explain why is a mile long run back to a boss a good thing without sounding like a retard
>>721257767It makes for MEANINGFUL content, mohran*snorts*
Metroidvanias are fucking trash anon. There is absolutely nothing interesting about forks in the road and backtracking.Linear platforms of optional challenge rooms are objectively better. Shovel Knight > Hollow Shite
>>721257767It isn't. Difficulty in video games isn't bad, but shit like this isn't difficult, it's just tedious. And tedium in video games is bad game design.
>>721257767I DID NOTHING WRONG
>>72125776715 seconds isn't a mile
>>721257767>explain why is
>>721258172this anon is based and correct
>>721257767whoa that dude is ripped
Depends on how it's implemented. If you're just running through empty areas it's bad, but if there's hazards then it can add resource management to the boss fight. Need to be thoughtful during the runback or you're attempting a boss with less health/mana/consumables
>>721257767The separation of levels and bosses is arbitrary. In video games, you run through an environment fighting enemies. Some of those enemies might be particularly powerful and/or mandatory, but that doesn't make them a separate challenge from everything that came before it. Save points, resting areas and similar mechanics exist to segregate the game into different chunks made to challenge them with their own individual difficulty. When a game developer places two checkpoints, what they are saying is that everything between them is meant to be tackled at once, and the game's difficulty is calibrated with that fact in mind. It doesn't matter whether that includes an entire level, part of a level, one boss, one level and one boss, or even multiple bosses. That's for the developer to determine.Not you.
>>721258526how about doing arduous unnecessary platforming over spikes?
>>721258750So it's for mocking players?
>>721257767Either you like exploration and the world having a sense of scale, or you don't like Metroidvanias.Maybe play something better suited to ADHD's.
>>721257767If there's no drawback a death is meaningless.
>>721257767Bad players must be punished, good players must be rewarded. This is a core element of all good games. The run back also equals more platforming, which is good for a 2D action-platformer.
>>721257767 Because when you finally beat the boss, it feels earned. Not just "oh I died, mash X to respawn right at the fog door." The runback gives moments of reflection, tension, and sometimes forces you to rethink your route or prep. It's not just punishment, it’s pacing. You either adapt or keep eating Ls. Sounds like a skill issue, desu.
A mile long run back is a good thing because you are a worthless waste of space, wasting your time is the morally correct thing to do as it has no value and would be spent commiting sins like jerking off otherwise.
>>721259313
>>721258791That would count as hazards, yes
>>721257767>long run backWhy ask us? Didn't the devs themselves explain the exact reasoning behind it? Maybe someone can post it for you.
>>721257767it's not, the game is literally intentionally built to waste as much of your time as possible, makes you thread the same routes over and over, every platforming challenge is a vertical climb that forces you to redo it from the start if you fuck up, enemies that push you off platforms, metroidvania backtracking, boss run backs, sparse benches, grinding for money, grinding for quest itemsbuilt to squeeze as much playtime as possible from as little screens as possible
>>721258856No, it's because the developer considers the area between the checkpoint and the boss as one single challenge, not just the boss itself. If they considered the boss a lone challenge, they would've put a checkpoint right before them. It's not up to you to determine how difficult the game should be, it's the developer's.This might shock you, but some video games don't have checkpoints at all, or entire levels and their respective bosses are bundled together, you can't just warp straight to the boss.
because it just is okay?
>>721258941>>721259042The drawback is that you have to replay the boss again and you can't progress until you beat you mentally retarded nigger. Having to redo boring segments to just have another try at a boss wont make you better. Imagine making an error at work and then instead of working to fix the error, you have to go back home and travel to work each time before you can try to fix it again.
there's a pretty big difference between something that's a level focused game where the entire conceit is making it through in a single go where the boss is just the climax, and something like the later souls games that are glorified boss rushes. in the former the runback is the entire point, in the latter it's more of a player psychology nudge. you need to have that little bit of tedium for each attempt to feel meaningful and not like your cheesing save states.
>>721259814hollow knight on the other hand felt more like an adventure, like you're constantly exploring and moving forward at your own pace, silksong just really likes to constantly drag you back by the scruff of your neck and go 'now do it again, now do it again, now go back and do it again, wow isn't this game HARDDD???'
>>721259042>It's not just punishment, it’s pacing.chatgpt
>>721259814>>721260540I am replaying the original and I see this all over the place. I don't mind it being hard, but it's the time wasting that wore me down. Making you go back and use dream nail on everything is just boring
>>721257767Well design boss battles either have a checkpoint right in front of the boss room or you unlock a shortcut that allows fast access back to the boss.
