After buying EA, a Saudi Arabian Prince flies to your town in a private jet and gives (You) - yes, (You)! - the keys to the Mass Effect IP. How do you fix it? You can do anything you want: you can be privy to and repurpose BioWare's ME4, you can cancel the game, you can remake ME1, you can reboot the IP, you can decide who to hire for what job. How do you return Mass Effect to its former glory?
Remake the games in Unreal5 and give Liara a futa cock
it's now a boomer turn-based CRPG with Squad Tactics elements.Deal with it, I'm the Commander now.
>>722587578Throw the demaster out the window Rerelease the original games as portsRetcon ME2Fire everyone at Bioware
>>722587578Alien sex
It's getting cancelled. EA will be a FIFAhouse from now on.
>>722589023I can already see it
>>722587578As always I turn to the experts and follow their advice.
>>722590264Oh no, not the cartoony graphics known to have been a staple of the original Mass Effect trilogy!
It's wild to me how Bioware is still alive, under EA of all people >survived Dragon Age 2>survived Andromeda>survived fucking Anthem>survived VeilguardThey're like a cockroach
>>722587578Best scenario>reboot ME4, restart development from scratch, set it some 80~ years after ME3; new protagonist, new crew, new story, just a low stakes adventure with no member berries and no end of the world plotSecond best scenario, I guess>reboot ME1 then rewrite 2 and 3 so their story makes more sense ie 2 doesn't just try its hardest to forget about the fact ME1 happened and it was meant to be a direct sequel to itBad timeline scenario>EA remakes the trilogy in Frostbite like the utterly unnecessary Dead Space remake"Oh god oh please oh no" scenario>Andromeda 2
>>722588897>Retcon ME2So you're keeping>Kai Leng>Starkid>We fight or we die>Priority: Mars>Priority: Thessia>Priority: Earth>Priority: Horizon>The N7 MP maps in the SP>The coop>Cerberus>Reaper laser tag>RGB endings>No more genophage>No more Geth/Quarian squabblesSo you can undo the most successful game in the series.Amazing idea. You're hired. Taking over after Gary McKay right now.
>>722590264What man was fat and ugly in ME? Both Vega and Kaidan are male supermodels, and Shepard himself was THE male supermodel.
>>722587578I use the budget to make Spore 2.
>>722594885>then rewrite 2You can't even have the person in your picture if you rewrite ME2.
>>722594885>set it some 80~ years after ME3; new protagonist, new crew, new storyOh, we're going the Saints Row reboot route, I see. Why not just can it, and save the company the money?
>>722587578Remove the shitty RPG mechanics and make it a linear space opera kino with dating elements. Only with women.
>>722596624It's not like the OG games would be going anywhere, I'd love them all the same>>722596734>we're going the Saints Row reboot routeNo, we're going the sequel route. A reboot would imply the events of the past didn't happen and are being ignored. Eighty years, compared with the several hundreds the new game is presumably taking place after given the Andromeda races have made it to the Milky Way post-MEA, would mean that it's been long enough since the Reaper War that the galaxy has started to rebuild but not long enough as to the effects of the war to be forgotten ie brushed aside because new devs don't want the sequel to be a sequel. Which is what you're proposing with a reboot
>>722597321>>It's not like the OG games would be going anywhere, I'd love them all the sameSo you'd just consciously remake a game to flop.
>>722597321>No, we're going the sequel route. A reboot would imply the events of the past didn't happen and are being ignoredThat's basically what you'd be doing. None of the events of the Reaper War matter after 80 years. Either we're well past them, or we all died. 80 years after the black plague, or WWII, and none of them matter.
>>722597448That wouldn't be the idea, no. Can you read? Or like, understand the meaning of words?
>>722597616I did hear, but that's a guaranteed flop. Nobody's buying it.
>>722597667>t. EA suit that gave the go-ahead for Anthem and tried to turn Dreadwolf into a live service game
>>722597906And they would have been successful, if not for Bioware.
