>way better story>way better worldbuilding>way better characters>way more exciting and uplifting fights>way more memorable music>no tools to comically trivialize every and all combat (how the fuck are people disagreeing with this, I have to go out of my way to not use tools just to enjoy the combat more)>isn't cluttered with a bunch of entire fucking areas that feel like a complete waste of time>didn't have a final boss I first timed >has Zote the MightyOh but I guess the movement is worse! Go Silksong! Team Cherry totally didn't ruin the long-awaited sequel by trying to flat out 1:1 replicate Hollow Knight with no will to come up with anything original for a change! Give me my shittier Hallownest and my way shittier Radiance! Why would I want a boss even remotely as cool as the Hollow Knight??? What I'm I fucking crazy? God I must be crazy, silly me guys!
ya my fights gotta be uplifting ya
>>720883706The devs just got too lost in their own ego and kept sniffing their own farts cause of the endless praise people gave them about the first game. They could do no wrong and took zero outside criticism or testing during development and it shows. They clearly never even considered that people could dislike the game cause the hype train puffed up their ego to astronomical levels never seen before for an indie dev besides maybe Toby Fox.
whats betterBosses- silksong music - hollow knightmovement- silksongmap design - hollow knightart direction - silksongvariety- hollow knightdifficulty- silksongstory/characters - hollow knightlength- silksongupgrades - hollow knight
>>720883706I miss the charm system. Yeah the majority of them are shit/gimmick at best but they're given to you as rewards for exploring. I can't be bother with exploring in Silksong when most of the stuff you find are just beads you can farm anywhere.
>no tools to comically trivialize every and all combatWhat are Descending Dark and Abyss Shriek?
>>720884610Not tools that you can endlessly spam without going into melee range once.
>>7208837061>2
>>720884370Bosses- silksongmusic - equalmovement- silksongmap design - hollow knightart direction - equalvariety- hollow knightdifficulty- hollow knight (HK is more difficult, SS is just more annoying)story/characters - don't care, was over the fromsoft style of storytelling a decade agolength- N/A both have fine lengthsupgrades - hollow knight
>>720883706I like how by far the best fight in Silksong is the First Sinner, who's intro and fight patterns are the closest resemblence to Hollow Knight, and it's one of those fights that literally do not matter in terms of the game's progression. So much irony.
I think Silksong paid too much attention to the minutae of game mechanics and lost its focus on art direction and environmental storytelling.The whole of the game is much less holistic than Hollow Knight. This is about what I expected from Scope Creep: The Movie - The Game. It's just not as tight of a game.
>>720883706The buildup and payoff of Hollow Knight's lore was so good. I remember right after beating Path of Pain for the first time and actually felt stunned realizing the King was the reason why his perfect vessel ended up being a failure. Speaking of Path of Pain, there should've been one for Silksong instead of there being like 3 different half assed versions of it I fucking loved it so much. Everyone always talks about how much better Silksong's movement is but there's not a single section in the game that challenges you even half as hard as Path of Pain, like I don't even remember if there's a single section in Silksong where spike pogoing is the only requirement to progress which is insane to me.
>>720883706Something as cool as the Hollow Knight? In my Silksong? Pshhhh yeah ok man. Here's Lace, take it or leave it.
>>720884872>and it's one of those fights that literally do not matter in terms of the game's progression.It's one fight out of three of a potential four that needs to be completed to beat the game.
>>720885169>I don't even remember if there's a single section in Silksong where spike pogoing is the only requirement to progress which is insane to me.There isn't. At best there's whatshername's fight where you have to bounce on her summoned spikes to avoid taking damage.
>>720885561Literally not true but whatever man go fool the 99% of the people in these threads who haven't touched the game.
>>720885561Wrong group of bosses
The Abyss was slightly better in Hollow Knight too.
>>720885169>like I don't even remember if there's a single section in Silksong where spike pogoing is the only requirement to progress which is insane to meI thought I was the only one lol, spike pogoing felt like the main requirement in HK that made you feel like you were actually good at the parkour, no clue why Team Cherry just made it completely optional now.
>>720885753the only thing that SS does better is the movement. everything else is either a step down or roughly equal.
>>720884964No man you're supposed to only focus on the combat why are you so fixated on our boring imitiation of our original game's lore stop doing that man we spent so much hard work these past 8 years giving you guys shit like Crystal Heart but vertical please respect us more.
