>Is the leader of the top five PMC armies in the world>Uses his manpower to reconstruct GW and gain control of the SOP>Makes Snake go through the trouble of destroying the Patriots' AIs, nearing killing himself in the microwave hall>After doing so, we come to learn that it was actually what Liquid (who we now learn is Ocelot LARPing as Liquid) wanted all along even though he could've easily done it himself thus making the entire plot of the game some theater kid's wish fulfillment fantasy culminating in him fighting his best friend's clone while shirtless and smooching him on the cheekBravo Kojima!
>>721204353Ocelot being an unhinged lunatic obsessed with big boss has been central to the plot of a majority of MGS games
>>721204460Only after 3 when they made him a fag
>>721204460It's more like his mother's legacy was passed down to Big Boss and he wants to see it manifest.
>>721205142His mothers legacy was just world peace, not endless global war. Did Ocelot ever even know who his parents were?
>>721204353And that's why Ocelot is the best character
I am baffled continuously with how the simplest of plots are ungraspable by brainlet retards.Three collective patriots system could effectively predict most actions of most archetypes of people starting from mgs2 ending, effectively becoming a weak Laplace's demon or at minimum just a predictive algorithm on a scale of entire humanity. If Ocelot (or liquid) would directly challenge the patriots system then it would be able to calculate a method on how to counter and defeat him because the ai is presented to be better and greater than any single human. It is precisely through obfuscation and layers of lies and simulation that Ocelot managed to distract the AI enough to allow for Solid and his gang to destroy it. The system was unable to construct a "simulacra" or a model for a completely batshit insane plan that Ocelot enacted.>>721205142>>721205235Ocelot is the bipolar in-between Joy (boss) and Sorrow.He doesn't act to hold up just his mother's legacy, what he ends up doing through the entire franchise is effectively acting as a counter weight or a balance so that whenever one side of the coin is strengthened he automatically empowers the other side, in fact he is so autistic about it that the moment Miller in mgs5 told him that he would support solid snake he instantly in that moment decided that therefore he must help liquid. The change was that Ocelot realized that Zero became cancer upon humanity and with the success of AI system neither Joy nor sorrow would be possible in this world, with the eventual goal of nano machine control of entire population it would end up best case scenario like movie Equilibrium and worst case scenario actual Borg hivemind. Therefore his final act was to help return the freedom of choice that humanity had lost.
>>721205903Wow, when you put it like that it's all way more retarded than I could've imagined
>>721205903>>It is precisely through obfuscation and layers of lies and simulation that Ocelot managed to distract the AI enough to allow for Solid and his gang to destroy it. The system was unable to construct a "simulacra" or a model for a completely batshit insane plan that Ocelot enacted.>The multi-quadrillion dollar giga-nigga powered AIs that was secretly directing Rat Patrol, and by extension, Snake to assassinate Liquid couldn't possibly have predicted that Snake and Otacon would dismantle SOP instead of playing hard to catch with Liquid
>>721204353The best part is that he actually was being possessed by Liquid during MGS2 but then cut that arm off and had it replaced with a cybernetic because Liquid's ghost was too annoying but pretending to be possessed a ghost had somehow convinced the Patriot's AI.This fucking game man.
>>721206197It might sound retarded, but the idea is that just as the ai found a way to simulate perfect soldier with mgs 2 and Raiden, ocelot found a way to simulate ultimate danger to the ai such that it would try to catch him in a retarded game of cat and mouse. In execution it might be retarded, but thematically that is the "point", that effectively through memes you are able to simulate reality for any conscious entity to a point that it is unable to distinguish it from reality and since AI was built upon human collective consciousness it was susceptible to the same manipulation. Of course we just need to accept that apparently Ocelot is the greatest manipulator in history of mankind since he effectively tricked collective result of human species.
>>721205903So Ocelot is just contrarian
>>721205903It's nice thematically and all, but why does Ocelot still fight Snake at the end? For what purpose? Wasn't it already over? Did Ocelot just want to die?
>>721206591So what you're saying is that everything past act 3 was just Ocelot indulging in petty revenge over what happened in the MGS3 decades prior to even the score with Solid Snake, who may as well have been Big Boss, and once that was settled, have one last show down and bestow a smooch on Snake's cheek?
>>721207060His layers of self induced hypnogogia were removed through this fight, in a flashy manner, which is a good excuse to go from mgs 1 to mgs 4 through all of his personalities.But on top of that Ocelot is not really a rational man, it was a combination of all sorts of things, he wanted to feel big boss one more time through fight with solid, he wanted to die in a manner he probably saw fitting and orchestrated, he understood that as Big Boss stated later on for the world to truly become free for better or worse every boomer that created current status quo had to die this obviously includes big boss, zero and ocelot himself etc.Generally MGS is thematically and philosophically very coherent, it is extremely clear what kojima wants to tell. It's just that he isn't a good writer so he packs what he wants to tell into a usually badly paced story that is hard to suspend yourself into. The benefit of course is that he has enough flash and showmanship that it is fun and on top of that their team consistently made games that would have amazing fun tech for respective times with MGS5 still having the best action tps gameplay ever made in my opinion.The entire story of every metal gear starting from mgs1 is that a mentor generation creates "fate", a simulated reality, through genes or memes or phantoms or what have you, and the apprentice generation gets molded by this though every time eventually they reach a stage of rebellion which causes a slight mutation in the original idea evolving the concept further. It's all different plays on that with the implication that this is how humanity progresses in general from one generation to another, living in simulacra of what their previous generation intended for them and then altering it through rebellion only to create a new simulacra for the next generation. With algorithmic AI bring presented as a dead end of humanity that cannibalizes upon our mematic tendencies and will result in the literal end of free will.
