Sekiro parrying and its conesquences have been a fucking disaster for the action game genre
I understand your frustration, but Sekiro is one of the funnest game to play through a second time. I know you're having a tremendous amount of trouble getting through the game right now and the very thought of a second playthrough seems absurd ("who would be so masochistic?" you're thinking) but once things click and you know what to do, it's an incredibly satisfying game.
Sekiro is the only game that got it right. Lies of Piss parry system is unsatisfying, especially with the boss fights where you have to anticipate instead of react to some of their attacks.
>>721277685I have the same exact critique of Lies of P. The perfect guarding window is "before you're hit" , not "as you're being hit"
>>721277809Other than that, Lies of P is still probably the best and most polished Non-FromSoftware Souls-Clone.
>>721278073That one little thing really irritated me though. I had to switch to a weapon with an auto-parry skill to defeat the Nameless Puppet at the end. THAT two-sword slash move cannot be blocked on reaction.
that two sword dash move*
>>721277343Because some shitty games copied chain parries without the back and forth that Sekiro has where enemies can deflect you?
>>721277343What else has parrying like Sekiro, except Lies of P or Wo-long? I want to play them.
>>721277343fag
Owl father is not fun to fight. I can't parry his shit reliably and he does too much damage. Thanks for looking.
>>721277343Yea that's true. It's like Halo being the culmination of the arena FPS genre.
>>721278627Monster Hunter Wilds.
>>721278396>where enemies can deflect youThe correct way to phrase that is>where you can force enemies to block and deflect youYes, they deny you health damage, but you still build posture and keep their moveset more predictable.It's a shame that no one copies that. Especially since there is so much room to improve on this. Sekiro is all R1 to force blocks. I'd love to see other attacks like combat arts and prothesis play more of a role with that.
Most fun bosses:Sword SaintTrue MonkGenichiro
>>721278627>>721278627Thymesia and Stellar Blade. Also Nightreign on one character.
I’m gonna say what others are saying: Sekiro is great, but OP is right in saying it’s been a disaster for the industry at large.
I'm so tired of this ruined action games narrative since they also had an age of oversaturation and their devs ended up killing their own franchises long before souls became a widespread scene.
>>721277343Can't get mad at the natural flow of ideas and time.
>>721279291Oh no! They made a GOTY. And then people made the best non-From Soft Soulslike. And then other people made a JRPG that is probably this years GOTY.Oh the humanity.
>>721277343It's funny how no matter how much I complain about some From design clones fuck it up even harder despite rollslop and parryslop sounding easy on paper to design
The death of action games came long before soulslikes. Each genre period will experience death at some point in time. Action game devs killed action games not Fromsoftware. This is like blaming the Great Oxidation extinction on modern humans.
>>721279095>they deny you health damage,Why did you start phrasing this like I was implying it was a bad thing?
>>721278073i really liked how 1:1 the lies of P movement was like the fast 180 turn which is what made me immediately dislike DS2 cuz it was slow and sluggish TL;DR: if you cant 180 fast turn the game is not souls it sucks it's trash
>>721277343i love sekiro but this is unequivocally the truth. everyone copying it does a terrible job at it>>721277587that doesnt have anything to do with what OP said>>721277809i dont understand this complaint, in sekiro you can really press the deflect a lot before you take damage. But in sekiro you actually kind of react to really well made enemy animations and you can deflect everything first try even if you never saw it before. LoP is too stuck on some very shallow mindset of "haha le bossfight" where enemies will just twirl a bit with shitty animations and windups that end in an instant so theres a bit of trial and error, its not really hard as the entire game is focused on that with little to no creativity for how to actually oppress the player but it sure does make it less satisfying to win and lose>>721277685see above>>721278396its actually comical how not a SINGLE dev copying this made enemies that can actually clash with you back
Sekiro is perfect
>>721277343Blood omen 2 came up with the concept, Sekiro just perfected it
>>721279976it can be bothFromsoft is actually trying to make their own combat and have fun with it. the inspiration the other devs took in fromsoft is precisely what made them creatively bankruptI literally love sekiro but i could never have expected it to be such an immense monkeys' paw to action games as a whole. Also just look at Elden Ring. You can jump over attacks entirely freely there. Using ashes of war that lower your character significantly and allows you to duck under moves is extremely strong. Tanking and shielding is way more interesting in that game. But then every other action game dev stays eternally stuck in a miserably shallow rut when it comes to player defense, its fucking infuriating
>>721280135LoP gives you more options than one to approach boss fights.
>>721277587>but once things clickI'm so sick of hearing this stupid shit.
Is this the best copy implementation we have gotten so far?
Who or what was the hardest boss for you?For me, it was Lady Butterfly.
>>721280473Yes.
>>721280513monke and the ghost monk. Once I beat them I quit the game, I really don't care for difficult games for the sake of difficulty. It feels pointlessly masochistic.
