>It turns out the most predictive out of all the factors we measured was how quickly gamers could mentally rotate things and overcome the Simon effect. The faster they were, the less likely they were to invert. People who said they sometimes inverted were by far the slowest on these tasksHow does it feel to play with inverted controls, retard?
>>721351336I've always done it, ever since I was a ladI'm also left handedI also have inverted nipplesI've also been blown by two girls at onceThey happened to be sistersNow you can make another clickbait article that says "study finds inverted nipples lead to more active sex life" You're welcome
I invert x and am most certainly not slow
it feels right (left)
i dont look at a single controller or accessibility setting when i start a game, i hate the trend of showing you all those options and making you pick one before even showing the title screen, before you even press new game.
people who aren't inverting the Y axis are fucking aliens. Everyone tilts their head back to look up
>>721351541>I've always done it, ever since I was a ladbased>I'm also left handedbased>I also have inverted nipplesbased>I've also been blown by two girls at oncemega based>They happened to be sistersultra based
My right analog stick ALWAYS has the vertical axis inverted. Any other way is pure smoothbrain territory.
>>721351336>scientists now have answers
>>721351336>muh cognitive researchIt's flight sims you retard. It's not a fucking mystery, people who have played flight sims invert their controls, people who haven't dont.
I don't understand the appeal of inverted nipples. It is probably the single most baffling fetish I've seen in all of my Japanese porn.
Source?>I made it the fuck up
>>721351336I just use whatever is default for the game
>>721351995what are you, a fucking nen controlled puppet?
>>721351336Invert is flight control.Joysticks used to be used for flight control.Back in the day, on old computers, Joysticks were the input device of choice.They were inverted.I am old.I grew up on inverted.
>>721352506When you look up, you pull back on your erect penis. It's just normal body motions.
>>721351336Analog stick camera controls are already retarded and were already simplified to account for the Simon effect, since tank controls and fixed/automatic cameras are always better for analog sticks.
'inverted' is the correct way and was originally the norm. I'm not even sure when they started fucking this up, it was after consoles became irrelevant post ps2.The stick is controlling a camera. To point a camera up you tilt it down. The stick is pointing the direction of the view.
>>721351336>Source: I made it up
I am based becaus .... I don't listen to anyone but myself and I ignore all evidence that contradicts my worldview
>>721352569this
>>721352816The only 'original' it's coming from is flightsticks in actual planes, and the reason they were like that is because if you pushed forward for the plane to pitch up you were fighting the gforces for no reason, pulling back was more ergonomic and comfortable and pushing forward basically never happened. It isn't inherently a better joystick control, only in that scenario that doesn't apply to games at all.
>>721352289It's not so strange, I mean I don't get it but as far as baffling goes, I don't think fetishizing any part of the female form can be considered too far out there, especially something like this that's focused on boobs / nipples.
>>721351336I like inverting camera controls, but only for 3rd person camera games., but for aiming it needs to be "normal."
>>721352287I don't invert on most games but I do on airplane controls because that's how airplanes work
when using a keyboard i find myself unwittingly pressing the up key to move the crosshairs upwardreally annoying but if i use a gamepad i dont have the issue using inverted controls using the control stick
>>721352816>all those ps2 games with inverted vertical camera and standard horizontal >you could "invert" it on options but that changed the whole thinggod what were they fucking thinking
>>721351336I push up it goes up I push down it goes down its not that hard to understand
>>721351336>taxpayer money went into this
>>721351336I used to play cs inverted. Then I was at a lan and it was a pain if i wanted to play on someone elses pc, and the other way round, so i stopped playing inverted.Wow so hard.
>>721351336whos simon and how come he gets his own effect
>>721351995>Everyone tilts their head back to look upWhat does this have to do with video game controls? You control the camera, not the character's head position.
>>721351336This is hilarious if true, I'm not surprised since those types always seemed a little slow.
>>721351336Scientists for inverted controls ? wtf is this crap
>>721351336I don't play inverted, holy shit I'm so based.
>>721351995so you move your face... up?
>>721351336For some reason I could not play the remake of Spongebob Battle for Bikini Bottom without inverting the camera. Playing it normally just felt really weird and off.
>>721352569They're not talking about flight controls, they're talking about normal games, most people play flight games with inverted controls since we're all imagining actually piloting the damn thing, that's why it's more often than not the default control scheme in games with flight.
>>721351995>want to look up>naturally push stick upwardsmom's gonna freak
>>721352816So I assume you also invert the X axis?
>>721351910camera shake, depth of field and lens flare should always be turned offusually bloom is done horribly and should be turned off too
>tfw I don't even know if I am a inverted controls fag or notI grew up with a variety of shitty games that pick one control type or the other and then don't let me change. My brain is now permanently fucked and I use whatever feels right at any given moment. If I start a game and then resume it the next day, I might change the control type out of nowhere due to my brain damageIt's over
>>721351336I can't even remember which way I tilt the sticks to look up or down, it's muscle memory for me at this point
>>721351995And when you look right, the back of your head rotates to the left, so why aren't you inverting the X axis as well?
It's kinda funny thinking about it, but the vast majority of old 3D games had inverted controls by default, and that didn't really change until the PS2
I always invert. That means if the default was inverted, I invert that and set the controls to normal. I won't elaborate on this.
>>721351336I didn't see how an ability to "mentally rotate things" would correlate to using what is arguably the less-"rotated" control scheme, but okay.Either way, I'd bet that the "whatever you learned first" factor is about 9000 times more impactful than whatever correlation they think they found. But OP didn't post the study and the journalist who wrote that article almost certainly didn't read past an LLM's summary of the abstract, so I can only guess.
>>721354175Even then some big titles like timesplitters came inverted by default.
>>721354061/thread
>>721354263I remember all of Rare's old games having an inverted camera and being unable to change it, so eventually you just get used to it. Both Halo 1 and 2 start things off with having you look up, down, left, and right, and then asking if you wanted to invert the camera.
>>721354386I am
>>721351336No, it's because older games only used inverted controls, only boomers uses interveted controls
>>721351336The only people who default to inverted are typically those who grew up with N64 games or some kinda flight sim
Inverted camera control users are subhumans.>muh flightThe difference between flight and controlling a camera is that flight has constant forward motion and gravity. When you pitch down (pushing the stick up), it also comes with a increase of speed as you fall downwards. When pitching up (stick pulled down) you slow down with gravity. Stick up = going faster, stick down = going slower. It's mostly because of gravity; if you ever played System Shock and its minigame where you fly in Cyberspace with constant forward motion it still makes more sense to use non-inverted controls because there is no gravity
>>721351336my first game on a controller was GTA IV and it had Y inverted by default so I stick with it but then I somehow switched to normal controls as I played more games
>>721353892Based on the "hurr durr I tilt my head back to look up" logic, a stick's X axis should make the player lean left and right, or do barrel rolls, and you should need a stick that accepts twisting input for turning. So inverting the X axis wouldn't make sense either. His argument fundamentally applies only to the Y axis, whether he realizes it or not.I play games with the Y axis inverted (probably because of Star Fox 64 or something) but there's no real logic to it. If you stop to imagine that you've got your thumb on the character's head before each up/down stick input then you're brain-damaged. If you're normal, the input style you prefer is just muscle memory of a learned skill and has no deeper meaning beyond that.
>>721351336I started inverting controls after FF12 since that game had inverted controls and I played it so much that I got used to it. But eventually moved back to not inverted controls because it became the standard and I'm too lazy to change the settings in every game.
>>721351995I tilt my face up. My face is me, not the back of my head.
>>721351336I invert them because that used to be the default setting and I've just become accustomed to them.
>>721351336For me it was because a joystick in some PC jet fighter game was my first experience with that type of input.
>>721352816It became the norm because more games were backporting PC games that used cursors, and camera controls used to be much less of a concern in console games, since devs put actual effort into making sure that the camera would just werk most of the time and everyone recognized that all games with extensive camera controls belonged on PC and its innovative mouselook solution.
>>721351336I use inverted camera control because it makes sense for met. worked as a camera man
>>721352287>It's flight sims you retard.Fucking this.When I started playing video games FPS didn't exist. Flight sims did though and even arcade games with fighter jets required you to play inverted. So when Quake came about, it was more natural to me and I still to this day play inverted.But I can play non-inverted if a game makes me, just takes a bit of getting used to. I bet these "OMG inverted is so wrong" people would have their brains melt out their ears if they ever had to play an older game pre-halo that doesn't have the strafe-on-left and look-on-right layout.
>>721354842This nigga thinks his face muscles control the tilt of his head
>>721351995>>721352569>>721352816>>721354215>shapeshifting airplanes pretending to be humanI'm not falling for your tricks airniggers
Low IQ>hurr durr face down ass up, luv me invertMidwit>noooooooo you have to move up to look up, anything different is le contrarian retarded sub 80IQ monkey gibber!!!!!!!High IQ>hmm yes, face down posterior up is the natural order of things, so I invert my controls
>>721352287I'm old enough that I remember quake 1 was the first fps I played that allowed you to fully look vertical (duke nukem 3d did to a point) and I played inverted for a long time due to flight sims but yeah eventually I switched back.
>>721351336retarded bullshit.people invert if they play games with inverted controls. there is no mental reason there is no logical reason it's all fake bullshit if you grew up with inverted controls you invert if you didn't you don't simple as retards make it so fucking complicated trying to pretend like they're smart.
>>721354474I have played vidya since my parents bought me a NES and I don't use inverted controls
>>721352816>To point a camera up you tilt itWhich side? The front of the camera or the back of the camera? If you tell me to tilt the camera down I'm going to be filming the fucking ground.
>>721355006There used to be a time where sticks on a controller weren't standard, and in the case of the N64, you only had one. Hell, the original PS1 controller didn't even have dual analog.
