Is Ian Flynn a good writer for Sonic?
>>722211582Nah, he's just marginally better than Pontac and Graff, but still bad
>>722211582So does Sonic just have one giant eyeball or what's going on there?
>>722211669I liked Colors writing I thought it was refreshing....
>>722211669>>722211954The mondo media guys?
>>722211752it's supposed to be two, conjoined, but the model is just dogshit
>>722212235Yeah, the same ones, they wrote for Sonic during the past decade, but they didn't know shit about the series and didn't care enough to know, so their stories were often nonsense with cringy jokes all over the cutscenes
>>722211582No.Next question
>>722211606wow.......I'm literally on the verge of tears
>>722212604How can you read this foggy text
>>722211582I really don't care desu
>>722211669Honestly I think even that's stretching it. It's not so much that it's better, it's just that his shit writing is different to their shit writing.
>>722211669I'm honestly almost starting to prefer those two, because at least their lack of Sonic knowledge meant no retarded retcons (No humans/two worlds was a higher-up decision) and no shitty forced references every other line, and they were almost universally reviled instead of having a cult of personality like Ian does.
>>722211752He has two eyes stylized as one.Just like how his legs don't turn into literal wheels when he runs fast. He's a cartoon character.
>>722212834Try not being a mobilefag.
He's slowly making Amy irrelevant, so yes.
>>722211582Honestly I'm much more of a fan of Amy being Sonic's stalker who he puts up with cause she's hot. Like that's just a fun character you can play around with rather than just, kinda nothing?
>>722211669>marginally better than Pontac and GraffI'm not even sure about this. I guess his ideas and concepts are "bigger" than what those two came up with (which was mainly generic saturday morning cartoon-tier stuff), but the actual execution of those ideas is just as flawed. Where I spent most of the time rolling my eyes at Pontac and Graff's lame jokes, I now roll my eyes just as much at Flynn's lame references and needless verbosity.You'd think a writer would aim for a general "less is more" approach when comes to Sonic dialogue, specifically for the sake of pacing, but I guess building a career off of comic book writing has trained Flynn to do the opposite. A lot of the revised dialogue in the Generations remaster made me wonder why they even bothered, considering several lines held the same exact purpose, just with more words (which in turn caused the re-recorded dialogue to sound rushed just to match the animations). Also his defense of changing the small bits of Generations' visual humor like in OP was just dumb. In trying "improve" Amy's character he just watered down Sonic's (or even Amy herself in certain instances). I guess the guy forgets sometimes that he's writing for cartoon animal people, it's okay for them to do silly things sometimes.
>>722213887>In trying "improve" Amy's character he just watered down Sonic's (or even Amy herself in certain instances). I guess the guy forgets sometimes that he's writing for cartoon animal people, it's okay for them to do silly things sometimes.He just wants Amy to be "strong independent female" now.
>>722213938Then someone should remind him that having "strong female" characters act fallible now and then only makes them more endearing.
The best! I regret that I haven't checked out the story in the latest Sonic games, but I hear they're very good from japanese fans.
>>722213938>>722214151I can understand not liking the way Ian Flynn writes the way certain characters talk or references and shit, but Flynn has already said main story beats and shit are done by Sonic team, Ian himself has complained that a reason why he doesn't like Amy fawning for Sonic is cause the devs will never give it any pay off(at the time anyway let's see how the movie writers influence them with the new one)Like OP's bait isn't a scenario where the based Japs keep Amy as lovey dovey, Sega and Sonic team made the change and that's what we gotI mean as an Amy fag, if I'm reading the tea leaves and position of the stars right, I think it's more likely now that SonicxAmy shippers will get a payoff with this dynamic then previous versions
>>722211582No. He's unwilling to listen to criticism or accept anything but his "correcting canon" way. The only thing controlling him is Sega. I prefer even Pontac & Graff, because since they knew nothing, they also didn't have a disruptive off-mainstream vision they tried to enforce. Ian's lingering influence will leave this franchise in a much worse state, when he's forced out.
>>722214671He has balls to say to his boss' face "establish canon or I will".
>>722214671Amy is still more lovey-dovey in Japanese, so yes, Ian is to blame.
>>722211582I think he's fine. not perfect but also some of the issues I have with him are possibly caused by Sega getting weird about Sonic so I don't judge too harshly
>>722213938But she's not even "le stronk womyn", she's literally a nothing character at this point
Ian Flynn’s writing is just references
>>722211582All girls are Amy Rose in disguise.
>>722211669yeah, ian isn't good but he's still better than what we had, which is a good start. But then again, Sonic was never written well.
>>722214962Why would she need to hide herself from me? :(
>>722211582He feels like he should be but so far he has not been measuring up.Eggmanfags in particular have been hyping up how cool he's been in Flynn's comics for years, then Frontiers comes out and he ends up with one of the most boring portrayals he's ever had.
>>722214671>Sega and Sonic team made the change and that's what we gotThe way he defended those cutscene changes on his little podcast thing (e.g., Amy shoving Knuckles into a tree and Sonic literally keeping Amy at arm's length) really made it seem like they were things he specifically suggested to be changed, since they were "better for her character" or whatever, somehow.
>>722215090Because she's Sonic's girlfriend only.
>>722215118>then Frontiers comes out and he ends up with one of the most boring portrayals he's ever hadI feel like that could apply to most of the characters in Frontiers.
>>722215224But enough about Blaze...
>>722215120He also wanted Stix too be canon but Sega went out of their way to scrub any depiction of her in any recent official media. Pic related was official but Sega noped out and replaced her with Blaze later despite Ian clearly liking her(based btw love Sticks)Sega and Sonic team have final say on canon, Ian is just a glorified translator
>>722211582>Amy has gone from lusting after Sonic to lusting after human cockThe best writer.
I think Ian Flynn is full of hot air. I will wait until Frontiers 2 to judge his writing. He tried to write "QUOTE UNQUOTE" character growth stories for the characters in Frontiers. If it goes anywhere then I'll ease up on his writing style. If not, if we're still in the same stagnant "member this? member that?" Characterization then yes he will be the worst Sonic writer in my eyes
>>722214671>Ian himself has complained that a reason why he doesn't like Amy fawning for Sonic is cause the devs will never give it any pay offSuch a dumbass reason. Eggman and Sonic will never end their feud. Tails will always be the sidekick that looks up to Sonic. Knuckles will always be sitting around defending a big rock. They're basic cartoon characters, this isn't batman where robin can become nightwing or some other main character can die before the eventual reboot
>>722214238The story for Frontiers is good, but from what I've read, the Japanese script is Google Translate tier crap compared to the English script, which was made first.
>>722215804Sorry anon but>Amy will never scoredoes not sound nearly as endearing as the other stuff you listed
>>722215804He's just pissed he can't use Sally, and if she can't have Sonic no one can.
All of the "Noooooo Amy's ruined" backlash rings hollow Everyone fucking HATED Amy in Sonic Adventure and Heroes. Back then it was rarer to see anyone mention her without complaining about how annoying and stupid she acted
>NOOOOO AMY IS A LITTLE KID THAT USED A THINGAMAJIG DEVICE TO GROW UP BUT SHE'S STILL A KID IN HER HEADsounds like a retarded american comicbook issue I don't see why I have to give a fuck
>>722211582is sonic gay?
>>722211752
>>722211606There's nothing wrong with changing yourself.
>>722211582He’s fine, doesn’t really get Sonic as a character though. Falls into the western writer trap of trying to make Sonic learn morals.>>722213147>Amy has a playable role in Frontiers>Amy has replaced Knuckles as “the third guy” in IDW>Amy is going to be the main focus of the next Sonic movieAmy’s more relevant now than she’s ever been.
>>722216175Yeah
>>722216253That was a somehow gayer version of the dobson comic about satam cartoon metroid, peach and mario
>>722211954Colors is fine becuase it was just being safe since Sonic Team was still trying to clean Sonic's image after Unleshed failed to do that, and there's nothing safer than a simple saturday morning cartoon story for Sonic.Anything more complicated than that, and the writing falls apart, resulting in dogshit like Lost World and Forces.
>>722216128That is a comic story. From Archie.
>>722215479>Ian is just a glorified translatorI mean, we know that's not the case. Yeah, Sega make the final call because it's their IP, but Flynn still makes direct suggestions to Sonic Team that they end up using (like Chaos having ties to the Ancients), and Frontiers' script was written in English first as the "primary" script, with it being later localized for Japan afterwards. He has a bit more sway than the typical English localizers/writers that's worked on the series in the past.
>>722216253There is if you change it for someone else you underaged brat
>>722216052Crazy Amy had her fans but it was mostly in spite of her obsessiveness.
>>722216385That's what I said Anon, thanks for your input.
>>722211582No. He's a faggot that is ruining characters, IP, etc.
>>722213887I theorize that this has something to do with the fact that Ian took collage writing classes.
>>722211606Me when the schizophrenia kicks in.
>>722216497Ian Flynn writes like those comments you'd see under youtube videos of Sonic music.
>>722216359Lost World’s writing isn’t that much different from Colors. It had a little higher stakes but the boss dialogue is nearly identical. Forces was inspired by SATAM; a literal Saturday morning cartoon.
>>722216052Amy was annoying and stupid. Now she's a boring non-entity. Neither are good.Boom Amy still the best rendition of the "peppy girl with a short fuse" concept the series has had next to her depiction in SA1.
>>722216052>Everyone fucking HATED Amy in Sonic Adventure and HeroesJust like "everyone hated" Big and Shadow and Omega and Tails and the entire rest of the sonic cast, right?That did seem to be one of the trendy things back then
>>722214792>>722214828>>722215120>>722216046At this point, Sega should fire his bitch ass. He has no right to treat Sega like shit.
>>722216694To be fair, when you're getting your shit kicked in by every video game franchise and company at the time, it was kind of necessary to shit on everything but Sonic and maybe TailsSonic had a rough time switching to 3d, you know?
>>722211582this was a sega mandate
>>722216618>Boom Amy still the best renditionFuck no. She was boring there as well (just like everything else in that verse)
>>722217014
>>722216694>Just like "everyone hated" Big and Shadow and Omega and Tails and the entire rest of the sonic cast, right?Why the quotations? People DID dislike most of the cast back then. Either because they were yet another new character with a boring/annoying personality and crappy dialogue, or because they were tied to some shitty gameplay style that was forced onto the player.Sonic Team didn't exactly give people a whole lot of reason to actually like the extended cast at the time. I guess this is hard to grasp for those born in the mid-2000s, whose attraction to certain characters comes more so from later comics or fan works.
>>722217014That shit doesn't work any Ian>M-M-Muh Mandate Isn't a good excuse anymore
>>722211606Uhh...
>>722217075Fuck yes. The Boom versions of the characters are one of the few times where the main cast felt like actual dynamic characters who naturally bounced off each other, probably because they were handled by people who had actual experience with ensemble writing.
>>722217148You have every right to be mad. Get right at the mad people.
>>722211606Really dumb comic. Amy very much was super toxic and changed to be a much better person. Person who made this comic is massively coping.
>>722212934Then fuck off
>>722217312>The Boom versions of the characters are one of the few times where the main cast felt like actual dynamic characters who naturally bounced off each other...because all of their unique identities where removed and replaced with tropes that you found easier to understand
He saved it, though.
>>722213147He's slowly exposing himself as a shit writer while everyone else can write Amy fine
>>722216612True, but they really fucked the execution of Forces' story. It wanted to be serious, but didn't commit to it, so every stake they tried to introduce had no weight. And I mean, yeah, it's a fucking game for kids, but titles like the Adventures, Unleashed, and the story book games at least tried to be compelling and make you care.That's what I meant by when they try to make anything more complicated than borderline Discovery Kids level story, they fumble the bag hard.
>>722213149Too bad Americans are hypocritical pussies who can't handle immature cartoon characters acting weird
>>722217141>Why the quotations?To mock your hyperbole.>People DID dislike most of the cast back then. Either becauseBecause it was a funny early-age internet meme to clutch at straws attempting to find every little way that the Sonic of the time was infinitely worse than the Sonic of yesteryear. Which still had a dozen of side-characters that none of them would ever name.You're citing and defending a bandwagon that was trying to manufacture outrage over Omochao.
>>722217437He didn't do shit but poorly copy other people's work
>>722211582Is this the guy who wrote the interactions in CrossWorlds? If so, why did he make Shadow such an over the top asshole in this game? He literally threatens to murder Charmy.
>>722217398Anon, we're talking about Sonic. The writing has almost never been a high point, and the characters were almost never more than "tropes that are easy to understand", especially in the years before Boom.
