, the dev comments reveal they actually did consider making the player wait a realistic amount of time but they decided it broke the flowSo instead of rewriting the scene to move firing the portal gun to earlier and then filling the time for tension, they brought the moon closer all the way to inside the underground facility.
>>720806020Animate in detail a side view of what you think happened: the character; the portals; the environment. Or, if you can't animate, draw a detailed sequence of that side view. Or just visualize a side view of what you think happened.You'll find cracks in what you think you saw.
Afags answer this, do you think the portal works like a teleporter?If not how do you get an object from point A to point B without motion?
>>720807070If they could answer that question, they'd be Bfags.
>>720807070>without motionmotion of what? the moving portal moves the world around the object
>>720807165There are a million variations of this picture because it's eternally relevant.>motion of what? the moving portal moves the world around the objectIs the guy moving? Is the spike moving?Are neither moving? Then how does the spike penetrate his skull?
>>720800645>>720806024>>720806756Afags will literally argue that Aperture carved out a massive void underground and built a replica of the moon inside before admitting that the game simplified the moon scene for dramatic effect, because they're that afraid of being proven wrong. Good job Bros. Keep up the pressure. They're desperate.
>>720807165So, if you are in the world (duh), you get shaken and moved around when a portal moves, even if it doesn't appear to interact with you?
>>720807165>the moving portal moves the world around the objectCorrect. Which is the same as the object moving through the world. I'm GLaD we can finally agree it's B, because it'd be stupid for a moving object to just stop, right?
>>720807617Why does the world stop with zero inertia when the portal stops? Why wouldn't the object?
>>720806756>Chell can do it.You're still confused. She goes through the portal, like normal. It's the portal gun projectile that moves faster than light. Chell never does. >Alternatively, the portal gun shots don't travel at lightspeed.But you're not arguing they do. You're arguing Chell does, somehow.
>>720807946Because portals don't exert forces on the world bruv. In fact they don't impart forces on the cube either. They translate motion from one frame of reference to another without acceleration. Point is just that that motion is necessarily seen in relation to the portal.
>>720807165What you are saying is that instead of simply connecting two 3D coordinates in space, the portal swaps the positions in the coordinate system itself, it changes the position of space itself.In that case the moving end is somehow packing a N + movement amount of space into the other static end 1N sized area, the object should end up crunched up on the exit end, if you say it's constantly swapping space around then the object would end up sliced up as parts of space are going back and forth with the portal's movement.
>>720807498Not only that but they also somehow made it a vacuum even though there is an unobstructed path between it and the place Chell was before, and looking down in it you also see an illusory Earth as if you were in orbit which obscures your view of the bottom of the massive cave you never actually leftThis is certainly a possibility that definitely doesn't raise a bunch of issues if you think about it for five seconds
>>720744836Something something an object at rest stays at rest something something.
>>720752595>it's inherent speed>it is inherent speedpost discarded
>>720811779At rest relative to what?
>>720798614>We're talking about how portals would really workThen this is the wrong board for the discussion. Discussing how portals world in game canon would be what makes it vidya-related.Because even if we're going by how portals realistically work it wouldn't be A. The reason A gets so much pushback is people understand it's not remotely logically consistent.
>>720798809>argueament
>>720745889its Athis is actualy above 120 iq physic shit
>>720777589>>720777709How about this? Could it resume its speed and zoom back through the portal?
>>720813246I like the drawings but the message couldn't be less clearkeep it simple stupid
>>720751120this have nothing to do with op pic because the cube velocity is 0 youpush the entire portal aka:(ENTIRE UNIVERSE) at the object that have 0 velocity and it is transported into this universe on touchdown AT 0 VELOCITY the second its transported into same"other reality" the gravitational forces of the second reality counter the ones from the first perfectly as it is litterary the same meaning it looks like it from the perspective of blue portal that yelow is closing but remember, the laws of physics of inside of those "2" same opposite realities do not INTTERACT witch each other, what i described ealier is cube interaction witchin them
>>720813391I've got 9 of these in my collection, it's funny how everyone draws it at some point.
>>720813572>Watch an A-tard re-define movement for the 10000th time today"You don't get it it's exiting the portal but not actually moving it's just translating itself through space from an other reality at zero velocity"Your cube is pushing air out therefore it's moving. Therefore B. Now leave the thread
>>720813391free cube = metal spike that is perpetualy pushed by direct physical mass force from the other dimention
>>720813631Let me give you some more
>>720813631>>720813785>Physical mass forceJust call it movement, you idiot
>>720813708EVERYTHING cancel itself, the air , the sun gravity the eartth gravity you fuckin retard none of you studied physic above colege even in the game gameplay and lore the portal is opposite of the first one
>>720813914You should cancel yourself anon, leave the thread for those of us with a brain
>>720813881>>720813796Profoundly homosexual, but thanks.
>>720813785So what if it was a free spike instead, and you put your face directly in front of the portal. What would happen?