>>721351336>Why do some gamers invert their controls>
>>721355514now put the same principle for left and right
Now I'm really fucking curioushttps://strawpoll.com/NPgxebVkeZ2
>>721355772A lot of Japanese games actually do that.
>>721353131>The only 'original' it's coming from is flightstickswhile this may be true, for anyone over the age of 35 it's because of an autistic amount of hours spent playing goldeneye64
>>721352816This.>when game is 3rd person I use inverted camera>if there are 1st person moments like aiming I use normal camera
>>721355951name 5
>>721355951Name 3
>>721355951left and right rotates your view?
>>721351995What if I just move my eyes? Do I also move my eyes down to move look up?
>>721351336this is retarded because japan used to invert everything compared to the west
>>721351336I always felt this was the case. Every time a game had inverted controls by default, I called the control scheme as well as the developer a retard.
>>721351541>I also have inverted nipplesCan I see it?
>>721355963Goldeneye lets you choose between normal and inverted controls.
>>721356316Asians have lower spatial intelligence.
>>721351541>left handedKnown to correlate with lower intelligence.>sexual promiscuityKnown to correlate with lower intelligence.
>>721351336>study says that the thing you do means you're smartI knew it. Pop science is my greatest ally.
>>721356809It's saying if you do this you are retarded.
>>721356864You are the retard.
>>721351995i tilt my head to the side of the mic to breathe
>>721351995Do you tilt your head sideways to look left instead of turning your neck?
>>721357019
>>721351336>I want to look up so I turn my face up, thus I push up on the analog stickSelf-inserting>I want to turn the camera up so I'll pull back on the analog stickNo self-inserting.
>>721355514But you're not tilting any heads. At most you are controlling the sight line in 1st person games and it's completely nonsensical to invert anything. In 3rd person games the camera has no relation to any head whatsoever, since the camera position is just some arbitrary point in space following behind the character. This shit feels like you have an inability to grasp abstract concepts and must relate everything to some sort of physical reality you are familiar with, why the fuck else would you relate virtual camera controls in a video game to head movement?
>>721351995>Press stick up>Camera looks up>Press stick down>Camera looks downWhy is this so fucking hard to understand?
>>721352569>Play fps with normal setting while on foot>Get into jet>Play with inverted controls while in flight32 world governments are trying to take this away from you.
>having a preferenceWhatever the default is I'll get used to it in 2 minutes
I prefer inverted because it feels natural for a stick, like in an airplane. I'm also a pilot, but that ultimately has no bearing on it. Though there may be a connection there. People that go inverted maybe associate with an airplane's yoke? I know I do.
>>721357881settle down there, John Ace Combat.
>>721356724Why do i have the feeling that both of those results are from biased tests from 200 years ago?
>>721351336it makes sense if you imagine you're controlling a camera that's flying around the character I usually prefer not inverted camera but inverted doesnt really bother me if the game doesnt have shooting
>>721351336>move stick left>camera turns rightthat's why. Fuck boom camera controls and fuck devs who don't at least let you switch
>>721357998I wear bomber jackets in the winter and a buddy of mine calls me Maverick. Never seen either Top Gun movies. And that's all for today's blog post.
At least for the horizontal movement of the camera I generally like the camera to face the way I want the character to move when I'm running around.So if I want to turn right I need the camera to pan to the left and vice-versa.
>>721357881we're talking camera movement not actual movementDo you control cameras in that plane? I know the one that control drone cameras use up for up
>>721351336I only do it for flying games, and thats just because how I played Starfox and Terminal Velocity as a kid.I don't play shooters with a controller because that is retarded
People that invert controls don't give a single fuck about other people inverting controls or notPeople that don't invert care immensely about if other people invert controls or notWhy is this?
>>721360762>People that invert controls don't give a single fuck about other people inverting controls or notTrue, they also usually don't add the option to not have everything backward because they're sociopaths
>>721351995I know right?! Imagine pressing up to look up, and pressing down to look down. That's so messed up!
>>721351995This. I've always thought it's an IQ thing. In three-dimensional space, you tilt back to look up. On a two-dimensional plane, you move a cursor up and down, so it's not inverted at all. People who don't invert don't seem cognitively able to imagine tilt in a 3D space. I wonder if they're the same people who can't handle tank controls and static cameras.
>>721362391kek
>>721357578Wrong. Where the fuck is the camera located in a FIRST-PERSON game? When you move the camera, does your POV tilt around an axis, or go straight up and down like you're scrolling the screen?
>>721351336I copied my friend who did playing quake. I later switch to normal.
>>721357495There are no muscles in your face that will move your view up. If you want to look up you tilt your head back.
>>721362860>There are no muscles in your facedo you even lift
>>721362860Actually because there's a pivot point, it tilt both up and down
>>721351995I only invert Y with planes for some reason. Idk if it's just muscle memory or intuition.
>>721353481money well spent, invertards will never recover
>>721353781This. Flight controls are the only case where it makes sense to invert since that's how real planes work.I remember switching the Y axis in some games as a kid, but I heavily preferred the default non-inverted anyways, e.g. in Medal of Honor 1 I believe the default waa non inverted so that's how I left it.But forget about the y axis in games. What REALLY pisses me off is "natural scrolling" in macOS and newer Windows, where you scroll in the touchpad and it works like a touchscreen. If it's touch it makes sense, you are literally sliding the screen away, but when it's a regular touchpad on a non-touch screen the natural scrolling is annoying.
>>721351336makes sense. I use normal y axis and I was playing the spyro remake and I didn't even realize it inverted for the flight shit at first because my brain is normal and adapts to stuff, but it was way easier to do the flight levels after I realize it was inverted and fixed it so that up is up.Gura/Saba famously plays with inverted X and inverted Y and she's literally retarded. Like she was describing her classroom from high school once and she literally described a special ed room >>721351541subhuman faggot
>>721362391Tank controls are a non-issue for me, but I tend to use non-inverted Y axis.The thing with tank controls is more of a 'if you didn't use it years ago then good luck getting used to it now' situation.
These threads are boring. It's just people pretending to have fake arguments.
>>721363474I've only noticed that in the refurbished Chromebook that was donated to my food pantry to be used for signing in people. Only takes an instant to adjust your brain to it, or to adjust back when moving to a different computer, just like inverting controls.
How do non-invertedfags think their POV is working? This is the only thing that makes sense.
I can do either equally well. Literally makes no difference to me.
>>721363683Yeah, it's easy to adjust to it - I know.But anytime I have to fix something on someone's laptop, the first scroll with the touchpad is always a surprise.
Inverted Y is due to flight sim experience, and the legacy it left. If you use a flight stick, you pull up by pulling the stick back, which translates to "down" on an analog stick.Any claims that ignore this basic principle are faulty.
>>721363698Non-inverted people are those who have their mind blown by the egg behind sheet of paper on mirror thing.
>>721363698now do it for left and right
Inverted YNon-inverted XSimple as
>>721351995This. Airplane controls were standard forever until normies started to take over.
>>721364172I'm well aware inverted is correct for that as well, but since 99% of games don't have it I've become accustomed to the wrong way (non-inverted).
>>721363679>skub abuser is so far gone he can't even recognize genuine emotion any longer
>>721358392it meas he wants to have gay sex with you
>>721364047This is just pushing the issue back and not answering the fundamental question. It's used for flight controls for the same reason.
>>721351336This shit is why people will never respect scientists.>shall we cure cancer today?>no, lets find out how many fruit pastels we can ram down a parrots throat before it chokes to death.
>>721363283It's because you're correctly treating it like a control stick for a plane. You pull back on the stick to climb, and push it forward to dive. The only difference between normal and inverted (y-axis) players is whether or not they apply this to any analog stick. You only have to do this for a bit before it gets stuck in your brain, and I doubt most inverted players started that way, they probably did it by accident and just stuck with it.
>>721351336The only thing I have to invert is the right stick up/down aiming. Especially for shooters. I just cannot adapt to what the standard is and I have tried before. I got used to it being this way since games seemed to have it on by default iirc. If not then its probably because I played a lot of FPS on consoles in the retro years. But yeah that is the only thing I have to switch for controls usually. Any game that does not allow this is garbage to me.
>Invertedfags are trying to push their profound mental retardation on normal people again
>>721364013I agree; I rationalize it as a good brain exercise to keep plasticity.
>>721351995Moving the mouse left moves the camera left, and moving the mouse right moves the camera right. Why wouldn't the same be true for up and down.
>want to look up>retard tells me I should move down
>>721364859The Simon effect is people's ability to adapt to things being backwards. The study literally proves that inverted is correct and natural, and invertedchads are slower to adapt to non-inverted because non-inverted is fucking wrong.>>721364950This asumes sliding a cursor across a 2D plane, which isn't what happens when you tilt a camera in a 3D space. If you were to map mouse movements directly onto a camera, the entire screen would scroll up, down, left, and right.
>>721365058No, they are telling you to pull up.
>>721364432its used for flight controls because that's the directions the g-forces will take the pilot. up, pilot leans back, down, pilot leans forward.
>>721365058>look up>the back of your head moves down
>>721365105>which isn't what happens when you tilt a camera in a 3D spaceShow me your hours in your your preferred package. Surely you're actually working with virtual cameras in 3D space if you're saying this so authoritatively, right? Because I've never seen a fellow modeller use inverted X.
>>721365138PULL UP!BOGEY ON YOUR SIX!
>>721365223and the front of my head moves up dumbass
do people in favor of inverting the y-axis do so when playing with mouse and keyboard?
>>721365105>it's wrong because... IT JUST ISKWAB
>>721365440your question contains a big presumption
>>721365440No, you are, generally, controlling a pointer across a 2d plane when using a mouse. The screen mimics the surface across which you love the mouse.
>>721351336It depends on where you mentally place the axis in the 3D space. Simple as.
>>721365548then you could say the control stick is controlling the location of where you are looking as well.