>>722587578>How do you return Mass Effect to its former glory?1.) ME4 is a soft reboot that completely retcons ME3 & ME:A out of canon. the game takes place a century after ME2 (think ME4 as a the TNG to ME1 & 2's TOS) where the reaper invasion was stopped before it started in arrival.2.) the new player character, a newly instated spectre is more customizable than commander shepard was and can be either human, turian, asari, salarian, quarian, krogan & drell + backgrounds for each race.3.) proper space exploration & combat.>>722596734>>722597667>>722597448>NOOO! YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE FROM THE CHICKEN SHIT MESS BIOWARE LEFT BEHIND BECAUSE....YOU JUST HAVE TO OKAY!NTA but trying to salvage the story of commander shepard & reaper war plot after 3 & andromeda is like trying to defibrillate a rotting skeleton. you're better off with either a clean slate or just walking away.
>>722599870>NTA but trying to salvage the story of commander shepard & reaper war plot after 3 & andromeda is like trying to defibrillate a rotting skeleton. you're better off with either a clean slate or just walking away.Nobody's buying a Mass Effect without Shepard and the crew.
>>722595712...anon, I'm gonna assume you're disingenuous on purpose and not just that you're being retarded. Let me put it in simpler terms: had I said I want to retcon ME3, it'd imply I want to keep ME2 the same. Which I sure as fuck do not. By saying I want to retcon ME2, I assumed anyone with more than 70IQ would get that automatically would also mean retconning ME3 as it exists, because ME3 as it exists is only a thing following directly from ME2 as it exists. Which I want to get rid off. You know, Butterfly Effect and all that. You get it now?
>722600074Oh no, it's this retard again
>>722600248>ME3 as it exists is only a thing following directly from ME2 as it existsUsually, the people that want to retcon ME2, is because they consider ME2 to be a sidequest that does nothing to advance the Reaper plot.
>>722595864What you need to understand is that they aren't wrong or confused. They are lying.
>>722600280I double dare you to make it, and sell it.Do it.
>>722600407That'd be part of it, sure. But again, I assumed anyone would understand that getting rid of 2 as it exists would automatically, naturally also mean you'd be getting rid of 3 as it exists if only by proxy
>>722600454Everyone knows they are.
>>722600575Every time I had this conversation, I asked how that would change ME3, as a campaign, and I was always told it would be the same, maybe without Priority: Mars, because apparently the only issue ME3 had, was finding the Crucible's blueprint in the Mars archive.Even then, I consider the fact that ME2 is as fun as it is, to be an utter fluke. I don't actually believe that any other ME2 we get, will be any better.
>>722600818If we cannot get a ME1 sequel to be at the absolute very least to the same level as ME1 itself might as well just bury the IP and never ever ever ever ever revive it for any reason whatsoever.
>>722587578Anime artstyle.
>>722601059ME1 is pretty mid, to be honest. It's just recycled KotoR, with worse companions.
>>722597574Somehow missed your reply over the other anon's. Anyway, 80 years after WWII people still can't shut the fuck up about Nazi this Nazi that. The Reaper War was galaxy-wide, with a death toll of 6 gorillion but multiplied by hundreds and for every species out there. It'd be more akin to Fallout 1 which takes place 84 after the Great War and the apocalypse is still very much felt. You're nuts if you believe they couldn't fully clean Sovereign's attack on the Citadel 3 years after it happened but every planet out there would be fully rebuilt a merely eight decades after the single most damaging extermination campaign in the history of the universe that a cycle has survived
>>722587578Make a new trilogy set in the Krogan wars where you help the Salarians to sterilize said Krogans.
>>722601496>Anyway, 80 years after WWII people still can't shut the fuck up about Nazi this Nazi thatThat's because we have some intellectually dishonest, and mentally underdeveloped Americans. Nobody talks about Nazis except you guys. TDS is a terrible thing.>You're nuts if you believe they couldn't fully clean Sovereign's attack on the Citadel 3 years after it happened but every planet out there would be fully rebuilt a merely eight decades afterThe point is, after 80 years, everyone adapted and moved on, or we failed to adapt and we died. The Reaper War is irrelevant in that timeframe.
>>722601384I reject your reality and substitute my own
>>722601727I'm sorry for your mom taking tylenol during her pregnancy, but regular folk didn't like the awful mako segments.