>>720814087You're welcome anon
>>720814047If you dipshits had a brain you would understand how retarded you Brainless morons are
>>720814173That's alright, just walk out of your room without moving. Just displace the entirety of the universe around you while you do so. You'll be at rest.
I love how the A argument ends up being that portals don't act on objects which pass through them, but instead act on the entire rest of the universe. Literally the only thing which isn't moving is the cube.
>>720813796>>720813881>>720814087>>720814156Are we at the point of thread where betards fabricate scenarios with a faulty understanding of afags logic as some form of proof?
>>720815184Feel free to explain how the stationary knife would stab this stationary guy without moving.
>>720815184Can someone conclusively and unequivocally define the A logic at some point? It's been over 15 years now.
>>720815184>fabricate scenarios with a faulty understandingWe've already had hula hoop posts in the thread already anon. But where as it gets explained many times why those don't work >>720776775 >>720777205You don't actually have an explanation how two objects can collide without creating a force.
It's A. It can only ever be A.If ever it was B, Cave Johnson would get his scientists to invent a gun, then threaten them with a gun until they made it A, so it's A.
A makes complete sense when you realize portals aren't real and cannot be real. There is no logical incongruence. A is completely correct in a universe where portals exist, which is not and cannot ever be our own.B midwits cap out at ~120 IQ.
>>720815965I've had this conversation before. The Afag wasn't able to understand what was meant by defining their logic.The problem is the only actual answer they have is "Momentum is conserved by the portal", which isn't actually true. And the only argument they have to defend it is "but that's what I was told in the dialogue" and struggle when asked to actually look at what the portal does and look up what momentum actually is.
>>720816538>There is no logical incongruence.velocity relative to the entrance on entering = velocity relative to the exit on exitingWe've had a logic for how this works which has never been contradicted. The problem is Afags don't actually understand what it means.
>>720816598Plop and knife stab are simultaneously correct. There is no contradiction.
>be observer looking into the exit portal>piston begins to lower>you see a cube shooting up to you at high speed (because movement is relative)>yet the cube sitting on the platform does not suddenly launch itself into the air into the entrance portalWhy is this?
>>720816706>>720816538It has been proven time and time again that Afags actually occupy an universe where relativity of motion does not apply so I can believe that.
>>720816721Did you mean to respond to >>720816069?If the knife stabs then that means there's a force created purely from the portal going over the object. Which is the very thing Afags attempt to argue isn't happening.
>>720808695She can take a step before a lightspeed projectile travels to the other side of a small room, she can also physically witness it flying.These are Flash-tier bullshit feats.
>>720816949It happens until it doesn't. Portal universe is not our own. It has it own set of laws. A is unequivocally correct. It's so simple.
>>720816117Funnily enough, that's also how you would approach it as a programmer making a physics engine. First get B to happen consistently, then make the cube stop suddenly after passing through.
>>720816538This same argument also works for B though
>>720817084What are you basing these assertions on?
>>720817260In order to make B true, you will have to invent a portal gun. That's the only way it will ever be B.
>>720816794You've already answered your own question. You've already described all the motion, no need to add the motion doubly on top of that as if your observation somehow directly influences the cube
>>720817038Anon, you're talking bullshit. The game takes place in real time.
>>720816949but the knife isn't moving
>>720817326Portal takes place in a universe where they did that and hence where B is true, glad we agree
>>720776484
>>720817326What question are you answering?
>>720817464well, that settles it
>>720817464fucking lol
>Portal is moved onto the cubeThe universe is dragged over to the cube via the portal. The cube does not move.>Cube is moved into the portalThe cube is pushed into a new position in the universe and continues moving from the inertia of the push.
>>720752557>the cube exits the portal without movingok
>>720817260His arse.
>>720814270>delusional bfag example yet againforgetting the part where the observer (the object moving through the portal) has momentum already
>>720817756Movement is relative. Portals also don't "drag" the universe.
>>720817756What happens if the first room is spinning?
>>720817864>the observer (the object moving through the portal)How do you fuck up even something so basic
>>720817756>The universe is dragged over to the cube via the portal.What makes the universe stop? How much energy is required for this deceleration?
>>720817943>What makes the universe stop?The portal stops moving.>How much energy is required for this deceleration?This is why portals do not exist in reality, and probably never will.
>>720817396>You don't actually have an explanation how two objects can collide without creating a force.
>>720818047>The portal stops moving.What does that have to do with anything? How is a portal capable of affecting objects on the other side?
>>720818047Gotta love the A cope where portals move everything in the entire universe except the cube. What makes the cube special?
>>720815965>A>logic
Cube has no momentum, it doesn't receive momentum from anywhere.It's always A anyone who even thinks B is even remotely plausible should be penned up with the rest of the sub 50 IQ niggers.
>>720816538If portals existed, it would be B.
>>720818126portal doesn't move the universe, it's a fucking door retard
>>720806454Btards*
A.
