If Arthur was more period accurate and racist, how would the story have been different?
>everyone in the 1800s were racistgo back, chud >>>pol
>>722732047>period accurateHe was already period accurate fuckhead you just don't want to admit your perception of the wild west is wrong
>>722732179>newfag tourist can't even crosslink properly>>>/lgbt/ fuck off
>>722732047Then him earning redemption from his racism would probably be a plotline in the game
>>722732047I only recently learned Arthur gets TB by being a brutal debt collector. By being a shabbos golem usury enforcer. He literally tells the guy to "sell his wife or his family" to pay them back.People weep over this guy.
>>722732047If the game was period correct we wouldn't get the lenny mission
>>722732572>guy who kills people for money is not a good person
>>722732572Strauss is Austrian
>>722732572The guy he tries to collect from deserved it, tb or not.
>>722732382I've been here for 11 years and don't give a shit, chud
if RDO wasnt such a massive fucking grind maybe it could have went somewhere
>>722732625Is that the one where you have to get drunk in valentine? Somehow i never played beyond that part. In the mids of the 'funny drunk shenanigans' scene i just kinda stopped playing.
>>72273276311 years is 2014. So you're a gamergate tourist.
>>722732625they could just cut the lenny character completely and nothing of value would be lost
>>722732625>you cannot have a member of your outlaw gang be a black person because... well thats not realisticlmao
>>722733016also i was banned from 2020 until this year
>>722732047The closeted /pol/fags would have creamed their pants even more
>>722732047Most people would have argued Arthur didn't deserve redemption because he was racist
>>722732047my grandpa wasn't racist and he fought nazi facists an was proud of his native american heritage i know it's not the same time period but i don't know anyone from before then in my family tree
>>722733113So you're further admitting to being a retarded tourist. I'd think that even /r/the_donald tourists from 2016 would know how to reset their routers.
>>722732047I never finished that game. I wanted that stupid fucking scout jacked in act 2 but the quest never popped up.
>>722732047It would be a story about an evil racist outlaw learning that his racism was wrong and that he has to be a better man
>>722733286implying i wanted to come back here. Don't call people retards, chud
>>722732047Abolitionists existed in the 1700s yet /v/ cant believe a non-racist would exist 100 years later
>>722732179Nigger.Back to >>>/lgbt/
>>722732047There's no such thing as racism.
>>722733871Vast majority of abolitionists were still insanely racist especially by modern standards, they just saw slavery as immoral on principle. Hell, Lincoln thought niggers are not human
>>722733950>Lincoln thought niggers are not humanFuck, he did? I'd love to read about that, did he make a speech about it? Was it in a letter or something? He's more based than I ever believed.
>>722732047>how would the story have been different?He would have told the suffragette she was crazy thinking women could vote and gone on with his day.
>>722732047I think it could have been interesting, Arthur being more evil could have made his redemption more powerful imo. In the actual game its just more like a mostly good guy turning into a full on good guy, I get that was kinda the point but still
>>722732047I don't think it would be, he was already a homicidal maniac, being more or less racist is pretty insignificant. It's like having a race car, and being worried that there's two kernels of corn in the racer's stomach instead of one.
>>722733818So why did you
>>722732047Your sense of history is distorted by the fallacy of the mean and the assumption of linear progress.
>>722732047>likely he would be killed for his crimes>overall the 'wild' west actually was mild, there was less crime per capita than today>the wild west was more civilized, but less technologically advanced than todayArthur would be a good boy or most likely be dead. He could be racist tho, since that is a mere opinion and not an actual violent crime
>>722734609You talk like most of the game isn't already about being on the run from law enforcement
>>722732047The story would be the same but even more impactful, they just watered it down because the game is made by bongs without a roicism loicense innit
The game would be better and Arthur would be even more based
>>722732684The first modern bankers in Austria were Rothschilds.
>>722732179my grandparents and their generation were even suspicious of people of another village from a few 100 meters overi can't even imagine the distrust in the 1800s to somebody of a different race
>>722737412Not everyone is Welsh tho
>>722732047I really don't understand why they were so scared of accurately portraying the late 1800'smafia 3 let people say nigger
>>722732047Honestly, not much. The honourable route might be a bit harder to write, but other than that, it would be mostly the same.
>>722732572Yes. The story is about a scumbag who makes a token attempt at making some amends towards the end of his life.