>>721356202By default human eyes are installed upside down and your vision gets flipped on its way to the brain. So technically, yes, you do!
>>721365548Not true. In an FPS games the crosshair is always in the center of the screen, and you are tilting the character's head. The crosshair doesn't move. It's the same as your eyes always pointing forward and your head tilting forward or back. In something like a lightgun game, your view is static, and you are moving the crosshair across a 2D space, which is why those aren't inverted. It's literally just the difference between up and down in 2D and forward and back in 3D. Doing it on a mouse is like pulling the head forward or back like pic related.
My brain won't let me invert the controls unless I'm flying a jet or something
>your tax dollars get spent on scientists researching why gamer use inverted controls
>>721356202you are moving the BACK of your eyes DOWN when you look up. and when you turn your body LEFT you are moving your ASSHOLE to the RIGHT. get it retard???
>>721366250lol if you don't see the relevance of this in the era of fpv drones. lmao even.
>>721363698was your fist game experience with a joystick? mine was with arrows on a keyboard
>>721351336>Simon effectInteresting. We had one of these tests some time ago at work. I had no problems adapting to it and never use inverted controls. Tried it out once as a kid, thought it was retarded and never again.
>>721366461>muh dronesit's completely irrelevant, like researching why some people ride goofy vs regularfinding why the preference happens (organically, no less) won't change how people pilot their drones at all because they are still attuned to driving them one way over the other and the only important part is that they pilot them well
>>721352287I dont play flight sims and I have to invert my controls. I used to not invert them but then I started to and I cant play if moving the stick right moves the camera to the right. Sometimes Id flip flop between the 2 because I couldn't get used to one, then I couldn't get used to the other only for me to get used to one of them after changing 3 or 4 times. I dont do that anymore and just invert immediately
in fps games It's easier to pull back and look up than it is to push up and look down due to the controller position (less thumb movement) . You're never really looking down in most fps games anyway
>>721351336Invert Y on a stick, non-inverted with a mouse. Invert x on stick but only for mech games.
>>721366461I highly doubt military drones use FPV controls to fly.
>>721366948>why doesn't matterextremely low-iq take
>>721351336>Used to play with regular controls>Last time I played a first person game with a controller was Halo 3>Pick up a controller for a first person game because why not, it's not a shooter>Realize it feels weird, end up switching to inverted>Go back to mouse anywayDark Souls and a lot of other third person games usually feel better with an inverted camera, so I think that just grew on me.
>>721352287I have a fancy HOTAS setup and I do not invert my controls when using KB+M or a controller
>>721367310>no retortConcession accepted.
>>721351541And you were their brother?
>>721351336>Character's POV = Normal controls>Flying vehicle = Inverted vertical camera Ez
>>721351336I remember playing a 3D Castlevania game that no only had inverted controls as the default, but they couldn't be changed. Some devs were out of their minds back then.
>>721351336>How does it feel to play with inverted controls, retard?The Simon effect is the difference in accuracy or reaction time when action/stimulus and reaction are 'on the same side' vs 'on the opposite side.' Classic example being asking a right-handed individual to write something with their left hand; or a left-handed person to write something with their right hand. In either case an ambidextrous person is going to come out on top. Now the fun thing is; when it comes to really fine motor control, like threading a teeny tiny needle for instance, ambidextrous people will lose in time taken against a righty or lefty using their favored hand. And in cases where it comes to split second reaction and hand-eye coordination, such as catching a ball - they'll generally lose as well.What this study measured is your brain's ability to adapt and overcome ingrained conventions and handle different cases. Sort of like an ambidextrous person. What this study forgot is that people have a favored input mechanism because that works best for them and by far they will exceed performance of someone who isn't trained and specialized into that mechanism.In short - the only retards are the ones that don't use the options given to them to be at their peak performance.Invert if that works for you.Don't invert if that works for you.And don't intentionally handicap yourself - because then you'd be an ACTUAL retard.
>>721354238It does seem weird, considering anyone I've ever known who would freak out over inverted controls would need them changed, whereas others I knew who could play with inverted could usually adapt pretty quickly to either scheme.
I came from the mouse where it's the most obvious thing in the world that a crosshair moves like a cursor. So up means camera goes up, didn't even consider the alternative.
>>721367935>>721368034If Im using m+kb, I dont invert the camera. If Im using a controller, I invert both horizontal and vertical
>>721368217>I invert both horizontal>horizontal
>>721368034What games are you playing where the mouse is mapped to the crosshair?
>>721363474>What REALLY pisses me off is "natural scrolling" in macOS and newer Windows, where you scroll in the touchpad and it works like a touchscreen. If it's touch it makes sense, you are literally sliding the screen away, but when it's a regular touchpad on a non-touch screen the natural scrolling is annoying.If you think that's bad, on older MacOS macbooks the scrollwheel on the mouse was linked to the touchpad. So 'natural scrolling' extended to the mouse. Normally you pull the wheel down towards you, and the page scrolls up, as if the wheel on the bottom is pushing a sheet of paper up.In this particular fucked-up setting, scrolling the wheel towards you, scrolls the page DOWN.That is a mindfuck fighting decades of computer use you will never EVER get used to.(I used to need to use a Macbook for XCode and iOS emulation. Because Apple can't be arsed to publish proper cross-platform tools.)
>>721367665it really is that shrimple
>>721351336Back in the 80's and 90's inverted was the default control scheme. People got used to it and never changed the controls, it's not that complicated.
>>721368378How can you not see the parallel? Mouse goes forward to move the cursor up. And mouse goes forward to point at something higher up with the crosshair.
>>721368547You are never controlling the cursor at any point and it does not move. It's a visual aid to mark the center of the screen, which is always the center.
>>721368628Holy moly
>>721366043Not true. For purposes of your brain processing information, action and reaction, it is a case of target acquisition on a 2D plane still.You consider the crosshair the cursor you are moving to a location. Your brain is simply locked into a continuous feedback pattern where the 'desktop' scrolls rather than the cursor moves.
>>721365138fuck being grounded
>>721351541you can't get blown by two girls at once, retard
>>721352287This. I played a billion hours of x-plane as a kid and played inverted on controllers when I got a console.
>>721351541>fucking two sistersUnless you're their brother this isn't based, homewrecking is bad Anon
>So does this mean non-inverters are better gamers? No, says Corbett. “Though they tended to be faster, they didn’t get the correct answer more than inverters who were actually slightly more accurate.”From the article. Inverted bros win.
>>721368693Wrong. Left is what's happening in an FPS. Right is what you are suggesting is happening.
>>721351336I decided to switch to inverted controls just on a whim to see if I could learn how to use it that way. Turns out it was really easy. I played that way for like two years and then I switched back to normal.
>>721369193Dex vs int
>>721351541low IQ is correlated with biological defects, so you might actually be onto something
Because the first game I played involving that type of motion was a flight sim.
>>721351336Beats me, the only thing I sometimes need to invert inj games are the vertical camera controls. I played too much flight sims asa teen, so push cam stick forward has be the cameras equivalent of 'nose down' for me
>>721369206Now curve the screen.
>>721369657That wouldn't change anything. The point is you're controlling the point of view in 3D space, not moving the cursor across the screen on a 2D plane. It's the difference between the camera remaining static while you move the crosshair in a lightgun game, or the crosshair remaining static while you tilt the camera in an FPS.
>>721355514I'm curious how do these people live their lives. When I want to look up, I think of pointing my eyes up. Do they think of tilting their head back instead?
If you don't invert the right stick's Y axis, you're likely a 5 on this chart, i.e. a soulless NPC.
>>721352287You need to understand that /v/ is now mostly turd worlders that beat their chest about being mustard race, but they all play on shitty office hand me down keyboards. None of them have used a joystick.
>>721355514
I invert y axis because; 1. That's how a lot of games were by default in the mid 90s so it's how I learned to play 3d games 2. Because I run heavy equipment for a living and that's how all the joysticks work. Pull it towards you for up and push it away from you for down.
>>721355514>Press left>Look down>Press right>Look upNigger, what?>>721369879I don't invert shit and I'm a 1. Inverted only goes for flying controls.
>>721369853Imagine there's something above you out of view and you want to look at it. Now keep your head still and point your eyes up. That's "pointing your eyes up".
If camera controls were on the dpad, would you invert that too?
>>721370282I did on the psp
>>721370282yepYou could put the camera on the damn keyboard arrows and I'd invert it
>>721370282Yes. Tilting forward points the front of whatever you're tilting down and vice versa. The thing you have to push to make it tilt forward or back makes no difference.
>>721370417>>721370462>>721370474Nigga at this point you're pressing the up arrow to look down. Quit pretending you're the normal ones.
>>721351336I only use inverted for third person controls because most of the Ratchet & Clank games ship with inverted as the default and I've just gotten used to it over the years.For first person games i prefer non-inverted.
Do you also invert with a mouse or just joysticks?
>>721370629You are cognitively unable to imagine an object tilting up and down in 3D space. Up and forward are not the same thing.
>>721369828>The point is you're controlling the point of view in 3D space, not moving the cursor across the screen on a 2D plane.The point is that you're not. For purposes of target acquisition you are moving a mouse cursor across the surface of a spherical plane.Iirc there have been studies showing the same parts of the brain activating as with 2D target acquisition using an actual mouse cursor.
>>721370685cam on right mouse button? Inverted!
>>721351336Ever since Goldeneye I invert because it was the "accepted" way to do it. That's how I was taught
>>721370871>For purposes of target acquisition you are moving a mouse cursor across the surface of a spherical plane.You are factually not moving the mouse cursor. You are rotating the sphere, which has a crosshair on the front of it. I play FPS games without a crosshair when the option is available because my brain at no point ever things my movements have any relation to the crosshair whatsoever (because they don't).
