How would you expect clover's friends to cope after the game of undartale yallow?
>>722441153No regrets on her end I'm sure
>>722441153Why do people want to discuss UT over UTY?The UT thread from across got replies in around a minute while this one struggles to get one every 30 mins.Why is a 10 year old game getting more replies than a 1 year old game?
Is there any reason why yumes (female) are obsessed with Starlo?
>>722443471kuz one is better at drawing out the autism out of people, obviously.That's all people run on: Autism or Anger.horny being their cousin
Martlet's pits do birds sweat?
>>722447840in game she does sweat
Do you think Ceroba watches anime? More importantly, does she engage in cosplay?
>>722443471because for some reason, some people only like discussing stuff if it is "official" even if sometimes fangames end up better than the official thing (seem more often with pokemon)(this isn't saying UTY is better than UT but it is one of the best fangames out there even if by default)
I've got a soft spot for the idea that it sinks it what they let a child do over some months, and starlo is probably the one who keeps them from falling into a pit over it since didn't he start doing the wild east gig in the first place to cheer people up? I will also hold on to post ut revival until I die.
>>722441153>How would you expect clover's friends to cope after the game of undartale yallow?Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEZZjYneQqQ
>>722441153I wouldn't. Shit just sucks with no redeeming qualities.
>>722441153>friends
>>722443471The fanbase for a fangame is naturally going to be smaller than one for the game its derived from.
>>722445891Yumes?
>>722449110She is cosplaying 24/7
>>722441153Status of the other soul fangames?
>>722451538naranja anon gave some pretty cool updates in the last discussion and I think a few devs said their projects would have something to look at here in the next few months
>>722443471There's generally more stuff to talk about with UT in terms of official content, even with its age, and the general lore and story makes it way easier for people to make AUs, which can add to discussion and basically kept UT alive until DR came out.
>>722445891Whatever obsession there is over Starlo, it's nothing compared to the fixation people have over Ceroba.
>>722451538Oldentale should have something playable (not a full demo, so adjust your expectations) by Halloween.
>>722451450Selfshippers.
>>722445891Only good male character from UTY that isn't a child or a non humanoid robot
>>722441153The epilogue we got was insane. We are somehow made to believe that we managed to fix everyone's problems and that we made the world a better place. While in reality not only do we fail to help, we actually end up making things even worse for the main cast.
>>722452174>Swingers Lame.
>>722452264its made with too much of an assumption of what happens if the undertale pacifist route happens. its a happy ending "by virtue of" but as ever before it slips because the characters go insanely out of character for it to happen. hell starlo JUST put himself on the line to attempt to stop ceroba from hurting clover, him going 5 minutes later "well if dying miserably is what you want kid!"
>>722452174Damn, I thought this was gonna be Chujin getting railed by a human
>>722452264>>722452420Literally all they needed to do was make the Asgore ending the pacifist ending whether or not you killed Ceroba. All your friends would back you up and Asgore would still kill you because the needs of the kingdom take precedent. It was simple and obvious and they made the intentional conscious decision to fuck it up.
>>722452420Even Undertale's pacifist doesn't reconcile how fundamentally broken our main cast ends up. None of them really learned anything. They started and ended the story as if nothing had happened.
>>722453169the consequences of a long dev process sadly. bad ideas not being stopped. hell they even had that art thing for martlet getting dragged away but wanted the ending to feel sappy I guess>>722453480we've got some things, ceroba not forging ahead on mad retard quests, relying on friends more, accepting the nature of chujins impact on the world, starlo realizing he needs to balance his persona with his life, martlet, well martlet is probably going to have the worst time since she basically went against everything she believes in self confidence issues aside, when she let clover die. we can imagine that ceroba may get kanako back, its not unreasonable considering how the pacifist ending in ut goes. there's development, but our girl does really get the worst of it.
>>722453702Clover's adventure had very little impact in the underground all things considered
i hope fartlet suffered a lot
>>722452514Are you disappointed?
>>722454883NTA but I am
Comic anon here, finally I have finished chapter 10 after what felt like ages, because the chapter had so much text that it burned me outFrom now on, I'm abridging all dialogue instead of keeping it 1:1 so this doesn't happen againThe comic right now has 492 pages, with 102 of those being just chapter 10, the other chapters were around 30 to 40 pages averageI will probably take a few days off from it though
>>722454496even the main cast think so
>>722454496>Clover's adventure had very little impact in the underground all things consideredWell yeah, they didn't go through most of the main areas of the underground, of course they wouldn't have had a direct impact on places and people they never saw.Still, them giving up their soul was necessary for the barrier to be breakable by the time Frisk fell, so they still made an impact in that sense.
>>722455026When are you gonna start releasing these?
I wonder, is SFML anon around? Wanted to ask some slightly odd questions regarding C++ workflows
>>722455375Whenever I have time to typeset it
>>722442883she'll probably realize she let another child die for nebulous reasons for a cause they have no right sacrificing themselves for and rope
>>722455593Haven't you already typeset a bunch of it?
>>722455327>Still, them giving up their soul was necessary for the barrier to be breakable by the time Frisk fell, so they still made an impact in that sense.if Clover died upon falling on the ruins and some random monster took his soul would anything really change? that's what I means by Clover's adventure being kind of irrelevant
>>722455026You're a fucking legend man
>>722455026>The comic right now has 492 pages,Holy fucking shit! Sounds like you have been working insanely hard for this comic
>>722454883Yeah
>>722455771If by "a bunch" you mean 10 pages.I was also gonna color it but that's too much work, I will just replace all my handwriting with a readable font, fix some panels and then I will figure where to upload it, but don't expect that anytime soon, but everything will be just the lineart.
>>722456719Will it be shaded?
>>722451865You’re mistaking the amount of Ceroba NSFW with people having a fixation on her or actually caring about her. They did not play the game. They don’t know her name. All people who thirst over Starlo 100% played the game on the other hand at least
>>722456908>allthe number of people that characterize him as "simp puppy boy" have not even looked at the game let alone played it
>>722456861If I am not feeling too dead by the time I get to it, maybe.I haven't drawn digitally in a long time, the comic is all made with just a ruler and a mechanical pencil on physical paper, which is also one of the reasons I don't feel like coloring since it would take way too long, and doing shading manually makes it harder to scan.
>>722456908the "Tumblr sexyman" effect is very strong, I still think more people selfship with Ceroba than with StarloSpeaking of which, I wonder if any of the fangames being developed here will give birth to a popular tumblr sexyman, Oldentale and Naranjanon did mention they accidentally created characters that fit in that archetype
>>722455891>if Clover died upon falling on the ruins and some random monster took his soul would anything really change?Clover still affected the lives of the people they *did* meet, even if that wasn't as many people as Frisk met, so they still had a decent effect on the underground aside from giving up their soul.
>>722456908>You’re mistaking the amount of Ceroba NSFWActually I was referring to the amount of people who selfship with Starlo vs Ceroba, which is what the guy who originally made that post I was replying to meant by "yumes". In that regard, Ceroba gets way more attention than Starlo does, even from people who actually know and like the characters.
Hey, if that anon who said he was gonna write that UTY green about the amalgamates acting like the Flood is still here, how's that going along?
I beat UTY before UT so I cheered when the yellow soul and the bed amalgamate showed up
DRYanon2 here.in a previous thread i said that after silksong i'd have nothing else im looking forward to playing for a while so i could make some decent progress.... i forgot about scream fortress and the upcoming MVM update. so that was a lie.
>>722458023if all the other souls get their own prequel fangames, playing them all in chronological order before playing Undertale for the first time must be an experience
>>722458223for shame, anon
>>722458223I'm used to broken promises by now. Noboby will ever releases anything and I'm okay with that.
>>722458441surely december will have nothing to distract me...
>>722458441Don't be so defeatist anon.
>>722458441>Noboby will ever releases anything and I'm okay with that.DRY1anon one released one chapter and half and Naranja has a battle demo, you just need to have some faith anon
reminder that ceroba is fat
>>722458223>i forgot about scream fortress and the upcoming MVM update.Ey, fellow TF2 enjoyer, nice.
>>722457113Maybe you could try partial coloring. Only coloring in certain colors while leaving the rest black and white to give the image more character and energy. Or only coloring certain panels. And if pencil doesn't scan well, you could do the shading with pen, that's what most professional comic artists do.I'm only caught up on this because just a little visual flare is the difference between a meh comic and a great one. It doesn't take much, just something to keep it from being flat lines.
>>722457227I have a couple. A funny manlet who likes to tell jokes and has a tragic backstory (he's totally different from Sans, I swear), a tall lanklet who's as stupid as he is confident and wears a mask at all times, and an overly casual bandit with a skinny build who wears ragged clothes. All three of them have big hats.One of them I am curious whether he will get more female or fag fans though, since he is a furry.
>>722458223I'd call you a faggot, but that would make me a hypocrite. Instead I guess I'll just get back to work.
>>722458787*flat
>>722460056im sorry! im sorry about the contracts.i knew i shouldn't have, but every halloween pumpkin bag has to go somewhere. THEY HAD TO GO SOMEWHERE!
>>722459465Hm, I do have an android tablet that I haven't used in a while.I could load the scans into it and color them there instead of using my usb drawing tablet on my PC (because I really don't like drawing with it).
>>722460134>Magical kanaclover board: KILLED
>>722458441>anon doesn't even insult or cry anymoreApathy is anathema to Determination. Don't do it.
>>722460164Eh, digital color is pretty boring too. At least the easy kind is. If you went the extra mile to make it match the rest of the art and look like pencil it would be nice, but just a paint bucket tool or some plain brush work with flat colors isn't going to be worth the effort.Maybe I'm wrong and know nothing, but that's just my 2 cents.
>>722443471UTY is a furry gameIt has no value other than being glorified fapbait for furfags>UTut is for tumblr teenagers and their art eclipses whatever fotm artist churned out their yearly toriel pic
>>722460424I did consider using colored pencils but then I would need to rescan everything and the first 2 volumes (the first 400 pages) are already in a somewhat finished book with a spiral, and I'd need to unravel the entire thing and redo it, not to mention every time I try to color physical drawings it ends up blurring the graphite lines since I use HB pencil tips.I'll just give it a go with a few digital options and see how it works out.
>>722460754If you can fake a color pencil or pen sketch look digitally I think it could look nice.
>>722460115you wish
>>722460638>It has no value other than being glorified fapbait for furfagsThen where are all the hot anthro men and cute anthro boys?
>>722461751straight furfags
>>722461878Those don't exist and you know it
>>722462438clearly they do if people try to make threads about this game all the time
>>722441153
>>722462438I am a straight furry, and so is most of /v/. They just don't want to admit it.
>>722463757a lovely bird
>>722463916>I am a straight furry, and so is most of /v/.I won't doubt that, but last time someone asked for the preferences of the anons of these threads, a considerable amount stated they were bisexuals
>>722464419I also think most of the bisexuals on /v/ are just prison gay
>>722463757Martlet is absolutely the type of person who will take the stall next to yours and continue to casually yap about shit while both of you are taking a shit.
>>722464736Its not exactly prison gay when it comes to furboys
>>722464419eww
>>722465436They only ever go for the effeminate ones, and only want to dom them, so it basically is.
>>722465436>can't feel the touch of another human being>take solace in the comfort of anthropomorphic creaturesMany such cases
>>722464994is that your fetish?
>>722443471People are mostly trying to talk about DELTARUNE actually, well, partially DELTARUNE, partially some dude named Yagi since there's not much to talk about until Chapter 5 comes out next year or a newsletter releasesThere's some fags who are trying (and failing) to run gay ops to convince people to not like it, and some retards from /vg/ showing up and """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""discussing"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" UNDERTALE.Probably doesn't help that DELTARUNE was banned and gay opped basically day one from being discussed so all the threads are cracked.
>>722465925No it just happened to me once.
>>722465436Prison gay is such a funny cope. Reminds me of Tony Soprano saying “you get a pash for that” about fucking men in prison because there’s no women. If you wanna fuck Chujin you’re a fag.
>>722466685There's a clear distinction between the guys who want to fuck Chujin because he looks like a girl, and the guys who want to get fucked by Asgore.
>>722467073I mean if you said>Every woman in UT/Y was terribleYou'd have a point.The premise you've presented is just>I'm gay, but have a preference for Femboys.
>>722467073gay is gay, man. Simple as.
>>722467073Chujin doesn’t even look like a girl he’s just skinny.
>>722467125Never said I wanted to fuck Chujin or Asgore, I was just saying they're the straightest kind of gay. They're the secondaries of homosexuality. >>722467152There are degrees of gay. They definitely are gay, but less gay most gays.
>>722467245all the smut of him I've seen people lust over here has him in women's clothes acting like a girl.
>>722467341That Ceroba looks like somebody's FNF oc, and that Chujin looks like my OC. He's even got the jinco's.
>>722467347That means you're gay.
>>722467757There's that you again. Never said I was into any of this stuff. I just like Kanako.
>>722467826But you’d be thinking about Chujin while fucking her right?
>>722466305I still don't get what the Yagi stuff is about there's a little dude that gets posted some times but I missed like any actual explanation.
>>722467953No, probably would be thinking about how to sneak past him without getting murdered after I finished fucking her though.
>>722468336Someone found the "dead" kid from the Ralsei is a dead kid theory, and started stalking him, and somehow that's blown up into multiple schizos and flame wars. I don't know the specifics of anything beyond the inciting incident since I don't pay attention to schizo drama.
>>722452174Oh...
>>722467245They turn him into a twink with a dumptruck in most of the porn
>>722468336So completely understandable if you missed it but there was that one stupid meme where people were joking that Ralsei was "based on a dead kid" you know, it's a dumb little post, someone gets mad, whatever, that shit had been going on for like the past 5 years, and it probably would have croaked years ago but some dude would get mad every time it was posted.Well, as it turns out (and the first dude that posted this way way back in 2020 or whatever probably knew about this) but there's like, an ACTUAL guy that fits the incredibly specific description of the person that was described in the rumor, like to a disturbing level of detail ASIDE from the fact that he's alive, and this was found by someone actually bothering to google some of the details in the rumor and finding some tumblr blogs that prove he actually existed back then in 2016.One dude tried to get in contact with these tumblr blogs and was told to fuck off, and I think they might be mad? and basically declared it a dead end and pretty much demanded that everyone immediately forget all the weird shit that just happened, and this ended up resulting in someone checking the names of the tumblr users that were contacted on Steam and as it turns out he was just sitting on their public friendslist right there in the open.This has pretty much gone no-where but people just watching him since nobody actually seems to be I guess "brave"? enough to actually try to talk to him, or they understand that it'd be really weird and probably inappropriate to contact him.Something interesting might happen if someone actually contacts him but probably not.I think that's about it.Oh, also the whole group project he was a part of weirdly enough tried to reboot without him but died when Deltarune released On his birthday of that year WOOOOooooOOOOO sPoOky!!!
>>722469197>group projectWhat was it?
>>722468487>>722469197
>>722469374No idea, some kind of tumblr thing with a bunch of people working on it, the actual thing is gone now.
>>722469490Imagine if it was a UT fangame
>>722469616I mean depending on your definition maybe it qualified as a game, but probably not like an Undertale Yellow type thing.Either way it's gone now.
>>722469454I mean with it all laid out like that, yeah it is kind of nuts, it must have been way crazier in the actual thread where they found out he was, you know. Actually real.
I wish that sig guy was still around I like his art.
>>722470165He showed a couple threads ago and did some art
>>722469814Do you have a link to this thread?
>>722441153They helped kill himsoooooooo>wow maybe I should have done something>did nothing
>>722470235Oh nice I missed that, that's Undertale orange, right?
>>722470238Sorry, I don't you can probably check an archive for it I can't imagine there's too many results for people saying "Yagi" on 4chan that aren't from the past month.
>>722470297Wildfire. Not to be confused with Naranja, which is a different UT Orange game.
>>722470519Wow, two oranges?
>>722470559There were more, but these two are the only ones left.
>>722470631That's a shame
>>722470362Is it this?https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/720926076
>>722470559"Wow orange soul, how come your mom lets you have two fangames?"*muffled screaming emanating from jar*
>>722471186I wasn't there dude, maybe?
>>722471216There's a running theory that only one of them is THE orange soul and the other one actually gets a happy ending.
>>722471324I'm aware, yes.I also think that's kinda stupid and leaves a lot of problems that would make no sense that would make UTY blush, but whatever.
>>722471593If it's for fun is it really that important?
>>722471593toby said it was fine if we IMAGINE it, just like the new gerson lore drop breaks everything about the human monster war and makes it make even less sense than before
>>722471186Seems like the shitshow starts at >>720934392
>>722469197>an ACTUAL guy that fits the incredibly specific description of the person that was described in the rumorNTA you were replying to, but was the rumor actually based on this kid specifically, or is this just a case of the stars aligning just right and a shitpost managing to almost perfectly describe a real event by accident?
>>722471593I think its possible for Riley to successfully disappear if he tries hard enough. From there, he doesn't really interact with anything, so Undertale would still happen as normal.