>>722732684Austria was a perma-broke coumtry that was reliant on finance instead of industry.
Two gay cowboys eating pudding.
>>722737864>I've lived a bad life sister *Helps in a feminist rally*.... The things i've done *Saves slaves in Saint Denis*... The people I ride with *LENNY, MY N***** FRIEND IN THE 1800S, WHERE ARE YE?*.... The people I know... *CHARLES MY NATIVE AMERICAN FRIEND, OF COURSE I'LL HELP YOU KILL DEM POACHIN SUMBITCHES*.... The people i've killed *Kills a man because he legally owned slaves this one time*..... The gang i'm in... *MICAH... HOW DARE YOU ACT LIKE AN OUTLAW*..... You see.... There's just no redemption for folks like me *Kisses a French trans (this actually happens..... WHY.... WHY SISTA, WHY DID I LIVE SUCH A HATEFUL LIFE *Mary, of course i'll help you now that your husband died*.... YA SEE, THE TRUTH IS SISTER *Kills KKK members*.... THE TRUTH IS THAT I BE AFRAID *Votes Biden/Harris in 2024*
I don't think Arthur needed to be racist, it makes sense that he'd develop close bonds with fellow outlaws and there'd be plenty of oppressed minorities among their number. What pisses me off is that we have to spend a whole chapter dealing with southern post civil war political bullshit in what should be the height of Jim Crowe and yet the game pussies out of showing the cruel reality of the period. They very clearly want to say something about the cruelty of slavery and racism with the KKK encounters, the slave catcher side quest, and the one black guy who gets his carriage stolen, but at no point do you ever have to hear a racial slur said by anyone other than Micah or Lenny. Shit they shoulda had a mission where you save Lenny from a fucking lynching, have Rhodes seem pleasant at first but turn out to be a fucking sundown town, if you're going to have a chapter be about this subject matter then fucking commit to it. The chapter just ends up being a bunch of Hatfield and McCoy bullshit instead, it reeks of cowardice.
>>722738147Lmao
>>722732179you're right, they didn't call people racists back then, no one cared
>>722732705not when you realize strauss purposefully gave out loans to people he knew could not pay on time, very desperate people who couldn't get loans anywhere else except a criminal jew
>>722738656stop standing up for the audience of rockstar games- i get what youre saying but you know theyre retarded so dont bother trying to act like they deserve the nuance. wed be in the exact same timeline anyway>Side A: the bad words made feel icky>Side B: why do i have to save NIGGERS!?>Peanut Gallery: game 2 slow
>>722738886Their fault for being stupid.
>>722738886Well yeah, if they could get it somewhere else he wouldn't have too many customers
>>722738886Strauss was no worse than the rest of them. He didnt even squeal on them after getting kicked out and tortured. Arthur gave him the boot because he couldnt accept his own sins.
>>722732047If every single white guy in the mid~late 1800s was racist, how did abolitionists exist? How did so many slaves make it north via the underground railroad? There had to be SOME people that saw negroes as different/inferior but also didn't hate them on GPI'm willing to accept the explanation that the Van der Linde gang were a group of outcasts that took in all kinds, while Dutch himself saw himself as the champion of the little guy and the downtrodden. Bullshit but he believed it. Thus I don't accept that it was necessarily inaccurate that they hated rich people more than they hated black people
>>722732047You know Huck Finn was published literally around the same decade this game is set in right
>>722739135>saw negroes as different/inferior The definition of racism is literally holding that one race is capable of being intrinsically superior or inferior to another. It does not require hatred.
>>722734019Yeah and US Grant tried to have all blacks sent back to Africa because he didn't believe that white people and black people could properly coexist
>>722738953The game does have nuance elsewhere though, just not in this chapter. The one rationale I can think of is that they'd probably worry that a realistic portrayal of the south at that time would make southerners hate the game. Honestly, I just wish the game's combat wasn't so painfully fucking boring. I love exploring, I love the landscapes, I love the characters, I love hunting, but every fucking combat encounter feels the exact same and they're all terrible.
>>722739094I actually found it really interesting that they made it so he wouldn't squeal. He seemed like the character the writers hated the most, so I figured as soon as he got kicked out he'd betray them but no they chose to give him that same sense of humanity the rest of the gang have.
