Discuss wtf is going on in the plot of this game.Spoilers, (obviously)A very salient theme in Silksong is motherhood.Shakra's master / mother figureGrand "mother" Silk declaring the Weavers as her daughtersThe Red Memory and Hornet's three mothersThe Weaver Queen ending ends with Hornet in the foetal positionGrayroot and the twisted childSkarrsinger Karmelita is seemingly an Ant Queen and therefore mother to all the Skarr AntsThe very first boss is the Moss MotherThe infertility of the Weavers and the sterility of Grand Mother SilkGrand Mother Silk creating Lace and Phantom as step children
>>721162796Bug culture is matriarchal when spiders sit atop it.Is no big surprise.
>Moss Mother, the first bossAlso has a journal entry about what mothers will be pushed to when their offspring are threatened
>>721162796I really hope they give us a mode where we can play as the weaver god Hornet turns into after the first endingI mean it literally has it's own health bar and shit just waiting to be utilized
>After all... it's you that she wants... is it not? what did she mean by this?
1/2Grand Mother Silk is a Pale Being and therefore has an innate will to reproduce and control.She created the weavers from pharlid bugs out of said necessity to reproduce.Together with her creations she built the citadel on Pharloom where silk is a divine material (which it is).The weavers shared their nature with their creator and thus they too desired control, this caused them to want to rebel against Grand Mother Silk.Once they figured out they were created from lesser bugs they lost faith in Grand Mother Silk and imprisoned her in a giant cocoon of silk with music.Now with their god trapped, the weavers took over the kingdom as rulers because of their ability to weave silk.The weavers started experimenting with silk on non-weaver bugs, this led to the creation of Whiteward.By implanting silk on every bug around the citadel for generations they've made sure they'd have total control over all of those bugs.By spreading silk everywhere they unintentionally gave Grand Mother Silk, the de facto ruler of this divine material, access to everything.Somewhere along the story - nobody knows when - Grand Mother Silk created Phantom and Lace out of pure silk and zero organic matter. Those 2 beings require an enormous amount of silk to sustain themselves.Grand Mother Silk starts waking up from her forced slumber, and thanks to the weavers she now has direct control over all bugs in the region. This is what is called the Silken Curse or the Cursed Thread.The weavers freak out and flee, knowing they'd be severely punished for their treachery.Now the zombified bugs are tasked with seeking out and capturing weavers and their descendants in order to produce silk to sustain Lace and Phantom.This leads to Hornet being captured.Because Lace is entirely made of silk her mind isn't stable and due to Hornet being a demigod she thinks her mother will replace her with Hornet, this causes her to free Hornet from her captors in an act of rebellion.
>>721167131Okay but this doesn't address the part of Pharloom's history where the Weavers are gone and the Conductors are the rulers. Seemingly they were not haunted during that time period. Your summary indicates the Haunting started before the Weavers left Pharloom.
>>7211671312/2Spoilers aheadHornet eventually rises to the top of the citadel and confronts Grand Mother Silk with the help of the snail shamans and their trap.The trap opens a portal to the void in order to seal away Grand Mother Silk. Before she is able to drag Hornet down with her, Lace shows up and saves Hornet in yet another act of rebellion against her mother. All this time Lace is under the impression that her mother doesn't love her because of her fragile silk nature, which see perceives as not being genuine life and being artificial.Now trapped deep in the void sea alongside her daughter, which she loves above anything else in the world, Grand Mother Silk creates a giant cocoon to protect them from the void.Unable to escape and in anger and desperation, she uses her silk to spread the void to the entire kingdom above her. She is willing to burn it all down in revenge for the inevitable death that her daughter will suffer.Hornet, in order to save the bugs still alive in Pharloom, decides to calm Grand Mother Silk by rescuing Lace from the void.Once down there she finds out the cocoon could only do so much to keep the void away and that Lace has been possessed by it; the final boss fight ensues and Hornet wins.Grand Mother Silk, now aware that Hornet is there to save Lace, decides to give what's left of her strength and life to Hornet so that she can escape with Lace.That's basically it.Grand Mother Silk was willing to do everything and anything for Lace.>>721167565>Grand Mother Silk starts waking up from her forced slumber, and thanks to the weavers she now has direct control over all bugs in the region. This is what is called the Silken Curse or the Cursed Thread.>The weavers freak out and flee, knowing they'd be severely punished for their treachery.They ran when they realized their spell was failing and that their own experiments with silk had given Grand Mother Silk control over bugs.
>>721167736>Grand Mother Silk was willing to do everything and anything for Lace.What a lame-ass antagonist.
Fourth chorus was incapacitated by Pinstress
>>721167736>Grand Mother Silk was willing to do everything and anything for Lace.But not Phantom? Why was her first silk daughter relegated to farting pipe organ duty?
>>721167978A mother's love for her fragile child is a motivation that's hard to find fault in.Way better than Radiance's revenge desu.>>721168094Something about Phantom turning black tells me she was a prototype of sorts and that silk alone couldn't save her. Maybe Phantom was partly made with organic matter and so she was mortal.Lace is a perfect silk being that will live forever as long as there's silk to sustain her.
a fucking CORAL REEF with ROBOTS and FEATHERED BIRDS. explain this lorebeards.
waiting for zotesteel where you play as him in the land of iron
>>721167131This sounds about right except >Now the zombified bugs are tasked with seeking out and capturing weavers and their descendants in order to produce silk to sustain Lace and Phantom.There's so much silk lying around in the game (just the Cradle for example) that I don't think the Weavers would've made a difference for Lace and Phantom. I think GMS just wanted her family and by extension their descendants back with her>Unable to escape and in anger and desperation, she uses her silk to spread the void to the entire kingdom above her. She is willing to burn it all down in revenge for the inevitable death that her daughter will suffer.Silk was just hanging on for dear life and spread her thread up to counter the Void pulling her down. The Void climbed up her threads and spread around the kingdom. There was no feeling of rage and revenge involved
>>721167736>Unable to escape and in anger and desperation, she uses her silk to spread the void to the entire kingdom above her. She is willing to burn it all down in revenge for the inevitable death that her daughter will suffer.Eh... no? It is the void ITSELF that is getting out of control and spreading everywhere because it wants to eat Grand Mother Silk and can't do it. Kind of like a tantrum.
>>721170130I'm pretty sure the cutscene where the corrupted silk threads start shooting out of the ground is GMS doing her thing, not the void trying to reach out
>>721162796Hornet's entire character is a parallel to the pale king, even since the first game.
redpill me on Phantom
Can GMS not produce her own silk? Why do weavers keep needing to be enslaved by the Citadel when they've got the source of all silk as their prisoner?
>>721162796>The infertility of the Weaverswhy do people keep mentioning this? did all you miss the cradle room with the cages?
would hornet be a good mom?
>>721170546Infertile, anon. Not STERILE. Learn the difference
>>721167736Nta but do we have any reason to believe the weavers were behind Whiteward's experiments, rather than something that happened far later their escape? Same for Silk's motivation, is it ever stated she's hunting down weavers for Lace?
>>721170546>why do people keep mentioning this?because of Eva's dialogue"I am unique, you see. My mothers shared the curse of their tribe, to conceive a child is a painful, near impossible task.">>721170741>Infertile, anon. Not STERILEthis
>>721169432>I think GMS just wanted her family and by extension their descendants back with herThe captured weavers are clearly being farmed for their silk. Widow's lore and the Cradle inscriptions say this. Only question is "why" given GMS's very nature as a silk source.
How many babies per second can the white lady make?
>>721170748By implanting silk on bugs the weavers would exert control over them
>>721170647she tried but not success
>>721170835"Enough" t. Pale King.
>>721170647Yes but she can’t be one herself. Those eggs are drier than the Sahara.
>>721170835>I need COCK, PK!
>>721162796it's all just vibes lore, there's not much to discuss reallythere's bugs and generic god fuckery and 'le void' that consumes everything
>>721167131>Now with their god trapped, the weavers took over the kingdom as rulers because of their ability to weave silk.Green Prince's dream dialogue with Hornet implies that GMS was in charge of the citadel when it conquered Verdania. At least part of the Citadel's establishment was under GMS's direct leadership before she got BETRAYED and TRAPPED.
>>721170835You think Hornet ever got mad at her for being able to produce babies like nothing and throwing them all away when weavers had a lot of pain and trouble reproducing
>>721171216Most of the citadel was established while GMS was floating aroundShe alone toppled all of the mighty rulers in the region who refused to join her religion
For some raisin I never thought to ask what happens if you drop some money in the confessional after you break the robot.
>>721170835How could anyone know?If I randomly guessed Pale King bred vessels for 10 years and made a total of 800,000 attempted vessels, then the White Lady can gestate and birth 1 vessel in 394.200001352 seconds.So once every 6 and a half minutes for 10 years straight. (If vessels were generated one at a time)
SOMEONE PLS RESPOND >>721170489 WHAT'S THE POINT OF CAPTURING WEAVERS FOR THEIR SILK WHEN GMS LITERALLY JUST IS AN INFINITE SILK FOUNTAIN.
>>721170905Wich is never implied to be an objective of Whiteward, rather than prolonging their lives, the surgeons aren't weaver, and weavers have never shown Silk's ability to control bugs through silk.This seems just an attempt at villainizing them for no reason.
Strangely attracted to Scrounge.
>>721171469We don't know why GMS captured the weavers, wether it was for silk, trying to escape or raw spite.
>>721171528>they maintained a theocracy built on a lot of slave labor and false promises of ascension but they're good guysCome on
>Pale King: establishes his kingdom and leaves the surrounding lands almost entirely unscathed, even does real diplomacy on his neighbors and establishes peaceable relations (this makes Radiance incredibly angry), his only crime is not genociding moths hard enough.>Grandmother Silk: establishes her kingdom by Genghis Khan'ing all her neighbors and turning everything outside the citadel into a ruined wasteland, and her kingdom's culture is the 40k Imperium of BugkindPale King did nothing wrong.
>>721171723>they maintained a theocracy built on a lot of slave labor and false promises of ascensionEven this is an assumption, we see in the bottom of the whispering vaults a statue made to greet pilgrims, and even that we don't know if it's made by the weavers. We don't know wich of the citadel's policies are the weaver's, and the first sinner's being the slab's first prisoner makes me doubt it's from them that certain parts were fromed.
>>721170130I don't think she's trying to spread the void, but rather just shooting her silk out trying to get out and the void is just taking advantage of the situation by hitching a ride
>>721171847>>Grandmother Silk: establishes her kingdom by Genghis Khan'ing all her neighborsYou got a problem with Genghis Khan, wuss?