>>722471624I mean, if the point of all these various soul fangames is to serve as a backstory for each of the six human souls like how UTY did, it would be kinda weird for the game to do a rugpull and say "oh btw this guy isn't actually the soul you see in a jar in UT and was just some random jackoff the whole time, the end".>>722471635>toby said it was fine if we IMAGINE itNo, Toby said it was fine *to* imagine things, not that imagining things automatically makes them good.
>>722471712I'm pretty sure the guy who started the rumor would have to come back to clarify that and that's probably not happening. Some guy did find a post where the kid('s character) was mentioned burning down a house for some undisclosed reason right before the first run of this thing died, eerily mirroring what Gerson said about what happens after Chapter 5If it's a coincidence, it's a pretty BIG one.At this point basically the only thing that could be done is someone ask if anything else weird is going on with the kid.
>>722471818>I think its possible for Riley to successfully disappear if he tries hard enough.Maybe, if he lives as far off the grid as possible and barely interacts with anyone for the rest of his life.>From there, he doesn't really interact with anything, so Undertale would still happen as normal.His soul's presence in the underground would still be a problem, because that would mean there are eight human souls present in the underground during the events of UT, which means that extra human soul would certainly be detected and absorbed by Flowey/Asriel when he absorbs the souls of all monsters in the underground, giving him the power of seven human souls and the equivalent of one human soul from all the monster souls. Monster souls are said to be incredibly hard to absorb due to their more intrinsic connection to their bodies, so if Flowey can bypass that, I see no reason at all why he wouldn't be able to pry a human's soul from their body like that if he had more DT than them, especially given how disconnected human souls can be.
>>722471917>I mean, if the point of all these various soul fangames is to serve as a backstory for each of the six human soulsThat's a big assumption. Perhaps that's not Wildfire's goal, and they just made it look like a Yellow style soul prequel as a setup to a later payoff.I'd prefer a surprise happy ending over yet another "you always knew how this had to end" story.
>>722472138>Perhaps that's not Wildfire's goal, and they just made it look like a Yellow style soul prequel as a setup to a later payoff.That's not really a payoff though. A payoff is like the answer to a question, and the question implicitly being asked with all of these sorts of fangames is "who were the humans the six human souls belonged to?". Having the answer to that payoff be "some random guy you weren't playing as and was never relevant until we needed to come up with a reason for our super special boy to survive" isn't satisfying, it's a non sequitur, and it's just bad writing.
>>722472137he could just say no like napstablook did
>>722472137>Maybe, if he lives as far off the grid as possible and barely interacts with anyone for the rest of his life.Yeah, he goes full uncle ted with his bunny wife, which appears to be what he's already trying to do.>, which means that extra human soul would certainly be detected and absorbed by Flowey/Asriel when he absorbs the souls of all monsters in the underground,He didn't absorb Napstablook because he pretended like he wasn't home when the mysterious soul stealing light started grabbing everyone. Maybe Riley just hid when weird things started happening. Or maybe he lived his entire natural life underground before Flowey had a chance to be made. There was a big time skip between the death of Asriel and the creation of Flowey. Possibly hundreds of years in length. At that point maybe he died and his soul dispersed naturally.
>>722472421Napstablook did that because ghosts are apparently special and apparently also intangible/invincible until they merge with a physical object, so I'm guessing that's why he wasn't absorbed into Flowey. Human souls go all over the place and can apparently just be physically grabbed and manipulated however you see fit.Given Flowey's power at the end of true pacifist, you'd have to be the meanest, toughest, roughest son of a bitch in the wasteland underground to avoid being absorbed through sheer willpower, and I don't think that's Riley.
>>722472345I suppose setup and payoff is a bad term. Its a bait and switch, which aren't necessarily a thing. If the switch is good then you don't feel bad about getting baited. The bait would be "look at this orange soul human" which would naturally lead the player to think he's THE orange soul human. And the switch is the moment of elation the player gets when they actually win, and get a good ending for the characters they spent the entirety of the game getting attached to, despite having every reason to believe they were doomed.I think that's worth it and is therefore good writing.
>>722472594human souls could also likely have enough determination to reject flowey, he is only actually able to absorb all monster souls because frisk befriending them actually brought all of them (except napstablook) to the throne room, where he could just absorb all of themso either flowey's soul suck only has a limited range, or they could make riley's soul just reject the call/be invisible to it if flowey was specifically looking only for monstersor use the other anon's idea where riley is already long dead
>>722472594>Napstablook did that because ghosts are apparently specialNapstablook said it was because he didn't answer the door.>and I don't think that's Riley.We don't know how Wildfire is gonna play out. Maybe he will be a genuine badass by the end of it.
>>722472682>the switch is the moment of elation the player gets when they actually win, and get a good ending for the characters they spent the entirety of the game getting attached to, despite having every reason to believe they were doomed.If this happened, people (especially on this board) would be making fun of it and whatever poor fuck orange soul gets put on the chopping block for literally years. However much people talk shit about the ending to UTY and Clover dying, multiply that by ten, I fucking promise you.You say that would be good writing because it's just a thing you want to have happen, but there's no fucking way they can pull it off without it feeling like the cheapest wish-fulfillment shit in the world.
>>722472116If nobody's answering question who would you ask?
>>722472815>Napstablook said it was because he didn't answer the door.Okay, but actually think about that for a moment.Other people who were indoors got absorbed, so it's not like it only affected people outside.What are we saying this implies, that the soul-stealing white light went around ringing doorbells to get people to come out so it could absorb them?I think the more plausible answer is that Napstablook was able to resist the effects by virtue of his soul not being as tangible as other monsters, due to him not being corporeal.
>>722472956Asking the kid himself. You know if anyone will actually do it.
>>722472926>and whatever poor fuck orange soul gets put on the chopping block for literally years.The only other candidate is Val, and I don't see that being a negative with him. His entire character is "dumb kid thinks he's Goku". HIm dying because he bit off way more than he could chew just makes sense and would be a fitting end to his character, in addition to also being really funny. He would let the final boss absorb the macguffin to achieve his final form, he would give the super boss a revive mint, and he would absolutely fall for the pistol cheap shot.Riley, by contrast, just wants to be left alone to live his life. Him dying would just be a cheap gut punch done for the sake of "muh continuity", which I think is the worst reason to do anything in your story. Undertale's plot should come second to what works best internally in your game.>but there's no fucking way they can pull it off without it feeling like the cheapest wish-fulfillment shit in the world.I think you're just being a doomer anon.
Honest question.Are Napstablook/Hapstablook/Madstablook even monsters at all?
>>722473338What would they be if they weren't?They're certainly odd monsters compared to all the rest, but we also see monsters that are literally living rocks, or large scale bacterial colonies, so I wouldn't say their strangeness inherently precludes them from being monsters.
>>722473420>What would they be if they weren't?Ghosts
>>722473040>that the soul-stealing white light went around ringing doorbells to get people to come out so it could absorb themKnowing the setting, I do think that is what happened. The funniest option tends to be the correct one with UT.If you wanted a less silly answer, it passed by his house because it thought no one was home. He was pretending to not be home, and his house is already pretty run down. Asriel probably just assumed no one was there and moved on to the next house.Whatever secluded corner Riley finally managed to find peace in would have to be very out of the way, and he would be very accustomed to hiding. Maybe Asriel never even came to his hidden cave dwelling, or maybe he hid when he saw the ominous white light approaching.
>>722473338Ghosts are a type of monster, so yes.>>722473420>large scale bacterial coloniesWho?
>>722473312>Riley, by contrast, just wants to be left alone to live his life. Him dying would just be a cheap gut punch done for the sake of "muh continuity"It wouldn't be a cheap gut punch for continuity, it would be a tragedy. You know, the sort of thing a person writes when they wanna write a sad story.It's pretty obvious, you set up Riley as a decent person who just wants to live a quiet life, but who slowly has that all ripped away from them through little to no fault of their own, until eventually they get jar'd.This is what is known as a tragedy.
What are your current Undertale Wildfire headcanons?
>>722452174Nigga
>>722473573And we've already been there and done that. That would just be a complete retread of UTY. Specifically the parts nobody likes.
>>722473565Moldsmal.And Moldbygg.Well, alright, my mistake, those are slime molds, not bacteria. Point is, there are definitely some monsters out there that don't fall in line with the other sorts of monsters we see in the underground.
>>722473594Riley lives, Mr Sunshine is a sex offender, Luna lost her arm in a fight against UT Carol.
>>722471186Also really funny, in this thread was a guy declaring someone else "gay enough to have a tumblr" and then they just ended up having one.
>>722473683>That would just be a complete retread of UTY.No, the only thing they would have in common is the human character dying.Clover definitely did not want to live a quiet life at the start of the game, they willingly plunged into a mountain people are said to never return from for the sake of "getting justice" for the people who fell before them. Whatever they felt at the end of their journey, they went into the underground with a purpose to fulfill, one they were implicitly willing to die for, or kill for.Wildfire could still end with the human character dying, it would just have a much different angle about it. Instead of the human character willingly giving themselves up for monsterkind, or willingly putting themselves in the position for their soul to be harvested generally, maybe they vehemently fight against that and try as hard as they can to live something resembling a peaceful life down in the underground, only for them to never get what they want as they're pushed further and further towards inevitability. In fact, I could actually see the opposite of the kind of payoff you were talking about before working pretty well. Riley spends the entire game desperately trying to survive and return to normality, trying and failing and trying again to overcome herculean odds, and just when they've surpassed the hardest challenge they've been given so far, and when it looks like they'll finally be able to live in peace and safety, it all comes crashing down around them, sealing their fate.Maybe a "four knocks" sort of situation, I could see it.
>>722473683It sort of bums me out that UTY sort of fumbles the ending.I get the closest "canon accurate" ending is killing ceroba and clover getting his shit stomped in by Asgore, but it really is a shame they couldn't have handled the ending better.Honestly I think just having a conversation with Asgore and moving the suicide scene there would have been "better". Since it could have played into the utterly defeated state Asgore is in Undertale proper.
>>722474080Why do you want this so bad? Haven't we suffered enough?
>>722474167>Why do you want this so bad?Hm, just a matter of taste, I suppose.>Haven't we suffered enough?If you have to ask, no.
>>722474216Go fuck yourself anon. I'm gonna make my prequel fangame have a super sappy happy ending just for you. And I'm gonna completely wreck Undertale's lore while doing it.
>>722473594Luna's mom is still alive, either she's around outright or she faked her death.This is what I want to believe, because MILFs are too sexy to die.
>>722474451she big
>>722474397Jokes on you pal, the further away your concept is from base UT, the easier it is for me to Imagine™ it out of existence.
>>722474537>Big woman>Small manthis reminds me of that image of the tiny pet bunny with his giant coney girlfriend.
>>722474451>>722474537>parents don't wear shoes>daughter, despite being an amputee who would have a harder time putting them on, doesMy bias as someone who thinks all furries are better with paws aside that seems impractical
>>722474647Having furry characters wear shoes makes them hotter when they take them off.
>>722474647Maybe she wears them because of the cold.
>>722474683Not everyone wants paws to be syrupy, in fact I think it's only one guy in these threads who does
>>722473814Yeah, that was pretty funnyShame they couldn't get any results
>>722474573Ah, but you see you'll only know its far away from base UT once you've gotten to the end and you're utterly invested in the characters and want to see them win.
>>722474749>syrupyAlright, what's with that word being used like this?Also, I'm not even saying they should be super sweaty or anything, I'm mostly just saying it's like seeing someone naked is better when they usually wear clothing.
>>722474749>>722474739fun fact: bunnies don't actually have paw pads, instead their feet are fully encased in fur which serves as cushioning for when they jump
>>722474797>you're utterly invested in the characters and want to see them win.Oh, you have severely misunderstood how I view characters and what I want for them.
>>722474915>seeing someone naked is better when they usually wear clothingNot that I don't see your point but I think we might be on entirely different wavelengths because I think characters who don't normally wear any clothes putting some on is even hotter and does a better job at drawing attention to the lewdness of being naked 99% of the time>syrupyIf you don't know you don't want to know
>>722475076>If you don't know you don't want to knowI want the truth!If it's just that "syrupy pawjobs" bit, then yes, I know about that.
>>722474537I hope Luna inherits her mom's "assets (especially her height)
>>722475334>>722474942>>722474537how did luna lose her arm? was it mr sunshine?
>>722474950Dropping the bit, I get wanting to run characters through the ringer for the sake of good drama and character development. I just get tired of it after a while. There is such a thing as too much. I feel that in a choice based game with multiple endings, its bad to have the endings be wall to wall suffering. Makes the sadness lose its meaning. I stop being interested and just become tired of it.Its like watching a horror movie and realizing the character is gonna die, so I just stop caring.
>>722475502sometimes it is about the journey instead of the destination
>>722475502Alright, if you're gonna speak in good faith, so will I.I actually largely care about storytelling and continuity, and most everything else is second to those things. (This is a large reason why I dislike the Deus Ex prequel games.) If a character getting a happy ending in a story, prequel or not, is plausible and feels like a satisfying end to the story that's been told so far, that's fine. If a character getting killed and having everything they cared about destroyed before their very eyes feels like the more plausible and satisfying ending, that's fine too.For games that are meant to act as prequels to the story of UT, I really can't see a way around having the main human character bite the dust without some crazy narrative gymnastics, and at that rate, I'd rather just see the human die.
>>722475691I gotta disagree. A bad destination will ruin even the greatest journey.
>>722475387I got hungry
>>722475858I think a compromise can be reached where all but one route is non canon like how UTY's geno goes off the rails. Though most fangames will try to make true pacifist the one golden ending because it is what UT did, even if it doesn't fit (like UTY and I bet other projects with the blue soul).
>>722475962NTA, but I vehemently disagree.A great journey should stand on it's own, and shouldn't be inherently tied to it's destination.The lame endings to ME3 didn't make curing the genophage any less awesome, the lame ending to Halo 2 didn't make the campaign overall any less enjoyable, the lame endings to Deus Ex didn't stop it from being one of the best PC games of all time, etc.
>>722476073>I think a compromise can be reached where all but one route is non canon like how UTY's geno goes off the rails.Yeah, that's perfectly fine, I have no problem with that.Like any law-abiding time traveler, you can do whatever you want, as long as certain specific things still happen eventually.
>>722475858>I actually largely care about storytelling and continuityI agree on story telling, but I think continuity is a luxury item as far as writing is concerned. Its nice to have, but is not at the top of the list of priorities. Especially in a fangame. According to the official continuity, none of this happens at all, so you shouldn't put too much stock in continuity.> feels like the more plausible and satisfying ending, that's fine too.I don't think Riley dying in every ending except the token evil route would be satisfying. Especially not after UTY already had its main character die tragically regardless of what you do. Things get tiresome when you repeat them, especially emotionally taxing things like tragedies. 6^(number of game endings) tragedies where the main character dies in a row just sounds repetitive and dreary.>For games that are meant to act as prequels to the story of UT, I really can't see a way around having the main human character bite the dust without some crazy narrative gymnasticsI can think of a few ways. The easiest would be to simply have the ending be ambiguous. Riley survives, but he's not completely safe. Someone some day could kill him and take his soul, or maybe he really was the one that got away. Leaves room for a more strict interpretation of canon like yours, while also allowing for a more hopeful one for people who want to believe. Another option would be to include non-canon endings that let Riley live. Just have the bad ending be the timeline where Undertale happens. Could also have a time skip where he dies of natural causes. The game never specifies how long the gaps between the fallen humans were, maybe they were long enough for him to live until he died of natural causes.
>>722476107I think we've had this argument before, but I really liked Deus Ex endings. They were a little lack luster presentation wise, but they were still narratively satisfying. A bad ending is something that makes me wish I never went on this journey to begin with. Something like the ending to UTY. Everyone loses and I'm worse off for playing it. Most horror games also tend to do this, which is why don't like them. You go through all the work to survive, only for them to kill you in a cutscene anyways.
>>722476680>>722475858All that aside, I think Undertale is a setting that's uniquely suited to breaking canon. Its a setting where alternate universes and timeline manipulation not only exist, but are so common and easy to encounter they border on being mundane. And its a setting where willpower can bend reality and change fate, where the player is a canon part of the game, and his protagonism gives him more of this power than anyone else in the setting.Maybe (you)'re involvement forced the timeline to change through sheer determination. Maybe just involving (you) caused a butterfly effect which broke the intended fate of things in a number of subtle ways, culminating in an entirely different ending and fate for the characters.Maybe the fanon can recongnize that it's fanon, and leverage that power to make a better future. I can think of some pretty cool ways to represent the fanon/canon distinction in universe to make that conflict work as a plot element.