>play starfox as a kid>later on use inverted aim on PCit just... it feels right
>>721370282Son, I played Descent on a keyboard and used inverted X/Y look on the arrow keys while using WASD for movement. Far, FAR superior for snap movements to a keyboard/mouse combination - and this was in a time when dual analog controllers were not a thing yet and joysticks were too unwieldy for the rapid response that game required.Dual keyboard full-inverted control was basically THE way to fly in that game.
>>721371007>You are factually not moving the mouse cursor.It works out as you moving the mouse, the whole scene shifting and your brain adapting to the new position. It's a continuous feedback loop.You're getting hung up on the movement on the screen, while you are forgetting the thing that matters most: the actual input modality and how your brain maps that.
>>721351995When you push your mouse forward, do you expect the cursor to move to the top of the screen or the bottom of the screen?
>>721352287I'm a N64 kid and so I'm too used to inverted Y axis.
I'm a camera man in Hollywood so I always invert it because that's how you turn cameras so camera controls I set to that.
>>721371296The screen isn't moving either. The virtual camera inside the screen is tilting forward/back/left/right.
>>721351995>anons ITT
>>721352287The studies have debunked this. People who invert are simply malfunctioning subhumans.
Iverting stick makes sense. I don't do that, but the explanations convince me.Inverting mouse is some inhuman reptoid shit though.
>>721371296 (cont.)An analogy that might help here: if you use a mouse then you aren't just tilting your head back or forward. It's a pointing device, and you are turning your head and simultaneously pointing your arm straight out at your target.If you look and point up, you move your arm up (push it further out on your desk).If you look and point down, you move your arm down (pull it further back on your desk).How your brain processes things is dependent on how the input modality is treated as an extension of your body.
>>721351336When i was a kid i did it, it just felt more natural. Maybe it had something to do with being left handed. Now i just do ut the nornal way
>>721351336that's nothing
>>721351541I also move forward/back with the mouse buttons and shoot with C
>>721351336Are we talking about camera controls? I can use either just fine, but I mildly prefer inverted y axis because it's what I'm used to. Pressing up to look down is like pressing forward to lower the nose of a plane. It just feels intuitive to me.But if it's first person, uninverted is mich better.
>>721371450>perfect gyroscopic stabilityuncanny
>"you tilt your head back to look up"you're steering the eyes nigga
>>721371669>picOw. I think I just suffered physical trauma to my brain trying to comprehend that hold.
>>721371609You're still having a disconnect between the movements and the spatial object it's mapping onto. While it's true that you're sliding your mouse across a flat 2D plane in real life, that isn't what you're doing in the virtual space. In applications where that is what you're doing (like moving a pointer across the desktop), what you're suggesting makes perfect sense. But when you move to 3D space, pushing the mouse forward is no longer going "up", it's pushing whatever the mouse is mapped to forward. If the mouse worked like you suggest in 3D then it would be the equivalent of having a railcam and sliding it up/down left/right parallel to the ground and never tilting. Pushing up would make your character go straight up in 3D space, pushing down would make him go straight down, left would make him slide left and right would make him slide right. But that's not what happens because we're not controlling the camera's position relative to the ground, we're tilting it around in 3D.
It says inverted controls, not cameraMeaning move the analog stick down to move forward
>>721371857Keep your head still and point your eyes up. Can you see above you?
>>721371919And the mouse is mapped to the focal point of the character's eyes, not to the back of his head.
when I move the mouse forward the cursor goes up, explain that
>>721371030Shit, maybe Starfox is ground zero for this for a lot of people. It's one of the earliest 3D games after all. I played it a lot and I prefer inverted.
>>721372074You're walking in the woods. You hear a bird chirping on a tree branch somewhere above you out of view. You keep your head still and move your eyes up. Can you see the bird?
>>721372198You're actually rambling now. Whatever point you were trying to prove, you didn't.
>>721371857>>721371919>>721372041>>721372074MAYBE THE POINT IS THAT PEOPLE VISUALIZE IT DIFFERENTLY AND SO THEY FIND DIFFERENT SETTINGS MORE INTUITIVE
>>721372268You're just cognitively deficient. If you were controlling your eyes in an FPS and not your head then your POV would be completely limited. You are controlling your head for the same reason you have to tilt your head back to see shit that's above you in real life.
>>721372326Calm down retard. Why are you so defensive about it?
>>721372326More accurately, low iq retards who can't rotate objects in their head tend to invert controls.
>>721372469Coincidentally, tendies tend to fall into this group.
>>721367665this, but i will also accept inverted for 3rd person games. not my preferred style, but it's easy to imagine i'm controlling lakitu.
>>721358045why would you believe anything said on 4chins of all places?
>>721351995I don't move the back of my head downwards, I move the front of my head upwards. Therefore moving upwards to look up is correct.
>>721351336I can't play anything related to helicopters or planes without inverting the controls, my brain just doesn't fucking function otherwise. Fuck inverting controls for anything else though, that shit is cancer.
>>721371669so that's why the camera is always backwards...
>>721372469It's the opposite. Notice how controls in every other industry, from airplanes to cameras etc., default to inverted. It is objectively the correct way to map 2D movements onto 3D tilt/rotation. The reality is that inverted is objectively correct, but humans can adapt to either one to the point that it becomes second-nature, and once you're used to non-inverted, inverted feels weird. But that doesn't change the fact that inverted is objectively correct.
>>721372925I'm sorry, studies have just proven you're a fucking retarded subhuman.
>>721372808You jump every time you want to look up?
>>721351336>MUH HEAD TILT YOUR HEAD IS TIIIIIIIIIIILTINGPSA for inverTards, your vision comes from your eyeballs, specifically your pupil/retina, not your fucking skull. the only reason your head tilts back or forwards is only to accommodate your eyeballs. fucking invertards LMFAO
>>721372995The study shows that inverted is natural and that people who have trouble adapting to things being backwards are the ones who have trouble adapting to non-inverted.>>721373072Put your hand above your head and look straight at it by only moving your eyes you retard.
>>721373002Moving the stick upwards kek
>>721373197You pull the stick up out of the controller to look up?
>>721368308Yes, horizontal and vertical. Like I said. I'm glad you can't read
>>721373182Your head only moves to accommodate your eyeballs. The direction the pupil is facing is what gives vision. What is so hard to understand about these simple statements of biology? oh that's right the study did say your kind is slow...
>>721373285I pull the stick out of my ass and put it into your urethra
>>721352287i landed jets in flight simulator as a kid with a joystick, but i also played console games so i never had a need to invert outside of the plane sim
>>721373361>Your head only moves to accommodate your eyeballsFunny, I can move both independently.>The direction the pupil is facing is what gives visionIs the range of motion in an FPS game the same as moving your eyeballs, or moving your entire head?
>>721351541Holy based
>>721373579Your head has to turn because your eyeballs are in sockets. If the head wasn't there as a physical limitation (like a virtual environment aka games) then the eyeballs would not need your irrelevant head tilt cope.Again, what is so hard to understand? Are you underage?
>>721372396When you turn a car, you turn the front wheels and the chassis follows. You don't turn the chassis itself. Same with eyeballs and heads.
>>721373817Imagine an x on a golfball.Moving your eyes is like moving the position of the x on the face of the ball.Moving your head is like rotating the golfball.Moving the entire golfball up and down is like moving a crosshair.These are all different things. Which one does the typical FPS do?Also, there are many Wii games that do the first and the second at the same time, like Metroid Prime 3 or RE4 Wii Edition, that have inverted camera movement combined with non-inverted pointer movement for the crosshair, BECAUSE THEY'RE DIFFERENT FUCKING THINGS.
>>721371669This is how I'm going to play AC if I ever get on it
>>721355464>Hell, the original PS1 controller didn't even have dual analog.Funny how the flight stick thing still applies considering THIS was Sony's first real attempt at dual analog.
>>721374635>both hands busyHow do you press the buttons in the middle?
>>721374702Those are for when one hand is on a stick. You can see the shoulder buttons on the left stick, face buttons on the right, so normally you shouldn't "need" the buttons in the center.
>>721374253>Moving your eyes is like moving the position of the x on the face of the ball.You are so retarded it's insane. Your eyeball movement IS rotation. That's the only way the position of the X (pupil) moves in the first place. >Moving your head is like rotating the golfball.Wrong again. Rotating the eyeball is rotating the golfball you buffoon. You already admitted this contradiction earlier saying>I can move both independentlymeaning your desperate analogy doesn't hold any water.
>>721374947If I grant you that moving the pupil is achieved by rotating the eyeball, and we move the thing you're controlling from being the rotation of the head to the rotation of the eyeball, how does this change the fact that you pull down to rotate the eyeball so that the pupil on the front of it is facing up?
>>721375091NTAI think you should stop obsessing over the motor functions, because this is simply not how you, or anyone else, looks at things. When you want to look up, you don't think about rotating your head or eyeballs this or that way. You think of moving your focus up, and the rest of the system reacts to accomodate you.
>>721351541
>>721375349When I want to look up, I think about tilting my head back, because that is actually how you look up. If i want to focus on something that is already in the upper portion of my view, I would think about moving my eyes up. But I cannot look at something above me by moving my eyes up, and neither can you, unless you can see through the top of your head.
>normalfags raging so hard about not being able to imagine apples or whatever the fuck and not understanding basic flight controls make up studies to justify being a normalfagMany such case studies.
Flying invert is fine you're moving flap/rutters, fps it isn't. It's as simple as that.
>>721375091Simple, you don't "pull down" anything. Inverters keep adding in this completely unnecessary concept. If you say you are pulling "down" on the opposite side of the pupil, someone else can just as easily say they are pulling "up" on the same side as the pupil. It's completely meaningless anyways because that has no bearing on how vision works. The pupil is facing a dot. It now wants to face a dot that's slightly higher. Which direction is the second dot? Up.Which direction does the plane of vision go? Up.Which direction should a control be pointed? Up.Very simple and logical.Simple.
