What is even the point of this class? it sucks so much. Literally the weakest class.
>>722305987He's fun.
YOU suck
>>722305987Shove a medic up his ass and he rapes retards.
you ain't gettin in this hallway nigga
Random spread is far, far worse than random crits, but NOBODY is ready for that conversation.
>>722306203At least random spread serves an actual purpose.It does feel like shit on the pistol and revolver though.
>>722305987There is none. They should just replace Heavy with an assault rifle class with frag grenades for blast jumping. A bunch of retards are gonna say ARs would ruin TF2 but Tomislav spin up is practically instant and it hasn't ruined the game yet.
>>722306089
Put dispenser here
Mobile sentry.Good for pyros, jumping soldiers, scouts, demoknights
>>722306203Both are okayniggerkys
>>722305987>What if the pyro, but good?Trans people don't get it.
>>722305987heavy is a good wreaking ball when he is inside a fairly standard building, the real problem with him started coming when fuck huge maps with fuck huge spaces started to become the norm
>>722305987>Literally the weakest class.That's a funny looking Pyro
>>722306203random crits is fun regardless to whatever comp fun hating faggot thinks
>>722306527crit spam is not fun
>>722305987he dosen't suck but he's boring, great supressing fire and being a moble sentry i guess?
>>722305987I regularly top frag with heavy You just need to quit sucking
>>722306527Random crits is fun up until I die to random crits 3 times in a row right after I spawn
I use the brass beast primarily. It's a lot of fun being a mobile sentry making sure nobody comes around my corner. The extra 20% damage obliterates literally anything. Pyros are the most fun to kill, but it's funny seeing scouts evaporate or enemy heavies thinking they can stand toe-to-toe with me. And when I need to move, I just use my shotgun until I can find a good spot to defend again.I wish more people wouldn't write it off as a troll weapon.>but splash damageYou shouldn't be in that position for it to be a factor.
>>722305987Short of overwhelming him with numbers and forcing him to retreat or die, there is literally nothing you can do to kill a Heavy utilizing proper positioning, awareness, and tracking. If you die, it's because you fucked up on one of those or overextended.
hate heavy players so goddamn much>duuude wtf why does the slow mobility locked instantly win when you're in range class have DOWNSIDES??? they should give him rocket jumping that would be based :)remembering when TF2C gave him a hitscan consistent easy to aim burst damage weapon that minicrit you if you were airborne and people INSISTED It was fine because>duuude it has a hard range limitation (in tf2 famously the majority of characters can do high damage at long range >duuuude he kills himself if you're at point blank so you can... force a trade maybe
>>722306203>"No, you cannot have the shotgun fire like a shotgun. It must come out as an exact 3x3 pellet grid time every time you click the mouse">"No, a lucky dice roll to occasionally get a nuke and get three guys in one shot should not be allowed"Do you niggas hear yourselves? Don't you remember what happened to Overwatch when it became "competitive"? Can't you see the playerbase competitive Melee attracts? I am 100% ok with competitive play and having a special ruleset for it. But advocating to "disable items" on every server is not the way TF2 has lasted for 18y. Weak players get so flustered from dying to a random crit it makes their junk tingle, without realizing the neural activation they're getting when they themselves land a random crit rocket into five people. It's hidden drip fed dopamine that Valve put in and has you by the balls, and as soon as everything starts becoming hyper competitive everywhere the game will feel less fun and you'll have no idea why.
>>722307398yup the game became completely different when random damage spread got removed
He has to be individually powerful because he lacks in the most important departments of a shooter: Speed, range, and mobility options.Heavy is 100% at the mercy of the map, 75% at the mercy of the enemy players fight-picking, and 50% at the mercy of his retarded team.
>>722307398>Don't you remember what happened to Overwatch when it became "competitive"?Arguably TF2 already got hit worse by a "competetitive" patch with meet your match. I genuinely believe it is the sole reason for why it isn't even more popular now, valve fucked up so bad. Zoomers love custom gamemodes and shit as evidenced by roblox and fortnite custom games.
eat sandvichpoot
>>722307398>Weak players get so flustered from dying to a random critNo I don't.
>>722307732shoving community servers into a hidden menu was unfathomably retarded
>Mmmmmmmrrrrrrrpppghhh!
>>722306967
>>722307837*turns you into swiss cheese in 0.34 seconds*
>>722305987Heavy is fun if you have a good Medic who is willing to pocket you.
>>722308202>proper positioning
>>722306395try not using 70fov
>>722306203the real conversation is that random crits were added because the tf2 devs are dogshit at the game.
>maps are shitty chokepoints>ah shit we need to stop stalemates somehow... I've got it! randomly force fights to end regardless of player skill!it's POOP (unless you're new enough to the point where you literally can't get kills without it and then it gives you the dopamine you need to keep playing which w/e for a casual game/server)
>>722308358>proper positioningHave fun "positioning" on Harvest (or really any KOTH)
>>722308849just respect the sightline bro
>>722306203random spread + tf2's ass hitreg makes gunspy so infuriating.
>>722308849>>722308991I love KOTH but I HATE Harvest with a passion
>>722308991
>>722305987stop thinking of tf2 as a deathmatch sandbox
>>722309492>stop thinking of [shooter] as a deathmatch where the goal is to frag outliterally an impossible ask of any shooter player
>>722309429Joke's on youThat's the second Sniper
bros relax you are getting tf2 classic, and then you can bitch when nobody plays it. All of the weapons and buffs are firmly ingrained and nobody wants to go back. https://store.steampowered.com/app/3545060/Team_Fortress_2_Classic
>>722309693>objective is to frag outfalse
https://x.com/DidTF2GetUpdate/status/1973971673474084934>[Undocumented] TF2 received a change in the App Config.What does it meeeeeeean?
>>722309693>>722309790nvm I understand you were speaking externally
>>722309773i only play tf2c when i play tf2 because the unstable performance, terrible visual clarity/artstyle death and schizophrenic weapon bloat makes me just not want to play live anymore
>>722309851I stopped playing much after they added that new Heavy weapon
>>722310510the aa cannon has been increasingly nerfed to the point where it doesn't feel like a big deal on its own but there is still very little I find more annoying than a heavy rush with aa cannons. sorry you don't get to counter us by playing demoman we can beat you at peeking
>>722305987GET BEHIND ME DOKTOR
>>722305987DO I SMELL SOILED BABY DIAPER?
how do i git gud with huntsmen
>>722311378aim in general direction of head, get candy
>>722311504wish he had more health, i'm trying to peek corners at close range but he dies too fast
>>722311673>close rangeThe Huntsman does not have damage falloff over distance, my friend.
>>722311378move like spy shoot like demo
>>722311712huntsmen is a projectile so it's hard to shoot at from medium to long distance range, plus it gets demolished when there's countersnipersBUT it has a high chance of getting a headshot because the hit detection is wankyso peeking from a chokepoint, aiming where people's head would be and spamming and hoping some retard walks into it would give way better results
>>722305987>Literally the weakest class.That would be spyHeavy is actually insane once you realize you can turn around and equip fists of steel to cuck snipers
>>722312693>spy is uselesshate this meme, just the existence of a spy is enough to distract the enemy team and help yours get easy kills, picking off classes like medic, demo and heavy is really valuable, and he's the only class that can shut down a nest of multiple sentries because even uber gets rocketblasted. situational, but good under the right circumstances
I animated fempyro butt.
>>722312962It's not a meme.Spy only has invisibility. Everything else about him is shitty gimmick thus don't work against good players. You know what's better than being a shitty distraction? Being an actual threat and killing people.
>>722312962>just the existence of a spy is enough to distract the enemy team and help yours get easy killsa sticky jumper demo or gunboats soldier does the same thing exponentially better and can actually get kills against good players unlike spy.>and he's the only class that can shut down a nest of multiple sentries because even uber gets rocketblastedIn no world is spy going to be able to sap multiple spread out sentries without eating shit immediately. If they're all stacked in one spot a demo can just corner peak it, doesn't even need uber. If they're spread out DH/LNL is far better than spy.
>>722313136you aren't supposed to rack up kills with spy, you're supposed to kill the important classes at the right times and make the enemy paranoid, making them unable to focus in the frontline, then switch classesthat's why spy is used in comp 6v6
>>722313317>you're supposed to kill the important classes at the right timesthe skilled players curbstomping your team aren't going to make it easy for you to backstab them.>making them unable to focus in the frontlineanybody good at the game is just going to ignore you if you cloak since you can't do shit outside of melee range.>that's why spy is used in comp 6v6there are only two reasons to play spy in 6s>the enemy team is turtling super hard in a spot that is hard to bomb/snipe>you are bored and want to go for a funny play/backcap against a bad teameven the first one is rare these days with how good the average 6s soldier has gotten at bombing and most teams don't turtle because it's boring as hell.
>>722305987He's the class you play when you're tired and want to chill but still want to get kills.
>>722313042Sex with this Fempyro
What sort of mental illness is involved in being a "friendly" in an FPS?