>>721171918The weavers are perfectly capable of imprisoning one of their own kind while still in GMS's cult, the fact that she's chained up with Weaver-style soul seals is telling. The weavers were always bitches, they're literally spiders.
>>721171918Not an assumptionConductor Ballador tells you the weavers took power as soon as GMS was containedThings were already oppressive thenFirst Sinner was sealed by other weavers btw
>>721172153>First Sinner was sealed by other weavers btwWhat's your source for that?
>The ultimate thing in the universe that can completely nullify the void>randomly falls apart???
>>721172237The glimmering silk on the chains keeping her locked up
>>721172109Then why wouldn't they have freed her when they rebelled? Also the same seals of binding are used on your prison, the first sinner might have created them but it doesn't seem they're the only ones who can use them.I'm not saying they dindu nuffin, but accusing them of everything is just making assumptions, especially for things like the slab and whiteward.
>>721172153>Things were already oppressive thenAm I forgetting where did they state this?>First Sinner was sealed by other weaversNo proof of that and run countrary to her entire point in the story.
>>721172384Because they were too focused on running away at the time and they might have literally just forgot she was down there after being sealed for 99999999 years, not to mention the Conductors seizing power and forcing them out.
>>721172269Did you miss the part where it took huge amount of power to bring back from a memory? It barely exists.
>>721172269We already saw in the delicate flower ending that it started consuming in the exact same way after destroying the void given focus.
>>721172462>Am I forgetting where did they state this?The fact that they destroyed every surrounding kingdom and poisoned the water supply to make the Citadel doesn't clue you in to the fact that they were running a slave empire?
>>721172485But if they ruled for a prolonged amount of time the citadel they had more occasion than the exact moment they were hunted away, also again the statue in the vaults implies that at the start the citadel was more welcoming than the hellscape it is now.
>>721172462The citadel cannot function without the slave labor from Underworks, Greymoor and Deep DocksNor can it function without dumping waste in what became BilewaterIt really was oppressive back then>No proof of that and run countrary to her entire point in the storyHuh?First Sinner rebelled while GMS was still free and so the weavers had no choice but to lock her up
>>721172647I'm pretty sure they bounced immediately after imprisoning GMS. They set up the Citadel under her leadership, lived there for a while as the elite ruling class, but then once they turned on her and chained her up, they stuck around only for long enough to ensure it was working and fled.
>>721172563>they destroyed every surrounding kingdomThat was GMS, I think, from the snail shamans dialogue>and poisoned the water supply to make the CitadelConsidering Phantom handles the exhaust organ that seems more recent.
>>721172856The weavers were working for GMS at the time. The most generous possible interpretation of the Weavers' actions was that they rebelled against GMS because they were outraged over committing all those atrocities under false promises of divinity.
what was their fucking problem?
>>721172728>The citadel cannot function without the slave labor from Underworks, Greymoor and Deep Docks>Nor can it function without dumping waste in what became BilewaterWe don't know about that, the fact now it's functioning like this doesn't mean it couldn't be run without the immense corruption it has now.>First Sinner rebelled while GMS was still free and so the weavers had no choice but to lock her upThey too rebelled against her.>>721172818Understood.
My take on the Weavers losing control of the citadel is that they weren't overthrown. Rather there was a schism between Weavers who thought they needed to stick to the "keep making music to keep GMS asleep forever" plan and ones who saw that wasn't working and wanted to get the fuck out of Dodge before she woke up. Then the ones who stayed kept trying to track down the ones who fled until eventually they all died out and it was just the Conductors and other Citadel bugs continuing to follow their orders not really knowing why.
>>721167070It's not clear if Hornet was taken to pharloom because of her inate abilities to use focus to summon silk or because GMS wanted a "real" daughter instead of Lace. I think that this dialogue points towards the latter while all the cages hidden away in the cradle points toward the former. Lace might not have understood why GMS wanted hornet since she has rebelled against GMS but clearly took it personally.
>>721171571she has a cute voice
One thing makes me doubt weavers were responsible for the polution is the fact we find weaver ruins in the far east of the kingdom in the pure lake that becomes fleatopia, as well as in Mt Fay.They seemed to respect the natural world.
>>721173086Plausible. Still doesn't answer why they needed to have these weavers make silk by force given the infinite silk battery next to them. Maybe they were scared that using GMS's silk directly would wake her up or something?
>>721173049>We don't know about that, the fact now it's functioning like this doesn't mean it couldn't be run without the immense corruption it has nowYes we doWeavers are narcissistic just like their creatorsAll collectible weaver effigies point out to weavers being worshiped for being direct descendants of GMS, the entire religion built on oppression already existed and so did the citadel's infrastructure maintenance requirements>They too rebelled against herLong after the First SinnerThey had no choice but to lock her up
>>721172269My question is why did the white lady refuse the one we gave her in the first game. And why these shits aren't planted everywhere in hallownest in the first place
>>721173370I dunno, unless the Citadel like quintupled in size between when GMS was put to bed and the present day, it seems pretty intrinsic to its nature as a 40k Hive City to btfo the environment around it. That could be yet another motivation for the weavers turning on GMS.
>>721173545>Weavers are narcissistic just like their creators>All collectible weaver effigies point out to weavers being worshiped for being direct descendants of GMSYes, wich was the lie for wich they rebelled.I doubt that the first sinner was completely disconnected from the betrayal of the weavers, rather than showing us the reason they betrayed in the first place.Let's agree to disagree.
>>721173370>>721173629All the industrial aspects of the citadel seem to be purely part of the "keep rocking grandma to sleep in her cradle" plan so they probably were built by the Weavers who considered the loss of their old Weavenests an acceptable sacrifice.Then probably at some point a Conductor set up the Memorium because they realized all this nature might not be around forever.
>>721173889At the very least, the destruction of Sands of Karak and Verdania was part of the original construction of the citadel, not GMS's imprisonment scheme. Similarly, the exhaust organ and bilewater ducts are just the waste streams of such a gigantic city and those are pretty intrinsic to its mere existence. Yes, Phantom is piloting it but it needs to be operational for the city to exist at all. The only part of the citadel I can think of that's directly connected to the GMS rockaby plot is the weaver kidnapping, somehow.
I forgot, do we actually see captured Weavers in the game? Maybe somewhere in the background?
>>721173629Nta, wasn't somewhere stated that originally the citadel was much smaller and more barebones?Obviously we don't know wether that refers to it under the weavers or spmething from even before them, and they just took over a pilgrimage site.
>>721174157In the Cradle you find carriages like the one Hornet was in at the start along with descriptions of Weaver descendants who were captured and how many soldiers they lost in the attempt.
>>721170130>>721170264I saw it as Grand Mother Silk shooting out silk strings from the void sea to anchor herself/her cocoon, to avoid sinking any further. The void then used those direct lines to the surface to climb up.
>>721174181If it is stated somewhere, I don't know if it. You'll have to be the one to find it.
WEAVER FUCKING SHITSSILKMOM DESERVED BETTER
>>721173086>>721173516Also, Widow's dialogue strongly hints at the existence of such a schism - that there were at least a few weavers who remained loyal to GMS and were punished by their fellows on the way out the door.
What are the lore implications of Lace's massive ass?
>>721174948She takes after her mother.
What's their power level?
>>721174948absolutely nobody:GMS creating lace:>haa...haa...yes it must be BIGGER
Reminder the weavers subverted an existing religion. The original citadel was more like an ascetic temple in Nepal.
>>721175875so does this mean there is still a weaver alive in hallownest?
>>721176376Which item is this?
>>721176537It's an NPC.
>>721167131>Somewhere along the story - nobody knows when - Grand Mother Silk created Phantom and Lace out of pure silk and zero organic matter. Those 2 beings require an enormous amount of silk to sustain themselves.I've seen this posted a couple times now but I never got that impression, where is it implied?I also think the Weavers didn't conduct any experiments with Silk on the normal bugs, I was under the impression that came after they fucked off and gave the Cult ruling rights.The Cult tried to become more like the Weavers who they recognized as the closest to their God but eventually came to consider heretics that abandoned their God's teachings. If you look around the Slab the Weavers they managed to imprison were all charged with having abandoned their beliefs.It wouldn't make much sense for the Weavers to attempt "raising other common bugs" up to their station, they are arrogant to a fault and view themselves as vastly superior to the common folk which is in no small part why the Citadel looks the way it is.
>>721176628where is that
>>721176628>Citadel's simple stone, bare and adornedHuh>>721176716Iirc that's whispering vaults
>>721162796>Pale beings (The radiance, The pale King, Mother silk) are greater bugs that give regular bugs self-awareness and higher intelligence>This leads to these intelligent bugs to build entire kingdoms and religions based on the pale being worship>Eventually the power of the pale beings diminishes and their kingdoms fall into gradual decay>Pale beings then fall into despair and do ANYTHING to cling onto their dying glory>But this only leads to Dark Souls: A bugs life editionMother Silk is just another pale being desperatly trying to maintain her rule over her kingdom, no cost too great......But honestly this kind of story has been told way too many times already, and IMO, it only worked in the Original Dark Souls and Nine Sols.
>>721176628Hmm so that confirms the following>The caste system of Pharloom and associated slave labor was definitely the system working as devised by GMS who wanted her children to rule the world with an iron fist as a race of demigods>The Weavers were the ones to industrialize the citadel and transform it into a giant musical instrument to keep GMS asleep, the ruin of Bilewater, Verdania, and Karak was their doing and presumably just acceptable collateral damage for freeing themselves of her
>>721176870>Mother Silk is just another pale being desperatly trying to maintain her rule over her kingdom, no cost too great......Opposite desu.Mother Silk is like an inversion of PK.No Cost too Great (for my kingdom).But Silk's belief is No Cost too Great (for my children).
>>721171847I'm not sure GMS did any of that honestly. She doesn't strike me as the same kind of being as the Pale King at all. I figure all she really desired was having children and caring for them, she doesn't seem to be the ruling type like the Wyrms at all.I think what happened was that she created the Weavers to have something akin to children and the Weavers ended up desiring to stand above everyone else as a ruling class, so she helped them herself or supplied with them with enough power (Silk) to make that a reality.Eventually the Weavers realized that all their might was dependent on their "Mother's" goodwill and started detesting her as the one being they are dependent on so they rebelled.
