>Shooting games were deeper 20-30 years ago compared to today>Yet melee-focused games 20-30 years ago weren't as deep as todayWhy the different trajectories? None of the Halos come close to the original Doom's level design, and shooting games on the whole have become more mindless and bland. Meanwhile, Elden Ring is much more complicated and involved than Ocarina of Time.
Be honest, OP. How is Doom (1993) any deeper than Ready or Not? It's okay to have preferences, but this is retarded.
>>722657827Literally shit like Destiny is more complicated. You can't even jump in doom
>>722657827Elden ring isn't a melee game, it's an Action GameMelee games are Chivalry, Mordhau, etc
>>722658205>>722658246Limitations create depth.
>>722658381Than by this logic, the limitations in Ocarina give it more depth than DMC
>>722657827Americans are so fat they call it "mealy" combat
>>722657827>None of the Halos come close to the original Doom's level designIt's interesting that you anchor on level design as though that were somehow at the heart of what makes shooters work. You have games like Ultrakill where every gun has a unique interaction that you get by shooting one gun's projectile with a different gun's projectile, there's a recursive complexity to the combat that just comes from attacking your own hitboxes that early FPS games never even came close to. But you're talking about level design.You don't talk about level design when comparing Elden Ring to OOT, even though OOT has far more interesting dungeon design than ER's open world slop, but there you talk about combat mechanics only.Why do you think that map layout is the central mechanic of a game about aiming and shooting, rather than the aiming and the shooting?
>>722658381Ok cool, that doesn't prove the argument or refute how they aren't deeper. If anything that's just an illusion, and the limitation was also governed by the technology at the time.
>>722658486no we don’twe pronounce it as “maylay” you brown street shitter
>>722658437>Than>>722658506Doom is probably older than you.
>>722657827Americans are so lazy they call it "may-lay" combat
>>722657827gun w/ swrd
>>722658506No, he has a point. Modern shooters have so many mechanics that you don't have to deeply engage with any of them. Doom's scarce but focused mechanics force you to use all of them to their full extent, because you can't bullshit your way out with secondary mechanics.
>>722658486Only Eu cucks and third worlders say meelee
>>7226586264 years, does it take being older than Doom to be this retarded, or is that an advantage I got by being younger?
Americans are the Romans of todayEveryone thinks about us all the time and will continue to think about us for all of time
>>722658626You didn't really address what I said. Why do the limitations in Doom make it deeper than more complex games but don't do the same for Orcarina?
>>722658632kek, bodied that fool
>>722658665>Modern shooters have so many mechanics that you don't have to deeply engage with any of them.Sure, some modern shooters can have surface level mechanics that aren't needed to beat the entire game.Do either you or OP know what the definition of depth is and how it applies to video games? You're just arguing preferences.
Ultrakill is better then Doom desu
>>722658834Ultrakill is Doom after HRT
>>722658834Doom is easy to learn, hard to master. Ultrakill is "I've mastered Doom and want something beefier". It's better if you are skilled but it sucks at teaching you how to play itself, and that's a big sin.
>>722658834Agree, but I also think Doom is better than A LOT of modern shooters and I played it in 2023 for the first time.
>>722657827Gun with a sword and we have already tried this experiment.The best combination of gun/sword we ever made is taking a gun which is already the superior weapon of the two and sticking the best melee weapon on which is the spear. Here you go you got the bayonet.
Quake is better than Doom in every possible wayBoomers just cling to Doom because it’s the most basic FPS possible that requires no skill to play
>>722658961what about Gun with Axe
>>722659006why not spear with axe
>>722657827Shooting is more fun, especially if the weapon has good feedback. Having a fucking cannon that makes enemies explode into bits will always be more fun than waving around a giant piece of cutlery while dodging and waiting for your turn to do it again.
>>722658923That's because Doom is the FPS genre in its purest form with almost no bullshit (almost, because keyhunting is a bit shit). The guns are good, the monsters and good, and that's all you need.>>722658974I also agree with this, but not in its raw form. Quake on its own is horribly unfinished. Quake with mods like Alkaline, Arcane Dimensions, Drake, Mjolnir is 10/10 because it shows what large, well crafted levels and higher enemy variety can do to lift up the already great movement and gunplay.
>>722657827Light-heavy isn't deep.>>722658373That's a needless distinction.
As gun laws continue becoming more restrictive and complex, there are less and less people who have actual experience with firearms. They aren't allowed to go out and shoot guns in the woods while drinking some beers without giving money to the government now. So, the quality of shooting games goes down, because none of the people making them know a goddamn thing about guns.
>>722658665He was specifically saying depth. DOOM is a good game for it's time but let's not pretend it isn't simple.
>>722658874no way faggot
>>722658381Advanced Warfare has mobility most early FPS don't have, and it's a CoD game.
>>722658381Does that mean space invaders is the deepest game in history
>>722658665where do you guys even come up with this bullshit from? do you even play MP shooters? or are you just styled on so hard by other players you have to come up with this cope?
>>722659398What's wrong with key hunts? They give you a marked objective to keep in mind.
>>722657827Gun with a sword. >can swing and aim at the same time>bigger boolet
>>722657827>>Shooting games were deeper 20-30 years ago compared to today
>>722657827The gun. If he's ever disarmed, he can still shoot.