>>722313583i don't get what you're complaining about. your enemy team is focused on an intense firefight, so they don't notice you approaching a medic with 80 percent uber. after he gets backstabbed. you proceed to sap a few building a few times to make them know you're here, and then switch classes back to soldier or whateversounds pretty good?
>>722314058The amount of unpredictable chaos in any given match means that the team doesn't depend on you and you're not pressured to do the objective, CTF or Hightower especially.
>>722313269It's amazing how effective a jumper demo can be when you can land pipes.Imagine a 175hp scout that can teleport to any spot on the map and two shot almost every class from any range due to no falloff.
>>722306395Do you have a point or is this thread for dumping bad gifs?
I am new to the game, and it felt absolutely euphoric to mow down a line of enemies in a chokepoint during a game of Payload.I can see why people like TF2.
Gee I don't know.What is the fat wall of health and damageIn the Defense section of class selectionSupposed to do?
>>722314564Push the kart
GET ON POINTSTOOPID!!!
>>722314564Attack enemy snipers from a distance
Enough doompostingHow would YOU fix Sniper? You can't remove him from the game. If you think he's fine as is, then feel free to ignore.
>>722314925Remove him from the game.
>>722314925Are you stupid? Remove him from the game.
>>722314925remove from game
>>722314925remove him from the gameseverely nerf quickscopingnerf his close range toysremove/rework DDS, maybe nerf razorback so that it's not as effective when the sniper is in a sentry nest
>>722314925reduce his base movespeed to 93%increase his movespeed to 107% when smg is equippedquickscopes now deal -125 (max charge dmg unchanged)receiving damage while scoped reduces chargeadd damage fall-off starting at 1024hu and ending at 2048hu (no dmg ramp-up)give medic specifically +50%crit dmg vulnerability...or just revert all the unlocks that countered him.
>>722314925Every person he headshot kills gets kicked from the game
>>722314925buff everyone so no one is overpowered
>>722305987He just need fourth slot, but people bitch as if it's end of the world
>>722314925Rifle does 40 instead of 50 like the revolver, a chargeless headshot doing 120. That way he can't immediately kill 5 out of 9 classes and has to hardscope as intended to get kills.
>>722315440To counter this all classes can equip an item that auto-kicks any player that deals an 100%+ max damage in one hit to them.
Tomislav is a straight upgrade and turns the heavy from a class i respect into fat retard tier. The niggers responsible for that stupid crock of shit are unbelievable and it makes the heyday of Dr Enforcicle look like bliss in comparison
>>722315914>let's give the class an unlock that nullifies its biggest weaknesses with a negligible downsideevery fucking time
>>722314925>Make crit damage also scale with charge time>2x while uncharged and the usual 3x on full charge>Rework his stupid shields>Rework BushwackaDone
>>722314925Sniper doesn't need fixing; you're just bad.And even if he did, 18 years into the game is too late to make a change pal.
>>722305987He's great, stop getting fragged by demo and walking into shit when you cant stand the heat. Literally the easiest class to top score on maybe aside from Medic assists
>>722314103>so they don't notice you approaching a medic with 80 percent uberthe only time a medic should be distracted enough to be backstabbed is when they are being bombed or a scout is running at them and realistically that's not something you can coordinate in a pub while you go for a backstab without a friend helping you. in all other situations medic is one of the hardest targets to backstab because he can look backwards while his pocket looks forwards and he can stand very far away from his heal target in cover or with his back to a wall where you can't do anything to him. also since he doesn't have to aim 100% of his focus is put into dodging and being situationally aware. at that point you may as well just go gunboats soldier and have your friend pocket you so you can divebomb their med over and over without sacrificing combat effectiveness.>you proceed to sap a few building a few times to make them know you're hereagain this all hinges on if the engie is just bad or his team is clueless.spy is fine in pubs where the average player is a moron but look at engie's kit. spy's revolver vs engie's shotgun engie should win every single time if they aren't retarded. then you add on you're alone behind enemy lines, 'SPY SAPPIN MY SENTRY' and the loud buzzing sound is effectively announcing your location to the entire enemy team. you play sticky jumper demo you get from your spawn to behind their lines in seconds, can blow up their nests, can 2 pipe anything that isn't a heavy, and even if they chase you the only class that can keep up with you is another sticky jumper demo so it is much harder to kill you.
why was ge so hated in overwatch 1?
>>722318381>the only time a medic should be distracted enough to be backstabbed is when they are being bombed or a scout is running at them and realistically that's not something you can coordinate in a pub while you go for a backstab without a friend helping you.>spy is fine in pubs where the average player is a moron???
>>722318671>press E to become effectively invincible for 2 seconds and damage anyone who shoots at you with a hitbox as big as a fucking truck
>>722307398You have fun losing to a shitter because they got a random gigadamage bonus?
What spurs people to complain about balance in games like these? Are they incapable of playing for playing's sake? Do they want things to be optimal for their convenience, adhere to some universal Queen's Rules standards?
>>722318909What's the issue? I'm not saying spy can't be useful in a pub but objectively there is very little he can do that another class can't do better. His class matchups are dogshit. Spy and sniper's role is to pick critical targets but the most dangerous players are typically the most situationally aware and spy's effectiveness falls off a cliff against them while sniper's doesn't. Even the ONE thing he's supposed to be good at, killing snipers, is nullified by the existence of the razorback which the majority of snipers equip full time. Spy is a noob stomper at best and free ubersaws at worst.
>>722319271Have you ever considered playing the same shit over and over gets boring after a while and getting stomped into the dirt playing a garbage loadout for the sake of variety isn't enjoyable either?
>>722319449So it does, but you know as well as I do that the former has nothing to do with balance in the way those people approach it, and the latter is a complex game design failure.Stock is stock, it's the foundation.Saying something like>What is even the point of this class?or>remove Sniper, why does this game need a long-range class>remove sentry>remove Spyand other such "ideas" is just repugnant.
>>722319449there are other games than tf2 anon
>>722320078All the arena shooters I like have died.
>>722319705I'm not saying remove anything. For the most part TF2's weaker classes and unlocks need buffs not nerfs.
>>722305987He's fine, I just hate how you're forced to announce you're ready to shoot unless you have the Tomislav equipped, the minigun made for constant re-deploying. Everyone knows if you're revved around a corner.
>>722320325I didn't say you did, I agree with buffs too.I just find those threads silly. Back when I've played TF2 years ago I've never visited any tf2 threads, and now that I do, I'm rather surprised that there are people that unironically want to gut up the game.
>>722319008>kill a shitter 10 times>he gets lucky once and crits you>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *shits his pants* THIS IS AN OUTRAGE I WILL NOW PROCEED TO MAKE 100 VIDEOS 1000 REDDIT THREADS AND CRY ABOUT IT FOR DECADES!!!!!!
>>722320498The revenge mechanic is something special alright. I can get dominated and killed 10 more times and just landing a single revenge kill makes me feel like I'm king of the world.
>>722315914I play heavy and the dps loss is noticeable and in my opinion not worth it. In comp settings heavies use tomislav often because they know that the enemy team has at most 1 other tomislav heavy. If you play pubs you could face a brass beast or stock heavy or even multiple, tomislav is just too weak
>random crits op and need to be removedAnother case of optimizing the fun out of games
>>722305987Honestly the biggest crime in all of TF2 history was how they remove Degreaser, Flare and Axtinguisher (full crit on burning targets) combo from the game and replaced it with Phlog pyro. The man that was responsible for these choices deserves a fucking beating. Imagine taking a skill ceiling, crushing it and then adding a weapon that requires virtually 0 skill. Pyro mains were so cool with that old setup, I remember because I was a teenager playing the shit out of the game and it was genuinely inspiring to see a pyro light you up airblast you, then flare you, then airblast you again and axtinguish you for a finisher. That was sexy and it made people learn THAT loadout. Phlog pyro is the total opposite and it sucks that you sometimes have to use it to break through a chokehold. The game used to be so much more skill based.
>>722305987>run out of spawn>get backstabbed>respawn>run out of spawn>get backstabbed
>>722322318Don't forget, tomislav kills every other minigun 1v1 if neither heavy is revved, and if someone IS revved the tomi heavy will know and the others won't, because no other minigun is silent.
>>722314925Remove razorbackRemove spy uncloaking sound
>>722315914>Tomislav is a straight upgradeIt's not, it's a playstyle and map difference. Stock excels for shredding overextending players and punching through a strong defense while tomislav is more versatile and lets heavy take more fights. I've been in many situations where I wish I had tomislav's range but just as many where I get overwhelmed because of tomislav's lower DPS. The whole heavy 1v1 argument is stupid when you shouldn't be caught unrevved anyway. Even if one is better than the other the difference is minor at best and you should run whichever one you like more.
>>722314925Make him deal max 50 damage to heavy per shot
>>722314925I don't want to address his many broken unlocks so I'll be balancing around stock as the intended loadout. Every sniper shot should have the classic tracer, half his reserve ammo, sniper should have demo's movespeed adding more downtime to everything he does, he should have a longer scope in delay but shooting no longer makes you unscope encouraging hardscoping, lastly SMG with an extra point or two of damage.
>>722322713just look at him
>>722314925People forget that it is *Team* Fortress 2. Your *Team* lacks a counter sniper but you want to "main" a class and not push sightlines with your team, so it's the game's fault?