>>721176376>>721176628Thank you for finding it for me.>>721174304
>>721176670The bugs imprisoned in the Slab aren't Weavers (with one notable exception). They're all bugs guilty of sins like "dissonance" (not being a good enough singer) and "infirmity" (getting too old to work).Since the whole GMS situation seems to explicitly parallel the Radiance it seems like the Weavers started putting silk into bugs to make them live longer so they could work forever to keep Grandma asleep and then as she started stirring those silk strands were a way for her to mind control those bugs which became the Haunting. Then the Weavers realized they dun goofed.
>>721176628>>721177012Are we sure thats true and not just weaver propaganda? Maybe the weaver even devised the very very original base religion to lure in bhgs before pulling the rug under themLook at the dialogueHe mentions>first-childrenWhich shpuld mean the weavers no?
>>721176870>no cost too greathow much were the sawblades?
>>721176670it's implied with the capturing of weaversnone of them survive whatever ordeal they're put through once in the citadelthe only weaver left is Widow and they removed her mask and lodged pins in her spine so that she couldn't produce any more silk
>>721177151The Conductor says that GMS is the only true ruler the Citadel's ever had. She was like the tiger mom who bullies all the other kids and refs at the junior ballgame so her babies could stand out.
>>721174948GMS lets her eat too many sugarbits
>>721177312Them capturing the Weavers honestly looked more like an act on revenge on GMS' part to me. It also started long before the Haunting was in full swing, which if anything makes me think a lot of it was also just the Cult Bugs wanting more sources of Silk to lift themselves higher and closer to their God.I don't think you can infer that Lace and Phantom require a steady supply of Silk from that at all.
>>721177280Where did the rosaries come from though? Or the culture focused on bells? Or even the pilgrimage itself?I find it really hard to believe that the Weavers devised an ENTIRE religion in order to power a machine to put GMS to sleep. I genuinely think there was an existing faith longlong ago that they just completely upended. Like there are three existing tribes that the Citadel snuffed out long ago. I wpuld not be surprised if there was a buddhist/hindu adjacent temple too.
>>721176870Mother Silk values her children above everything else. The kingdom and its inhabitants can go fuck themselves, the only thing that matters is the safety of Lace and Phantom."No Cost Too Great" in her case refers to her daughters.
>>721177280It's at the very least a depiction of how the religion and citadel worked when GMS was around, before the place got converted into its modern form as a titanic pipe organ.
>>721177652There was definitely some kind of ascetic society there at one point that they repurposed to create an endless supply of obedient workers and tacked on a musical theme.
>>721177702Was GMS around at the start of Pharloom or did she just arrive like the PK? Crust King, Karmelita, and Gay Prince never had indications of them worshipping her.
>>721177823Snail Shamans explicitly say Pharloom is older than her.
>>721177823They weren't meant to worship her. They were meant to be trampled underfoot to serve the Weavers. Hornet says to Green Prince in Verdania that "you were crushed under the might of a pale being, you never had a chance." All that conquest, and the slavery religion that followed, was GMS trying to gift the world to her children in the worst possible way.
>>721174948If you had to design your perfect daughterfu from scratch, wouldn't you shape her like that?
>>721177823she arrived later and destroyed every tribe and civilization that refused to bow to her
I'm just sad that when a "celebrity" like mossbag will make a lorevideo discussing theories will become impossible, everything will be swallowed by his assumptions in most sutes, when I believe that the game was left ambigous exactly so you can form your own ideas about the motivations of the various actors.
>>721177921Ah well that confirms it then definitely. I guess there really was an ascetic religion being practiced before the Weavers came and fucked it up.
>>721170445>sibling of Lace>seething>chuuni>teleprots behind u
>>721177921>>721178018"Pharloom" is older than GMS, but it's her who conquered it and turned it into a single entity known as Pharloom. Before then, it was a bunch of tribes. It wouldn't be called Pharloom, it would be called "the greater region encompassing Karak, Verdania, Great Woods, and Antville" because they were all separate polities at the time. For the bug statue to call it Pharloom means it was made after she took over.
>>721178232>seethingwhen he has needolin quotes like>Free me from this fading fateHe's just suffering.
HK1 is a better game and has better loreWhere is the Shade Lord?>>721173576Void wasn't the perceived problem in Hallownest. Radiance/Dream was.
>>721178336Yeah he's seething that you aren't suffering too
There was a time when the Weavers didn't go fucking crazy, you know?I think when they were first created, that's when the original humble ascetic religion was created. Of course, they didn't hate GMS yet so they were just happy doing their own weaver things and created a faith to worship their mom with other bugs. But then the First Sinner happened and everything went ballistic and they took the religion they created and converted the once plain Citadel into a grand gilded industrial monstrosity.
>>721178494>Where is the Shade Lord?Keep playing.
>>721162796>Hollow Knight: A vengeful god of light poisons the souls of her former worshippers. The reigning king of Hallownest tries to save his kingdom by sacrificing his children, turning them into demons made of a malevolent darkness that has been the enemy of the light god for eons. The shadow children continue to follow their directive long after the kingdom has fallen.>Silksong: A brat changes her mind about where she wants to send the plot every 5 minutes because she's an angsty teen who doesn't know whether mommy loves her.What went wrong?
>>721178494Sure but pale king was messing around with void. So there was a slim chance. And white lady talks about the flower being their family's only way to resist the void, whatever that means
>>721167978Both HK and SS were because of a godlike being having a woman moment. Grandma Silk is more sympathetic though
>>721178875
>>721167978Yeah and the Radiance was fucking seething because the moth tribe she created forgot her.
>>721178968I find it far more relatable because what is a god without worship
>>721178851The entirety of Silksong is just predicated on a mom having a fight with her daughters lmao
>>721179054Well what is a Mother without her children? Same shit. GS base instincts probably revolve and dictate her actions to care far far more about her creations.
>>721178968That made way more sense. And it wasn't a "forgot" thing. It was a Pale Cuckoo annihilated all but one of her statues and sandlasted her out of history situation.
Good day fellow LOREGODS.What do we think about the City of Steel?
>>721167131>The weavers freak out and flee, knowing they'd be severely punished for their treachery.>Now the zombified bugs are tasked with seeking out and capturing weavers and their descendants in order to produce silk to sustain Lace and Phantom.Some Weavers left before GMS woke up, otherwise the Weavers in Hallownest wouldn't have tried to return to their homeland after the second outbreak of the Infection, unless they were stupid enough to seek GMS's mercy
>>721179371Didn't care too much about them, until that bitch implied they could "tame" higher beings. Now that is interesting.
It's funny how Hornet thinks Pharloom is such a shithole that in the Red Memory when she confronts the White Lady she says "yeah, you and dad were right the whole time" KEK
>>721179371I think the Pale King went of and founded it after Hallownest failed.
>>721179826hallownest thrived a lot and for a long time until mothussy came in breaking the furniture though.
>>721162796The Weavers aren't infertile, they just can't make more pure blooded Weavers
>>721162796I don't remember which writer or philosopher said this but basically if your character drama only continues because the characters are being artificially prevented from clearing up the misunderstanding, then it's a bad character drama" and it applies fully to Silksong.The Silksong situation is entirely predicated on Lace incorrectly assuming Grandma Silk doesn't love her, and contriving a situation in which they are never allowed to communicate with each other. This is a very weak basisupon which to build an entire story.The drama of the first game isn't anything special either, but there was at least a tragedy because it was a seemingly unsolvable situation in which so much was sacrificed all for nothing. This is replaced in Silksong by Lace throwing the tantrums befitting of a kindergarten-aged little girl who's jealous of her sibling.
>weavers try and fail to keep a god imprisoned>leave>pale king rolls up to herrah>"hey check this I got a cool plan to keep a god imprisoned, wanna help?">"..."
>>721180042the plan didn't work for a completely unrelated reason from the weavers though
>>721162796There is also Huntress, her quest couldn't get any more motherhood related
>>721180037The "situation" is a lot bigger than Lace. She's not responsible for the Citadel or the Weavers rebelling or the Haunting or Hornet's abduction. She interferes twice by freeing Hornet and saving her from getting sucked into the snare. So she's responsible for Act 3's problems, but those aren't the only problems.
>>721179938That's because Hallownest was designed to be a functioning kingdom, and there was never a moment in Pharloom's history where it wasn't a scam. When GMS ruled it, it was just a scam to feed the weavers infinite luxury as a class of vampire lords. Then when the Weavers took over directly, it became a scam where the bugs had to offer their immortal souls to keep GMS imprisoned under false pretenses of salvation.
>>721180037Lace's misunderstanding is only responsible for what happens in Act 3.The Haunting would still take place without her and Weavers/Hornet would still be abducted by the Citadel even if she didn't exist.Lace is only responsible for the Void Trap backfiring and dooming Pharloom with Void Silk infestation.
>>721179805Too bad her daddy issues still persist. Him being an absent dad on top of abandoning her and a decent enough kingdom that she still calls herself daughter of hallownest.
>>721179740whoah reallyWhats the dialogue for it
>>721180042The situation isn't comparable whatsoever since Radiance exists in a Dream while Grand Mother Silk is an actual real life being on the same plane of existence.
>>721180685Lace's misunderstanding is what freed Hornet at the start
i have seen it preached as fact that the weavrs rebelled because they felt cheated, being told they were divine/pale beings before learning they were just spiders on steroidsis that mentioned on a super obvious entry i missed?
>>721180685Lace is the one who freed Hornet in the intro. Lace has been driven by her contrarianism towards Grandma Silk from the start.
>>721180883First Sinner cutscene
>>721180719I wonder if there will be anything about that cut Pale King crest in the future.
>>721162796blah blah weavers silk religion bad blahthe core of the story is woman drama. GMS mad because she wants to be a mom, Lace mad because she wants mom to pay more attention to her. this is what drives nearly all of the plot in Silk Song
>>721177652The Pious Isamu in Whispering Vaults does talk about the Citadel being "simple stone" at some point, so the Citadel was definitely once much less opulent
>>721180802They both show that in keeping with genre convention trying to lock an ancient divine power up in a box and declaring it solved forever never works.And honestly the Weavers at least realized their plan would require constant additional effort whereas PK's plan was intended as a one-and-done.
>>721170445Sex
>>721180761It's when you refuse its wish.>"Pale It, you would reject the role? Are you not tamed, bound by Masters? You would know... obedience is essential. Recall the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher..."
All this lore tells me is that female higher beings are fucking retardedEven white lady needs to wrap herself up in bondage gear because she wants to breedWe need another example of a male higher being to see if theyre just as dumb or if Pale Chad is an exception
>>721179076Knight gets to hit those???
>>721181131I'm thinking they're descendants of the ancient civilization.
>>721180297>it became a scam where the bugs had to offer their immortal soulsI don't recall this bit.
