I love turn based strategy games made by Intelligent Systems, which one is your favorite? For me, it’s Advance Wars.
stealth general btw, janny you know what to do
AW is cool.
>announcing a report:)
>>722619976I wish Advance Wars had a general.
Days of Ruin
>>722620494Holy based
>>722619898Both AW and FE are good, but they also play differently to offer diferent experience.
>>722619898Advance wars. It's the only one that actually requires skill
>>722619898Codename Steam
>>722621474You get points for remember that exists.
>>722621047I beat that game and im dumb
>>722621474I heard it runs like trash on real hardware
>>722621474The rare Codename Steam fan....
AW2. DoR is good but very forgettable characters unlike AW. I dunno what else they've done and I struggle to play turn-based games these days (outside of total war). They all seem shallow, mega easy and overall boring.
>>722621839>unlike AWprevious AW titles*
>>722621839I think the characters are better in Dark Conflict. Since DC actually tries to hit the character moments. Even though it still misses.
>”Dark Conflict”
>>722619898I loved both games on gba. A few years ago I tried Days of Ruin. Not a fan of the artstyle but the game was fucking great, but I got stuck in a somewhat early mission and to this day I havent been able to beat it. And to my surprise, theres not a single guide
i wish advance wars didn't suck
>>722621708Ten years later, it turns out he actually was pretty good at hiding.
I always hated how all the continents and armies are named after colors and then the actual COs just wear whatever the fuck. Like you had the ground rules for your designs RIGHT THERE.
>>722620208 >>722619898
>>722621535thanking you saar
SEX WITH LASH
>>722624206
>>722624276>hip bonesholy shit my dick
what's the most annoying thing about the wars games and how would you fix it?
>>722623385I thought she was kicking a ball but it's vore.
>>722625232I think they're serviceable and there's nothing really to fix without overhauling the mechanics. Like, what exists is perfectly fine, the best you could do would be to rebalance the units or something.I would consider suggesting finding some way to reduce the total number of units per side so turn length is shorter and large games become more snappy, but redesigning balance around that would become absurd.
>>722625232To be honest. I can't think of any super glaring flaws the AW games really had.
>>722625232That we never got one with a proper online mode. AW is way more fun against human opponents.
Yeah I got into the breach on steam sale after people said it was like Bug Hunter in ufo50. I need to sink more time as its far more complex but I dig this. It's not straightforward turnbased, enemies plan their attacks and you can push them around to save cities or units from the hit etc.
>>722626169Depends because Campaign and PvP are very different. Not like other games where campaign is a tutorial.
>>722626456Well yeah, that's what I mean. The campaigns are okay just for learning what every CO and unit does. But it feels more puzzle-y than an actual battle unlike playing on AWBW with real people. Keep in mind, I've only played the GBA ones though, someone told me Days of Ruin is less like that. Should get to it and Dual Strike one day.
There's a game called Tiny Metal that's one of those indie games that's just an exact copy of a bigger game and it copied Advanced Wars. Other than that are there any other games like Advanced Wars?>>722626436Into the Breach is really well made but it's basically a puzzle game in the guise of a strategy/mech game.
>>722626765>But it feels more puzzle-y than an actual battleThat's what I mean by it depends. There are some people who prefer that. One of the most popular missions is the one where Eagle attacks that fortress with just air units and some boats. That's very puzzle like.
>>722626934>There's a game called Tiny Metal that's one of those indie games that's just an exact copy of a bigger game and it copied Advanced WarsIt's also getting a sequel (well a real sequel, there was already the other game but that's of a glorified expansion pack) Aside from that. There's a couple of indie games that try to follow AW. Wargroove is the most well known one
Love me a semi complex TBS from 1998 called Liberation Day.
>>722627265Thanks for the heads up!This is also so fucking frustrating if you want to try game dev. The market is so over saturated and there's already a dozen versions of everything made better than a new solo dev could do.
>>722625232Luck damage. I hate spending hours in the move planner on AWBW only to find out that an entire is reliant on one good roll to wallbreak an opposing deathball.
>>722619898>which one is your favoriteAW2. It would have been Days of Ruin, but the lack of a hard mode/campaign remix was a disappointment.