If you can't dominate pubs as heavy you are trash sorry.
>>722305987sometimes you just wanna shoot big gun
Learn to jump and spin your minimum retard
>>722319008Yes. It's a game. A GAME. The idea is that it's fun for people to play, not to provide a competitive sport arena for people to bolster their fragile egos. Competition is there to serve fun. I have no problem with some gibus shitter I've dominated having a small random dice role chance of getting me back. It's better than the alternative which is 5k spies and incel snipelords and that one demo with his pocket kritz boyfriend holding a monopoly on being able to kill people instantly.
>>722305987>Literally the weakest class.That's spyBut yeah heavy is one of the least played classes and has very little skill expression
>>722305987One of the most baffling things about tf2fags is how they can look at a heavy topscore a pub racking up multiple dominations with his medic. Acknowledged by many to be one of the easiest class to do this with. And then get people try and insist he's the weakest class.And they've been doing this for YEARS, do we even play the same game?>but that's pubs!And if we look at competitive we have a class who literally only gets benched because of his slow rollout. To the point that when an unlock removed that problem outright it immediately had to be banned because compfags find heavy to be so not-weak that they find the game less fun when he gets involved.
>>722306203Scrawny baby man scout fingers typed this post
>>722314925Make all his snipers only headshot on full charge like the classic
>>722312693soldier is a very agile sidegrade to demo if you're not retarded and use gunboats and learn to dodge incoming damage with them
>>722305987>jump revs around the cornerToo bad, so sad.
>>722314925Razorback -20% ammo, can't use dispensers, can't heal from mediguns, -60% damage from melee sources from the back and shock effect for any class. Doesn't break. Knives uniquely deal 80 damage a pop.DDS no longer has fire res. +25 hp and +10 extra ammo. Jarate(and milk btw) work on sandman rules, close range lasts for 3 seconds, long range lasts for 10. Mediguns no longer remove ANY status effects.Buff all his melees that aren't bushwacka so that it isn't the only viable option.Classic can headshot, increased damage penalty that stays on headshots.No longer auto unscopes. When charged, there is a visible glint on his scope(classic exempt). 30% longer reload time on all rifles.
>>722328556Until a heavy shoots you dead at air and realize you could accomplish more as demo.Still direct hit is my favorite weapon in game.
>>722315527medic and engineer are not low skill requirement classes in the slightest, if you've seen new players pick them you'd know that.
>>722312962>he causes the enemy team to be more cautious and watch their backWhich is what you should be doing to deal with potential flankers to begin with.What you're saying is spy actually causes his opponents to play better.>picking off classes like medicMedic is probably the biggest reason spy is weak. The most valuable target in the game is also the least backstabbable when played well because medic has zero obligation to ever look in any direction. A competent medic can devote his entire attention to his surroundings because he doesn't even need to look at who he is healing.>and he's the only class that can shut down a nest of multiple sentriesThe engineer/spy matchup is very much stacked against spy. And multiple sentries means multiple engineers able to focus the spy down.
TF2C came up with a really cool idea for Heavy and I'm really impressed by it.https://youtu.be/XzPsCTfMcFE
>>722330082demo is slow as shit since it's not even feasible to jump between packs in pubsbombing as him is also kinda shit due to the class's inherent jank, you're pigeonholed down to being the main pushing grunt and you get disrupted easilysoldier is better at all those things
>>722330350Isn't that the shit everyone hated because it turned out to be extremely OP?
>>722330623I haven't played TF2C, so I don't know. I just saw the video a few days ago and thought it was neat.
>>722323409yeah except the tomislav will let you catch other heavies unrevved because that's the whole point of the thing, so that argument is very valid.
I dreamed last night that I was playing cp_orange and harassing a bunch of engineers in the middle building as spy
>>722330691I do actually think there is potentially in the idea of a projectile-based cannon for the heavy. Something that opens his options for a long range weapon but makes him more vulnerable up close when he's using it. So it contrasts his minigun. Better yet, don't have it replace minigun. Just make it a second option in his arsenal so he has more options and depth. He's Heavy WeaponS Guy. He can have more than one.But the way TF2C seems to go about it. Which really is just trying to make a cannon equivalent of the minigun, I'm not surprised people hated it.
>>722331280I can see it being a problem. Heavy could deny any open area with that AA cannon. One could argue he'd be way less useful with it on enclosed maps, BUT if he has a Medic humping his ass it'll still be a broken.
>>722327394>And then get people try and insist he's the weakest class.it's almost like OP is posting ragebait for (You)s or somethingimagine that
>>722315914Not a straight upgrade but it is a gay upgrade>>722322318>If you play pubs you could face a brass beast or stock heavy or even multipleAnd have an easy time of things by fighting at the range where you out damage them (which isn't even that far, tomislavs DPS loss literally only matters at really close ranges) or catching them up close unrevved.Add to that the insane advantages you get with a silent rev. Seriously how the fuck did valve approve that?>>722323409>The whole heavy 1v1 argument is stupid when you shouldn't be caught unrevved anywayBy that same logic you shouldn't be caught up close which puts tomislav at an advantage.
fat scout is very fun on king of the hill. and ctf, if you have an engineer with a dispenser, or a medic. otherwise i would never touch heavy.
>>722306089>class exists entirely to hog the resources of another player's classIs this good class design?
>>722314925There's nothing to "fix" you fucking two straight years of the worst fucking updates and subhuman fucking mongoloids STILL insist on begging Valve to make the game worse because they suck at it.
>>722331968Yes you fucking retard, it's GOOD design for the TEAM BASED CLASS SHOOTER to have CLASSES work together as a TEAM, and the heavy isn't "stealing" your health.
>>722330350TF2C already made heavy busted as all hell by giving him his old ramp up but with his new tighter spread and drop off.
>>722330691It was hated. apparently it went through a ton of iterations before it hit the live game, but it was still pretty absurd. I STILL dislike it>It's burst damage, so you can't just peek heavy>it's hitscan, and at least at launch it worked like a flak cannon so it was very difficult to miss >It has a hard range cap, but the vast majority of practical fighting in TF2 happens within that range cap >doing self damage up close is supposed to be a weakness- but practically speaking, this means you're probably going to trade, at best>to further nullify this weakness, it minicrits anyone who's considered high enough off of the ground (a little over one jump iirc) so have fun blast jumping in a high damage tank like heavy is only really tolerable if you can keep him out. the minigun is better once you've gotten in because you can quickly shred an entire team, much faster than you could than the AA cannon- but the AA cannon presents way more situations where you're just kind of fucked against heavy. do not like it.
>>722332091sniper is objectively broken according to the developer commentary>[Charlie Brown] The sniper rifle was another tricky design problem. To meet players' expectations, a sniper rifle has to be able to kill an opponent with a single shot to the head. On the flip side, we need to ensure it can't be snap fired from the hip with the same effect, because then, in the hands of an experienced player, it also becomes the game's most lethal short range weapon, negating the Sniper's primary weakness. To solve this, we implemented a charging damage meter that only appears when the sniper is zoomed. This solution has several beneficial side effects:The low damage both while un-zoomed and at the initial zoom ensures that Snipers can't kill opponents with impromptu snap fire. The charge time means Snipers can deal out low damage shots quickly or highly damaging shots at slow intervals, which allows opponents to overwhelm them with a coordinated rush. The high damage at the end of the charge rewards Sniper-esque behaviors, such as locating a decent vantage point and taking very deliberate shots.modern snipers just sit in sentry sightlines spamming quickscopesthat's impromptu snapfire with zero deliberation that can't be overwhelmed with a coordinated rush
>>722331968No.Not only do heavy players suffer for being so dependant on having another player to be able to play their class effectively. Just from a "trying to have fun" perspective needing someone else would suck. But medic players suffer for having so much of the gameplay of their class get funnelled to "heal this one guy most of the time".It's a combo where the entire enjoyment is derived from it being effective instead of it actually making for fun gameplay.>>722332162Good teamwork is medic healing everyone and everyone having to put in effort to protect the medic because the medic doesn't get to just stand in a safe zone created by the heavy.
>>722314925Smaller ammo count, buff spy in some way that lets him deal with sniper easier, make him demoman speed when not using Huntsman, get rid of the fucking, fucking razorback. Harshest thing i can think of is a nerf to point blank quick scopes to make him more vulnerable at short range, but i hate how the inverse feels on Ambassador spy, so I'm not sure if I can totally say that should happenOh, and let Huntsman give him some extra hp or something, like 135, 140. It would be a dream to make rifle sniper less of a big fat gay class to face, but I get that nerfing him to be useless and unfun to actually choose to play isn't the way either
TF2C's new Pyro weapons are IMO much more fun and interesting>single shot FaN that lets pyro blast jump, turning him into a way more threatening flanker/roamer at the cost of sacrificing almost all of his ranged potential>axe that actually rewards pyro for successfully playing hit and run by both giving him lifesteal off of burn while the axe is active and gradually building up to a single axe crit
>>722311378Don't be afraid to play him more like spy or scout. Flank with him. Also learn to do light charges and half charges and their arcs. Players don't expect a half release and might just wander directly into the shot.Honestly not baiting when I say Huntsman is the most skill intensive primary for Sniper and you're going to have to put in the time to get good with it no matter what people meme, but it's really fun once you get a hang of it
>>722332204Until that cannon came along TF2C heavy was actually weaker than regular TF2's heavy.It's not a "new tighter spread", it's actually reimplementing a tightening that was done with the heavy at one point in regular tf2 but it wasn't documented for some reason so loads of tf2 players think it never happened. Meanwhile his rev penalty was actually added to compensate for the faster rev times possible with stock and tomislav (valve only realised after it was too late how much of a mistake faster rev times were). But since that rev buff to stock and the tomislav were never put in TF2C the rev penalty wasn't necessary.