>>722217634Because Sega wants Shadow to be an overly confident jerk, a la Vegeta.
>>722216052Everyone was a fucking retard who misinterpreted dialogue in games for children and hated anyone who couldn't spindash. People still think she was going to lock him in the jail cell in SA2 because sonic fans are fucking retarded
Archie is best
>>722217379Maybe the comic just wasn't made for you, Ian.
>>722217312Because the dogshit writers were making furry Seinfeld instead of an actual goddamn sonic cartoon. And that wouldn't even be so bad if we didn't have a legion of dildo sucking faggots who didn't even watch the show outside of clickfarming clip compilations on youtube, insisting boom amy be back ported to the main series instead of dying like the fucking wii u did, so now we got sega's half-baked shitty copy of an already bad adaptation
>>722217591>To mock your hyperbole.I'm not that anon.>Because it was a funny early-age internet meme to clutch at straws attempting to find every little way that the Sonic of the time was infinitely worse than the Sonic of yesteryear. You clearly weren't even around back then. And the Sonic of the time WAS worse than the Sonic of yesteryear, with the constant addition of new characters with crappy dialogue tied to Sonic Team's insistence on their crappy genre roulette contributed to that. Like honestly, what reason there to actually like a character like Big the Cat when his only appearances at the time consisted of the worst portion of SA1 and the "baby mode" for Heroes? Why would people like Cream when Advance 2 framed her as "Tails but even easier", on top of the fact that she was a little girl in a series where the main demographic of fans at the time was tweenage boys?Why would people like the Chaotix when they were tied to the worst part of Heroes? And with Charmy's annoying voice that played constantly?Why would people like Silver when his debut was one of the worst games in the series, with his own gameplay in said game being horribly unpolished?The dislike didn't spawn from nothing. Sonic Team brought it upon themselves. Blaze is pretty much the only new character from that era that came away partly unscathed because she didn't have annoying dialogue in Rush and she played just like Sonic. What a shock.
>>722217379That ugly karen bobcut is where the issues began. Amy wasn't toxic until sega dropped out of the console race and started shitting out shovelware
>>722218506>Amy wasn't toxic until sega dropped out of the console race and started shitting out shovelwarenever disagreed?
>>722217692If these characters are so simple, why are they so difficult for westfaggots to write for?
>>722218572Because half want them to be silly and goofy, half of them want more Archie. And you never know what half you'll get.
>>722218204>Because the dogshit writers were making furry Seinfeld instead of an actual goddamn sonic cartoon.Anon, the writers were doing exactly what Sega asked them to. Sega is the one who wanted a "furry Seinfeld", and when you're working with barely any budget, that's going to result in a show that's more dialogue-centric than anything else.>now we got sega's half-baked shitty copy of an already bad adaptationI'm not even what you're trying to say here. Modern Amy isn't some weird carry-over of Boom Amy, Flynn isn't trying to write anything like that. Boom Amy at least maintained her crush on Sonic. As far as Flynn's concerned, she's over Sonic as of Frontiers.
>>722211954Color's writing is passable because it's simple enough. Eggman makes amusement park in space, sonic and tails go to investigate, learn he did the same thing he always does with aliens, sonic and tails helps them escape. The unfunny humor is ignorable for the most part, and sonic shoving tails into the escape pod, trying to outrun a black hole and then being saved by the aliens are neat parts. But yeah, the whole thing is ignorable.
>>722218572Because every writer is going to have their own take on a character when given the chance to write for them. This isn't exclusive to western writers. The guy they had writing Sonic starting with SA2 was the same way (pic related with Maekawa).
>>722218923which is weird because maekawa sonic ended up very close to genesis sonic, just a bit snarkier
>>722218993Maekawa's Sonic was a chatterbox who won't shut up. Unfortunately, this only got worse with time.
>>722218204>an actual goddamn sonic cartoonThe only "actual goddamn sonic" cartoon was SatAM and that was melodramatic dogshit that was ground zero for everyone insisting that Sonic needs to be dark and edgy and talk about the realities of war and relationship drama
>>722217692You can claim that the writing has never been a high point all you want, but you cant deny the unmistakable autism-causing draw that the characters have. They are simple yeah, but there still memorable and unique. Its hard to boil down any main Sonic character to JUST the topes that they employThousands of posts that exist only to go over the nuiances of the character, and how out of character new writers portray said character when compared to said characters earlier showings.If boom somehow got a new run with different writers, you would never see threads like that for it even if the boom cast was written OOC, because boom Sonic isn't written to be a lawless nomad with a heart of gold who hates staying in one place, hes just written to be a generic snarky guy with no real discernible traits beyond ego. If you drew a character from a hat and replaced Sonic in SA2 with said character, it probably wouldn't work. But if you drew from the same hat and replaced Boom Sonic, I would be willing to bet that it works.Every clip of boom that gets praised is a mythology joke, and thats because the boom cast aren't real characters. They are tropes that serve as writer mouth pieces sometimes>>722218638Baka tripfag, i'm impregnating Roll>>722218923Read the rest of the quote. Hes saying he didn't like Sonic at first, but came around as he understood more
>>722211582The dialogue in Generations X Shadow is somehow like nails on a chalkboard compared to the old script.He took a punchline driven cartoon comedy script and turned it into fanon shit.
>>722218736>Anon, the writers were doing exactly what Sega asked them to. Sega is the one who wanted a "furry Seinfeld", and when you're working with barely any budget, that's going to result in a show that's more dialogue-centric than anything else.Funny how sega is constantly low on funding because they wasted all their money on stupid ideas >I'm not even what you're trying to say here. Modern Amy isn't some weird carry-over of Boom Amy, Flynn isn't trying to write anything like that. Boom Amy at least maintained her crush on Sonic. As far as Flynn's concerned, she's over Sonic as of Frontiers.This fanbase is shallower than a puddle of dog piss. For 11 years, I had to listen to them swear up and down that boom amy being "less obsessed" with sonic "fixed" the character, when that's not even true, and see the coke-sniffing childfuckers at sega then make amy "less obsessed" in each game until it finally backfired
>>722213107Im literally on a 1,000 dollar Mac desktop. Its not readable.
Any time Ian needs to write for Amy he should just ring up Evan Stanley and have her do the dialogue. Amy was pretty good in the Sonic Riders IDW arc. Just keep her the fuck away from Silver
>>722218886>sonic shoving tails into the escape pod,Lol because tails is another shitty friend that can't handle himself
So which Sonic game had the best writing?
>>722219249sonic 3
>>722219235Tails jumps in front of some Eggman trap to save Sonic in the same exact game. It's how they introduced the mind control part of Eggman's scheme.
>>722219249Gamma's arc in SA1 is probably the best any of the games can provide.
>>722211582>Tone down the slurry of references>Don't write Shadow like Vegeta>Don't write Amy to be a cuntThere. Fixed. I still prefer his writing to Baldy McNosehair era Sonic.
HOLY CRAP AMY THIS IS JUST LIKE THAT TIME I MET ZEBRAHEAD
>>722218271>You clearly weren't even around back then>But also I agree with the exact scenario you're conveyingStill going with this zoomer projection or are you going to pick a lane already?>Like honestly, what reason there to actually like a character like Big the Cat when his only appearances at the time consisted of the worst portion of SA1 and the "baby mode" for Heroes?>Why would people like Cream when Advance 2 framed her as "Tails but even easier", on top of the fact that she was a little girl in a series where the main demographic of fans at the time was tweenage boys?>Why would people like the Chaotix when they were tied to the worst part of Heroes? And with Charmy's annoying voice that played constantly?>Why would people like Silver when his debut was one of the worst games in the series, with his own gameplay in said game being horribly unpolished?Comic relief, girl character variety, unique reutilization of existing assets (good work reaffirming that classicfags never cared about classic characters by the way), and underdog character with a novel superpower.All key traits that they had since the early-mid 00s, and all aspects of why "everyone" is magically fine with all of them in the present.>The dislike didn't spawn from nothingWith you citing one of the most popular aspects of Cream as a reason why "everyone fucking HATED" her, no, you're definitely supporting the idea that all of that faggotry was indeed based on nothing of merit.
>>722219104
>>722217379Okay Ian
>>722219497This is like that one time I reached for the stars. Even if they looked pretty far I managed to find my own way and took a chance on that day
>>722219389>Tails was brave in Colors>Meanwhile in ForcesI'll never understand what happened
>>722219163>Funny how sega is constantly low on funding because they wasted all their money on stupid ideasWell, the last Sonic project before Boom that they dedicated a sizeable budget to was Unleashed, and that resulted in a game where you spend 70% of a casual playthrough as a slow werewolf. So I agree.>then make amy "less obsessed" in each game until it finally backfiredThere's a difference between "less obsessed" and "no interest at all, with no personality". Current Amy is the latter, and nobody asked for that.
>>722219249Best story, Gamma's story in SA1Best writing, Black KnightMost entertaining story, SA2
>>722219631amy's problem is without the obsession she has no personalityin this respect she is not unlike minnie mouse
>>722219461If Ian Flynn wrote Sonic Adventure, Amy would've fried Gamma with a logic paradox
>>722217398>because all of their unique identities where removed and replaced with tropes that you found easier to understandYes, anon. This is what we in the business call "good writing." Just because you like your characters to be undistinguishable piles of sludge doesn't make the sludge particularly good.
>>722219618Writers forgetting that continuity is more than just "REMEMBER X PLACE?!?"
>>722219708Her final line would've been "This is my sweet passion"
>>722219618The comics basically entirely rewrite forces which is funny to me.
>>722219520everyone" is magically fine with all of them in the present because sonic team got their heads out of their asses and let them all have a spindash or boost
>>722219838>Anything that's not generic enough to be perfectly understood by a focus group is bad writingJewish Hollywood Writer #51515-sama...
>>722219971I do kinda wish Amy had her old acrobatic shit. Just not at the cost of being slower than Diamond and Pearl's health bar
>>722215875>The story for Frontiers is goodlol
>>722219128>you cant deny the unmistakable autism-causing draw that the characters haveI won't deny that, but a big part of that is mainly autists having very narrow horizons when it comes writing standards in the first place.And this insistence that the Boom cast "aren't real characters" is just silly. I don't even think Boom is some masterpiece, it just has quality ensemble writing, which requires a proper grasp on making sure each member of the cast carries a unique voice that can shift circumstantially, which itself a sign of decent character work.The "replaceable" scenario you gave is actually a common problem in the games, since most cutscenes end up being a collection of talking heads giving each other bland exposition, which in most instances means most characters *are* replaceable. Funnily, Flynn tends to have this problem in the comics he writes too, where everyone ends up speaking with the same voice.
>>722219104Satam was not a dark edgy show. It was basically the Ewoks cartoon but with Sonic characters. Where did this meme come from?
>>722219618>I'll never understand what happenedSonic Team happened. They wrote the same "scared Tails" scene in Unleashed, then Pontac and Graff wrote scenes in both Colors and Lost World where Tails saves Sonic from an Eggman trap, then Sonic Team (who wrote the initial script for Forces before it was localized) wrote another "Tails cries for help" scene in Forces. It's just how they view the character.
>>722220284its immediate counterpart was a fairly shitty looney tunes styled show
>>722219678She clearly had a personality. She was similar to sonic but more sentimental, ditzy, excitable and emotionally driven. (Movie sonic, prime sonic, etc.) But you get a faggot who's idea of a strong female character is his mother and that becomes the only kind of female character allowed to exist
>>722219678>amy's problem is without the obsession she has no personalityDon't agree. Her arc in SA1 is about becoming less dependent on Sonic and acting as a "hero" to someone else, and she still carried a personality there beyond "obsessed".
>>722219838Good writing is respecting what came before in a long running series, and exploring how new changes in characterization came to be, if any changes are necessary. Not changing a characters personality without explanation or demonstration and expecting your audience is too stupid to notice
>>722215875Shut up, Ian.
>>722220512That was when they had a good writer and managed to flesh Amy out without changing her completely or making her a caricature.
