hollow knight of course
silksong is troon-coded

>>722315623
I like the first one more.

They both have stuff they did better, but I think Silksong overall is the much better game. Better build variety with much much better control and general movement. Once Silksong gets it's Godhome and path of pain tho its gonna be goat

The first one. It had a better story and better areas to explore. The second one did have better movement and better boss fights, which you would think would make it better, but it just wasn't as fun.

>>722315623
Lil Ghost did everything better, which is kinda unfair for Hornet because she's being compared to a void god of gods while she's just a demigod (who resents her godly side btw).

>>722315623
Silksong was just a project where the devs channeled their repressed anger

Hollow knight is fun to explore
Silksong is exhausting

I kind of wish silksong had kept more of the colors from the original reveal trail, like sands of karak being a full sea level. As it stands it ends up having way less color than the first game.

>>722315623
>protagonist of HK is pretty much a troon with his main pronoun being It or They
you are retarded if you think HK is better

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>>722316306

>>722316306
It's a mass of black monster liquid inhabiting a dead baby.

>>722316235
This, very much this
Hollow knight is challenging, silksong is exhausting/frustrating

Playing through both RN, OST the OG has SS beat hard
I like the idea of spelunking a buried dead kingdom more than ascending in a religious pilgrimage
The Knight does not speak, but I still like him more
The Last/Old Stag has way more personality than the braindead bell beast
No Quirrelbro to meet up with in random spots
No Zote to bully
No Hunter is a downside
OG currently winning

silksong has better movement but hollow knight is better in pretty much every other way

much more build variety, better paced and a better sense of progression and reward (and hollow knight already wasn't great in these aspects), a more cohesive world, better economy, better ost

Hollow Knight is a good game, Silksong is a great game. It's too cruel, too beautiful, too unique to be anything else.

>>722316794
>It's too cruel, too beautiful, too unique
reddit midwit drivel

>>722315623
Hollow Knight is a better experience in general, but compared to Silksong it seems unpolished.
Silksong has better combat, graphics and a better constructed world, but there are some really tiring mandatory sections (in particulat two long mob fights and two really bad boss runbacks) that can break a lot of people.
Music is comparable.
Personally I like Silksong a little bit more because I don't mind the difficulty spike (seriously, Ninja Gaiden and Sekiro were harder) and I'm actually patient with my games, because I wasn't raised on autosave cover shooters like some zoomer, who'd never be able to finish a NES game without crying.

>>722316547
>Silksong is exhausting
Tell me you never finished a NES game without telling me you never finished a NES game.
Finishing Super Mario Bros for the first time took me more time than seeing the true ending of Silksong.

>>722316854
>(seriously, Ninja Gaiden and Sekiro were harder)
It's not the difficulty that people complain about.

I went straight from HK to Silksong and I can't get used to Hornet's diagonal downward-slash. It feels like a change mad for the sake of change compared to HK's simple pogo attack.

>>722316990
>Super Mario Bros
>Exhausting
brother, mario can only sprint and jump in that game. Theres not a bunch of mechanics you need to string together just to get through an area.
sure, its fun to have all those traversal options but when you need to engage with 100% of it the entire time, it becomes very draining.

>>722315623
HK has a better story and world design (not individual level design). SS is better in everything else besides music which is comparable.

>>722317118
Give it a chance. It allows for some insane angles of attack, especially against larger enemies. And it looks great.

I don't think I'll be replaying Silksong nearly as often as I did with Hollow Knight. It does some things better, but the overall experience is a harder pill to swallow.

Playing now, I'm at moorwing, honestly it's giving me Elden ring vibes. It's just a slog. It's no longer about what cool or interesting encounter will I have next, it's about how can we make this as tedious or bullshit as possible. Kind of bummed that I can't refund it anymore.

>>722316306
That was retroactively changed for Troonsong, he's 100% male in Hollow Knight

>>722316095
You know, it's odd, I feel like I did enjoy the story in Hollow Knight more but mainly just because it was more easily digestible with readily available answers to most questions you might have. Like as long as you talk to the seer a fair bit and don't ignore npcs, you learn basically everything there is to know about Hallownest's history. In Silksong I feel like I never got concrete answers on what the deal was with weavers, why they feuded with Grandmother Silk and why they can't breed, how much of the citadel's cruelty came from GMS, the weavers or just the citizens themselves, and I have no real clue what the deal is with the ancient village at the summit or the primitive bugs living there. I never really felt like I got a solid grip on what actually happened in Pharloom to result in the horrendous state of it. Like who specifically was it that started surgically implanting silk into people? Whose fault is it that the Underworks is so cruel? GMS seems to have been asleep for most of it so while she may be the root cause, she's not the one who committed the atrocities.

Silksong has some great storytelling with it's world, like the pollution of Bilewater and the impoverished nature of the underworks, but I wanted to understand things more concretely.

Silkcuck had the gay prince and confirmed Hornet is a slut. I think I was happier not having played Silksong. It should have remained a meme.

Silksong feels like a fanmod made by people who had no idea what made the first game good.
All it has going for it is that it took 7 years.

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They both have things they do better/worse than each other.
Overall I give the edge to silksong. It had higher highs for me in terms of fights and the soundtrack, and the gameplay just feels so much better as soon as you get the sprint ability.
My favorite part of the OG game is when you get the mantis claws and the game opens up considerably. Going on that tram and realising it takes you to not one but two new locations and just getting completely lost in the world is something Silksong just didn't capture.

Silksong is a better game but hollow knight has a better atmosphere

>>722315623
Silksong is better in literally every way.

>>722319746
Really? Because for me arriving at the citadel, and realizing there's a second metroidvannia inside your metroidvannia was pretty freaking impressive to me

>>722315623
Wokesnog is a girlboss simulator
Funko Knight is a game for when the bull is plowing your wife
Both are 5000% pure reddit

>>722320063
I mean its still good, like I said Silksong gets the edge for me. But so much of act 2 is contained in Choral Chambers and arguably Mount Fay. Then there are a couple of smaller areas like with Clockwork Core, and thats kinda it. Act 1 had so much more diversity to its areas. And because OG didn't split its areas into acts like this, the world was able to branch out and open up much more organically and it never felt like you ran out of new areas to explore.

>>722315623
Silksong is the better game, but Hollow Knight had a more compelling story. That's basically it. The movement, bosses, enemy variety, NPCs, inclusion of crests and tools for further customisation, the art, the visual storytelling and theming of locations, everything except the actual story itself. I'd say the music is tied but I'll have to replay Hollow Knight to be sure, Silksong has a great soundtrack though.

The only things hollow knight do better are tied to it's dlcs, put a godhome and a few new things to silksong and it's a 1000-0.
One detail I'm particularly happy about is that they did not put again a completely retarded insane i-frame during the dash, it's one of the 10 small things that make silksong movemenst feel so much better.

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>>722315623
HK did everything better and i dont even like HK much.
>Music is easily better in HK, Silk has no memorable tracks
>Ending bosses are worlds better in HK and no Lace fucking blows and shouldnt have been reused at all and never should have been a final boss.
>Combat i give it to HK, simply because less is more. It had simple patterns and rythms and that was fun enough. SIlksong is just speed up and bloated and compensates by making every fight tedious shit.
>Ending thats not even a question HK easily
>Boss fights is HK again, Silksong has a large roster but pretty much all the bosses are stinkerand especially the final bosses are massive letdowns.
I dont get how faggots can pretend silksong is anything but a shitty dlc gone out of control. 7 years wasted on actual garbage. Once the recency bias is gone people will see it for what it is. Feels like dark souls 2 all over again.

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>>722320324
>t. an expert in all things reddit
Maybe you should go back there

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>>722320631
Meant Story and NPC instead of Ending on the 4th point.

>>722320324
I'm sorry you're so bad you can't even play these easy games
>>722315623
Silksong is better but hollow knight is more interesting

>>722320362
>and arguably Mount Fay
I just played through mount fay in like an hour and it seemed to just have a single NPC, the double jump, one tool & nothing else
wtf did I miss

>>722320063
I felt so overwhelmed when I started act 2 because there were like 5 areas I had to explore and the more I explored, the more areas I found that I had to explore before I finished any of them

>>722320631
>SIlksong is just speed up and bloated and compensates by making every fight tedious shit.
you're unironically shit at the game
silksong fights allow you to be way more aggressive and play faster
Obviously if you play like a fucking bitch with all the movement options it'll feel slow

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>>722320879
nigger i dont give 2 shits how fast and agressive you can play when mobs are tedious hp sponges and often in groups that deal 2 contact damage that im forced to kill. Bosses itself are unmemorable and 90% easy with all the tools the game gives you, due to being able to just zerk thru em.