>>722732047>>722737412I hate this shit so much. Get your grandparents (I guess great grandparents for the children in this thread) drunk and they'll always talk about their friends artur and vince >he was a dirty polak but a hell of a guy. >never met a nicer guy, even if he was a wog, always had the best lunches fuckin' greaseballMeanwhile, the internet has 16-year-old old thinking the past was just an eternal race war.
>>722739135Racism and abolitionism were not mutually exclusive. Being against slavery doesn't mean a person has no prejudices.
>>722739164Game even prominently references Mark Twain with "Clemens Point". Shame it doesn't really have anything of substance to say about the south.
>>722732684Just like Hitler (who was also a Jew)
>>722739273So stuff like hanging out with Lenny and fucking with white plantation owners isn't necessarily inaccurate, since there's nothing to say that Arthur or any of Dutch's other followers needed to dislike negroes. The idea that they felt kinship with those at the bottom of the social ladder has merit>>722739549It merely demonstrates that people during that time were not a monolithic block. There were plenty of views, from being simply anti-slavery to actually believing in equality and shades of nuance in between. Saying someone willing to be friends with a nigger in the 1890s isn't period accurate doesn't make sense.
>>722732047Trannies would hate the game and it wouldn't be so overrated and glazed
>>722740210yeah but thinking someone who DOES hate or distrust negroes is an insane and backwards savage animal and taking up for them is kind of out there
>>722732047>everytime Arthur speaks he says the word Nigger>when you "antagonize" NPCs he will always insult their race first
>>722732047It's not that he has to be racist. It's that he's by definition a social justice warrior. He only helps people if he is paid for it, except if it's a poor weeping black guy who experienced racism, then Arthur will drop everything he's doing and run after those heckin racists like his life depends on it. That's what makes it obvious he was written by Californian women. His morals aren't consistent.
>>722740409But Dutch does act like he's more enlightened than regular society.>>722740792It's not inconsistent, it's a code that's different from yours. But if you consider it inconsistent, so what? Characters can have flaws.
>>722737783This, even Mafia 3 was braver than RDR2 kek
>>722732047Is Arthur's hair brown or blonde? Kinda looks like both, hard to tell
>>722740792I mean he helps a lot of random people in side missions. It's kind of just the nature of side quests in the game that Arthur doesn't have much motivation to start them, otherwise they'd be main quests.
>>722738147Arthur, you have to be a better men
>>722739135I don't necessarily have a problem with Arthur being part of gang that had multiple races of people but sometimes it's genuinely a bit too comical. Like for example, Arthur not knowing or acting like not knowing what racism is when he is helping out that black doctor in one of the stranger missions.
>>722738147kek
>>722739273The definition of Racism is just prejudice based on race; any other definition is just unnecessarily complicated
>>722741734Yes, but that definition doesn't benefit my agenda.
People don't get that non-racists had to exist since forever or else we wouldn't have racism. How would you define racism without anti-racism? It would be like breathing. Nobody says that you're a breather.The idea with RDR games is that uncivilized murderers were still more civilized than the educated whitoids who believed in phrenology.
>>722739135It's fact Arthur acts like a democrat in 2025 whenever he hears anything about racism etc that makes it really weird, it's like he just came from current real life California (and even they would be more racist)
>>722742050Fact: there were people a hundred years ago who were far more radical than Democrats in 2025
>>722742031I really don't see how people could hate Professor MacDougal, maybe he was a bit of a nuthead but he seemed like a chill guy overall
>>722732047There would be a twist that Arthur is actually Herbert Moon's son
>>722732047the game wouldve been significantly better and not poopshit
>>722737783>>722741008There's a big difference in being called a nigger versus calling someone one. The former is more tolerable to normies since that paints the main character as the underdog.
>>722732352Transvestites literally hadn't been invented yet, and they wouldn't be brought to America for another 200 years. Many states had laws prohibiting women from wearing pants, and bigamy was punishable by death in some counties.
>>722741734>>722741926that's the true definition, people warp it all the time to fit their needs, and most of it is never a true application of 'racism' anywaysa lot like how zionists will call all their critics antisemites
>>722742638i call my mom a nigger, it doesn't sit well with her, she's from ny, she doesn't like blacks kek
>>722732047>game forces you to do evil things in the main story>so you have to "redeem" Arthur in the side activitiesThis shit is so incredibly lame
>>722742921That's utterly false, transvestites have been around forever and we do specifically have written accounts of crissdressers/trans people from the Wild West.You don't write laws against things that you would never consider happening bruv
>>722739135A quote from Abraham Lincoln, a eastern urbanite who was considered so radical that he started a civil war.>The negro race is inferior.>It is not my position that the white race should hold anything but the superior position. >It would be better for all concerned if we were forever rid of the negro menace. >>722739478>I had a grandparent who hung out with a polish guy>This means people in the 1800s were kissing black transvestites!
