When did you realize that it was a better experience than Silksong?
>>7225860532016
Silksong is better for those that don't suck at video games.
When I got to hunters march and had to deal with diagonal pogos. The game doesn't even become remotely good until act 2 when you actually get real upgrades.
>>722586053Silksong has a better gameplay but everything else like setting,NPCs,lore and crest system are worse than HK
>>722586407I too am too stupid to figure out a 45 degree angle and too lazy to switch to a crest with a down slash. This game is soooo unfair.
>>722586626In other words, the things that make a game stick with you are better in Hollow Knight.
>>722586407>when you actually get real upgrades.wtf does this mean? where did this narrative come from?? i dont get it. I needed to play the game as long as, till the end of act 2, where ive done most of the side shit, to actually realize that the game isnt that good.It was Act 1 and Maybe Early Act 2 where I still thought the game was mostly good, just a bit annoying in some respects.I dont even remember the "Act 2 upgrades" because all the upgrades in this game are shit, basic, or literally fucking redundant and result in nothing new. So the dozens of crests and tools you find count for this, but even the grappling hook, is literally just another horizontal moving movement ability (that doesnt even need to grapple onto anything) to compensate for the dash not being as rigid as in hollow knight, and having more of an arc at the end when you fall to the ground. Not to mention how the movement upgrades completely trivialize platforming. I had to force myself to not dash, unless necessary, or not hook unless necessary (without using some shitty gimmick speedrun strat tier crest bullshit) just to make the platforming more engaging, and even then, you only get like 1 to 3 screens of straight platforming in an average level throughout the game, and theyre all EXACTLY THE SAME "pogo above some spikes" shit as since Act 1, except sometimes the Pogos are a slightly longer distance from eachother so that you have to use the float ability or grappling hook.I dont understand how anybody who has this experience can come away feeling that Act 2 is WHEN the game "gets good".
Funnily enough the most fun moments of the game for me, was everything leading up to the grappling hook ability, was the one time I felt i had to think with exploring and how to get to an area beyond mindlessly hitting walls. Because I had to figure how to raise the elevator without being in it, and to do that, I had to be cognizant enough to realize there could be something below the elevator. Its not genius or anything, but requires more steps and deliberate thought than randomly hitting walls and accidentally stumbling into hidden entrances covered by the foreground art.
>>722586053When I realized Sands of Karak wasn't going to open up into the Coral Forest area teased in the trailers
>>722586053I realized silksong was better when I discovered there aren't any dogshit dream warrior fights
>>722587391>>722587486yooo imma copy and paste this in all silksong threads to trigger the silkies
fromdrones don't understand the concept of fun, they see other people playing videogames and they get into videogame by osmosis, but they don't understand what makes a game fun, that's why they get stuck in a recursive loop of difficulty, that's why they can't be argued with
So we starting the "First game was better" phase?
>>722588987Based
>>722586053Silksong's the better game, as in gameplay. Feels better to move, jump, fight, actually interact with the world.But when I finished act 3 in Silksong I immediately knew that nothing from the game will stick with me the way HK did.It's a bit like Arkham Asylum vs Arkham City, City is the better game technically but everything in it just blends together into a blur while Asylum is vastly more memorable and interesting.
>>722589365Silksong is better from a gameplay standpoint, but Hollow Knight is the better overall experience.
i tried playing hollow knight a few years ago, and bored quit because its shit. Played silksong on release and finished it 100% in the week. Then I went back to try hollow knight 1 again and boredquit after getting a bit further because it fucking sucks.
>>722589165I think youre being dramatic, and racist and bigoted for no reason, when the obvious fact is that most of reddit is white balding 30 year olds and cat ladies, and reddit is very much the target audience of games like hollow knight. The "I hate difficulty in all games but just love this (dark souls, hollow knight) soooo much because peopel couldnt stop talking about it, so i pushed through and fell in love with the art and characters (never talk about gameplay unless it has been narrativized into a youtube video) oh the freedom and interconnection, i love those so much, even though i have no idea what those words mean or why its good in the context of this game."I probably agree with your implicit though. Although I will go even further and more radically, and argue that Difficulty is NEVER EVER the problem with any game ever. At most it could be argued to be "balance" but even then I think that equally vague and arbitrary.
>>722586053I realized that it's worse than Silksong after I replayed it immediately after finishing Silksong
>>722589165take your seething elsewhere, shazamfaggot
silksong's setting and story just isn't very good, there I said it. the first game has a better atmosphere. Silksong just feels like it's trying to make the same game again without as much sovl. I'm not saying it's a bad game, it's just more or less the same game but harder and with a less interesting setting / story.