>>722601714>you guysI'm not a mutt thoughever>>722601714>everyone adapted and moved on, or we failed to adapt and we diedIf you adapted you didn't move on, the thing is still there it just became the new normal. For a sequel, that's neat. You get to explore those avenues, see what has changed and what remains the same. What factions collapsed, which ones were created to aid rebuilding and reconnecting between species. For the next game to truly be a *sequel*, it needs to build off of the events of Shepard's tale. They need to have happened, to be in the past (but not the distant past like Mass Effect Will Continue is going with). You pay respect to it, make the new plot wholly deferential to the state the galaxy was left in after the events of the narrative players have such an attachment to, and build from there towards the future and towards the stars
>>722587578As a joke I would make a sequel to Andromeda
>>722601961NTA but what's wrong with the mako sections? They were a bit mundane to get through but that's about it. Were people having trouble with the controls or what?
>>722587578>How do you fix it?Simple, cut out all the gay romance options, feature a desert planet where 1/4 of the game takes place, have the face of ronaldo as the default nuShepard character, and have big titty human/alien women as my companions
>>722600248Oh, so you're saying you love ME3?
>>722602158https://youtu.be/ZqaCEPwWGtc?t=6
>>722602037>If you adapted you didn't move on, the thing is still there it just became the new normal. For a sequel, that's neat. You get to explore those avenues, see what has changed and what remains the sameMost people aren't personally invested in any faction, tech, or landmark in Mass Effect. Which is why this is a guaranteed flop.
>>722600407>usually I make assumptions based on conversations with completely different peopleusually you're pretty fucking retarded like now it sounds like
>>722602232Yes anon, that is precisely what I'm saying. You caught me redhanded
>>722602159>>NTA but what's wrong with the mako sections?I would rather play Veilguard, start to finish, than drive the mako up the side of another mountain.
>>722602421>I would rather play Veilguard, start to finish, than drive the mako up the side of another mountainYou have legitimate brain damage.
I'll add a female Turian squad memberAll female squad members will be HOT, including the Turian above
>>722602410I cannot attest about your life experiences, anon. I make assumptions only related to how such conversations I've had here in the past have developed. Was it wrong to assume? I'd say, this is the first time ever to have that assumption be wrong, so no. Usually, it saves me 99.9999% of the time.
>>722602509go drive up a cliff, thenwhat are you doing here?
>>722602557>Turian>hotIf you set her on fire, maybe.
Big titty chicks all over the place, minimal clothing. No homosex options. FPS game now, gore and dismemberment cranked to 11. Can throw annoying NPC's out of an airlock at any time. No faggy survival mode. Competitive MP.
>>722602721Make her chestplate thicker..
>>722603175No.Turians and Quarians were a mistake.Change my mind.
>>722600074>>722602330anon, nobody's buying a mass effect period because 3 & andromeda practically killed/ruined the franchise.continuing from what killed/ruined it is nothing but sunk cost fallacy at this point. there's nothing worth salvaging.
>>722603358Then why are we talking about it?
>>722587578Make mass effect more action oriented.Star trek is fucking boring and it always will be boring. No one wants to read a novel where the first 30 pages are about a very special girl and her morning routine before she goes out to topple the empire with her specialness.
>>722603425because the OP asked how would the thread go about reviving mass effect while you are going "lalala keep everyting the same lalala nothing needs to change lalala".i can only assume you're either autistic, a delusional biodrone or maybe a current (or former) bioware dev who doesn't wanna see their legacy erased.
>far future>play as Cerberus agent with a power armor>must fight humans indoctrinated by leviathans, rachni swarms, and krogan hordes
>>722602159the content
>>722603358You're wrong and gay and possibly brown too
>>722603837I mean, the only thing that kept the franchise distinct was the Mass Effect technology, which the end of ME3 wipes out, in the one ending that the franchise can continue, if we ignore ME3 and Andromeda, it is basically exactly the same as it was at the start of ME1, even if a century passes.But even then, 80 years will drastically change the look of the setting. Just look at us over the past 80 years. So you're gonna be left with a Mass Effect that has none of the charm of the retro-futuristic look of ME, maybe we will keep the Citadel and the Relays, it largely depends on a per issue basis, and all we really have are some random alien species that we never really developed in anything other than a superficial way, that nobody really cares about, unless it's some autistic Talisweat nerd jerking it off to Quarian toes.So what do you want me to say? The franchise has no future outside of Shepard and the crew, currently.