>>722739135Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves. He also thought blacks and whites shouldn't live together and wanted freed slaves sent back to Africa. That's how
>>722732047So can we label OP already? There's clearly a guy who is obsessed with the idea of Arthur's political views, and makes a thread every day complaining about them. Let's give him a name, so we can shame him properly
>>722732047https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowry_WarIf he were period accurate he'd be in a diverse gang hiding from confederate conscription in the swamps killing sheriffs and robbing plantations
>>722732047He would be exactly like Micah
>>722743373>Guys my gay porn I wrote in 2022 is totally realThe very first transvestite was created in the Institute for Sexual Research in Berlin in 1920(The institute was opened in 1919.). This man was previously arrested, and involuntarily committed to a insane Asylum as like in most places in the world, Crossdressing was illegal. After the Institute for sexual research was burned to the ground, the "research" basically ceased, and Americans did not have any sexologists to even attempt to illegally make a transvestite until John Money arrived in America in 1947.In 1966 John Money convinced a family to cut a child's dick off in a effort to prove his research, but this failed the boy killed himself. The first similar "clinic" was opened in America in 1965, and he allegedly performed the first "successful" procedure in 1967. This again however, is just the very first time any of these things were even in the nation for the first time, and are in comparatively urban areas. Transvestites simply wouldn't have the facilities to not die terribly of infection, and they never traveled far from the place of their creation for this reason. The Blue Mountain Clinic is the first gender affirming clinic in Montana, and they began offering these services in 2011. Missouri had their first in 2020. This stuff was all very recent. Maryland is on the east coast, and is a very different place even today.To put this in perspective, Baltimore is more distant to Phoenix than Tel Aviv is to Spain.
>>722744276https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_L._HartBut then how did this trans man doctor become the first person in america to undergo gender affirming surgery in america in 1917 before also discovering how to detect Tuberculosis with x-ray, which allowed doctors to catch it early and save many many lives?
>>722744554I say before but he did both around the same time
>>722744276Anon, you have no idea what you're talking about at all. If you just look up crossdressing on wikipedia it'll show you a picture from 1890s America in fact lolYou don't even know what the words you're using mean so sit down and stop larping as an expert on the topic
>>722744276And again I have to add, if it didn't exist, it wouldn't have been illegal
>>722744554
>>722732047I mean Charles, Lenny, and Tilly wouldn’t be in the gang and they wouldn’t give a shit about what happens to the indian tribe.
>>722745341lol copehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozaawindib
>>722745341>Upon reaching adulthood, Hart sought psychiatric counselling and surgery to continue passing as a man. Hart's was the first documented transgender male transition in the United States, though sex reassignment surgeries had been carried out earlier in Germany, including on one man, treated by German sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld, who had won the right to serve in the German military.I hate the freaks too but you got BTFO. Stop being a bitch and take the hit.
>>722743065Listen, listen, there's something you need to understand: I can't be wrong about anything ever, and if I ever appear to be wrong, then reality is being wrong and needs to get with the program. I decide what words mean.
>>722739135Most abolitionists were racist you fucking retard
>>722732047I'm fine with Arthur not being racist but they should've made Micah and the fucking actual KKK more racist and let them say nigger.
>>722745598https://historywithatwist.wordpress.com/2013/08/11/mrs-nash-the-transvestite-with-custers-seventh-cavalry/This is the one I was looking for, but there's a bunch of them both among the natives and the settlers back in the day. Nothing new under the sun and all that
>>722745598>Wikipedia.
>>722748867>Wikipedia aaaaaand?