>>722476809>I think we've had this argument before, but I really liked Deus Ex endings.Not with me at least, this is the first time I've brought them up like this here.For the record, I don't actually think the endings to Deus Ex were *bad*, but they definitely could've been a bit better and more fleshed out for each of them, it would've been nice to see more of their consequences on the wider world and its inhabitants. Also, making the endings only be influenced by your choices on the very last level is also a little lame.Really, it's a shame we never got a real remaster or remake of the original DX, I would've loved to see a properly finished version of the game, complete with a full UNATCO storyline like they planned.But I digress.>Something like the ending to UTY. Everyone loses and I'm worse off for playing it.I think that's more subjective, I myself quite enjoyed my time with UTY's world and characters, regardless of the sad ending.>Most horror games also tend to do this, which is why don't like them. You go through all the work to survive, only for them to kill you in a cutscene anyways.Eh, not always. Some horror games let you find ways to survive in the end if you're good enough, like Amnesia: The Dark Descent, or maybe SCP: Containment Breach. Don't take that as me sucking off CB, that's just an example of a horror game that lets you survive in the end if you know what you're doing.
>>722476680>you shouldn't put too much stock in continuity.I think continuity's pretty important for a game that's meant to act as a prequel to an existing story.>I don't think Riley dying in every ending except the token evil route would be satisfying.Well yeah, that's why you'd change how/why they'd die in different routes. Hell, maybe you could do the opposite, where Riley would live in every ending *except* the ending that lines up with canon UT. >The easiest would be to simply have the ending be ambiguous. Riley survives, but he's not completely safe. Someone some day could kill him and take his soul, or maybe he really was the one that got away.That's still not really satisfying, because then that turns the game from being the story about the orange soul and how it was collected, into being the story of some random, inconsequential day in the life of an orange soulled human (who may or may not actually be *the* orange soulled human that actually matters), where nothing important actually happens in the actual story of the game until one day when they may or may not be whacked off screen. This is one of those cases where a definitive answer is just the better option, ambiguity doesn't really work in the story's favor here.
>>722477089>I think that's more subjectiveAll of this is subjective. I don't think true objectivity is even possible when discussing what makes good writing, because all of this is ultimately stuff that only exists in our imagination, and our reactions to it.I think its bad, and the most I can possibly do is share my reasons why I feel that way in the hopes that I convince you.>Eh, not always.Of course, but a lot of them do. Like the Outlast series. Or Resident Evil 8, which really pissed me off because not only did it invalidate the entire journey in it, but the journey in the previous game as well with its, you were dead from the start twist, in addition to killing Mia at the start. I have a habit of dropping things halfway through so I don't have to see the ending, because I know it will ruin it for me. Like BSG, I dropped it at New Caprica because I didn't like the direction it was taking. I'm considering dropping Deltarune depending on how chapter 5 goes.
>>722477547>I have a habit of dropping things halfway through so I don't have to see the ending, because I know it will ruin it for me.Wow, unironic picrel, amazing.>Like BSG, I dropped it at New Caprica because I didn't like the direction it was taking.You know what, you actually may have made the right choice on that one. I finished all of BSG (didn't watch the "Caprica" series though), and I genuinely can't think of an ending that upset me more than that. Like, I think that might be the only example of an ending actually kinda fucking up the rest of the show for me. Although to be fair, the storyline about the other Cylon models and all that shit with earth kinda fucked it up well before the finishing blow, so meh.
>>722473290Wait if nobody can get a hold of anyone who knows him how do we get a hold of him? I don't think you thought this through.
>>722477438>I think continuity's pretty important for a game that's meant to act as a prequel to an existing story.To me, prequels exist not for the sake of what they're a prequel to, but for the sake of themselves. They exist to tell an interesting story in the setting, regardless of what happens after them. They don't exist to explain back stories and setup the original story.>Well yeah, that's why you'd change how/why they'd die in different routes.That wouldn't do anything. He still dies despite my best efforts.>because then that turns the game from being the story about the orange soul and how it was collectedI don't see how that's a good premise. I don't want to know how the orange soul was collected. Nothing good can come of learning this information. Just a bunch of running in circles until I arrive at the destination I was already at, ten times more miserable than before.>into being the story of some random, inconsequential day in the life of an orange soulled humanHim dying so he can be a one off macguffin in someone else's story is the definition of inconsequential. Riley's life and struggle for survival is consequential for him and the people around him, which is all that matter here. He's fighting to live another day, so him winning means he gets to live another day. And when I leave him, its when he's already fought and won another day of life once, despite the odds, so I can safely assume he can do it again.>This is one of those cases where a definitive answer is just the better option, ambiguity doesn't really work in the story's favor here.If the definitive answer is "he dies, the end, none of this mattered" then no it really isn't.
>>722452174uh oh based
>>722477904Read you dingus, his friends that were hiding him ironically revealed him pretty blatantly.Regarding what's being talked about itt.Did you ever care about Kingdom Hearts? Did you feel the same way about Birth By Sleep? Because that's still a pretty good game even though they straight up tell you how it's gonna end right at the get go.
>>722477761>Wow, unironic picrel, amazing.I have no idea who that is.Its not like endings inherently ruin things for me. Its that I can smell a bad ending a mile a way, and know to get when the getting's good. I mostly do this with TV shows because they tend to get worse over time.>and I genuinely can't think of an ending that upset me more than that.That's how I feel about the premise people try to push for Undertale prequel fangames.
>>722477997>To me, prequels exist not for the sake of what they're a prequel to, but for the sake of themselves. They exist to tell an interesting story in the setting, regardless of what happens after them. They don't exist to explain back stories and setup the original story.Well, most prequels that exist run completely counter to your idea of what a prequel is, so I think you may just have to reconcile that on your own.>That wouldn't do anything. He still dies despite my best efforts.Yes, that's kinda the point of a lot of stories like this, especially if that's part of the story in-universe too. >I don't want to know how the orange soul was collected. Nothing good can come of learning this information. Just a bunch of running in circles until I arrive at the destination I was already at, ten times more miserable than before.Why do I get the feeling you and I have had a very similar argument before?I don't feel like rehashing all of that just to arrive at the same conclusion, so I'll just put the ending here.TL;DR, the sadness is the point. You aren't supposed to feel like you just broke the barrier like in UT, you're supposed to feel the weight of what the previous fallen humans had to give up in order for the barrier to be broken in the first place.
>>722441153Fartlet
What would you want to know the most about Wildfire?
>>722478241>I have no idea who that is.Why, it's the man who can't finish anything.>That's how I feel about the premise people try to push for Undertale prequel fangames.The ending to BSG was so much worse than you can possibly imagine, you have no idea. UTY's ending, or any prequel ending where the main character(s) bite the dust, is fucking nothing compared to the monumental kick in the nuts that was the ending to BSG.
>>722478293when the new demo will come outthough really, how luna will react if you do genocide
>>722441153Martlet and Ceroba become addicted to human dick after the barrier is destroyed and monsters return to the surface, both of them trying to fuck their unresolved feelings for Clover away.
>>722478145On steam, if you need more help.
>>722478384>New DemoGoing to be a while longer. Devs thought it would finish by the end of the year but thats not happening apparently at the rate the process is going. Set expectations for 2026-ish>Luna Genocide reaction No comment
>>722477997>If the definitive answer is "he dies, the end, none of this mattered" then no it really isn't.Look, death just isn't the career ender it used to be, lots of people have died and gone on to do really really well.
>>722478524you a dev or has contact with them?at least tell me the demo has some luna content
>>722478640A friend of a friend.>Luna contentShe is there, yes
Don't mind me, just posting the REAL Undertale Yellow ending.
>>722478256>Why do I get the feeling you and I have had a very similar argument before?Because we have.>the sadness is the point. You aren't supposed to feel like you just broke the barrier like in UT, you're supposed to feel the weight of what the previous fallen humans had to give up in order for the barrier to be broken in the first place.Fair enough with your point about UTY, but are we going to do that again? Six more times? More if we count multiple takes on the same soul? At a certain point there has to be a limit at which the "tragic story to show the what it cost to get Undertale" loses its impact and becomes nothing more than misery porn for the sake of it.My entire interest in Wildfire comes from the hope that it isn't just going to do that again. That's my interest in most fangames, actually. I'm invested in DRY because its UTY, but without the parts I dislike, and with parts I do like. I'm interested in Naranja because even if I do think Val is gonna die, I don't think his death will be tragic.
>>722478293Is it possible to get a good ending for Riley? I need to know whether I can allow myself to stay as invested as I am right now or if I need to kill my attachment to the game before it can hurt me like UTY did.
>>722478629That doesn't happen in the game, and his bunny wife is going to be old as dirt or dead by the time he's brought back (if he's brought back) so he might as well be dead forever.
>>722478761nice, hope there is romance, I really need fluffy gfs
>>722478941>Because we have.Ah, nice to see you again pal.>Fair enough with your point about UTY, but are we going to do that again? Six more times?Yes, it is a bit repetitive, which is why Toby knew to cut to the chase and show us the one that got away.You could make this all a bit less repetitive by making it so that the various humans each die for different reasons, such as circumstantial differences or different personal failings on their parts. Clover's death was caused by their desire for justice becoming so strong that it eventually became incompatible with them living their life, which lead to their downfall, maybe the other humans had different ideological reasons for what they did and how they were eventually lead to Asgore.Hell, you could actually make the games pretty different from each other based on what little we know of the six humans in base UT. Take the integrity soul, for example. In UT, the integrity soul's belongings are dusty, and can be found hidden away in Waterfall. Ignoring was UTY says the integrity soul was like, maybe you could use the information from UT as the base for a fairly short story about what happened to them, with it only lasting up until they die in waterfall, presumably being hunted down after whatever they did to get their stuff all dusty.Even if they all have a similar destination, the journeys themselves can be made different enough from each other to still be interesting in their own rights.Hey, if you really want a happier ending, maybe you could do a ME3 "Perfect Destruction" ending sort of thing, where you unlock a special scene of the human character waking up and getting out of their coffin after the true pacifist ending of UT, just like Commander Shepard waking up on the Crucible.
>>722478524Any estimate on how long the demo is going to be? And is there any info on how many "areas" there are in the full game?
>>722479189How long ago does UTW take place before UT?Also, I mostly meant that even once someone dies, their impact on the world doesn't just vanish along with them.That Jesus guy I hear so much about died like 2000 years ago, and I still hear people talking about him every now and then.
>>722479046>Good endingAs far as I know, its "Good enough" for the situation that Riley is in. Dont expect a Yellow Pacifist retread, take that as you will
>>722479486>its "Good enough" for the situation that Riley is inThis feels like a monkey's paw curling if I've ever seen it.
>>722478293Is Riley circumcised?
>>722479438>New Demo ContentProbably bigger than what you expect for an area demo>AreasDont know exactly, but likely 4-5 areas with varying lengths for each
>>722478293Is there an ending where they get jar'd?
>>722479654>Is Riley Circumcized?Whatever you wish is the truth>>722479708>Jar'dUnknown
>>722479980Is there an ending where they kick the bucket in general?
>>722479360>You could make this all a bit less repetitive by making it so that the various humans each die for different reasons, such as circumstantial differences or different personal failings on their parts.They're still dying because of circumstance and personal failings. Its all the same, only minor details change. Even their journeys and all the characters in it are unimportant since the game is ultimately about that soul ending up in that jar. The why and how are just means to an end, that end being Undertale. The characters and events in that game can't be important since if they were, it could jeopardize canon.>maybe you could do a ME3 "Perfect Destruction" ending sort of thing, where you unlock a special scene of the human character waking up and getting out of their coffin after the true pacifist ending of UT, just like Commander Shepard waking up on the CrucibleThat's cheap and does practically nothing. Yeah all your friends are long dead and your struggles were for nothing, but hey you're alive again and the world is save, and it all had nothing to do with you. (aside from your earthly remains being briefly used as a powerup by somebody you never even met against someone else you never even met)If your thought process behind making a fangame is like that, I'd say don't bother. Its not worth making, and might be worth not making.
>>722479458The problem is that the most his impact can be is as a macguffin Flowey uses to become Asriel due to the plot of Undertale.
>>722479486Calling it now. He either still dies miserably, or Luna dies and he leaves with her soul.Why does the keep happening?
>>722480087>Kick the BucketI know the answer but the most I want to say about the endings was already said earlier for pacifist. I respect the team enough not to ruin anything big, and things are always subject to change
>>722480095>Yeah all your friends are long dead and your struggles were for nothingThat part depends on how long ago the character lived at first and what their struggles in life actually were. If they died less than a decade before the events of UT, they could easily reunite with their friends if they resurrect.And if their friends are dead, maybe you can have a short little scene of them being able to join them in the afterlife now that their soul is no longer jar'd, so they still effectively get their happily ever after.
>>722480352>maybe you can have a short little scene of them being able to join them in the afterlife now that their soul is no longer jar'd, so they still effectively get their happily ever after.That's not a happily ever after, that's a really shitty consolation prize.
>>722480095>Even their journeys and all the characters in it are unimportant since the game is ultimately about that soul ending up in that jar.Behold, the inherent problem with trying to make a prequel to UT centered around a bunch of characters who start off dead.Again, this is why Toby didn't bother focusing on the six human souls any longer than he had to, and just centered the game around Frisk and their journey specifically.If you're trying to make a *prequel*, it inherently has to tie back into the thing it's a prequel for at some point, and in this case that means the characters we're following have to die at some point, because they're all dead by the time the main story happens. If it doesn't tie back into the main story, then it isn't a prequel, and none of this matters, but these games *are* being presented and made with the purpose of acting as prequel stories, so that's just some real tough shit.
My hatred of canon grows stronger by the day.
>>722480447Well I have some bad news for you about life in general at that rate buddy.
>>722480564>If you're trying to make a *prequel*, it inherently has to tie back into the thing it's a prequel for at some pointIt doesn't. Especially not in a medium that's all about narrative choice and the player controlling the narrative. Sure it can, but it doesn't have to. We're following this narrative convention for no reason, and we have plenty of reason to break from it. So that's what we should do.You could also just not make it about a character who starts off dead. Wildfire need not be about that kid who died and got put in a jar. It could be the one human who fell and didn't get jarred or save the world. The one who survive, despite the odds. And not because he was the reincarnation of the antagonist's dead brother who also had super mega determination powers and also fell just at the right time, because he's the prophecied angel.>but these games *are* being presented and made with the purpose of acting as prequel stories, so that's just some real tough shit.That's some real tough shit for you. These conventions are just conventions. They don't have to be followed. You can just write a prequel story, but then give it a different ending anyways. If the story is better for it, then conventions should go.
>>722480609Its different for real life. For fiction you have to ignore the concept of the afterlife, because otherwise it completely trivializes any and all conflict the characters face. Even the threat of death is insignificant because they won't really die, they'll just go to heaven and be better off than when they were alive.The entire purpose of the afterlife as a concept is to defang death, and take away any stakes it might have. Some people view it as a good thing because of how good the afterlife is.Because of this, the afterlife as a concept is handwaved in fiction. That ending is essentially undoing that handwave so it can give you a cheap and easy consolation prize. That's what makes it shitty.
Something seems familiar here.And not in a good way.
>>722481342What, that we're having an argument over the nature of fiction again? I'd say this one is different since its not over whether or not its ok to have bad endings, but whether or not you have to make your prequel fangame follow canon.
>>722478293Who is she? What is her purpose?
>>722481094>We're following this narrative convention for no reasonPeople follow conventions because they can act like guidelines and make a story better. Sure, breaking away from them can be better for a story than rigidly adhering to them, but it can also completely ruin a story if you don't know what you're doing. Not saying it ruined the story, but look how many people got upset that the back half of UTY's story wasn't actually about going to save Kanako or any dumb bullshit like that, and that was instead a cover for Ceroba trying to take your soul for the serum project. That was pretty bold for a fangame's story, and people have never stopped giving them shit for it.>It could be the one human who fell and didn't get jarred or save the world. The one who survive, despite the odds. And not because he was the reincarnation of the antagonist's dead brother who also had super mega determination powers and also fell just at the right time, because he's the prophecied angel.Ah yes, so instead of it being about a super powerful kid who survived against all odds because they were the specialest little kid in the whole world, it's a story about a super powerful kid who survived against all odds because they were the specialest little kid in the whole world. Very subversive, you oughta get an award for this kinda writing.>If the story is better for it, then conventions should go.Yeah, *if* the story is better for it, and there's no way they'd be able to write it in such a way that it actually would be better for it. Having Riley survive for no reason and end up not actually being the orange soul seen in UT would be completely fucking stupid since it means their story is entirely irrelevant anyway, since they never mattered to begin with. It'd just be a dumb bait and switch with no payoff, and with the actually important orange soul being some random shmuck who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and got offscreen'd.
>>722481243>For fiction you have to ignore the concept of the afterlife, because otherwise it completely trivializes any and all conflict the characters face.That entirely depends on what the afterlife is like in the story in question, and what the actual stakes are in the living world. Homestuck handles the afterlife pretty well, with the upsetting part about it for the people there not being the fact that they're dead, but the fact that they've effectively been made irrelevant by the universe, which is a pretty irritating thing to have to contend with forever. That, and the fact that it's possible to escape the afterlife and return to the living world make the afterlife a pretty well incorporated concept in Homestuck, but that's just a single example.Arcanum also handled the concept of the afterlife pretty well, but it was also an extremely integral part of its overall story, so it basically had to be well written or else the whole game wouldn't work.