>>722320617
Oh yeah excuse me, one good thing about hk is the lack of some of the most stupid side quests like getting 10 pins or whatever, the score is 1000-1

>>722316990
nes games were hard but at least they were short

silksong is way too big, this idea that more is better is one of the worst things to have happend to vidya, I suspect it's amerimutt influence (like evola said they confuse bigness with greatness)

>>722315623
If you're good at games then silksong, if you're not than hollow knight
Silksong just has way more fun gameplay, so as long as you're not filtered by it then it's the clear winner

HK. Silksong has far too many "that part"s and I have no desire to ever play it again after 100%ing it

ori

HK feels like shit to play going back to kinosong, the only fags defending HK got hard filtered and are coping

>>722321819
I got silksong's true ending and I think hk is better, why are you a brown fromtranny?

>>722315623
Silksong is better in almost every single way but watch this shithole of autists and contrarians claim the opposite

>>722315623
whorenet's game is shit

>>722315623
Silksong massively improved on almost all mechanical aspects, has richer writing and more developed NPCs (to a surprising degree), and is larger in scope with much better production quality.
That said, I felt like its atmosphere was a bit too oppressive. Every moment of the game requires you to be engage and alert, HK had a much more chill atmosphere which I found myself missing while playing SS.

Can anyone explain why the fuck bosses literally teleport on top of me at lightspeed? Not only that, half the time they fly into the viewport at mach 10 out of nowhere. Garbage design. This game is hard mogged by rain world.

>>722322143
>Silksong massively improved on almost all mechanical aspects
movement yes, but honestly I don't think it improved the customization aspect, quite the contrary

>>722317887
I was feeling the same at that point. I thought it became a 10x better experience after I got the walljump, so probably stick with it until then at least.
>>722322249
I guess that's down to preference then. I thought that having dedicated slot types balanced the passives better, and the active tools gave me way more *good* options to use with more diverse use cases. In contrast the charms in hollow knight feel more flexible, but after having 100% played the game 3 times and watching a lot of other playthroughs, I started to realize that like half of the charms are just kinda garbage and in practice there's just a few builds and sets of super strong charms people end up using.
The combat, while not something I'd thought needed improving in HK if you asked me before, having played SS I can now see just how much more engaging and interesting it was.

>>722321525
Which parts are you referring to? I'm doing 100% but if I were to do a straight forward run to the first ending without doing any side quests, I dont think there would be many tedious things to do. Maybe collecting those needles to make the drifters cloak, but that takes less than five minutes?

This sister splinter fight is one of the most uninspired bosses I've ever beaten.

>>722322679
Everything I'm thinking of is either in Act 3 or is required to access Act 3 so if I just called it quits early it probably would be fine

>>722323748
I would agree with you then. I'll probably have a go at doing the sub 5 hour 1st ending if I replay it any time soon. Maybe I'd do a couple unnecessary fights like First Sinner if I have enough time.

>>722322249
Being able to fully change your basic attacks, healing ability and secondary attacks (which in HK were just spells, now there's also tools) is much more build variety than in HK.

>>722315623
Hollow Knight, obviously. Silk Song is a 6/10 that makes people scared to call it a 6/10 because they don't want to be called a shitter.

>>722326001
This
You can look at this very thread where Silksisters go to answer about their mid game is "bro...you just suck at games bro". Nah nigga your game is just a total step down in game design, music, allure of the world, atmosphere, quest design, memorable boss fights, etc. etc.

>>722322143
>That said, I felt like its atmosphere was a bit too oppressive. Every moment of the game requires you to be engage and alert,

I'm casually playing through Silksong where I found Bilewater and Wormways, but this is exactly my issue with exploring the world. Christ man, I don't want to constantly be vigilantly alert to traps or monsters popping out of nowhere. It's draining. I just finished dying 20 minutes ago in Sinner's Road where I slowly navigated to the bottom of the map next to Bilewater's entrance, entered some area with 2 lives left and parasites and fell to two roachgators or whatever they're called. Just getting to the bottom you had to be extremely cautious not to touch any traps, and not fall into a the water and you had very low visibility.

And the low visibilty areas are claustrophobic and stifling. It's nice time to time but it feels like the norm now.

>>722321903
didn’t ask also you’re trans, brown, and got filtered

>>722327179
I mean it makes sense in horrible shithole places like sinner's road and bilewater but the problem is they put tight corridors with terrible visibility and gocha traps everywhere, in the citadel, in the starting areas, in sands of karak etc

it contributes to the bad feeling of progression the game has, even when you have all of your movement options unlocked you still have to slow down to a crawl when navigating certain parts of the map when searching for mask shards or spool fragments, it's annoying

>>722315623
Replaying HK only reminded me how mid I thought it was and discouraged me from playing Silk Song.

>>722327406
filtered shitter

>>722317201
This is where I stand as well. Areas like the Sands of Karak or Verdania fall short of the character of areas like Deepnest or The Hive. Regions like Moss Grotto, Hunter's March, and Far Fields all kinda blend together, whereas even rocky areas similar to the Crossroads in Hollow Knight were a lot more visually distinct (I'd almost be inclined to lump in Shellwood too, as it didn't leave nearly as good of an impression as the Queen's Gardens). Places like Deep Docks also feel kinda wasted, like it's not brought up enough that Pharloom is tapping into lava, and instead it's as brushed to the side as Crystal Peak despite tying into the endgame.

There's also the fact that the world feels kinda emptier and dead despite the Haunting kinda being less apocalyptic than the Radiance's infection. Pharloom in general has less survivors, but especially in the Citadel compared to the City of Tears (you don't get anything like Eternal Emilita), and analogous areas like the Whispering Vaults don't really feel like they stack up to the Soul Sanctum. Bone Bottom is emptier and gets fewer NPCs than Dirtmouth despite Pharloom ostensibly being a destination for pilgrims. The Bell Beast is just flat out less integrated into the world than the Last Stag, even without the Last Stag benefiting from dialgoue. Bellhart ends up feeling a bit contrived, just tossing all the NPCs that used to be scattered in Hallownest into the same place.

I could go on, but Hollow Knight really just feels like a much better world. It's just that Silksong is far better in everything else.

>>722320631
>It had simple patterns and rythms and that was fun enough. SIlksong is just speed up and bloated and compensates by making every fight tedious shit.
>>722321068
>mobs are tedious hp sponges and often in groups that deal 2 contact damage that im forced to kill
You are bad at video games and you should feel bad

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>>722319746
Fucking hell, is this a bot post? It's creepy as shit.

>>722317118
There are things to swap movesets that you get as you go along

>>722320631
I dunno. Pure Vessel seems harder than anything I did in Silksong right now.

>>722326001
You know it's true because they didn't immediately jump this post

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silksong.
>but no!! silksong's fundamental flawed actually
>and here's a list to outed myself as a low IQ
>such as difficulty understanding complex or abstract concepts
>a lack of curiosity and interest in learning
>poor problem-solving skills, and a limited ability to adapt to new situations or information
yeah, that fits

>>722330482
Yes. Most of this thread is fake. You'll learn to spot the skinwalkers and ignore them after a while.

>>722328493
brown subhuman rollslopper

>>722315623
>One has Zote The Mighty
>The other doesn't
It's obvious

>>722315623
Silksong was a great sequel and I liked it better, but HK was a more complete package.

>Every single person I've talked to has done things/areas in different orders

I think Skong's level design is really good honestly. The map is surprisingly flexible and you can get to a lot of areas later/earlier than expected depending on your exploration.

>>722330814
>t. browntranny filtered shittertroony

>>722326001
We're reaching a point where "git gud" is just used to excuse bad design. It's funny that most of /v/ defends Silksong for the same shit that's hated about DS2.