>>721375515No, you really don't. The same way when you want to grab something, you don't think about contorting certain muscles. You just think of a grabbing motion, and your body intuitively does the rest.
look i grew up playing japanese games where it was the norm theres nothing more to it
every person ive ever met who inverted their y axis has been smart.
>>721374702Not sure about the PS one, but usually you do not need a hand on the cyclic (left stick) all the time
>>721351336Im old. Some of the nes games i had were the top gun ones and the y axis was inverted so i always stuck with it. Inverted makes since for that because thats how real flight controls work.
>>721352287it's notthe first flight game i've ever played was Ace Combat 3 and that was YEARS after i already played Tomb Raider 1, 2, and 3, as well as Spyro 1, 2, and 3, in all of which i've always inverted the look controls("look" cause in those games you couldn't really control the camera if not only with the shoulder buttons to rotate it left and reight, and the only free camera with the LEFT stick was only when stopping and pressing the look button specifically to look around)I am 100% sure of this cause i know i got the TR and Spyro games on release, while i got AC3 after the PS2 released.So no,it's 100% not cause of flight sims.
>>721375713You're not moving the pupil up because the pupil as always pointing straight ahead. I honestly think this is some kind of fundamental spatial reasoning thing because I fundamentally can't force myself to think the way you are thinking about this because my brain instantly recognizes that it's incorrect, from mapping your movements onto the pupils in the first place to associating up with vertically going up and not with pushing something forward when talking about a 3D space.
>>721351541Nice larp, wingsofredemption.
>>721375945Nothing is being pushed "forward". The analog stick being pushed "UP". Thats no different than me pushing the "UP" button if it was a direction pad. Also you are trying to make this sound more complicated than it is. If my pupil/retina wants to focus something in the Upper Right hand corner of my vision, then I am moving my plane of vision UP and to the RIGHT. Therefore, I would press UP and RIGHT on a direction pad, or push UP+RIGHT on an analog stick
what the fuck are you all retards talkig about flight sims and eyeballs, the reason is much, much, much simpler:in real life, to look to your right you turn your head right, and to look to your left you turn your head left, but what about up and down?SURPRISE! to look down you tilt your head FORWARD, and to loop up you tilt your head BACKWARDS
>>721368628>You are never controlling the cursor at any point and it does not moveFactually untrue. Mouse-controlled camera works by you moving your cursor, and then the game taking the cursor position and recentering the view on that, along with recentering the cursor, every frame. This is all calculated before the frame is displayed, but it's how it works under the hood.
>>721351336Retarded study by pseuds.>play starfox as a kid or other plane games>push stick forward to nose down>it is like pushing forward on actual joystick>play fps game after this>tilt gun down by pushing the end of its barrel down.It has nothing to do with being able to rotate objects in 3d space in our heads which I garuntee you I do better than drooling retards getting filtered by tears of the kingdom who use the default noninverted.Modern day academic science is larping, trying to get funding for your department.
This thread only made me want to be blown by two sisters.
>>721376292>Nothing is being pushed "forward". The analog stick being pushed "UP".You are pushing the analog stick away from you. You are pushing it forward. Moving the analog stick up would be if you were pulling it up out of the controller. The D-Pad is different because it's obviously meant to be like arrows on a 2D plane.>If my pupil/retina wants to focus something in the Upper Right hand corner of my visionBut in an FPS you aren't moving your point of focus, you're moving your entire cone of vision. Which is why it makes no sense to mentally map FPS camera movement onto your eyeballs. FPS movement is as if you are looking straight ahead all the time and rotating your head to look around.
>>721351995An artist friend of mine tried explaining it this way. The back of his head moves left when he wants to move right. So does everyone else's. It's probably just a preference.
As always, invertedfags constructing a layered argument about heads and eyeballs in an attempt to tell you that up is actually down.
>>721376590>Which is why it makes no sense to mentally map FPS camera movement onto your eyeballsRetard, that's literally what happens in real life. Do you even know what "plane of vision" means?
To you upside-downoids:If you have a list that scrolls with the right stick, do you invert up/down on that? What about moving a cursor on for example a map screen?
>>721376356Sorry anon the study says that you're a retard and that I'm smart.
>>721376590>But in an FPS you aren't moving your point of focusYes you are. The PC is just really fast at recentering it.
>>721376848Usually menu and map controls are not inverted. But since you have a more general, logical sense of the lateral movement, it isn't a big deal unless you're super amped up and your reflexes fuck with you for a moment. The average inverted player is able to link inversion to player control and standard lateral to non-player functions.
>>721376590>You are pushing the analog stick away from you. You are pushing it forward.Wrong. The analog stick is being pointed up.>like arrows on a 2D planeYour plane of vision is 2D. Try again.
>>721376838Again, if you were moving your eyeballs in an FPS you would never be able to look above or below you because your range of motion would be severely limited. It is obviously meant to be your head. It's far less intuitive to invent some kind of scenario where your eyeballs are floating in space and can rotate all the way around than it is to simply map the rotation onto your head because that's how it works in real life. The crosshair is your point of focus (where your pupil is facing), and it doesn't move.>>721376848Again, difference between sliding something around on a 2D plane and tilting an object in 3D space. Non-invertedfags appear to be unable to separate these things.
>>721376848I hold right click and pull up to bring the screen down. Checkmate, atheist.
>>721376838now do this with T. Ocellus
>>721377161So to justify your settings, you imagine a comletely ludicrous scenario where eyeballs are immobile and vision moves entirely via neck.
>>721377161>The crosshair is your point of focus (where your pupil is facing), and it doesn't moveIf the pupil can't "move" that means the entire head is now the eyeball and functions the same way. The plane of vision wants to move up and right? You press up+right on a control scheme. It's simple, retard.
>>721377607Have you played any Wii games that use the joystick to move the cone of vision and the pointer to move the reticle? Because that's how I imagine moving the head versus moving the eyeballs. Your eyeballs can't see anything that aren't already in your cone of vision. Moving the camera in an FPS is moving your entire cone of vision.>>721377727I didn't say they can't move, I said they don't move. The above example of how Wii games worked where the camera and pointer moved independently is what it would be look if you could move both.
>>721377837Cone of vision is provided by your eyeballs, not your head. Try again.
>>721378054You are so retarded that it's insane. Stand up, keep your head still, and look at your feet by only moving your eyeballs. You fucking can't. All you can do is change your focal point to things that are already within the small cone of vision that is already directly in front of you. Moving the camera in an FPS moves THE ENTIRE CONE OF VISION, it does not MOVE YOUR FOCUS TO THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY IN VIEW
>>721377837>joystick to move the cone of vision and the pointer to move the reticleThe cone of vision is provided by eyeballsThe reticle is not something that exists in real life.You can't keep your eyeballs still and focus on something in the corner of your vision at the same time. Your Wii game example is worthless.
>>721378274Keeping the camera still and moving the pointer to the corner of the screen is analogous to keeping your head still and moving your focus to the corner of your vision.
>>721378270Again, the skull does not provide any cone of vision. That is only provided by the eyeballs. Your head movement is in service to the eyeballs. Moving the camera aka the eyeballs moves the entire cone of vision. That's how it works in real life.
>>721378365It may be an analogy that makes sense to you but that's not how vision works in real life. And an analogy is just an analogy. Meanwhile I'm speaking hard facts and logic. There is no way for any human to keep their cone of vision intact yet simultaneously focus on something to the edge of that cone of vision. Therefore your Wii game example is rubbish.
>>721378442How is what is "providing the cone of vision" relevant whatsoever? Moving your head allows you to see things out of view, moving your eyeballs doesn't. The fact that your eyeballs are situated inside your head doesn't change the fact that you have to turn your head to see things.
>>721368387>Normally you pull the wheel down towards you, and the page scrolls up, as if the wheel on the bottom is pushing a sheet of paper up.it's funny because that's the opposite of a typewriter
>>721378651>Moving your head allows you to see things out of viewIt can, but that's not the only way. You can move your feet and bend your spine while wearing a neck brace. And your cone of vision will change. Because, as I've said dozens of times now, your eyeballs provide the "cone of vision". If you want to keep using this term, you need to accept this fact.
It makes more sense to play inverted.It is very rare in any FPS that you'll have to snap precision aim at a target below you, but it happens with some frequency for targets above you. It's far more natural and fast to quickly pull a mouse back towards you and aim precisely than push it away and do the same.
>>721378917What term would you prefer? Field of view? Does any of this change the fundamental fact that if you want to see something above or below you that you cannot currently see, you move your head and not your eyeballs?
There's a reason one of the settings is called "normal" and the other isn't.
>>721351995>people who aren't inverting the Y axis are fucking aliens. Everyone tilts their head back to look upYeah but they look up with their eyes. You're controlling where you're looking, not an imaginary head you fucking moron.>I'm the intelligent one, that's why I can't control any videogame character without adding an extra buffer layer between the controller and the game by having to imagine an invisible head being controlled by the stick which then controls the look.Jesus fucking christ.
>>721351336swimming and flying = z axis invertaiming and camera = without vertI'm not that into the subjectmatter, but how does the Simon study relate to fixed camera games like micromachines or tankcontrols in resident evil?The great filters for vidya seem to be moving around and controling the camera at the same time and moving a character like the aforementioned games unrelated to the 3rd personed view In that order.My parents generation utterly fails at the former. Slightly more tech savvy younger people that aren't really into videogames seem to still have a lot of trouble with the latter.
>>721379023If you move your head you are also moving your eyeballs. Thank you for playing.
>>721352287I only invert in flight, everything else normal. KH3 was terrible for this the gummy ship 3D parts were inverted but then it'd swap to a side scroller where inverted made zero sense.