>>722481505>Not saying it ruined the story, but look how many people got upset that the back half of UTY's story wasn't actually about going to save Kanako or any dumb bullshit like that, and that was instead a cover for Ceroba trying to take your soul for the serum project.They also got mad because of where it did follow convention. A poorly written story is going to fail at everything it does. Its just amazing that UTY somehow managed to blunder its way into being liked at all. I'd argue that the Kanako problem never would have happened if they had also broken the convention of prequels strictly following continuity and existing for the original story's sake.>'s a story about a super powerful kid who survived against all odds because they were the specialest little kid in the whole worldNo, he survive despite the fact that he wasn't special. He sucked, but through hard work, determination, the help of his friends, and just luck, he managed to pull through despite that, a pull a fast one with fate itself. Frisk was the narrative's chosen one. The universe bent over backwards to give him the victory in every scenario. Riley would be the one playing against a game that's stacking the deck against him. Trying its hardest to do what you say it should do because "that's how it should be", and he only barely manages to survive by the skin of his teeth.>and there's no way they'd be able to write it in such a way that it actually would be better for iI disagree.>Having Riley survive for no reasonIt wouldn't be for no reason. Just no reason that comes from Undertale. UTW is its own game, it can make its own plot, and its own reasons for things to happen.> it means their story is entirely irrelevant anyway, since they never mattered to begin with.He mattered to UTW and to the player. Undertale is the irrelevant one here, because this isn't Undertale.>It'd just be a dumb bait and switch with no payoffThe payoff is defying the odds and beating fate.
>>722443471UT discussion was well on the way out by October 2018 because it was a finished game with no overt hints or hooks for a sequel, until the chapter 1 demo resparked interest in the franchise.UT and DR still get a lot of discussion because they are unfinished works with many speculation hooks, but UTY is a complete thing and it left no hook for anything after. It's not going to last forever unless someone picks up and keeps working on it (and delivers something good).
>>722481505>and with the actually important orange soul being some random shmuck who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and got offscreen'd.He's not important here, since he's not in Wildfire. And he's just as much a random off screened schmuck as he was in Undertale. But there's nothing stopping him from having his own adventure in another fangame about the real orange soul.That's what started this entire discussion. The idea that Riley isnt the orange soul that died, but Val is.
>>722481640Maybe so, but a Christian style heaven where you get to live happily ever after with your friends, in a story where the main conflict was "don't die" very much does trivialize things.If this were something like say JoJo, where the characters are fighting for a goal outside of their own survival then that would still work. But it doesn't work here.
>>722454496And that's a good thingNot all stories need ot be big and momentous
>>722481993>if they had also broken the convention of prequels strictly following continuity and existing for the original story's sake.So, why make a story set in the UT universe at all then? If you aren't going to adhere to the rules and limitations imposed by the original story, why not just tell your own story entirely instead of trying to fit within the universe?Don't answer that, rhetorical question.>He mattered to UTW and to the player. Undertale is the irrelevant one here, because this isn't Undertale.Correct, it's not UT, it's only a story being told as a prequel to UT and with the implicit idea that the main human character is the orange human soul seen in UT, and set in UT's world and with UT's rules and limitations and ideas and setting and all that, but aside from all that, UT don't matter one bit here.You see a problem with that, or should I spell it out some more?>The payoff is defying the odds and beating fate.Defeating gargantuan odds was already a theme of the original UT, and that aside, what exactly are you left with after the fact in UTW? In UT your reward for beating a godlike entity and befriending everyone was securing the freedom of an entire species, paving the way for all of your new friends to live new lives on the surface, and for humans and monsters to live in peace at long last. In UTW, if things go as you want them to, you'd be defying the odds and overcoming enormous hardship in the grand name of preserving the status quo, ensuring nothing at all changes for anyone in the underground, while you live in fear of being found out for the rest of your life in the woods somewhere.Boy, what a sweet victory. Is that what Riley stands for, rather live on his knees than die standing?
>>722482093>The idea that Riley isnt the orange soul that died, but Val is.Am I missing something? Are those two games actually connected outside of this place's wishful thinking? Was there an official collaboration announcement or anything like that?
>>722478265clovore
>>722482365>Don't answer that, rhetorical question.That's an underhanded debate tactic. Asking a rhetorical question when the other party may very well have a good counter argument to your point. Because I enjoy the characters, the world, the concepts in the world, and the telling stories in it more than I enjoy retreading the original story. That's why I'm playing and making fangames rather than just replaying the original game.>You see a problem with that, or should I spell it out some more?I was saying that UT's plot doesn't matter that much, nor do the characters introduced in it. Obviously they still matter, but they take a backseat to what's in wildfire, which really only has to follow the general rules of the setting, and even then its free to break those rules if it makes a better narrative. I think that bait and switch, and the metanarrative about defying fate is much more interesting than a retread of the "cost of victory" theme shown in UTY's ending. Which already wasn't that interesting.>Defeating gargantuan odds was already a theme of the original UTOnly superficially. Again, the game practically hands you the victory in all those "unfair battles" and in the difficult ones it frames you as the unstoppable force of entropy.>what exactly are you left with after the fact in UTW? Getting to live out your days happily with your friends despite the reality itself's best efforts to take that from you. Beating fate. That itself is the reward. Dying for some future progress is serving on your knees, because you're playing out the role the narrative has allotted for you. Standing up and refusing it, consequences be damned, to live your own life is the reward. Riley will live standing, rather than die on his knees.It works thematically too, since the story started with him trying to kill himself out of fear. Now he lives because of his bravery.
>>722482389No, its just a popular head cannon. This debate is moreso around the idea of Riley not being the orange soul that dies than any lore revealed by the devs of either game. And more broadly is just about how fangames should be written in general.
>>722482365I think you're getting a bit too heated over this anon. Its just a difference of opinion on fiction writing. I've been trying to remain calm and argue in good faith.I know that can be hard to do. In the last argument we had the roles were reverse, and I was the one arguing mainly from a position of emotion, and getting combative because of it. I had to admit that a story with that kind of ending is an acceptable thing to write even I personally strongly dislike it. Even if we can't come to an agreement, I'd at least like to keep this discussion civil and productive. For my part, I've been enjoying this. Its given me an opportunity to contemplate and condense my views on writing these kind of stories.
I said last week I'd try posting more frequent updates, regardless of how slow progress is. Since then, I managed to get overworld collision working, and I started on a map system. For now it can only draw prerendered backgrounds like the light world classrooms, no tilemaps or objects yet. The text boxes are fake (no interactables yet), they're just there to test out text drawing.Here's a showcase of basically everything thus far. Place your bets as to whether or not I'll actually have something playable by the end of the month.
Don't care about this flamewar over fate or whatever, I just want a /hmofa/ ending
>>722483565Frisk's sweater looks weird on Kris. Maybe you should try giving him the third human's clothes instead.
>>722483669That only happens if fate loses, anon. Riley is fated to die and Luna is fated to be a widow.
>>722483307>Because I enjoy the characters, the world, the concepts in the world, and the telling stories in it more than I enjoy retreading the original story. That's why I'm playing and making fangames rather than just replaying the original game.Bingo, you got the answer, but not what the answer implies. Wanting to tell a story within the pre-existing world of another story means you also have to be willing to be bound by the rules of that world, whatever that may imply. For the case of a story set up as a prequel to UT, that means you have to have your story end up in a way such that the story of UT could logically happen after the story you've just told, since your story's nature as a *prequel* inherently means the events of the story *precede* the events of the original story, which means that at some point the original story still has to be able to happen after it. That is literally the definition of a prequel, you can look this up if you'd like.>Getting to live out your days happily with your friends despite the reality itself's best efforts to take that from you. Beating fate. That itself is the reward.Okay, not necessarily connected to initial argument, but is "fate" or "reality" itself a major theme in UTW? Cause if so, that may just kill the game by itself if they aren't careful. I mean, there's no Flowey, right? He certainly shouldn't be here depending on when the game takes place, so if he's not acting as the major reality-bending antagonist, I don't exactly see how reality's going to be bending over backwards to try and stop you if there isn't actually anyone in particular with control over it. Unless it's Gaster, in which case this might be even more fucked.If the answer is none of the above, then by "fate" you actually mean "logic and reason", and at that rate, you're actually arguing in favor of an ending that actively makes no sense other than dumb wish fulfillment, and that doesn't make for a satisfying ending.
>>722483307>It works thematically too, since the story started with him trying to kill himself out of fear. Now he lives because of his bravery.So again, the ending you propose is "and so Riley lives happily ever after, having conquered his fears, until getting offscreen'd by some random monster at some point in the future and subsequently jar'd.". An open ending doesn't work in this context, because no matter what that open ending actually is, you always know it's not *the* end of his story, because, ignoring the existence of any other coincidentally orange soulled humans (and honestly, this idea never would have been brought up in the first place if there weren't multiple games being made about the orange soul, so we really should just drop it for the duration of this argument), the orange soul has to end up in that jar in the barrier room somehow, and leaving that open to interpretation would completely kill any momentum the story had.If he lives peacefully after the end of the story, then that means Riley lived an entirely uneventful life and then died, after which his soul was handed over to Asgore, in which case the story was all pointless anyway since that means he lived out the rest of his life in solitude waiting for the other shoe to drop. Otherwise, the other shoe drops, and the story is pointless anyway. Either way, the ending of the game effectively boils down to "oh the main character dies anyway, lol", which is the exact thing you yourself didn't want.If the game is meant to have the idea of bravery as a central theme, having the main character fuck off into the woods for however long they have until they kick the bucket doesn't exactly support that theme very well. It would be way more fitting for the story to end with the character's death, or the strong implication of a prompt death, since there's a greater opportunity to actually serve the theme justice, as well as fitting continuity, which again, as a prequel, it is implicitly trying to do.
A big part of why I'm having this argument is that I've always loved this idea of defeating fate. Breaking the intended progression and going my own way. Especially in video games.This traces back to a dream I had years and years ago. In it I was playing a video game, and I was in the opening segment. This was one of those games where you start out with a different protagonist, who's scripted to die at a certain point, so the plot of the game could start. And the place where he died was the the room that slowly filled with gas, and the only escape route was a pit filled with spikes that was too long to jump. Normally, you die here, and then later in the game you're new character is given the required items to be able to jump gaps like this. I think it was some kind of exo suit,But somehow, through exploiting a movement glitch similar to b-hopping, I was able to clear the gap, and save my character from the gas. From that point on, the narrative was completely changed. I escaped my character's fated death, and completely rewrote the story, all by breaking the game and doing something I wasn't meant to do.That dream has made me fascinated with the concept ever since, and obsessed with any media that covers it.Joo part 5, and of course Deltarune, the weird route in particular, really scratch that itch for me. And any time I see a force loss it makes me think of that desire to escape the scripted death. So when an Undertale game like UTY had a forced death that major, it really set my autism off. The frustration at which then inspired me to make my own fangame.So I suppose that means that in a way, that dream indirectly inspired my game. And it heavily colors my viewing of the Undertale series.
>>722483565What are you doing? a fangame?
>>722484121>And it heavily colors my viewing of the Undertale series.I don't actually have a whole lot to say about most of this, but I feel I should point out that fate isn't actually a particularly present theme in UT. It's arguably not present at all, depending on how you look at it.I mean, you might point out that prophecy that Gerson tells you about as a counter-argument, but that's actually not really an indication of fate either. The two interpretations of the prophecy in UT are that an angel will fall from above, and the underground will go empty. The problem with that is that the prophecy only really describes two (or arguably, none) of the endings. The prophecy is generally considered to describe the pacifist and genocide endings, (which again, may not really be accurate since the underground doesn't *truly* go empty in either ending) but that means the prophecy only applies to two endings out of the ninety-three endings you can get in UT, which means the prophecy is wrong more often than not, and by a lot.Plus, you can only get the true pacifist ending by getting a neutral ending first, but going back and loading your save to even get the pacifist ending is a conscious choice you have to make. The game doesn't force you to do it, you can leave the game alone after getting a neutral ending if you want to, and that means the prophecy would be wrong forever, since there wouldn't be anyone around to reverse the world into a state where it could be fulfilled again.Fate doesn't actually exist in the world of UT. Everything that happens in UT happens because someone *made* it happen, not because it was just willed into being or something. To that end, "defying fate" isn't really a theme of UT, so much as it's a theme of overcoming bad odds, which isn't the same thing as fate.Anyway, that's why I think "defying fate" is a bad argument for why a character should live, because what fate is there to defy?
>>722483789>Wanting to tell a story within the pre-existing world of another story means you also have to be willing to be bound by the rules of that worldSure, but only to an extent and I get to choose the boundaries of that extent. This is fanfiction. Its never going to be canon anyways, so I'm under no obligation to follow it, nor are any other fanfic writers. I only follow it as far as I want to.>That is literally the definition of a prequel, you can look this up if you'd likeI know the definition of prequel. I just don't think I have to follow that definition so strictly, or that I have to use that definition for my purposes. Maybe for the purposes of making a fangame I want prequel to mean a game that takes place before Undertale, but that can also overwrite the plot of Undertale should I want it to.>Okay, not necessarily connected to initial argument, but is "fate" or "reality" itself a major theme in UTW?At this point, the argument has shifted around such that Wildfire has become a stand in for prequel fangames in general, and how they could be written. With the fate conflict also just being an example of what they could do, one which I am admittedly very fond of.As for the specifics of it. It need not have any direct personification. From Riley's perspective it could just be a constant string of extreme bad luck. The worst possible things continuously happening to him with very little or no apparent connection to each other besides that he is perpetually in the wrong place at the wrong time. However from our outsider's perspective, we'd know this as the story pushing him towards his inevitable death. With the only representation in the story being the repeated sentiment by the monsters that he needs to die so they can be free, and that nothing he can do will save him.Over time he could come to view this as fate, but then instead of accepting it, openly reject it, and dig his heels in as he faces it.
>>722484087>So again, the ending you propose is "and so Riley lives happily ever after, having conquered his fears, until getting offscreen'd by some random monster at some point in the future and subsequently jar'd.Not necessarily. Maybe he never gets jar'd at all. Maybe it happens to someone else, maybe he's outright broken the timeline and now entirely new future will unfold. Maybe he lives out his days happily with his wife, which I would consider the best ending a character can have.The point of the open ending is that it leaves it to player to write the ending he wants. I always like open endings because they allow for the adventure to continue just as much as they allow for happy endings, and any other manner of endings.> Either way, the ending of the game effectively boils down to "oh the main character dies anyway, lol", which is the exact thing you yourself didn't want.Everyone dies eventually. All that matters is that they lived the life they wanted and enjoyed it. Dying after living a long and fulfilling life isn't dying pointlessly just become a footnote in someone else's story, its telling all of his its possible to tell, then making the soul plot a footnote in the story of his life.>ll. It would be way more fitting for the story to end with the character's death, or the strong implication of a prompt death,Not if it opens with him attempting to kill himself. That frames death as the failure of bravery. If his bravery is to triumph then he must not allow himself to die.>since there's a greater opportunity to actually serve the theme justiceThat's UTY's thing. This is not UTY, Wildfire is about bravery.>which again, as a prequel, it is implicitly trying to do.There's that strict set of rules again. I think you're too strict with the rules you place on writing. It strangles the creative freedom and prevents you from taking the story in unique and interesting directions.
>>722484782>Sure, but only to an extent and I get to choose the boundaries of that extent.Yes, you do get to choose how hard you want to adhere to the rules of the setting, but the further away from the established ideas from the setting you go, the less of a fanfiction it becomes, and it turns into a random story that's just kinda similar to the thing it's based on, and with some vaguely familiar faces here and there.>but that can also overwrite the plot of Undertale should I want it to.Then that's not a prequel, you're just making something else entirely and saying it exists in the same world as another story for no reason when in all honesty you'd be better off just telling your own story at that point. In other words, you've made Human Revolution.>from our outsider's perspective, we'd know this as the story pushing him towards his inevitable death.That's not really a theme of UT, that's more DR's schtick, and I think mixing the two is probably a recipe for disaster. Outside of the saving/loading being an in-universe mechanic, UT didn't really play around with meta-narrative stuff too much, and introducing that kind of thing where it really doesn't belong is a pretty cheap way of getting what you want here.>With the only representation in the story being the repeated sentiment by the monsters that he needs to die so they can be free, and that nothing he can do will save him.That's still not fate, that's the will of other people trying to railroad you into a particular outcome, which again, was also a theme the original UT explored as you've described.
>>722485234>That's UTY's thing. This is not UTY, Wildfire is about bravery.To serve the theme justice, not to serve the theme *of* justice. As in, to serve justice to the theme, to do the theme well. Reading comprehension.
>>722484531Fate exists in every game, really, because the only things you can do are pre-written by the developer in the game's code. All you can do is choose between a set number of pre-determined options. That is a kind of fate.>Anyway, that's why I think "defying fate" is a bad argument for why a character should live, because what fate is there to defy?The fate written in the canon. The fate of the characters established in Undertale. They must die so that Undertale can happen. That is their fate. And that's what you have been championing this entire time, Riley's fate, all the humans' fate. To die and be put in a jar.Defying and escaping fate, through the power of the medium of fanfiction, which is what they all exist in, is what I want to see. Canon is what's doomed them, but the very thing allowing them to have these stories is w hat can allow them to live. The ability to write a new fate, not bound by the confines of the original game.