>>721280513The rape ape duo
>>721280342LoP gives some shallow ass style over substance concepts of "different approach" to bossfights. You will see two different people just parryslopping through every single attack the boss does, and then attacking in the exact same windows in between, but as they do different moves and rack up damage through different styles of actions and bonuses, they pretend its playstyle variety. And then another guy comes in doing almost the same shit except he likes to dash instead of deflect but youre in the exact same scenarioat least sekiro gives me a more meaningful difference when i destroy the entirety of the miniboss with nothing but the flame vent. Or maybe i gank him with puppeteer. Or maybe i keep baiting his aerial attack to hit him with a charged shuriken. Or maybe i just pussy out of the normal fight because i couldnt clash with him very well and just pretend im playing a STR build with jumping mortal draw. Or maybe some more gimmicky fight like Guardian Ape or Demon of Hatred that really takes me out of the normal loop of the game and gives me a couple different ways to bring down their healthsadly you are more limited when it comes to most main bosses in sekiro indeed but calling korean parryslop a game with "many approaches" also feels like hyperbole
>>721280623Damn, you got quite far into the game when you quit. More than halfway. >>721280627That boss was kind of bullshit. It is one thing to reuse a boss, it is another to reuse it twice in the same fight.
>>721280513Demon of Rage (I think that's what he was called)I had to abuse the umbrella to win
>>721279326Most of pre-from soft bosses can't even stand up to fucking taurus demon in terms of gameplay quality.Shit like Ninja Gaiden has maybe one or two functional bosses per game. The rest are just complete fucking shit on a silver platter. Oftentimes the silver platter is missing too. Like yeah, the levels are fun and the combat has lots of skill expression in games like that.But bosses were complete fucking horseshit in video games for such a long time. Hell it got to a point in the 2000s that some devs straight up gave up and turned their bosses into movies with quick time events because no one had a clue how to make bosses work in gameplay at the time.I'm playing a bunch of space marine 2 right now and I much prefer rolling and parrying a hive tyrant with soulslop mechanics than have a fucking quick time event final boss like the first fucking game.
>>721281542Abusing the umbrella is the only way to win with the bell because you can't block the fire
>>721280459The entire game of Sekiro is teaching you how to play Sekiro(except the first level which purposely trains you wrong as a joke).Final boss is like an actual final exam. That Anon is completely right. Once you beat the final boss, the second run through the game is like re-enrolling to elementary school after handing in your PHD thesis. Which is why they added two optional modifiers you can use to bring subsequent runs up in difficulty.
>>721280513Demon of Hatred for sure. But if mandatory bosses, then probably Owl.
>>721282256It doesn't take an entire fucking game to teach you timing dipshit, it's just muscle memory learning all of the bosses attacks. There's no strategy to that. Nothing is clicking but you pressing a button at the correct time and only the correct time.
>>721281686I beat the game demon bell charmless and didn't use umbrella once against him.You can just run diagonal and all his fireballs miss and the resulting spiral you're following while doing that puts you roughly where he stands by the time his move ends. Feels fucking great.Unless you mean some other fire move in which case just jump over or away.He literally has nothing complicated going on. Just a huge health bar.
>>721280513>every attempt requires 5+ minutes of mook clearing
Three phase bosses:GenichiroTrue MonkDemon of HatredEmma/IsshinFour phase bosses:Genichiro/Isshin
>>721282696He was tough if you fought him as soon as possible. Damn easy on repeat playthroughs.I feel bad for the suckers who tried Hirata Estate before defeating Gyobo... I was one of those suckers.
>>721277685It's still fun that you can break the boss's weapons and they do like no damage afterward.
>>721282256>Once you beat the final boss, the second run through the game is like re-enrolling to elementary school after handing in your PHD thesis.This is exactly how I felt lol. I was really disappointed.
>>721280513These monk fuckers >>721282624Jumping is unreliable, hat is the way to go.
>>721282624the fireballs can be occasionally jank and hit you anyways but yeah he's a really basic boss if you forgo parrying.
>>721280513>For me, it was Lady Butterfly.how thoughshe's so easy
>>721282592You can sight-read most of the attacks in the game once you get your reflexes up to speed and understand the difference of what needs to be deflected, dodged, mikirid or jumped over. It's not just hard memorization alone.Also learning to be aggressive mostly, but with some limits here and there makes the game much more manageable. Finding the right balance of that is something you do learn as you go through the game.Like yeah, you could claim it's all predetermined. But that is kind of a silly claim. Very few things in video games aren't predetermined to some degree.
Sekiro is without question the most fun action game ever made though
>>721280627>die like 20 times to solo ape>one shot the duo apemake it make sense
>>721280513Isn't Isshin just simply the hardest? Since you had to kill 2 bosses in a row.
>>721284220Not really because their patterns aren't that hard
>>721277343parrying is fun.