>>722657827Gun with a sword mogs this fight and it's not even close. Not only is the caliber fucking colossal by comparison and entering APC mounted gun territory, his sword actually works and isn't cucked with one side being useless thanks to an arm attached to it.
>>722657827I enjoy melee games and melee gameplay has gotten a lot better over the years. Many retro melee games often are clunky and you will often trade blows, at least if you are used to modern melee games.>>722659240You are an idiot. Skillfully dashing in and out of melee, dodging and parrying and CRUSHING enemies wth your own might and reducing them to gibs or sending them fling off with a big hammer will always be more fun firing a peashooter. Bonus points for melee VS ranged. Using either stealth or maneuverability and covers to get close to the gunman and then smashing his head clean off in one blow.A gun os only more fun if you have A FUCKING TANK!!! and you can also melee with the tank barrel and by grinding people into red paste, however your main weapon is A MASSIVE CANNON that shoots a GIANT BOMB THAT DESTROYS EVERYTHING!!!
Ultrakill has fake depth.
>>722658626he used "than" correctly you inbred retard
>>722657827What’s some games that let you wield a gun and sword at the same time?
>>722666552
>>722667343oh, I was looking at the second one lel
>>722665869Based on your description, you'd like Halo.
>>722665956explain why the depth is fake
Did anyone else play this? It was marketed as a "retro-style FPS" before that became popular, but it plays nothing like old FPS games.>Go through a door>It automatically closes and locks and then the game autosaves, cutting you off from the are you were just in and preventing you from going back and finding secrets>It's never marked, so at any time you might unknowingly go through a locking door>This happens like 10-15 times per level
>>722667461Explain what autistic coin flick physics add to the gameplay loop. Saying that Ultrakill has depth is like saying RDR2 has depth because it has shrinking horse balls.
>>722658205I can't speak for ready or not but there's a lot that you can do with a fundamentally varied monster roster as opposed to the popular "all enemies hitscan and one has a rocket launcher"
>>722667828they are rather not autistic or convoluted, they are relatively simple in concept and physics but they enable interesting strategies and tricks, cool new ways to shoot that take skill and are very satisfying. The actual combat purposes of utilizing the coin are very well defined, they have little overlap with eachother and actually fulfill their own specific combat purposes, adding to a genuinely very vast yet surprisingly well balanced moveset. This applies both for the very basic bitch uses of the coin (ie : just shoot it for a basic bitch autoaim) that are always nice to have but often the bottom of the barrel for the hardest toughest levels, to the more elaborate mechanical tricks that are actually unique to the game, like for example combining coins with piercing projectiles to make them pass through enemies several times. In fact, this example doubles as interesting because not only theres many different ways to use the coin for different ways/situations of fulfilling this exact technique, such as simply tossing it normally or by punching it towards an enemy, the piercing weapons you can use for it (electric railcannon, alternate piercer, sharpshooter) all have their own completely distinct purpose and qualities for performing it. Despite the fact these options are all perfectly relevant at the highest/most tryhardy level of play, lategame levels on the hardest difficulty, ETC, they are also somewhat universally applicable, they will never not deal high damage because of some simon says bullshit, there will simply be circumstances where one is much easier to set up or has much higher potential because of purely mechanical/circumstantial reasonsAnd of course it compliments everything else really well, the game has a vast arsenal of unique ways to shoot and attack enemies with a similar level of unique style and interactivity. I only despise the sawblades, "just shoot at the floor without any skill"
>>722667639I played it for 19 minutes back in 2011(?). Didn't strike me as particularly old school.
>>722668084>there's a lot that you can do with a fundamentally varied monster rosteryou beat literally all of them by strafing
>>722667639i played it. It was 50% old school.
>>722667639It's not an indie game if it doesn't misunderstand the games it's copying.
>>722669794>you move out the way by....moving
>>722670546You don't understand, depth means parryslop
>>722666552Inbreeding is healthy you faggot
>>722657827Because shooting is very simple compared to something like fencing or sword play, you aim an object and that object shoots a projectile in a linear fashion. If a bullet comes towards you there isn't much you can do. You can't parry or dodge the bullets unless they're like slow missiles in a mech game, in FPS they're typically hitscan. Spacing doesn't matter much aside from optimizing a shotgun spray or predicting the trajectory of a rocket. The only way to give these games more depth is to introduce movement mechanics like slides and wall running making it harder for people to hit each other or add mechanics from other genres like moba skills.Melee games are a different story, there can be directional attacks, parries, blocks, faints, all kinds of timed moves and spacing matters a lot more. You have to play around animation windows like windup and recovery animations, frame advantages, frame traps, knockdown and wakeup animations. You can play with combos which leave the player in a vulnerable state but allows them to dish out huge amounts of damage if they aren't interrupted. The possibilities are almost limitless for what you can do with melee combat.
>>722671650>The only way to give these games more depth is to introduce movement mechanics like slides and wall running making it harder for people to hit each other or add mechanics from other genres like moba skills.What about the level/enemy design though?
>>722657827What about a sun with a gourd?
>>722671801Like the fruit?
>>722658505>even though OOT has far more interesting dungeon design than ER's open world slopOh yeah because lighting sticks on fire the whole game is compelling as fuck.