>>722485468its 5:30 where I am. We have been having this argument so long that I've stayed up all night having it. My reading comprehension is understandably a little impaired, as is my ability to even see the letters on my screen. I didn't even see that "of".
>>722485520>All you can do is choose between a set number of pre-determined options. That is a kind of fate.And that's still never been a major theme of UT. Honestly, even DR hasn't seemingly gone that far with it, but we'll see how hard Toby feels like following in Hussie's footsteps.>Defying and escaping fate, through the power of the medium of fanfictionYeah, we're really besides the point now, huh? You're talking less about the idea of breaking fate, and moreso just being angry about a story having an implicitly determined ending by virtue of taking place before another game where certain specific things happened.Look man, I get it, you want the characters you like to live, I do too, but only within reason, and this is pretty firmly outside of it. You'd have to pull some pretty crazy gymnastics with the narrative to be have Riley survive for any decent length in the underground, let alone living out their entire life.For the purposes of UT's story, which, again, this game, as a fan prequel to UT, is inherently binding itself to, it makes way more sense and would honestly be the better writing choice for the story to end with the main character dying as a result of their actions and adventure through the underground. From a logical perspective, and a narrative one, it's the clearest choice. Sure, maybe you can say that's the biggest reason why that's gonna end up being subverted and I'll have egg on my face when the game comes out, but I think the more likely outcome is that the subversion'll be in the why/how of his death, rather than the if.
>>722485668It is also 5:30 am where I am. Look, unlike the argument we had about UTY so long ago, I think both of us can pretty clearly see that we aren't gonna be getting anywhere with each other here anytime soon.So, how about we call it a draw?
>>722485264>and it turns into a random story that's just kinda similar to the thing it's based on, and with some vaguely familiar faces here and there.I don't think the deviations I'm suggesting are that extreme. >Then that's not a prequel, you're just making something else entirely and saying it exists in the same world as another story for no reason when No its a still a prequel, just one that can break continuity if it makes a better story. And its not doing it for no reason, its doing it to tell a better story.> In other words, you've made Human Revolution.The problem with Human Revolution is two fold. One is that it doesn't want to be a Deus Ex game at all. Not it doesn't want to follow the lore to the letter, it doesn't want any of the lore. Its just an original cyberpunk game forced into the Deus Ex setting without much thought for making it feel in place. What I'm suggesting would still largely fit aesthetically, thematically, and chronologically. And its still at its heart an Undertale story. Its just willing to break frankly unimportant things like continuity for the sake of a good self contained narrative.An original unrelated story wouldn't be the same. It couldn't cover the same locations, the same themes, and the same characters when it wants to, and it couldn't exist as a direct reply to the original.>and I think mixing the two is probably a recipe for disaster.> it really doesn't belong >a pretty cheap way of getting what you want here.I don't think so. I think it can work and is distinct from Deltarune in that it focuses on us the player, and our knowledge of fate out of universe, rather than the inverse, the characters, and their knowledge of fate in universe, which really works best as a prequel to something that already exists and has an ending.
>>722485264>That's still not fate, that's the will of other people trying to railroad you into a particular outcomeIts just a representation of fate. The fate is the outcome the game is trying to push you into in order to comply with canon. And in universe its all those contrivances and runs of bad luck that keep pushing you towards death.
>>722485917>Yeah, we're really besides the point now, huh? You're talking less about the idea of breaking fate, and moreso just being angry about a story having an implicitly determined ending by virtue of taking place before another game where certain specific things happenedNo, I am talking about that. I think the idea of breaking the fate of a fictional story by writing fanfiction is cool. And I think that since Undertale is a game about being a game, it only makes sense that an Undertale fangame should be a game about being a fangame. Not only do I think its cool, but I think its narratively compelling, thematically relevant to the rest of the series, and could serve as a good lesson for other fanfic writers, that they don't have to follow canon to the letter if they don't want to, even if they're making a prequel.I am genuinely attached to this idea, even discarding the idea of UTW and all the other soul prequels retreading UTY's ending.
Stop flooding the thread with AI slop
>>722486102I think we've both said what we want to say on the subject. I'm gonna sleep now.
>>722486636That's not ai, that's just my raw, unfiltered, autism at 5 am.
>>722486178>No its a still a prequel, just one that can break continuity if it makes a better story.Buddy.>And its still at its heart an Undertale story. Its just willing to break frankly unimportant things like continuity for the sake of a good self contained narrative.>frankly unimportant things like continuityThis is the funniest thing I've read all night, god damn. Continuity *is* the story. It's the order in which things happen, it's *what* happens, and why. It's time itself, as far as a story is concerned. If you're breaking continuity, you're blatantly flying in the face of the original thing you're supposedly making a prequel for, which is a problem from the standpoint of making a prequel, because it can't be a prequel story if the story it's a prequel for inherently can't happen as a result of the events depicted in the "prequel". That's like if Revenge of the Sith released in theaters with the alternate ending from the video game where Anakin kills Obi Wan and Palpatine on Mustafar, and then they just skated past that like it was no problem. Not exactly a prequel if it inherently contradicts the definition of what a prequel is.>I think it can work and is distinct from Deltarune in that it focuses on us the player, and our knowledge of fate out of universe, rather than the inverseThe player's knowledge of what's going to happen, "fate", as you wish to call it, is still an extremely important element in DR's story, just not on the first layer of DR's story, so including this idea in another fangame would still effectively be retreading the idea, even if for a slightly different purpose.Honestly, I don't care to talk about this too much further right now, it's late.
>>722486728Nobody here is dumb or illiterate enough to not notice this crap.There's not enough mental illness in the world to explain away your bullshit.
>>722486825Other anon involved in this argument here, what the fuck are you talking about?
>>722486876The "other" anon that was going to sleep?
>>722487095No, the one who's been calling that guy's ideas stupid as shit for the last however many hours.Are you fucking stupid?
>>722487095Also, sorry, just to clarify, are you insinuating that a single person in this thread has been using AI to sockpuppet an argument with themself about whether or not it's a good writing decision to have the main human character die at the end of a UT fangame?If that's genuinely easier for you to believe than the idea of two people engaging in a flamewar, the most time honored internet tradition, the only illiterate dumbass here is you.
>>722487334I think he's calling us AI because we weren't calling each other trannies and niggers in single line replies over video game disagreements.
>>722487491Well, you probably shouldn't have replied, since now he'll look at us replying to each other as evidence of sockpuppeting. Anyway, you have a good night anon, but my night is far from over.
>>722487334>>722487491Is that why you "both" have suddenly completely changed posting syntax?
>>722487630And just like that, you've activated my trap card!With this card I force you to see how much of a fucking retard you are, sending your dumbass accusations straight to the graveyard!
>>722487706Anyone can pop open a private window nigga, (You)s are stored in cookies.
>>722487812Only private windows I have opened right now are the esix search results for UTY, and various youtube tabs, take your meds.
>>722487812Also, why the fuck would I be sockpuppeting an argument against *myself*? And not, you know, against someone else I'd be disagreeing with?Like, why aren't I using the other guy to call you a dumbass while I type this post, instead of taking you on by myself?Of course, someone else is probably gonna do that now that I've put the idea out there, just to discredit me, but my point stands.
>>722487879So you DO have a private window open then?
>>722488004Yes, for porn and youtube videos, and not 4chan. This doesn't help your argument.
>>722487997>why the fuck would I be sockpuppeting an argument against *myself*?Already explained before, you got mad, and you are trying to flood the thread with massive fucking walls of text that make it impossible to have a conversation.This has already happened.
i'm starting to think a certain janitor pet is behind this schizo freaking out about supposed ai spam
>>722488075>Already explained before, you got mad, and you are trying to flood the thread with massive fucking walls of text that make it impossible to have a conversation.So you're telling me that I got mad at someone, at some point, for some reason, and decided to have a big, AI generated argument, with myself, in an effort to tank the thread because of that?Damn, I'm getting invested in this, what happened next? Who'd I originally get mad at? Why am I using massive walls of text to try and ruin the thread, instead of just spamming lots of little posts to try and eat up the thread limit?Why did all the replies take so long to post when whatever AI I'm allegedly using should be able to generate big blocks of text practically instantly?Gee, the questions keep piling up!
>>722488361Okay, glad we're pretty much all in agreement that this guy's crazy, good to hear.I mean, if I wanted the thread to explode I'd just see if I could summon the pregnancy guy again, that seemed to kill some threads straight out for a while.
>>722488469i don't get why you redditors freak out so much about the most basic fetish shit possible, you fuckers sometimes act like its your first day on the internet
So, yellowfags, huh?
>>722488553Oh, I don't care about that, I actually like his stuff (on a technical level at least), it's just that there were a few threads in a row where very shortly after he made his presence known, the whole thread got nuked. This went on for like 3-4 threads one time, I'm pretty sure someone had it out for him.Anyway, pregnancy guy, if you're reading this, I'd love to see whatever new weird stuff you've made, you make some pretty good stuff.
>>722488672are you going to call your discord trannitor friends and get the thread deleted?
>>722488765You are unbelievably, embarrassingly, bad at what you're trying to do here.
>>722488765Wait wait, don't trans people usually like UTDR stuff, why would they be attacking us?
>>722488469>I mean, if I wanted the thread to explode I'd just see if I could summon the pregnancy guy again, that seemed to kill some threads straight out for a while.I don't think that killed any of the threads
Diet, Fashion and Exercise.
there really should be more kanacole smut
>>722475334She's quite cute
>>722490675>he's frowningwhat a fag
>>722483354the headcanon of Riley losing to Val in a tournament is really funny to me, it basically makes Val responsible for the events of Wildfire since Riley losing is what kickstarted UTW's story
>>722493558he's just gruff.
>>722482365>Boy, what a sweet victory. Is that what Riley stands for, rather live on his knees than die standing?The reason why I dislike the idea of Riley being alive after the events of UTW is that it paints him as a coward, he spent his entire life hiding and allowed the death of several children + the genocide of his species, is why the race traitor meme startedI'm fine with UTW having a non canon ending where Riley lives, but making that the canon ending would make Riley look like a coward
>>722457862>RECORDING STARTS >ENTRY NUMBER ## >## DAYS SINCE CONTAINMENT BREACH >The air hums—thick, wet, alive>Little white pulsating snowflake drift in the atmosphere >The ones that fall cling on to my skin, my robes>Soon they will spread through the rest of the Underground >Kanako is in there somewhere>I can hear her more clearly as I descend into the TRUE LAB >I clutch my staff as the elevator doors screeches open >A sea of impossibly shaped monster, nor solid, nor liquid focus their attention on me >But only for a moment T>hen they resume sulking about, tending the amorphous masses in the corners of the room >I hear her voice echoing through the vents >Mom…why did you leave me here?>I push forward, the floor sticks to my boots >I want to go home! >Do you really hate me that much? >The door is soft to the touch, but still the hinges scream>There she is in the center of the room >I fall to my knees and reach out for her>Not true. Mommy loves you lots! >Her body seeps through my fingers, pulling me deeper down >How much? >My love for you could shatter the barrier just on its own! >A wet, bubbling sound fills my skull >I can’t wait to see the surface, Mom >UNEXPECTED HALT X [WND/INCAP/KIA? Ref.a43d.3]>END RECORDING VIEW
writerfag taking requests for later
>>722496107Clover enjoying semi-consciousness with the SOULs until Frisk arrives.
>>722480337is luna a boss monster? or does she have enough DT for her soul to last?
>>722482389>Am I missing something? Are those two games actually connected outside of this place's wishful thinking? Was there an official collaboration announcement or anything like that?The best collaboration between Naranja and Wildfire would be a WWE 2K tournament where they let their OCs fight and stream the whole thing with a chat and everything
Pink!
i like martlet's speech beeps
>>722499772please tell me there is an explanation somewhere for like half of these
Deltarune Clover
>>722500031HOLY PEAK
>>722499925just type what you don't get and someone will likely answer
>>722499772tf was the jin incident?
>>722449110Almost certainly.
>>722501759I think that was just a meme they had on reddit where they would post Chujin's portrait with the caption "the jin" like how people sometimes refere to Ceroba as the roba
>>722501927well that's underwhelming
>>722503365>having a room temp IQ bird as a momsurely that'll go well
better than the fox
>>722506397Damn smug squirrel brat...
>>722482753I think I’m done visiting these threads now
>>722506397still haven't seen anyone do anything interesting with her on AUs or DRY takes>>722507008>he thinks that's too muchyou haven't even seen half of it kiddo
>>722493927That's why it should be true. Just edit the sprite a little to make Riley's opponent vaguely resemble him.
>>722506397
>>722495056I don't think that's cowardice if he's living for the sake of his monster wife. At that point its not cowardice, but a difference in priorities. Living with his wife is more important than killing Asgore to prevent some future conflict against humanity. And even then he's opposing it by keeping his soul out of Asgore's hands. Just have no other humans fall during his lifespan and the issue is sidestepped entirely.
Probably just eat some Nice Cream and drink until the memory fades.
>>722496847I'm just guessing here. I could see that being the twist for the "Riley lives" ending.
>>722496107Clover and Riley in a jobbing competition. Val shows up, does the thumb pose, and jobs even harder.
>>722478930best line in this image
>>722496107Either Roba drinks Chujin under the table during a night out, or Chujin and Roba are disqualified from Nose Nuzzle Champs due to their obscenely long snoots and Roba is outraged.
>>722479046>>722479486>>722480337Good endings don't necessarily have to tie back into Undertale's plot, and I'm not sure why prequels about the game where you decide what happens need to railroad the protagonist's untimely demise. With your power, all endings are possible in this world.
>>722509369That's what I've been saying. I had a whole novel length argument over that. I just hope fangame devs can learn that as well.
>>722483673Unfortunately, I don't intend to change this. It is primarily in reference to a certain theory about Kris (shoutouts to Gamejolt anon), and the particularly large discrepancy between LW/DW colours has always bothered me. The UT shirt makes the pallette change more congruous with the other lightners.Still, Kris with the third human's colours is an interesting idea. I'll try to draft up some palette swaps later so we can see how it looks.>>722484239Yeah. It's essentially a reinterpretation of Deltarune based primarily on debunked fan theories and unused content
>>722498665I always thought she sounded like a bike horn
>>722508245that's her after getting married to a nondescript human male
was ceroba's time spent with clover preventing her from locking in in her pacifist fight she powered up like 4 times but still couldn't match her sheer focused anger in her genocide fight
>>722510696Why didn't Ceroba pull the mask during the genocide fight? She would have been stronger than Zartlet
>>722511412She's stupid
>>722512575Also enraged because her best friend just died in front of her
>>722511412The mask is a representation of her fighting for the memory of her family. In genocide she isn't doing that, she's fighting out of rage.
>>722478469Is he steamcommunity.com/id/Rabbitthatlifts?
>>722510696Yeah, pretty much. In pacifist she spends most of her energy screaming and shielding herself while in geno she uses it to fire max hp reducing lasers because she actually wants you dead
Coming home to my wife and kid I love them so much
>>722513585starlo when's the next movie night
>>722513857starlo could never handle that
>>722513239Seems pretty obvious that would be him>Ceroba's HusbandLmao
>>722514147I think he could handle birbwife
>>722515125Eh I think despite what people say he's more likely to go for Ceroba. There isn't really anything bonding him with Martlet.
>>722513857Starlo is too old for Martlet
>>722496107Ceroba settling down with a human anon after moving to the surface.
>>722507869>Just edit the sprite a little to make Riley's opponent vaguely resemble him.Riley's opponent already has a sprite?
>>722496107This idea is partly based on that "Writing on the wall" theory, particularly the part where the DT extractor is theorized to have originated on the surface, but I wanna see a green about either the UT or UTY cast finally seeing the surface and finding out that humanity has gone completely extinct from using the DT extractors on each other as weapons of mass destruction.
I wonder if any female anthro characters from any other soul fangames will end up surpassing Martlet and Ceroba in any way.
>>722519434luna if she is writen well
>>722519638Hm, perhaps.She certainly strikes me as much more blatant furbait than anything in UTY, so that could give her a boost.
>>722519638>afraid of dying alone and forgottenoh you poor creature
>>722519434>I wonder if any female anthro characters from any other soul fangames will end up surpassing Martlet and Ceroba in any way.surpassing in what sense? having more fan art? no way, UTY will always be the most popular Undertale fangame by virtue of being the first full length one
>>722519638>>722520070I hadn't really invested myself in wildfire yet but that one line makes me hope it gets completed eventually
>>722508079yeah, that looks like wife material.
>>722516098his unrequited feelings toward her are unhealthy
>>722521948the fandom exaggerate this aspect of his character, he only shows interest in Ceroba when you kill him and when you kill Ceroba in the flawed pacifist ending
>>722523096martlet's not a pedo
>>722523670he looks pretty tall there, just assume hes an adult now.