>>722625232waiting for every enemy piece to move
Is Wargroove any good? I know it has that shitty Tumblr artstyle, but the fantasy medieval setting is not bad for an Advance Wars clone.
>>722627120I'm playing that mission now. Fuck this mission.
>>722626934>a puzzle game in the guise of a strategy/mech game.What's the difference to you?
>>722625232That naval units do absolutely nothing. They seem like they should be so cool.
>>722628550not him but>puzzle game: there's one solution you have to find that was planned for you>strategy game: there are multiple solutions, some better or worse, and the illusion of the enemy reacting to your strategy and not just going "lol no"even if they're mechanically the same underneath- which is a failing of one or the other genre, really- how it feels to the player is the important part
>>722628493I've been reading the Steam reviews since it was mentioned in the thread, and it doesn't seem like it's for me. The art is well done though.>>722628550That's a good question, I'd say it comes down to the granularity of player agency. With a strategy game you should be thinking about what strategy to use, and when you lose you should think I need a different strategy. With a puzzle game you're thinking what's the solution to this puzzle, and when you lose you're thinking "what did the developers intend?"Or in other words with a strategy game it feels like there are many different possible strategies and any number of them could work, whereas with a puzzle it feels like you're figuring out the solution to the puzzle. Into The Breach is designed well enough that there are actually usually multiple solutions to all its stages, but it still feels like you're trying to figure out the solution to the puzzle rather than planning a strategy.
>>722628550It really boils down to what you're looking for.A puzzle like game will usually have one hard solution to a level or fight. There can be some leeway to get there but it'll always be the exact same outcomeA non puzzle game will have other methods to reach the goal even if they may seem unintuitive at first. But it'll work if you're clever enough
>>722629027Do you feel that way because the game board is small?Is chess or stratego puzzle or strategy games?
>>722629254Chess is also a puzzle game in the guise of a strategy game.
>>722629326>Chess is also a puzzle game in the guise of a strategy game.
>>722629326Only when there are 7 pieces.
I saw that and will let you live this once.
>>722629326Is Dice Wars a puzzle game?
>>722629613Looks like strategy to me
>>722629549The alternative is my message having to be translated more. Would you rather I speak clearly or make basic mistakes?
>>722620545Can you explain more on that?
>>722629254Maybe it's the uncertainty factor? In Chess and Stratego you don't know the opponent's next move. Perhaps a big reason why Into The Breach has the puzzle feeling so strongly is because it gives the player all the information about the enemies, including their next move. It doesn't feel like you have to make a strategy to plan for anything, you just have to do whatever is the right thing to do based on the information you're given.Like, in chess you might use another piece to defend your queen because your opponent might try to capture her, in Stratego you might put a bomb where you think your opponent will go, in a military strategy game you might decide to put units on defense or attack with them depending on what you think your opponent might do. In Into the Breach you'll never need to think about what your opponent MIGHT do, because the game tells you exactly what the enemies are going to do at all times.
>>722629679>https://www.crazygames.com/game/dice-warsPlay it and let me know.
>>722619898AW1 and AW2 has some brutal maps in the pc pvp mode.
>>722629706NTA but there's the pretty obvious difference that one is a TRPG and the other is just T, no RPG
How's the Engage relay doing? I missed a few threads since chapter 1 was completed
>>722629754Following up with this, no one in the thread think Into the Breach is a bad game because this is my impression. It's thoroughly high quality and I've enjoyed my time with it, I just never even considered it remotely in the realm of something like Advanced Wars before this thread.
>>722629754Was it 100% in ITB? In FE, they tell you too, but it's not with certainty.
>>722629905He lost faggot-chan it's over
>>722629949Damn, really? That was quick...
>>722629754>being able to see the enemies actionsDoes that make FTL a puzzle game when you have upgraded sensors?
>>722619898https://store.steampowered.com/app/3269230/Earth_vs_Mars/>ISIS basically dropped AW for good>in the latest of AW clones, nu-Relic is making their own AW with Impossible Creatures thrown inWill there finally be a good clone?
>>722630236FTL is a roguelite where random events can screw your entire run.