>>722220195>I won't deny that, but a big part of that is mainly autists having very narrow horizons when it comes writing standards in the first place.True, but autism alone wouldn't be enough to carry Sonic through all of the crisis hes faced. The fact that so many care about his character shows that > it just has quality ensemble writing, which requires a proper grasp on making sure each member of the cast carries a unique voice that can shift circumstantially, which itself a sign of decent character work.it CAN be a sign of good character work, but it say in this instance its more a sign of the writing staff having some chuckle worthy lines in there bag of tricks because - the boom cast have no real character defining moments that go deeper than the tropes they where imbued with at conception. Their different voices boil down to Sonic being the Snarky egotistical one, Knuckles being the dumb one, Tails the Smart one and Amy the straight woman. There is no real "Character" there >The "replaceable" scenario you gave is actually a common problem in the games, since most cut-scene end up being a collection of talking heads giving each other bland expositionTrue in some instances, but wrong in other games that are on the higher end of presentation like SA2. Even discounting games like that you cant replace the characters in the narrative itself so my point still stands >Funnily, Flynn tends to have this problem in the comics he writes too, where everyone ends up speaking with the same voice.K,B,CI dont have it, but he wrote a short blurb on how it was hard for him to write for Sonic because Sonic was a jock, i.e, the type of person who BULLIED Ian when he was at school. I the bullies where stronger and killed Ian on accident
>>722221045Wrong human, Blaze only takes Nega cock
>>722211582No, he's just a less creepy looking and sue happy version of Ken Penders.
>>722214962fuck off back to b and kill yourself
>>722219520>Still going with this zoomer projection or are you going to pick a lane already????It was never a meme to hate on Sonic up until 06 released. Before that point Sega gave people very specific reasons to dislike shit in Sonic.>Comic relief, girl character variety, unique reutilization of existing assets (good work reaffirming that classicfags never cared about classic characters by the way), and underdog character with a novel superpower.All key traits that they had since the early-mid 00s, and all aspects of why "everyone" is magically fine with all of them in the present.lol we're not talking about purely narrative characters you mong. This is a videogame series, if people don't like PLAYING as the given character, then there's not going to be a whole lot of reason to bother liking them. I guess I was right on the money about the characters being liked by younger fans mainly because of their presence in the comics.And why are people more open about alternate playable characters now? Because everyone plays similarly, just like they always should have, just like they did in the classic games before Iizuka decided that approach wasn't good enough anymore for some reason.>With you citing one of the most popular aspects of Cream as a reason why "everyone fucking HATED" her, no, you're definitely supporting the idea that all of that faggotry was indeed based on nothing of merit.People didn't like Cream because back in 2002, playing as a little girl character (who, again, was presented as an even easily character than the designated "easy character") was lame. That's it. It's not that deep. The only reason people even bothered with her is because she could cheese the bosses (with Cheese). And then in Heroes she was lame again except this time with an annoying voice.Of course things are going to be different over twenty fucking years later when culture, interests, and fan demographics change dramatically. Is that really a hard concept for you to grasp?
>>722220512That's like the one game she has a personality in, swathes of SA2 already paint the funeral mask for her character with the Sonic obsession on top of being the only dumbass in the game outside of GUN that mistakes Shadow for Sonic and vice-versa, later on Heroes opens with Amy forming Team Rose to ride Sonic's cock and Battle is at her worst in thinking of literally nothing but Sonic (ironically it's also the first time her tarot cards appear since Sonic CD's manual)
>>722219618>>722220349>it's Sonic Team that dictates Tails is just a big fat BITCH while everyone else tries to give him even an ounce of agencyI can't just say "let outside influences help your work" because people will just go>Ianbut Sonic Team's view of Sonic as a story is downright myopic
Penders>Flynn>Nice baitYeah yeah whateverPenders is shit. And melodramatic. And crazy. But he made up a fuck ton of cool creative stories for Archie. He was entertaining at the least, whether you laughed with him or at him.Flynn is just plain old shit. Shallow writing full of member berries. And it's boring and generic. Like Modern Amy.
>>722220920>but autism alone wouldn't be enough to carry Sonic through all of the crisis hes faced.Actually, it is. Or maybe "unfortunately" would be the better word here.>There is no real "Character" there You've clearly never watched the show, because there are several episodes that take the given "trope" a character fits into and play around with it in some absurd circumstance. Like Amy and Eggman bonding over some weird collectable toy, or Sonic being nearly ostracized by the same people he saves because he casually referred to a civilian as "just a guy", which results in him blowing up on the same people later.>True in some instances, but wrong in other games that are on the higher end of presentation like SA2You mean true in most instances, and not in very few. SA2 might stand out, but it's not the norm.> I the bullies where stronger and killed Ian on accidentI don't care for the guy either, but get a grip.
>>722221169>That's like the one game she has a personality inAnd? I don't need more than one example to demonstrate how she can carry an actually personality when she's not depicted as Sonic-obsessed.Note that I don't actually care for Amy in any of those other games you mentioned. I don't think post-SA1 Amy is a great example of "character with personality" generally for the same reasons given in your post.
>>722211954No copyright law in the universe is going to stop me!
>>722221121>It was never a meme to hate on Sonic up until 06 released>Before that point Sega gave people very specific reasons to dislike shit in SonicYou have spent the entirety of this post chain agreeing with the idea that there was a widespread distaste for virtually everything Heroes had to offer.A game that is as straightforwardly Sonic as it gets, except now it has more characters for you to be "ick'd" by.>lol we're not talking about purely narrative charactersThen keep up.Amy's narrative presence was the entire point of contention that this started from.>if people don't like PLAYING as the given character, then there's not going to be a whole lot of reason to bother liking themAnd for half of that list of yours you already failed to provide a decent reason for why anyone would unanimously dislike playing Team Chaotix or Cream.Instead you opted for limpdick excuses like "I don't wanna play mission mode" or "I'm being too mean to Eggman".>Because everyone plays similarlyAll zero of the characters you're personally upset with have been playable anywhere outside of sports spinoffs for over a decade.>Of course things are going to be different over twenty fucking years later whenThe meme narrative of "3D sonic was never good" fully mutated into "sonic was never good" and everything surrounding that mass psychosis bled any semblance of legitimacy.That's surely what you meant to say instead of that vague, nonsensical deflection.
>>722221632A lot of Penders' ideas just came ripping off other IPs he liked.Which I guess is what most writers do to some extent, but Penders was a bit more blatant about it.
>>722216227Help me, Satan.
>>722222221>anywhere outside of sports spinoffs for over a decadeOh, and maybe that one apple-exclusive mobile game. Excuse me.
>>722222258Just like Ian
>>722211582He wants Honey back so yes
>>722211606I don't get it, can someone xplain to reeetard?
>>722221169Sonic Mania is the only game the franchise was good in
>>722222605Amy's personality is being changed to something more boring because people didn't like her back then.
>>722222258That's what the actual games did
>>722211582No he's shit, the sonic franchise hasn't had good writing since 1993https://youtu.be/aoBID0pZl0w?si=7U3BLYmkc5CJ1r4L
>>722222605Amy's personality was changed from loving Sonic and being boy crazy about him to a generic girl who wants to "share her love with the world and be strong" The comic is making fun of that
>>722222221The teams in sonic heroes forced you to play the same sloppy janky game 4 times to get the true ending because they didn't have the budget to make more stages
>>722222714no I mean the 2deep4u symbolism they are trying to capture, what exactly is happening from older amy telling young amy that and then turns into that?
>>722222890idk but it looks like a rose's thorns forming a breaking heart
>>722211606IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE FEMALE BPD?
>>722222221>A game that is as straightforwardly Sonic as it gets, except now it has more characters for you to be "ick'd" by.The "except" is that most of its concepts are executed in a mediocre-at best fashion. That matters.>Then keep up.How about you acknowledge that there's more circumstances involved in why people disliked the extended cast during a certain period outside it being a "meme". Those circumstances mainly being tied to gameplay and annoying voice acting.>you already failed to provide a decent reason for why anyone would unanimously dislike playing Team Chaotix or CreamChaotix's stages sucked and most people in 2002 didn't want to play as a little girl. This has already been stated but you just don't want to accept for whatever reason. Weird, since you understood the reasoning given for the other characters mentioned.>All zero of the characters you're personally upset withI was obviously talking about the concept of alternate playable characters in general. They disappeared after several years of genre roulette, and when they finally return, they all play mostly like Sonic. That's a big part of why people don't have an issue with it anymore, the gameplay, because this is a videogame series.>The meme narrative of "3D sonic was never good" fully mutated into "sonic was never good" and everything surrounding that mass psychosis bled any semblance of legitimacy.But where did the initial meme narrative start, anon? And why? It didn't just pop up from nowhere. It had to have been from the falling trend in quality that the 3D games were experiencing after SA2, which caused people to retroactively criticize the Adventure games in response for introducing the trends that people had grown tired of by 06/Unleashed. Fans did the same exact shit a decade later when Forces released by blaming Colors for introducing the trends of the 2010s. Time is a flat circle.
>>722222404Yes, Ian would fall under "most writers."
>>722222721True, but I'm not the one calling people "creative" for taking that approach.
>>722211582no he's a faggot and a loser. genuinely take me back to pontaff.
>>722215479why did sega call take backsies on using sticks in mainline media after already including her in olympics games and sonic channel comics? everyone loves her. who cares that she's from boom?idk why sega wants to wash their hands of boom so bad, rise of lyric is abysmally bad but it doesn't deserve to erase the cartoon and 3DS games.
>>722211582He's hired by IDW, that should tell you everything
>>722219618Sonic Team/Japan has viewed Tails as useless outside of the Tornado ever since Sonic X.
>>722223290Sticks was already introduced to the main series in Sonic Runners as a friend of Amy.Flynn came up with some bullshit about her living on Angel Island this whole time and no one knew, including Knuckles.Sega insisted she's already been introduced, just use her with no introduction.Flynn resisted and now Sticks is perma vaulted
>>722223635What a dipshit. As if there weren't enough reasons to hate him.
>>722223319That he did a good job!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1mPmLxfRRUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6KJjkcSnDAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X94keEaYf8whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy4Ni6iqGKs
>>722211582No the guy writes character dialogue like they're walking wiki pages. What kind of cack handed moron brings up characters, locations and irrelevant plot points in games that don't even feature them?
>>722211954baldy mcnosehair!
>>722223706Fucking hell
>>722223806without the time stones?
>>722221650>Actually, it is.Get real. No Franchise can survive on autism alone>Like Amy and Eggman bonding over some weird collectable toy, or Sonic being nearly ostracized by the same people he saves because he casually referred to a civilian as "just a guy", which results in him blowing up on the same people later.My point about being able to replace the boom cast with any character still stands here. "Amy and Eggman both like beanie babies" and "Sonic has an Ego" unremarkable character definers that apply to thousands of others.>You mean true in most instancesName a Sonic game with a good story and in character writing that is "a collection of talking heads giving each other bland exposition". >I don't care for the guy either, but get a grip.Total Ian Annihilation
I love that out of the past 20 years, THIS is the line that finally broke normies and made them realize Ian Flynn is shit
>>722223806those that care about being known as 'true fans'
>>722211954The Eggman PA announcements are legitimately funny.The cutscene dialogue... eh. At best.
>>722211954Colors was great
Holy kinohttps://youtu.be/VdvFWsj6qmE
>>722219172>macwell there lies the issue, dumb applefaggot.
It's funny how each sonicfag is personalizedYou all believe sonic is cool but you each have a different definition of cool and you will die on that hill
>>722223951>No Franchise can survive on autism aloneWe're talking about one. What other franchise can survive two 06-level events (06 itself and Rise of Lyric), and still end up pumping out games regularly? Especially platforming franchises. Most of those died on there own without ever releasing games as bad as Sonic's.>My point about being able to replace the boom cast with any character still stands here. "Amy and Eggman both like beanie babies" and "Sonic has an Ego" unremarkable character definers that apply to thousands of others.Because you clearly haven't watched the show. I'm not asking you to, but it does make all of your criticisms ring hollow.>Name a Sonic game with a good story and in character writing that is "a collection of talking heads giving each other bland exposition". I'm not going to because I don't think are any because my point was that this is something the series typically suffers from, not a good thing.
>>722224268>you each have a different definition of coolThat's most people in general.