>>722331987
>le bad designerino
FILTERED NIGGER COPE LMFAO

>>722326189
>memorable boss fights
I beat HK and don't remember a single boss despite remembering bosses from most other games
Take shovel knight for example. I can guarantee people remember boss fights from that game because they're actually distinct

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>>722315623
LMAO keep trying low IQ pajeet

>>722315623
I’ve played the first one to death and it has become boring. It’s more comfy but Silksong might be more engaging. I’m too biased to really say.

>>722315623
Silksong has the potential to be way better than Hollow Knight but TC fell for the YDBTG brainrot and designed it with the philosophy that if you're having fun the game is too easy. When the game gets it's head out of its own ass and allows itself to be fun, like fighting First Sinner, it's way more fun than Hollow Knight. But ultimately I think Hollow Knight is better just because it was made in a less brainrotted era.

>>722330680
If HK's post-endgame bosses like NKG and PV were plopped in the middle of Skong they'd take like 5-10 attempts for most people.

>>722332427
>if you're having fun the game is too easy.
At almost no point during silksong have I not been having fun
The only time I can think of is the quest where you have to collect silver bells
I have no idea what the fuck they were thinking with that quest
I suppose it only exists as a hint to the underground tunnels, but why couldn't the hint have been something else

>>722331987
DS2 hate was always shitters trying to yell louder than everyone else, and I'm glad opinion is starting to shift to realize this.

>>722315623
Silksong is the Dark Souls 2 of Hollow Knight

>>722332575
There's no way you can tell me you actually had fun doing bosses like fighting Bell Eater or slogging through encounters like the Choral Chambers climbing rooms pre-clawline. Or that you were having fun in the Deeper Docks segment where you're under fire from mortarfaggots in locations chosen specifically to troll you. I literally have the 100% trophy and can post my completion screen as verification. But it is an undeniable truth that the game was designed from the ground up to troll you as hard as possible, and as someone who bought the game to unironically have fun with it, I did not appreciate the constant ragebait.

>>722332427
Silksong gives you an assfuck of options to have fun and make things easier, the YDBTG mentality is entirely you projecting.

Silksong is better.
It gives you a range of abilities that let you solve a wide set of fights.
Harpoon is for airborn enemies, or ones that over some distance from you.
Charge attack abuses foes that are skittish and will teleport if they're too close you before their attack.
It also got rid of the iframes on the dash, which was extremely abusable and doesn't have spammable magic skill that makes you invincible with no pre-rec (descending dark).
Insted you have 2 silk skills that require using them well and can't be spammed the way descending dark and dash could be.
The only downside is that the tool system feels like sanctioned cheating to beat bosses you can't outskill.

>>722332723
Dark Souls 2 is an incredibly awful game.

>>722332723
DS2 is still widely hated, all that changed is all the kids who played it as their first ever Soulslike when they were 12 are now nearing their 30s and are filled with nostalgia. The Zelda cycle is extremely real.

>>722332837
Choral Chambers was fun as fuck even without clawline, the fuck are you smoking?

>>722332943
I started with Dark Souls 1 but 2 and bloodborne are easily my favorite souls games. My least favorite is demon's souls followed by Dark Souls 3.

>>722332843
Despite all the many options it gives you, half of them are wedged deeply in Act 2 after you've already been slogging through it for 20 hours, and the other half are mostly still worse than a charmless Knight.
One of Silksong's biggest problems is you still have to wait until the same ~25/50/75% story completion breakpoints from the first game to unlock major upgrades, but since Silksong is about 4x longer than the first game, in absolute terms you're stuck for 4x as long without them. Team Cherry really looked at the "the first hour or two of Hollow Knight are kind of lame because you're kind of dogshit before you unlock your abilities" and said "you're wrong that's based and we're gonna make you go 4x as long in that state." Which is really emblematic of how they made the entire game desu.

>>722315623
SS is a better game mechanically, but I had way more fun playing HK. SS is the embodiment of quantity over quality: scrap many bosses (that spam 1 attack) and many useless zones and it'd be a good start.
Music is a good example of this. It's good for both games, but SS has almost no memorable songs.

So HK is the better game.

>>722315623
first game is an actual game with a proper progression system for one
the second one feels like some shitty dlc with pantheon levels of difficulty
its just a less enjoyable experience overall

>>722332976
>Bellboy hovers at the very top of the screen where you can't hit him with anything and chucks shit in your face until you climb up to the very top where he is
>The platforming itself would be trivially easy without this fag bodyblocking you in a way you mechanically have no good way of dealing with
Incredibly insufferably annoying. I literally would rather they just have the platforming be easier if this kind of gay shit is all they could think of to make it hard.

>>722318613
It was the weavers when they rebuilt the citadel to keep granny asleep. Multiple npcs mention that spiders are antisocial niggers who will always attempt to dominate and exploit even each other.

>>722315623
The first one is better mostly because Silksong is bloated. Fetch quests and dozens of small gauntlets that add nothing to the game.

The exploration in the sequel also felt less satisfying. You find a hidden or hard-to-reach spot and your prize is a fucking Materium entry or goddamn Frayed Rosaries.

>>722315892
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyC_2nGU-f8

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>>722315623
Hollow Knight:
>lame basic enemies and movement options
>balanced difficulty curve allowing ample recovery from mistakes
>exploration rewarded mostly with equipment and power ups
>palpable character progresion with each new upgrade
>the charm system is flexible in customization options
>very little to no item farming with runback frustration kept to a minimum
>gameplay encourage gitgud mentality rewarding players with the use of mechanics to mitigate difficulty
>tests and refines your skills
>show don't tell style story telling to be deduced by player
>each area is almost entierly unique visually
Silk Song:
>higly improved enemies variety and optimized movement options
>tedious difficulty due to razor thin margin for error
>exploration often rewarded with one time stack of farmable resources
>negligible character progrecion until later half of the game
>the crest system is stiff in customization options
>ample item farming and frustrating runbacks through out the whole game
>gameplay enforces gitgud performance by punishing players who use mechanics to mitigate difficulty
>test and erodes your patience
>dialogue driven story laid out for the player
>many areas seem like mishmashes of several previous areas mixed toghether

Hollow Knight did it way better, no contest
Silk Song did improve in many aspects over the original but the core ones that turned HK into it's own subgenere that every other indy studio has been ripping ever since where botched in the sequel

>>722332837
>Bell water
Haven't gotten there yet, I'm taking my time with games nowadays, I'm like 23h in
> slogging through encounters like the Choral Chambers
I fucking loved choral chambers, it's a great area

why must everything be a competition with you people?

>>722320879
Silk Song increases the difficulty by buffing up numbers
most bosses have simple patterns and few attacks but are a slog becase they kill you in seconds while it takes whole minutes for you to bring them down and when they want to cranck up difficulty they just spawn minions with just as much HP bloat as them
everyone now a days is larping as le steel soul speedrunner trying to gaslight everyone into thinking that the white palace was everyone's favorite area and the only thing that could have inproved it (besides carrying the delicate flower through it) would have swarms of respawning damage sponge Primal Vespid waves in every room

>>722335226
You realize healing is also heavily buffed right? Most people could beat hollow knight by just face tanking everything, Silksong is clearly designed to stop people from doing that.

>>722315623
HK because it was WAY less frustrating.

>>722334776
HKfags are trying to create a narrative where they didn’t get filtered by SS and it’s actually bad game design and le slog and the progression is worse or whatever other cope they can come up with

>>722335856
funny i greatly enjoyed HK and hwat little i have played of silk song since i decided not to play it until i bought it i enjoyed even though i took 3 tires beating bell beast

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>>722315623
scroll through the thread expecting to find either retards complaining about getting lost in a metriodvania without a map and compas or hype train shills deflecting all criticism with "le skill issue" post while larping as "hrrrrdddkkrrrr ggggmmmmrrrrrsss"

But instead i find that almost everyone is unanimously agreeing the 1st game is way better while everyone supporting the sequel still does so with many reservations or simply refusing to delve with any deep into how many mechanical changes constitue an improvement

It gives me hope for this site

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>>722335856
why would u need to create a narrative of something that is already true? Has been the narrative since day 1 of release.

>>722335998
here’s oneof the coping faggots now!

>>722335973
The problem is the first game is worse in almost every single way.