>>722589165They see shit like the spam of arenas, bosses having a last hoorah which can make you redo the fights and trapped benches and they clap like seals. I said it time and time again that this is a sequel to the Gods pantheon or whatever its called, not to Hollow Knight. I think its somehow the devs way of punishing players because they kept asking them for the game to be released., which i don't get. If you don't want people to look forward to your game then don't fucking hype it up
>>722586053When I saw "LOST LACE" as the final boss and realized what a hilarious downgrade it is. Imagine going from the absolute kino of Sealed Vessel > Radiance into yet another rematch with the tutorial boss who got stomped in every fight.
>>722586053I tried to like HK but I can't. The jumping feels horrible, the hold to heal by 1 feels like a chore. But the worst is the exploration, which is not rewarding and instead punishes you for picking any path unless you accidentally manage to choose the "intended" path to progress, so there's a lot of backtracking from dead ends. I don't know why HK is so popular. Even the music is pretty forgettable. Silksong on the other hand is a great game. I don't know what to make of it but I wouldn't believe you that the same people that made Silksong made HK, the quality (outside of visuals/animations which are fine in both) difference is unbelievable.
>>722586949Silksong tries to emulate this moment at least 3 times and fails miserably every time
>>722586053But it just wasn't.I stopped HK for years.
>>722589950Lace as a whole is one of the biggest problems with the game. Shit character and underwhelming boss.
>>722586407I was surprised to find out people were resorting to changing crests to get through there
>>722589840Trapped benches were fun though.
>>722589569>oh the freedom and interconnectionEvery time someone says this about Hollow Knight I want to dissolve them in a vat of acid.
>>722589970>I don't know why HK is so popular. Even the music is pretty forgettable.Are you deaf?That OST is possible the GoAT.
>>722589970>But the worst is the exploration, which is not rewarding and instead punishes you for picking any path unless you accidentally manage to choose the "intended" path to progress, so there's a lot of backtracking from dead ends.>Silksong on the other hand is a great game. I strongly suspect you're a shitposter who never played SS, because you'd never shit on HK for poor rewards and backtracing while praising SS for avoiding those problems, because SS has infamously bad rewards and even more backtracking.
SSgawds mog and WONHKtroons LOST and got raped
>>722590216>Shit character and underwhelming boss.Eh, as a proponent of the fact that Silksong is not actually a good game. Lace is actually the one and only truly well designed boss in the game. Mostly here 2nd encounter, but sure she could generally be considere good still
>>722590138Nah Skong mocks HK moments like that a lot.
so hollowknightfags are just the Reddit trannies who got filtered by a hard game again?
>>722590452Exactly what I was going to say. It is genuinely insane to shit on HK for shit rewards and praise the bloated retarded mess that is Silksong dishing out worthless crests and tools for managing to remember to check and old area you mentally logged. And I havent even talked about the random scrolls and shit you find, because at the very least with this bead economy, theyre more generally useful than a bajillion tools and crests you dont need, and will realistically never all use.OMG the more i lurk these silksong threads the more I think I need to release my silksong essay thread.
>>722590402maybe you understand me then. which is rare, because its a very generic gamer who watches video essays perspective to think "freedom and interconnection" are gameplay virtues in and of themselves.
did /v/ cry this hard about celeste or any other game being difficult? why has this one specifically assbroken you guys so hard?
>>722590734I think you need to the kill yourself irl unironically
>>722589970>But the worst is the exploration, which is not rewarding and instead punishes you for picking any pathExploration in HK is like 3 times as rewarding as in Silksong lmao
i realised this when I woke up this morning and decided to be a contrarian on /v/
>>722586053It's slower therefore worse.
>>722590506Lace has the typical Team Cherry issue of "the actual boss moveset is shit, you need to watch out for her randomly teleporting or dashing into your model and dealing contact damage"
>>722591207That definitely is an issue here, but its much worse with virtually every other boss, and its a gamble she'll do it, once, also theres an almost full proof way you can avoid getting hit even when she jumps, also helps that unlike most bosses, she doesnt have a giant hitbox and loads of "fill up the screen aoe attacks", Yes she has her like sword column thing, but thats the only time I ever used dash in my fight against her.Basically the base level way a fight can be understood as good in Silksong, is whether you can avoid using dash for the majority of the fight, and yet still find and create openings for yourself, and the fight doesnt consist of mostly dodging giant hitboxes, dashes across the entire screen, and AOE attacks.It doesnt guarantee a good boss fights, but it is a necessary condition of a good boss fight.