>>722224420Most people in general aren't arguing about the coolness of 'baldy mcnosehair'
>>722223013>How about you acknowledge that there's more circumstances involved in why people disliked the extended cast during a certain period outside it being a "meme"As I've already mentioned, I'm sure any idiot from IGN or SA or whatever could dump a hundred-fold list of reasons why they resented any one specific Sonic character at that time.And I'm certain that the majority of that list would have incredibly little validity.>Those circumstances mainly being tied to gameplayThis would be a tolerable enough point if you weren't insistent on latching onto an Advance character.>and annoying voice actingAlso I've been putting this aside for a while, but what exactly is the alternative supposed to be here? This basically comes down to not wanting more cartoon characters in any game that has voice acting.>Chaotix's stages suckedChaotix's stages are almost identical to everyone else's stages except now there are additional quirks to focus on.But if you're establishing that you in fact do not like Heroes at all then whatever I guess.>and most people in 2002 didn't want to play as a little girlThe entire point of characters like Cream is to draw a new demographic into the series.Not only is this irrelevant to gameplay mechanics, it's a strictly ridiculous complaint. Are all concerns about Amy pointless since no boy is ever going to want to play her anyway? What about Rouge then?>It had to have been from the falling trend in quality that the 3D games were experiencing after SA2, which caused people to retroactively criticize the Adventure games in response for introducing the trends that people had grown tired of by 06/UnleashedMeanwhile there were plenty of 2D handheld games releasing just fine, where everyone even played almost exactly the same.Except even that wasn't enough since wide swathes of "sonic fans" were still very angry about Cream, and it turns out they grasped at any excuse to seethe. If your interpretation is to be believed, anyway.
>>722211606this comic is fucking stupid it's crazy how many BPD women (and trannies) on Twitter project onto Amy Rose, creating overly dramatic shit just because she has like 2% more depth as a character outside of "SONICSONICSONIC I HAVE HAMMER AND AM ANGRY"Sonic fans are fucking allergic to change, everything MUST be the way it was back in 2005 otherwise it's heresy
>>722224780Ok Ian
>>722213887>Also his defense of changing the small bits of Generations' visual humor like in OP was just dumb.>I guess the guy forgets sometimes that he's writing for cartoon animal people, it's okay for them to do silly things sometimes.Ian isn't the animator, he writes dialogue. This was a change Sonic Team intentionally made themselves.>>722215120this is bullshit, by the time Shadow Generations released SEGA had already forbade him from talking about Sonic stuff on the podcast
I don't have the time stones for this*leaves*
>>722224780She should be bratty but also understanding. If Cream is crying because the Anon who promised her a date got arrested Amy should console Cream and then go and attack the cops for taking him in
>>722224780This franchise is incapable of change, without fucking something else up in the process.
>>722224675Cream and specifically Team Chaotix in Heroes were redundant. Shitty retreads of what they did already.
>>722214828>Amy is still more lovey-dovey in Japaneseit's her tone of voice, she says the exact same things from the original English script in the Japanese version>>722216694>Just like "everyone hated" Big and Shadow and Omega and Tails and the entire rest of the sonic castPeople hated Big because you were forced to complete the fishing mission to get Super Sonic's story in SA1Kids (sonic's main demographic) loved Shadow so much in SA2 that they revived him in Heroes and Battle, Shadow became a joke because Shadow 2005 the game bastardized the original characterizationNo one hated Tails or Omega. Tails was practically there from day 1 (in the western audience's eyes) and Omega barely had any relevance after Heroes until literally CrossworldsMeanwhile, Amy has been annoying from the fucking start. SA1 was supposed to be her learning to not be annoying, SA2 had her be a useless tag along that got a last minute W by getting Shadow to remember what Maria actually saidHeroes, Battle, Riders, the entire 2000s up until Black Knight made her into a one note obsessive fangirl who can only flip between two states: trying to glomprape Sonic and being grrr im angry its hammer time, absolutely NO ONE liked that outside of female fans trying to find anything romantic to cling to in this platformer franchise
>>722225365>SA1 was supposed to be her learning to not be annoying, SA2 had her be a useless tag along that got a last minute W by getting Shadow to remember what Maria actually said>Heroes, Battle, Riders, the entire 2000s up until Black Knight made her into a one note obsessive fangirl who can only flip between two states: trying to glomprape Sonic and being grrr im angry its hammer time, absolutely NO ONE liked that outside of female fans trying to find anything romantic to cling to in this platformer franchiseSega gets no credit for for just pretending all that shit didn't happen. Actually fucking write her and show her going through the change
>>722224379>What other franchise can survive two 06-level events (06 itself and Rise of Lyric), and still end up pumping out games regularly?Devil May Cry, Fallout, Final Fantasy, Halo, a boatload of modern goyslop triple A titles that released unfinished but still sell boatloads.Its not to rare if you actually think about it, and it makes a lot of sense as to how Sonic survived once you remember that after Unleashed failed critically, the only Sonic games that found release where budget titles aimed at an audience younger than the usual fare, a far cry from the once "system seller" mascot. That was a solid 10 year period that only ended thanks to the financial success of the Movie, I.E something that couldn't have been the work of autism alone. Autism alone isn't enough to keep the lights on unfortunately >Because you clearly haven't watched the showI've seen damn near every episode. You have yet to explain how anything of what I said was false >I'm not going to because I don't think are anySo my original post where I state you only enjoy boom more because you found it "easier to understand" was correct. Boom.>>722224780>Nu-Amy>More depth
>>722225365>No one hated Tails or OmegaNah. As dumb as it sounds there was plenty of shitting on Omega on-site simply because he "replaced" Gamma.And Tails definitely caught a bunch of strays back then when everyone except Sonic and Dr. Robotnik specifically were being declared invalids.>Meanwhile, Amy has been annoying from the fucking startAnd by your admission she had fine moments in both Adventures regardless.Heroes having her immediately command leadership to help Cream and a total stranger was awesome, as was her stopping Silver even after ragdolled Sonic. Currently there doesn't seem to be anything like these scenes in her present state.
>>722222843>share her love with the worldwhy does this line trigger so many Amy "fans"Ian daring to give her more motivation beyond "I want to fuck sonic" is seen as some kind of unforgiveable sinif her character is based around love/caring/whatever, why not naturally extend that to everything
>>722211669
>>722211606this was so gay i like lobotomized flynn amy now
>>722221097THE NEGA-CHIN?
When I was a kid I thought fangirl characters were annoyingNow I think they're super cute
>>722219618People hated that Tails had a backbone and banter with Sonic in Colors, so they decided to overcorrect that by making him a timid Sonic simp.
>>722226682>if her character is based around love/caring/whatever, why not naturally extend that to everythingIt already was extended to things beyond Sonic. Play Adventure 1, Adventure 2, Heroes, ShTH, 06. Pretty much any game that's not Battle or Chronicles
>>722211582Only when Archie let him go balls to the wall or Reboot Archie taking the full-medley path with all spinoff media, AND before socjus prioritization corroded his interests like it did to all western writers. Now he's on a tight leash and only contributes muh crying lesbianbosses whenever he can like he almost did with the reboot.
I liked Amy when she was Sonic's semi-crazy stalker with a big hammer and a heart of gold.
Reminder that you should never listen to "hardcore Sonic fans" ever. Casuals unironically have a much better grasp on these characters.
>>722215479Oh no. You aren't gonna lie about how Ian fuck up Stick's inclusion in IDW. Especially with all the bumblegrift money he made off of it.Looking at the Bumblekasts where Ian Flynn talks about Sticks and how he failed to get her in the main continuity is just sad.Ian's initial pitch, have Sticks living on Angel Island breaking Classic canon. Turn her into Relic 2.0 while making Knuckles look even dumber.https://www.youtube.com/live/RSPwaUS_7IE?si=dD81vCnTzdJfTREn&t=3105Ian being confronted about his earlier claim of getting Sticks into IDW.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N06yxiZk58&t=2028sIan sounding like he just got deep dicked by SoJhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI0Jf3VssnU&t=3094sIan being confronted with how stupid his initial pitch was followed by damage control.https://youtu.be/NAStM_NsRsI?si=Slvo51rK_835_8gi&t=2448Ian being reminded that Sticks was part of the main cast...Totally didn't know she was in Sonic Runners.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI0Jf3VssnU&t=5953sIan admitting defeathttps://youtu.be/iI-9RLmfnUY?si=NU-ZJfqRr7YjXUxN&t=152TLDR; Long long time ago, SoJ told Ian, "No introductions, just have her appear." and he didn't do that. Now he has to live with his failure. He tried a Hail Mary with Sonic Frontiers but that got cut from the Japanese version. SoJ had to put the Amerigaijin in his prace.Someone should do a version of this for the Freedom Fighters. Would be funny.
>>722214671sonic showed signs of liking amy as far back as far back as unleashed. I think sega nuking side characters for a decade is what stunted anymore development and now that characters are back its weird that they just butcher amy in the process.
>>722211669At least Ian's played the games. I'm annoyed by his heavy-handed references that bend the fucking fourth wall, but I'm not going to pretend he even clocks as bad as someone who admitted he didn't know the plot of fucking SA2
>>722230135>SegaNo. It's just Ian. Amy still had her crush when Pontaff and Graff were around.
>>722211582>Is Ian Flynn a good writerno>for Sonic?fuck no
>>722223693god silver is such a shit character. sage needs to rape his timeline pronto to give this fag some agency
Sticks fucking sucks.
>>722230215amy in forces also sucked, but even worse in idw because ian wanted her to be sally
>>722216443Most people don't find themselves worthy enough to change for themselves. There is nothing wrong with having someone else be the catalyst.
>>722230465Shut up Ian!
Ian is such a shot writer, all of his solo projects crashed and burned. Sonicfags may eat his slop, no one else.
woah...thats so deep...i always wondered why they were inside pods...
>>722228947This was literally only in the English version
>>722223693this isn't even canon, Silver's future is safe and he doesn't remember it after 06. IDW writers don't know shit about the franchise they're dumb twitter niggers
>>722211582i'm glad i'm becoming more out of touch with the fandom to not know who some of these names are.
>>722224780The difference between how a character like tails versus a character like amy have been historically handled is straight up the creators getting in their own heads and boxing at shadows, creating the very misogyny they feared.. Tails has had a natural character evolution and evolved from being merely a hanger-on chasing sonics footsteps, while still retaining the positive elements of admiration for him. With the occasional exception of outliers like turbo tails, the character has had 30 years of history folded into his personality giving him a complex and nuanced character that holds up between every adaptation. Amy in her various radical redesigns has, in her own 30+ years of history, more elements of her character discarded to introduce elements that are discarded in turn by the next redesign, as the overarching elements of her design that make her truly "amy rose" eventually melt down to 'girl, pink' because nothing else about her is sacred or worth holding to the next iteration.I could probably write a thesis on this.
>>722229073Battle's a good game, though I agree Amy is at her worst there.
>>722232046He's the new head writer of the games. And one of the writers for the current comic line. His writing is hit or miss
>>722226682I don’t know what sharing her love with the world is even supposed to entail. Is she starting a matchmaking service? Is she starting a large polycule? Is she starting a massive orgy? Is she just being nice to people?
>>722230928Megaman was fairly popular. I heard actual Archie fans liked his Jughead book.
>>722231121>choosing to wait in deployment pods>Tails gave us the cipher for the Wisp language before going off the railsWatching actual competent writers (yes, they are largely competent, suck a dick) attempt to write around the trash fire that was Forces is pure hilarity.
>>722234427do actual archie fans exist in a year starting with 2?
>>722226682She can do both, and she has done both. And following Sonic has sometimes been the only way she was in position to actually have the biggest impact. Making it an either/or situation does her no favors when its typically only the characters that are directly relevant to Sonic that actually get focus
>>722235431Forces really did do unfathomable damage to writing cohesion, niggas keep trying to make everything fit into a neat linear series of events when it's clear that from details like Tails fluctuating between "I'm more than capable of handling myself as a hero" and "AIIIEEEEEE SAVE ME SONIC-SAMA" that Sonic's continuity is like oldschool cartoons, AKA it doesn't exist outside of nods and winks to prior works, and characters can be reshaped to fit whatever mold is necessary for them in that particular moment.
>>722216007He means its a neverending story, its not like Kingdom Hearts where its an overall plot, Sonic game stories are episodic but they(well most of em) take place in the same world
>>722228947>People hated that Tails had a backbone and banter with Sonic in Colors,Because he actually didn't do shit but make a translator that didn't work
>>722235626Which in turn was ultimately an overcorrection caused by Sonic 06 being such an immaculate blunder that it scared SEGA and Sonic Team shitless out of ever wanting to let anyone except Sonic be playable, given that they took all the complaints about 06 and deducted that "oh, the fans hate the game not because it's bad, but because there's too many playable friends... yes yes, the title has SONIC in it, you should be playing as SONIC, always! Fuck that fox nigga."
>>722229552YOU JUST KNOW
>>722230208One fuckup doesn't excuse the other. This franchise constantly does this, swing from one extreme to the other and the fanbase is left arguing which is worse
>>722235727He does not count, he probably asked one of his kids/grandkids what they know about Sonic and one of em was a Shadariafag
>>722230639Who? Sonic? Because the only people who think Sonic would be interested in a naggy killjoy are the faggots like Flynn that Sonic would bully
>>722230208Ian does not play the games, remember when he didn't know how FUCKING Chaos Control worked?