>>722330623it is beyond that, it completely ruined the mod. then they doubled down and added even more broken shit.
>>722305987He's good with support and map awareness, but I'll never play him much because dying and getting back to the frontline is such a chore compared to every other class.
>>722332808forgot to mention the axe makes everyone burning instantly extinguish if you die. it's more of a downside than you think, but I don't think it's enough to make it worse than stock personally. I also don't really care though because the plays you can pull off thanks to those items make pyro actually feel kind of like a power class instead of a weird niche gimmick support class that makes bad players mad
>>722312693Soldier has jump options and banners, a good battalions can save the entire game
>>722306203>Shotguns acting like shotguns is somehow worse than randomly dealing 3x base damage
>>722316484You say that but spy got a base move speed buff what, 2 years ago?
>>722305987>sniper is broken overpowered gamestopping god of death>heavy is the weakest classi swear you're all retards who don't think about positioning and just run in the open alone every single life
>>722323356I miss years ago when you could decloak directly behind somebody to get a backstab. God them changing the volume on cloak after the ammo pickup buff was such a shame
>>722324028What other class needs to mirror itself to soft counter it?
>>722333564MedicDemo
>>722324028why should a class that works independently and naturally leeches teamplay off their teammates require coordination to take down?
>axtinguisher nerfed into unusability because it's too unbalanced if the closerange specialist has a strong melee combo>caber nerfed into unusability because it's too unbalanced if the midrange specialist has a strong melee (even if it comes at a heavy cost)>jarate+bushwacka unchanged since release because it's perfectly balanced if the long-range specialist class (that's meant to be weak at close range) has a strong melee combo (tied to what was already his best secondary and with essentially no downside)explain
>>722333719>MedicSpy, Scout, Soldier, Sniper, Pyro, Demoman, literally just targeting him and flanking.>DemomanSpy, Scout, Soldier, Sniper, Pyro, literally just running towards him in a zigzag motion
>>722331968no, scout should be removed
>>722313042Very nice work, Anon.
>>722333719Soldier shits on demo, though
niggas always be like "bro just stay out of the sightline and flank the sniper" but imagine just for a second that I'm a sniper bitching that it's so unfair that people are staying out of the sightline and flanking me. would you tell me "tough shit that's how it's meant to be"? no nigga you'd say "you're a fucking retard, move to a better sightline covered by a sentry to fix all your issues". and suddenly RUH OH SHAGGY it turns out the "just flank him" advice only applied to mentally retarded snipers with no awareness and a good sniper actually has no counterplay, what a surprise!
>>722333480They now just edit the files and put a fucking alarm to replace the uncloacking sound so the dont even need to wear hedphones to know there is a spy nearby
>>722333862>>722334005i guess you're right about demo i was just thinking of removing sticky piles quickly. one team not having a medic is bad though
>>722334297It's an open secret that Medic is overpowered and bullshit, but that's OK because nobody wants to play him anyways and his mere existence is necessary as a bandaid fix for the natural stalematey nature of the game
>>722305987literally the only class worth playing in zombie infection.
>>722334469medic is what gives this game any depthwithout him it's just two engineers on each team establishing supply lines and grinding the game down to pure spam
>>722334170>disguises past sentry>scorch shots>arcs stickies over cover>vaccinators>countersnipes complacent sniper
>>722332204>>722332856Adding to this TF2C also doesn't have heavy's faster movespeed when revved. Probably the biggest buff heavy ever got.
>>722306810Skill issue.
>>722306203So you want a sniper to cross map you with an smg??? >>722333209Thats not what random bullet spread is. Random bullet spread is when shooting a weapon like the minigun or smg the bullets shoot off in minor deviation. If you didn't have random bullspread, the heavy could wipe a team standing on one side of 2fort.
>>722324028>People forget that it is *Team* Fortress 2I fucking wish people would realised how stupid this argument sounds. It's not clever or witty and if you actually paid attention you could see how much TF2's success has been thanks to the ways it actually downplays teamwork.
>>722305987He's a defensive bastion that's tough to deal with if he's supported properly.
>>722334669You only need to play a shooter which doesn't have healer roles to see how much of a invented problem they are. I've never played a game which doesn't have them and thought the game would be improved with their inclusion. In fact I've been fucking thankful when a game doesn't have that shit.>without him it's just two engineers on each team establishing supply lines Yeah medic has been designed to address a problem introduced with engie. But then you would make sure to rework engie if you were going to attempt tf2 without medic. Or make sure "uber" still exists in the game in some form. Would definitely help if it didn't require the least popular class being played.
>>722308991about 90 different things could have also killed you in that situation, especially when there was ample time for someone to run up and kill you during the taunt you were about to start
>>722307398>It must come out as an exact 3x3 pellet gridActually good point. Why the fuck was anyone even asking for this and why tf2 players of all people? Games with a much higher focus on competition don't even do this. Everyone just understands that shotguns are not worth using outside of close range because all the pellets will miss. Uncle dane really done irreparable damage to this community.
>>722335462shooters without medics are either slow as shit or have health regen
>>722313136>Spy only has invisibility. Everything else about him is shitty gimmick thus don't work against good players.
>>722335813kek
>>722335743No reason for them to be slow as shit. Game dev can choose how generous to make health packs. If anything it's easier since you "how many players are healers" is no longer an unknown when there aren't healers.And yeah many have health regen. As long as it isn't a gamemode that's prone to stalemating health regen works.
>>722335813Ah yeah I forgot about the Kunai's Shadow Clone Jutsu ability.
>>722314925Buff spy so he has an easier time shutting down snipers. Or remove razorback
>>722314925team colored laser glint (like battlefield scope glint) if he is looking within 5 degrees of youreduce the rifle ammo count to 10
>>722314925hes fine but if my arm was twisted and i needed to nerf him somehow, make every primary but the huntsman have tracer rounds. as for rifles that already have tracers, classic can stay unchanged because its a bad weapon and the machina gets less max ammo.
>>722305987The point is to shoot bullets at guys until they're dead, moron.
I know people say spy is weak but man I love that class so much its unreal. When you actually do pull off stupid shit like a Kunai backstab into a sentry surf into surf backstab and then gun down somebody with a revolver that can punch way higher on damage than you'd expect a stealth class to do, it becomes so unique. Don't think there's anything close to spy in any other fps and that's a crying shame
>>722307837sex>>722313042sex
>>722335592Amusing because panic attack do exactly that. Also valve shotguns have way more range than most games.
>top-scoring >feeling like a god>lose>bottom-scoring>can’t seem to do anything useful>winWhy is it like this
>>722337989Doing better on the scoreboard does imply your teammates are worse meaning your overall team isn't as good.
>>722308991green circle crosshair gang
>>722337989>Doing fucking great, killing medics, landing airshots, crits and all the jazz>Die to some bullshit or sniper>Last get immediately capped.
>>722329946>DDSIs the biggest offender Sniper has, it shuts down the majority of Pyros arsenal and mechanics. I hate it so much.t. Pyro main
>>722305987Not being able to attract a pocket medic and inspire the engineer to build a dispenser, it's a skill issue.git gud
>>722338495Most people agree the current darwin's shield is absolute cancer for which I am fucking thankful. Playing pyro is fairly popular these days.
>easiest class in the game>noone knows how to play himwho knew heavy would be the greatest filter of them all
>>722338664>Buy a cheap unusual>Suddenly medics start paying attention on me or give priority.
>>722338342>thumbnailholy flashbang. valve HATES the dragons fury
>>722306284God, I hate scout's stock pistol. Only good for plinking down buildings.
>>722338664I get that scorch spam can be cancer, but using scorch as an excuse for DDS is peak hypocrisy. Any sniper who is getting ambushed by a Pyro should be dead.
>>722306810Umm, sweaty. That's the snowball effect. They played skillfully, so they're rewarded with more damage. Random crits are skill-based.
>>722338343>Not doing anything particularly out of the ordinary>No crazy killstreaks or high risk picks, just occasionally plinking at people coming out of a choke>Die>Entire defensive line collapses and the point gets taken>This happens on all three stages of the map
>>722332808tf2c models used to look clean but nowadays you get shit like this. doesnt even look like a fucking tf2 gun
>>722339034>[Kelly Thornton] Critical hits are one of the features that resulted from our focus on pacing. The critical hit system attempts to slightly influence the highs and lows of the game, by increasing the chance of a critical hit based upon the player's recent performance. In summary, the better you're doing, the more likely you'll continue to do well. This helps create those rare high moments, where a single player goes on a rampage and gets 3 or 4 kills in rapid succession.Honestly It should be other way around. It's fine with medic or engie because they are too busy doing their own shit.