>>722590452>I strongly suspect you're a shitposter who never played SS, because you'd never shit on HK for poor rewards and backtracing while praising SS for avoiding those problemsPicrel, I have 50 hours in Silksong. In Silksong, no matter what path I pick, I always find something. A boss fight, a new tool, a crest, upgrade to health or spool. If something was not accessible the game didn't let me wander for billion hours to a dead end gated by something I didn't have at the time (ability, key), if something was gated, it was very obvious either right away, or by the start of the next screen. In HK you start with a dozen possible paths forward, but only one is correct, and it's not obvious which one. I had to constantly do very long backtracking. Exploration is fine, but not in the way HK does it, in this unfocused way that has no intent put behind it. You can create a maze level with 5 long labyrinthine platforming segments with 4 dead ends and larp it's such a "freedom" and exploration but no, it's just shit design.
>>722589950>>722591207radiance is a shitty boss fight. it's just platforming and dodging projectiles. lost lace was one of the better fights in the game it felt like a duel just like all of her encounters. I was disappointed with there being no phase 3 or final fight involving grandma silk but what we got was very well made. she doesn't randomly teleport, she telegraphs where she's going to erupt from the ground along with the various abyss fissures.This board is like bizzaro land, everything I read here makes no sense and is completely backwards.
>>722590506I mostly agree but it feels unrealistic that the boss knows that they have collision damage and they cancel their attack and let themselves just drop on you for no reason. It feels really gamey and gotcha at times especially when the boss is very small like Lace. It does add difficulty but why is the boss doing it? I guess you can call it a non-diegetic attack.
>>722586053Both games are trans-coded.
>>722591584never underestimate the power of autistic mentally ill terminally online retards that are also shit at videogames and watch jewtube video essays
>>722591584It doesn't matter that Lace is the better duel mechanically. It is beyond pathetic for the grand finale of 3 acts to be a repeat of a bratty tutorial boss you already trounced twice without much problems. It's like finishing a Zelda game not to fight Ganon but a random moblin miniboss you already farmed repeatedly.
silksong would have been far less divisive if TC just released it as the originally intended DLC a year or two after, instead of trying to turn it into its own game.
>>722590461>t.
>>722591584>it's just platforming and dodging projectiles.Which makes it far more memorable than beating an annoying tutorial boss again
>>722591852if we're talking purely about lore then yes I agree I feel grandma silk, or the haunted thread as a concept should have been involved in some way. when I beat lace and the ending played I said aloud "that's it?"
>>722591952why are you posting your selfie?
>>722586407>I had to deal with the game mechanicsNo shit nigger>>722586053Overall, yes. Silksong is the better game. But in story and atmosphere, the original is better.
>>722592017>why are you posting your selfie?
So which one are you?
>>722591584Because act 3 is so bad, most of the bosses are dogshit spamming 1 ranged attacks, only a few bosses are good.LL is the ultimate disgrace, no I don't find it fun to fight a reused boss as a true final boss, especially when her new attacks are the most generic shit done, with black attacks on black background. This is terrible, but not unexpected when you see that the abyss is a fucking glorified corridor.
>>722591695Yes, im not disagreeing with you on any of these contact damsge criticism, its actually most prominent in my opinion with enemies in hunters march the first time I played, Id just stop pogoing, because sometimes theyd do this weird random jump up attack that does nothing other than hit you. Its just another one of the ways the game narrows enemy interactivity.Enemies have every single convenience possible in this game. They throw aoe projectiles, if theyre too far from you theyll dash into you, or burrow under the ground and pop out under you, they will spam a consecutive of 3 to 5 attacks that cover almost all the space around them so that not only are there no openings of attack, but even if you parry all the attacks, they will either jump back so you cant hit them, or whatll happen is that their consecutive attack will push them forward so that if you try to parry all of them, they will hit you anyway with contact damage.BUT lace only has one of these problems (arguably two, since her dive attack that can be parried sort of has the contact damage problem) and gives enough ways to damage her when she commits too hard.Trust me, if a boss can be fun without using dash, then theyre doing something right.The combat is generally unbelievably flawed, like unbelievably, so much so that im convinced team cherry does not know how to design games, and the only reason this wasnt figured out with hollow knight, is that its largely simple enough and more forgiving health wise that its harder to realize.