>>720818261And people get flung through doors all the timeAnswer is B
>>720818189Momentum is not an inherent property of things, it exists in relation to something else. The cube necessarily has momentum coming out of the portal.
>>720818261That's what I was saying. It's B.
>>720818261>it's a fucking doorNo it isn't.
why are Btards so dumb?
bfags say:>this object that inherently breaks most of the laws of physics actually obeys all the laws of physicsafags respond:>it's not even an object, it's a hole in space, have you even played the fucking game?
>>720818405It does not have momentum, the cube is clearly inert. >>720818503American education.
Okay, faggots. What would happen if you squeeze one portal through the other portal?
>>720816069The entrance portal isn't imparting force on the objects moving through it, the exit portal is imparting force on everything being displaced by the object.
Just wanted to drop in here and say fuck you janitors for temporarily banning me a few days ago for posting an interesting twist to this discussion but letting this piece of shit no good thread survive for this long
>>720818108>how is MAGIC SPACE HOLE capable of affecting objects on the other side?An invisible wizard with one of those claw grabbers is throwing them.
>>720818585Scenario C happens
>>720818503Can I ask you again what you even think this shows? It's the same thing rotated, surely that changes everything! The baffling hubris is even more staggering than with the fucking hula hoops.
>>720818513Actually bfags say>Portals only break physics in precisely those ways shown in the game and nothing moreafags respond>Well u dont know man its not real anything could happen mannn but not b tho
>>720818675A again (obviously)>>720818697Btards aren't smart and are thrown off by the diagonal portals
>>720818490It literally is a quantum door, it does not move the universe, it's just one space connected to the other like a door connecting two rooms. Nothing more, it does not apply magic momentum to anything, like the game literally says, speedy things goes in speedy things comes out, meaning something needs to have initial momentum going in to have momentum coming out.
>>720818585
>>720818557>It does not have momentum, the cube is clearly inert.Clearly not. It comes out of the portal.
>>720818648You're coping, you realise?
>>720818792No, seriously, what the fuck do you think the diagonals have to do with anything? Your understanding of B is actually so poor it's beyond fathoming to someone who gets it. Your criticism so off the mark you may as well be asking why we haven't taken unicorns unto account.
>>720818790>precisely those ways shown in the game and nothing moreIt has never been shown to work that way in the games a single time you stupid fuck
>>720818858btard logic everyone
>>720819031seething Btard mad as fuck that his flying box looks ridiculous when done sideways
>>720818827Momentum =/= speed
>>720819091more btard logic
>>720819036You're not thinking with portals
>>720805329How the fuck do you think it should be able to exit the portal at any other speed other than the speed it's entering the other portal at? You are literally just failing to comprehend that the speed and direction depends entirely on where you measure it from.
>>720819158You're not thinking at all
>>720819064Even for an atard you're a special kind of stupid. A blind man in a land of one-eyed men.
>>720819231>the speed it's entering the other portalThe cube doesn't enter the portalThe portal covers the cube
>>720819039>>720819129AKA logic
>>720819365>The cube doesn't enter the portalnext time just start with this argument outright, make sure you're the first response too, see how that goes
>>720819242I've internalised portal physics to the point where it requires no thought at all, yes, I can tell you the answer to any permutation of portals and cubes intuitively
>>720818596Apply what you've just said to the individual matter of an exiting cube. If every bit of matter is stationary on exit, then that means the next bit of matter is "being displaced", which you've just described as imparting a force.
>>720818513bfags say:>relative velocity in = relative velocity outafags respond:>bfags say:>this object that inherently breaks most of the laws of physics actually obeys all the laws of physics
I'm going to miss these threads when I'm dead.
>pass a ring over my arm>my arm doesnt get yanked forward:O
>>720818609I'm curious. I sympathise as well because I made one little joke about a currently sensitive topic and the mods immediately came down on that despite leaving up a whole off topic thread
>>720820236>afag reinventing hula hoops againSurely this time the same refutation won't apply
These threads taught me that there are people who simply do not respond well to rational argument, but will instead treat everything as a battle of feelings to protect their ego.Then the past decade taught me they vote.
>>720820459There's no refutation to the hula hoop.Bfags are eternally blown the fuck out everytime they pass through a door and don't catapult forward the second they go through the treshhold.
>>720820601Noooo it must be Baccording to physics a portal passing over my dick would rip it off based on the speed of the portal!!
Finally. We can all agree with 100% certainty that Btards are fucking retarded./Thread
>>720820219But there threads won't miss you.
>>720820851>There's no refutation to the hula hoopThe basic refutation is that hula hoops don't have one side moving and the other not. The addendum is that applying B to a hula hoop gets you... a regular hula hoop.
>>720821084You haven't provided a single argument for it though. Isn't there any curious part of your brain that realises, hang on, there's something you're not getting, what if you honestly look into it instead of dismissing everything you don't immediately grasp as dumb?
>>720816117This is quite literally the only argument for A I have ever heard that makes sense.