>>722313042did you draw it too? goddamn i love some heavy hangers
>>722305987Low level equalizer. A new player can pick heavy, park on a payload and provide good value to his team. At least that's how it should work if spy's faggot ass kunai didn't exist. As it stands mediocre spies can farm shit players for infinite health for no risk
>>722339324I drew and animated it, there's one with boob bounce.https://files.catbox.moe/zm1tce.gif
>>722306686Based “topfragger”
>>722339516absolutely blessed>slight tummyA GOD AMONG MEN
>>722339209>Tell retards to not spawn camp, just stay in a good position and kill whatever gets nearby>They don't give a shit and go for camping>2 minutes later whole killfeed is blue
>>722338889Can you hide the DF's flame like you can by changing the viewmodel FoV with the normal flamer, or does it count as a rocket type projectile so it always shows up?
>>722339516that thigh spillover is magicalim sure other things played into it, but i blame about 50% of my gas mask fetish on pyro
>>722338852>medics still ignore you because you only have a glowing hat and not two glowing halloween cosmetics plus a $400 animated taunt that makes you shit neon lights during setup
>>722338947One of the big red flags that valve weren't putting much thought into it was how the thing isn't even visible from the front. Razorback was a terrible idea but at least there was a logic to something relevant to backstabbing being visible from the back. How is a pyro trying to countersnipe a sniper supposed to see the shield that's on the sniper's back?
>>722339848oh shit you're right>skindentation changes as she bouncesOOUUGGHHH>but i blame about 50% of my gas mask fetish on pyrosame
>>722335462when I play medic I never wanna heal, I just wanna have the highest K/D on the server with the blutsauger
was spy good before 2010?
>>722339897Where is your australium weapon brah?
>>722339738>>722339848I'm currently taking requests on fempyro btw, been lusting over latex. I also got commissioned to animate fempyro being milked at the moment.
>>722337771because quake 1 was the base of the game/source engine
>>722313042>>722339516
>>722340124I don't think spy was ever really good. He did seem better because players were less experienced back then and people hadn't really thought about the problems with his design as much.Height of spy was probably during the height of the amby though.
>>722339395I hate dead ringer so fucking much.
It kinda baffles me that they never fixed hit detection. A point blank shotgun can miss for fucks sake.
>>722340571this game has this fucking feel that you have to constantly practice to keep it. If I go more than a week without playing the fucking game feels alien.
>>722340565>Pre-Nerf Dead RingerWhat a time.
>>722340417when did each class peak? i know combo pyro did a shitton of damage and that wrangler was even worse than now
>>722340818Pyro probably peaked with reserve shooter comboing. Maybe release phlog?He might even have peaked with 225 hp backburner but that shit only lasted a few weeks and it's hard to be certain that people just weren't used to pyro actually being a threat for once.
>>722340728They fixed lot of jank for MVM but never applied to main game. For example, melee no longer intersect friendlies.
now ive played more than 200 hours i think payload sucks it's just projectile spam and turtling engies, if you keep playing on them you'll never improve and always be a shitter, i can see why compfags prefer much larger maps with verticality and 5cp because you can actually flank and use your brainctf is even worse but nobody plays that
>>722341217payload fucking blows, not looking forward to those halloween contracts.
>>722341143Reserve shooter honestly was never that great.>It's potentially 130 damage in a single shot!That's straight up just a shotgun shot and igniting someone.
>>722340227>requestsuhh>spoilergoddamn itif thats already being done, maybe a low angle shot of her bent over the viewer, swinging the jugs and hips back and forth. should be a simple enough loop.personal request would be for an all-black/gray alt. maybe keep the orange highlights to keep it identifiable.
>>722340227ill give you another one for shits and gigglesdo something with the infernal imp for halloween, some sort of flying motion should give you plenty to work with
>>722340227How about fempyro filling and throwing jars of her milk at someone offscreen? Mvm robot fempyro maybe?
>>722340156Australium isn't color matched to my items.>>722340227Anywhere to follow?
>>722342457@MMute935>>722342317I'll pass, kinda silly.>>722342116>>722341550I kinda planned on having succubus pyro with all the old halloween set to do some breast/tail sway.
>>722342579>succubus pyroabsolutely vintage, i respect it
>>722340314Eh.... Lot of jank still can be traced from doom. Like sphere hitboxes being actual cubes.
>>722342813Okay but that's completely irrelevant because the Quake engine is so different from the Doom engine, but TF2's behavior all traces directly back to Quake. Including the shotgun spread, imitating the Q1 single shotgun's tight spread. Every movement quirk in TF2 comes from Source comes from GoldSrc comes from Quake.
>>722337771>Amusing because panic attack do exactly that.Yeah because that's it's gimmick. I really don't know what kind of point you were trying to make with that, especially when the stock shotgun is still preferred over the panic attack.
>>722342983Goldsrc actually fixed lot of quake jank while keeping some for gameplay, source did more obviously, but also both engines introduced their own kind of jank, ctap is the main one due how physics are calculated.
>>722305987>What’s the point of a class that has some of the highest DPS in the game, and has so much health that he’s the only class in the game with more overheal than classes have regular health>Oh and said class is so oppressive in competitive that compfags have to do everything in their power to make Heavy sucki don’t know what you’re talking about, but in real TF2 Heavy is one of the best classes in the game. Yeah he’s going to be shit if you make rules specifically to make him bad.
>>722305987Why do people take this game seriously
>>722305987My main is sniper/demo and my extensive quake/cs experience lends me perfect accuracy with heavy. I have fun with him, but he does require support to frontline as with most bullet magnets (tanks) in the world.
LET ME EQUIP SHOTGUN PRIMARY AND SANDWICH VALVE
>>722342317>How about fempyro filling and throwing jars of her milk at someone offscreen?We have femscout for that...
>>722342579Mad milk is silly? Boo.
>>722343837Since I'm already working on a gag of engineer getting scout mad milk and he's wondering where the milks are coming from.
>>722342579could use the tail to tug up the harness for some good ol indentationas an aside, get as close as you can to a water balloon animating the ass. i wanna see ripples if that shit is smacked.
>>722343743that's just fat scout
Almost 20 years of whining about balance. The same arguments over and over again.
>>722341354That’s 130 at once.If you counted total damage in a vacuum, the axtinguisher would be nearly 100% a downgrade from the stock axe and be on par with the hot hand.It isn’t and is still considered a good weapon because instant damage > damage over time if you use the same values. That’s because a lot can happen in those seconds it takes for afterburn to deal the final hit. Your opponent can find some healing source, water, use jarate/milk on themselves or from a teammate, get airblasted, capture an objective, kill you, kill a teammate, etc.
>>722305987>sit on cart with minigun revved up for entire game>effortlessly win and top the score board>this happens in roughly 1/3 of payload games
>>722344406i do this lol
>>722308358try 'properly positioning' on swiftwater attack
>>722341312idk i feel like i get better every time i play 5cp which is satisfying, you can try new stuff and such since the map is more open and dynamic so they give more options for players, but on dogshit maps like dustbowl or harvest it's just the same shit over and over againthe popular ones are just two sides spamming projectiles
>>722305987Heavy's good for suppression and killing one people at a time.Get good positioning and don't overpush.
>play demo zombie on zombie infection>m2 into any taunt>???>SHUN DEMO SATSU (alternatively, raging alcoholic)
>>722343958based post
>>722306203Random crits are unfair but fun. Random spread is unfair AND unfun. That's why I stick with the Panic Attack.
>>722344171genuinely lean into fat-scout, if they can make shit up entirely for demoknight (or the sandvich itself really, it ended up completely overshadowing all possible secondaries for heavy, more food items than shotguns) or give overt anti-class options like the darwin's danger shield and ambassador then they can work fat-scout's weiner a little bit
>>722345204random spread tends to prefer a tighter cone than the 3x3 dumbass square that the panic attack and no-spread allows, much prefer how shotguns work with random spread. praise allah that casual matchmaking with no player-controllable rules is the default TF2 game mode
>>722345414That's bullshit, the 3x3 square of the fixed spread shotguns and Scattergun is ridiculously tight compared to the average random spread. It's half the reason Scouts are so crazy powerful in competitive and on fixed spread servers, their 'oh fuck' damage range is way further than you expect since half the pellets aren't taking a left turn at Albuquerque.
>>722341217>it's just projectile spam and turtling engiesthat's 5cp in a nutshell. if there is a single competent engie on either team the game slows to a crawl and it sucks all the fun out of the server and you're guaranteed to have 6+ soldier and demo mains in your average 5cp match so you have even more spam than usual.
>>722305987He's great in pub games, especially if the enemy team is full of retards.
>>722343465>Oh and said class is so oppressive in competitive that compfags have to do everything in their power to make Heavy suckThis was overblown. Heavy's mobility unlocks were unbanned and he still isn't played. He's annoying at best and if you can't focus fire him down you just break out sniper to deal with him.