>>721260669for optional stuff sure, but silksong just bakes that shit straight into the main gameplay
>>721257767WOW doood what the fuck https://youtu.be/G-pXDr_r1X4?t=11406
>>721260782yeah but the optional stuff IS the game. Do you not want to free all of the green bugs? How do you even discern whats optional or not? You don't. So you have to retrack again and again
This run back features a grand total of 5 enemies and you can trivially jump past 4 of them with no danger. It takes less than two minutes total. If you're struggling with this level of platforming, you better knuckle down and get good, because these are fundamentals you're going to want to have down well if you don't want to be shitting yourself over actually challenging platforming sections later in the game.
>>721261057you cam literally not care and just keep following the obvious path forward and have a good time, you'll probably end up slightly underpowered and struggle with bosses but at least the run backs aren't intentionally evil
If you're bad enough to die you need more practice. Your control and execution are still not drilled enough. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
>>721261591The obvious path (organic) is killing HK at 70% completion rate and achieving the false ending. You might as well not play the game in the first place
>>721261175Runbacks are comfy.
This board loves shitting on DSP while simultaneously being just as dogshit at games.
casuals really showing their ass with silksong sheesh
>>721257767It's not, you die and the game should be over, so you have to start again instead some arbitrary save point.
i love a long bench -> bench run but a short bench -> boss run. They're their own unique challenges. one is the challenge of exploration and the other is the challenge of the boss fight.stakes of marika were a great idea in ER. it'd be nice to have a big distance between benches and bosses but with a SoM equivalent outside the boss (without needing a mod).
>>721261934It's about how he plays and what he says while doing it, usually not the result. Now lets get some subs. We're just two goals away from the Little Caesar's goal! We're at 300/450 today, we're within striking distance! I want to get a superchat, right now! Right.... now! Right......... Now.....
>>721261934/threaderino
>>721257767If you willingly play this reddit game where you are a bug woman in a dress daintily hopping around then you deserve to have every second of your time wasted
>>721262704>This>Really obnoxious "SPINNING BIRD KICK" alert based on Chun-Li >Has a fascination for dudes, rejects relationships with women even in video gamesI wonder what "the guy" means by this
>>721261934At least I never jacked off on camera.
>>721264131In all fairness, it could have happened to anyone
>>721261854>20+ hours of comfy platformer combat on a cute post apocalyptic bug society>might as well not play on the first placehuh??
>>721261908>>721265031You are mentally eight years old
>>721265421>fun things are not fun>cute things are not cutemy bad bro, didn't know I was talking to the CEO of hardass himself!
>have to intentionally misconstrue OP to justify bad design
>>721257767It's a total waste of time If the runback is just a long boring walk, but If the runback has enemies/platforming/gauntlet, It's a part of the boss/challenge. It's there to punish grind shitters. just learn to play and stop throwing yourself at the game.
>>721258074>autism walmart shoesof course
>>721260938How was he supposed to know that was gonna happen
>>721262179Don't know why there are so many constant checkpoints. Aw, I died but who gives a fuck. I respond 3 seconds away anyway. literally removed all tensions from the game. slowly munching their formulas turning them into a slop machine. He just doesn't have that dog in him no more
>>721268170 (me)*respawn
>>721259865>the developer is retardedYes that has been established, you're not really making a case
>>721258172Based
Is the first one like this? If so, that's a hard drop for me. I don't mind hard challenges but the forced tedium between attempts is unacceptable unfun.I will probably never finish dark souls because of it. It was fun at times but not enough to eclipse all the boredom.
>>721257767Silksong puts emphasis on movement and platforming. The runback to the boss is an additional platforming challenge. Just like how, with repeated attempts, you can read the bosses movements and get good at dodging, you can also get good at this literal one minute of platforming until it becomes second nature. Also, having a build-up to the fight each time helps cement the idea that this guy is a big deal, unlike if you just rescanned in the room again - the effect doesn't wear off so quickly. Also, come on bro the Last Judge runback is nothing.
>>721268705HK has runbacks yes, but both the enemies, platforming, and bosses themselves are three to four times easier than Silksong. You will beat about half the bosses first try.
>>721268776*respawned
>>721268776>you can do something repeatedly many times until it becomes second natureYeah ok. But it's not fun though. If you've done a challenge, you've done a challenge. Why do you need to do it over and over again
>>721268947do you want a checkpoint after you beat phase 1 of a boss? Same logic
When did "run back" become a thing?"Oh I fuckin beefed it in Super Mario Bros need to do a run back to where I died.""I died in Dark Souls I need to do a run back".Ive never hears a review go "the game is good but it has a run back so that's a bad".