>>721181450Corrupt your soul with silk to make you a slave who's immortal and has to work forever like a servitor from wh40k
>>721180037That's the reason I don't follow the interpretation Silk wanted the wesvers just to prolong Lace's existance, it would make Lace just too retarded.
>>721181225PK is absolutely a dipshit. He didn't even try to produce a single normal heir and basically lucked out that he ended up with Hornet while sacrificing all his other children.
>>721181225The giant dude in Hallow Knight who knew about the Wyrm/Pale King might be a Pale One tooOr he's just a ridiculously powerful mortal bug
>>721181506That was the bugs of their own accord using it to solve their health issues.
>>721179371Where do you find this? Steel Soul shit?
>>721181506That's not the Weaver's doing and has nothing to do with keeping GMS imprisoned.
>>721181583>>721181632The underworks literally say that a bug's highest calling is immortal service, and your ultimate reward for a pious life is immortality so you can work and never tire to keep Pharloom eternal. That's the whole reason they were mass injecting themselves in Whiteward using Weaver silk. That's all the cult is founded on.
>weavers travel to the abyss in the diving bell>"man this goop wants to eat us and I dunno I kinda wanna let it?"Shame we didn't encounter any voided Weaver remnants.
>>721181225>Even white lady needs to wrap herself up in bondage gear because she wants to breedI think I'm stupid, I didn't even remember that. It's AWFULLY similar to Grand Mother Silk's motivation.So basically male Pale Beings want to dominate and create kingdoms while female Pale Beings just desperately want to fuck and reproduce and leave offspring at all costs.The only difference between White Lady and GMS is that GMS is physically not capable of having children, so she made due with adopting spiders and creating fake life out of Silk.
>>721181506>>721181710In whiteward the surgeon are normal bugs, not weaver, it's never implied that was a weaver plan.
>>721181632Indirectly it had to do with keeping her sealed, as they were trying to extend life to keep the Citadel music/singing going to keep GMS asleep
>>721181571It's stated that pale beings specifically can't resist the urge to try to rule. Bardoom's probably a god tier bug but not a pale one.
>>721181225Unn seemed nice. The Grey Mourner seemed sane but kind of a neet.Bardoom was a little off, I don't really trust him
>>721179805>It's funny how Hornet thinks Pharloom is such a shithole that in the Red Memory when she confronts the White Lady she says "yeah, you and dad were right the whole time" KEKI think this has more to do with Hornet realizing the nature of Pale Beings that aren't her dad/white lady. The Pale King and the White Lady were looking for a way to give bugs the ability to worship if they chose to do so, while the Radiance would force worship no matter what it cost to get their devotion, including their free will.
>>721181804It's part of the religion they founded, and they're ultimately responsible for the bugs acting in the most logical method to achieve the doctrine they were taught.
They fucked up by not showing The Pale King in Red Memory.Faggot game about mommy is faggot.
>>721181710The weaver's scattered immediately after putting GMS to sleep fearing reprisal. The only one that remained got caught by the bugs and locked in The Slab.
>>721182021Bro Pale king is dead. his soul is dead. his essence is dead. there's no pale king anymore
>>721182030see >>721181960
>>721182021>They fucked up by not showing The Pale King in Red Memory.>Faggot game about mommy is faggot.We had the father and son game already, plus who knows what we get in the DLCs. Don't be a baby.
>>721181225Uhhh bro your Nightmare King Grimm?Literally the chillest motherfucker and only ransacks dead kingdoms.>female higher beingsImpulsive and insane.>male higher beingsKino and based.
>>721182021He was forced to fuck a spider hag to save his kingdom, why would he give even an iota of a shit about the devil spawn offspring of that horror?
>>721182021Sniggers probably didn't have the power to manifest a real god even in a memory. They killed themselves just pulling a Weaver and the White Queen.
>>721181564Assuming pale beings and Wyrms specifically are immortal, maybe producing offspring is something out of the norm for them. Something that always stranged me about HK is how outside of the vessels and the truce with Herrah, having a heir was at no point something the Pale King considered.
>>721176849bare and unadorned
>>721181960>It's part of the religion they foundedIt's not. They fled and bugs eventually moved into the abandoned Citadel making use of what they found there.
>>721181960Not really, the bugs perverting their doctrines and creating abominations in their search for eternal lives, even if using their religion as an excuse, isn't their responsability.
>>721182147>he give even an iota of a shit about the devil spawnShe has saws now.
>>721182139>Uhhh bro your Nightmare King Grimm?yeah this the nightmare heart despite being called a nightmare is comically non-threatening or evil
>>721182139That fucker enslaves bugs too, just to prolong its own life
>>721181564>PK is absolutely a dipshit. He didn't even try to produce a single normal heirWhy would he? He's a Higher Being. He's expected to live forever.>and basically lucked out that he ended up with Hornet while sacrificing all his other children.Hornet was only born as part of the PK's bargain with one of the dreamers. His other children were just his last ditch desperate attempt to create powerful but empty creatures that could contain the Radiance, but none of them were ever intended to be 'heirs' not even Hornet.
>>721182221>>721182270No. The entirety of the Citadel's modern religion as a music-making engine is Weaver doing. The construction, the government structure, the faith, all of it. Keep Granny Sleeping Forever was the goal, and you can't just tell your brainwashed servants "become immortal slaves if you want to get into heaven" and then act surprised when they try doing that with the readily-available tools that let them do it.
>>721182293>comically non-threatening or evilYou don't remember the guy who was mind-controlled to be part of the Troupe? It's very clearly another cult situation where random bugs are swept up into worship, made to harvest flame, and sent off to die to spread the Nightmare to other kingdoms.
>>721182431The bugs found a colossal machine and worshiped it.
>>721182374>"I just won't have any heirs and live forever">doesn't do thatYeah that's major dipshit behavior.
>>721182462>>721182302Lesser bugs will always kneel to higher beings. Like who cares if they're coerced or mindcontrolled to serve him? Shit's no different from everyone else.At least Grimm never goes out of his way to fuck shit up for everyone.
>>721182541No lol, this was doctrine they were taught when GMS took over with her weaver army in tow.
>>721182147Hornet is literally his daughter in every way
>>721182543If PK succeded in containing the Infection, he'd continue to live forever. If he failed and died, having heirs would make no difference since the kingdom would crumble and the heirs would either die or get infected or rule over nothing.
>>721182021Hornet would have no memory of Pale King since she (seems) to have grown up in the bee hive after Herrah took the nap.
On a moral standpoint, can we even blame higher beings for wanting worship? I mean, it's in their biology, its their instinct. I feel like Pale King actually tried to make it work. Hornet can resist it but probably because she's only a demigod
>>721182626Post evidence.
>>721182021Hornet spent a little bit with her mom and then was shipped off to the Hive until she was powerful enough to become a hobo roaming the kingdom.As far as we know she's never even stepped foot into the White Palace, much less seen her father in person.
>>721182431Disagree woth you but don't hve really any definitive proof it went my way or yours, so will avoid dragging this further.
>>721182737Snails telling you straight up that GMS bodied everyone in the land to build her kingdom, and then all the bugs thereafter worshiping the weavers as demigods.
>>721182728Who knows what the Pale King was up to when he was still a Wyrm. Something that set him on the path of shedding his godlike body for something more mortal.
>>721182728Worship was natural, the issue was selfish arrogance.
>>721182728Hornet's got the urge but also the life experience not to heed it.
>>721182829Did you not finish silksong or something?
They fucked up by not adding a deeper pre-citadel civilisation level to the lore. Whole of Pharloom feels like creationism. Like it was a made a few weeks ago.
>>721182110"This ashen place is grave of Wyrm. Once told, it came to die. But what is death for that ancient being? More transformation methinks.">B-b-but the Godseeker couldn't find himLike it's the obligation of a king to answer the call of every has-been stuck-up mummy motherfucker showing up at the doorstep of his old house to beg for his attention.
>>721183110I did, why
>>721182875The Snails are subversives who want the kingdom to fall to the void but are forced by their nature to cleave to Hornet.
>>721183170Did you explore the whole map?
>>721183170What do you mean? The area was home to multiple cultures like the coral crust guys, the ants, the bush bugs in what would become Bilewater..
>>721182829>>721183228Red Memory has a White Palace section.
>>721183170We know the bugs before GMS really loved making bellsSo they had a robust industry for metalworking
>>721183228We can see Hornet in palace clothes inside the white palace bowing to the white lady. She still probably never saw him anyways though
>>721183297t. voidsnail shitter. day of the escargot soon.
>>721182875Wich doesn't prove every part of the religion is theirs (the citadel unadorned and made of stone).
>>721168094Phantom was a discarded prototype. Useless except as a proof-of-concept for Lace.
>>721183338>Coral crust guysWhat the flying fuck were these australians smoking man.
>>721183429The fact that the bug you're quoting calls it Pharloom and not whatever the fuck name the Nameless Village had at the time is how you know it was established after GMS took over. All that shows is that it was the Weavers who turned it into Hive Tertium to keep GMS asleep through the power of heavy industry.
>>721170489>>721171469We have no clue why Silk was capturing the Weavers. My guess is it was a mixture of lashing out for their betrayal and wanting to have them by her side once again, rather than caring about their silk.
>>721183426That's pretty rude, one of the only things we know about the Pale King is that he was actually a decent dad (TO HIS LIVING CHILDREN LMAO). One can say that it's why things got that bad.
>>721183192He was screwing around with the Void besides the Vessels like the Kingsmould/Collector, and the one thing we see can kill Pale Ones is Void
>>721171847>his only crime is not genociding moths hard enough.He loved individuality and free will too deeply to do that.
Why does Silksong lore feel so much like an amateurish fan-fiction bros. There's none of the confidence that the loredrops in HK are delivered with.
>>721174765No she didn't. She is worse than Queen Marika.
>>721162796I won't play this jew game but this made me cum along with the other TF ending
>>721183537Do we know the land didn't have a name before GMS unified it? Also I have a lot of doubts about the statue and the citadel, considering it's pretty similar to the statues who ask you the songs, and nothing about the cogworks aesthetic bears any resemblance to the tech the weavers use usually, like for the weavenest, to the point Hornet can repair the Silkshot recreating the original model, while the 12th architect will alter it.
>>721183887All the good ideas were in the first game, a sad but not uncommon fate
>>721183192>But what is death for that ancient being? More transformation methinks.It's clearly referring to the Pale King's transformation from wyrm to bug, anon. And that was the Pale King willingly changing into a different form, that's not the same as being killed. The Pale King died in the palace he tried to hide in the dream, you literally find and absorb the Kingsoul you find on his body.If Higher Beings could perpetually just NO U whenever something kills them then Hollow Knight is completely pointless since the Radiance should just be able to reincarnate.The Pale King is dead. The story would be massively cheapened if he just pissed off somewhere else.