>>721379205GOTTEM
>>721351336Only makes sense in Golden eye n64 and oot 64
>>721351336my dad was a pilot before he ever got into video games. He said he plays inverted because plane controls have forward = down and back = up
>>721379205Moving your head is necessary to see something above you but currently out of view. Moving your eyeballs in addition to that isn't. That is why (You) can move both independently. One is to focus on things already within view, one is to change your view completely. This is why the Wii analogy of using the stick to move the camera (head) and pointer to move the reticle (focus within your current view) makes sense and why you are wrong. Thanks for playing as well.
>>721379434>Moving your head is necessary to see something above youI just bent my back and kept my head still so I could adjust my cone of vision (that my eyeball provides) upwards. I just proved you wrong again.
Gamers once again failing to beat the autism allegations.
>>721379434Also, to repeat, moving your head = moving your eyeballs. Please brush up on human anatomy before embarassing yourself.
>>721379562No, you proved me right because you had to move something other than just your eyeballs to change your view.>>721379802Moving one changes what's in view, moving the other doesn't. Stop being willfully retarded.
>>721351336First person regular controls. Third person inverted X axis. And sometimes depending on how the game 'feels' inverted Y axis. Third person I can not get over the mental wall that I am holding a camera since I was a camera operator. To look down you have to push up, to look up you have to push down. Worst part are games that are mostly third person but have first person modes like when aiming. They almost never let you have independent control schemes.
>>721379923Your eyeballs provide the view. our skull houses your eyeballs. That's how anatomy and real life works. That's why caring about skull tilt is retarded when you should be focused on your eyeballs and plane of vision. You want to adjust plane of vision provided by eyeballs? Use simple normal logical control scheme.Also again, an analogy is just an analogy. That's why you are holding onto them while I keep spitting logic and facts.
>>721372925there's physical reasons for those control implementations actually but getting into it would involve trying to educate a moron so i'll pass
>>721376970And in effect, they are constantly switching and adapting - beating the Simon effect.Which means if you play inverted, you're actually the more well-coordinated one.Or to just cut out the middle-man entirely; the study cited by OP is faff and bunk.And everyone here is being taken for a ride.I.e. everyone here, is the retard.
>>721380285You aren't spitting logic and facts, you're just repeating "eyeballs provide the cone of vision" as if it is relevant whatsoever to the thing that is being tilted. Here is some logic and facts for you:>Tilting the eyeballs allows you to focus on things currently within view.>Tilting the head allows you to change what is currently in view.>Moving the mouse in an FPS game changes what is currently in view. It has no effect on the camera's focus regarding objects currently in view..>Therefore, tilting the camera in an FPS game is analogous to tilting the head, and not analogous to moving the eyeballs.Where the vision is "coming from" is not relevant to the question (what your mouse movements are controlling).
>>721364906Good point. Letting yourself get too used to something can end up being detrimental.
playing with controller needs to be inverted like a flight simeven in planes turning left or right doesnt make x invertedplaying on pc with a mouse i dont invert mouse for fps games, but if i were to plug a controller in i would invert yive played very few games(console) with no invert y (not included) and it takes a 1-2 hours before it just feels ok and going back to a game with invert y only takes 2-10 minutes to feel fine
It's habit. I've swapped like two or three times in my life, because I end up getting used to one way or another.>lyingtists making shit up again
>>721378857There've been sheet-drawer bottom-fed electrical type-writers where the paper passes the far side of the roller rather than the near side, actually.(I know because I'm old enough to actually have used one. Beat that, oldfags.)
>>721368387>apple being retardedBusiness as usual. The whole 'muh usability' meme is a joke when it comes to macOS.
>>721380631>you're just repeating "eyeballs provide the cone of vision" as if it is relevant whatsoever to the thing that is being tiltedNothing is being tilted. The plane of vision is being adjusted. If it's adjusted up and to the right, you should press a control up and to the right. That's simple logic. Again, moving your head moves your eyeballs. You can move your eyeballs independently but you cannot move your head independently from your eyeballs as you have falsely claimed multiple times like a retard. This is basic human anatomy. Class dismissed.
>>721380645Ditto with different video games using different control systems. I almost never change controls from their default to something I'm used to, since I want my brain to adapt and chance. The downside to this is that it's hard to play multiple games in the same genre at the same time (in my case soulslikes) because I'll keep hitting the wrong buttons for the first half hour.
>>721380962>Nothing is being tilted.Yes it is. For some reason your brain is unable to register the fact that you are rotating a camera around an axis. You aren't thinking in 3D. Everything else is downstream from the fact that you are, for whatever reason, not able to spatially comprehend what it is you are actually doing.
>>721381014That reminds me of something WORSE than that:>first title of a series uses X control scheme, it's not changeable in-game>sequel changes some buttons aroundGoing betwen titles is always a fun time trying to get used to things once again.
>>721351336>adjusting for comfort is lacking mental rotation skillsI can play a game without inversion when I have to (generally indie trash piles that don't include the option), but I choose not to because I'm an adult male in the greatest country in the world, and I don't need a loicence for inversion. I can do whatever the fuck I want. Now go pay the Ministry of Game Controls your yearly fee of 83 billion squiggles and eat a spotted dick.
>>721380962i can move my head to turn right while turning my eyes to look left retardi can move my head while my eyes can stay focused looking forward. fuck sakes there are so many npcs.....
>>721381065>rotating a camera around an axisThat's generally how an eyeball functions which is what I've been explaining but you keep saying it "doesn't matter" like a retard. Also, the point of a control scheme is to provide simple logical control. What do we want to control in a FPS video game? A head you can't see? Wrong, it's the plane of vision. If the plane of vision needs to be adjusted up and to the right, I will press up+right on analog stick.
>>721381484When you move your head your eyeballs are moving too. And you dare call me an NPC? My fucking sides. Please post a video of you moving your head while your eyeballs are perfectly still. It's impossible because your eyeballs are connected to the skull via eye sockets. LMFAO.
>>721381530The camera in an FPS game is situation inside the character's head. When you look around, it intuitively registers as moving your head around. This is completely natural to me and your bizarre idea that you are indpendently controlling your "plane of vision" as if it is something that exists separately from the character himself is not something I have ever thought in my life. There is some kind of difference in how our brains work because your explanation is completely alien to me and it seems that what's intuitive to me isn't comprehensible to you.
>>721381160Which game?
Just makes sense:>There's something on the upper edge of my screen, I will press up to focus on itAliens:>Actually I have a joystick-like growth on the back of my head and my motor functions are so atrophied I can only rotate my view by physically grabbing hold of it and tilting my head with my hands and that's why you press down instead
>>721381626You're just being a disingeneous fuck and pretending that "moving your eyeballs" doesn't mean moving them independently of your head. Just accept defeat.
how come strangers are making threads about conversations I had privately?
>>721381791Hitman went through a few control changes early.
>>721353559they cant understand the distinction dude.
>>721353559Which way do you tilt a camera to point it up?
>>721352287I also inverted X axis on FPS when playing MoH and R6 ports on PS1, they simply didn't feel right with normal controls. Never bought a PS2 or any other cat warmer that followed up cause I went straight on pc and never bothered to look back.
>>721381626we are talking aboot cone of visioneven if my eyeballs are moving slightly i can stay focused on looking at one specific spotwhether people want to say its your head or eyeballs your moving a a game its just the vision of what you can see within the screen(like how our eyes have limited fov)its like that useless talent people have where they can move/dance their body and have their head never move
>>721381761When you look at something in the upper right hand corner, you don't think about rotating or tilting anything. You just look up and to the right aka adjusting your plane of vision up and to the right. Because that is what matters, the plane of vision. Therefore, pressing a control up+right is simple and logical.>simple logic is completely alien to meObviously. That's why it's called normal controls and you use inverted like a dumbass, just as the study says.
>>721351336Does everything need to have a scientifically analyzed explanation? It's just a fucking habit. It used to be one way. Then it was another. I know. "CRAZY."
>>721351336>early 3d era controls for games varied a lot for some reason>had to get used to swapping control schemes a lot, mostly inverted camera or movement>can now adjust fairly quickly to different control schemesI blame janky video games for my good hand eye coordination
>>721381910Still waiting for the video of you moving your head independently of your eyeballs. Don't reply until you have it, retard.>>721382234If your eyeballs are moving even slightly then your cone of vision has changed. That's a fact and no amount of retarded repeated lies will change it.
>>721382261I don't think whatsoever, I just tilt my head back so I can look up. So in the video game, I naturally pull back to look up. And when pulling back pushes my head forward so I'm looking down, I immediately go into the options and change it so it works like it's supposed to. None of this is convoluted or requires any processing whatsoever like you think it seems to. The only reason I'm articulating it at all is because I have to in order to explain why I find you rmethod wrong. And it turns out the more it's explained, the more logical the explanation gets, while your explantion of "HURR UP = UP" completely falls apart under the slightest bit of scrutiny because it relies on you fundamentally misunderstanding what it is you're even doing.
>>721382546Pathetic word salad to attempt to discredit simple logic. Move the plane of vision up and to the right? Press up and right on a control. Simple as.
>>721352816No that’s not right. In this person RPGs, the camera is still inverted like you said, but in shooting games it isn’t because it wouldn’t makes sense for look right when you tilt the camera left.
>>721382746What you interpret as "moving your plane of vision", I interpret as "moving my head", because when I play a first-person game, I play them as if I am controlling a character in the first-person, as if I am the character. I don't think I am controlling a plane of vision, I think I am controlling a human body. It seems like you're unable to do this for whatever reason.
>>721352569Nice, had the clear version of that controller
>>721352569I use flightsticks inverted and controller sticks uninvertedwhat now
>>721369892>implying planes have never existed in a console settingif bringing the third world into your argument makes you feel better about being a weird outlier then, sure, but don't act like joysticks are exclusively pc peripherals or some unobtaniumfrom the blessed promise land.