>>722346478wouldn't he btfo everyone with natasha
>>722346609Slow rev speed and lolnodamage.You're really fucking slow if you want to not get caught unrevved.Tomislav heavy is better anti air.
>>722305987I am spy main and I love playing as sneaky heavy.Backshots and other surprises
>>722346861natascha is only good for trolling scout mains.
heavy serves the team by forcing the enemy to prioritze him before they deal with anyone else, thus letting scunts, frenchfags, basedldiers and pyro fags advancehope this helps!
Spy disguise kit unlock>Super Pantsu Zasshi Hentai>Spy wears panties on his head and the disguise kit replace is replace by a dirty magezine>Instead of disguising as the other classes, you disguise as what each class would lust over (Ms Pauling as Scout, Alcohol with boobs as Demoman, Scout’s mom as Spy, etc.)>Each disguise gives Spy a 50% resistance to the class he disguises as and a 15% resistance to the other classes>If you are disguised as the engineer slot, sentry guns will be distracted entirely by you and not fire. The sentry gun having heart eyes too
>>722306089same can be said for most classes.
>>722305987OKTOBERFEEEEEEEST
>>722305987I got a really edgy looking heavy, I like to equip the Natasha with an annoying nametag and see how many people get pissed
>>722308991Harvest is just a horrendous scout/sniper hell to begin with
>>722314058So far all the anti-friendlies I have seen have been all consistently menchildren. Just ignore the little autists nig.
>>722339832Yes. It's just an oversized flame particle.
200hp of pyro ass
>>722314925Make him unable to hear his teammates. The deepest spots in hell are not reserved for Snipers, but for those who tell their pubstomping Snipers "Spy behind you"Remove the bushwackaGive him long reload timesThat's it
>>722349169>200hp of pyro assOn my lap
>>722349313On my dispenser (it will not survive)
>>722305987W+M1 but good
>>722315527This is flawed and in many waysBut I do not want to write an essay, so I'll be brief. Spy to high skill requirement with still 1 hard counter, Sniper to moderate skill requirement with 1 hard counter (Spy), Medic and Engineer aren't really countered by Spy, Demo also moderate with 1 hard-counter (Scout), and Soldier yeah he does really stay there.
>>722349551That'd require a whole lot more than 200 hp worth of pyro ass
>>722349605>Sniper countered by Spy>Equip a shield>Stay near teamOkay
>>722306967One time I was playing scout, and I ran into a heavy, so I ran around a tree and shot him with the scatter gun, alternating between hiding and shooting, and he died. Though tbf he didn't have a medic with him
>>722305987You like Doom? Run around with the shotgun, whip out the chaingun when you're in a good setup. I like hopping around until I'm in the enemy back line, KGB someone, then use the minigun with guaranteed crits, usually nets me 3 kills before I die.
>>722314925I have had this lingering thought for a while. What about getting experimental and reducing his HP? To something like 100 or even 50. What happens with Sniper is that, at his extreme range and safety, 125 becomes quite forgiving for a supposedly squishy class. What if we made it so long range chip damage actually matters for him, and if his supposedly bad close range situation is met, he actually just dies?
>>722314925give the rifle a clip and actual reload
>>722347772Not true at all. Soldier and demo need to reload and pyro is short ranged.
are you guys gonna go trick or treating?
>>722311378https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PSGD-pJUrMObtain arcane knowledge of source jankness.
>>722307175to be fair TF2C is pretty dog shit when it comes to balancing weapons>dude so you know how people hate sniper? well what if we gave him a rifle that gave him less tunnel vision, increased max health, but in turn idk headshots only deal 120 damage (you also have a clip of 6 that can be rapidly fired). and that's saying nothing about the custom weapons servers
>>722323409no, tomislav is a literal upgrade in every way
>>722352361No sound makes it the best. I love being a sneaky lil heavy
>>722314925Just make the laser a lot more obvious, instead of just a dot when he's full charge, you should be able to see the line from the sniper too, allowing for more interactivity from both sniper and opponentThe rest is just map design really
Hello, contracts?
>>722351945no im 26 but I am going to a costume party
>>722305987>L...literally th...the weak-ACK"
>>722313042>>722339516these are great, thanks
>>722352361If you are playing 'optimally' you should be very defensive as heavy. You are too slow to really be an effective uber target. You spend less time with GRU out and can abuse FoS instead. You negate two of your counters, sniper and spy, by just staying situationally aware and not peeking unnecessarily. Eating a shit ton of damage as heavy at your effective range is unavoidable in most situations so the damage output to damage taken is just not worth when a demo/sniper can shit out damage from further away and you can clean up their kills. Bodyguarding sniper/demo/medic while they do work just makes more sense. All three of those classes are weakest at very close range where the minigun shines. The only exception is headglitching on the payload but if you lose momentum at any point it can be extremely difficult to make it back to the cart without dying. None of this matters in pubs though because good demos are so rare, nobody focus fires heavies like they should, and snipers can get away with less protection with 12 players on a team standing in front of them.
>>722305987the point of the heavy is that he's a big guy (for you) with a lot of health. you put him on the point with a medic to lock that shit down or you use him and a medic to lead a charge through breakpoints. the real question should be "what is the point of the pyro" because all its good for is killing bad spies and spraying gay furry sex everywhere
>>722354862>"what is the point of the pyro"In my experiencePissing everyone off with airblastsEspecially Soldiers and Demomen
more tf2 discussion in this one thread than in several of /tf2g/+
>>722355029so, best used as a defense for sentries
>>722307398overwatch only started to suck when they forced you to play certain classes
>>722314925headshots minicrit unless fully chargedthis also effectively buffs the classic a bit too
>>722355364/tf2g/ is nothing but a fetid carcass filled with schizos constantly shitting the place upIt's less than worthless for actual discussion
>join ANY server>like 7 different hornypostersya we get it you're open about your sexuality. thats not a fucking achievement it just makes you a nuisance.
>>722355519more debate on the OP image, demofloyd spam, shupo spam and fempyro spam than anything related to the game. its only somewhat worth visiting within 3 days of an "update"
>>722314925Re-apply the 0.2 second scope-in headshot delay every time he suffers aimpunch from damage.Fix the inaccuracy of the dot's position relative to the sniper's aim over long distances.
>>722354862>what is the point of the pyroSpychecking, delaying pushes with airblast spam, and sacrificing yourself to deny ubers. That's about it.
>>722354862the TRUTHNUKE is that pyro is a useless class with no true purpose. his existence is owed to the presence of shit players that couldnt do anything with any other class in tf quake, so they shat out the pyro: a class even easier than it is bad, literally anyone could play him. thats what he was in tf quake, tfc and even in 2007 tf2.but the thing is, tf2 is very very casual, every single class became easier to play than before due to a multitude of changes, so pyro, as the designated shitter class, had no true purpose anymore. and from there on out theyve been giving him bandaid fix after bandaid fix, but after a decades worth of live service he still remains a class that w m1s spies because they never fucking changed his core.
>>722355385If you want a real answer, the point of Pyro is to be a bodyguard for your teamReflecting projectiles, dissuading Spies and Scouts from approaching, stuffing Ubers, and so onIn practice you're a defensive/support class despite having the offence roleYou can also flank, but that's much more map dependent and you have to get dangerously close to anyone in order to be a threatPyros are also particularly good at running down multiple Medics due to afterburn reducing healing by 50% and Vacc resistances by 20%You're never going to do anything fancy or flashy (for the most part) but a good Pyro can keep your team safe from a lot of threats
>>722356252so many words, so much shit the community came up with to justify his eternal state of uselessness, and it still all boils down to "wm1 spies and wm2 ubers, reflect rockets or enjoy always dying to soldier, be the worst class at doing anything if youre not doing one of those 3 things"
>>722305987they should unironically give Heavy a forth slot just for his lunchbox items. I doubt having both a sandwich AND decent burst damage would suddenly make Heavy OP especially since all his counters would remain the same.
>>722356513You can be reductive like that about any class
>>722306307>They should just replace Heavy with an assault rifle class with frag grenades for blast jumping.wasn't there some Chinese tf2 bootleg that had a class that exactly that and they quickly ended up being the most OP class in the game?
>>722355586Yeah, it's annoying. Making being a pervert your whole personality is cringe.