>>721269132some dark souls bonfires that were far away from a difficult boss I would guessit is odd considering it was super common for games to send you back to the start of a level and not the start of the boss fight
>>721269132NIGGER souls introduced it because miyazaki is a miserable faggot
>>721268947>jump over the first goomba in Super Mario Bros>die to the second goombawhat the FUCK! I already did the first challenge! Why is it sending me back to the beginning of the level!
PCkeks getting filtered by console design is hilarious. No save states or quicksave to abuse? Fucking bullshit doesn't respect my time
>>721270013>I got beaten up and fucked in the ass? Good!>This means I am now a part of the select few who are above those weaklings that didn't get beaten up and fucked in the ass. Something to be proud of!
>>721268947It's subjective. Everything is. I enjoyed it. When I figured out the path to take to avoid every enemy, and I pull every jump of as fast as possible, it felt satisfying. I'm not into speedrunning myself but I could certainly give it a good go on that room and ones like it. When Everything flows together it's really nice. If you can't relate, I'm sorry, but I would imagine that Team Cherry had my experience in mind when they made it that way. It has a purpose to some people at least.
>>721270198>I have to... play the game?
>>721270198>>I got beaten up and fucked in the ass? Good!It's like the whole concept of video games is lost on you. No shit, you have to suffer before you succeed, or do you expect to do everything first try?
"runbacks" make boss fights more interesting and varied because your performance prior to the boss directly rewards or punishes you with resources. reaching the boss flawlessly in ninja gaiden or castlevania and having full health and ninpo/hearts makes for an easier fight, and doing a sloppy runback will make things more difficult basically, git gud
>>721270717Perverse skinnerboxes for masochistic cuckolds who trick their brain into thinking that they are "improving" do not encompass entirety of video games medium.By the way, when was the last time you learned anything that actually makes your life better?
>>721257767It takes like 20 seconds, maybe 30 if you don't notice the obvious shortcut halfway through
>but muh dark souls everyone who says this is a god damn faggot. Theres a huge difference to how this is done in the original DS and DeS and why.
>>721258172true, CV3, 4, and others are better than SOTN
>>721258172You fags need to stop abusing the term metroidvabia. 90% of the games in that genre are not. There is no leveling, no equipment choice, no ability choice. They are action precision platforming with a bunch of fluff
>>721273770>it doesn't meet MY gay definition so you're a fagits the top tag on steam its a metroidvania.
>>721258172I stand by my opinion that metroidvanias are actually the apex of videogaming, simply because they involve every single skill required to play videogames above a basic level.
>>721269261>I don't like liquorice>what the fuck, anon?! don't you know that liquorice has been around for a long time?!What drives a retard like you to think like this?
>>721274081you stand by your opinion even though i pointed out why they are flawed?that's pretty retarded, anon
>>721271881>enjoy playing games as a hobbysomehow, this makes me a masochist>It's kinda hard but good dopamineand a cuckold?>yeah, I'm having fun overcome obstaclesapparently, the chemicals inside my brain is tricking me?>also learning mutiple languagessurprisingly, this guy on the net is trying to make it more personal?you're just spewing words at this point. those barely mean anything. are you mad seeing ppl having fun playing cute bug game, and you cannot get into? what's next? going to telling me to kill myself because I'm trying to get into your skins. jesus, you are already /here/, retard
>>721274098I don't think he's saying that run backs are good because they've existed for a long time, more that it's odd that people have only relatively recently started calling them run backs when they've existed for a long time
I wish casuals would've stayed in their wii 2 or playing candy crash in their phones or whatever.
>>721268705There's barely any bosses necessitating a second try in hollow knight, and that's a good thing because the combat and movement in HK is not very good and when they try to increase the challenge for some of the bonus post-game bosses the flaws in the combat just become apparent and those bosses play abysmally. Probably the worst "runback" in HK is just having to fight the piss easy first phase of the final boss every time you want to attempt the second phase.Silksong actually has much tighter movement and combat controls so if you enjoy games and not just checklists, then even the gameplay of refining your movement during the boss lead up to turn the minute trek to a 12 second sprint is good gameplay. I haven't had much time to play, but I literally just did that area/boss in the picture and the platforming to get back to the boss is pretty fun, and the boss isn't exactly hard enough to require any more than 5 tries from an average player
>>721274754yeah hardcore gamers like me that play*looks at notes*fucking hollow knight lmao
>>721274150>they are flawed because I don't like it
>>721257767even vinny who famously sucks at games didn't have a problem with that one after the third time.https://youtu.be/DVd9t-qlqX0?t=1332the only truly bad one is groal's.
>>721275579Nobody is as bad as DSP when it comes to video games. Fact that he has been playing games for 30 years only makes it worse.
>>721257767Last Judge runback is 30 seconds.Groal's is fucking AIDS, though
>>721257767Video games, faggot, VIDEO GAMES!