>>722523830idk it still seems kinda weird if you know someone as a kid then date them once they're legal
>>722524609NTA, but I've seen some interpretations (mostly in fanfics) where Clover and Martlet where much closer in age during Clover's adventure through the underground, so maybe you could handle it like that.
>>722524609I think thats moral panic nonsense over imagined concerns, martlet isn't the type of person to groom someone. if clover was 20 and martlet 30, then oh noooo let them play ball. its also fictional so I'm a lot less concerned over the moral implications when I can just decide that in this story its a mutually respectful relationship.
>>722525240the problem is that clover is pretty explicitly a kid
>>722441153I mean, it's not a real game. So I don't care.
>>722525427ok cool so he grows up and gets with martlet when they're both adults like I said >>722523830
>>722481502>What is her purpose?Passing butter
>>722525240Source?
>>722525486>UTY never existedB-bros? What the fuck did we play? Did we hallucinate an entire fangame?
>>722483673Here's what Kris would like like with the third human's shirt. Also threw in a full palette swap with the skin tones.I'm sure things can be done differently to make it look nicer (eg. toning down the saturation as the colours are rather garish). But I think it suffices as a simple proof of concept
>>722526463found it https://x.com/XiaFei97/status/1963295815365267811
>>722496107Clover's soul appears before their friends (post UT true pacifist) to say one last goodbye, only for their friends to grab their soul and put it back into their body to resurrect them, which Clover is less than happy about.Maybe something similar to Epsilon being brought out of the memory unit in RVB, like being upset at not being allowed to finally die on their own terms and be at peace.
>>722526895kids gonna have to learn to deal with it, I dont think they'd be willing to hear it after they let him die last time and had time to stew on it. "nope, sorry kid you did good but you're gonna grow up right and proper this time no if ands or buts!"
>>722526775>That was the full picDissapointing
>>722527083I dunno, I feel like Clover may have some decent arguments after having spent so long in a jar for their friends' sake.And I don't wanna hear any arguments about their friends not wanting them to sacrifice themself to begin with, especially given how hard some of them tried to kill them for their own purposes.
>>722523670the apple doesn't fall far from the tree
>>722527464>I dunno, I feel like Clover may have some decent argumentsand the friends would have an even stronger argument that a kid isn't supposed to choose to die for a big cause, and now that the cause is over he's going to grow up a normal life away from all of that violence and like it. there's nothing for him to sacrifice himself for anymore, his friends learned their lessons about trying to take his life, and hell martlet ended the fight herself because her morals took over. he'll have plenty of time to move on to an afterlife after he's been given the chance to live a proper life, plus he can bring more justice to the world if he lives. kids getting a second chance at life, and he can pout about it all he wants but going and killing himself now just to argue with that serves no purpose.
>>722521885Or the cake will end up crazy!
>>722527464>>722527835and I really dont think they're going to "hear out his arguments" when there's no grand cause going on anymore, no danger or difficulty in keeping clover safe, clovers not winning this argument because they'res not going to be an argument, just a bird hugging him apologizing for failing to get him home in time for A dinner until now until he gives in. what, is he going to go sneak off to get killed by asgore? asgore doesn't fulfill those orders anymore.
>>722527835>there's nothing for him to sacrifice himself for anymoreOh, I'm not even talking about them sacrificing themself for something again, I just like the idea of Clover being super fucking pissed about having to be alive again after finally being at peace and being ready to move on after so long.A bit like that part of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer where Buffy's friends want to resurrect her because they think she went to hell when she died because she sacrificed herself to close a portal to hell, only for it to turn out that they forcibly ripped her soul out of heaven and earth is basically a lesser hell by comparison.
>>722519434If I get lucky and play all my card right, maybe one my characters could match Martlet in popularity. But there's not a chance in hell I'm beating the sheer level of brainrot Ceroba inspires in people.In terms of writing quality, I sure hope my characters do.
>>722519638>afraid of dying alone and forgottenI can already see the tragic death scene now.
>>722528135I kind of get what you're saying there, but I dont really think he had "moved on" considering he's been in a jar this whole time, and he has plenty of time to be dead after he gets to grow up nice and happy with his new family. if nothing else I think in the face of martlets guilt over letting him die, he'd probably at least peter out on the anger and begrudgingly, at first, accept
>>722528108>what, is he going to go sneak off to get killed by asgore? asgore doesn't fulfill those orders anymore.With the psychological shock of going from absolute nothing to being alive again in the blink of an eye? Hell, they might just kill themself if it's bad enough. I bet someone could write some pretty good angsty bullshit about that.
>>722520736I could see DRY Kanako surpassing her mother if DRYanon plays his cards right.
>>722527474>Molested Roba>Molested MartletHow many more has he (statutory) raped?
>>722528376If you really want to force it yeah but theres no reason that should be so shocking. its just like waking up from unconsciousness, people get startled from things like that they dont suddenly kill themselves. plus again, it wouldn't be just, he's absolutely lose the argument if martlet told him it wasn't just, and theres no way she's letting things go so easily on a second chance. its already a travesty that they cut out the scene where she gets dragged out by the royal guards in the first place.
>>722528370>but I dont really think he had "moved on" considering he's been in a jar this whole timeI moreso mean "moved on" in the sense that they'd have probably let go of most of their connections to the living world by that point. I imagine most of the souls probably stopped holding onto the living world after a while, which would probably explain why they're all so willing to go along with Flowey's stuff in the neutral route, since it's been so long since they've experience anything of any sort that they can probably barely even think for themselves.Frankly, even in the interpretation where the six humans get resurrected naturally after UT, I'd be surprised if they weren't just catatonic until someone found them.
>>722524609If it weren't for weird women, older women enjoyers would be cursed with eternal loneliness.
>>722525427You're explicitly a faggot.
>>722528665I think there's room for it if you want to write a story that way, but if he's in the state of mind to argue then he's doing well enough to be told to shut up and enjoy being a kid. maybe a lot more kindly than that
>>722526714>indian Kris
>>722528593>its just like waking up from unconsciousnessThat's assuming that's what being a soul is like in UTDR, and that doesn't necessarily appear to be the case.We know for a fact that souls can retain pieces of a human's consciousness by themselves, as we hear with Chara's soul after Asriel absorbed it, and as we see with the six human souls during Asriel's boss fight, so it's not out of the question the six human souls were basically experiencing complete sensory deprivation for literal years on end.For reference, permanent psychological damage is considered to be inflicted on a human being with minimal sensory experience after a period of roughly 3 days.So yeah, I don't think it's an unreasonable idea to say that the six humans may not be particularly enthused to be alive again, if that happens.
>>722528902>but if he's in the state of mind to argue then he's doing well enough to be told to shut up and enjoy being a kid.Yeah, either interpretation is possible, but also this whole replay chain started because I requested a slightly edgy green from that guy who told people to send him green ideas.I'm not saying it's definitively what would happen or anything like that, it's just an idea I wanna see.
>>722528962I think if it was complete sensory deprivation for the long periods of time it must have been since the oldest soul, that reaching them via act would have been like talking to a vegetable, but at the time time maybe its like an altered consciousness, partial consciousness so like a dreamlike level of sensory deprivation that would still have an effect but lessened to make it at least make sense how you could contact the souls at all. Im still sticking to my guns that martlet would absolutely not give in this time, considering her giving in on the rooftop the first time was a farce of writing.
>>722529120and thats why I've been not meaning to be a dick about it, but for discussions purposes I talking about how I think it would play out. Im sorry if that impacts how the anon fulfills your request if they do but what else are these threads for if not arguing about what should/would happen inbetween fangame updates
>>722529196>Im still sticking to my guns that martlet would absolutely not give in this timeYeah, I doubt any of them would be super willing to let Clover die again, especially after just getting them back in this context, but I'd be interested to see the exact ways they'd be thinking of it when Clover wants to die not as a sacrifice for a greater good, but as a means of ending an inconceivable amount of psychological suffering brought on by suddenly being brought back to life against their own will, as was my original green idea.I mean, in this scenario, Clover's friends would be much more directly responsible for the reason Clover would want to die, or return to being dead, so I think that might make them think a bit differently, even if they still want Clover to live.
>>722529669the sappiness of momlet aside, I think this would hinge heavily on her, we know she can just about move mountains when her resolve finally lines up with her morals, so I think she'd be the most persistent about breaking through even if she felt terrible about what the kid was saying. Ceroba I think would be torn between her guilt over how can she even argue with the kid when she let him have his way and die last time. kind of a "this is my fault after all" and for once the "its what he wants would be reasonable" but I think she'd eventually feed off martlet in this. Starlo would probably be dejected, something about how he regretted losing his deputy every day, and have a tough time rebuking the kid since he tried to kill him himself for purely selfish reasons. I think towards the end of it he'd probably fall in behind martlet in support of what shes saying. zenith motivation without the zenith since she's had years to stew on her mistake, how she betrayed her own sense of justice. she'd feel absolutely terrible about what this is putting the kid through , but I think it would be wind under her wings pushing her further, that dying may have broken the barrier, but it didn't make everyone happy. she's got it in her to be determined in this situation I really believe
>>722528296>Final battle with Mr Sunshine>Riley and Luna are fighting in perfect sync>Right as they're about to launch their ultimate tag team attack, Sunshine uses an underhanded technique to catch them off guard>He goes for Riley with an attack that will almost certainly be fatal>Luna jumps in the way>Instant lethal damage>She collapses and Riley takes her in his arms>He begs her not to go, and tries fruitlessly to use healing items on her>She smiles and thanks him, for not letting her die alone>She turns to dust> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaVnu3qgdPU starts playing>Riley stands up, tears in his eyes>Looks right at Sunshine, without an ounce of fear, and takes a step forward>Riley has reached level 19
>>722530240I don't think any other fangame will manage to pull off the "character gets multiple levels in one go" well ever again
>>722530237Yeah, I think that's a mostly accurate read on what they'd think, but I'd be most interested to see how that'd influence their actions moving forward. Regardless of how determined Martlet and the rest may be, the hard part for them is keeping Clover afloat, and depending on how bad their state is, they could potentially kill themself the second they're out of eyeshot. Then again, that would require the composition necessary to even wait for them to be left alone, and maybe they aren't so lucky. I could see Clover being in a similar state to that guy's kid at the end of "The Jaunt", where the experience fucked him up so badly that he starts screaming and clawing at himself the instant he's able, no restraint or composure whatsoever.Maybe Clover was in that jar for longer than you think, eh?
>>722447840birds don't have pits............
>>722530912It doesn't have to be him gaining five levels. Just the one that pushes him over the edge and shifts the balance of the battle. Though I don't think it will ever be as impactful as that first time, since now its been done before. That's why the level is really more of a side piece to the rest of the stuff in the green.
>>722530982to be fair jaunt is orders of magnitude more than what clover would have gone through. jaunt is like endless time to the point where time loses meaning. I do get what you're playing at though comparing to jaunt. I think if it was that bad, there would be no saving him, or even really getting him anywhere. I just prefer my post timeline stories to have a ray of hope at least, even if he's a mess, giving up on life and all that, the ray of hope that one day they can help him appreciate life again goes a long ways. our boy deserve at least that much
Can we just acknowledge how ridiculous Mr. Sunshine's stats are?68 ATK & DEF easily makes him one of the strongest monsters we've encountered behind Toriel/Asgore. Also he mogs Zartlet.I wonder if the Wildfire devs will incorporate this into their own game...
>>722530240honestly even if the LV up was done before in yellow, this still feels solid. like an appropriate situation for that to happen>>722531270I think its more evidence for the "stats we see in check aren't completely real" theories
>>722530240>>722530912>>Riley has reached level 19I can't help but think Val would kill Luna if he met Riley and knew killing her would make Riley reach lv19Like in those greentexts where Goku kills Videl to make Gohan give his all
>>722531249>I just prefer my post timeline stories to have a ray of hope at least, even if he's a mess, giving up on life and all that, the ray of hope that one day they can help him appreciate life again goes a long ways. our boy deserve at least that muchOh yeah, I can have a soft spot for dumb wish fulfillment stories where everyone lives too, but I think the reason I wanna see this idea in particular is because most UTY post-game stories tend to be much more on the hopeful side, and there are very few stories out there where things are completely fucked.I want Clover to get their happy ending too, I've even argued for post-UT resurrection myself a few times in these threads, but sometimes I just wanna see things on the other end of the scale.That's also why I requested that green of the amalgamates acting like the Flood in an earlier thread, I like taking largely tame things and injecting completely fucked up things into them to see what happens.
>>722531270The stats in UTY are the actual stats used in the game's calculations, so you shouldn't compare them to UT stats, otherwise Muffet also mogs Martlet in AT stat
>>722531534>Like in those greentexts where Goku kills Videl to make Gohan give his allNTA, but those fucking whats?
>>722531270Those certainly are final boss stats. At least his AT and DF. He could use more HP.I've got this idea in my head, based on absolutely nothing, that will almost certainly be disproven when Wildfire comes out, that Mr Sunshine is sort of like a phoenix. Every time you kill him, he's born anew. So the one we see in the stream is the next Mr Sunshine, the one that came after the one we see in Wildfire, and that's why he's not as evil or as strong.>>722531341>I think its more evidence for the "stats we see in check aren't completely real" theoriesThat may be so, but they could still be used as his real stats in Wildfire. It would make him a very formidable foe.
>>722531851>but they could still be used as his real stats in Wildfire.honestly considering the impression this picture gives me Im all for it
>>722531534It wouldn't even be that, it'd just be "I heard you're pretty strong" followed by her getting insta dusted.The Naranja genocide route is going to be hilarious. You just know.
>>722531758The PSYCHOku greentexts from /dbs/ they are really insane and the entire point of them is exageratting Goku's love for fighting
>>722532158Got any examples on you?
>>722531947>HP permanently reducedDoesn't Roba have that ability too? Do you think there's a connection? Like its the same technique or something. Maybe learned from the same place,
>>722531686thats understandable. I just got done putting together a story idea for happily ever after on the surface with some difficulties along the way with the first roadblock being spending time dead had an effect on clover, so i'm probably being extremely biased here but I do get what you're after here. like that green one anon requested of soulless clover getting revenge, its edgy and painful but its interesting
>>722532327thats only in the genocide route right? I like the tough fights but I cant bring myself to overcome my autism for these characters and actually go do the fights this time around.
>>722531249Also, even if things in this scenario (somehow) end up okay, and Clover gets rehabilitated and is able to even partially enjoy life again, I also just like the idea of scenarios where it's not necessarily a black and white issue as to whether or not letting Clover die was/is a good thing. I also really like it when someone gets saved/resurrected by their friends, only for there to have been a pretty good reason for them to have not wanted that to happen, and be angry as a result.That's what I wish happened in that one fic, "1000 Years I Love You", where Clover and Kanako are resurrected in a special facility built especially for them 1000 years after the events of UTY, and are being taken care of by their "friends", who are actually just collections of the UTY cast's memories made animate by an AI construct. I feel like Clover should've been way more pissed about being brought back to life against their will in a world where all their friends and everything they've ever known is completely gone. Well, everything except a few certain people, that is.>like that green one anon requested of soulless clover getting revenge, its edgy and painful but its interestingGuess who requested that one too?I may have a problem.
>>722532773while I can't fully relate to your specific desires, I do understand the heart of having such fixations. godspeed anon. I think myself Im fixated on the idea that a child should not be making a decision like that in the first place, so all of the stories reanalyzing how the 3 would have acted on the roof based on what we know of their personality, or how they would act on the surface again informed by what we know of them. I especially like when theres a huge barrier of issues at the start, baggage over having killed themselves, issues with being dead and all that, but that theres the hope of "people around them who truly care".I think i've had this fixation since undertale since the idea of people dying and coming back to life with memory of that death tickles my autism just right.
>>722532221I tried looking for them but I can't find them, there is too much shitpost in /a/ archive that use the keywords related to those greens
>>722528834fuck off clover is for kanako anyways
>>722532773>where Clover and Kanako are resurrected in a special facility built especially for them 1000 years after the events of UTY, and are being taken care of by their "friends", who are actually just collections of the UTY cast's memories made animate by an AI constructIsn't that the ending to the movie AI?
>>722533520Hear me out, what if Kanako was five years older than Clover?
>>722533126>I think myself Im fixated on the idea that a child should not be making a decision like that in the first placeI can certainly understand that from a rational standpoint, but I don't think I've ever really held the same viewpoint myself.I guess in my case I'm really good at putting myself in other people's shoes, so it's easy for me to ask "if it were my choice, would I do it?", to which my answer is a resounding yes. Honestly, my answer probably would've still been a yes even when I was around Clover's (implied) age, but that's an issue for another life.Above all else, something I really value on a personal level is agency, so while I certainly appreciate it when other people want what's best for me or someone else, I think the person those feelings are held towards should ultimately have the final say, at least if what they're doing is for a greater good. All of this adds up to me being somewhat irked when someone is forced not to go through with their self sacrifice, or is otherwise forced into doing what's best for themselves when they very much want to do the opposite for whatever reason. A healthy mindset, I know.I guess the closest example of that I can think of in media would be that scene in Doctor Who where the Master is dying in the Doctor's arms, and the Doctor is begging him to regenerate so he can survive and so the Doctor can keep an eye on him, and the Master just says "And spend the rest of my life imprisoned with you?", and lets himself die just to fuck with him.