>>722619976Kellam?
>>722628050Just beat the odds, bro.
>>722630272AW is a cursed series and the curse extended to all the clones. All of them have had a major flaw that keeps them from being good.
>>722630384And what are those flaws
>>722630272>nu-RelicI-I don't know anon...maybe? Better hope it's at least decent
>>722629943Here's the first result I got for "Into the Breach screenshot"You can see the yellow symbols on the titles indicating where the enemy will attack. You can also see icons indicating the outcome, in this case the skulls represent a dead unit. This is a scenario where the enemies have been pushed together so their attacks will kill each other when the turn ends. The game reveals all the enemy actions on turn start, then the player moves all units, then enemy actions resolve when the player ends the turn.So every turn you can see exactly what's going to happen and then you use your actions to manipulate it to an outcome you want, like if an enemy is attack a building to the left you can push it away to attack an empty tile or another enemy to the left because it still attacks to the left no matter what happens.Did I explain that well enough?
>>722628050Play Grimm
>>722630345We are talking about the combat not the avoidable death spiders. When you have your sensors upgraded you can see everything the enemy is doing, just like The Breach
>>722625232That they skipped from medium tank to neotank so we never got to see what a heavy tank was.
I genuinely like Wargroove 2. Pretty good game design. Scratches the Advance Wars itch.
>>722630513FTL isn't turned based though, and even if you can see the enemy you see them as they're doing things and don't get all their moves revealed before hand like some kind of future sight.Into the Breach is more like a Dungeon Master saying "The orc is going to attack you with an axe on this square! What do you do?" and then you have a turn to do whatever you want before the orc swings. It's still engaging because you get to decide how to handle the situation and feel rewarded when it works out, but I wouldn't call it a strategy game.
>>722630530TWO BARRELS
>>722630530>Heavy tanksYet another cut unit type from Super Famicom Wars that would've benefited the game balance.
>>722630530Rip heavy tanks
>>722630675If you play FTL for more than an hour you can easily predict their actions.Turn based doesn't define a puzzle.You are confusing "optimal" choice with "puzzle game". You can't actually see what the enemy does until after they spawn in ITB.
>>722630530They’re in the better side series.
>>722630730If Dual Strike got a sequel they would make yet another win more unit and call it the Ultratank and it would cost 35000G. I'll give them credit though, Black Boats were a good idea for speeding up the early game phase of water maps.
>>722630919>it actually has two barrels
>>722630863Well ultimately I just said it doesn't feel like a strategy game in the way that Advanced Wars does, every player might get a different feeling. I still think both Into the Breach and Advanced Wars are quality games, they're just very different experiences. I'd encourage anyone to play both though!All the Into the Breach talk makes me want an Advance Wars game with mechs.
I think people calling ITB a puzzle game haven't played it on Unfair with a kinda shitty squad. You will frequently have to make a tradeoff between grid damage or failure of a bonus objective, and while intents are shown, you can't actually predict what will happen on next turn with any certainty. So you're always weighing multiple options, each with an upside and a downside.There's also meta-strategy. Picking the right objectives for your squad and power level, leveling up pilots safely (sometimes it's better to bench a pilot and go automated if they face a frequent risk of death, but of course they can't build up exp this way), balancing reputation versus grid repairs, and buying the correct upgrades at the end of an island.Not all strategy games need to be as open-ended as Fire Emblem or AW or something. ITB is a micro-strategy game where you're strategizing around random elements that somewhat reveal information about themselves, but the tools you use are deterministic rather than random.
>>722630921You have a loose definition of what a puzzle is and you think in like a speedrunner. Go play real puzzle gamesTLDR; You are retarded
>>722631059>All the Into the Breach talk makes me want an Advance Wars game with mechs.Based. But sadly I can't think of any mecha AW like out there. I know of strategy games WITH mecha but still...
>>722625232Stealth fighters can be targeted by Anti-Air/Missles/Carriers even while hidden.
