Trial and error combat is poor game design. The player should be able to rely on their innate skill, and if good enough, be able to clear any boss first try. Trial and error boss design goes against this principle by forcing you to bash your head into a wall until you learn every microanimation of the bosses expansive moveset and how to punish each one accordingly.It's a sheer test of endurance. Not skill. And it isn't fun.
ER, SS, and PO are not trial and error idk about bottom left i dont play tranime AGP simulators
>>720752762agreed, the previous examples were DKC Returns + TF
>>720752976ER and PO are totally what OP is saying
>>720752762post your winnings in competitive fighting games and rts
What's the point of a game that you can just innately beatJust watch a movie at that point, less pointless button pressing
>>720753258No, people are just struggling to admit that their losses are their own fault and inventing convoluted ways to blame the games for them.
>>720753436>until you learn every microanimation of the bosses expansive moveset and how to punish each one accordinglythats exactly what these games are. almost nothing thats intuitive, realistic or fun.mario games are better designed, thats all.
>>720753403Because winning is fun. Progress is fun. Getting roadblocked for hours and forced to memorize an entire bosses massive moveset each and every time slows that progress to a screeching halt.
>>720752762Just react, bro. It's not that hard
>>720752762If you can beat a challenge in your first try, then it's not a challenge. That means there's nothing to be learned
>>720753734>Because winning is funWhat is the point of winning something you can't lose
>>720752762>innate skillIf you beat things on the first try you aren't learning anything and no one is "innately skilled". The natural state of man is to be as cattle. Only with focused effort can we rise above it.
sounds like PS5 games are more your speed, OP
OP sounds like the kind of guy that throws the controller when he gets hit with a blue shell in Mario kart.
>>720752762Punch Out!! is fine because it doesn't take that long to learn a fight. The problem isn't trial-and-error gameplay. The problem is long runbacks (of any kind). If the actually difficult or frustrating part of any game is locked behind a long, slow, boring part of the game, it becomes miserable.I remember quitting Ace Combat 3 on the last mission because there was a big long dogfight at the start of the mission followed by a tunnel run where you'd die if you touched any wall at all. That was fucking awful.
This is prime bait, but I'll bite>>720752762>The player should be able to rely on their innate skill, and if good enough, be able to clear any boss first tryDo Soulsfags really? Imagine having such a terminal case of main character syndrome that you think you can breeze your way through everything without having to practice or undergo a "trial and error" phase, as you put it.The only "people" who think this way are unironically losers so disconnected from reality that they never lifted a finger in their whole lives trying to learn any skill or hobby. Because if they think they can get away being "good" at video games, which is arguably a low if not the lowest common denominator hobby/interest, imagine how little effort they actually put elsewhere.
>>720752762>Run in and start spamming attack>Get hit with the boss' move because you are playing like a caveman>Call it trial and errorJust fucking slow down, spend thirty seconds seeing what they do before trying to merk them, and if you have decent reactions the entire fight will be execution based. I have yet to die to a boss in SS because I didn't know what they did, which is what trial and error is.
>>720754878Endurance is part of the challenge.I lost track of how many losers gave up on Ballos because they had to run through Hell again for a rematch.
Meanwhile in Chinese game FOTM>Some moves cause knockdown>Pressing dodge starts a early attempt to get up>You can only dodge out of the partial stand up animation, and enemies are setup to stunlock you>Some Bosses will kill you at 100% health if they land a knockdown >Also all bosses has super janky tracking, meaning ice sliding in fucking circles on some of their attacks >You also get super janky tracking ,meaning a lot of punish windows for your charged R2 do not exist, on top of the risk that blindside is still in the enemies ice slide tracking >Marital art hits eats your input buffer, and are often only a combo string instead of being telegraphed >Give several bosses multi hit projectile shotgun attacks, but they also damage you before they spawn in >Decided it was a good idea to have bosses be able to dodge across the entire room>Some trash mobs counter everything but the axe, but the axe ignores their hyper armor
>>720752762Elden Ring is not trial and error if you use a shield>but shields are for pussies!Every class except ER Wretch in all the Miyazaki Souls games start you with a shield, so it's intended that you circumvent the trial-and-error aspect with themHere's a pic and reddit spacing so you'll read my post
>>720755639You don't even know how to do Reddit spacing
Imagine how retarded someone has to be to get filtered by touhou
>>720752762if you want less trial and error gameplay, you should want more friction to get back to bosses - runbacks, entry costs, life systems, unskippable tedious phases, etc.if it's frictionless to get back to the boss it really is just a matter of bruteforcing until you win, whereas friction encourages you to develop your sightreading ability and dodge attacks before you've fully committed how they work to muscle memory
>>720753436>reach a new boss in ER>nigger winds up his attack and just stays like this for 3 seconds>oneshots me because how the fuck am I supposed to know how long the wind up is on my first encounter>go back to the boss and dodge it this time>he follows up with a super long distance charge with barely any animation to it that hits me because how was I supposed to know he can do thatRetard.
>>720752762Elden Ring is open world. I can sit anyone down for Elden Ring and they do well just leave and maybe come back
>>720756701>>oneshots me because how the fuck am I supposed to know how long the wind up is on my first encounterYou're not supposed to, that's why you block it, so that you know it exists without taking damage