>>721171847But the moths liked the pale king, that's why the radiance was having an autismo attack. She was forgotten even by her own tribe.
>>721183942It wouldn't have a unified name like "Pharloom" considering it wasn't united to begin with. That was the name GMS gave it.
>>721183887because hollowknight didn't have ROBOTS CRABS and BIRDS in the VATICAN
>>721177151We're told pretty much upfront that GMS was behind the ousting of the other rulers and lesser gods like Nyleth. And she's continuously referenced as the one who was actually calling the shots at all times when Pharloom was actually running pre-Weaver betrayal.
>>721178879>Grandma Silk is more sympathetic thoughEhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that's questionable.
>>721183887What do you mean by that? I think Silksong is really fun with its lore.Difference is it's more interested in Hornet's story than Pharloom which serves more as a backdrop for her own development.Meanwhile the Knight is so explicitly tied to PK and THK that discovering the fate of Hallownest is discovering your own origins so it makes sense the lorebonbs hit harder.One of the best writing I've seen in the entirety of Hollow Knight is whenever Hornet talks to an NPC that knows she's part wyrm. The way they explore godhood abd how Hornet is a demi-god is really interesting.
>>721183992Wyrm are able to see the future, the King should've seen it coming. The Kingsoul you find in the Dream Palace means nothing. You politely ask the shamans to give you their soul to trap Silk and they're completely fine afterward. Clearly, not all Higher Beings are created equals.
>>721183613He was a dad to the vessel, probably because it was a child of him and his mate. Hornet was a bastard child with filthy spider blood
>>721184378What is Hornet's "development" exactly? The collection of powerups? She's nice and helpful to everyone all along.
>>721182374>>721182158How did the Pale King die anyways? We just find his corpse in the dream and I don't remember any other details
>>721183887Because it hinges on a speaking protagonist and tons of NPCs. Many such cases.
>>721184427I see it like as her reconciling with her own nature and looking past her god knows how many centuries of service watching over Hallownest.
>>721184214>And she's continuously referenced as the one who was actually calling the shots at all times when Pharloom was actually running pre-Weaver betrayalWell yes, but it really doesn't seem like she was doing any of that for herself. Seems far more likely her only motivation was seeing her daughter's wishes fulfilled and they've had a massive superiority complex and desired to stand above all the, in their eyes, lesser bugs.
>>721184449he probably lost all hope and gave up on life
>>721184378nigga hornet talks to everyone like she's working retail. you are implanting personality into digital shapes because their drawings are bamboozling your mind into thinking they are infants deserving of care.
>>721182021Motherless behavior
>>721184449From grief at his plans going to shit/sacrificing his beloved son for nothing and/or because there's void corruption in his throne room and private workshop.
>>721181225Unn seems completely nice. White Lady was also smart enough to seal herself because she knew her instincts would cloud her judgement, we have no idea what Nyleth was like before GMS fucked everything up but she might not have been too bad either.Really, it's just the Radiance and Silk who are utterly awful.
>>721184691>Really, it's just the Radiance and Silk who are utterly awful.Which is bad because they're two of the most powerful ones
>>721184691>>721181225The Radiance isn't a Pale Being though. It's just a manifestation of moth worship
>>721182139The Nightmare Heart brainwashed people into the Troupe to sustain itself. It is incredibly evil. Just very cordial through Grimm and not a problem if your kingdom isn't a dying husk.
>>721184449>the Abyss broke down the barrier (lighthouse) that kept it contained>the Palace is hidden in a bug body that's very near to the entrance of the Abyss>the bug body is seeping with Void>even though the Palace is bright and luminous white, its throne room is so dark that the Knight turns on his lantern>the Kingsmoulds guarding the room are all dead with Void leaking out of them>Void particles are rising from the ground around the Pale King's body, dark smoke similar to the smoke in the Abyss is rising in the backgroundWhat do you think killed him? Which entity/substance in these games consistently keeps killing Higher Beings? Which entity/substance would have a legitimate reason to lash out at the Pale King?
>>721183887The game uses an obscene amount of ellipsis. They give everything this stuttering, insecure quality. 99% of the sneedolin dialogue is some combination of "we loved... they lied... so much sleepy... and the silk too..."
>>721184829>The Nightmare Heart brainwashed people into the Troupe to sustain itselfBugs instinctively worship higher beings.
>>721184449We don't even know if he's deadYeah, he experimented with Void which is anathema to his kind, but it took essentially an entire sea of it to kill Radiance and Silk. The King had barely a few bottles of it lying around in his house. For his most ambitious project he dumped all the test subjects in the Abyss and let the successful one come up to him rather than go down there. There's simply nothing in Hallownest that could pose a threat to him. There's no mention at all that any kind of strength he possessed was waning. His kingdom was on a decline but there's no indication that it would actually pose a threat to his own life. Really, the most reasonable explanation is that he just left. Changed form again and went off somewhere else to repeat the cycle, as this is apparently what Pale Beings are driven towards.
>>721184427>She's nice She's cordial at most with the vast majority of people. Not rude, but not overly polite either.
>>721184928Nta but one of the troupe is literally trying to free the troupe from their enslavement.
>>721183887>false assumption mixed with ragebait conclusionCan you fuck off?Dishonest little shit.
>>721171847HE UNJUSTLY BANNED LIFEBLOOD
Hollow Knight 6: Exoskeleton Hornet's great-granddaughter, Shrimp, seeks to save the doomed Kingdom of Clapstan from the mythical flood (which is actually an anti-pest chemical wash delivered by a human just above their mound)
>>721184930>We don't even know if he's deadhe's ten million percent deadhe's so utterly and irrevocably dead not even a memory of him will appear in the Godseeker's ritual
Is white lady a higher being? The obvious answer is yes. But unlike literally every other higher being she didn't seek worship?? One's like Unn and Radiance created bugs for worship, beings like Pale King and Silk uplifted bugs for worship. Yet there's no idols or anything for the white lady. The bugs of hallownest never mention her besides just 'the queen'. The kingdom is attributed to the pale king.
>>721184930I would think he became far weaker when he shed his wyrm form, but yes, we don't even know wether he truly died.I think he did, for what it's worth.
are snails the jews of this universe
>>721184930>The King had barely a few bottles of it lying around in his house.The King also parked his palace right near the entrance to the void sea, the void sea that tricked its keeper into turning the lighthouse off.
>>721184824She isn't, yes. But Pale Beings aren't the only class of Gods. And really, it's hard to use Silk alone as a benchmark for female Pale Beings because the White Lady is just fine and actively fought against her own instincts to begin with. Everything about GMS just points to her being naturally terrible.>It's just a manifestation of moth worshipThe Radiance predates the moths and explicitly created them.
What was her major malfunction?
>>721174157is that not what widow is? what's widow's deal anyway
>>721185091>t.
who freed hornet at the beginning of the game
>>721185219She worships Silk and wants to offer Hornet to her, it also seems someone, wich might be other weavers, stopped her silk gland.
>>721185291Lace. She did it out of spite towards GMS.
>>721184824Not all higher beings are pale beings.
>>721185291>who freed hornet at the beginning of the gamethe butterfly
>>721185091Lifeblood reminded hornet of the infection BITCH. That's how terrible it is. It's a good thing it was banned forever from glorious hallownest
>>721185112White Lady is a Pale Being.Every Pale Being is a Higher Being ("God") but not every Higher Being ("God") is a Pale Being.We only know Wyrms desire to rule, the only Wyrm-type Pale Being we know is Pale King.White Lady has the insatiable desire to breed. Reproduction for her is what rulership is for the Pale King, it's her reason for existence. White Lady has no desire to be worshipped or rule other bugs, she just wants to fuck and leave offspring.
>>721185174Yeah but the Palace itself isn't like, submerged or anything. It looks like it simply crumbled from being abandoned by everyone
>>721184542GMS fully believed that the Weavers should have been on top of literally everyone else and be exalted above all other life. It wasn't just "fulfilling their wishes", it was "EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS BELONGS TO ME AND MY CHILDREN, YOU WILL BEND THE KNEE OR DIE". In her eyes, if you weren't worshiping the very ground she and her kids walked on every second of every day, you were less worthy of existence than fodder.
>>721185291When I played the game without looking at the internet I was convinced that the Weavers, that had been physically hunted down and killed, lived on in subtle ways through the silk itself. From the surviving weaver graves from which Hornet gains her silkskills TM, it is obvious that some part of them live on. Online, however, there is very little mention of this.
someone explain the nameless town on the surface? they explicitly aren't influenced by grandma, but they seem to talk about seduction and regret and whatever. also, is the village proof that bugs don't need a higher being to be sentient and can live on the surface just fine?
>>721185475We have no reason to believe that. None whatsoever.Infact it seems very much so not the case considering she happily sacrifices herself to keep Lace alive at the end.
>>721185456The White Palace is hidden in that Kingsmould. The one that looks like a void tentacle jumped into his brain.
>>721185291A butterfly, it might be Lace's, it might be driven from the grudges from whiteward, it might be dumb luck or another reason I can't think of right now.
>>721185291>white butterfly frees Hornet>each time you meet Lace there's white butterflies following her needle/pin as she waves it aroundhmmmHMMMI WONDERRRRRRRRBUT THAT'S JUST A THEORY A GAME THEORY !
>>721185475Where did you get that idea? Rulership and Pharloom itself doesn't seem to mean anything to GMS at all
>>721184889thisit's beyond obvious the void got to himno idea wtf anyone else is smoking here
>>721185584Yes, anon. She "loves" her children (keep in mind she still had them hunted down for leaving her), but that love is not extended to anyone else. The entire point of Act 3 is her being wholly willing fo damn Pharloom and every soul in it if it keeps Lace alive just a little bit longer.>>721185769It's outright mentioned that GMS was the "only ruler" Pharloom ever had at its height.
>Hallownest>standard western-inspired kingdom>Pharloom>industrial theocracy with loads of eastern-inspired motifs>Nightmare Troupe>travelling circus>Land of Storms/Godseekers>mix between maybe ancient bronze age cultures>Ancient Civilization>???>City of Steel>seems to be middle eastern-ish a bit?What we thinking bros?
>>721185662It's for sure Lace, she's the only one who would both know about Hornet's capture and have motivation to free her to fuck with her mom's/the citadel's plans.
>>721185887>eastern-inspired motifsNigga it's blatant Roman Catholicism.