>>722335973
filtered nigger

>>722335856
>Ask a HKfag to elaborate
>get a laundry list of reasons
>Ask a SSfag to elaborate
>"hurrdurr skill issue gitgud cope seethe lmao"
i can clearly tell which side is more invested in talking about the game just as easy as i can tell wich of the 2 games will continue to be ripped off as the founding father of it's own sub genere

>>722315623
HK
Music
Lore
Colosseum

Silksong
Bosses
Exploration
Characters
Gameplay

Silksong is the better game, but it has ancillary elements that are weaker than hk. The core gameplay of silksong is strictly superior.

>>722317118
It's best used right after a dash attack. But give it a little vit of time and you'll get the spacing figured out

Hollow Knight has a more interesting setting/lore/atmosphere, but gameplay wise Silksong is better. Hornet's mobility makes her feel great to control in both combat and platforming sections.
>b-but silksong is too hard!
skill issue

silksong does basically everything better. It fixes the egregious issues with upgrades/difficulty, hornet's moveset is deeper and the enemies/bosses actually put up a fight.
I actually struggle to come up with things that I like better about the first game. Maybe the charm system, since you can have more of them equipped. But that's part of what caused the difficulty issues in the first place.
The biggest improvement might be the levels in terms of arena design and platforming. Hornet's better mobility adds some genuine variety there. They also weren't afraid to make the platforming actually challenging this time, which was nice.

Also, silksong's NPCs are much livelier because hornet actually talks to them, easily the biggest improvement over the first game. silent protagonists are a bad trope

>>722317118
if it helps you ca activate it while holding the stick in the direction she pogos instead of down

>>722336348
>laundrylist of copes*
I don’t need to type up a reddit paragraph of cope because I’m actually good at the game and it’s mogs HK in every way, HK has a couple visually nicer areas but that’s about it. After getting the dash in SS it’s basically over for HKfags

>>722336348
A laundry list of reasons that almost all boil down to the game was easier.

The only real thing I can give HK is that the lack of story can be more appealing.

>>722336575
Silent protags are kino, actually.

>>722315623
Silksong is way better. Hollow Knight is a boring underwhelming slog

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First game is better

silksong has made me wonder how many game hate campaigns where waged by someone who got filtered by a game

>>722336575
>bosses put up a fight
stopped reading there, holy shit what a bad take

>>722336627
yeah until you realize how retarded it is that every person you come across just starts spilling exposition for literally no reason. It's bad writing

>>722336704
it also makes me wonder how many faggots like you can't handle game criticism

>>722336704
That and popularity, I’d love to shit on another indieslop but SS was legitimately a good game unlike most of the games that get shipped here

the ones saying silksong's bosses are better are the same retards that probably complained about savage beastfly being so fucking hard when in reality every silksong boss is a damn easyass snoozefest

>>722336769
criticism is one thing making sure no discussion can ever be had about a game is something entirely different

>>722336741
In my experience most of them spilled their own thoughts, what they think of our character, bullshit about what they do or are aiming to do. Much more interesting than my character speaking, imo.

>>722336729
you can literally facetank most bosses in hollow knight with enough upgrades. I did this by accident with the watcher knights, who are one of my favorite fights after getting to fight them properly. A lot of the bosses are also too slow and basically just sit there letting you hit them.

>>722336812
shilled*

People who are bad at video games like HK better. It's always been normieslop

>>722336575
What I didn't like about HK was the lack of bosses and how many of them felt underwhelming. Not so much in the challenge sense but I'll give you an example that stuck with me, that's going to the Weaver nest in HK, it's this huge affair and one of your plot mcguffins is there and when you finally get there there is no cool boss, the only boss in that region is the minor boss fight with the Mimic. Silksong does so much better with bosses, better themed bosses, bosses with monsters that aren't just dude in armor, etc.

>>722336864
what does the make hk bosses?

>>722336941
im bad at video games and i like silksong better
remember bell beast took me three tries

>>722336348
Because their main criticism is a non issue. How can we relate to people bitching about how "frustrating" the game is to play with its "runbacks" when we never have to do the runback because we don't die and keep progressing? It's a legitimate skill issue which changes the experience. Shitters arduously repeat sections 20+ times while anyone with just a modicum of skill did it once or maybe twice and passed through.

I'm not even a fucking hardcore hk vet. I booted up my hk save and threw 45 min at NKG to finally say I beat him the day before Silksong, but I obviously never completed Godhome. My blind silksong playthrough felt amazing. I never got stuck on a section but the game did feel challenging. I don't think there is anything in base game silksong as hard as pantheon 5 imo.

>>722315623
hollow knight easily

>>722336864
No, the Silksong bosses are just generally better designed. I had to actually try for a few of them while HK all bosses were first tries.

>>722336864
but hk bosses are easier across the board, with exception of the radiance and DLC bosses.

>>722337046
>legit worst design choices
>non issues
fuck off

>>722336204
in graphics, character movement and enemy design it undoubtledy is
in difficulty curve, exploration, narrative, music, setting, athmosphere, and general mechanics the original completly BTFOs the sequel
>>722336317
only thing that got filtered was my enjoyment
learnign patterns was easy, repeating the dodge and chip dance for minutes with every boss is tiring
>inb4 muh spells
they are to mediocre to offset the risk of loosing a heal when a sinlge mistake can cost you the attempt
>inb4 muh tools
they are crutch the game discourages from using with shard farming as punishment for failure, so i just focused on gittingud with nail only as the game intends me to

>>722331109
>Not using his full title
Recite the 57 precepts 10,000 times as penance.

>>722337131
the worst design choices in question: things that force you to actually learn the game

>>722337131
>nooo i have to actually try this game suuuucks!!!!

>>722336969
This exact thing is such a disappointment every time I play this shit game. Deepnest is such a big atmospheric build up, you build up a huge load going there, and then you get there and there's zero boss and it's like being denied cumming. Then they lump 20 faggot bosses in the faggot gauntlets. Shitty ass game.

>>722337124
Ironically Radiance is the only boss in HK I really liked.

>>722333287
Bro? Your triple throwing knives?

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>>722336704
>>722336873
>>722336812
Nigger the only ones killing discussions are the faggy fanboys replying to all with filtered, despite the game obviously being terribly designed. We back to dark souls 2 arguments and cope. I hate brand cultists that just defend turds cuz its part of a brand or worship mediocre stuff to high heavens.

this feels a lot like people who swear up and down doom 2016 is better than doom eternal despite doon eternal basically eclipsing 2016

>>722337131
List one "legit" bad design choice that isn't "the game is hard."

>>722337000
that’s not too bad if you’re learning his patterns, most people are getting filtered by later stuff though
>>722337167
>only thing that got filtered was my enjoyment
filtered nigger cope

>>722337339
nah HK is better, cope

>>722337339
Old good new bad: zoomer edition

>>722337350
to be honest the second time was cause i got cocky infact thats most of the time i get hit or lose cause i get cocky

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I enjoyed both games.

so judging by these threads, I can make a platformer with 50% of the enemies being annoying shit flying enemies and bad bosses and gauntlets and people will still call it good, got it

>>722337284
I hate triple throwing knives because of how universally useful they are for most of the game. There's a huge segment of the game where you get a new tool and it's like "wow this is cool but it's not as useful as the knives...". Luckily a lot of late game tools are fun and make up for it.

>>722337464
Answer the question >>722337343

>>722337464
Can you explain what makes half the bosses bad?

>>722336578
I dont understand

>>722337464
lol you're bad

>>722337464
the only annoying shit enemies are ones that are only there to be annoying everything in silksong can pose a real threat if you are not careful

>>722337309
but all of your criticism boils down to you being filtered and it’s not even subtle, your choice of image is a dead giveaway what kind of faggot you actually are

>>722337464
>annoying shit flying enemies
it's funny how people say things like this and don't realize how much it exposes their skill issue. the game gives you tools to deal with flying enemies, multiple of them.

>>722337546
instead of holding the stick down hold the stick in the angle she pogos in

>>722337464
and here we have completed the filtered shitter cope cycle

>>722337537
they forced him to actually learn the moveset instead of just being handed the win :(

>>722337674
oh my god team cherry are such hacks #fuckSilksong #woke #soulsSlop

>>722337635
>stick
I think I understand why everyone is so shit at the game now

>>722337613
Jump
Down B

>Flying enemy furiously swipes at the air below you in vain as their health depletes.