>>722586053In the Citadel, after reaching the next area after Choral Chambers. Because it made me realize the promise of "Pharloom is a LIVING world and way more opulent and crazy than Hallownest!" was a lie, the rest of the Citadel was the same half-dead dreary world design as anywhere else. All the other vaults and vents and rooms were all the same lifeless shit as the Citadel's exterior and it didn't feel like a grand opulent place at all.Pharloom was the same shit as Hallownest in terms of liveliness except colored in light brown color instead of blue, except Hallownest had the excuse of being a graveyard.
>>722592178now we're back to arguing about mechanics. lost lace is great mechanically. calling her reused is a retarded and disingenuous. the fight is completely different while involving references to her early forms like the parry mechanic.
>>722591584>radiance is a shitty boss fight. it's just platforming and dodging projectiles.Funny, I actually agree despite hating Silksong more. Infact, when I played Hollow Knight and was almost done the game I deliberately took a break towards the end because I "knew" I had all the best bosses left and wanted to savour it. Instead they were all complete disappointments that made me question whether I even liked Hollow Knight. Which I still stand by today that isnt a fair judgement, since my final experience with the game was such a microcosm of the game disconnected from the majority experience of the game I forgot...until silksong which reintroduced that doubt.I agree Lace is well designed though
>>722592048>jak postinglost and got raped sisters…..
>>722592489>lost and got raped sisters…..
>>722592357>the fight is completely different while involving references to her early forms>involving referencesfucking kek, that is the most retarded take I've read about LL, Act 3 must be the kinoest act for you, since they added a shitty void foreground and all bugs have a void form.It is a reused boss, anon. I want a cool true final boss, is that hard to understand? It's not a "reference" when you fight the boss almost identically as the previous iterations, while the new gimmicks are "gotchas" (the black tsunamis and the teleports, I don't consider her throwing the same black shit every other bug do as new attacks)
>>722592287I think Citadel is my biggest issue with the game. I expected some atmospheric music-themed cathedral. Instead only a few faraway chunks of it even have a particular theme, it's just a bunch of corridors with pillows and spikes.
>>722592617honestly crazy if real transition unironically saved them, they looked like a retarded grown autist beforehand
>>722592359other than radiance the final bosses in hollow knight are when they were finally figuring out boss design. grimm, zote, dung defender, the nail masters. most of the base game bosses are pretty babycore. off the top of my head the only one I can really remember that was interesting was the traitor mantis lord in the queen's garden.bosses like nosk are interesting visually as well as in terms of backstory but mechanically he just runs back and forth most of the time. most boss design was like that. an enemy that doesn't do much of anything.I love hollow knight but my one complaint was how easy it is. i'm glad it was addressed and i'm shocked that /v/ has been so utterly buckbroken by it.
>>722592825>them
You only like hollow knight better because it's babyshit easy outside of the godhome DLC
>2-3 hours before getting anywhereI wouldn't say It's better, however It was the comfiest
>>722592617>trannyjak poster has millions of images of trannies saved to xer computergrim
>>722593171>NOOOOOOOOOO STOP EXPOSING MEEEEEEEEE
>>722592952silksong's godhome is going to rule
>>722592853>other than radiance the final bosses in hollow knight are when they were finally figuring out boss design.nah. i have no idea if youre talking about pantheon or what, im talking about the actual videogame, not a tacked on boss rush mode. Grimm was fine, but disappointing. When I talked about "final bosses" i was talking about, Grimm, Sealed Vessel, and Radiance.Its been too long since I fought them, so I dont remember the specific problem with them, but now that Ive played silksong I imagine its a similar problem. What I do remember the feeling and sense of though, is that the bosses were much more "cyclical" than I had the impression of Hollow Knight bosses being, especially grimm. Its not that the bosses are "easy" that subjective and arbitrary, its that they were simpler than I expected. They did the exact same attacks over and over again, and sometimes theyd do attacks (Like grimms bullet hell) where theyd just spew out projectiles and the combat would become a one dimensional game of just avoiding that and waiting for your turn to attack.I dont agree with your shallow criticism that the game was too easy, I mean it was, personally, but that was by the end, when I returned to the game after a long time of having played much more metroidvanias, the problem with a game being "easy" is that its harder to identify problems that dont feel superfluous Silksong being "harder" didnt make the combat any better, and actually retroactively highlited some possible flaws with HK's that were easier to tolerate because of the less punishing mechanics.
>>722593250>trannyjaker meltdownmany such cases
>>722590138I spent the entirety of Silksong waiting for a moment that rivaled entering City of Tears for the first time and it never came.
>>722593762and then you dilated
>>722593762hey weren't you the fag who got btfo trying to say city of tears was better than choral chambers because you doubled down on its worst aspect (level design) and just started calling everyone a tranny