>>722602330I vehemently disagree. Not only do I believe the doomer thinking of "oh factions don't matter in an RPG because normies don't care about them" to be poison, I also believe it's outright wrong. Leaving aside how much do sheep care about capeshit lore and factions and stuff, Mass Effect is easily the single most recognizable original scifi IP in the vidya industry. Regardless of warts, there's nothing like it and it's the closest we have so far to vidya's Star Wars in terms of an original universe. The sole reason why people are invested in things like the Genophage Arc is precisely because they were personally invested by that point. Hell, New Vegas is a universally beloved game and that RPG's plot is nothing BUT "faction, tech and landmarks". Implying to care about a new game while building it up is wrong or a "guaranteed flop" when the Legendary Edition introduced ME for the first time to millions of brand new (cattle, normie) fans is wild
>>722604326>>I vehemently disagree.Tell that to Andromeda, then.
>>722587578Reboot the franchise with a game that actually focuses on the premise of being a Spectre. Either as a sequel to ME1 that ignores everything that came after, or even just an alternative ME1 that diverges following the point where Shepard becomes a Spectre.
>>722602421Mind broken by the CHADKO
>>722604409>>Reboot the franchise with a game that actually focuses on the premise of being a SpectreNobody cares about playing a Spectre, or an N7.
>>722603643The best part of the entire franchise is Shepard standing still talking to a VI for fifteen real life minutes.
>>722604404>tell that to the game that jumped galaxies and was set 630+ years after 2Nah
Replaying Mass Effect made me realize how much I hate jogging around Citadel trying to get all the quests.The environment is nice and I like the quests but god navigation could be faster.
He really does go around replying to everyone with "lalala keep everyting the same lalala nothing needs to change lalala", damn.
>>722604464I did
>>722604612Maybe it is set 600 years in the future, but as far as anyone is concerned, everything about them is stuck in 2185. If you can't sell that, how can you sell that +80 years? I don't care to find out what happened to all my dead squadmates in a datapad entry. In fact, not only am I not looking forward to it, I am actively dreading it.
>>722604690Great, you just need to buy 5 million copies.Good luck anon. We're counting on you.
>>722604791>everything about them is stuck in 2185Is it? Because the Nexus sure as fuck wouldn't have existed in 2185. Sure they can say it did, but it didn't. Not as far as the OT is concerned, that's for sure.>If you can't sell a completely different setting where the player is aware at all times they're utterly disconnected both in time and in place from the events of the games they actually like, with an unlikable crew, empty planets too big for their own good and a badly written plot; how can you sell the exact opposite?Hard question, gonna get back to you on that one
>>722605129>>Is it? Because the Nexus sure as fuck wouldn't have existed in 2185.Too bad, that's when it was built.>Sure they can say it did, but it didn't. Not as far as the OT is concerned, that's for sure.We can't pick and choose what's canon and what's not. At the very least the games are. Otherwise, Wrex is canonically alive, no matter what we do. Pic related.>If you can't sell a completely different setting where the player is aware at all times they're utterly disconnected both in time and in place from the events of the games they actually like, with an unlikable crew, empty planets too big for their own good and a badly written plot; how can you sell the exact opposite?What makes you think the next game won't be exactly this again?
>>722605340>that's when it was builtAccording to a badly written videogame, which adds to the myriad of reasons people don't like Andromeda nor consider it canon when discussing the series>We can't pick and choose what's canon and what's notI sure can. What's "canon"? What some random out of touch 'tards state we should care about? Lol, lmao even. Disney can shit their pants all they want, it won't make people care about the Sequel Trilogy any more>What makes you think the next game won't be exactly thisWhere did I say it's not going to be? OP's statement was to imagine a world where you could make a best case scenario, ME4 of your dreams
>>722606282>>According to a badly written videogame, which adds to the myriad of reasons people don't like Andromeda nor consider it canon when discussing the seriesIt's still canon.>I sure can. What's "canon"? What some random out of touch 'tards state we should care about? They hold the IP.Disney can shit their pants all they want, it won't make people care about the Sequel Trilogy any moreI don't disagree that the Sequel Trilogy killed Star Wars, but it's over now. Nobody cares about Star Wars.>>Where did I say it's not going to be? OP's statement was to imagine a world where you could make a best case scenario, ME4 of your dreamsThen I still dread about finding out what anon thinks the ME4 of his dreams will do, when he answers what happened to my friends in a datapad entry.