>>721185406Hornet implied like herself, Silk also wants to be the top dog and everyone who knew about higher beings awaited the moment they would meet and inevitably fight for the title. Doesnt that mean Silk wants to rule and thats why she eradicated every other leader? Or was she just thinking about worship? Is pharloom even considered a kingdom I actually don't remember
So... GREYroot? Not WHITE or BLACK? What is it trying to do? Bring about a new higher being?It can't possibly be a good destination.On a separate note, I wonder what would even a simple mammal, bigger than the Wyrms, be considered in the HK universe.
>>721172269It was made of SILKThat was the entire setup of the game, Hornet saying that she's seen life woven from silk before and it acts like the life that it is imitating and has all the same properties, but it is fragile and doesn't last long. Weavers are just THAT good that they can do this and Hornet knew that it would only last a bit, but it didn't need to last very long. She just needed the memory to link to the silk so she could weave it correctly.
>>721185873>It's outright mentioned that GMS was the "only ruler" Pharloom ever had at its height.Yes anon, because she was the one supplying the Weavers with all their power.That's made EXTREMELY clear. Infact it's what leads to them rebelling in the first place, they were arrogant as all fuck and did not enjoy being dependent on a "mother" that is not even related to her, they got into their heads that they were mere playthings of a Higher Being when they realized their origin, but that doesn't mean it was actually the case. GMS' love for her children seems extremely genuine, there's no reason she would give up everything for Lace otherwise.
>>721185887I could see the city of steel looking like some weird hightech persian city
>>721171462I don't think any bugs birth a single child at a time though.
Wonder why some weavers chose to escape? The ones who remained were enough to subdue silk
>>721185837>It took an incredibly unlikely series of events and trekking through literally all the kingdom to actually get to a point where you can use the Void in a way that actually permanently defeat Radiance>How did the same thing happen to the Pale King, who has the advantage of not actually being imprisoned and can choose to move?>Idk it just did, maybe the tide was super high that day and he got stuck in, or maybe the two mobs you see next to him snuck up on him and injected their void seed deep into his mask holes
>>721186216They probably didnt want to control silk or have to deal with the citadel
>>721186063If it was made from Silk then the Grand Mother and Lace should also be void repellent.
>>721186036>I wonder what would even a simple mammal, bigger than the Wyrms, be considered in the HK universe.judging by the size of white roses and raindrops relative to Hornet a rat is probably smaller than the Mite or Flutter Mite
>>721186028There is no mention of the White Lady ever desiring worship in HK.There is no mention of GMS ever desiring worship in SS.GMS subdued the tribes and built up Pharloom after creating her daughters, her daughters had an absolutely ridiculous superiority complex, and GMS is willing to go through hell itself and finally give up her life in a heartbeat to save one of her children - that's all the facts we have. The rest is all inference.
The conductors knew GMS was going to wake up and fuck everyone up. But how?
>>721186216They probably knew her being subdued was only temporary and wanted to get the hell out before she got out.
>>721185837people just pretend to be retarded because they're curious about the PK
>>721186375They were the ones tasked with keeping the songs to keep GMS asleep and sealed alive, they probably knew more about the reality of things than anyone else in the Citadel after the Weavers left
The most kino lore in the game is how despite the game endlessly gassing up the peak of Pharloom, it turns out this massive clusterfuck of a kingdom was just below a humble little town with no name.Like how Hallownest was below Dirtmouth but even more kino.
>>721185212BladderMommy issues derived from the perceived devouring mother archetype but, in reality, the one who fell victim to it was Phantom, Lace was free to do whatever she wanted but she CHOSE to guard Pharloom out of a sense of gratitute, which, in time, turned into bitterness.
>>721186074I never said they were her playthings anon. I said that Silk flat-out does not and never cared about anything that weren't her kids. Ruling Pharloom only mattered insofar as it put her kids on top.I also don't think it's ever implied that the Weavers were the ones signing off on all the horrible shit that went down with Pharloom at its peak. Or at least, not all of them were complicit in GMS's attempts to ensure Weaver supremacy.
>>721186216They were probably the sensible ones, like Herrah seemed to be
>>721186496>>721186375The conductors were the leaders of the nonweaver bugsOf course they knew shit
Pk died of void, but void in the og hollow knight was also manifestation of regrets so i guess one could say PK died of regret or void and they'd both be correct
>>721186363>bigger than the WyrmsPale King's cocoon spawned several screens worth of length.A Border Collie would be biiger than that, not a fucking rat.
Best character out of both games? Mask Maker.
>>721186554>I never said they were her playthings anonI didn't mean to imply you did, that's the kind of thoughts that were running in the Weaver's heads when they rebelled.I also don't think the Weavers necessarily did any of the really bad shit, it's possible, but we don't really know for sure. I just think that everything GSM did is ultimately to fulfill a motherly role for the Weavers and later on Lace. There's no indication that she desires to be worshipped or rule anything that I can see, it's all for the sake of her children.
>>721186874But it's a different dude each time
So what ultimately are the implications of the Weaver Queen ending? And the one cut ending which was datamined? https://youtu.be/RUbWuGGsIus?si=P7eJO1c5exL2_FC7
Since the pilgrims weren't using the bellways anyway, why trap the bell beast in the silk? maybe it ate a silk heart so it was some sort of accident?
>>721186508The most kino lore is that both Hallownest and Pharloom are located within a small, overgrown backyard in suburban Adelaide.
I'm stupid I literally just realized the Snails aren't giving us THEIR soul they're giving us their COLLECTION of soul energy.
>>721186508this legit makes me want to see what the hk universe looks like in a world map
>>721183887Team cherry is an 80/20 split like all group projects. Ari is the 80 and William is the 20. Ari handles the art and William handles the bulk of the writing. William is probably more interested in his new kids than HK and it shows. Also Ari just probably wants to keep adding shit and its up to William to half assedly try to make all the pieces fit in universe.
>>721186921But then where does the higher being territorial shit fit in the narrative? Even hornet suffers from it even though she has no reason to succumb to it
>>721186921Yeah, my point is that whilst Silk HERSELF might not be wanting blind worship or anything, she fully expects that her children receive such things. She might not care if you don't give her the adequate amount of faith or piety, but she'd have you tortured to death if you didn't kowtow the necessary number of times from her kids being in the same general hemisphere.
>>721187194Taking the escalator up the mountain they're supposed to climb for religious reasons, probably goes against their faithIt could have been Widow fucking things up
>Better a child spun mad than none.>Better a child spun fragile than none.>Better a child spun pure than them.>One to wish our waking.>From our Silk, a child born loyal.
>>721183170Bilewater's natives have made their hatred of the Citadel the very essence of their being
>>721187451post your tits
I wonder if the witch is a plant like the White Lady
>>721187659you'll understand if you ever have children
>>721187259Hornet is half Wyrm. She's the Pale King's daughter. Presumably it comes from him.
How do (you) feel about Embrace the Void being canon?
>>721185212Silk issue.
Any lore in the hunter's journal? All I learned is that hornet likes fluffy bugs
Was GILF low-key a weather god? She managed to make a snowy mountain exist on top a dried out coral reef, which in turn exists above a wind-blasted mountain pass.
>>721187061Seems like what would happen if Silk subsumed Hornet rather than the other way around
>>721187851Kek
>>721187801>How do (you) feel about Embrace the Void being canon?Ambivalent, because it's not clear whether it's canon. The ending for Silksong deliberately keeps it ambiguous whether it's Embrace the Void or Dream No More.
>>721187451Headcanon begone. Or is it Needlolin dialogue?
>>721188036Lace's silk heart. Don't rush to the top and collect it, let the texts play out at the top of the screen.
>>721187451team cherry really thought they were making something special with that word vomit lol>dude it's about PARENTHOOD!!!i have a son, if he was a total psychopath i'd rather he wasn't born
>>721187451Oh yeah. loyal...
The heroes of Pharloom and Hornet chilling,
>>721187451>One to wish our wakingWas the purpose of making the silk kids was just to want them to wake her up or something since the weavers just left
William got too parentpilled after having three kids.
>>721188036That's what you get when you don't instantly rush to the top during Lace's Silk Heart dialogue.It's the only dialogue that's clearly from Grand Mother Silk's perspective in the entirety of Silksong.
>>721188461Doesn't really explain making a kid just to force them to be a janny. The story in general is pretty lame. Motive is pretty lackluster across the board.
>>721188461A big part of being a mother is wanting your kids to love you, it's only natural that she'd expect a loving child to want their mom to wake up when the first go around were the Weavers who betrayed and sealed her.
should I bother with the supply quests they seem boring as fuckare they harder than than the rasher?
What if GRAND MOTHER SILK was BETRAYED and TRAPPED in the HYPERBOLIC SILK CHAMBER for ONE THOUSAND YEARS
>>721188946Only the egg and liquor
>>721188697I think they both feed into the problem. William isn't as invested and Ari just wants to make cool shit. So cohesion and world building is what gets sacrificed at the altar of letting Ari run wild cramming more and more disjointed ideas in. Maybe they have a plan for more narrative in the DLC(s) but nothing in the base game gives any indication that would be the case.
>>721188697The first game was about fatherhood. Just less in your face because knight couldn't talk
>>721188946Far easier since you have no time limit on any of them so you can chill and abuse tools to clear all obstacles from a distance.Some of the Act 2 ones disappear in Act 3 so if you want a full Completed Wishes list you should do them, if you don't care about that you can skip them since the rewards are all garbage for the effort you need to put in.
>>721189042this is basically the plot of the game and I'm mad now, thanks anon >:(
>>721189065Are you just making up shit in your head lmao
>>721188946They actually count to the number of quests you need to do in order to unlock act 3, and they're repeatable, so you can farm them if you don't feel like dealing with other quests.
Reminder that Sharpe is a backer boss.They're obligated to add him.So the first DLC will be steelshit.
>>721189230He is. His other avenues of shitposting have vanished so this is what he's reduced to.
>>721189236>>721189105>>721189051thank youalso, posted in the wrong thread, my badtell me about shakra, why is she so anime?
>>721189456The Elder Who tribe
Im having post-silksong depression
>>721188036it's giant text that pops up while you're inside Lace's silk hearthow do you even miss this stuff
>>721189552Dlc soon broTrust
>>721189553I actually read it, but it's pretty hard to remember everything. It's been almost two weeks since I've beaten Lace 2Does Silk even sing with the Needlolin?
>>721171571>no reward for collecting every relic in the gamewhat a ripoff
they should fuck and have kidsthey are only half-siblings
>>721189042lmao
>>721190158Do not fuck the void. Why not settle down with a nice retired shrine guardian like Seth?