>>722305987Its all fun and games until there's a Russian army pushing the cart.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-VbAZcyZ_U
>>722355586>>722356810>had once a troon with trans rights on name join the server>he immediately starts talking about pornlike clockwork
Stock - Just isTomislav - Gay and unoriginal. Tryhard's weapon of choiceNatasha - Hates fun or loves hates. Or just a total loser who cant hit shots but prolly the formerBrass Beast - Sentry roleplayersHuo-Long Heater - Payload players or swap to it due to many pyros on the team or because player is new and wants to counter spy.Heavy really needs a primary that isnt just point and shoot
>>722356707yes, but being reductive about any other class gives you very broad, vague statements, which speaks to how useful they are, while pyro only does these very specific niche things really well and sucks at everything else.soldiers job is to blow up fucking anything. thats all he does. and guess what? hes good at blowing up fucking anything. medic heals people, scout uses his mobility to dominate 1v1s, spy backstabs people and saps sentries, etc.i dont have to mention anything else about them, while for pyro you said hes a bodyguard (in other words, less important than everyone else because hes shit), that hes this weird mix of defense/support (not good at either of those, but he falls into it because his offense is so shit) and had to bring up how hes decent at killing medics because of some obscure (and buggy!) mechanic most players have never even heard of. youre grasping at straws thats what youre doing
>>722315626>hardscope as intendedI don't understand why retards think he's intended to be hardscoped all day to do anything and quickscoping is just an oversight. They literally already knew people were quickscoping and added a time limit before headshots counted because people were a bit too fast. They also had another popular multiplayer FPS where quickscoping was a thing. It is working as intended. They had all the time in the world, obviously weren't opposed to adjusting it, and (unlike even bigger retards think) they also clearly knew people were capable of quickscoping and aiming back then if they wanted to force him to hardscope.
>>722357338the sad thing is that, had the heavy update come out, valve wouldve definitely shit the bed with the weapons like they did with pyro. hed get some weird gimmicky primary that is worse than a minigun in every situation and annoying to use
>>722356210the actual truthnuke is that pyro isnt allowed to have a niche because of the perceived "low skill" of the class and valve's inability to do anything but fuck it over to appease the true room temps, anti-pyros>phlog has the health refill and damage resistance during the taunt - allows you to eat the crits and use the health refill to exist in odd places on the map without health packs - patched out in favor of the uber so that retards could pop crits in a crowd>puff n sting (old airblast arc) - only barely better than just flaming the enemy down, but disrupts mobile classes - patched out because light class players didnt like that they couldnt do anything about getting flared when they were out of position in the first place>initial jungle inferno flamethrower damage ramp up - did a shitton of damage and made the pyro an actual threat at close range for once in the class' lifetime - patched out because people hated that the attacker class was threatening in its effective range>initial dragons fury - didnt have the "center of the fireball has to hit the player for the bonus damage to apply" trait, made it feel consistent and rewarding - patched out because, again, the pyro was very briefly threatening to baddies who are used to the class being uselessimagine if they released a sniper item that reduced all explosion damage by 50% and negated splash damage, it would be patched out in a day from the backlash. meanwhile the darwins is fine because its an anti-pyro weapon.
>>722346292It's 5cp but only at its worst.Basically you play 5cp hoping to god that everyone on the server understands it's a gamemode you're meant to play aggressively. When that happens, when everyone is just flanking everyone else. It's the most god damn fun to be had in the game.The problem is you get twats who don't understand this and turtle up. Then everyone end up having to stay on their side of the field and shoot each other. Then you get the spam the anon talks about.That's the thing about payload and A/D, one team turtling up is the entire point of those gamemodes. So it needs to be said 5cp is only shit when it starts resembling how the other game modes play normally.
>>722357420>Afterburn>Obscure and buggy mechanic???
>>722339516Now draw her pregnant
Demoknight annoys me the most, not because it's good, but because it's annoyingly rare to find a proper demo.>>722354862Heavy is too slow to make good use of uber.
>>722319271Because their favorite youtuber complained so they do and pretending you have balance concerns is a popular way to try and get something you personally don't like and don't want to play around nerfed or at least openly reviled. There's probably a nonzero amount of people in here that don't even play the game or have any real experience with it.
>>722306203Esports fags are cancer.
>>722350085sniper can counter backstabs or scorch shots, not both and either way he loses his secondary and best melee weapon
>>722314925Headshots under 50% charge are minicrits now, base damage gets increased to 60 so quickscopes deal 81 damage (max charge is still 150), primary ammo is reduced to somewhere between 5 and 10, classic loses its scope but can always crit on headshot, huntsman is unchanged, jarate can cover the sniper if thrown too close, razorback is deleted from the game or reworked.
>>722319271It's precisely because they want to play for playing's sake that they want balance. Imagine trying to just have fun when your opponent constantly uses broken shit.
>>722357787the vaccinator shield resistance reduction and medic/dispenser healing reduction caused by afterburn.deliberately acting like a retard makes you a retard, remember that.
>>722358101>Has to choose between countering the class that's supposed to counter him or countering another class's only means of fighting back>Loses out on his instakill close range combo against 7/9 classesYou'll have to forgive me if I feel no sympathy for Sniper
>>722357668true but jungle infernos pyro was actually retarded because 170 damage per second with barely any aim required is fucking insane. blue moon had the right idea but valve, being the geniuses that they are, permanently broke pyros damage, so now he always deals half the damage hes supposed to ramp up to.phlog shouldve been a lightning gun.
>>722358270Anon, the stock flamethrower straight up tells you that info
>>722306203random crits should stay but with severely lower chances AND you can't get them until you've done enough damage (like 100 damage after you spawn)
>>722358585huh, never knew that was therestill buggy though, values are all over the place
>>722356252>if you're being practical you'll play pyro defensivelyIf you're being practical you wouldn't play pyro. The idea of being an engie buddy as pyro is surpassed by being a second engineer and having a second nest up. You play pyro because you do want to flank and you do want to be fancy and flashy. Because that's fun god damnit.
>>722357579I think TF2C's AA cannon is a pretty accurate depiction of what a Dragon's Fury for Heavy would be.
>>722349920300hp... maybe more. imagine
>>722358754Also wrongAfterburn is consistent It's the flame particles that are buggy as sin
>>722308991You should be forced to drink piss if you use sniper on harvest
>Learning jump maps and doing usual jump work on casual pubs>Immediately get popped by australium sniper faggots every time I try fly nearby them.
>>722356801might be thinking of TF2 Classic where custom weapons devs are obsessed with hitscan machineguns because they don't "get" why TF2 has mostly projectile weapons unless you're a hard-power or hard-defense class
>>722359172for me it's playing engineer and putting a sentry in that doorway overlooking the point off on each base's left, and sitting inside with a dispenser and rescue ranger
>>722359416Bomb low and fast. The faster you're moving the more desynced your head hitbox is.
Ran into a tf2 fujo earlier today.Thought they were just a meme but her profile was like 3 pages of sniper art and her avatar was a commission of her kissing sniper.
>>722360235Who did she shipThis is important information
>>722358569>170 damage per secondunironically fine. people look at the third attacker class and say>this should only be good at defending sentries and trading its life for 1.5 seconds of uber deniallike why not make the class an absolute problem in close range engagements? why not teach people that if they walk into a tight corridor and theyre not checking the corners, theyre gonna get sent back to spawn like they would if they walked into a revved up heavy? why was pyro put under the offensive classes if hes countered by every defensive class and one of the supports, all while never being able to push an objective/position on his own?people are just scared to let the class be powerful in any one aspect.
>>722358805With Pyro you just do what your team needs most in that matchDo you need a butt buddy for your Engineers? Equip that Homewrecker and lurk around their nestsIs there a lot of frontline rocket/grenade spam? Get into position and start reflecting them backWorried about uber pushes? Get ready to push backNothing in particular that needs worrying about? Flank and fuck about to your heart's contentPersonally I fuck around for the most part with the Backburner+Det or Degreaser+Panic depending on the map and game mode
>>722360778Engie does not need a babysitter. Go kill the soldiers and demos shooting at him instead of being an airblast bot.
>>722360897Because they're all the way over there with their teamAnd I'm all the way over here with my teamAnd I don't have the tools nor means to close that gap without getting blown upSo why not stick by a dispenser and make my problems into their problems?
>>722361070Because actually going over there and killing them is fun.
>>722355364I went there yesterday wanting to discuss their thoughts on what halloween maps they are the playing and it made me sad seeing the state of the general
>>722360235exceedingly based
>>722357579I have a theory valve actually did attempt a heavy update like they suggested they would. But they quickly were reminded how much of a shitshow trying to design for heavy is. Which killed any enthusiasm for both the update and any subsequent update thereafter.
Give it faster reload for fucks sake.
>>722361542No argument about killing them not being fun here, but if you're getting sieged by explosives and you're the only one able to mitigate that damage, leaving your post in order to possibly kill them isn't the best decisionYou're also risking getting two tapped by either class because despite being a close ranged offense class, Pyro's really goddamn bad at it unless you're doing combo Pyro or you get the jump on them which doesn't always happenYour flamethrower doesn't do nearly enough damage, let alone consistent damage, to be a true threat, and at best you'll have to make some hard reads and deflect their projectiles back into them for the kill which they can bait out by simply not firing and waiting for you to airblast
>>722362000I used to be all about this weapon. But after switching to stock, I don't see how I can't be a stock purist.
>>722362938It's really good when you need lockdown some area, specially in cramped maps. But reload really fucks up everything.>Muh spammingRegular stickies still do better.
>>722361703Yeah /tf2g/ is worthlessOn the topic of maps, I wish you could save multiple map loadouts so I can swap between groups depending on what I want to playPlus it'd make keeping preferred holiday maps select much easier and not something I have to reselect every time I launch the game because I don't want to lose my old map selection
>>722306203Random spread only has significance whenever you're shooting at something more than 20 meters away. Why would you be? Get closer numnut.