>>722336597
>t. i pretend online that i can play like the tas speedruns i watch on youtube
>>722336607
they boil down to "the game was more rewarding" silk song does not rewards nearly as much as it punishes
and do not try to pretend you do not miss the Geo bukakes when you beat a boss or feel dissapointment when you find a secret room with nothing but rosaries hidden inside
>>722337046
stop justifying shitty design choices that not even Fromsoft shills bother deffending anymore
and do keep telling me about how you speedran the path of pain while carrying the delicate flower, sounds totally believable

>>722337749
>playing with the dpad
im sure similar works with the dpad as well

>>722337763
retard

>>722337807
now the filtered nigger is just making shit up kek

>>722337763
Bonus points for the mosquitos in the duct that dodge backwards in the air making you sweat only for them to dodge into the barnacles. Most satisfying feeling in the world.

>>722315623
>gauntlet before the boss
>gauntlet is part of the boss
>gauntlet to get to the boss
>gauntlet to get to the key
>gauntlet after the key
>gauntlet to unlock the song

There was something to HK's simplicity that made it feel more like a reaction game rather than a 'kill the boss faster than it kills you' game.
Best DPS spell? Best attack type? Yeah, all of a sudden when did DPS matter in a Metroidvania? Hollow Knight was about keeping up vs the pattern thrown at you. You got punished if you messed up that pattern.
EVERY attack in Silksong felt like an assblast of things being thrown at you, combo'ing you into a death, especially towards the end. Random defends and parry's that stall out bosses, looking at Skarrsinger especially.

>>722337807
>silk song does not rewards nearly as much as it punishes
lol seriously? this is the level of criticism? "waah the game didn't pat me on the back and tell me good job"

>>722337343
i did list plenty of shitty design decitions right here >>722334227
do notice how not a single shill bothered to reply with muh skill issue hurrdurr filtered, gitgud or any other of the reddit buzzwords they like to spam so much

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all this talk of flying enemies makes me less surprised why people used to hate this guy they never learned to dodge his attacks just face tanked them

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>>722337464
Only if the previous games lucked out on cultivated crazy fanboys over years that will defend/deflect anything negative. DS2, TLOU2 are the most obvious games were it happened. Normies dont care about quality, they just care about hype and brand.

>>722337537
having 1-2 attacks only. Quanitity over quality didnt work for DS2 either and it has the worst boss roster by far. Would even call all the bosses bad in that one just like here..

>>722337907
exactly why nobody takes you retards seriously, can't handle any kind of conversation that isn't blind praise
eat a bullet faggot

>>722338010
>decitions
HKsisters…

>>722338003
lol ur bad

>>722338029
DS3 had the worst boss roster and gameplay and story and aesthetics thoughbeit

>>722338003
>EVERY attack in Silksong felt like an assblast of things being thrown at you
the bosses are structured identically to the first game, they're just better. what does this even mean?
>Random defends and parry's that stall out bosses
the boss fights last like two minutes each, wtf are you on about

>>722338029
No boss has 1-2 attacks in Silksong.

I want to have sex with Hornet.

>>722338038
Everyone takes me seriously and they all laugh at you except when you samefag in your little echo chamber

>>722315623
Silksong is better in practically every way. only spot HK has in my heart are a few more memorable NPCs like Zote, Hornet was more compelling as a rival than Silk, etc.

nobody will gives a shit long term about silksong like they did HK, simply an inferior game in everything but combat

>>722338009
>gitgud in HK so you do not need the heal
Cool now i have access to the spell mechanic that considerably speeds up the fight and clears mooks from the screen, i am encouraged to play better to engage with these mechanics
>gitgud in SS so you do not need the heal
Finally i can now use tools and spells to mildly speed up slog fights without being punished with item farming or the lost of an emergency heal
first game entices you with a carrot
second game threatens you with a stick

>>722315623
I played hollow knight for the first time after silksong came out and then silksong right after and silksong blows it out of the water. It's 10x more annoying but hornet is so much more fun to control

>>722338498
Sounds like you're bad, anon....

>>722315623
Hollow Knight is an 8/10
Silksong is a 7/10
It's been 7 years but they decided to not only double down on all the problems HK already had, they exasperated most of them
The improvements don't make up for the many, many disappointments.

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>>722338080
BEHOLD
the pinacle of Silk Song Shill arguments
SSS

>>722338667
can you outline what problems HK had and how SS made them worse?

>>722336679
she takes more damage but also heals more, it balances out

>>722315623
Whenever I beat a boss in Silksong my reaction was mostly just “damn that was a pain in the ass” instead of joy of overcoming an obstacle

>>722338713
he is gonna say double damage

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>>722338702
>pinacle

>>722338116
>structured identically
>they're just better (doesn't elaborate what "better" means)

Hollow Knight's bosses were essentially 1 attack thrown at you at a time at varying speeds. When you consider Pure Vessel, NKG, and Absolute Radiance, they are all absolutely on a different speed than any lategame boss in Silksong. NKG and Pure Vessel are an amazing example of 1 attack coming at a time at a super fast speed.

Compare Pure Vessel to Lost Lace.
There is no overlapping attack during any of PV's attacks. The smack-down flame vent is given time to finish its animation before PV does a different attack, probably his hit-hit-hit one, or his charge+explosions one.
Lost Lace? Going into Phase 2, She can spawn tentacle towers that pause all horizontal movement, giving you only space to jump, during any of her other random attacks, namely the jump+circlespin which is being blocked by the tentacle because you can't see that shit. She can spawn the orbs that shoot, then follow into her triple-charge before the orbs even finish. On top of that, everything is colored in a fucking black on black to make sure you can't see Lace pop out of a tentacle tower. It's a horribly choreographed fight. The only attack that's actually given fucking time to finish before she starts some other bullshit is the void waves.

>>722338531
Idk man I like the simplicity of HKs moves. The Colosseum really put you to the test when it went no floors. That said the crests are cool and I wish shaman was available earlier. What a shame

>>722338713
>>722337516
More people keep asking for list of problems with Silk Song and i keep reposting this >>722334227 yet the only shill could muster a reply was a grammar nazi
strip your replies from buzzwords like gitgud, skill issue or filtered, and all you are left with are woke tier arguing tactics

>>722338878
If you could play as hornet during the Colosseum it would be easy, that's how good her movement is. Hell one of the bosses in act 3 has no floor

>>722338983
>gameplay enforces gitgud performance by punishing players who use mechanics to mitigate difficulty

cause you re not meant to do this and its the game designers job to make you play the way its intended

>>722315623
hollow knight by far.

>>722338010
>tedious difficulty due to razor thin margin for error
>ample item farming and frustrating runbacks through out the whole game
>gameplay enforces gitgud performance by punishing players who use mechanics to mitigate difficulty
>test and erodes your patience
All of these are "the game is hard." You're like a high school kid tyring to repeat the same point multiple times using as many thesaurus words as possible to make the word requirement on an essay.
>exploration often rewarded with one time stack of farmable resources
>negligible character progrecion until later half of the game
>the crest system is stiff in customization options
>dialogue driven story laid out for the player
None of these are bad design decisions, they're just a different direction to keep the game from being a boring clone of HK. Half of those are "the game is hard" too.
>many areas seem like mishmashes of several previous areas mixed toghether
This isn't an argument.

>>722317887
Like >>722322658 said the game becomes 10x better after you get the pin upgrade and things die in a reasonable amount of time. However, at that point everything does 2 to 3 damage to compensate. The game is just bs for the sake of bs.

>>722339040
Yeah but that one just goes back and forth and shoots slowly, it was a nothing boss for me. The Colosseum had multiple mobs on your ass with projectiles and melee. I'm sure it would be tons of fun with Hornets moves too.