>>720886013I love how Hornet has her charge up for that vertical ability just like the Crystal Heart's when it's completely unnecessary to do so. Like we get it devs, we know this is the emerald dash thing but vertical this time, we get the reference.
>>720884578does not help that 90% of yellow charms are useless
>>720883706>I have to go out of my way to not use tools just to enjoy the combat moreDo you? Do you have to go out of your way to not press up/down + R1?
>>720884871Hollow knight is not more difficult.
>>720886013The thing is I think Hollow Knight eventually gets to 95% of Silksong's level by it's last DLC when it comes to combat, not nothing Silksong will ever do in the DLC can fix what it's failed to do in the base game.
play Nine Sols if you want a hard but ACTUALLY FAIR metroidvania instead of Silkslop. Nuff said
It makes me wonder why they even bothered to make it a full game when they didn't bother to improve much. Aside from getting more money, obviously.
Hollowknight without godhome and troupe is worse than silksong. Literally all memorable hollowknight stuff is from later updates
Are the courier deliveries a repeatable source of rosaries, or do they eventually run out?
>>720885804You dont need to spike pogo in HK and there are like 2 optional spots where spike pogo lets you bypass reqs
>>720887576The town deliveries are repeatable, the deliveries to specific NPCs are once only. It's much faster to just grind the enemies near the songclave.
these fucking faggots on radiant are going to make me blow my brains out holy shitit's not even the fun kind of hard where you're learning attack patterns, it's "oops you dodged into a different bullet that was offscreen and blends into the background, get fucked idiot"
>>720887683huh, I think I just got to near Songclave. I dunno if I'm gonna go there yet or go to Bilewater(?) since I think I've done everything I can in Act 2 without going NW of First Shrine.Is Bilewater Act 2 or Act 3?
>>720884871>SS is just more annoying That “ambush” room in the Undercroft with the two fat fucks and the two flying faggots was total bullshit and I almost broke my controller over it. even doe that may be because my tv has a .15 second delay from controller input to visual rendering for some fucking reason.
>>720883706>way more exciting and uplifting fightsHK's boss lineup has higher highs and lower lows, whereas Silksongs' bosses range from mediocre to pretty good. I've only just gotten to act 3, and I've heard it's more boss-centric, so I've yet to experience the full breadth of the game's bosses and can't comment on them definitively.>way more memorable musicThis'll no doubt change over time as you become more familiar with the game, but there are already a few hits. Bonebottom's theme is a fantastic follow-up to Dirtmouth's theme, and likewise with Enter Pharloom and Enter Hallownest, as well as both the games' main menu themes. Songclave and Bellhart's themes are super memorable. Lace's theme has been out for years now, and it's immediately recognisable with the violin. Cogwork Dancers' theme works incredibly well with the fight, and Cogwork Core's theme follows it up well thematically.>isn't cluttered with a bunch of entire fucking areas that feel like a complete waste of timeIf you ignore Fog Canyon, Howling Cliffs, Royal Waterways, Queen's Gardens and Ancient Basin, then sure. There are a lot of pointless, monotonous, tedious, or forgettable parts of HK. The reason you think the game is cluttered is that it gives you measly rewards for exploration. That said, there were more times in Silksong where I uncovered a false wall that led me to a completely new and unique part of the game.>didn't have a final boss I first timedSkill issue. Grand Mother Silk is piss easy.>Why would I want a boss even remotely as cool as the Hollow Knight???While it's not quite as climactic, getting to the final phase of the Cogwork Dancers' fight gave me a comparable feeling to reaching the part of the HK's fight where he repeatedly stabs himself. It's a strange way of making you pity the boss. You'd expect the remaining dancer to speed up now that his partner is gone, but he continues fighting, only more slowly, as if he's resigned himself to his death.
On a somewhat unrelated note.I haven't touched base HK since launch, so I haven't played any dlc.Has anyone finished it on switch? Been thinking of replaying it on the console instead of pc, but I'm not quite sure how comfortable it will be, since I heard later parts in dlc are very hard.
>>7208879292
>>720889296Thanks, I'll go do that before continuing the Citadel. Hopefully you can answer without giving too much away, is the Pinmaster's Oil quest completable for me soon or is it still a long way off?
>>720888976Most if not all boses with big hitbox is dogshit design and unfun to fightLost lace as a final boss is mediocre desu
>>720889440There are 2 oils in the citadel, one is locked by a boss and a bit of exploration, the other by a ton of exploration only
>>720884871>>720884370You are delusional if you think Hollow Knight had better map design. It was a clusterfuck of levels slammed together incoherently. It felt like it was purposely designed to waste your time.