>>722732047It would have been a more interesting and morally complex story, instead of the boring basic shit that we got in the actual game
>>722737412racism isn't just something that just goes away with time, it can come and go.a lot of modern day racism has to do with social media and mass media fearmongering in general. I've known a few people who have experienced living in a massively gentrified or well-to-do neighborhood that their parents or grandparents absolutely won't get anywhere near under any circumstances because it's too urban and they're risking imminent death by going to the vegan restaurant next to the independent bookstore and weed dispensary
>>722733264Your grandfather definitely does not represent the majority or average of the people from that era
>>722732047Just read Blood Meridian
>>722734082Would it really? It kind of makes it seems like being heckin racist is the most evil thing you can do. I mean RDR2 kind does that already. But Arthur is like a ruthless murderer that plenty poison for the soul. It’s just that games make killing not seem that morally bad
>>722739478>Anon's grandpa: I hate niggers.>Also anon's grandpa: [explaining who the random negro in his wedding photos is] Ol' John was my best man, anon!
>>722750864A lot of the cut content already alludes to the fact that Arthur was originally meant to be more brutal than he was in the actual game.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CshW-18yBoIt might have to do with the cut with storyline of his son dying in the prologue, but overall I think it would have been interesting to see such a direction for Arthur, not saying it would have been better. In the actual game I never really got the sense that he was truly evil for some reason. If Arthur was more evil it could have made his reflections on his bad actions after getting tb more powerful, at least in a different way from what was in the game.
Arthur is an interesting character that is both praised and criticized in ways that never landed with me. The thing about Arthur, is that he’s a very rare case of a protagonist who is an actual dullard. I don’t see people bring this up very often. He’s not an intelligent man, and it’s probably the best written aspect of his character. Usually the stupid characters are cartoon caricatures that exist for either laughs or to hamfist some drama by giving the writers an easy out for them making bad decisions. He’s just a dull man raised by an eccentric criminal. The one thing that is off about the writing is that he’s always portrayed this way until he’s compared to John, then John takes the role of dullard. Which is bizarre in both the context of rdr 2 as a stand alone entity and even weirder given the context of the first game. It’s like they didn’t want John to overshadow him. Basically the only time Arthur isn’t a caveman tier yes man for Dutch is if John is in frame
>>722751824I overall don't like John in RDR2 at all. His voice acting is terrible, he is dumbed down and treated like a wuss, and even his 3d model which is just Arthur's model with John's texture slapped onto it. It's all pretty bad.
>>722742921there are no transvestites in rdr2 so its pointless
>>722751824Well the thing is that John was always stupid. Even though John always seemed like the smartest guy in the room in the first game he was usually in a room full of idiotic caricatures. It isn’t until he meets London Ricketts where you kind of start seeming the gaps in his intelligence. Hell the first thing John does in 1 is walk up to Fort Mercer and get shot, zero plans, dumb as shit.
>>722752191>Hell the first thing John does in 1 is walk up to Fort Mercer and get shotMy headcanon for that was John kind of wanted to die, because it's pretty clear to me that John didn't care about himself at all and just wanted to secure a good future for his son. But maybe that doesn't make sense because maybe John thought the feds would kill his family if he failed or something.
>>722752191Not really. It’s night and day how he’s portrayed in the first and second games. In terms of intellect it’s like John RDR >>> Arthur >>>>>>>>>>>>> John RDR2
>>722753130Where would Jack and Red Harlow fall in this ranking
>>722738953>stop standing up for the audiencelol>STOP BEING REASONABLE JUST TOW THE FUCKING LINE ALREADY AND SHOOT UP A WALMART
>>722732047That would make it more like GTA in the wild west than RDR2
>Gamers simping for Arthur Morgan for 7 minuteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuqeVuEY3Bw
>>722753705First girl kinda bad doe
>>722751824John in RDR2 being such a true idiot never really sat right with me. He is uneducated and rather stupid in RDR, not going to deny that, but it's tenfold in RDR2 for some reason.I could see him being more naive for sure, naive and not wanting to pull his weight with Jack. But his behaviour doesn't sit right with me.
>>722754940John is actually kinda smart in RDR2 because he is one of the people early on that isn't blindly loyal to Dutch and kinda points out his bs, but he is just portrayed as a bit of a goof and less like the strong confident person he was in RDR1
>>722746138Sounds like most arguments I've had on here
>>722732047I think it would have been fine if they just didn't go out of their way to show how non-racist he is every other scene.
>>722753848This bitch had a mental breakdown when Cole Phelps cheated on his wife and was so salty about it she didn't even care about his death
>>722757301Lmao wtf
>>722732047The game would probably feel more edgy and mean spirited, kinda like Django Unchained
>>722732047He would be like Bill Williamson