>>722339040
>Zote shows up
>does double damage to Hornet on contact
>does twice as much with every attack
>takes at least half an hour of constant DPS before going down
>phase 2 starts
>it's the same, but with a larger hitbox, bloated HP and exploding minions spawning all over the arena frame locking by pure rng

>now people whine about contact damage like that wasn't a staple of 90% of HK

>>722338713
Lack of info given to the play that is strictly gameplay related, for example, damage numbers
It takes an excessive amount of trial and error to properly learn the exact numbers you're working with only using the mechanics and information they game offers you upfront, in HK this was already pretty bad
In Silksong it's turned up to eleven with all 57 tools and there being many more abilities
>It's an aesthetic choice to conceal this gameplay information from the player, it improves the immersion
Yes I agree, it is a deliberate choice made by the developers, but it's a choice that actively impedes the game.
Good games have toggles for things like this, for purists who don't want to see any numbers on their screens (and you don't even need to do that to convey information, more accurate item descriptions would simply work just fine if you're so committed to aesthetic purity)
The argument that this encourages more experimentation doesn't work because even if you experiment, you STILL can't actually get the real numbers, experimentation is actually discouraged with this design philosophy.
The second biggest problem is much more fundamental, the basic mechanics of how combat work in the game.
Take a look at what boss fights people enjoy, feel legitimately challenged by but also feel like they overcome with skill, and then look at the ones that seem to only fuel frustration
You will immediately notice a pattern, the best bosses are dynamic duels where you can take advantage of your movement in more freeing ways (phantom, lost sinner, dancers, lace)
The worst, most frustrating ones? Fat enemies that hurt you most of the time NOT via their attacks, but by reposition into you and dealing contact damage (beastfly, groal)
And this is exacerbated by how HK handles hitboxes, circular enemies almost always have rectangular hitboxes, making a disconnect between what the player sees and what's actually hitting them(you can see this if you play hk with hitbox only mods)

>>722339756
jesus christ this is cope of the highest order

>>722316794
>It's too cruel, too beautiful, too unique to be anything else
that's really gay

>>722339756
>reposition into you and dealing contact damage ... groal
Groal actively avoids the player most of the time, with the sole exception being hovering up to the ceiling if you're above him. So basically people are whining that they can't invalidate him with infinite pogos.

>>722339756
And to add onto the point about the types of bosses that cause frustration, the funny thing is that there's literally a boss in the game (in BOTH games actually) that solves that issue perfectly
GMS and Radiance have something in common that SHOULD have been replicated in more fights but for some reason it's only used twice
They are entirely without contact hitboxes, and are made all the better for it, it literally allows a further level of freedom not only for the player, but also for the way in which those fights can be designed
It's a huge missed opportunity that they didn't do this with more fights, instead you get things like the unraveled

>>722339241
>All of these are "the game is hard."
objectivelly incorrect statement as descriptions of bad game design with intentional time wasting mechanics have little correlation with hard difficulty beyond player frustration
You're repeating the same point multiple times
because it's the truth, what are you expecting me to change, it's so truth larping shills like you absolutelly refuse to engage with it unles pressured as i did
>None of these are bad design decisions
Yet another objectively false statement easily verifyable by anobody doing something you clearly haven't done which is to actually play the games instead of watching tas speedruns
>Half of those are "the game is hard" too
Translation: "hurrdurr skill issue gitgud filtered"
>This isn't an argument
it definetly is, especially when comparing both games

I had trouble deciding if you were a lying shill or larping retard, i can tell now you are clearly both

>>722340213
>objectivelly
I accept your concession.

>>722339965
>actively avoids the player most of the time
One of the hardest to avoid "attacks" he has is when he jumps back into the water
The fastest part of this not actually being the jump, but how he moves/repositions immediately before going into the jump animation (this movement is also high variable on where he is on the screen in relation to where he wants to jump)

>>722340062
>big spectacle robot boss early game to show off how far the games bosses have come
>air vents on the side to show that environment and upgrades you received will be major components to killing bosses now
>secret option of killing with the environmental rock if you're observant enough
>actually it's the only boss like this

>>722340213
>t. game too hard
ggnore

>>722338702
I accept yours >>722340259

>>722340062
GMS and Fourth Chorus are both piss easy because they have no contact damage, because it means the player can endlessly wail on them without punishment for bad positioning, as long as they avoid the regular attacks. Radiance is harder but only because Knight doesn't have anywhere near the amount of movement options Hornet does. Hornet has those options because contact damage is a punishment for failure to properly use those movement options. Without that punishment, the game becomes trivial.

>>722315623
Silksong plays better, Hollow Knight had a better atmosphere

>>722340416
are you sure about that decition?

>>722340328
Oh wow I actually completely forgot about the 4th chorus, but yes that's also a perfect example of what I'm talking about
A very fun fact that perfectly takes advantage of the movement abilities that game has offered to the player
But do we ever get something like that again?
No
Say hello to chef, broodmother, conchfly and beastfly 2
>Uhh those are shitter bosses i beat in 1 try
Ok, but did you ACTUALLY think they were good fights?

>>722340403
>t. gender studies level arguing tactics
mock and iggnore

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>>722321986
Where the fuck is it? Post the pasta so I can laugh & leave

Top 3 bosses are
1. Lace 2
2. Last Judge
3. Cogwork Dancers
This is the correct opinion.

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>>722315623

>iggnore
erm hollowbrowns…our response?

>>722336864
savage beastfly is actually kinda fun after the nerfs
it's a bit too easy now but pre-nerf the difficulty was basically only from it randomly turning around or stopping in the middle of a charge and bumping into you, now that they cleaned that up and made it more predictable it's a kinda neat if simple fight mostly about having clean movement while managing the ads and it's cool how you can get it to kill its own summons

>>722316152
>void god of gods
He is a selfmade god. Hornet is a jobber plain and simple

>>722315623
Hollow Knight
>better build variety
>better pogo
>better exploration and rewards
>better economy
>better magic system

Silksong
>better movement
>better characters
>better combat

>>722340473
They're easy but fun, they are clearly better designed boss fights than 50% of what the game offers
I would never care that a fight like lost sinner was easy or that a fight like bell eater was hard, I care that lost sinner is actually fucking fun and well designed and bell eater is a colossal waste of time
Are you evaluating how good a fight is by how many times it killed you? That's some retarded ass logic

>>722339756
Beastfly is a great fight. Groal is a mediocre fight. Unironically sister splinter would have been a good case for your point before they nerfed her into the ground because her wonky body when stunned can cause contact damage. Same critique applies to broodmother. But the king of your specific complaint is the unravelled. Fuck that boss.

>>722316990
>dude if you don't 100% SUPPORT THIS SLOG OF AN ASSFUCK then you HATE AMERICA!
7 years. 7 years of radio silence only to put out a sequel so disappointing that every Silksong thread is now 90% team cherry defense force sobbing and shitting themselves and screaming how you may never criticize this failure of a sequel. Team Cherry doubled the size of the world map, spread more distance between upgrades and slapped double damage on literally everything and then pretended their dogshit wasn't just tedious and boring.

Is Hollow Knight a better game if you get more empty space between areas and die in 1 hit? No? That's the problem with Silksong, just boring cruelty to walk through and the day to day gameplay isn't fun enough to justify it.

>>722340505
of kourse!
why wouldn't i axspet your admitzion to veing a retard dat lathces unto grammmar typos to konzeal de faqt u hab no counter argunemt?

>>722340920
meds and dilate

>>722340920
>radio silence
they did like a dozen interviews and showed off a ton of early progress and shit

>>722340941
my counter argument already destroyed your shitty excuse for an argument that was just "game too hard" and now you’re just babbling like a retard

Silksong is a 10 that ends up a 8. It starts off with such great promise and only kind of makes due on some of them. You think Hornet is a major part of the story and then as you play you realize she's just tangential to a bunch of random stuff happening. You get your first crest and you go "oh shit, im so excited for future movesets" and they all basically play the same. You see the first new zones and you expect a grand world but the areas don't really fit together that well and the Citadel isn't that impressive looking. While it's still a fantastic game, it never really wows me in the same way Hollow Knight did.

Hollow Knight however starts at 7 and ends up as a 9. Learning about Hallownest is much more engaging than with Pharloom. The sense of progression feels better and the bosses seem much more designed around the upgrades you get. Seeing Kingdom's Edge and The Abyss for the first time feels grand. Finding out the Blue Lake is leaking into the City of Tears gives a sense of world cohesion. Then you wrap it up as you finally slot yourself into the story when you find out about the other vessels with a much more satisfying final boss with The Radiance. It's a much more satisfying package.