>>722534089>Isn't that the ending to the movie AI?No, because things aren't happy for Clover and Kanako in the fic, and things aren't stable for very long.It's actually a decent read, creative liberties and lack of justifiable meltdown aside.
>>722534236Nta, and I largely agree with your sentiment, but I draw the line at children. If an adult wants to kill himself and he's really sure about it, that's tragic, but there's nothing I can do. If a child wants to kill himself, its my and everyone else's duty to stop him. If he's still sure once he's old enough to be making decisions for himself, then that will be that, but he's not doing it right now.
>>722534236>I guess in my case I'm really good at putting myself in other people's shoes, so it's easy for me to ask "if it were my choice, would I do it?"I think I may have briefly talked with you before. my issue in those stories is that often times people can have blinders on in their decision making, and what they adamantly believed was the right choice, could be far from it. Noble sacrifices are cool as hell so I do get you, and the idea of that being spurned would really suck, but I keep finding myself going back to the thought of "there's no justice in a child dying, even for a good cause. I know i've come back ot martlet in this several times but I think its part of what fixated me on her, I think that would be her overall aproach since she seems to value individuals over collective ideas like how she wanted to give a human a chance despite everything she was taught. I also agree with the other anon >>722534491the fact that clovers a kid changes it for me. kids get wild ideas in their head about how they can change the world, do the most do the best do everything all the adults cant do, but like martlet said about how clover deserves a violence free life away from all of this, and I think its telling that in every single ending that martlet offers that to clover, he tries to take it. he wants to change the world, but maybe he needs something else, to just get to be a kid that doesn't have to kill or be killed. he doesn't get that chance because of space time fuckery, so I that draws me even more to stories that give that life to him, hard won just makes it better because then it doesn't JUST feel like wish fulfillment but an actual conclusion
>>722534173there's a difference between two kids and a kid and a grown-ass woman
>>722534491>but I draw the line at children.That's fair in the real world, but in a world like UT's where kids are already making massive, world-altering choices by themselves like it's nothing, I think the standards are slightly different there.It's like how no one in the real world would send a child to fight an armed terrorist planning on killing a bunch of people, but sending Gohan to fight Cell was actually a fairly reasonable decision in the context of the world of Dragon Ball Z. (Yes, it was a reasonable decision, Gohan was the only one powerful enough to beat him, he just needed that extra push with his emotions.)In a world where individuals can wield powers capable of turning the world on its head, those individuals become the arbiters of their own fates. They have a responsibility to use their powers for good. If those individuals happen to mostly be children for whatever reason, as seems to be the case in the world of Undertale, so be it.They will be who they will be. They are their choices, and they chose to try and lead the world towards something better, regardless of what became of themselves.
>>722534173
>>722535086Can't you just imagine this as AU adult Clover then?
>>722535204>but sending Gohan to fight Cell was actually a fairly reasonable decision in the context of the world of Dragon Ball Z. (Yes, it was a reasonable decision, Gohan was the only one powerful enough to beat him, he just needed that extra push with his emotions.)but even goku has a moment of "oh fuck I failed as a father" when piccolo points out how gohan is out there just getting beat down wondering why his father let this happen, and in uty theres an undercurrent of "children bearing the weight of decisions greater than them" with what happens to kanako. its understandable where you are coming from, but the nature of clover being a kid dealing with shit he shouldn't have to be is really hard for me to ignore, and if he came back to life I think that would be forefront on the guilt each of his friends that let him die had. especially with "we weren't even there in his final moments" frisk himself also accomplished amazing things, but I think thats why one of my favorite aftermath stories for regular undertale is where frisks new family is dealing with the consequences of letting a child go through all of that, toriel facing the fact that she didn't show up "just in time" because frisk went through untold trials even before she showed up, or even sans dealing with the consequences of not actually watching out for the kid at all.
>>722535204>Yes, it was a reasonable decision, Gohan was the only one powerful enough to beat him, he just needed that extra push with his emotions.Goku...On a serious note, no decisions ever made in DBZ are reasonable. Those characters are all incompetent, malcontent, and selfish to an absurd degree.>They will be who they will be. They are their choices, and they chose to try and lead the world towards something better, regardless of what became of themselves.No, I won't let them. I'd tell him that I'll destroy that soul to keep anyone from having it if he kills himself.
>>722535242And she looks ten years older due to DT related physical changes
>>722535663>when piccolo points out how gohan is out there just getting beat down wondering why his father let this happenIn Goku's defense, that was before Gohan unlock SSJ2, so that was just part of the extra push Gohan needed to beat Cell. Once he reach SSJ2, the only problem Gohan had was not stopping Cell from readying that attack to blow up the earth, but things were mostly fine after that.>the nature of clover being a kid dealing with shit he shouldn't have to be is really hard for me to ignoreYes, it's certainly a sad situation, but it's merely the result of circumstance. No one else was coming into the underground any time soon, and even if they did, there's no way of knowing their intentions. Clover was in a position to make things right, or at least contribute towards making things right in the future, and they did. They had the power, they had the responsibility.
>>722535405that's fine, I was just going off normal uty
>>722535964did the integrity infection also increase her bust size?
>>722535785>no decisions ever made in DBZ are reasonable.I think Goku choosing to stay dead after Cell was defeated was pretty reasonable. The reason for why he did that changes depending on the translation, but generally speaking, him being gone did reduce the amount of bullshit happening on earth by a pretty considerable degree.>I'd tell him that I'll destroy that soul to keep anyone from having it if he kills himself.And what would be the point of that? So no one gets to be happy? Think about it, in the context of UTY, you really think Clover's going to be happy living with people who threatened to destroy their very soul if they tried to give it up for their "friends" sake? This sounds like a good recipe for disaster, maybe make them change their mind on their sacrifice and monsterkind in general. I think I'd be pretty pissed off if that was the response I got for offering to do such a selfless act, even as a child.
>>722535984>In Goku's defense, that was before Gohan unlock SSJ2, so that was just part of the extra push Gohan needed to beat Cell. Once he reach SSJ2, the only problem Gohan had was not stopping Cell from readying that attack to blow up the earth, but things were mostly fine after that.the point isn't that goku wasn't right about how to defeat cell, it was that the burden a child was having to go through was still pointed out loud and clear in that world as well. and this kind of ties into the second part of what you said, but just because something is the "right" answer doesn't mean its ok. could there have been another way? maybe maybe not, probably not, but from the perspective of the adults there, it doesn't matter if there was another way. clover was a child, if he wanted to make that choice he could make it after they had done their damndest to give him a proper childhood. maybe their choice doing that would have been wrong in the grand scheme of things, but in the scope of "what do you do when a child wants to kill himself" its cut and dry. clover was in a position to make things right, and it wasn't his responsibility to do so, so his death shouldn't be tinged with happiness with the song "gift" playing, its a horrible fuck up tragedy that the cast should have realized in that moment, but realistically if the trials of the day had made them not realize it, then they should have come to in the coming weeks. they had the power, but they did not have the responsibility, it is never a childs responsibility to bear the weight of the world even if they have the chance to. clover had the opportunity but the burden should have never been a given, not something that an observer could tell him "you have to take this shot kid sorry". Kids lack perspective in a lot of ways, this is why we dont let them make a lot of choices until they are older
>>722536014Yes, determination is stored in the breasts.
>>722535964
>>722536292>and monsterkind in general.if all of his friends already trying to kill him once didn't make him feel that way, then one trying to use force to explicitely save his life wouldn't do that. it would probably complicate things but if he could make the choice to spare ceroba after all of that, he's not going to think "oh monsterkind actually deserves to die because now this one is threatening force to attempt to keep me safe". at worst he'd think the person doing that was misguided and try and sneak away to asgore
>>722536461If thats the case, then why is Undyne flat?
>>722496210>PAT: Let’s play a game of I spy!>INT: Girl for the last time! We can’t even see anything in this room.>PAT: I thought about it this time! What if we just use our IMAGINATION?>BRV: Well that’s just stupid! There’s like a million things you could just come up with.>KIN: Could you two please stop giving her a hard time?>INT: And what you gon’ do ’bout it?>KIN: Absolutely nothing, but the only thing we have left in this small dark room is each other. Least we can do is show a little kindness to one another.>PRS: Well there is one person that knows how this room looks like.>JST:…>BRV: EARTH TO CLOVER!>JST: Sorry, I was just drifting…>PRS: Thinking about your friends, again?>JST: Yeah.>INT: Tsk, what kind of friends lets you->KIN: Integrity >INT: Uhh…I mean it must be nice. Knowing that someone out there is waitin’ for you. Hopin’ to see you again.>PAT: I sure hope no one is waiting on me.>PRS: And I just know no one is waiting for me.>BRV: Same boat.>JST: Now, don’t you go spoutin’ off like that. We’re all still pals, aren’t we? Remember all the things we said we’ll do once we’re outta here?>KIN: You tell ‘em, Clover. >PAT: Friends forever!>The clang of iron boots rings down the hall.
>>722534769Her boobs shouldn't be so big for a picture that's supposed to be wholesome
>>722536572>if all of his friends already trying to kill him once didn't make him feel that way, then one trying to use force to explicitely save his life wouldn't do that.Maybe it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. I'm not saying they'd go on a genocide or anything after an interaction like that, but I could probably see them deciding that monsterkind was probably put down here for a reason, and decide to try and go fight Asgore with much more determination to take the five human souls with him and leave.Like, "if this is how you people react when someone tries to help you, maybe you shouldn't be free after all". Not a terribly uncommon sentiment throughout history, mind you.
>>722536292>I think Goku choosing to stay dead after Cell was defeated was pretty reasonable.No, that was stupid too. Just because strong guys show up to fight him doesn't they don't also just show up to kill people anyways. And we saw throughout the whole series that Gohan was not cut out to be a fighter. >And what would be the point of that? So no one gets to be happy?Its a threat to ensure he won't do it. If he knows that committing suicide won't achieve the result that he wants then he won't do it.> Think about it, in the context of UTY, you really think Clover's going to be happy living with people who threatened to destroy their very soul if they tried to give it up for their "friends" sake? This sounds like a good recipe for disaster, maybe make them change their mind on their sacrifice and monsterkind in general. I'll put it in terms a moralist like him will understand. The monsters benefiting from his death is an evil act, so I can't allow that to happen.
>>722536461sorry, meant for >>722536060
>>722536804it doesn't come across as lewd, sometimes women just got a large chest
>>722536808>here for a reason, and decide to try and go fight Asgore with much more determination to take the five human souls with him and leave.I've seen a lot of reason in some of what you're saying, but I REALLY dont see this one (assuming you're the same anon). it would be really clear that this monster is doing it for his sake, and in the pacifist route we know hes an empathetic kid. I think this one is reaching too hard to make the story edgy in a spot that its not reasonable
>>722536632compression top
>>722536416>in the scope of "what do you do when a child wants to kill himself" its cut and dry.Yeah, but that's not the position Clover was in. Clover wasn't just sacrificing themself because they were tired of life or something, they were doing it for the sake of liberating an entire race.It's not a question of "what do we do when a child wants to kill themself?", it's a question of "what do we do when a child wants to kill themself for the sake of saving an entire species that may or may not be fucked otherwise?".
>>722536796>>BRV: Same boat.Luna, no!
>>722536926Nah I don't buy it. The artist went out of their way to include it. Plus even her waist is sort of curved to accentuate her details
>>722537101when you're an adult, and a kid wants to kill himself, the reason doesn't come into the equation in any way other than finding out how to solve the root problem without the child killing themself. this isn't about whether the kid is suicidally depressed or not, its about a burden that we dont let kids take on for a reason.
>>722537263in>>722534769this? nah, she's got big ol armored bird titties sure but the image doesn't exude that kind of energy
>>722537263We don't have to give characters breast reduction surgery just because they're doing something that isn't sexual. Zartler canonically has big tits that means she's going to have them all the time.
>>722536804Martlet canonically has big breasts, and having a large chest in an image doesn't take away from the wholesomeness.It just depends on the context and how the artist portrays Martlet in the image. It's the same with Zenith, who's usually drawn having an even bigger chest. The bigger breasts doesn't make the image lewd.Prime examples:https://files.catbox.moe/le8ckp.pnghttps://files.catbox.moe/dlyvn5.png
>>722536825>Just because strong guys show up to fight him doesn't they don't also just show up to kill people anyways.The Saiyans came to earth because of him, Frieza heard about the dragon balls on Namek because of him, Frieza came to earth after Namek because of him, and Cell and the Androids were explicitly created to kill him.Even though there are still some strong evildoers on earth after Goku's gone, none of them even compare to what was happening before until Babidi showed up to release Buu.It's sad, but Goku made the right call at the time.>And we saw throughout the whole series that Gohan was not cut out to be a fighter. Yeah, but we also know the other Z-fighters are capable of handling things on their own, and even if Gohan isn't as strong as he could be, he can still help protect the earth when it comes down to it.>Its a threat to ensure he won't do it. If he knows that committing suicide won't achieve the result that he wants then he won't do it.No, it just means they won't do it around you. Nothing at all stopping them from sneaking out to Asgore's castle while you aren't looking and giving up their soul to him right then and there. You'd almost literally have to be keeping them prisoner in order to keep them away from going through with it if they're driven enough, and pretty much every human we've seen in UTDR, including Clover, is an extremely determined little freak, even if it's not enough to give them time powers.Clover wanted to sacrifice themself pretty badly. They were willing to take Martlet's offer in neutral, but they're firm in their beliefs by the end of true pacifist. If they were more willing to try and live their life when they only had Martlet versus when they had Starlo, Martlet, and Ceroba wanting them to stay alive, I don't think anything was going to be stopping them from doing what they believed in at that point.
>>722537519This 100% Martlet having a large chest doesn't automatically make the image lewd.I really like the wholesomeness shown in these images.Both the affectionate side and concerned side of Martlet/Zenith respectively.
>>722537304In ordinary circumstances, yes, but in a context like these, things are far from ordinary.How's about this, if a child can prevent the detonation of multiple nuclear devices planted in civilian populations around the globe by taking their own life, is them doing so of their own volition evil? Are the people who benefit from their decision evil?It's a burden no child should have to bear, but that's not the question here. The fact of the matter is that this child has to make a choice, and they've decided to do what they think is right. Should millions of people around the globe be allowed to suffer and die, all for the sake of a single injustice?No. It's a sad situation, but the fault lies with the ones responsible for creating it in the first place.In the context of UTY, the real fault lies with the humans who sealed monsterkind away in the first place. They are the true perpetrators of this injustice.
>>722537364>>722537416I don't have official designs to compare with this but picrel is a lot closer to how I expect Zartlet to actually look. The Zartlet of >>722534769 is just too much. I just think it comes off as dishonest when you pretend something isn't sexualized when it clearly is.>>722537519Anon, this is from the same artist who made an image set where Clover gets unbirthed by Martlet and Ceroba. Also he's blushing in the first photo. It's clearly implied to be seuxal.
>>722538138>I don't have official designs to comparehere, mart has some bust which is more than roba (even if roba's concept art has her with a pretty large bust)
>>722538138>I just think it comes off as dishonest when you pretend something isn't sexualized when it clearly is.You really need to stay off twitter, anon. That place has warped your perception of sexuality. Just because someone has attractive features doesn't make something lewd.
>>722538258Yeah, her side profile doesn't have as much of a bust as people think. The armor would probably compress whatever large breasts she has anyways. Also she has literally no waist in her first form for some reason
>>722537906circumstances are irrelevant. things had only gotten so bad because of the failings of the adults of society across generations, monsters being sealed underground, asgore declaration of war, failing to spot what was wrong with his own 2 children. you say the child has to make a choice and Im saying that choice is not the childs in the first place. a kid does not have the right to choose to kill himself, and the adults , yes they weren't his parents, or even the same species, but when they came to care about him they should have stepped in and stopped that. it should have only happened in a situation where clover snuck away to asgore or something like that but it is in no scenario "clovers choice". he did end up making the choice but that is just another in a long long line of failures that the powers that be had committed. you ask if millions should have to die, I say a child should not make that choice, you say its a sad situation and I say its beyond that, its incorrect from top to bottom. its not even about good and evil, its about the entire purpose how life grows adapts and passes that information on to the next generation has been failed here because clover should not have been willingly allowed to make that choice, and thats all put aside from the fact that martlet at the very least would not have given in so easily. the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many, thats absolutely how martlet would think in this situation, and she should have challenged clovers sense of justice with her own, having a different version of her boost in confidence from the genocide route, but a more loving one to reflect the route change. even ignoring how much you've upped the ante with the nuclear situation, the child being forced to make that situation is a failure on every level, every degree
>>722538138The drawanon who draw those images was requested to draw a wholesome scene between DTY Martlet and Cole.The image in question has no lewd stuff involved, and the reason Cole is blushing, as described in the request, was because Martlet is unaware of human customs.Thus something which she considers normal, because she's a monster, isn't normal for Cole.While the other images made be lewd in nature, the bathing images are wholesome, and Martlet was drawn with her actually body proportions.Again just because Martlet or Zenith has a large chest, doesn't make the image lewd.