>>721284220I think by the time you reach him most people have gotten a good feel for the flow of combat. He's probably the most fun and well designed fight, not sure if he's the most challenging.
>>721281686you can just dodge the fire, but yes umbrella makes it a lot easier
>>721277343Name one game that was ruined by design elements borrowed from Sekiro.Demon bell + charmless mode: A game that actually could've turned out good without those elements.
>>721278627First Beserker: Khazan.>>721278073I liked Wuchang more personally.
>>721286048i feel like shallow copies of sekiro deflects are more about worsening than ruiningall things considered, nobody is actually mad with being inspired by sekiro deflects or trying to feature them. Its more like how the devs simply dont actually evolve it at all, they simply make a worse version, and when its across so many games it gets really boringlike theres so many options you could choose from to evolve it>directional parries like for honor or KCD but sekiro-style>something like the posture bar but more dynamic and short-term and with attacks mattering more compared to just counter attacks, instead of "haha i filled this after 9000 deflects time to nuke the boss">literally any new way to perform or control the parry>add something more elaborate to how enemies need to defend from your deflects, add a new layer of depth by making your attacks harder to defend frombut nobody really moves beyond just "press 1 button to avoid the enemy attack" and dont even feature the enemies themselves clashing with you. at most you get some charged parry or whatever
>>721286563The people who steal from Sekiro need to remember that you needed to do different things to avoid damage it wasn't always deflect
>>721286860more or lessyou know how these fools are. They will see some less popular but much needed variety like status effect attacks, explosions, things hard to L1R1L1R1, bosses like ape and DoH, etc, as things to be avoided. And then they will make the entire game parryslop except with a ripoff of the perilous attacks so its just pure simon says.
>>721277343When is this going on sale, it's been trapped on my ps4 that I lent to my brother 3 years ago
>>721286563stranger of paradise is the only recent game I can think of that actually had well thought out defensive mechanics
>>721287376People were shitting on how goofy it was but I keep hearing stuff that makes me think that game is actually fun
>>721282256>except the first level which purposely trains you wrong as a jokeSadly plausible.
>>721286467>WuchangIs it still worth playing now? I heard the patches changed the game significantly, for the worse.
>>721278627Nine Sols
>>721287421the game is really fun and mechanically better than nioh even.as for the story it's goofy but in a funny way. jack's autism is adorable
>>721287543I'd say so. The gameplay itself is not significantly worse IMO. The main bad changes which is the 3 bosses surviving do not affect gameplay at all (outside of possibly a bug occurring). The story is worse now, but unless you are heavily invested in it I doubt you would even really notice the changes, especially if you hadn't already played it.The biggest gameplay changes are some enemy spawns removed in what was previously a complained about area in Chapter 3, adjusted enemy spawns and alignment in Chapter 4 (previously there were enemies of 2 factions who would fight each other and you, now only one faction will fight you but there are more of them now) and some enemies, mainly those that appear in early game, stagger to more attacks, whereas previously they would power through lighter attacks.
>>721280513Inner Father was the hardest with charmless + demon bell, he's insane with so little room for error. With demon bell off he's a lot more forgiving and I'd rank Inner Isshin as the hardest. Out of the main story bosses I think Owl Father is the hardest.>>721282696Drunkard filtered me so hard on my first playthrough that it made me take a six month break
>>721277685Lies of P has like 3 different kinds of parries, and you're meant to dodge primarily if you don't understand the moveset you're dealing with
>>721287670I wish it was more popular so that what it did with parrying would catch onI NEED more games to have air parries and charge parries
>>721280513Demon bell charmless Isshin I keep messing up that one attack chain that breaks your posture if you don't get it right
>>721280513Chained Ogre cause it was early enough that I hadn't learned how to play properly yet.
mad cuz badobjectively fun game with good contentkys
>>721277343>most satisfying and good looking souls combat system to this dayrolltards that have been conditioned to ROLL like pavlov dogs by miyazaki are still seething to this day about it
>>721290635i actually loved rolling without leveling ADP. feels great to do a reactionary dodge but to actually evade the attack rather than iframe italonne and smelter demon were the best for it
>>721279161You forgot headless apeLuv' me headless ape
>>721282472>>721281542Agreed. Demon just doesn't fit the play style well.
>>721291636i honestly think demon fits sekiro perfectly>always running towards him is the best option>trying to do as many attacks with as few deflects when up close>really makes use of the sprint mechanic and freeform jumping
Don't really agree. It's true that it has a lot of shitty copycats, but those games are shitty for other reasons too. It's not like we're getting Kingdom Hearts IV and instead of trying to be more like KH II it became Sekiro. Or DMC6 is now Sekiro. Nothing worth a damn threw away its identity to become Sekiro.Dark Souls had that effect, so for example God of War became a Souls-adjacent game, Silent Hill is now a soulslike too, but Sekiro specifically? Chinks love it, I guess, but that's it.