>>721204460Nope
>>721207193In part yes, but as I said here the were also other factors>>721207958And he also ultimately knew that everyone from their generation had to die, thermally or metaphorically or literally, whatever. The entire generation of original Patriots had to go for the world to turn the new page.New page doesn't mean things will be better but at least there is a chance for a new status quo to form.
>>721207958Thank you for the thoughtful response anon, I think you put into words some things that I felt only subconsciously I think, but that's just my autism. Ocelot is still my favourite mgs character
>>721209043No problem, I had binge last year where I replayed all of MGS and tried to actually sit down and formulate what is supposed to mean while cross referencing Kojimas and teams statements. More or less after that process I realized that it's the same story told from slightly different angles putting focus on different aspects of how we through our life create a simulation for the next generation to suffer through, storytelling itself is an ability to "simulate" experiences in other people. In this case an AI that can perfectly construct simulated echo chambers for every single individual is the ultimate antagonist to humanity as a species of one is to value free will.
>>7212043534 isnthe only mainline game ive never played and it really seems like it was completely retarded.
>>721204353Kojima fucking hates his fanbase because we didn't like MGS2deep4u.3 was mocking us by giving us a guy who looks like Solid Snake with a simpler narrative and spy fantasy.4 was to kill off Solid Snake and age him irreversibly, wrapping up loose ends so he can finally stop making Metal Gear games.Peace Walker Kojima started to rediscover his passion again.V was Kojima getting sick of Konami and fucking around. Then remembering he hates you and pulling the Raiden shit again. Except this time the character looks like Big Boss now so you faggots would accept it.
>>7212111203 had simpler narrative but was way more emotional than 2 and 1. I don't see any mocking thereI agree with you on V though
>>721205903Never let bruh cook again
>>721211346"You guys didn't like Raiden? Fine, now he's gay and has a whiny voice and you can murder him."Kojima made him the star of MGS2, he didn't pull a 180 on how he felt. He was bitter and it was his way of pissing on us.
MGS4 was kinoWar Economy was kino
>>721211724>He was bitter and it was his way of pissing on us.Seems more like fanservice since he allows us to kill him kek
If Otacon could just interface with the Patriot's AI with Mk III then why did Snake have to go through the microwave hall?
>>721211120>age him irreversiblyTo be fair this is something MGS2 already baked into the story with Liquid's comment and Solidus. It would be kind of weird for a sequel not to address it in some way, even if Kojima allowed Snake to be a little younger than he is in MGS4.I actually like Old Snake, though the story manages to do fuck-all with him as a character.
Is brainlet rage a thing, like manlet rage? I see stupid people make fun of MGS in this same manner again and again for some reason. They reject all explanations and just want to bring it down to their level.
>>721204460Ocelot didnt give a fuck about Big Boss in MGS1. It was a retcon they brought in with the increased animeness of the sequels.
>>721207958>he understood that as Big Boss stated later on for the world to truly become free for better or worse every boomer that created current status quo had to die this obviously includes big boss, zero and ocelot himself etc.What are you basing this on? All MGS4 really gives us is that Ocelot wanted Big Boss free from his nanomachine prison. There was no reason to think Big Boss would be any different after being made conscious again, though. The only thing that seems to change Big Boss's mind is Naomi. Snake obviously didn't expect this either which is why he assumes he's going to have to murder this stupid one-eyed fucker again when he shows up.
>>721211120I hated V and found it extremely boring and tedious gameplay wise with awful story and characters yet I loved all the old MGS games including Portable Ops. I did find Peace Walker a bit meh though as all the boss fights were boring robots instead of people who talk to you about their back story but it was much better than V. Also I loved MGS2 day and didnt give a shit that I was playing as Raiden. The hate for that never made any sense to me at all as Snake was still in the game.
>>721213224>including Portable Ops.
>>721213672Portable Ops has a relatively normal mgs linear story with human boss fights who talk to you as they die just like 1,2 and 3 and 4.
>>721211120He doesn't hate his fanbase he just doesn't like solid snake because he's "not human". Big Boss reignited the passion because he was.
.45 huh????
>>721204460He was closer to venom.
>>721205903I am baffled continuously with how midwits get trapped into defending dogshit plots to try and come across as smart to an anonmyous image board.