>>721190158Can Hornet even bear children?She said she mated before but there's no mention of her having any children.Maybe she's can't have kids, just like the normal Weavers.
Mama Silk is a better character than RadianceRadiance is literally just about revenge against the Pale King
>>721190397GMS is Radiance and Pale King in one.She's cooler than Radiance but nowhere near as cool as the Pale King, that makes her less cool than the HK Higher Beings.
>>721190359Bro weavers can have children. In fact we have proof of at least 4 generations
>>721190497PK isn't an antagonist broA dumbass according to his own daughter but not an antagonist
>>721190689I thought they were infertile for some reason, wasn't that a thing in HK?Or maybe it was just Herrah that thought she was infertile and needed the Pale King's powerful Pale sperm?
>>721190359She meant mates as a friend. she's australian after all
>"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.>We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."This Rune Harp implies that the Weavers passed down the duty of keeping GMS sealed to the bugs of the Citadel at some point.
>>721190869Yeah, they introduced the whole singing part of the religion as a means to keep GMS lulled to sleep and weak.
>>721190840The real reason they can't reproduce it's because they're all female. but they can interbreed
>>721171446Sadly it still works and says same thing even tho recorder is broken
>>721190869>>721190970This makes me wonder when and how exactly she spun lace and phantom
>>721190158Ghost only fucks Higher Beings now. The Radiance, GMS. Hornet is not the same pedigree unfortunately.
I know its just a horse girl thin but I feel it's has some really easy lewd innuendo for you pervert types.
>>721190840They can conceive but giving birth is dangerous and painful for Weavers
>>721191131Phantom might have been during the Weaver's time since she's far older than Lace and was created to guard the Citadel from intruders. She doesn't really seem to be recognized as a "daughter" by GMS at allLace was definitely created after GMS had been betrayed by the Weavers and was already asleep, the dialogue during her Silk Heart section makes it very obvious
>>721191252>hardboneEehhehehe
>>721172985woman moment
>>721190869The Pale King was right. TOTAL WEAVER DEATH.
>>721172985They realized they were adopted.
Hey has that one guy who spent years insisting that the game was going to be a prequel really aggressively ever apologize or did he just quietly dissappear.
>>721191851They always quietly disappear.
>>721172985>be Weaver>God tells you you are her child and divine and perfect>develop superiority complex because you are God's child and look down on all the common mortal bugs>turns out you were just a common bug with some Silk injected into it after all>whole world comes crashing down around you as you realize you aren't anything special and really no different from the common bugs you looked down upon so muchImagine you always thought you were white and strong and beautiful and you become a racist little fuck thinking you are so much better than all the colored folk, but you eventually find you actually are a little brown indian dude that had their skin painted white by the white woman that larp'd as your mom and you actually were one of the colored folks you thought were so much inferior to yourself all along
>Wormways becomes a lifeblood hellscapeSo is all of Pharloom just fucked now, if it spreads?
>>721187451>lace was neither loyal nor seemed to wish for GMS to wake upWell, that was another L for GMS.
If anything happens to this little Sherma bug, I will kill every single living being in Pharloom and then myself.
>>721192108Perfect starting point for a DLC wouldn't you say?
>>721192140He'll be fine, nothing bad ever happens to jolly little guys who sing
Anyone else think there should've been another zone in between the Lace fight and the final area with GMS?Something where you really have the CLIMB and put in maximum effort with platforming, with a lot of heavy wind and precipitation just to hammer home that you've climbed higher than ever before. Something to give that feeling of finality. To me the Cradle never felt like I'm at the top of the Citadel.
>>721190869>Yes! We did it, we put our god to sleep and now we can become the new rulers>Wait, our bloods getting diluted and we can't keep up?>Quick lets force these bugs to keep it going as long as possible while we fuck offWhat the FUCK is their problem? Why does Hornet never call the weavers out?
Actually, since GMS was being kept asleep, why was she able to wake up so easily once Hornet challenged her? Hornet didn't even do anything to release her.
I want to play as a snail in the next game.
>>721192379She stopped the music box
>>721192379She was already on the verge of waking up, that's why the Haunting has been getting so strong.Then Hornet came along, murdered a lot of the bugs still singing to keep her asleep, and finally went up to her bed and basically screamed into her ear.
>>721192084>weavers are pajeetsokay i understand everything now
>>721192379I mean when there's a hornet in your room that tends to wake you up
>>721192272I totally agree. There should have been a final climb, then a moment of peace, an important piece of lore, then the fight with lace. The pacing was pretty damn bad I think.
Imagine the sex.
>reach Bilewater boss>beat gauntlet, wasn't that hard>dodge few boss attacks, he summons those blow dart adds that then kill mefor fuck's sake
>>721192807>Radiance>Grandma SilkVoid Given Focus is gradually acquiring a Black Souls harem
Wait what actually is the Hunter in HK?I always thought he was a Weaver for some reason but that doesn't really map now
>>721167978The best video games start with a goddess having a woman moment.
>>721192870No?
>>721192909Marika was right THOUGH
>>721192870There are no male Weavers, they are a female tribe.He appears to be some other "raised up" spider being considering his humanoid body, but we don't know what kind he is for sure.
>>721168094Lace still visits mom while Phantom willingly chooses to stay in the shitswamp and play on the pipe organs all day.
NAO~
all it takes for Hornet to wake GMS up is to walk up to her and shout GARAMAwhy doesn't Lace do this and wake her mother up? is she retarded?
>>721193064>nooooo dont mash my entire family into meatpulp and put us into jarsWoman moment.
>>721193179>willingly chooses to stay in the shitswampThat's her duty, what she has been created for.Lace's purpose is being GMS' daughter, Phantom is just a warrior stationed to keep Groal&co out of the Citadel.
>>721192807DAMN, check out her thorax.
>>721193290Lace isn't a Weaver
>Hollow Knight games are about killing godly beings because they do not conform to mortal morality>every single time this happens things only get worseWhat did TC mean by this
>>721193323If Lace is capable of rebellion, and the Weavers were also capable of rebellion, Phantom also was capable of choosing to rebel.
>>721192807Damn, Grandma has some serious birthing hipsI can not wait for all the art...
>>721193382so if a Weaver shouts GARAMA it counts, but a creature of pure silk shouts GARAMA nothing happens?bit arbitrary
>>721192807To be honest, the lack of legs isn't a dealbreaker. Where's all the MILF Silk porn?
>Lace and Hornet exchange about 12 sentences in the entire gameThey are the driving relationship and the centerpiece of the entire plot. I literally do not care about that little brat.
>>721192807Wherever i go, i must rape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFAknD_9U7cDevelopment "heaven">develop>scrap>develop>scrap>develop>scrap>throw all scraps into act 3>7 years has gone by
>>721171847Honestly, when the worst thing you can say about Pale King is sacrificing his own children for the kingdom, only to fuck up by being too good of a parent, it is saying something.>>721185091Have you seen the shit lifeblood does? It terraform and takes over the place like Radiance's infection. Plus Pale King at first allowed it before realizing how fucked up it is.
>>721193537>>721193382Lace doesn't really want to wake her mother up.She is scared of her waking up since she has a huge inferiority complex about her birth and thinks GMS would confirm her fears and prefer the last remnants of the Weavers to her.
>>721193698At the end of the day it's to further Hornet's personal story to the extent that you don't actually need Lace to be an interesting character as long as you realize what she's supposed to represent and why Hornet cares enough to save her.
>>721193737>tacks are so powerful that not even the Void Sea can pull them ini kneel...
>Hottest female characters we got recently are 3 spiders
>>721193737Damn, Horny's basically rubbing her bugussy on GMS' face
>>721194007>*four children, a child robot, and three spiders
>>721192909Marika's issues ran way deeper than a made-up daughter
>>721194007This includes Emily, right?
>>721193856If act 3 is any indication, Hornet probably thinks abandoning the kingdom after all the sacrifices he did was the worst thing, not the sacrifices themselves
Were the Weavenests all made at the same time or some made later than others?
MAMASHKA!!!!
it occurs to me that hollow knight games are basically just bioshock formula. you explore and uncover the secrets of a once fantastic city now in ruin with a megalomaniac at the top.
I killed Groal on my second try. That's what all you fags were complaining about? Unironically git gud
>>721194463It's a classic formula
>>721192807SEEKER SEEKER, MORE DIVINE BITCHES PLEASE!!https://files.catbox.moe/at6rlp.png
>Lace and Hornet are basically children
>>721194348Honestly, what else Pale King should have done?Sacrifice another bajilion of his children for another go at the failed plan?He definitely didn't want to sacrifice the population, like the Soul Masters.
>>721194584Act 1 or Act 2? There's a huge difference in difficulty here.
>>721194805Only Lace. Hornet is just a midget.
where does "weavers are just common bugs infused with silk" comes from
>>721194220Literally destroyed her own kingdom because her favorite son died (allegedly).>>721194805Hornet's a lolibaba, which is great.
>>721192807Honestly, does anyone else feels like feeding Gods to the Void is a bad idea?
>>721167070Lace isn't stupid, she saw what happened to Phantom , and understood what being replaced by Hornet meant.
>>721195012No.
>>721194916First Sinner after fight
>>721195012Void is out bro now, We just making sure he has fun and company down there.
lorewise why is she so cool?
>>721194816Sure, I was just looking at it from hornet's point of view. Your mother and siblings sacrificed, the pain from her step mom. Her dad was a god, and he fled, allowing her mentor to die as well. She saw her home and basically her entire world die. I'm not saying what he did wasn't reasonable, but I get where Hornet's coming from
>>721194916First Sinner
>>721167070>>721173093GMS wanted Hornet to serve as an ageless silk battery for LaceLace didn't realize this and assumes that GMS wants to make Hornet her daughter because Lace is mortal while Hornet is not. Thus, she tries to kill Hornet out of anger and jealousy. Lace also probably thinks Hornet has some interest in claiming the weaver throne, though we know she does not.
>>721195012We should feed some void to the gods to make things even.
>>721195064You belong in a fire ant pit.
In a few years, when the DLC comes out, I will make a mod that populates the world with useful charms and rewards.
>>721194818Act 3 I think? I think I only have like 3 or 4 bosses left to beat at most
Someone remind me, what actually happened to the Pale King in the end?