>>720888976>Skill issue.Ironic, since you made an illiterate straw man of what he actually said.
>>720889594counterpointHunter's march/Bile wateralso counter point THIS SHIT
>>720889589Wait I need 2? My quest only says one, unless its the same progression as pale ore? I think I know where one is, but I haven't found the route yet unless its the boss one. Thanks bro, time to go back in.
>>720888976He literally said he either first tried GMS(I did too) or Lost laceESL tard
I like HK's combat fundamentals significantly more than SS'sHK is entirely focused around Soul. Every mechanic you have is tied to either spending or generating Soul. Your heal only takes 30% of your soul bar, interchangeable with a spell cast. Your nail arts generate Soul. Everything works together.The entire system falls apart in SS. Heal is now 100% of your silk bar. Spells are giga omega nerfed, which only increases the priority of healing above all else. Charged attacks no longer generate Silk. Tools are entirely disconnected from the rest of the systems and tied to an abhorrent resource farming system because it's literally impossible to maintain a steady supply of shards if you're using your tools even a little bit. Not to mention that Knight had 3 charged attacks at a time and could even achieve several effects now relegated to tools via charms, so you had more combat options available to you at all times.The only cool new combat idea they introduced in SS is running attack/Clawline. But it's not enough to salvage the ridiculous downgrade to the rest of the mechanics.
>>720889642No, you need 1, but there are 2. You've found the boss one, yeah.
>>720883706haven't played silksong in the past 2 days, it's such a slog.
I think my only real complaints so far with silksong is two things, the first is that blue and yellow charms feel kinda mediocre/uninteresting and that the bosses rely too much on adds that don't drop any resources. I'd be more okay with them summoning the adds if they were actual units and dropped shards/rosaries etc.
>>720884370>variety- hollow knightWrong.
>>720889737The absurd amount of double damage in Silksong is the result of a full 3-mask heal. It was fundamentally broken from the start, they should have just reused the original healing system.
>>720889641>not doing it carefully knowing exactly what happens Skill issue.Also who gives a shit about shards anyway? That shit is infinite. I'm always maxed out.
>>720887576Yes but its gonna be slow as fuck compared to farming various spawns in A2.
>>720889641Your counterpoints suck dick. What is wrong with bilewater and hunter's march? That little dead end is admittedly not great but it's just one dead end.
>>720885561You should try playing the game before talking about it
>>720890507it's my webm, it was intended to show a fun trolling moment from the gamenot a "omg this game bad design" lmao
>>720892802That one fucking got me. The one in bilewater too and that's probably the worst one, just fucked up all around.
>>720883706I remember this boss being bugged when I did it. Guy was invisible during the whole 'unchaining' sequence and I didn't realise until I started taking damage from an invisible boss.Bit of a shame I didn't experience the buildup properly, it's a pretty kino fight even if it wasn't that difficult looking back.
>>720893056Didn't you had to fight him all over again if you died to Radiance? I think the difficulty was from that.
>>720892802>gamers when discussing bonfire mimic: :D>gamers when encountering bonfire mimic: >:(
Silksong is better in every way except musicYou can't gaslight me bro
>>720893251Yeah, you'd have to fight him again every time you died to The Radiance since the moth's in his head, so understandably the fight's pretty simple to make it more bearable.
>>720889632>illiterate straw manYou can either strawman an argument (deliberate) or misread it (accidental). I did the latter. Don't jump to conclusions.>>720889685>AHHHHHHH ESL ESL ESLNice projection, faggot.
>>720894079Moss Grotto, Bonebottom, Mount Fay, Bilewater, Choral Chambers, Lace, Widow, Cogwork Dancers, Cogwork Core, Blasted Steps, Underworks, Karmelita. All these are bangers.
>>720883706Silksong is way better, I can't empatize with an empty husk silent mc, but I was 100% worried about Hornet's fate in Silksong.
>>720892802That one didn't get me because I was so fucking paranoid I saw the pixels of the spike trap and NOPEd the fuck out of there.I didn't realise you could disable it until way later so I was doing that whole area with no bench.
>>720889641I replayed HK and Greenpath is so much worse than Hunters March hot damn, platforms placed randomly without any challenge in mind
>>720889641there's so many dead ends it's seems like the devs were meant to put somthing there but forgot. so instead its;>oh great I went out of my way for 5 shells.
>>720894079the music and animation in both games sucks.it's below most games in that regard.