>>722628493Wargroove is decent. it has more than a few things to set it apart from advance wars (I am a fan of some of the cool unit types and all of the conditions that enable critical hits), but one thing that disappoints me is that COs don't offer any passive benefits to your army. instead, they're just really strong units who have special abilities, which are just okay. it was functioning online play, so that's a plus if you have a friend
>>722631574*it has online play
>>722631074>micro-strategyWhat do you consider the difference between strategy and tactics? Your point about the higher level choices like what objectives to go for is a good one, but typically the things I think of as strategy games have more of that kind of macro decision making while micro-strategy I think tends to be called tactics.Ultimately the labels are just semantics, it's more about the feel of the gameplay and the vibe that the game has. With Advanced Wars you have resources to manage with money and CO power, you can produce more units at bases, you can capture cities on the map, etc. It feels like you're a general commanding an army. With Into the Breach you're controlling just 3 units to counter enemy moves told to you in advance. It doesn't feel like you're a general, it feels like you're solving a chess puzzle (and I don't mean a chess game, I mean one of those chess puzzles where the pieces are setup in a specific way and you have to meet an objective like checkmate with those pieces)
Why isn't this fetish I have common at all among males?
>>722631771>between strategy and tacticsLong term vs short-term. Tactics is taking positive trades, forcing to enemy to take negative trades. Strategy is>The airport is 14 spaces away from the enemy HQ which is surrounded by shoal. Sami has guaranteed victory on day 16
>>722632174That's basically my understanding of the difference as well, and using that understanding I'd say Into the Breach is highly tactical but not very strategic while Advanced Wars has more of a balance between strategy and tactics.Again, I think they're both great games, just different styles of gameplay.
>>722631771>the difference between strategy and tacticsWell, ITB is a mix of tactics and strategy. The core in-map gameplay is tactical, but it's not without strategic considerations, either. Sometimes you make a bad call with mission selection, or enemies move in a horrible way, or a time pod falls to the ground. In these moments you have to adapt to the changing situation and minimize losses, and possibly continue on with your scuffed run.It's not as complex on the "grand" aspects as AW because it's not grand. It's a little approach to the idea of tactics and strategy, but nonetheless...The big thing that I think marks a strategy game is that there needs to be the possibility of making gainful choices with long lasting impact. The game needs to task you with choosing between possibilities that can either produce gains or losses, and which have continuity (lasting impact) for the game length.I can't think of a pure puzzle game where this type of thing matters. Baba Is You...the game isn't asking you to make power tradeoffs. It's just asking you to find the solution to the level. There's no way to play Baba at the meta level, there's no continuity, each level is its own kingdom. Solve it.ITB isn't really like that, it's constantly asking you to make strategic and tactical decisions at every juncture, which profoundly determine success.I think this is also why you can say, for instance, a speedrun "requires strategy," where playing a game casually doesn't. Playing casually, you're not thinking about meta decisions that hedge gains versus losses.
>>722632665>adapt to the changing situationThe adaption would still be tactics. The goal of a strategy would be to make the board state favorable regardless of unfortunate situations.
>>722633070Like I was saying, you frequently have to choose to scuff a bonus objective in ITB, OR take a lot of grid damage. At least that's the case on Unfair. It's a strategic decision: what best helps the run overall at this point? What can I afford to give up? Can I even recover if I give this up? How you physically go about minimizing such losses involves tactics.
>>722632665>The big thing that I think marks a strategy game is that there needs to be the possibility of making gainful choices with long lasting impact.How would you apply that to Advanced Wars? I understand the point you're making about tactical decisions in Into the Breach having longer lasting impacts across a campaign there, but Advanced Wars is more stage focused where all your decisions on one stage don't impact the next. I'd still say Advanced Wars feels more strategic though because you're managing things at a higher level, having to care about resources like money and being able to produce units and choose between what to produce.
>>722633278Yes, the continuity is the stage in AW, and the stage + the campaign in the story mode. If you hosted a tournament, there would be continuity in that too.The key thing is that strategy games are not entirely focused on THE solution. How you get there is important. A solution in a puzzle game is no better or worse than another solution, as long as it solves.
>>722633410>and the stage + the campaign in the story modeAlso, I should mention I can't remember how much continuity there is in AW campaign between stages, it's been a while. That's problem the Fire Emblem brain in me talking.The stage is more of the thing in AW. What you do in the early turns hugely impacts the success of your economy in the latter stages.