>>721195217You can't get to Act 3 without killing Groal first, so no, you are in Act 2 and have a shit tonne more to do
>>721195240Likely death, maybe he fled, my pet crazy theory is that he was captured by the City of Steel
>>721195240No one knows for sure, he's either dead or gave up his body again and fucked off
>>721194584true. If you hang out in the water it becomes the easiest boss in the game.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLp6CXLr5g8
>>721195240had a stroke when he received his electricity bill
>>721194665Nice
>>721174765>>721183898she literally did nothing wrong the weavers are at fault
>>721195012Void is just some goop that instinctively consumes soul and gods are chock full of that shit so them being nearby makes the void go nutterbutters. Once it's finishing eating it goes back to being a placid goo lake.
>>721195341>my pet crazy theory is that he was captured by the City of SteelSame. They're stingy with void for whatever reason, and Pale King did use a lot of it
>>721195339But I already killed almost all the bosses from Act 3
>>721195502To get to Act 3 you need the soul to the right of Groal's arena, and then kill GMS. How did you get that soul without killing Groal first?
>>721195369this is my favorite summary
>>721195012Higher Beings are the ones who go around causing chaos unprompted.Void just chills in its own sea by default, it doesn't actively seek out to destroy things unprompted. The only times a Void creature left the Abyss is when someone took Void and drew it out somehow.
>>721195240He spent too much time around void and got void cancer
The next game should let you travel the wasteland in between settlement. Go back and forth between like three or four pharloom sized lands as well as finding weird stuff just out there in the wastes. Open world meteoidvania.
>>721195240I believe that Silksong confirms that he is definitely 100% dead. The cause of death is vague but I think the explanation with the most evidence is that the void somehow escaped the abyss, came up through the rocks, and killed him and destroyed his whole house.
> GMS supposedly loves her children very much> Phantom relegated to blowing fartsI don't get it, is she supposed to be good , bad? "Morally gray"?
The next game will take place in the city of steel and you have to beat it in one try or rebuild the game.
>>721195825>Go back and forth between like three or four pharloom sized landsSo wait 28 years
>>721192692DO NOT RE-SEEM
>>721195658I already had the soul when I got to Groal, I reached the Groal arena from the right side.
>>721195925Phantom was a failed attempt at making a daughter
>That optional Shakra fightShe's so cool bros, but my tool spamming playstyle wasn't built for this. You don't need to beat her to get a complete save file right?
>>721170445Pharloom's head janitor
small thing I noticed watching a streamer play after I had beat the game already is that there are no enemies in the choral chambers until you run into lace, and GMS shoots strands down at the end of the cutscene. the last judge seems to just splatter everyone who tries to go inside, and with the choral chambers empty of all life, and the elevator leading down to the mainatanence area being out of repair and not working, it' seems no pilgrims every really make it inside. but there ARE bugs in the maintenance areas from before you get to the cuscene where the choral chamber gets woken up.. where did they come from?the music in choral chambers, also, doesnt start until after the cutscene. since the music is bugs singing, it again implies there were no bugs there before this.except maybe the last conductor, who we see has his little spool of silk to keep him alive.
>>721167736>Grand Mother Silk was willing to do everything and anything for Lace.And then who gives a fuck about Phantom
>>721195984I meant to the left of his arena. You can only enter his arena from the right.
>>721195240He grew too attached to the chosen Vessel. After that plan failed he realized he killed all his children for nothing, he and the White Lady grew hopeless and separated.She hid in the White Gardens and deliberately powered down, he hid the White Palace in a dream dimension hoping to hide his court from the infection.But he didn't realize the danger of the void which was basically in his backyard. Eventually the void sea in the abyss reached upwards and turned off the lighthouse that shielded the Ancient Basin from the void, and reached into the king's hidden palace in the dream.It's not explicitly shown that the Void killed the king but the in-game clues point strongly to it. Throne room is extremely dark, void particles swirling around his body, etc.
>>721195825>Open world meteoidvania.>have to travel across three fucking metroidvania's worth of content just to backtrack to unlock more content in a specific areaSounds awful, I want it.
>>721195984Wait, what event do you think Act 3 starts with?
>>721196118I think even with Last Judge there to kill people at the main entrance, The Citadel is in such disrepair that people are probably getting in via other unintended ways, like how you can skip Last Judge if you find a specific shortcut.
>>721196140Lace
>NBR incest couplecringe
>>721196038No, but you can't do the fight in act 3
>>721196038I think 100% is based on items acquired. Apparently the Liquid Lacquer delivery quest isn't part of it either, thank Wyrm.
>>721196150>he hid the White Palace in a dream dimension hoping to hide his court from the infection.I don't think that's necessarily true anymore. The palace could instead be a memory.
>>721196313so they're not letting anybody get inside. but they still need bugs to maintain everything. and we see them shoveling corpses into the furnaces in whtieward, where it's implied they're harvesting any silk out of the pilgrims which we're told all have faint strands still inside them fro their ancestors being injected. why splatter all the bugs at the door then? why not just harvest them all? do they carry the bugs inside after they get splattered? the slab, who's running that? it's still seemingly being used and ran but in terrible disrepair. there's some basic society still operating inside the citadel but we're shown that most of the place is just emptythe penitent bugs in the slab imply there are still reasons to imprison and punish bugs which at this stage of pharloom's fucked up-ness I wouldnt really understand the point. are they immune to the haunting? why not just kill them, if you're already doing that to every single pilgrim?
>>721195760>Higher Beings are the ones who go around causing chaos unprompted.>Void just chills in its own sea by default, it doesn't actively seek out to destroy things unprompted.
>>721196378Might make things a little awkward between her and Hornet>By the way, spider, I also have a sister you should meet. She lives in the great Exhaust Organ and is more faded than I am, but maybe-->We met, she begged for death, I gave it to her.>Oh I see
>>721196683He hid HIMSELF in the dream dimension. the radiance preyed on the dreams of bugs. the presence of pale beings lifts bugs up, gives them the intelligence to dream. if he removed himself, they would revert to being dumb bugs, and would not dream as much, slowing the radiance.it's also implied his presence was the reason the hollow knight wasnt hollow and failed at his task. if that was because his pale-ness gave thought to the hollow knight, or it was just being a father firgure to him, dont know. he maybe knows that other vessels are escaping the abyss, and sees that as the only chance left. but if he wants his kingdom to live, he cant be there for those vessels to interact with in any way. so he seals himself away, to die. no cost too great.
>>721196118im pretty sure the last judge lets some people through, he's a judge. Hornet has a dialogue in Bone Bottom where she suggests a pilgrim to take a weapon and he affirms that's a sin. Im pretty sure Hornet had a whole slew of "sins" that would make the judge kill her on sight. I think the other bugs that were at the entrance were sinful as well or just collateral damage.
>>721196934kek
>>721167131wait, so they picked up the pilgrims, stuffed silk in them and tossed them in the wild again? Theres a good number of pilgrims outside of the city that are mindless as well.
>>721197092lets them through to where? the grand gate leads only to an elevator that is so out of repair it breaks immediately when hornet uses it. the repair bugs are not repairing it at all, despite repairing everything else in the citadel. meaning it's pointless to repair the elevator because no one is going to be using it.
>>721197272I think the silk using society just developed on it's own and spread, people were stuffing themselves full of silk.
>>721197272The cursed silk doesn't have to be inside a bug in order to control it, it just has to reach it.>>721197407But you can't stuff yourself full of silk. You need to undergo sadistic surgeries carried out by a bug that's taught by weavers for that to happen.
>>721197406there are other gates. you can see bunches of other bridges in the background leading into the citadel.
>>721197406through the grand gate. He was just chosen to work there as security, not elevator maintenance. Its not his fault only 2 guys made the trip succesfully and didnt even ring all the bells after god knows how long.
>>721197272It's implied that the silk implantation has some genetic component. It says that descendants are suffering from the curse despite obviously not being high caste enough for them to be receiving silk injections in the citadel. The whole thing has been happening for so long that tons of bugs in Pharloom have silk inside them.
>>721196378sorry Lace, i killed your sister
>suddenly is bad???
>>721196378also why are we trying to justify GMS doing nothing wrong when she doomed Lace and Phantom to a hellish existence
>>721197780it was always bad. Dont do drugs kids>b-but its naturalNo.
>>721197827Because the Pale King did the same on an even larger scale for a plan that initially didnt even work
>>721197856WRONG
>>721197827GMS is such a shitter. In terms of high beings we've seen she's gotta be one of the worst. Pale King actually cared for his kingdom.
>>721197780>suddenlyJoni wasn't branded a heretic for nothing, and the Pale King outlawed it for a reason. And no it's not because he didn't like other Higher Beings - PK was completely fine with Unn.
>>721197827>to a hellish existenceWhat was Lace's hellish existence?
>>721197946bitch died by overdose.SAD!
>>721197092I thought that too, but the elevator to take pilgrims down to the Underworks is broke as hellNobody has gotten into the Citadel through the front way for a long time
>>721198009Being alone in a kingdom of mindcontrolled bugs, with no one to O HO HO HO at.
>>721197035One of the biggest pieces of evidence for the white palace being literally transported into a dream is the fact that the knight was able to bring the kingsoul charm into the real world. As of Silksong we know that you can bring powerful magic shit out of memories into the real world so the knight may have just done that. Getting the awakened dream nail is necessary first which requires fighting a bunch of strong warrior ghosts. Kinda similar to what Hornet does.
>>721195825>Go back and forth between like three or four pharloom sized landsThat sounds nightmarish. I'm in.
>>721198116Was somethign stopping Lace from going around exploring a bit of the outside? How frequently does she need Silk injections? She had to know the outside exists and how far away it is based on the people that were being brought it.
>>721197092Sherma is able to enter the Citadel even if you go through the Organ instead of killing the Judge and leaving the door open, so we know the Judge at least deems him worthy
So, these two are related in some way right?
>>721191851The latter. You know how schizos are when they're BTFO'd.
>>721198167yeah I agree but the point I was trying to make was that there's nothing really important in the white palace, except the pale king and the charm he has. the entire point was to put himself in the dream realm, he just brought his entire house with him.as for those flowers, they're super powerful things and maybe a memory of one is literally as powerful as a real one. but I dont see reason to believe you can bring anything you ever remembered out of a dream. also, the knight doesnt know or have memories of the kingsoul charm before going into that dream, so it's not really the same thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpPlGcq4Q3k
Next hk is an rts where you pick one of several higher beings and wage war to destroy or dominate the others and be the end boss of hk4.
>>721162796>A very salient theme in Silksong is motherhoodwhat made Team Cherry into such huge faggots to ruin their long awaited sequel with female bullshit? actual faggot game
>>721198763HK4 is going to be 4 buggas in a row: Little ghost, Hornet, Lace and PV