>>722606758>It's still canonDoesn't matter to most people. You don't seem to comprehend canon isn't a magical word that makes nonsense suddenly make sense>They hold the IPStill doesn't matter>Nobody cares about Star WarsNobody cares about modern Star Wars* ftfy>I still dread about finding out what anon's ME4 will do when it answers what happened to my friends in a datapad entryWhy should it? That's what a bad game would do. The galaxy is huge and the war happened 80 years ago. To bring up old characters for no reason other than member berries is what Andromeda did (Saren's protegé, Garrus' dad, Verner's sister, Zaeed's son, etc.), and it's precisely what I mentioned as a no-no in the first point of >>722594885. It's a storytelling issue when creators make their universes feel too small because they insist on fan favorite characters coming back over and over again just because they cannot let go and want cheap gratification. Why *should* ME4's new MC, someone we can assume to be a normal person in their early 30s, find out what happened to... I don't fucking know, Jack? How would that matter to the galaxy in the 2260s? At most, if you really wanted to force it, have Liara as the Shadow Broker and Grunt as some Tuchankan ambassador or other because they're aliens whose lifespan would allow this and they're both repeteadly stated to be young during Shepard's adventures. Even then, if there's no reason for ME4 to deal with the Shadow Broker in any important way in the same manner Shepard doesn't meet him during ME1, only his contacts, then don't do it. Don't force it. Don't add random datapads that go "oh btw Garrus and Tali married and they had 7 dextro-amino acids children and he became chief of C-Sec and she directed Fleet and Flotilla 2: Fleet Harder. THE END"
>>722587578I will throw the IP into the dumpster where it belongs.
>>722607607>Why should it?Because people want to know. That's the #1 reason why people wanted a ME sequel, why everyone lost their shit when it was revealed to be Liara picking up that N7 helmet piece in the trailer. It's what everyone wants from the next ME. Nobody cares about anything else Mass Effect.
>>722608029>Because people want to knowPeople don't know what they want. To keep the Star Wars parallels going, wanting to know what happened to Miranda or Javik is no different than pogging at the latest show to feature Ashoka because IT'S AHSOKA GUYS, I GREW UP WITH CLONE WARS, I FUCKING LOVE HER>everyone lost their shit when it was revealed to be Liara picking up that N7 helmetOh I lost my shit alright. Probably for different reasons than most redditors or reaction videos on YT, though, same as most everyone on /v/. Especially after her forced appearance in Andromeda>It's what everyone wants from the next MEA) I disagree, and believe you're too narrow-minded on what people might or might not want from a new MEB) If you're to make a new ME to satisfy those outliers, don't release a new ME ever again
>>722608857>>People don't know what they want.This is the one question the fanbase has collectively had since 2012, because the endings where so disconnected from everything that the games were about, people never recovered.>>A) I disagree, and believe you're too narrow-minded on what people might or might not want from a new MEYou have no idea what you're talking about.
whoever says they will return the dying stars plot is retarded because it makes just as little sense as what we got in the release. if stars are affected by the mass effect, then why build mass relays for lesser races to use and wait for them to develop?
>>722609070>people never recoveredI disagree. Not only I've held this opinion since before the LE came out, the normie reaction to the games blind after its release revindicated me>You have no idea what you're talking aboutI'll accept the concession
>>722588821I'm Commander Shepard, and this 6-6 critical dice roll is my favorite roll in ALL the Citadel.
>>722588821I'd rather have nu-bioware write ME5 with trick weekes at the helm rather than have it be yet another turn-based slop entry. Holy shit what a terrible take
>>722587578Bury the IP in the same landfill as the NES E.T. cartridges, light a candle and let it die with some dignity.Pour one out.
>Reapers operate only in the Milky Way because that's the galaxy the Leviathans ruled over countless cycles ago >get to Andromeda >realistically species should be trillions of years more advanced because they were never culled every 50k years for countless cycles>nvm they have the same levels of tech we have only their consoles and buildings are greenI hate that game so much it's unreal
>>722609823>I'll accept the concessionThat's right, I know so little about what I am talking about, that Mike Gamble himself, in charge of the entire Mass Effect franchise currently, went on an official bioware blog, and addressed exactly this, because nobody wants it.https://blog.bioware.com/2023/11/07/n7-day-2023/>We’ve asked ourselves many of the same questions you’ve asked us over the years! What happened to everyone you know and love in the games? Who really died? Who had kids with whom? What does a baby volus sound like? What about all the galaxies? The endings! What the heck is going on with our asari scientist-turned-Shadowbroker? What about S— nevermind…you get the idea. And of course, to those questions, there are answers, but you’ll have to wait to hear themNow, post your proof.