>Controller = no inverted Y>Mouse = Inverted Y
>>721382817When someone taps you on your shoulder, you don't think about moving your head first. You just automatically move your plane of vision and your body naturally follows. This is how it's always worked. When you were a baby you intuitively adjusted your plane of vision with your eyeballs first. Then your head followed. This is the most basic intuition of vision control as human beings. Your sad attempt at painting this as something 'alien' is just hilarious.
>>721351336inverted vertical camera control makes it feel like I am controlling a jet instead of a video game camera and thats cool
>>721383185gottem again
>>721351336You either treat the stick as the direction you want the camera to go, or you envision it as being stuck on the back of the camera and you tilt it forward to make the camera look down.Tits or you won't read
>>721383185You're right that I don't think about it, but what runs through my head is going to be more like "I need to turn to face whoever is tapping me", not "I need to move my plane of vision". It seems like you're treating your "plane of vision" as something separate from your body, and that you're controlling this disembodied plane, whereas I interpret my view as being grounded in my body's orientation, and I am adjusting what's in view by moving my body around (in this case the head specifically).
>>721352287>people who have played flight sims invert their controls, people who haven't dont.They directly asked people that question, and showed it wasn't a good indicator of if guessing if players preferred an inverted Y-Axis or not. About 60% of gamers who said they HAVE played a flight simulator before said they Always preferred inverted Y-Axis, 20% said Sometimes, and 20% said Never. About 60% of gamers who said they HAVE NOT played a flight simulator before said they Always preferred inverted Y-Axis, 20% said Sometimes, and 20% said Never.Pic related, in cause you think I'm making it up.
The back of your head tilt argument is weird to me because your eyes aren't in the back of your head. They're in the front. You could just as easily say you point your nose up to look up and it would make more sense.
>>721383636Plane of vision is not separate from your body, it comes from your eyeballs. However it is the priority for vision. The upmost priority. Every human on earth focuses on what they see at most times, not the particular orientation of their skull and eyeballs. Except maybe a cyborg like you. That's why the simple logical control for a plane of vision is both considered normal and best.
>>721384095I've explained many times why it makes no sense to associate the rotation of the camera in a first-person game with your eyeballs, but I'm just going to accept this as an impasse that can't be bridged. It'd be great if someone can actually get to the bottom of this one day. I'm particularly interested in if there's any correlation between this and adaptability to tank controls and aphantasia. Ultimately it doesn't matter but I still want to believe there's a right answer (and that it's mine and that everonye who disagree is faggot).
The prevailing reason for one or the other is just being used to it.It's literally just habit, nothing else.
inverted x and y feels fine
>inverted diagonals>non-inverted cardinals
>>721384332You already admitted that you don't think about your body consciously when someone taps on your shoulder. Because it's not the most important. What's important is your plane of vision. It's the first thing you saw as a baby and you learned the muscle memory to move your body ways to adjust that plane of vision in varying ways. The human body is complex. I have studied it. The skull is not a freeform camera. The skull has two different joints for tilting and rotating. An analog stick only represents rotating at a static axis. Already there at step 1 you have unrealistic and partially intuitive controls of a human skull. Which is why normal people will just focus on what actually matters for vision, the plane of vision stemming from eyeballs. And the simplest way to control that plane of vision is the best. Adjust vision up and to the right? Press up and right button or point analog stick up and to the right.
>>721351336>simon effecti am dumbfounded. intuitively, a physical upward input corresponds to a virtual upward action
>>721372469it's the exact opposite
Playing inverted would make me vomit, but I call.be on this "study". Rotating a camera "up" actually means reducing its local rotation angle on that specific plane, while rotating it down increases it. Same with two-finger scroll on trackpads. It's just the mental focus on outcome or vehicle towards outcome.
>>721351995When I look up, I'm focusing my eyes on a point higher up, which involves a vertical translation. My neck muscles are irrelevant.
>>721385094Ok Anon, that obviously makes the most sense to you but I will continue to instictively associate pulling my head back to look up and pushing my head down to look down and keep inverting my controls. Luckily games allow both. Since the study seems to show the brain is adaptable to either one though, all of those could just be explained by the fact that my first 3D games were on N64, which were all inverted-aim by default from what I remember. I do feel that it makes more logical sense as well though.
>>721351336I can't remember which game it was. Either Goldeneye or Halo:CE, but it was around then when I started inverting the camera on all console games going forward. Just feels natural to me now. The weird thing to me would be someone inverting their mouse.
>>721385168The Simon Effect test only has to do with things on the left or right. Upward input isn't even possible, let alone upward action.
>>721372469>non-inverted retard says retarded shitlike cockwork
>>721385376It's not about making sense it's about facts and simple elegant logic. Want to move plane of vision up and to the right? Press up and right buttons.Point stick up and to the right. Move mouse up and to the right.Drag a finger on the screen up and to the right.Every human, scratch that, living being with cone of vision prioritizes plane of vision over body orientation.
>>721355197The industry standard went from inverted to standard. People who could adapt adapted, and people who couldn't insist inverted is the only way to play.I'm so adaptable that I don't even have a problem with inverted horizontal if that's the default. You're just coping because you've got old man brain
>>721385735Moving the "plane of vision" up and to the right to me would be like taking a camera pointing straight ahead and panning it vertically up/right, not tilting it to look up. I still think you're fundamentally misunderstanding how objects work in 3D space, but whatever you say, Anon.
>>721385842You would tilt a camera to achieve that but the human head is not a camera. It has limitations on tilting and rotation.
>>721385932>It has limitations on tilting and rotation.If you skipped neck day, sure.
>>721385932A camera lens points forward. The eyes point forward. You tilt a camera back to point the lens up. You tilt the head back to point the eyes up. The range of motion is irrelevant. The motion itself is the same. You are controlling a camera in a 3D space, not a cursor on a 2D plane.
>>721385973What an unfunny concession. You may leave the thread now.
>>721386047The environment is 3D but the plane of vision is 2D. For virtual control of the plane of vision, the simplest logical control is the best.Want to move plane of vision up and to the right?Press up and right buttons.Point stick up and to the right.Move mouse up and to the right.Drag a finger on the screen up and to the right.
>>721385168Ig you're holding a controller flat in what sense is pushing it forward and away from you "upward"?Is this actually about how level you hold a controller?
Why is everyone saying tilt?
I lift my chin to look up. Simple as. You don't consciously pull your neck muscles to move your head
>>721386198You are not moving a plane of vision across a 2D plane, you are rotating sphere with a crosshair on the front of it. I'm no longer participating in this conversation because you don't seem able to comprehend what I am saying.
>>721386482The plane of vision is 2D.The environment is 3D.This is the same both in real life and 3D virtual worlds.I am sorry you couldn't learn a single thing after an entire thread. Typical inverted.
>>721386449Not to mention you don't push the back of your head up to look down anyway. You pull the front down
>>721386247>he doesn't tilt his mouselmao
When I push the joystick right I want to look rightWhen I push the joystick up I want to look upI'm not playing fucking QWOP, I'm playing a video game
>>721386712you won bro
>>721351336Some people are retards so they invert their controls. Didn't need a study. See the retard 4 posts down from OP.
>>721351336Why does Wind Waker invert X but not Y? That's the real question.
>>721352287This. It all started with Star Fox for me. And a few other older games had inverted controls too, since that early generation of 3D developers all experienced the the flight sim effect.
>>721355963it's inverted by default.
Nobody can even agree what counts as "inversed" means, anymore. It completely fucked my muscle memory, and now EVERYTHING feels terrible.
>>721354591ok but why? I had a snes n64 gamecube xbox pc and I played inverted until switching to pc. Now I can play both inverted and normal
>>721388564Because you are a normal personInvert retards have a special brain defect as proven by the study.
I think inverted or not they have their own reasons and approachWhat I don't understand is how some games have option to invert individual axisAre there people who really just invert one axis?I can't warp my head around it
>>721351336It's this simple anon.
>>721388710ok but were early n64 games inverted by default?>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ToL4JiyRDUnvm this makes a lot more sense now thanks nintendo
>>721351336i always knew inverted niggas were retarded
>>721388724
>>721351336You left out the additional context that the non-inverters were less accurate.Basically, the non-inverters impulsive retards that quickly resolve to incorrect solutions.
What about people that can do both? It literally takes me a second to adjust. When you get the reversed controls in smash bros, I'll run the wrong way once, then continue to play like nothing is happening.
>>721383064To be fair, it's not like the days when space combat games were all over the place and a PC gaming staple. Back then, joysticks were literally some of the cheapest peripherals around.The genre's mostly autism now though, and there's not much of an entry-level market. It's either absolute garbage that's not even what you'd want, or sim-level autism design.
>>721388976except no one scrolls left to aim right
>a study saysWow cool, three out of five (we only tested five people) said this thing so it MUST apply globally regardless of genetic or mental factors!!!
>>721351336Didn't read the thread, but wouldn't that be mostly because people who invert are likely to be older?>>721363579Flying should be inverted.
>>721392331nah, ever since crimson skies I found flying where up is up is easier
>>721392331Age correlated weakly. Better than most other factors, but very far behind the Mental Rotation test and Simon test response times.
>>721371919If I'm going to justify standard controls, the mouse is an aiming device. It's mapped to the tip of my gun. But I don't need to justify it because it's just a camera control scheme.You on the other hand say standard users are deficient when you're the one who needs to imagine you're physically grabbing your character's head because you aren't capable of abstract thought I guess
People who push forward on stick will invert their controls, because forward is associated with looking down. Lean your body or head forward, and you'll be looking down. Lean back, and you'll be looking up.Some people don't understand that they are pushing forward, however. They think the are pushing up, because they are unable to think beyond a 2D plane.Inverted: Forward is down, backward is up.Non-Inverted:Up is up, down is down.People who think in terms of up-and-down rather than forwards-and-backwards are generally low-IQ individuals. They think in two dimensions and struggle with spacial reasoning.