>>722232390That's how sega operates. They fuck up repeatedly until people complain loud enough, then they remove the bits that were remotely complicated instead of doing them competently
>>722211606What the hell was that?
>>722220682>good writing is uh... umm... well it's, uh, what I personally like, because I SAID so, OK!? jeez!Not your most compelling argument. Good writing exists independently of each and every thing you just said, and you could never articulate why or how Boom's cast is inferior to previous incarnations in a thousand years. You let your false ardor blind you yet you scarcely know this series to assert so boldly.
>>722223992>Just a reminder: Please refrain from pushing buttons on the starship. Occasionally, one might jettison you into space. If this happens, your next of kin will be billed for the replacement hatch.Those announcements are still the funniest thing in the series and one of the most Eggman things ever. The dialogue is like Adventure Time Regular Show wannabe hip chatter but a little sadder and desperate yeah.
"Amy m'dear, I respect you as a friend and compatriot, butm'st we must crack on with our venture, and procure those chaos emeralds!"Sonic said calmly.
>>722215118I think there were probably some specific notes from Sega that Ian had to stick to for frontiers. It just doesn't make sense to me why he'd write sonic and eggman the way they are in frontiers when he didn't really do that in either of the comic runs. Considering we know for a fact that Roger Craig Smith tried to do his regular sonic voice in frontiers and they kept telling him to deepen it and make it more muted, I think Sega specifically wanted that sort of portrayal.
You've all convinced me, Sonic games shouldn't have dialogue.
>>722236019does anyone know how chaos control works?
>>722235553Old school cartoons didn't constantly attempt to make serious narratives, and then also make constant nostalgic references in those narratives which don't make sense or have no thematic weight without context. Shadow and Chaos have no significance if there's no humans. Green Hill has no significance if the specific island it came from doesn't exist
>>722219142You can't write the serious story they had in mind for Shadow in the writing style of the original Sonic Generations.
>>722235716There's a point to be made that cramming in 20 characters, instead of just focusing on getting one character's gameplay right, was a misstep for the series.
>>722211606This is so dumb.>NOOO YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOURSELF FOR THE BETTER YOU SHOULD BE A USELESS PIECE OF SHIT
>>722236598Space-Time Manipulation, so that means it can Warp Space(Teleportation) and Manipulate time(Time Stop and Time Travel)
>playing SA2>dad walks in>Amy's theme begins playing>mfw
>>722236296Boom is relying on prior experience with the sonic franchise to justify itself. It exists to directly mock a separate universe that had been botched to shit by sega. No one would care about this show if sonic didn't already exist
>>722236393Because normies who've seen this franchise crash and burn are gonna empathize with the human who wants to finally kill the little blue bastard
>>722236447No, that's sexist. Sonic is the retard that Amy has to keep on track
>>722236665Using them for half-baked awkward experiments was the misstep
>>722236774Sega can't be trusted to tie their shoes and wipe their own asses. They wouldn't know what progress looks like
>>722216052>you have to eat the slop because the previous had flaws
>>722236802it's a good track
>>722211606Meanwhile in the other Sega game:https://youtu.be/5pQKwGIVAnM?si=AUyUs9LrHXfdrlIi
>>722236847every sonic game that came after the first one rely on the prior experience with the sonic franchise to justify itself, find a better argument, or better yet, find a real one
>>722221632>>722222404>there are genuine ken penders defenders on /v/ right nowoh god what is happening
>>722211606out of context I don't know if this is talking about the new amy, the old amy, or the first amy. And the replies makes me feel everyone interprets it however they want
People have such a weird persecution complex about Sonic Boom. It was just supposed to be a funny cartoon, like the old Sonic cartoon (that you don't remember because you were born in 2005)What do you expect a Western animation studio working under Nickelodeon to do with Sonic, when handed the keys?
>>722237734Man she's high.
>>722224780>Sonic fans are fucking allergic to change, everything MUST be the way it was back in 2005 otherwise it's heresyYou sure convinced me, anon. I will surely downgrade from my gold-studded Aventador to a shitty dilapidated Corolla. Change is unquestionably good, after all. Faggot.
>>722219095>Maekawa's Sonic was a chatterbox who won't shut up. What did you think of 06's portrayal of Sonic?
>>722211582No but Sonic Fans don't care. The Sonic Fans that spend their money on Sonic will gladly accept shit writing. Look at how many idiots like the theatrical Sonic Movies and Flynn is not working on those. To summarize...If a character is yellow like Spongebob and THe Minions or blue like Sonic or Disney's Stitch you can always count on RETARDS automatically blindly buying them up.
>>722211606>They all like me better nowNo they don't, current Amy is fucking garbage. Only good for porn and nothing else.
>>722226682Sounds like NTR, wouldn't expect anything else from a male feminist AKA sex pest like Ian Flynn.
>>722211606>bullying selfcestkino
>>722216443>you underaged bratFucking kek, why did that make me laugh
>>722219618> Eggman "tortured" Sonic for 6 months btw
>>722242327You didn't read the comics very well, apparently. Sonic was defending Mr. Tinker.
>>722242620Nope. He still defends Eggman from Surge even when Tinker was long gone.
>>722223725>tries to get with a girl that looks like his momWhat did sonic maurice hedgehog mean by this
>>722211606>>722217379The language "change" implies they replaced her character traits and behaviors with new ones.They didn't. They just removed them, and haven't really given her anything to do, or any stories where she could convey any new traits or behaviors. If they for example, changed Any to a character similar to how she is depicted in the Sonic Boom TV series, I think many people would consider it a good move.But they didn't. She's just the shell of a familiar thing. An empty husk that's supposed to evoke nostalgia.And considering how little time the modern games and fiction spend on secondary characters, I don't see this changing any time soon.
Thoughts on this character of dubious canonity?
>>722222222what was the GET
>>722243086newbro...
>>722229813I respect the fact check
>>722242327He's pretty evil in the games too. There's just no false dilemma that Sonic is enabling Eggman's continued existence in any way. Eggman just resilient and crafty and is literally known for building escape pods into everything. Sonic has many times had every reason to assume their battles (particularly late game ones) could result in Eggman perishing, and he's never given a fuck if say, a final boss blows up without Eggman apparently escaping to safety.
>>722243086There's no repeating digits on /v/ aside from zeroes, newGOD.
>>722211582Better than the HTF ones, still shit though
It's funny how much impact "current" Amy has had with fans when she's essentially only been in one game. She's still sitting on Sonic in her brief appearances in Lost Worlds and Forces. OP's image is literally just an edit of a game that already happened. So neutered "I'm in love with the WORLD" weaponized tarrot card Amy only really did existed in Frontiers so far.
>>722243586>Eggman just resilient and craftyYES this, Eggman is just as stubborn as Sonic
>>722223926What gets me with that isn't the forced as fuck reference but that it doesn't even apply in the context properly. You didn't use the Time Stones to time travel in CD, you used the fucking past/future signposts+running fast. Don't think it was ever officially stated how the Time Stones actually worked but in the game they guaranteed a good future WITHOUT requiring you to time travel even once, so I interpret it as some wish granting thing to bend outcomes through time to the wielder's will. Basically Ian's a hack fraud and I'm pissed I fell for the hype from comic retards, differently won't read any of them now.
>>722211582His Colors rewrite was really dopey but to his credit>Sonic Dream Team>Shadow Generations>Sonic Crossworldswere all him and I haven't seen anyone gripe. In fact the rival dialogue probably helped Crossworlds get around on social media.
>>722242327>>722243586>Those comicsYou mean IDW. Archie Eggman was arguably the evilest Eggman has ever been, much worse than in IDW or any game, but he was basically omnipotent, as much as an undefeatable force for evil as Sonic was for good. Resilient and crafty, indeed. So they rarely had him in a position of weakness, he always had a backup plan and managed to slip by.Archie Sonic hated his fucking guts (picrel), and after his only big defeat and psychotic breakdown, they at least put him in jail for a long time, and iirc, after the Genesis wave shit failed, Sonic told Eggman he was going straight back to jail. More than IDW even implies Eggman deserves. So say what you will about this being too edgy a take on the doctor, but it was way less retarded than how IDW treated it, where Sonic just lets him get away because of the Mr Tinker shit.
>>722213028The Pontac era stuff can mostly be ignored cause at least they didn't try to fuck with canon.Every bit of stench from any of the comic writers is enough to make me rethink buying anything new from this franchise. The in-house writers from the 2000's were never perfect, but they never needed to be, and it sucks that they think they need "help" from any of these freaks.
>>722245249I hate the time stone shit too, but drink a glass of water or something.
>>722245451Water's great. I drink a lot, and it clearly hasn't changed my opinion. Sorry you don't like it :)
I hate how /v/ is pretty much the only board on this entire website that can coherently talk about anything involving the Sonic comics or lore simply because /sthg/fags have thoroughly infested /co/ and /vr/ and /trash/.
>>722224268Everyone agrees the COOLEST Sonic is Metal Sonic
Genuinely the only Sonic anything I've ever enjoyed was the Sonic Boom TV show. Everything else has just left me wondering how the hell this IP is so big.
>>722245885This OVA and Sonic Battle for the GBA are the coolest things in the Sonic franchise.
>>722245885
>>722246021Based
>>722245885Correct. Metal does not require a beating heart, therefore, provided he has not recently used jets, his body ought to be refreshingly cool to the touch. Unless his power core is constantly providing too much heat for that, in which case he may instead try competing for the HOTTEST sonic character.
>>722235841Nobody is "excusing" anything. That post was in direct response to a direct comparison between Ian and Pontac where anon mistakenly called one "marginally better." No. Ian is dramatically better. Full stop. Someone familiar with his fucking job vs. someone who wasn't.
>>722246269>the most shonen Sonic story ever>every character is given a point, a place in the world and a powerset>that fucking spriteworkIt's not a perfect game by any means but to this day to me this game still contains the coolest depiction of the Sonic universe and characters in a game.
>>722229813I love this filthy semite so much. Her stalking Amy is a little creepy though.
>>722229813>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAStM_NsRsI>Cream and Sticks were rejected because they were new to the comicWhat the hell is he talking about? Wasn't Cream introduced pretty early on? Also I don't know who his Co-host is, but he is fucking annoying.
>>722246480It is easily the most fleshed out narrative in a Sonic game. SA1/SA2 aren't bad but they are more like overviews that expect the player to fill in the blanks and Jake assumptions for the sake of the plot.
>>722246480Can we live in a World without weapons?
>>722246408Ian is trying to hard to add dramatic weight to Sonic, that has no business being there. He thinks he's writing Undertale or something.>everything is about le PTSD and character growthBro, it's Sonic. He grabs the gems and goes on the loop.
>>722246826I agree. But I don't need to temper my previous statements with that. It was just an objective comparison between two people. If someone wants to inject their own value assessment about Ian ON TOP of what I said, that's their doing, not mine.
>>722229813Listening to this guy, it feels like he just genuinely doesn't understand the IP, or at the very leasy isn't the kind of person who would like it and is actively trying to turn it into something else.
>>722211582Ian Flynn have two problem 1: he have good concept but his execution is always shit like that's the one reason I never fully read Idw cause I know the ending for each arcs will be Anti climatic as hell.2: He's never subtle about anything It's always in your face like the way he writes Sage and Eggman is so cringe "Oh Sage My dearest daughter You are my daughter. Yes father and you my father and my family" Like it felt so forced.
>>722246480Sonic Battle takes place in Central City, which is the capital of the United Federation and is actually the same city as SA2 (City Escape etc).
>>722246826Penders never left, he just changed form.
>>722224780The women and troons like the new Amy more than the old one. Kill yourself revisionist.
>>722211606Reminder that Amy is competing with fucking Wave for the least played female character in the new racing game>well theres alot of characters including blaze so-In the network test, with a limited amount of characters, CREAM was played more than her.
>>722229813You don't hate Ian enough.
Speaking of Sonic Battle, Ian took Shadow in dome interesting directions in Archie. >>722246810Recontextualizing Shadow around nuclear disarmanent and focusing on the fact that Project Shadow was inspired by the Manhattan Project was a fucking genius direction for his character. I really wish they followed up on this and made him more like Mega Man who was created from the same anxiety about nuclear weapons (Wily is based on Albert Einstein). I hate all this Maria melodrama and I hate Iizuka's shitty bargain bin Vegeta.