>>722340591
>chef
Did not care for chef
>broodmother
Weirdly didn't mind them as much as chef despite being a similar fighting style
>beastfly
Love this guy. Both fights. Great boss.
>conch flys
First fight is forgettable tier. Second fight is very fun

Both are overrated trash, just like 99% of the indie-A slop on the market.

>>722316794
>Silksong is a great game. It's too cruel, too beautiful, too unique to be anything else.
Why does every single Redditor talk like this? Trying to come across as some intelligent, profound wise one while instead coming across as a glaringly obvious retard pseud.

>>722340717
I can control how how high i jump... this is... le bad...

>Honeymoon period is over
>/v/ hates the game now
Every time kek

>>722341298
It's too much for a Tiktok zoomer to contend with.

>>722315623
silksong has higher highs and lower lows

>>722341318
It’s the samefags that have been shitting on the game since release day but you already knew that

>>722341678
>only a few people hate this shitty indie game!
Whatever helps you cope, Silktranny.

>>722315623
I think hollow knight is too long 40hours

>>722340791
You played 20 minutes of Silksong

>>722341748
>immediate reply
kek

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>>722341898
Eat my shit, tranny.

>>722341958
what mods did mods did you use sis?

>>722342069
None, because I'm not a shitter like (You).
You probably also used Wanderer or Architect.

silksong should have been called silksong. the next game should be called something else, and main character be green themed.

>>722341958
Imagine playing a game for 62 hours and not learning it, couldn't be me.

>someone is better at a game than you
>immediately accuse them of cheating
Why does this happen so often?

>>722342143
>not learning it
I learned it just fine considering I beat all the bosses, got the secret mushroom ending, and didn't use the shitter Crests nor crutch on tools.
I'm better than you at the game and I don't think the game is perfect. I'm not sure why that makes you cry.

>>722341236
>Silksong is a 10 that ends up a 8
>Hollow Knight however starts at 7 and ends up as a 9
>much more satisfying final boss with The Radiance
nail on the head. Hollow Knight just has a better ending than Silksong and it's actually pretty rare for games to end well nowadays

>>722342097
sure ya did sissy ;)
>>722342195
is this the new cope you’re going with?
>>722342270
yup new shitter cope dropped

>>722342414
>absolutely nothing to say
I accept your concession. Try harder with your bait next time.

>>722315623
Hollow knight has generally better moments and characters, nothing in Silksong beats it's final boss sequence in kino
Silksong has better combat potential and movement

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>>722315623

>>722339756
>damage numbers
First line and you've already lost me

>>722342719
Numbers too hard for you, lil zoom zoom?

>>722342270
Sure, and you didn't even find the same pogo as Hollow Knight, meaning that "better pogo" is a nonaegument, nor the same or even more spells than Hollow Knight (which includes both silk arts and tools, since they have the same use cases), meaning that "better spells" is a nonargument.

>>722342785
Maybe world of warcraft is more your speed :)
they have big numbers that tell you have much damage you do and big flashing warning signs that tell you when you might get hurt!

>>722319746
>Going on that tram and realising it takes you to not one but two new locations and just getting completely lost in the world is something Silksong just didn't capture.
But what about the dark vents with a million exits leading to empty rooms and shard bundles?

I liked Slksong, but it just can't compete with HK.
The biggest problem with Silksong's story is that I just don't give a shit about what's going on with Pharloom the same way I did Hallownest. The infection was everpresent, visceral, and easy to connect to most of the shit going on and how the kingdom around you fell, while all the haunting, weaver and silk bondage mommy shit feels neat little background lore to hear while hanging out with the pilgrims.
>>722322143
I actually like how more oppressive and dangerous Silksong feels since it fits Hornet's more aggressive nature, but it gets pretty frustrating having to constantly be like "hey, this room looks awfully big, I hope there isn't- FUCK"

>>722342816
The downward pogo crests in Silksong do not have the same timing as the pogo in Hollow Knight, which you would know if you had ever played Hollow Knight. I went back to it after beating Silksong just to test the theory, and sure enough I'm right and you're wrong.
>more spells
Quality>quantity, retard zoomer. Soul system>silk system. Vengeful Soul and Howling Wraiths by themselves have more utility and blend more seamlessly with the combat system than anything in Silksong. Again, you would have to actually play Hollow Knight to know what you're talking about, as I have.
I'm just more knowledgeable than you, and also a more worthwhile person.

>we don't want to tell you which ending is canon
>but also in Silksong we're going to definitely tell you which ending of HK is canon ;)

>>722342459
>copetranny babble
ok?
>>722342785
I think the problem is you got got filtered and are looking for a cope

>Seven years and we still have no clue what happened between The Hollow Knight and Hornet in that Godhome cutscene

>>722339756
>damage numbers
All they had to do was say things like "this deals light damage" "this deals heavy damage".
>The second biggest problem is much more fundamental, the basic mechanics of how combat work in the game.
>The worst, most frustrating ones? Fat enemies that hurt you most of the time NOT via their attacks, but by reposition into you and dealing contact damage (beastfly, groal)
This is actually very annoying, yes. Especially when the controls are JUST shy of being responsive enough, so you often end up taking avoidable damage because of a dropped input or a slow jump ascent or something.

>>722343209
>This is actually very annoying, yes. Especially when the controls are JUST shy of being responsive enough, so you often end up taking avoidable damage because of a dropped input or a slow jump ascent or something.
No, that's called a skill issue on your part.

>>722343209
>dropped input
Shitter cope, you're just bad.

>>722343413
It’s insane they don’t get this

>>722343115
>>722343413
>>722343468
>>722343475
I want you to die, Soulstranny. I want you to put a gun in your mouth and kill yourself.

>play hk twice because it's challenging but fun and you have huge build variety
>drop silksong before moonwing because it's just annoying to play
Silksong was made by/for speedrunning no hit run trannies and it shows. Glad I didn't pay for it honesty

>>722343561
uh-oh filtered shitter meltdown

>>722315623
Silksong mogs Hollow Knight in so many ways, it's not even funny.
Hollow Knight was a top 5 Metroidvania. SS is easily top 1, by a fair margin.

>>722343570
Another shitter filtered :)

>>722315623
Silksong is way better

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>>722343561

>>722343609
>t. has played 3 Metroidvanias in his tranny life

>>722317118
It's really good in combat when you get the hang of it. For platforming it's really not great, but several other movesets have good alternatives you can switch to for tricky platforming sections.

>le...LE TRANNIES
Jesus Christ can you shut the fuck up

>>722343570
>t. filtered shitter
>>722343723
I think HK was good but wouldn’t call it one of the best metroidvanias definitely not too 3 but SS easily makes that list, it just feels too good to play

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>>722341093
>ypur counter argument was hurrdurr gitgud, skill issue, filtered and all those other words your larned in reddit to hide the fact that you think watching tas speedruns is the same as playing the game

things are not better if they are harder nor are they harder if they are more frustrating
a genuinelly good game rewards good play with punishment that never detracts from the enjoyment
SS has at least half the entire fanbase of the first game questioning design choices in the sequel and the only people deffending those choises are reddit shills parroting the same old buzzword and arguing like a gender studies graduate

>>722315623
v1 Silksong is better than v1 HK, but worse than Voidheart, gotta wait for dlc to see how it goes

>>722343634
>>722343848
Why did you reply twice, Soulstranny cocksucker/

>>722315623
solksing for sanicslop, gauntletslop and questslop
hollow manlet for dashslop, explorationslop and hiddenquestslop

>>722343609
what's the top 5?

>>722315623
left has the more badass design

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>OLD GOOD!!!!!!!!!!
>NEW BAD!!!!!!!!!!!

>>722343057
Out of curiousity what are the name of the "better pogo crests"?

You don't even need to answer that because your premise on its face is retarded. There is no "timing" to the pogo in hk because enemy movement makes that variable and charms make that variable. In the same vein crests also vary wildly. What the fuck are you even talking about?

I don't care about this comparison but what I find interesting is how people value novelty. One game invented 95% of things these two games are known for. Yet this aspect seemingly almost never gets honored. This is a general thing with sequels. People seemingly don't care about that one game was made from scratch, invented almost everything the series is known for. Same with Resident Evil 1 and 2. 2 is the same game almost. Maybe a bit better here and there. But people treat Resident Evil 2 like a masterpiece but the game that invented literally everything is just ok at best for people. For me it makes no sense.