>>721392140https://cognitiveresearchjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s41235-025-00626-5#Sec10They tested 170 people and they don't claim that their conclusions are a global truth now.>We hope that this work serves as a foundation for many future investigations of user-inspired, real-world problems and helps to bridge the gap between academic and applied knowledgeBut feel free to get mad at your made-up scenarios because you're probably some American retard and you hate le science.
>>721393181Then why does basically no-one invert the X-axis even if they're so superior in spatial reasoning? Are they thinking in 3D or not? Sounds like a bullshit theory to me.
>>721351336I invert fps controls because I grew up playing GoldenEye and perfect dark. Sue me
Coming through with a classic.
>>721392691Yeah I noticed the max age was 35. I bet if they polled all gamers, age would correlate better. And old people would also have lower results on the cognitive tests. I guess they could control for that.
>>721393827This would also imply inverted horizontal, but inverts typically only lock to vertical
>>721352569>>721352287Okay, why not just invert it for flight sims and leave it normal for everything else?
>>721386743>Not to mention you don't push the back of your head up to look down anyway. You pull the front downthis shatters the invertniggers reality
>>721394162A lot of people do, me included.
>>721352287I grew up with Tie Fighter and a flight stick and inverted when not flying or underwater makes zero sense to me. It feels like garbage, especially on a mouse.
>>721351336I never invert and in fact find it extremely counter-intuitive, tho I couldn't really tell you why I feel this way, I just do, if I move the stick and the camera doesn't immediately follow my desired movement it makes it almost impossible for me to play.
>>721352287Inverted was actually the industry standard in the N64, PS1 and Dreamcast days, the mode we use nowadays only became common during the Gamecube, PS2 and XBOX days, I've been gaming since the NES and I can tell you I could NEVER get used to inverted.
>>721355772yeah, I do.y-inverted (aka correct)x-inverted (aka also correct)
>>721369657actual mouth breathing retard
>>721371919he's not going to get it anon, he's just going to just defend his inability to comprehend what you're saying no matter how you tell him.
>>721351336if inverted good enough to fly a plane then why on earth wouldnt it be good enough to move my camera?
>>721353862you arent pushing the stick up, you're rolling it forward
inverted is the normal wayeven for fps games it makes the most sense
>>721397147now do right and left
If I can reload my gun with X why couldn't I have a different mental abstraction for looking around than whatever input scheme any given anon thinks is the correct one?
>>721397272what are you getting at?left and right is turning your body left and right
Inverted is real shit, regular is for xbox 360 zoomies
>>721397480
I just play with whatever the stock controls are.
Black people and Mexicans started to play games so they made it idiot proof.
>>721363698If I want to look to the left, I move my head to the left. If I want to look to the right, I move my head to the right. If I want to look up, I specifically do not move my head down.
>>721368034>inverted penises are console babies That makes a lot of sense.
>>721397272>>721397652Have mercy on that brainlet, anon.
>>721351336It's just about whether you visualize moving your nose or moving the top of your head. That's it.
>>721351336people who invert are soulless bugmen
>>721386047You would rotate your wrist up instead of twisting the camera backwards because as a cameraman it's better to have a slightly altered angle than to adjust to a less stable grip. There's no "joystick" behind your wrist, it's just your muscles pulling your wrist towards themselves, which if anything is the opposite of inverted. Dumb analogy.>>721366761For me it was isometric games. If I wanted to pan the screen up, I would either press the up arrow key or move my mouse to the top of the screen, and that has always stuck. I'm not controlling someone's head, I'm controlling the screen in front of me.What's funny is there's no confusion when I fly a drone (which goes the direction I point it at) or an actual plane (which isn't fucking comparable to twiddling your thumb on a joystick), so it seems more likely that the study is telling the truth and it's the invertedfags coping with their lack of mental plasticity.
>>721351995>he self insertscuck
>>721352287This. I played a flight sim when I was a kid, and always associated "up is down and down is up" in a First person perspective and stuck with it.
>>721397480 Yeah but that’s the thing-if you’re accepting forward/back to be an abstract movement of viewpoint rather than literal head movement, why wouldn’t that abstraction also apply sideways? Nobody is cranking their torso IRL to glance left in a shooter. It’s all virtual head rotation. You either embrace the cockpit metaphor or you don’t. Pick one.
>>721367270What do you think they use?
>>721351336Shit. I invert the camera in third-person games because it feels more natural in movement.
>>721362391Also the same people who completely crumble to dust and can't understand the Nintendo button layout, because they only comprehend a controller in terms of how you look at it head-on, instead of how your thumb comes in from the right.
>>721351336>studies suggest that [normal human behavior] actually bad and [aberrant degeneracy] goodAre we still on this rerun?
>>721351336The only battle we lost was that videogames are now 16:9 instead of 3:2 because of Asians.
>>721400969No-one said anything like that. There's no value judgment of either system.RETARDED AMERICAN! Why are so many of you like this?
>muh head>muh eyesThe camera in a first person game is not a body part. It's not even a tangible thing. Not to mention that turning it turns your entire character, not just the head
Starfox on Super NES had y axis inverted by default.
>>721371334Why is Nintendo like that?I'm recently playing some of their old games and this is the thing i hate the most.Just let me change out of the inverted controls...
>>721402326It makes sense, at least visually. In third person games, you're rotating a camera around a character. In FPSs, you're aiming a cursor.
>>721381791Kings Field does that.There are even different controls between regions.
>stick on back of the head>left is turn right, right is turn left>stick on top of head>left is lean left, right is lean rightWhich is it inverties? Maybe if you didn't need to imagine your control stick as a physical part of your character you wouldn't be stuck with this contradiction. God knows what you imagine the other control inputs as
>>721404621Why not actually play games instead of making threads about how people who actually play games do it?
>>721351336Thanks for letting me see the sheer rage from invertfags, OP.
>>721352287For me, it depends on whether I'm using mouse or stick.Mouse, I play normally.Stick, I invert.I think it has to do with the perspective of the input.The mouse feels like I'm moving the thing directly, so movement is normal.Stick feels detached, like I'm pushing on the back of something to move the front, so plane controls feel better, and I invert.
>>721400483>Pick one.No.The tilt forward/back is more intuitive apparent than the nonsense you're pushing, and that's all that matters
>>721397998>If I want to look up, I specifically do not move my head down.But you move it back.Maybe that other anon (I'm a retard and can't find the post) was right about it correlating to understanding tank controls.Inversion anons aren't thinking up and down, they're thinking forward and back.
>>721406738>disagreement is rageI know 4chan is vitriolic by nature, but I think being so brainrotted that you have to reduce everything to "you're mad abd I'm not!" sometimes even along fucking tribal lines (see: tendie vs snoy) is retarded and the death of intelligent discussion
>>721404621I think the reason inverted X isn't as intuitive might be because there's no stopping point for the X axis rotation, but there is for the Y axis. So it would be like pushing the entire camera left or right around a sphere, while the Y axis would be like tilting the camera up and down.
>>721351541Fucking lmao
>>721412669In third person, I can understand it (but don't use it) because of the mentality of orbiting the camera in that direction (despite the camera turning to face the opposite direction).
The confusion around the x-axis is easily explained once you drop the "lever on the back of the head" nonsense and start viewing the stick inputs as forward and back instead of up and down. Inverted feels intuitive to some people because their brain is trying to map the stick to the muscles that move their head.When you look left, the muscles that contract are on the left side of the body.When you look right, the muscles that contract are on the right side of the body.So they input left to look left and right to look right.When you look down, the muscles that contract are on the front of the body.When you look up, the muscles that contract are on the back of the body.So they input forward to look down and back to look up.
>pull joystick down>my character doesn't jumpwtf kojima
>>721351336People who play flight sims non-inverted are mutants who should be put to the fucking sword.
>>721372445I'M NOT DEFENSIVE I JUST THINK IT'S A DUMB CIRCULAR ARGUMENT
>>721372469I think it's more likely that inverting controls demonstrates a better intuitive understanding of 3D space, because invertanons are automatically thinking "forward and back" whereas non-invertanons are thinking "up and down" on a basic 2D axis.Maybe you're the low-IQ retard.
>>721351336>” So does this mean non-inverters are better gamers? No, says Corbett. “Though they tended to be faster, they didn’t get the correct answer more than inverters who were actually slightly more accurate.”
>>721414425So you're saying they can't abstract the action in their minds and have to directly tie it to conscious use of their muscles in real life? How does this affect their reaction times?
>>721412669That's retarded, your view doesn't spring back to center when you release the stick. If that were a factor, inverters would play uninverted in games like Descent and Dusk.
>talking about controller config with coworker>he plays with nothing inverted>says you just push the stick up and you look upJust can't wrap my head around it.I've always played with inverted Y axis. I visualize it like helicopter controls: tilt back and you look up, tilt right and you move right. Only thing that intuitively makes sense to me. At least for first and third person camera views.
>>721415710In a helicopter you're controlling the helicopter, not the pilot's head. You can look around in a cockpit all you like. I don't think "I am the helicopter" when I'm flying in a game. I think "I am the pilot, and I have my hands on the controls". So when I'm on foot, I don't think I'm flying a helicopter.
>>721415470>So you're saying they can't abstract the action in their minds and have to directly tie it to conscious use of their muscles in real life?NTA, but no, you don't have to tie it to your own muscles. It's more like you're puppeting a character and subconsciously thinking about the forces on them in the game.I have average reaction times (below average for a gamer), but an above-average grasp of control schemes.
>>721415710>Just can't wrap my head around it.If you used it for a while you'd grasp it. I can do both (switching between has a muscle memory adjustment period though), but the study said that the people who "sometimes invert" were the slowest of the lot, so... shit.
>>721415470No, it's not a conscious thought, it's an innate characteristic of how their brain interprets abstract commands such as "look up" or "look down."
