How do we evolve Diablo clones? I feel like the actual formula has been squeezed beyond humanly possible.
holy fuck I just got sticky thinking about how good it would feel to chuck a lightning fury jav into that mass of fallenno other ARPG has made anything that plays similar to or that feels as good to play as lightning fury javazon and it makes me sad
>>7226022503D but actually good
anime tiddies
>>722602250the natural evolution already appeared and it's called Nioh
>>722602250Better story and setting.
>>722604701This. The loot grinder needs actual gameplay to back it up. If I ever see another Diablo clone with a retarded spin-to-win cyclone skill, it'll be one too many.
I know people might disagree at first, by not liking Vampire survivor clones on their own... But VS-likes are basically a auto-hack&slash.A diablo/Path of Exile type maps and areas, but it adopts the gameplay of Vampire survivors/Megabonk. Combining the auto-attack system +in stage upgrades with diablos character progression, active/passive skills to level up, and meta-progression.
>>722604956You too wish you where this man
>>722602250Depth. Expand the characters, expand on the items, expand the lore. I really like D2 but i wish there was more depth. There is a few mods that scratched the itch a bit, by adding lots of strange bosses and areas, items. However the lore is important too.Sadly the technology to build interesting worlds and characters seems to have been lost. We can't do this anymore. It's all random madness mostly now. And even worse, it becomes reduced into "number go up" cookie clicker game with little enigma.
I've heard fantastic things about this solo dev project as "PoE, with a bit of Vampire Survivors in space" with one super consistent vocal caveat.https://store.steampowered.com/app/3498390/Astroloot/All the art is AI.
>>722602250Actual deliberate weighty combatNo Rest For The Wicked had a PERFECT idea until it went full dev hell mode so it failed to evolve beyond a dumber rollslop game
>>722602250Isometric style can be made into a good adventure games when given a good world and mechanical gameplay system (NOX!)But it's been relegated to fucking skinner box diarrhea with absolutely retarded light spewing galore taking up the entire screen for attention deficit autismo faggots.
>>722608569check out this game >>722608546 so you can proceed to be disappointed alongside me
>>722605019I agree with you but I also believe that a good Diablo-style game should reward prioritization which is not possible in a game where you can't choose who or when to attack
>>722602250How about you try playing a real game like RPGS and Action games instead of a gambling sim.
>>722608546>deliberate weighty combatThis, too many arpgs are focused on the combination of movement and combat. so the gameplay is your character teleporting/dashing/spinning wildly across the screen at a million miles per hour. Trying to go faster and faster to the point where your not making smart decisions on what ability to use when, but just mashing everything on cooldown to go as fast as possible. I like the approach TQ2 is taking to combat with the interupt/stun/dodge mechanics.
>>722602250But we did! Remember...?
>>722602250path of exile has explored the formula to its apex and it wont be toppled for a long time. for top down view isometrics that is
>>722609312HoT is great.It's not a Diablolike.It's Vampire Survivors skinned like Diablo.
>>722609507PoE wins primarily by volume of good content+sheer volume of content overall and does relatively little to explore the formula itself. It just keeps tacking on more and more shit and deleting what doesn't work/is outdated.
More skeletons
>>722602250Once POE2 is officially released (1.0.0) it will be the greatest ARPG of all time, surpassing D2.Jonathan Roger's「T H E V I S I O N」is too powerful and cannot be stopped
>>722602250For me it's good games with deep lore. Like Grim Dawn.
>>722602250Call me a nostalgiafag, but it really does feel the genre peaked with Diablo 2, and all the games since have been trying to emulate it and Diablo 3 (which at least tried to move in a different direction, with terrible results).What I think is lacking is atmosphere, most of all. All games of the genre try to be overly mechanical nowadays, with multiplayer as a focus, when I never played either of the first two Diablo games online, and never felt the urge to. There's a distinct lack of understanding of what made them beloved in the first place.Why not try to make a slower paced arpg, to the likes of Diablo 1, but with the design sensibilities of Diablo 2? That is, build and class variety? That would, at least, be something different.