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I feel like I can do more shit in Silksong mechanically so it automatically feels better to play. The OST is better, the world feels a bit more alive. HK gives you a very lonely feeling in a sad almost suffocating world, but has slightly higher peaks overall. Silksong feels a bit unfinished with the underwater/act 3 green area I forgot the name of. I feel like the regular bosses are higher quality in SS. Some areas and rooms just dont make any sense, its like they forgot to add something to them. Currently HK is still slightly better but im sure SS DLCs will change that.

>>722343468
>Shitter cope, you're just bad.
It does happen, but it's not the input itself dropping, it's having little lags on the end of some actions, or being hit, which means if you press the button a fraction of a second too fast the input won't come out. You can observe this in Hollow Knight; you put the map away and for a split second after the overlay disappears, he won't jump. But the input doesn't buffer either, it just doesn't happen, so you're just left wondering where the fuck your jump went.
Same thing with the floating in this. If you let go and press it again, Hornet will resume floating. But if you press it just half a second too soon, it won't come out at all, even if you're holding the button.
It's annoying, it's unresponsive, it's bad design. Games buffer commands for a reason, because it's not always visually clear when you can start inputting again.
And for me personally, I like to double tap buttons to avoid dropped inputs, but Silksong SPECIFICALLY trained me not to do that because all my jumps were turning into floats and fucking my velocity up. So now sometimes my jump just doesn't come out because I was reacting too fast to getting hit or something.
Not strictly a dropped input I guess, but shit design anyway.
>>722343475
You faggots never consider that it's you that doesn't understand.

>>722343634
>first game is pretty much medium difficulty for 90% of the game
>I expect the same level of difficulty from game number 2
>it's just way harder from the get go
how can you retarded terminally online virgins not see how this is a bad thing? It's like buying an AC game but getting ninja gaiden combat instead

>>722344060
>Reaper
>Wanderer
>Witch (sort of)
Architect, Hunter, and Beast all suck dick for pogoing, Shaman is generally useless outside of a specific charm setup.
>There is no "timing to the pogo in hk
Anon, I already knew you had never played Hollow Knight, you didn't have to just come out and say it like this.
You might be the stupidest person on 4chan right now. Do the world a favor and blow your brains out.

>>722344149
>this anon is arguing that buffered inputs are a good thing
Oh hell the fuck no. Stay filtered and please never get into a position where you influence game design. You and your ilk fucking ruined Elden Ring

>>722343723
Why does my opinion trigger you so much?
I think SS has a better movement, combat, story ( Hornet actually talking is way more interesting that knight) and more focused.
Hollow Knight is so obtuse that makes you running in circles until you find a hidden area that is where you are supposed to go. The linearity of SS is much better and, the best part, you can actually have multiple ways to your objective if you ignore the beaten path.
If the end game proves to be too hard, you can even have a build with health regen and almost limitless tools.

>>722344149
>>722344210
>shitter meltdown
Didn't even bother reading btw.

>>722343876
because they're mentally ill trannies. They gain some sort of small pleasure feeling superior (even though they've spent 500+ hours in the game)

>>722317118
you can get a crest that gives you HK's down attack (with attack speed comparable to the quick slash charm)
but by the time you get it you'll be used to the first two crests's down attack

>>722337339
But that's correct, I firmly disliked eternal whereas I quite enjoyed 2016.

>>722315623
Silksong and I don't see how can anyone think HK is better, I was surprised that they fixed HK main issues (even if they added some less important new ones).
HK just has very little location variety. Because the game has very little platforming, the few platforming gimmicks it has end up having little relevancy, as a result of that most locations feel mechanically (and often visually as well) samey and bland. Deepnest and Crystal peak are the only exclusions (not counting White Palace). SS actually fells like a proper platformer.
I can make a few other points, like game being smarter - not by a lot, but still, at least there are cases you need to think a little or actually listen what NPCs are saying. Or game not making most endgame challenges into optional dreamscape and out of the narrative.
The few downsides I can think of have some excuse:
1) Touch damage feels like a BIGGER issue. However, this is the result of movement being more fun.
2) Runbacks feels like a BIGGER issue. However, this is because later HK bosses feel like dumbed down versions of their dream counterparts and have no challenge. Though, I suppose SS also added runbacks to dreamscape.
3) Voiced protagonist. Not necessarily an issue - either way, she was voiced in HK, it would be weird if she suddenly went silent in SS.

>>722343876
>TWWOOOOO REPLIES!!!!1!1
seethe dilate cope
>>722344149
>You faggots never consider that it's you that doesn't understand
because I’m not a shitter copetard tranny?
hope this helped!

>>722344317
when did you last have sex

will pogotroons ever recover from getting irreparably raped?

>>722344257
>shaman is generally useless
Shaman is the easiest pogo crest in the game. I can't believe you got filtered by hunter crest pogo of all things.

My point with HK pogo is that enemy behavior matters which makes the timing variable. enemies that travel upwards with you will change the timing. There is no magical consistent timing, it's about spacing. But I don't know why I am even talking to someone filtered by hunter pogo.

>>722344281
Too much buffering is a problem too, sure. Elden Ring's problem is that it buffers some things and not others, so your attacks will get heavily buffered but your shield won't for example. So sometimes you'll do a dual input but only the one will come out. Shit sucks.
But some buffering is important. And I think, specifically HOLDING a button should allow you to float even if you pressed it a split second too early. Especially if pits are going to be filled with spikes.
>>722344317
>Didn't even bother reading btw.
Only one of those was me, and if you want to remain ignorant of game mechanics that's your loss, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously when you claim something doesn't happen and refuse to read the evidence that it does.

>>722344073
Hollow Knight invented an entire subgenere that spawned a multitude of ripoffs, and they did this within an already overcrowded genre

There is a reason why every single ripoff (or inspiration if you wanna be nicer) did not mess with the core heal/spell cost/benefit mechanic which is the cornerstone of the whole genre's difficulty curve

Eitherway, time and future ripoffs will be the final judges of wich game was better
if it was SS, then we will be seeing a lot double damage + infrequent heals in the future as well several new iterations of the crest/tools system
but my gut tells me everyone is just gonna stick to putting their own spin on the original game's blueprint

only time will tell

>>722337464
Yeah, if your art/atmosphere is good.

>>722344418
Wow anon, I'm really convinced that you know what you're talking about now.

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>Hollow Knight invented an entire subgenere

>>722344428
LONDON
O
N
D
O
N

>>722344654
glad you finally got it and I accept your concession

>>722344554
Fwiw I have never experienced a dropped input in silksong from animations. I never once felt like I was fighting the controls. In any game that has buffered inputs I feel like I am always fighting the controls.

>>722343057
>Vengeful Soul
There's like 10 different ways of firing a projectile
>Howling Wraiths
Thread Storm and Claw Mirror bind is that but better, Voltvessel is that but even higher

>>722344369
Hollow Knight
>make it to the first filter boss
>by that time you already posses several means of increasing your power output or accumulating soul
>only mildly tedious run back can be easily mitigated wtih one hidden wall and a couple of lever switches
Silk Song
>make it to the first filter boss
>nothing in your equipment can compare to things like mark of pride, shaman stone, soul catcher, (not sure if you could also get quick slash and quick focus too)
>you only start to get useful equipment from act 2 onwars and the closest things to the charms mentioned above all come with drawbacks

>>722344570
You have not acknowledged the point I made. But to reply to your point. I don't think a "more of the same" sequel was ever more influential than the original. How could it even be? No one in 10 years is going to say this game was influenced by Sliksong. They are going to say Hollow Knight every single time.

>>722345256
FILTERED SHITTER!!!!

>>722345086
Honestly, I've spent a good share of time complaining about buffered controls too, mostly because games like Elden Ring buffer an absurd amount. But I find it necessary if a game has delays before you can input again, and they're definitely there in Silksong. I wasn't having that problem at the start of the game, but I guess as I got more confident with the controls I started trying to go too fast.

>>722342719
I can't understand for the life of me why you think the game would be made worse if it happened to tell you, for example
>Silkspear does x3 nail damage
>Sharpdart does x2.5 nail damage
That's really a line too far for you?