>>721215251>literally brainwashes him and is ok with using him as a pawn for Big Boss's sakeOk, may this kind of friendship never find me
>>721213224>The hate for that never made any sense to me at all as Snake was still in the game.The hate at the time was quite simple really. Solid Snake is fucking cool. He's a mans man. Cool ass bandana, cool name, cool everything. Raiden meanwhile looks like a girl and seems a bit faggy. You need to have that early 00's mindset to understand that guys just wanted cool protagonists and Solid Snake was cool as hell.It's no surprise that it was only years later that people came to warm up to Raiden, since I think a lot of players grew up and got over that phase and could understand Raiden better.
>>721215327He brainwashed himself too, when miller found out he turned against the cause, but venom and ocelot stuck together.
>>721215327"May this kind of life never find you" is a primary message for every one of these games.
>>721215407>You need to have that early 00's mindsetBut I played the game the day it came out and didn’t have any issue with Raiden. Maybe its just because im in Europe so I knew Raiden was in the game before I played it as it came out like a year later in Europe and saw it mentioned in the game magazines.
>>721215593Well not everyone's going to have the exact same opinion, but the overwhelming dissent towards Raiden was just simply that he wasn't Solid Snake. Possibly the bait and switch ticked those people off as well.
>>721215442What other choice did Venom have though? Even if he wanted to quit after realizing he was brainwashed he would've been probably finished by either Zero or Ocelot...
>>721215407>>721213224I blame the EN dub voice for this as the Japanese voice portrayed Raiden as a rookie, but he's still a military dude with a rougher/manlier voicehttps://youtu.be/cq6GNbalhnk?t=9682
>>721215442I mean I don't really blame Miller for turning on Big Boss. That entire plan was fucking schizophrenic and demented and if I was Miller I'd feel very betrayed after finding out.
>>721215834Are you saying venom just flat out would have no chance against ocelot?>>721215960It requires a kind of blind fanaticism, the point is two people with that shared fanaticism could be friends.
>>721204353As a villain I don't see anything with his motives at all
>>721214714He was human in MG1 and 2 up until he retconned him in MGS to be a super soldier clone.Kojima is his own worst enemy and it's hard to think of a single time he hasn't retconned his retcon of a retcon in the next installment.
>>721207060He just wanted to give Snake and player a fun and climactic final boss fight.
>>721215812...and Raiden taking the dogtags with the name and birthday you put in and throwing them away because he doesn't need "you" anymore.
>>721216736that was kino though
>>721216034If Ocelot was really set on killing him? I'm not saying Venom wouldn't have a chance but I'm certain Ocelot would've won at the end>>721215960Wasn't Miller doublecrossing BB first in Peace Walker? He kinda had it coming
>>721207060Ocelot wanted to fight Big Boss one last timeSnake wanted to fight Liquid one last timeBy fighting each other they both got what they wanted.
>>721214714He doesn't hate Solid Snake, he just didn't know what to do with him after1 and 2, so he made a metaphor for his own feelings on getting old and how trapped he felt in the series at that point. If anything Solid Snake is his most personal character, which is why he said he didn't want anyone else writing him.
>>721212498>Is brainlet rage a thingYes. Brainlets seethe is easily spotted with words like pseud and midwit>i don't understand thing>uh actually understanding it makes you a midwit
>>721211120>Kojima fucking hates his fanbase because we didn't like MGS2deep4u.You say this, but my biggest issue with every game after MGS2 (especially 4) is how they retroactively ruin a lot of the groundwork MGS2 established. You can get subtle hints from MGS2's narrative that Snake is helping Raiden because he reminds him of Gray Fox and Snake is also trying to prevent Raiden from going down the same path as him. This is all completely fucked in the ass with MGS4 having Raiden end up in the same fate as Gray Fox and Snake's speech after MGS2 meaning nothing until the end of MGS4 where themes of it is half-assedly shoved back in (don't forget Kojima's original intent was to end it off with Snake and Otacon being executed, which definitely shits all over MGS2's ending). MGS2's supplementary material all hints that the Patriots are indeed driven by actual human beings and at a more complex Illuminati-style network, but they use AI to obfuscate their true nature. MGS3 already hints at us that the codec team being connected to the Patriots in some way (hell, Zero's Blofeld scar is a very glaring hint, but I don't think many people noticed it) but MGS4 half-asses it and MGSV later ruins the fuck out of it. I could go on and on. But I think once you replay MGS2 in retrospect, you realize that a lot of the games afterwards drag it down. >>721215407>>721215812Raiden was mainly disliked because the English team kinda did a poor job with localizing Raiden. I am not as sure about the translation, but the VA direction was awful. Quinton Flynn makes him sound whiny. Japanese Raiden has a ridiculously deep voice and sounds more cocky and sure of himself. I get this was changed to make him sound more like a "rookie" but the entire point of Raiden is that it's all a facade. I genuinely think had Raiden been done much closer to the Japanese version, reception on him would've been warmer. Kojima was too retarded to realize that was the problem though.