>>722247526I've seen some females dislike Nu-Amy, I think its only the HARDcore Ianfags who defend it
>>722211582The writing in Sonic was never good to begin with.You people unironically need to read a fucking book.
>>722229813>only saving grace with ian is that he atleast tried to get sticks in>he actually fucked that up and literally ANYONE else wouldve gotten her inI hate this faggot.
>>722247731>Metal and Omega are holding Metal Sonic at the end of Heroes>never followed up onAt least Rivals 2 gave us some Metal/ Shadow duo kino.
>>722229813Really it was never Flynn that was the good part, it was Pellerito tard-wrangling him with Yardley's art. Flynn has never understood the appeal of the brand and never will, so he needs to be kept in line by people who do.
>>722247731It's really funny to me how so many people hate this version of Shadow with a passion. It went on a radically different direction than the og, way too emotional, but I still prefer him to current day bargain bin Vegeta. I think what ticks the fanboys off the most is, there's panels where he got smacked by other characters and that means the writers hated him and were evil because they didn't let him instantly eviscerate everyone, all Shadow could ever want was prove he's the strongest lmao literally Vegeta brain.
Woke series
>>722248646Is this cause of eggman being a feminist in the manual lol
>>722248845No it’s cause Eggman is evil and destroys the environment, the Echidnas were colonist, and Chao are non-binary.
>>722247731>I really wish they followed up on this and made him more like Mega Man who was created from the same anxiety about nuclear weapons (Wily is based on Albert Einstein)Pretty common theme in japanese media, same reason Tetsujin 28, the first proper mecha, was shaped like a bomb, and Gundam features warfare so heavily. Megaman inherited it from Atom/Astroboy. Still, I think Shadow only accidentally got some of this because he had to be strong and keep up with Sonic , science vs nature and all that. His characterization (in SA2 anyways) really reminds me of traditional anime antiheroes like Char, Mask X or Keith Anyan. People out for vengeance because of their dark past. Vegeta is more of a jock bully that acquired an inferiority complex and for people who don't sympathise, it can feel downright annoying.>>722248845No, I think that's the Sonic Heroes manual lol
>>722211582Based solely on the game scripts he's never going to write something as memorable as Sonic vs Shadow or the finale to Black Knight. On the other hand we likely won't get anything as infamous as Baldy Nosehair or the torture and war shit from Forces.
>>722225023lmao
>>722211582There was literally no need to re-write Generations.
>>722249368Shadow accidentally got it because SA2 is inspired by Evangelion which is also based on those anxieties and similar plot beats and themes.Canon's Core is literally just Terminal Dogma, complete with tang.
>>722250209I watched Evangelion recently(Like maybe around 2 months ago) and I didn't see that until now
>>722250295Yeah I only picked up on it very recently as well. It's so obvious, especially when you look at the aesthetics of NERV and the ARK. Like the underside of the ARK are skyscrapers is exactly like the geofront of Tokyo 3.Another thing I noticed is ths Biolizard shares a lot of similarities to Evangelion units themselves; he was an attempt to create a perfect being and able to Chaos Control on his own, which is very similar to the concept of the S2 engine.
>>722250209Actually SA2's story with Shadow is based on Sonic Team's earlier game Burning Rangers.
>>722251239Who’s the one for you to count on?Won’t turn from danger from now on
But surely there's something GOOD about Ian, right?
>>722251848Yeah, he wrote Lanolin as a complete fucking bitch which is really hot ngl
>>722251905She need to give me paizuri
>>722251905This bitchy sheep owes me sex
How would you have responded to her if you were in the Diamond Cutters and at this meeting?
>>722252416>>722252670Fine, let her get nude real quickThere we go. She's all yours
>>722211606>Amy has her back exposed 100% of the time Erotic.
>>722251848Surge
>>722251848He's a walking database, which means he can pull obscure characters and bits of lore out of nowhere and wield them together to make satisfying worldbuilding. And in fact this was originally the job he was hired for, Pellerito wanted an intern who could sort through all the bullcrap that the Archie writers came up with and make sense of it. And for the first few years of Ian's tenure as a writer, that's what his writing amounted to. He fails when he either has to come up with worldbuilding on his own (post-reboot) or is working for someone who does not give a fuck and just wants to stick to the most recent version of the brand without anything brought back from the past (current Sega) because he's just not a good writer and defaults to "imma do my own dumb shit."
>>722236802>dad begins to sing along with the game
>>722223954Normies picked up on it pretty quick though.Ian Flynn wasn't writing the games until Frontiers, and thats the 2nd game he's written.Normies dont read comic books
>>722211582>Is Ian Flynn a good writer for Sonic?The short answer is no, not really.However, this is a misleading thing most of the time, because most of the people that have Flynn living rent free in their heads secretly just desire his position so they can, in thwir mind, force in whatever OC headcanon they want into the stories. A large percentage of the time it's Sonamy autists.
>>722211582Is Amy more boring now? Sure, she lost some of her hotheadedness and spunky attitude. Is it some kind of Sweet Baby Inc. psyop that the Jews are perpetrating in order to brainwash the masses? No, that's retarded. Realistically, a number of the writers probably realized that making Sonic constantly act disgusted with Amy's undermined her presence in his friend group and tried to tone things down accordingly. Even in this picture, you can see she made cupcakes for Sonic that are in his and her colors, so it's not even like her crush on him is gone.
Remember when Ian got some ungodly reason tried to say that the rails in Frontiers aren't real and Sonic is imagining them and that Big isn't real eitherWhat's his issue man
>>722220682>Good writing is respecting what came beforeThat's... wow that's extremely incorrect.Good writing is good writing. What you're talking about is canon consistency and being "faithful", and if that's your issue, then it should be Sega you're mad at.I agree Flynn sucks tho.
Smells like /sthg/ in here
>>722253457/threadFlyyn is a hack, but Sonamytards are a cancer
>>722253457>A large percentage of the time it's Sonamy autists.Ironic because Flynn himself is a Sonamy autist who's said multiple times he'd make them official if Sega would let him.
>>722211954Colors was okay. It had dumb, childish jokes, for sure, but within the context of being a "Sonic and Tails do a generic adventure to stop Eggman" story, it does its job reasonably. It's after that when the stories started getting bad either from being underwritten (Generations) or written badly (everything else).
>>722213149>who he puts up with cause she's hotBut Sonic was explicitly not attracted to her. If anything, he just kinda treated her like someone he looked after if she was in trouble but would otherwise avoid.
>>722211582So far, he's better than whatever the fuck was going on in the 2010s but I don't think he's done anything standout.I don't hate him like other people but I've long since checked out of the plot of these games. I don't think the series has what its takes to tell an original story like they did way back in SA2, Unleashed, Secret Rings, Black Knight, ect.Frontiers had cool moments but the actual plot was extremely undercooked, Shadow Generations was animated well but a very short story and both were over-reliant on references.I am tired of "celebrating" Sonic's past. I want to see the series move forward from Nostalgia, but I don't think they can.
>>722252725
>>722253990>But Sonic was explicitly not attracted to herThats not true, Sonic is just shy
>>722253845That's the point. Flynn sucks, but people think him not ascribing to their shipping fantasies or forcing Knuckles to fuck off to his island and not be around 99% of the time (this is something sonamy autists literally want) is intentional, but in reality it's just sega not giving a fuck and having strict mandates about what sonic characters are allowed to do.
>>722254069might as well be headcanon
>>722254110this
>>722213149>puts up with her cause she's hotlol no that's OOC.She just follows him everywhere. Pretty much the same as Tails except Tails can actually kind of keep up.
>>722215804>Such a dumbass reason. Eggman and Sonic will never end their feud. Tails will always be the sidekick that looks up to Sonic. Knuckles will always be sitting around defending a big rock.To be fairSonic Adventure 1 and 2 for example was literally about Tails not doing that anymore, SEGA ignored it hard to the point where Tails spent games where he acted like he couldn't even fight, Sonic wasn't ALWAYS episodic, past events did matter at some point
Reminder Dream Team is the first and only time the series has ever refrained from referencing old shitIronic since it's the only game majority of the fanbase can't play
>>722254535*First and only time since the 2000sIs what I meant to say
>>722216046>He's a self-addmited sonamyfagIf people like you stopped being mondbroken about a dead character she wouldn't be brought up 99% of the time in any sonic discussion.
>>722254474there was character development through Ow the Edge (2005), then it pretty much all stopped.They also severely lobotomized characters in heroes anyway before that.The reality though is Sega has not wanted this to be a narrative-heavy series for 2 decades now.
>>722254802For how much as people rave on about how they love games like SA and muh canon and shit I really don't get why people act like SEGA's writing is any better
>>722254285>except Tails can actually kind of keep up.That's only because Sonic allows him to. I miss the days of constant "Long time no see." when it was implied Sonic just fucked off after each adventure and the others don't see him much until the new adventure brings them together.
>>722254936I think they just appreciate it's unpretentious and sincere like most kids media.
https://youtu.be/5AW7xQ_Dxjk
>>722211606The more mature Amy is only four years older than the other one.
>>722255121 Heh Sega removed the ages from the characters which means SEX WITH CREAM THE BUNNY
>>722254535Not true. Sonic used his old "Let's do it, to it" catchphrase. Unless that's becoming a mainstay in every game, that counts as a reference.
>>722255323FUCK I FUCKED UP THE SPOILER
So where did Ian Flynn create "bad Amy" in the comics? I just reread The Chase the other day and I loved her in that, she was a hotheaded ditzy screwball with a big hammer that still swooned when Sonic "princess carried" her. Is this bad Amy yet?
>>722254069Amy is for being peeped on by sticks
>>722223635>Sega insisted she's already been introduced, just use her with no introduction.They're retards for thinking anyone is dumb enough to fly with this illogical retcon
>>722225365>it's her tone of voice, she says the exact same things from the original English script in the Japanese versionthats literally not true as early as frontiers
>>722255443>first panel has sallyYou're way, way off.
>>722255323>>722255365
>>722223635>>722229813>Flynn came up with some bullshit about her living on Angel Island this whole time and no one knew, including Knuckles.>Sega insisted she's already been introduced, just use her with no introduction.>Flynn resisted and now Sticks is perma vaultedHonestly? This is a fine example of SoJ being retarded, Yeah Flynn could have bent the knee so you stickfags could get your character, but their logic about this is braindead
>>722254110as long as franchise is around making money, nothing in it will ever changenothing ever happens billions must collect rings
>>722255595Just like all the time she spent standing around not being an evil robot, Sally is irrelevant.
>>722211606pvre kvno plvin vnd svmple
>>722255723>sega is retardedWe know.>ian is more retarded for literally being GIFTED the ticket into sticks, a character he himself loves to write, being canonThis is indefensible.
>>722255964Just having sticks show up for me is just as bad as Blaze just being stuck with Silver for no real reason and ignoring her actual dimension, I can see why someone wouldn't want to do this
>>722211582>actually knows the series (pontac and graff literally didnt play the other games) so already better than them (low bar)>with a tard wrangler producer he can actually write very good like with shadow gens>this is proven by how shadow is written in the comics (no tard wrangler producer, only kneeling co-writers at best), hes written so shit that ian tries to blame sega, who in turn blames him, into an endless loop>the sacrifices are: amy in her entirety, "DREAM OF AN ABSOLUTION SONIC" tier lines occasionally, forced dyke OCs (comics only so far)He's unironically the best we'll get. Good enough.
>>722256214>I can see why someone wouldn't want to do thisIan wanted Sticks into canon in the first place, SEGA was cool with it. Both parties were fine with it, Ian is the one who fucked it up.
>>722256367SEGA was cool with it as long as you do something stupid like pretending a character that clearly wasn't there was always thereBoth parties fucked it up by being stubborn over retarded shit
>>722256256I'll be fine if Surge shows up, I'll be fine if Tangle shows up without whisper in games
>>722237642Mania doesn't. S1, 2, and 3K don't. Because they're sincere and actually good
>>722256485>like pretending a character that clearly wasn't there was always thereSonic 06 did this with Blaze in Silver's future (silver doesnt even get reasons to show up now btw), and they've been cool with it up until this day. Most Sonic stories does the opposite where extremely useful characters don't actually show up for the world ending threats. Why is this a problem now? There were a million other ways to justify her existence, LATER even, without having to instead do exactly what you said "pretending a character that clearly wasn't there was always there" by having her on Angel Island this entire time.
I refused to buy the new Sonic Generations remake specifically because Flynn censored jokes about calling Classic Sonic chubby because it's "fatphobic".