>>722609897poe2 has stopped itself already by not giving melee chars actuall melee skills without turning into aoe rainbow screen diarrhea, essentially you are playing a mage class in melee class skin back to the drawing board
>>722605398>I am the hollow ma-AAACCCK
>>722611697i don't know why the modern games are so allergic to having atmosphere. Everything seems to be kept as shallow as possible. Things just randomly happen, nothing needs to make any sense, number go up, gamer happy.
Return to tradition like Diablo 1 where the loot is simple but powerful and the game is meant to be beaten in 8-10 hours, not turned into a hideous grindfest forever.
>>722602250>How do we evolve Diablo clones?you don't.D1 and D2 is still as good as when i first played it.
>>722602250Titan Quest did it.Implemented dual class system in diablo likesNot another boring gothic fantasy settingArtifacts system
>>722613758Grim Dawn really refines what made TQ great
Can't.Only two types play Diablo clones: gambling enjoyers and gambling haters.Gambling enjoyers play for the dopamine hit of a 1-in-1,000,000 busted rare drop dropping.Gambling haters want runewords, boss currencies, divination cards, and other forms of guaranteed progression.More guaranteed rewards diminish the gambling enjoyers enjoyment, fewer diminishes the gambling haters enjoyment.Every actual change to a game is just an abstraction of moving the needle back and forth between more or less gambling, which the two types of players are in direct opposition to moving away from their preference.
I just want more interesting skills and synergies.
>>722609897By the time it officially releases I won't give a shit. How about that?
>>722614283GD is a straight upgrade except for the setting. I swear TQ looks better despite being the same engine but older and with more low-poly/resolution assets.
>>722611697Im not sure why the ARPG genre has moved away from the deliberate combat that made the early games great. Nowadays it seems like design is geared toward skipping most of the level with ridiculous movement abilities and then nuking the boss with your combo, rinse, repeat. Its nice to feel like you're playing the game not just hitting frappe on an enemy blender.
>>722604701>>722614442Nioh 1 and 2 are great games but they really don't nail the item progression part that well. It's so pointless to look at gear (beyond the main stat) until you reach max item level and start dropping orange loot, and even then it doesn't take that long to farm a decent set for your build. By the time you get ethereal loot you're like 80 hours into it anyway.
Make them more roguelike where resources are considered and used rather than a number go up simulator.For example in DCSS when you see a d3 ogre you're nothing thinking "let me just throw my numbers at it" because you know that you'll just die 80% of the time. You see what items you have available that will let you kill it. In a modern arpg players would just say the game is unfair for throwing a monster you couldn't reliably kill at you, because in modern arpgs you don't have any tools to handle those situations and usually you don't even have enough time to react in time.
>>722602250By slowing it down.Unironically, when D2 was launched it was designed to be slow-paced. Limited stamina meant you had to take a break eventually. No mana pots for casters meant you get to weave in melee attacks to leech some mana from mobs. Ranged weapons had limited ammo, you were supposed to stock up and carry some with you (now its just an inconvenience).
>>722615970D2 had mana pots, but I agree with your sentiment entirely. The slower combat made the games feel much better.
I want a Diablo clone but with guns and scifi, why the fuck is everything fantasy or dark fantasyI played one many years ago but that's it
>>722617569You couldnt buy mana pots from vendors on release, i think thats what he meant.I agree though that slowing it down would be good. >>722602250I think the next evolution of isometric arpgs is actually physics based combat like exanima but with more steamlined controls than exanima, like movement is very easy to control but you have more control over your weapon swings and abilities. And i know i said slow don the combat a bit but make it slightly faster than exanima
>>722617731If i had the chance i would make a star wars isometric arpg with classes like bounty hunter, rebel/imperial soldier, and smuggler
>>722602250>top-down game where you order units around a board>calls itself a roleplaying gameWe evolve it right into a trash can, bugman.
We need more games like Diablo 1. Teleporting around one shotting shit is boring.
Sorry fags, you won't get my secret arpoog ideas so easily. But I can tell you they're quite different from the milquetoast offerings found in the thread thus far.
>>722602495poe2 has lightning fury, but then you'd have to play poe2