>>722633410>strategy games are not entirely focused on THE solutionThey are aren't they? Strategy is "The Solution". Tactics is "A solution". The difference in viability between any tactical solution is how they fit into "The Solution" in a strategy.
>>722633753I sometimes think the distinction between the two is a bit autistic and semantic honestly. What I'm really trying to get at, is that the How is a big deal in any strategy game. In a puzzle game, you're not concerned with the How, only with the What.
>>722633278>How would you apply that to Advanced Wars?Building an APC day 5 hoping to secure early income advantage and potentially control the more contested properties to be in a good position in the mid-late game, at the risk of losing the momentum battle by having less vehicles on the map in the early game. It works well in fog maps
>>722633887fuck reconall my brothas hate recon
>>722619898Days of Ruin and it's not close.
>>722629027>>722629203That not always exact either because a game like Frostpunk which (rightfully so, in my opinion) gets flak for being too much like a puzzle has multiple intended solutions to each scenario, it's just that the solution path is easily replicatable and so once you learn one you have to intentionally forgo using it to try something new.Strategy needs some elements where the player must react to changing conditions that won't be the same each time to devise a path to victory. This is practically impossible for a singleplayer game, though some games give a far better illusion of this than others. A more accurate analysis of a strategy game in single player is to ask how much depth is there in the game state, and does that depth allow for a convincingly granular degree of freedom when figuring out what to do.One problem where strategy is at odds with objective gameplay is that strategy has enough randomness in terms of how the opposing side plays that you can't be 100% sure you'll achieve victory each time, only trend towards more victories than not. For example, when you play another player in multiplayer, even if you're better than them for the most part, they will eventually execute a strategy and you'll pick the wrong counter to it based on the limited information you have and you'll wind up losing. A good player won't win 100% of the time against another player, but saying that against a CPU is considered unacceptable game design.
>>722633883It's not semantic. It really matters. Strategy is that higher level more meta analysis. Which is really what the meat of these games are about.>>722633887This is the interesting thing because a well developed strategy wouldn't just be getting income or contested properties. Because if the income is 18k vs 20k but the best build order is Copter Tank Infantry then income advantage doesn't matter. Hitting 18k(and keeping your opponent at 17k or below) is what matters. It's works out that way.
>>722633278Copy the Panzer General formula it's right there and doesn't trivialize individual stages, they're almost the same game anyways. Multiple tiers of success and even failure that play into branching map paths, this can also lead to a branching story. A great performance in map A rewards you in map B, failing map B leads you to map D instead of C, etc. Two officers are bickering over thing, you side with plane guy over tank guy in the argument, on the next map you get choppers instead of tanks like a variant stage. Completing side objectives gives you rewards for future maps. For instance if you go out of your way to take an difficult island you don't really need to in order to win the current map then in the next map the enemy will have less ships.
Gotta love /vfeg/‘s compulsion to argue about the most random shit, even when the thread isn’t even about Fire Emblem.
>>722622445>top: complete fanfiction>middle: completely accurate and idiomatic translationSo, uh, why is it that NoE's localization division got the axe and not NoA's?
>>722635949Not completely accurate. It's better but It's missing>なぜこんな真似ができる.It's not in the next line either. Again definitely better but not as good as it could be.
>>722635886Your mistake is thinking this whole damn site is not the same
>>722636339I thought the website was 99% bots sourced from like 10 people
>>722635949Oh, this is the first I'm hearing of this.Days of Ruin takes the characterization the most seriously of any of the Advance Wars games, though other games had good moments too (Olaf's Hometown).Have translations been borked the entire time? How different are they for different AW games?
>>722620364Wish we had more Days of Ruin..
>>722636513Don't know. About the translation quality for the entire series. But they go pretty wild. If I wasn't lazy I would put more examples together. Rather than reusing the ones I've already posted multiple times.
>>722636231I think concessions had to be made with consolidating the two lines to fit the text box. There's really nothing lost meaning-wise in the process even if it isn't precisely "to-the-letter". Both invite an identical type of response since both look at Drakov with scorn - just one asks what is ultimately a rhetorical question.