>>720887696they shoot into a patternthe projectile spell not only hits both, it can knock them back for multihitsdash slash has great range
silksong is a worthy sequelmuch like its lame that hk1 only had one base nail moveset and no way to significantly change its feel, its lame that pharloom is a much less interesting world than hallownest. apply like 10 other comparisons like this and you have two pretty good games with their own ups and downsId much rather have a sequel like this, "DS1 to DS2" style, than a sequel what is just kind of creatively bankrupt.
>>720887696I don't remember them being particularly difficult on Radiant. As the other dude said you can push them to the same side of the arena with your Soul attack
>>720887696Just keep them both on the same side of the arena and dash slash or fireball them. Make sure to damage them both equally so that the remaining Oblobble dies quickly in phase 2. These guys weren't too bad. Radiant Markoth can get fucked, though.
>>720885804Because it's all about combat now, godhome broke TC's brains.
>>720883706they spent too much time listening to reddit and we got a piece of shit after waiting six years. all parties involved should be executed.
>>720887651Yeah, I believe path of pain is the only part of the game that actually requires pogoing and that doesn't give you a tangible reward
>>720883706>no tools to comically trivialize every and all combatAbyssal Shriek breaks HK bosses far more than even the strongest tools break SSPre-nerf flukenest was far stronger than even poison cogflies
>>720901116>compass and magnet still takes up a slot>contact damage is twice as relevant>still need to buy maps>unironically made nail arts weakerTC did not listen to anybody, for better or worse. Mostly for the better
>>720901404pre nerf flukenest isnt really meaningfulabyss shriek is something you maybe get at the last 70-80% of the game and it still requires some precision to pull offI still think silksong is much harder for steel soul than HK1 no matter how hard you cheese though
>>720883706Literally just Dark Souls but bugs slapped on.
things that are worse in silk song>grinding>runbacks>unlocking true ending is less intuitive
>>720901543>still requires some precision to pull offit really doesn't, you can just spam it and tank the occasional hit even on Radiance and just win off of it >pre nerf flukenest isnt really meaningfulWhy isn't that meaningful? It was around for a pretty long time and plenty of people just clung to a dead spot and killed bosses easily that wayHK also has far far stronger charms that can trivialize a ton of fights pretty much letting you just stand there and spam attack
>>720901718>unlocking true ending is less intuitivedid we all collectively forget that there was no good indication in the first game you had to go back to the abyss a second time and stand in a random spot?
>>720902023i dont remember having to google for HK like i did for silk song
>>720887467Kill yourself and return to tao
>>720902315opposite for me, I just met the requirements for the true ending in silk song by being a completionist and talking to everyone before fighting the final boss looking for a bit of extra lore
>>720884370> Music HKWrong> Map design HKWrong> Variety HKWrong
>>720902456The guy you have to talk to was not somebody I would have expected to advance me past the false ending. You are sort of conditioned to repeatedly keep checking the quest boards, and if I remember right, I think he was actually hooting and hollering to tip you off that he had something important to say. So there is that. Still wasnt expecting it to be him. Not that I would have expected it be anyone else over him, he just didnt stand out to me that much.
>>720884370you forgot charm/equipment system - hollow knighteconomy - hollow knightsteel soul mode - hollow knightand boss rewards - hollow knight
>>720884370you forgotfrustration - silksong
>>720884370you forgot:nuts - silksong
>>720890404Holy fuck am I glad some of you retards aren't allowed to design games>>720889737Spells are not weak at all
How many Needle upgrades should I have when fighting Groal the Great, I have one and this feels like shit. Especially since I can barely hit him thanks to the range on Reaper
>>720905629>Spells are not weak at allNo, they are fucking dogshit. Silk Storm is less than 4 hits with your nail. The parry has no recovery iframes so you can still get dicked by enemy hitbox. The only way to make them better is by stacking Shaman and that one charm that gives them extra 0.5 damage per hit, but they still lose to tools and HK magic by a wide margin.
>>720884370>Bosses- silksongwrong
>>720905695he's the hardest part of act2, maybe the entire game. you should have at least 3
>>720905695I had 3 upgrades >free bellhart>pale oil sitting in whispering vaults>great taste of pharloom quest
>>720905771Hk spells are not well balanced. Silksong spells do their job of deleting ads reliably. I'll take your word on the parry but I've personally never had that occur in any of my use cases.