>>722537017>it would be really clear that this monster is doing it for his sake, and in the pacifist route we know hes an empathetic kid.With the response that guy I was replying to was proposing, I think it'd be pretty easy for Clover to see that more as a hostile rejection. Like, not even trying to reason with them or appeal to their emotions by telling them how much you want them to stay, just straight up threatening to destroy their soul to make their sacrifice pointless if they try and go through with it. That's a pretty fucking extreme response, especially when souls appear to be plug and play and you could probably just put their soul back in if you don't want them to go through with it.Even if that didn't profoundly alter how Clover views monsterkind and whether allowing them to interact with humanity again is a good idea, I really doubt it would make them do what you want. They'd either do what they can to prevent that monster from stopping them before they sacrifice their soul to Asgore, potentially by heading to Asgore directly, or their thoughts on monsterkind would sour and they'd resume their initial mission of getting justice for the five humans that came before them. That was still part of their motivation for getting through the underground, even if it was much weaker and ultimately discarded by the end of true pacifist. I could see an interaction like this rekindling their determination to see that mission through, and I bet Flowey'd be more than willing to help them out if it came down to it.
>>722537586>The Saiyans came to earth because of him,And they would've came even if he died. Raditz still had every intention of exterminating humanity and selling Earth after he was done with that big job he needed Goku for, and if anyone mentioned the dragon balls to Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa would still have come as well.>Frieza came to earth after Namek because of himFrieza came to Namek because of Vegeta and Nappa finding out about the dragon balls, and even if he weren't there, he still would have been going around exterminating races and blowing up planets. Its because of Goku that he stopped.>Cell and the Androids were explicitly created to kill himBy a scientist who worked for the Red Ribbon army before he met Goku. Gero still would have been making evil killer androids without Goku.Then there's Piccolo and the previously mentioned Red Ribbon army, who would have been doing their thing even without Goku's involvement. And Buu, who still showed up even though Goku was dead.Staying dead accomplished nothing except putting the whole world in danger.> but we also know the other Z-fighters are capable of handling things on their ownNo they aren't. All they do is die one by one until Goku shows up.>nd even if Gohan isn't as strong as he could be, he can still help protect the earth when it comes down to it.Every time Gohan was left in charge of defending the Earth he screwed it up royally.>the rest of thatI think he could have been convinced if the others actually tried to talk him out of it. They just didn't bother.
>>722538138your minds all twisted on the matter, throw it out start from scratch here man. martlet is drawn as a sexy person in a natural way, not lewdly. if a chick with large tits leaned down to give a kid attention its not an inappropriate scene. this is the consequence of a society without skinship
>>722538787nta but c'mon dude, those images have lewd undertones
>>722538793>I really doubt it would make them do what you want.yes I said in another post that I think it would make them sneak off to asgore, but saying it would make him change his mind on monsterkind? No, I'm 100 percent out
>>722537906>if a child can prevent the detonation of multiple nuclear devices planted in civilian populations around the globe by taking their own life, is them doing so of their own volition evil? Are the people who benefit from their decision evil?Yes. A necessary evil maybe, but it is evil.>In the context of UTY, the real fault lies with the humans who sealed monsterkind away in the first place. They are the true perpetrators of this injustice.The monsters could have lived their lives in the underground peacefully. It was entirely their choice to kill 6 innocent children for someone else's crimes.The humans that sealed them underground are guilty, but so are the monsters that killed innocent children out of revenge.
>>722538896Outside of Martlet large chest, there isn't really any lewd undertones in the image, as the image was specially drawn to not be lewd but wholesome.If you see the image as lewd for some reason, that's on you. Heck the Zenith image has being concerned for Cole's well being.There's literally nothing lewd about that.
>>722527474Why does he dance like that? Who is he hoping to attract?
>>722536796>Remember all the things we said we’ll do once we’re outta here?I'm choosing to believe they did all those things after the post-pacifist revival.
>>722538757Circumstance is relevant, nothing exists in true isolation.Clover had the power to improve the lives of countless people, and in their eyes, that meant they had the responsibility to do so. If you have the power to do the right thing, don't you have the responsibility to?In the specific context of UTY, even though the death of a child is a sad thing, it was ultimately the right choice in their circumstance, and it was their choice to make, given that they had the power to do so.
>>722539210>If you have the power to do the right thing, don't you have the responsibility to?no
It's time...https://files.catbox.moe/cwhejm.png
hope you are adding nuzzling with monster girls in your fangames>>722539350
>>722539404Are they in a closet...?
>>722508530>be me >commit suicide >meet an odd guy while being SOUL trapped >tells me he tried killing himself multiple to avoid becoming a jobber>he just like me fr>asks me if I want to help him with his redemption arc >yeah sure buddy as soon as we become resurrected>we come back to life >ditch my “””””””friends“”””””” that convinced suicide was the answer >go through a complete season of filler episodes where we learn the importance of friendship, love and perseverance™>it’s our first plot relevant tournament >a 2v2 match >the first guy arrives late and his teammate doesn’t even show up >GG EZ>he unmasks his robes>it’s mf Mike Tyson>I tell Riley we should just forfeit>he goes on a monologue about how we can win if we just believe in ourselves for once >he charges into the ring>Mike Tyson one taps his neck >ohshit.mp3 >out of nowhere a different guy I vaguely remember show up and points his thumb at himself >says his Val or some shit >goes into the ring while putting a bandana on >Mike Tyson bites his ear off>I raise my hands to forfeit but get uppercut instead
>>722539018>but saying it would make him change his mind on monsterkind? No, I'm 100 percent outWho's to say? We know for a fact that multiple different routes of the game happen according to Flowey, so it's possible in some of those different runs Clover thought very differently about monsterkind by the end of each of them. They certainly do by the end of genocide, and although it's not canon, that does still mean Clover is capable of deeming an entire species worthy of that kind of destruction according to their character.With that in mind, I really don't see it as being out of the question for Clover to decide that maybe freeing monsterkind isn't worth it, and act accordingly.
>>722539210I fundamentally disagree with you, it is not a childs responsibility to do anything other than grow up healthy and strong and learn from their caregivers/elders. moral questions come into play as obligations that children must fulfill other than learning the difference between right and wrong, learning how to lead a good life, learning skills to help in that and so on. as soon as you ask "shouldnt a kid have the obligation to choose this fucked up thing" you know the situation is fucked from the get go. every system that SHOULD be in place has failed that child, the people that should be there for that kid have failed them, and now they are having to make that decision, a decision even adults would have trouble with, with only a fraction of the lifetime experience an adult would have to weigh it against. it is fundamentally wrong for a child to be in that situation.
>>722539441that's the nuzzling contest platform toby showed in the anniversary stream, did you not see it?
>>722539486>Who's to say?me, and every other monster clover experienced that was hostile to him but he still decided to have mercy on. you can have clover have full knowledge of what axis did and him get to ceroba and still spare her life. if this is pacifist clover then he probably judges the undergrounds actions as "not guilty by way of duress" which is a very fair judgement.
>>722539350Man, wouldn't it be ironic if I rolled Ceroba after how long I've been defending letting a child kill themself for the greater good?
>>722539350I once again, am praying, hoping, and humbly requestingbird wife
>>722539404>no one has made nuzzling gif with riley and luna yetdamn
>>722539271Well, guess that figures.To each their own, I suppose.Guess we each all have different ideas of justice.
>>722539350Martlet or Zenith. They both deserve it every time.
>>722539692No one can seem to settle on what Luna's sprite actually is
>>722539728while you are discussing with multiple people, I dont even think its one persons responsibility to bear the weight of the world on their shoulders, but I think its very reasonable and noble for an adult to make that decision. its when its a kid that I am absolutely adamant that no it is not their responsibility or duty to suffer that just because its a duty hoisted upon them. honestly that type of thing in the first place is how we get duties getting put off and not taken care of in the broad sense.
>>722539350Martlet no question.
>>722539857the latest ones are this and >>722478640
>>722539918It's pretty funny how her design changes every time she gets some new artwork
>>722539654>>722539350one day I will get the bird of my dreams
>>722539589>you can have clover have full knowledge of what axis did and him get to ceroba and still spare her life.You can also have Clover know everything about what Ceroba did and decide to put her down.Clover's capable of mercy, and of being merciless. I think Flowey may genuinely have had a point about the yellow soul representing judgement instead of justice, because justice is an entirely subjective concept that can't be objectively determined or measured, whereas judgement makes more sense for a soul to embody. Everything Clover did was based on their own judgement of the situation they were presented with, including their decision to give up their soul, as we see when they spend time thinking about the idea (and magically teleporting to the opposite side of the balcony what the fuck) before they decide it's time to go.The fate of the underground depended on them, and they made their choice. With how hard they adhere to their beliefs, I think trying to shake them from their course would've been a fools errand, potentially with bad consequences.
I am quite fond of ceroba
>>722539350Momlet. So Martlet.
soon
>>722539894>honestly that type of thing in the first place is how we get duties getting put off and not taken care of in the broad sense.In the real world, yes, people saying "the kids are the future" is responsible for lots of present day issues, but in the context of UTY, there literally wasn't any other way for the situation to be resolved that didn't involve at least a few children dying here and there. Frankly, the weird thing about all this is how Toby insisted that all the fallen humans were all children. Every single one.Really, if Clover was just slightly older, like around Kris' age, this wouldn't be as much of a problem.
>>722540116yes which is why I said in pacifist route instead of flawed pacifist. if this is the scenario where we are talking down clover from giving up his soul it is by default the pacifist route, that version of clover has gone through all of their friends trying to kill them, gotten over it, and decided they needed his soul more than them. that clover is not going to suddenly decide monsters = bad because of one going off the rails to try and stop him from giving up his soul. its out of the question. other route clovers are indeed a different possibility
>>722539350Either flavour of Martlet, Zartlet or normal.
>>722540089Might want to try this on a different board then (if you're going for dubs)Zartlet is damn near impossible to get on /v/ unless you have perfect luck or perfect timing
>>722539350All I want is a Martlet, is that much to ask?
>2/6 requests done before bump limit grim
>>722538669>Also she has literally no waist in her first form for some reasonShe does, its just concealed by her clothes. The armor cuts off at her ribs, not her waistline.
>>722539350Martlet of course.
This thread was pretty good, lots of good discussion towards its end.So, are we going into overtime this weekend?
>>722540342when I post zartlet, I mean either version of martlet truly because the potential to be such a person is in both of their hearts. it is simply a matter of determination
>>722540384Which ones are you planning on doing next?
But what if Ceroba met King Von?
>>722540303then fuck resolving the situation. Martlet ceroba and starlo should have dug their heels into the ground and refused to budge even if it meant being stuck underground because that would have been much more in character for them by that point of the story, and the right thing to do as the adults in the room. it wouldnt have ended well most likely with flowey and asgore (but really the royal guard is all kind of pushovers but still) , but just because there was a solution doesn't mean it should be a given that clover takes it. he is a child, it is out of the question that he be allowed to kill himself for the greater good.
>>722540539I'm doing them in the reply order
>>722540591what the fuck is this reddit nigger shit
good thread
>>722540591God bless this community
I want you to know sacrifice anon, that while I sincerely do not agree with your view on the matter, it was an enjoyable discussion for this weeks thread
>>722540312I don't think they'd go and start a genocide run on a dime, or even necessarily think that monsters are "bad" specifically, I just think it's possible in that scenario that they may come to think that monsterkind and humankind are better off separated from each other, given that interaction. This is the most fucked up comparison I can think of, but it's a bit like how some historical racists were genuinely of the opinion that other races were fine in their own right, but needed to stay separate from each other.Depending on Clover's origins and background, that kind of mentality may be easier for them to reach than you think.
>>722539350>>722540356fuck, I'll try it again
>>722540748Thank you, I also had fun with this thread.I still do kinda wanna see that green idea of Clover being pissed off about being revived though, I could see some fun chemistry with that one.
>>722540786>they may come to think that monsterkind and humankind are better off separated from each otherI can not reconcile with this belief. if it is a clover that was willing to spare ceroba after all she did then it simply does not make sense. you are ignoring how heavy it would be for them to make it past the barrier of sparing ceroba after that fight in the first place. if they make it through that, then the rest is a given.
>>722539350Ah hell, let's see if I can get lucky this time.
>>722540848remind me next thread
>>722539350Martlet all the way.
>>722540927Sure, whenever that is.No one answered me before, are we doing a second thread this time? We have some good energy here, I think we could give it a try.
>>722541001i'd be down to try this time, currently waiting to see if I have tomorrow off work as its kind of shit watching a thread go through its second half while you can't obsess over the bird in it.
>>722540907Maybe, but I really feel like that threat the other anon proposed would be a pretty big shock to their beliefs after all they've been through.At the absolute very least, they'd still try and go through with their sacrifice, probably by cutting out the middle man and committing suicide-by-Asgore.
>>722541062You think that's bad, try studying while a threads ongoing. I haven't gotten too much studying done today.
>>722539210>If you have the power to do the right thing, don't you have the responsibility to?No. That's entirely optional. Especially if "doing the right thing" involves killing myself.
them
Well, I can try and get a new thread up in just a bit, pretty sure my /v/ ban status is clear.Last time I checked.Gimme a minute, it'll probably be linked to in the /vrpg/
>>722541120>they'd still try and go through with their sacrifice,I do agree with that part, and clover sneaking off to asgore fixes a lot of the problems with how the sacrifice plays out in a lot of scenarios, I think though with the handhold scene in steamworks with ceroba and clover, that her betrayal was about as big of a shock to his system as it gets for a kid like that.>>722541187I've been extremely slowly trying to comprehend how to draw, and in the free time i've had today I haven't done jack fucking shit so at the very least I can relate a little.
ROBA NUMBER ONE
FLOWEY WAS HERE
>>722541359>>722541339jumping the gun just a little bit there
I'M MAKING A CALLOUT POST ON MY TWITTER DOT COM SAYING THAT FLOWEY IS A BITCH ASS MOTHERFUCKER
Creating human-monster hybrids...
>>722541402DIE.
>>722538793A hostile rejection born from genuine care for him. Its clear the person making those threats cares and desperately wants to keep him alive if he's willing to do such drastic things to ensure it.
300 seconds until I can make a new thread.Think this thread'll last that long?
>>722541402SHUT IT BIRD
LAST POST FOR THE STRONGEST
>>722541464she lived bitch in my heart
>>722541465"I want to keep you alive against your will so much I will destroy your actual soul just to make sure you stay alive"Yeah, okay.
>>722541516you wish, redditfag
saving the thread
>>722541538I'm sure you've melted her heart as well
>>722541545its not a healthy thing to say, and wont endear clover to that person, but I think that if he can forgive every other psycho thing that happened to him, then he can forgive that as he sneaks away to asgore, thinking that being the burden of "just" choices is great or something
>>722541438Kanako deserves a fluffy tail
>>722541645>how it feels to chew 5 gum
>>722541578killing the thread
>>722541282Maybe, maybe not.Guess it all depends on the kid's judgement.>I've been extremely slowly trying to comprehend how to draw, and in the free time i've had today I haven't done jack fucking shit so at the very least I can relate a little.I also have things to be drawing both for here and for myself.I also have made little progress on these things, although I do only have one last request to finish before that's done, so maybe that'll be done soon.
Kill Kanako. Behead Kanako. Roundhouse kick Kanako into the concrete. Slam dunk Kitsune into the trashcan. Crucify filthy Kanako. Launch Kanako into the sun. Stir fry Kanako in a wok. Toss Kanako into active volcanoes. Piss on Kanako's ornate japanese boxes. Judo throw Kanako into a wood chipper. Twist Kanako's head off. Report Kanako to the Shrine Maiden's Council. Karate chop Kanako in half. Trap Kanako in quicksand. Crush Kanako in the trash compactor. Liquefy Kanako in a vat of acid. Eat Kanako. Dissect Kanako. Exterminate Kanako in the gas chamber. Stomp Kanako's skull with steel toed boots. Cremate Kanako in the oven. Lobotomize Kanako. Mandatory abortions for Kitsunes. Grind Kitsune fetuses in the True Lab. Drown Kanako in fried corn. Vaporize Kanako with anti-matter. Kick Kanako down the stairs. Feed Kanako to Japanese Bears. Slice Kanako with a katana. Exorcise Kanako. Seal Kanako away for thousands of years.
>>722541739no
>>722539451keked. you should write all your greens like this
>>722541739the bird may be my favorite, but I deny your inhumanity!
>>722541672Yeah, but it certainly won't have the desired effect, was my point.
>>722541739rude
>>722541796SILENCE BRID YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
Get on board the thread kid, this thread's about to blow!>>722541817
>>722541798yes I agree with that much at least
>>722541739Integrity...
>>722539350Rolling
>>722541875>making anotherFor what reason? It'll just limp along with someone bumping it for some reason.
>>722541884she is foxy now
>>722542005We had some good energy tonight, I'd say it's worth a shot.