>>722636851I doubt it's a concession issue. There are some lines that are considerably elongated and..probably not the right time for this. I'll stop here.
>>722636803>Americans were always the one to blame for dogshit localizationsWhy are they like this? Is it another symptom of their contempt for nips?
>>722638451the japanese version was the last one released wasn't it?
>>722637050It is, but you need to first break down the angles being taken by the translation in order to understand why I am right.>Who do you think you are?! This isn't your fight!>なんだぁてめえら!?余計な邪魔しやがって>(Who the heck're you guys!? You've got some nerve to butt in uninvited!)No mention of a "fight" is made - but we can clearly see a fight is ensuing and Brown/O'Brian is butting in, and Drakov/Vanda is none to pleased about it. This piece of contextual information then "helps" the next line of the translation.>You made it my fight when you decided to prey on the weak and helpless...>弱者ばかり狙って奪略か……なぜこんな真似ができる。>(Targeting and pillaging only weak and vulnerable prey... how can you conduct yourself in this manner?)Ultimately, "how" you get there is irrelevant because the contents of the discussion are fundamentally the same. ばかり's "only" gets consolidated into a generalized "the weak and vulnerable" which is implicitly exclusionary of "fair" targets. The notion of doing so to plunder their stuff is already long established since Drakov announces his intent to rob and kill Ed at the start of the battle.>Drakov is not happy that someone dares to intrude a fight that he feels is none of O'Brian's business>O'Brian berates Drakov for his dishonorable conduct and makes it his businessAny changes or additions exist purely to advance to those two conclusions.Unlike the US version of the text which threw all of it out the window and wrote from whole cloth as it pleased the loc team.You can argue for something like>"Who do you think you guys are?! Mind your own business!">"How can you stoop to preying only on the weak and helpless...?"But given all of the available information and how ultimately we arrive at one satisfactory conclusion that reads in a natural way and chains well into the subsequent line (お前たちも元軍人だろう。軍の誇りを忘れたか。/You must be former soldiers... Where's your pride?).tl;dr - NoE did a fine job.
>>722638891The Japanese version is the original script. The JP released was just cancelled. You can actually access the Japanese script from an english rom with a cheat code or a publicly available patch.
>>722639139Link to patch in case anyone wants to experience the cancelled JP(but later released as part of a rewards program)>Famicom War Lost Lighthttps://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1003/
>>722639345>Days of Ruin>Dark Conflict>Lost LightCan those retards make up their mind?
>>722629754I think another, less testable method is asking if a perfect computer could map out all states of a game and return an objectively optimal answer for every move the player makes. If a player still has a chance for failure while playing 100% optimally but the player's actions have a large factor on success or failure, then it's strategy.Strategy is just the human mind mapping generalized rulesets and applying them to situations because the human mind is finite in what it can process in a given amount of time. If all states of a game can be optimally solved objectively, then you cross from strategy to puzzle.
>>722639704It can be worse >Rayforce>Layer Section>Galactic attack >Gunlock All these names are for the same game btw
>>722625232naval combat sucks and when DoR finally fixed it by making cruisers actually useful the series fucking dies
>>722641053>Battleships that can move and shoot in the same turnGod.
>>722630645Wargroove plays great but /v/ has decided it sucks because they think the character design is too tumblr. Its when I realized that this board deserves nothing and all the people who care about gameplay first are dead
>>722619898Gameboy wars 3
>>722641053Naval combat in DoR still has the same fundamental flaw as the previous games, which is that sea units are horribly cost inefficient and if the map has airports there is zero reason to invest in boats over planes.The whole sea game just exists to escort Landers around, which isn't worth investing in on a small map, and if the map requires you to spend multiple turns to ferrying around with Landers to make sea units actually important, you're probably not having much fun anyway.
>>722631808>grokshit AI can do this on command?
>>722630272I saw a couple of screenshots, saw it was Relic publishing it, thought it looked pretty ugly and immediately wrote it off in my mind. However,>AW with Impossible Creatures thrown inSounds like 10 year old mes dream game.I still don't have high hopes for it but I guess I'll have to at least keep an eye on it.