>>722240081It was cartoon network. And it could've just been a funny cartoon if this faggot fanbase let it be that. Instead it became the gold standard for how these characters should act because sega shit the bed so hard and so often that any old junk looked better
>>722255763You'll have to look at more recent stuff, if Sally still exists in whatever you're posting.
>>722257058>Sonic 06 did this with Blaze in Silver's futursee>Just having sticks show up for me is just as bad as Blaze just being stuck with Silver for no real reason and ignoring her actual dimensionMind you, I don't agree with having her on Angel Island either he's still retarded for that.Trip is how you do a decent character introduction.
>>722211606>ChubbyThat would have been the best aspect of her, if it had happened.
>>722256256>Actually knows the seriesHe got into an argument on Twitter about how Sonic using chaos control to escape the pod in SA2 didn't make sense because "chaos control can only do time travel"
Sonic is a boys series and it doesn't need females in the damn games. They've never been popular and never worked in Sonic.Men want to play as boys, woman want to ship boys.Trying to force female characters to be "equal" to male characters in Sonic is like trying to make Ken as important as Barbie.
>>722234368its like she is trying to say shes a poet or artist or something and I just think thats the dumbest shit imaginable.
>>722257334Ah so that's what you meant, yeah fair.
>>7222570053 starts with super sonic having the emeralds from the previous game I mean its not ESSENTIAL to know why that is but its kinda assumed
>>722256214>Not having Sticks at all is better than her showing up randomlyNo it fucking isn't.
>>722258147I stand by what I said nigger, fix both Flynn and SoJ's retardation if you want good things
>>722211582Sonic died after mania. It should of been the final hurrah for sonic. Going out with an epic game.Instead it contained on with the shit that was forces, woke trash movies with knuckles being voiced by a black and being violent and retarded, more trash followed by more trash.Sega could of just worked with the mania team and given them credit but instead we have more garbage
>>722257694That was a legitimate argument though, """Chaos Energy""" and what someone/shadow can do with one has been historically poorly defined. Being willing to argue on it (and later admit he was wrong in his own way) after seeing the shit it does in 06, the "negative chaos emerald energy", and the entirety of Shadow's powers (not being able to use chaos control without one, then proceeding to teleport in forces) is fine. That's MUCH, MUCH more effort than Pontac/Graff.
Ian Flynn has flaws but he is a better writer than any (game) sonic writer before him. Anyone who thinks otherwise is doing heavy revisionism of how badly written the previous games were.Yes, even SA1 & SA2. Which have higher highs than anything ian flynn wrote, but also much lower lows. Ian Flynn is more consistent.You don't have shit like the werehog punching through a heavy metal vault door in one cutscene while jobbing to glass and wooden doors in others (or gameplay). Or knuckles falling for a retarded trap in SA1. Or tails acting OOC just to make eggman look smart in SA2.
>>722251905Ngl, I hated leader bitch Lanolin and her fanbase defending her so hard during the Duo arc. Still, she has a hot design.
>>722258747I think Lanolin being a bitch is fine and her character is fine. It's fine to have stupid bitches in fiction. Not every female character should be logical like Rouge/Blaze or lovely like Amy.Sometimes an unlikable HR bitch is just that. Lanolin fits that glove perfectly.
>>722257694>Sonic using chaos control to escape the pod in SA2 didn't make senseto be fair chaos control makes sense contained in SA2, but if you're familiar with canon from every game its kind of retarded, especially with shadow in consideration
>>722258884Chaos powers have always been inconsistent which I assume is actually the point.
>>722258684You fucking wishThe writing in SA1/2/Secret Rings/Unleashed/Black Knight even shit like Heroes blows him out the water
>>722258684>Tails acting ooc Please explain and I hope it's not the "so how did you know it wasn't the real one?" Because I'll embarrass the fuck out of you
>>722259027Based. add Battle and Sonic Advance 3 too they had sweet stories aswell
>>722258884In Shadow 05, one of the first things you do in the game is collect a Chaos Emerald off a Question Mark block, for Shadow using it through the game to make sense.
>>722259027No, unleashed is awfully written. SA2 is debatable if you ignore some retarded things it does (Tails suddenly becoming an idiot, Amy Rose confusing shadow for sonic, GUN confusing shadow for sonic even though they should have had some documentation on shadow's existence [yes, even black projects for defense agencies back up their data somewhere])
>>722258684>better than the post SA2 writingAgreed.>better than stuff before SA2Hell no. Ian EASILY surpasses the lowest of lows SA2 does. Whenever he fucks up, he blames SEGA.
>>722258850Her problem wasn't that she's a bitch, per se, but she was a dumb bitch. Like, imagine if Knuckles was a stuck up asshole that didn't trust his long time friends over a stranger, only to be made a fool of by said stranger anyway. I could forgive a smart bitch that generally does know better than her peers, but Lanolin was a rookie that assumed leader position and got a big head over it.
>>722259150>collect a Chaos Emerald off a Question Mark block, for Shadow using it through the game to make sense.what about when he teleported without one in forces
>>722259124If this was written by Ian Cream would stand up on her own and say "big girls don't CRY! I can be as strong as Amy without the Time stones too! Love is my sweet passion!"
>>722259162On the people confusing Shadow for Sonic thing, I have this Shadow shirt and my Mom asked me "Is this Sonic?"
Even normies have woken up
>>722258684>Or knuckles falling for a retarded trap in SA1. Or tails acting OOC just to make eggman look smart in SA2.your post was good until you mentioned sonic adventure, these were both extremely in character retard
>>722215303He said Sonic, not Silver. Moving on.
>>722255595>>722257334What the fuck does Sally has to do with anything here? Triggered Sonamyfag.
>>722259162>Sonic fans are honest to God so retarded they see a man with a 300 IQ tricking an 8 year old who has no reason to believe he's bluffing as "Out of character" but will defend the fuck out of Amy's bastardization I hate nuSonic fans
>>722259482Random people unfamiliar with the series, yes. But sonic has some level of infamy after SA1, no?Amy rose of all people would know what her #1 crush looks like. She didn't confuse him for sonic in a dark alley or something, but broad fucking daylight.I can see random grunts confusing sonic/shadow, but there's no way the upper military brass should know otherwise. They should have just written it as "we suspect sonic's involvement and want to question him". Unless that's how the japanese script portrayed it, because I don't remember that being the case in the english script.
>>722259638He's probably just an Ianfag
ITT: /sthg/babs circlejerking hard on their hugbox because /sthg/ bullied them out.
>>722259638Eggman and Tails are on the same intellectual level. Tails should naturally be suspicious of eggman considering he saw him try to nuke a fucking city.There's naivety and just stupidity. Tails is stupid in SA2 and its the start of his ipad babification that destroys his character in unleashed and colors later on.
>>722259621>mention sally because if shes in it, its an old archie comic meaning amy didnt get butchered yet>immediately put any and all defenses upIt must be rough, man.
>>722259162>Tails suddenly becoming an idiotcan you define the difference between tails and eggman's intelligence despite both being super geniuses
>>722259851Eggman and Tails are [headcanon]. Tails should naturally be suspicious of eggman considering [old game that the story doesn't care to bring up outside of one line]There's naivety and just [not following my headcanon]. Tails is [not how I would write him in my fanfics] in SA2 and its the start of his [different writing style] that destroys his character in [games I do not like therefore will call everything they do bad] later on.
>>722259509Why are you taking some electiontourist unironic retard that got himself suspended for spouting le ironic 4chan maymays on Xitter as face value representation for normies, retard?
>>722211606Its not a bad comic. Amy's character did go through a change, but the fans have always hated her. But more in-universe, a lot of her activities are about her getting stronger, losing weight, trying to get Sonic to like her.Its melodramatic, but it gives her depth thats in character.
>>722260215t. 2024 election tourist
>>722259937Eggman has experience and super intelligence.Tails has super intelligence and a lack of experience. He doesn't have the years of experience working in industry or working with people. He is a little naive, yes, but his lack of experience should not make him so easily tricked by someone he KNOW he shouldn't trust. He's seen eggman try to kill millions of people. He's seen him.>>722260065You are such a dumb and contrarian nigger. I'm not even going to bother to justify you with a real response. Hopefully you die in WW3 soon.
>>722211606What is this even supposed to be referring to?"Original Amy" had no character whatsoever, she was just a silent damsel in distress.Then in the Dreamcast era, she actually got some character again, but feminazis decided that a girl being attracted to a guy is "le sexist" and thus every remaining bit of that characterization got removed, but nothing really replaced it. So now she's just a bland flat character with nothing but nostalgia bait going for her.
>>722219618>"I'm wildly inconsistent!"What the hell was Ian thinking with this line, feels like a parody, it's way too meta. Many rag on Forces Tails vs SA1/2 Tails but you don't need to go further than that, fucking Lost World had Tails with full on bravado and not giving a shit the Zeti captured him.
Sonamy is literally antithesis to SegaSonic. Sonamytards do not actually care about Sonic.
>>722244635It was most likely the passive influence of the Time Stones that enabled the use of time travel in the first place. It would be pretty unceremonious if all it took to time travel was a mere signpost.
>>722260329
>>722260538>Original Amy" had no character whatsoever, T. Kid who grew up with Forces and LARPs as a classic fag
>>722232694>he did not play Free Riders
>>722260640Lost World Tails would honestly be pretty good if it wasn't for the random as fuck Harry/Ron divide that came out of nowhere
>>722257912Faggot
>>722260538What a retard.
>>722235520>She can do both, and she has done both.and she's still doing both, the only change is that Sonic is actively trying to avoid her and she isn't forcing herself on him>>722258031>>722234368>I don’t know what sharing her love with the world is even supposed to entail.dont be fucking stupid, she means she plans on helping as many people as possible, like in the SA1/SA2 scenes people worship of her giving Gamma and Shadow pep talks to redeem them>>722232390>misogynyjesus christ she's a pink cartoon hedgehog>more elements of her character discarded to introduce elements that are discarded in turn by the next redesign, as the overarching elements of her design that make her truly "amy rose" eventually melt down to 'girl, pink' because nothing else about her is sacred or worth holding to the next iteration.the only thing that's changed is, again, she isn't solely focused on chasing Sonic down and forcing him to marry her
>>722258383lol mania was only greenlit to be an ad for forces. That's why it has the Phantom ruby and it almost had infinte.
Amy always came across as a generic Minnie Mouse. She was only entertaining when they let her be more unhinged
>>722215479I don't think Sticks being removed from said picture indicate anything towards Sega's opinion on Sticks. The picture featured characters from IDW comics and Murder game, which Sticks is not part of. It was a marketing decision to not market Sticks without having anything current with her.Ian tried to rewrite Sticks, which Sega stopped. Sticks just doesn't have specific past and its not up to Ian to make it, it just has to be ignored and written around. It is the same as explaining why Sonic is fast, you just don't have to know it and its not up to someone to make something up on a whim.
>>722240306>I will surely downgrade from my gold-studded Aventador to a shitty dilapidated Corolla.You've got that backwards, the weird retroactive worship of 2000s Amy is like sticking to that shitty dilapidated Corolla because its smell, sputtering, noise and constant breakdowns reminds you of your childhood, and the thought of switching to a newer model scares you because it looks different and doesn't have that same rancid smell or squeal you remember
>>722226682It's not triggering, it's just such a weird line that it stands out to people. It's like a Japanese idol fan snuck in a weird familiar platitude right in the middle ofIan's script
>>722261085Sonic is about Sonic not your cringe ass TOP 10 MOST BODACIOUS SONIC GIRLSAmy will never work as a main character, she's side character material.Sticks was the weakest part of Sonic Boom and I'm glad we're not suffering a "quirky" forced main character because you have a fetish for tribal girls.Sonic is a boys focused series, and that is OK. Its wrong to try and make every IP an forced diversity Burger King Kids Club with equal male and female representation.Some series are OK to be all male or all female. Sex In The City does not need a bunch of men added for force 'balance'.
>>722211606these fuckers are always like "noo don't change just b urself"okay what if my true self is a fundamentally shitty person
>>722226682How does this translate to an actual motivation? It's so vague I couldn't even tell what she was trying to say until I heard that podcast that revealed this was Ian trying to end the cat and mouse game between Sonic and Amy.It makes it sound like Amy is retiring from adventuring to travel the world and share her art or something, it makes no sense as motivation for a character who is going to be a reoccurring part of Sonic's cast. It sounds like she's being writtem off.It doesn't even really line up with how Amy is characterized in the IDW comics, cause she's still proactive and interested in heroics in that, she's not entering a hippy phase.