>>722610106this shit is unironically delicious, love me some japanese whisky, so much better than that mutt slop
>>722587578Make Liara's tits biggerMake Miranda's ass biggerRetcon the shitty Tali pic and give her an actual sexy alien faceThen make Tali's tits AND ass bigger
>>722610043>I'd rather have nu-bioware write ME5 with trick weekes at the helmPlease say sike
>>722610156Anon, I accepted the concession already
>>722610428Now, I double dare you to make that game you wanted.
>>722610156Holy shit schizo what part of "OP asked for your ME4 not the real one" and anon's "what BioWare is actually doing is no different than Star Wars under Disney in that they're not satisfying the actual majority of fans but the weirdo redditors that unironically believe Shadow Broker Liara is well written and also want to know what happened to her and Shepard's baby" do you not understand? Every thread you post this shit solely because deep down you yourself are one such redditor that wants the new game to be written like a literal fanfic and bring back the old characters now written by Veilguard devs because you cannot let go.
>>722610876tl;dr
That's why you don't ever reply to the resident autist once you notice the patterns as I said in >>722600280
I only played Mass Effect 1 for a bit, and maybe the demo for 3.I would either make a beat-em up or a fighting game.
>>722587578First of all, I cancel ME5 and post a statement on Twitter or whatever outright saying in corpo speak that I didn't like the direction the game was taking, that it was too similar to Veilguard, and that it was too busy being obsessed with nostalgia over being a good game. I make it sound convincing, reiterate on the Veilguard point to make it clear this is a clean break from the Bioware of the last 12 years. Then I re-release the original trilogy as Mass Effect: Classic Edition just because I hate the Legendary Edition and don't want that mess to be "the ultimate way to play ME". Basically make this a straight port of the original games with their original, intended appearance and not the ugly UE4 graphics wrapper. Then I shut the fuck up for three years and just make a good game. No buts or ifs or memes, I take the same time the OG team from 2004 to 2007 to make ME1, but for a new entry. Decades after ME3, ME2's premise of "go around the galaxy meeting people and doing random things" but this time around not being haphazardly in the middle of an ongoing trilogy. A standalone premise, and an emphasis on roleplay and squadmate/NPC interaction akin to BG3. Bring Sam Hulick, Matt Rhodes and Derek Watts back. At the same time at this point I wouldn't even trust Karpyshyn to be like he was in 2007. And for the love of god, no more Liara.
>>722610876>Holy shit schizo what part of "OP asked for your ME4 not the real one"Right, and anon's will flop, kill the studio and the IP.>and anon's "what BioWare is actually doing is no different than Star Wars under Disney in that they're not satisfying the actual majority of fans but the weirdo redditors that unironically believe Shadow Broker Liara is well written and also want to know what happened to her and Shepard's baby"I don't romance Liara, but if you romanced Liara, and want to know what happened, maybe that should be answered. But yeah, I never claimed that turning Liara into Gandalf the Blue was good writing, but I can't change it, either.>do you not understand? Every thread you post this shit solely because deep down you yourself are one such redditor that wants the new game to be written like a literal fanfic and bring back the old characters now written by Veilguard devs because you cannot let go.The franchise is dead, and all it has, is giving answers, and closure, to the fans. If, by chance, that also does something to save the franchise, cool. If it doesn't, at least people got their closure. What's so wrong about closure? I get that it can, and will likely be shit, but a mid ME, just a mid one, with the cast will still be better than X years in the future with the new batch of Joss Whedon's sloppy seconds that the new cast will be.Even in the event that in anon's magical ME4 everything is heavenly crafted, nobody will give a shit.
Remember, >>722610954
>>722614050I accept your concession.
what have you done this week
>>722587578Would continu Shepard story and the Normandy..Shepard as a sick cyborg and transform the crew into a bounty space bounty hunters around several hand crafted planets..
>>722615595Let's hope a good number of those are from BioWare
>>722587578I declare Andromeda non-canon and whatever happens I do not bring Shepard back