>>722308202>countersnipingNever presume you're the only sniper on the map. You're just one rage-sniper away from getting turned into a strange farm
it's back upslurs.tf
>>722307398>It's hidden drip fed dopamine that Valve put in and has you by the ballsIf you're going to make (what I'm assuming is) a gambling metaphor, at least attribute it to the actual fucking gambling system the game has in place that you spend actual money on.
killing the class that's supposed to kill you is fun.
>>722362171>, but if you're getting sieged by explosives and you're the only one able to mitigate that damage, leaving your post in order to possibly kill them isn't the best decisionBut that doesn't then mean stay by the sentry indefinitely either.It brings us back to >>722358805. That if you're playing pyro it's to have fun.
>>722364342BUT IT'S NOT FAIR, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE IN CHECKMATE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO ACTUALLY BE GOOD ENOUGH TO PUSH MY ADVANTAGE
yikes
Give Heavy a chainsaw primary and buff the steak and spirit and you'd have a actually decent brawler heavy subclass
>>722364034>make a website like this>not expecting it to immediately get attentionIs this guy a dumbass?
>>722305987it's not heavy weapons guy who has a shotgun, it's fat scout who has a minigunsimple as
>>722365243>But that doesn't then mean stay by the sentry indefinitely either.Of course not. That's when critical thinking and decision making based on the current state of the match comes into play which I assumed was obvious but I guess not>It brings us back to >>722358805. That if you're playing pyro it's to have fun.Obviously you should do whatever you find the most fun, but the point of this discussion was: what the point of Pyro isUltimately the point of every class is to have fun, but with fun being subjective and a non-answer in this situation, we have to discuss the class' strengths and weaknessesAnd regardless if you have fun with it or not, Pyro has strengths in protecting things from projectiles and is rather effective at it
>>722307175AA cannon always loses to minigun regardless of range thoughbeitThe real cancer is jumppads because most maps were not designed around flying heavies
>>722366105>That's when critical thinking and decision making based on the current state of the match comes into play which I assumed was obvious but I guess notIt's easy to think you were against the pyro actually fighting back at any point given >>722356252 pushed this notion of pyro being a defensive bodyguard.
>>722306203there isnt a better feeling in this world than insta killing some random fag with full unusual, hale's australium and 20 streak pro killstreak and he immediately replying in chat something like>random crits are fair and balancedthe seethe and butthurt just feels amazing
>>722366918>pushed this notion of pyro being a defensive bodyguard.That's unironically what Pyro is best at thoughBut even if that's the case, you should realize that you don't have to do just that
>>722365620Show SolarLight's
>>7223273946v6 is a meme and should be actively ignored in balance discussion as most classes are clearly more fit in a pub settingwith that out of the way heavy sucks because without a medic demoman, scout and soldier 3 shots him with scout being the only one that actually needs to be in heavy's effective range to do that, if the enemy team isnt retarded they can either evade and gradually wear down the heavy or just focus fire him, this is something that not even a medic can't fix unless he pockets 24/7 the medic (which it fucks over the rest of the team), this is without mentioning spy and sniperTLDR heavy punishes casuals but sucks vs non retarded teams
>>722306203Random crits are hilarious and based, random crits haters are faggots and cringe
>>722367538rolling heavy as a frontliner without a medic will never make sense, he's better as a guard or a sentry with a brain when in no-medic teams. ironically team fortress classic's class tips advise for exactly this guard dog behavior and meet the scout alludes to it with heavy's sandwich break
they changed how heavy aims, it used to be easy as hell to mow people down from across the map.
>>722314925All "normal primaries" except the Classic mini headshot. Sydney loses the mini headshot but gets the splash headshot back again.Fortified Compound (not Huntsman but you could apply it there if you're one of those nerds that hate lucksman shots) now gives +25 hp and autoreloads like flaregun but can't headshot at all.Razorback is now a suicide bomb that explodes on death. It does little damage but high knockback to make spy think twice about stabbing without just making him suffer, it also misfires and kills you if you take any (mini?) crit damage at all.Basically slash his DPS and make him less braindead click head without making him unplayably dogshit which is something a lot of Sniper nerfs fail to take into account
>>722305987Maybe don't play on shit maps where the sightlines are huge, and where there is so much space that makes tub of lard useless.
>>722369275lone heavy is really weak, it isn't uncommon for a scout to take him out like meet the medic.
saying heavy is bad tells me all i need to know about how you play in teams. stick to single player games.
>>722306203t.uncledane
>>722359421>TF2 ClassicGod, it's such tranny garbage.
>>722352151fucking hell, I knew it was bad but not THAT bad
>>722340314Thank god for quake.
>>722369275Yeah but the thing is heavy is not a fucking sentry, if demoman (a contender for the best damage dealer in the game) or even the fucking engineer are capable of going solo/offense why the heavy shouldnt be doing that too?
>>722352151i fucking love shitting on scunts abusing this, it makes them so mad
>>722373943Just because you can doesn't mean you should in every scenario.Yes, you can push as Heavy. Problem is that Heavy is so slow that most classes can avoid him by running away and abusing corners in fights and it's also way easier to flank when you're the slowest class in the game.Since it's nearly impossible to chase with Heavy, the best way for Heavy to get kills is by having the enemies go to him, which happens more often when are defending a good spot on a map your enemies want to take.
>>722357668>>722360689Still waiting for them to stop with the "Pyro is the high ping class for thirdies" and make the flamethrower a lightning gun and make the fat fuck like 115% base movespeed.
>>722364034Either I can't believe I'm not on here or the site doesn't work properly. >>722365998Yes.
>>722366420>AA cannon always loses to minigun regardless of range thoughbeitin theory, in practice the ability to fire around corners and lockdown doorways with spam makes it more powerful in 80% of cases. if you stand at the right range you don't even have to aim or track, just get your crosshairs within the general vicinity of the guy you're trying to kill.
Why the fuck pubs never pick medic?
>>722375687Pubs are like 50% spies and scouts because it's people who play for like 2 hours a year
I wish death timers were shorter in basically every game mode>Casual game>Some extremely mobile classes, a class with an extreme range advantage, and an instakill stealth class >TTK makes it so you can instadie>Have to twiddle my thumbs for around ~30 secondsI don't want to hear shit about "being out of position" like this is somehow a tactical shooter. Sometimes, you just go around a corner and there's a Scout there and you instantly die. That's fine but why the fuck wasn't the game balanced around shorter respawn timers? I would rather go around the same exact corner and die x5 over than have to wait 30s doing literally nothing. It's just not fun.
>>722306089Sniper still one taps him from a full map away.
>>722375687I play combat medic pretty regularly with the blautsager and most people don't know how to counter it. It's hilarious when demoknights run from you in fear.
>>722306203Removing random spread objectively buffs shotguns. If you remove it, you need to nerf shotguns to offset it. Simple as.
>>722306203Random spread is good, shotguns should have spread; random crits are fun, certain guaranteed crits are significantly more annoying than luck (and are still perfectly fine).
>>722314925No headshots, but he can now get random crits like everyone else. 150 damage from full map away is good enough. Also remove razorback, so spy can have some use in the game.
>>722305987stop playing """comp"""
>Halloween mode enabled>Soul Gargoyles appear>Soul count doesn't increase regardlessWhy is Valve like this?
>>722314925Literally just add one second to the time it takes to be able to headshot someone when you scope, that's it. Something that only affect GOOD snipers instead of all the retarded shit people keep saying that only affect BAD players.
>>722376875>Sniper>Can't snipe
>>722305987Not a single issue raised in this thread ever stopped a normal person from having fun in TF2.
>>722377863>I'M NOT HAVING FUN UNLESS I HAVE A 2+ K/D
WHERE IS HALLOWEEN>>722378138this but unironically
>>722378938next weeki can't wait for the matchmaking system to break again because there's over 150 maps to queue for! casual mode is great isn't it?
>>722378938>WHERE IS HALLOWEENEither in two days or a weekGive or takeMaybe
>>722378938a week before and after halloween, halloween mode is on right now so you can play the maps. I've been playing nothing but zombie infection so that I can not miss it for another year.
>>722307732>Zoomers love custom gamemodes and shit as evidenced by roblox and fortnite custom games.This faggot never played WC3 custom maps back in the day.
>>722312962>just the existence of a spyThe mere POSSIBILITY of maybe a spy existing, somewhere, is enough to make the entire enemy team play around it.
>shounic makes a video where sniper is banned>game plays exactly the same except it's way more fun
>>722382527>make event where people that already dislike sniper can play matches without sniper>game plays the exact same, but they say they had more fun
>>722305987I actually know how to use the heavy but whatever.
>>722375687Healing is considered a passive role in every game and retards cope thinking that it is weaker in damage, which it is rightfully so. But it’s not like you can’t carry the game, the skill expression is not appreciated as much
>>722375687medic is BORING AS FUCKeven with the crossbow you spend 90% of your time with your beam focused on one teammate praying that they get something done
>>722314925Reduce uncharged damage of the sniper rifle to 40, full charge still deals 450. Nerf jarate jar.