>>722260935And he was actually playable
>>722262041I'd respect you for being a piece of shit upfront than to fake a smile and pretend you're my friend only to backstab me when I trust you
>>722261670The thought of switching to a newer model scares me because its a shitty tesla with drm
If Ian wants to sink the Amy Sonic ship so bad can he PLEASE sink the Blaze Silver one while he's at it?
>>722211606This comic implies being weak, desperate, loud, annoying, clingy, childish, and chubby are good things.
>>722211582He's fine. Also he didn't reanimate the game, that was SEGA
>>722261958Suck a dick, faggot. I want her playable. The hammer is a brilliant idea for sonic gameplay and she's one of the few characters who should actually be able to fucking roll
>>722263369They are if you have no intention of replacing them with anything.
>>722236296NTA but I agree with his general sentiment. I don't give a shit about continuity or whatever, the series never has in general. However, I do think prior characterizations portrayed the characters in a much better to digest way because the identity of sonic has always leaned more towards style. It informed the aesthetics and adventure, and boom, while being well written in a vacuum, just doesn't do this. It's good television but they have a completely detached appeal that can be chalked up to 'TV sitcom'. It's entertaining but it lacks identity, especially because if there was one thing Sonic did well, was at least try to justify it's coolness. Boom has very little in action and etc and it just leaves a loop of:>Why are we holding this back by using Sonic charactersand>Why are Sonic characters in thisPersonally I feel very similarly to the pontaff games as well, it really just feels like if you want writing like this Sonic just doesn't feel appropriate. Sometimes low brow should stay low brow, Boom can be clever but I'll never appreciate it over sa2 or black knight or etc. It's like an aesthetic similar to how people describe moe or shonen that felt exclusive to Sonic that he just doesn't have anymore.
>>722263369They are if you stop changing yourself every time someone calls you something
>>722263239I don't get how people say that Flynn is trying to sink the ship when the comics are full of stuff like this.
>>722263658Shut the fuck up Sonamytard.
>>722263658because muh narrative
>>722263369Women are always those things, to pretend otherwise is just sexism or trying to paint women as men, which only hurts women.
>>722247731best shadow
>>722263430Don't worry, SEGA will keep trying to force Amy no matter how unsuccessful they are each and every time.Thankfully as forced diversity she'll always be a annoying shallow tacked on addition that will rarely impact the main game because SEGA knows there will be a riot if they prioritize her over Tails, Knuckles or Shadow.
>>722262952Fucking retard is more obsessed with the crush than Amy’s actual fans. If he hates the chase so much, he could've just written Amy’s arc to be about her being frustrated about getting stuck on the sidelines for 13 goddamn years and how she's gonna get strong enough to rush into danger directly
>>722264053We already know she's more essential than knuckles or shadow are.
>>722264293LOL, you really aren't beating the "All amy fans are delusional" reputation
>>722211606Did he write that?Seems overly melodramatic for Sonic the Hedgehog
>>722264293>more essential than knucklesYes.>or shadowIn theory, yes, but in practice at any moment after Shadow's creation, no. Just because Shadow didn't appear for stupid reasons for two decades doesn't mean his status was in any danger.
>>722264745Ian Flynn would never look back at his old work and criticize himself
>>722236393Absolutely criminal that you can't make any of it out when playing the game.>RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!
>>722263658He said it in a podcast. He essentially gave Sega an ultimatum that they should either be an actual couple or just "best friends". It didn't work, so he ended "their game of cat and mouse". Which is why we keep seeing weird shit like Sonic calling Amy his best friend.
>>722263510One of the reasons why Boom has horrible ratings (despite all the memes) is the fact that it was terrible as a kids' show. Imagine being a kid, tuning into a show about Sonic the Hedgehog (a character naturally associated with fast-paced adventure and action) and then the show you're watching is paced like a sitcom. The closest inspiration Boom's writing has that's also animated is probably Phineas & Ferb, but Phineas & Ferb doesn't just have self-referential humour and millennial fourth wall jokes, it's also got action (satirical spy movie action is still action), upbeat musical numbers, and endless visual gags. It isn't ashamed of the fact that it's a cartoon. Fuck; even the DKC cartoon in 3D, which was also quite "sitcom-like" due to the limitations of how it was animated, was at least trying to feel like a kids' show. You have musical numbers there too, you've got funny shit like Klump and Krusha going through the wringer. Boom has... bored-sounding characters who seem to just want all this shit to be over.
>>722265853>He essentially gave Sega an ultimatum that they should either be an actual couple or just "best friends".Why did he demand that? It's not like the "Will they/Won't they" of Sonic and Amy was ever taken remotely seriously. Amy pining for Sonic was just a funny quirk she had.
>>722265971I think he himself is a shipper and thought he could force Sega to make a decision. They did, just not the one he wanted. And he's so stubborn he's digging his heels in to save face.
>>722223706FUCKIN KINOOOOO
>>722265853He really wants to write mobius 25 years later, doesn't he?
>>722236393>>722223992AoStH is funnier and has a better depiction of Eggman, and I say that as a die-hard Japanese canon Sonic weeb.
>>722262952>t revealed this was Ian trying to end the cat and mouse game between Sonic and Amy.no, the actual podcast clip was him talking about a scrapped idea>It makes it sound like Amy is retiring from adventuring to travel the world"It makes it sound like Amy is retiring form adventuring to go adventuring"fucking idiot>Amy is characterized in the IDW comics, cause she's still proactive and interested in heroics in thatshe's proactive in Frontiers too, she's the only reason Sonic even interacts with the Kocos at first, then there's Final Horizon, literally nothing about her dialogue suggests she's quitting and leaving foreversonic fans cannot reading comprehension holy shit >>722265853>Which is why we keep seeing weird shit like Sonic calling Amy his best friend.he's never called Amy his girlfriend, the entire "joke" of Sonic and Amy for the last 20 years was that SHE called herself his girlfriend, and he wanted nothing to do with her
>>722224569No one is either? Everyone agrees that line is shit you fucking schizo
>>722266281This is a comparison I never thought I would end up making, but this reminds me of how Frasier actually had Daphne and Niles get together. In the immediate sense, it's incredibly satisfying (that is if you're a weirdo like me who actually roots for Niles), but then they have to work around... that... being the new status quo and it turns out it doesn't lend itself nearly as well to comedy.>>722266424It is truly bizarre to think that SatAM ended almost 30 years ago and the franchise is still in its shadow, not due to any organically enduring popularity in the fandom (it fell out of fashion as THE golden standard for Sonic writing among online Sonic autists years ago) but because every fat neckbeard midwit who ends up writing for Sonic EU stuff on the Sega of America side of things still has a secret kinky shine to Sally (or SatAM Robotnik idfk) somewhere in their house. Which is even weirder when you consider SatAM wasn't ever even intended to be a Sonic show in the first place and was loosely adapted into that at the last minute for more marketing value.
>>722211606fpbp/thread
>>722265861Boom had GOOD ratings for a cartoon that ended in 2017.It wouldn't have gotten multiple seasons and 104 episodes if it had failed to resonate with the intended audience like the cheap Sonic Boom games did.So lets say you're a kid in 2014, that means we're talking about the age 6 - 12 demographic since five under are too young.That means, going by the most generous 12 year old perspective, they have roughly 6 years of new material to reference. Kids only care about new material, they weren't alive to experience or care about things that predate them.So they kids had- Sonic 4 Episode 1 & 2- Sonic Colors- Sonic Generations- Sonic Lost Worlds- Sonic Free Riders- Sonic All Star Racing Transformed- Mario & Sonic at the Olympics- Mario & Sonic at the London Olympics- Mario & Sonic at Sochi Winter Olympics- Sonic Dash for phonesAs reference material.If your theory that kids didn't like Sonic Boom because it wasn't like the games they probably should've turned Sonic Boom into a show about the Olympics or car racing. Less than half of those games are about adventure, and half of those adventure games were considered bad.
>>722263723>no argument>shifting goalpostsI accept your concession, retard-san.
>>722266569Sharing her love with the world sounds like adventuring to you? It literally sounds like she's going to join an idol group or something to me.>he's never called Amy his girlfriend, the entire "joke" of Sonic and Amy for the last 20 years was that SHE called herself his girlfriendSonic wasn't consernedbwkth their relationship status at all his end.It's not even one sided anymore, they act like Amy likes being In the friend zone now. And there's a weird effort to make it seem retroactive, like with the small Generations changes.Honestly what bothers me more is implications that Tails isn't his best friend.Without the will-they-wont-they angle it's kind of unclear what makes Sonic and Amy close friends at all.
>>722265853>Which is why we keep seeing weird shit like Sonic calling Amy his best friend.? Sonic always considered Amy a friend
>>722266569>>It makes it sound like Amy is retiring from adventuring to travel the world>"It makes it sound like Amy is retiring form adventuring to go adventuring">fucking idiotGoing on a college girl sabbatical is clearly not kind of adventuring he's talking about.
Ian Flynn is shit
>>722267186>Honestly what bothers me more is implications that Tails isn't his best friend.This bothers me also.
>>722267186>Sharing her love with the world sounds like adventuring to you? It literally sounds like she's going to join an idol group or something to me.Idol Groups literally go on tour anon...Tails and Sonic have this brothers thing going on, he's basically family now
>>722267373Why did you drop the adjective?
>>722267186This looks like AI art. Overly shaded, bland stylish poses like they're figurines, Knuckles doesn't even have his mouth open while speaking.The sad thing is this probably isn't AI, its just bad.
>>722267616That just feels like shifting job titles around so Amy can still seem special.
>>722267878I don't really see the issue, I don't think one even needs to be a idol to spread positivity
>>722264734We'll see what happens when the movies end and the budgets get slashed again
>>722268083There's barely even other characters to spread love to at all, regardless of how she does it.
>>722267826Yes, the colors seem machine picked. The way its faking 3D is not human. The paneling is too even to feel real. It somehow knows how the characters continue beyond the crop.
>>722268184It'll just be the same thing she did in the past where she brings the better out of people like Shadow and Gamma
>>722267186I really don't like Sonic saying "bestie". That's something I expect an airheaded valley girl to say, not Sonic.
>>722261670>X is flawed>therefore Y, despite being worse, is better because... LE CHANGE IS GOODSubstantiate your claims, retard. Name the top 5 best Amy moments without using anything from the 2000s. Go ahead.
The problem with Sonic and Amy is steeped in the problems of Japanese writing and general male female relations.Its unnatural for a young male to put a pretty girl who is into them into a "friend zone" without good reason, because men like to fuck. Unlike women, who are expected to keep more distant and why "the friend zone" is fundamentally a female thing.Amy is too young for Sonic. That's why he's not into her in Sonic Adventure.I'm not saying Sonic would date her, or be ~in love~ with her if she was the same age as him in that game, but he would fuck her, and that would make the game uncomfortable because the main protagonist is a douche who had a one night stand and is running away from a girl he broke the heart of.Sonic will still flirt with underage Amy because Japan had different values regarding how creepy that is back when the Sonic games were released. As long as it was all chaste it was fine for Amy to want to be boyfriends with someone almost twice her age, and it was fine for Sonic to sometimes encourage it.Now that Amy is the same age as Sonic, and Sonic can't become a wifeguy because that would ruin his personality, the relationship between them is instinctively weird and artificial.
>>722268083I wasn't talking about her being an idol, I meant changing Tails to Sonic's brother so Amy can have the best friend title.It's weird. Specially because even when Amy was clingy, Sonic X was pretty much the only time Amy was even closer to Sonic than fuckin' Knuckles of all people. And they haven't really fixed the issue of her being an orbiter who is occasionally a damsel in distress.
>>722267030>That means, going by the most generous 12 year old perspective, they have roughly 6 years of new material to reference. Kids only care about new material, they weren't alive to experience or care about things that predate them.They have the internet. The genesis sonic games are as relevant to them as any other sonic content. You think they don't know where the sprites in .exe shit came from?
>>72226865820 year old model
>>722268719Come again?
>>722268658Tails being family to Sonic at this point makes sense to me and fits well, I think it's not that big of a deal to have Sonic be close to the cast members he knew for the longest time
>>722268784that model is from the ShTh pre rendered cutscenes, which came out on 2005
>>722268298No future game will follow up on this
>>722268713You aren't wrong. Hell the 2D games are more accessible than most of the popular 3D ones today, unless you pick stuff like Dash and the Roblox collab.
>>722232694desu it works for battles story, people just hate yandere tier women for some reason