>>720905860>>720905937DamnI only have one (the free one)Does he have much more HP after he starts shooting vengeful spirits at you? Because if that's early in the fight I'll fuck off and come back
>>720906136>Hk spells are not well balancedI will take HK's spells being strong over an entire arsenal full of worthless shit. Even with shaman stone i literally canot oneshot voided ads in chapter 3. This is worthless.
>>720883706>>didn't have a final boss I first timedYou must be the best to first try lost lace, i kneel
my stupid chud son that I hate
>>720887382Silksong is fine and if they really want to they can nerf some damage here or there. They already have with some of the stage hazards
>>720906563Silksong's issues are not related to damage but the way resource management works first and foremost.
>>720901938you still need to farm soul and be below the enemyand in ss you get to have murderous tools while coming in with a ton of lifeblood and still heal spamming>why isnt that meaningful?it was nerfed very quickly, 80% of people didnt play with that, it makes no sense to judge the game for something that doesnt exist anymore and was just a silly case>HK also has far far stronger charms that can trivialize a ton of fights pretty much letting you just stand there and spam attackthis is true compared to the blue charms but its not going to let you completely erase the difficulty of fights like nkg, failed champion, etc without some great strategy
>>720906790Rose beads are mostly fine if you don't try to buy out every shop the second you see them. I was swimming in the stuff by end game
>>720906905You objectively need to farm beads if you want to buy everything. You're several thousand beads short even if you don't lose any as long as you don't farm.But the real stinker is the fucking shell shard system and the fact healing spends 100% of your silk spool.
>>720887696There are all kinds of problems, but I will never get over the fucking dash having a set range that can't be cancelled out of. It feels so awful in fights to only be able to dash this EXACT length and duration every time and not be able to react to obstaclesI haven't played Silksong (yet?), but if they fixed the dash I will buy it immediately
>>720907102I don't like the shell shard system either. Also you're wrong anyways because they've already rebalanced money and could easily do it again if they wanted to.
>>720883706>Rip off Dark Souls completely Of course it's better
>>720884370Pretty accurate, except maybe for bosses. The bosses in SS are more 'fun' to fight but generally a lot less memorable.The music was easily my biggest disappointment. All the OSTs in SS are good, but literally none of them are actually memorable besides Choral Chambers. The vast majority are just variations of ethereal string music and they all blend together. While on the flipside, almost every single fucking track in HK is a 10/10
>>720883706You didn't first time Lost LaceAnd by the looks of this thread you can't even manage to beat her
>zoomer's babby's first le deep lore gameCute.
>>720908003>but literally none of them are actually memorable besides Choral Chambersthis is an exageration>cogwork core>high halls>bilewater, somewhat sinners path
>>720883706I don't even understand which one you prefer.
>>720905695don't bother nailing him.toss bombs when he tries to suck you in, and use a boomerang on him otherwise.other than that, just dodge his shots.the hardest part in that fight is the adds.
>>720910047I don't have a boomerang, but thanks. Bombs did not occur to me. I assume they do extra during the suction?
>>720889737Don't forget that 9 entire spool upgrades are equivalent to an additional heal in silk songIn HK, just 1 soul upgrade gets you a heal, and you can get 3 upgrades
>>720910624while also making one of the movement abilities take silkseriously fucking retarded
>>720906226You may have trouble getting one of the oils. However, the one in whispering vaults is a freebie.
>>720910624>>720910719Seriously, what the fuck is the point of clawline using silk? It only devalues spools further because you actively use clawline for exploration so it drains stupidly fast.
>>720910254you don't have boomerang?if you want to find it go back to hunter's march and explore it
>>720910947I'm surprised they didn't do the same shit for all other movement abilities>dash? costs 5 shards per dash>float? your silk bar is now the BOTW stamina bar>wall jump? takes one health away per jump>double jump? $1 from your bank accountgranted, I dropped the game before I got double jump, so I wouldn't be surprised if somebody told me it uses silk
>>720910947>>720910719At the very least, it hits enemies twice. Making its use in combat a net positive in silk generation. But for general exploration is a silk drain. Feels bad
>>720911093I did think Hunters March was kinda small but I don't remember seeing any obvious expansion points.>>720910943Haven't found there yet, thanks will look for it
>>720911167Double jump doesn't, but the superjump from act 3 does use silk for absolutely zero reason
>>720910254Bombs during the succ, yeah.The boomerang is one of the best tools of the game for dealing with fliers and enemies with big hitboxes (most bosses). It can be obtained very early too, but it may take you a while to find since it is hidden.
