This game has the best build systems in an RPG I've ever seen.
Not even a skill tree. Just a skill branch.
This shit right here is an inside joke or something.
>>723613159That's what makes it good, because skill trees end up with heavy divergence from a set path AND the player has to have the foresight to spec appropriately.And if the game has a respec mechanic, then all of that is null and it becomes a branch anyway.
>image ripped from some journo site>game is so good guys (can't even take a screenshot)
>>723613459You stupid bro. A screenshot of the game in action and the skill tree at the same time
>>723613270its really not that bad if you just take the time to read it and look at making a path that follows a theme for yourself, it just filters the double digit IQ people, but you can always just read a guide.
>>723614042And how are you meant to figure out what the fucking theme is aside from the weapon pictures on the outer edge
>>723614165poe babies literally think having a huge mess of specs in one talent tree and having to use the search function is the epitome of choice
>>723614042Nah it's just cringe and lazyThe masteries are way more interesting and in depth
I take it all back what the fuck is this
THIS is how you do a skill tree.
>>723614165>And how are you meant to figure out what the fucking theme isliterally read your class and abilities. example>warrior / mace>wow warrior and mace both use slams and AoE moves>this part on the tree is specifically for slams and AoE, lets look at the paths that go from warrior to this location>hmm this path goes there quickly and also branches out to these armor and resistance nodes, while also having a bonus AOE area increase nearby, ill go this waythen you make a standard warrior AoE build the way the devs intended and it works just fine because its literally that easy.
>>723613076Cut all the legendary modifiers from items and add all of them to the tree as another layer of skills, then we'll talk.
>>723615486We’re talking now so what’s up
>>723613076No Paladin, no buy, simple as.>muh skill treeDoes that skill tree include any Paladin skills? Didn't think so.
>Select skill, it does 50 damagemeh>Select skill, it does 10 damage, can select it up to 5 times for it to do 50 damageOH MY SCIENCE
>>723616548>disregards that skills already have their own leaves on top of this
>>723616430>paladin>entire list of whack a mole skills and co-op aurasCan’t wait for it to release and for everyone to complain because “it’s not D2”.
ENTERTHE KING
>>723617428Teedus I’m watching your sphere grid bruh why the fuck are you smiling bruhSTOP FUCKING SMILING BRUH
>>723616430/thread
>>723618198Why is he African American
I find it extremely funny how tards at blizzards seem to be completely unable to understand why people still play Diablo 2 20+ years later.It's like they can't even process what the fuck this game even is, how it was made, how it works. Anything they've made in Diablo IP after it doesn't have anything in common with it, it's completely different games, much less interesting ones.It's not even some commercial secret. As far as I know there were no diablo 2 devs among poe devs, but they understood what that game is and why people play it.
>>723613076>No MonkPass
>>723618758He is supposed to be mediterranean God damn it!
what if it was a skill cock instead of a skill tree?a skill PENIS +300% cum capacity nodes haha!!!
>>723619157Isn't Spiritwhatever literally just jungle monk?
Can someone explain to a retard how the game works after level 50? The difficulty skyrocketed, and every build I look at on the internet is apparently tied to the limited-time items.>equip this item that gives +1000% damage (valid for 3 months)>equip this item that gives +9999 defense (valid 3 months ago)I am using a chain lightning sorceror and the enemies HP is a lot now.
>>723613795How are you this retarded? A shill post looks very bad when the shill (you) can't even use their own screenshot.
>>723613076D4's skill system feels like they wanted to copy PoE but didn't have the balls. So it's a regular simple skill tree but they tried to make it look a bit PoE-ish
>>723619274dei monk
>>723613076Can you mod Diablo IV? I want to play with high drop rates.
>>723618941Diablo 2 is ass lil broDiablo 1 is better
>>723619256TWO NODES? The Skill Shaft
>>723619404No one in this thread/board has gotten to the endgame except for like 3 dudes. /v/ is full of dad gamers who are stuck at level 22 from lack of time.
>>723619452I ain’t taking a screenshot on the ps5, putting it on the usb, putting it into paint, cropping it, all so some losers on /v/ can give their stamp of approval. That’s why my Diablo threads do numbers, and you using a messy screenshot of some bullshit section in the game
>>723619465No one actually engages with poe’s tree, they just branching out and then read up a guide at end game. It’s not logically or Italy possible to really take it all in, and it’s used as a marketing meme.
>>723617428The first time I filled all the grid with +4s to max stats I was torn between sacrificing luck or HPs. Now it's kinda obvious what the correct (better) choice was. You have max defense and magic defense anyway so any extra HP is wasted, not to mention one extra armor ability slot.Then again what do I use max luck for? 130ish is already enough for 100% crit rate or close to, if I remember correctly. Even fighting Penance is about smart use of turns, not damage.
I remember them announcing the skill tree as a literal tree. Shit was hilarious. They had D2 to look at as a direct template, yet they still managed to fuck it all up.
>>723619528That’s literally cheating. Would you walk into a casino and ask for higher win rates? Not that Diablo IV is a casino. What do you mean there are casino slot sounds when the loot drops?
>>723619954Isn’t d2 the first skill stree ever made? D2’s is more like a skill road with three lanes.
>>723619752More like no one on this board plays that shit because literally any other arpg exists.By the way you running attack build or defense build?
>>723613270>need a fucking phd just to skill tree
>>723614165By being able to read, retard.
>>723613076Woah they're color coded and everything. I don't even have to think about what I'm building
>>723617428I FUCKING KNEEL
>>723620032I’m running Energy build on Roague. Because I was thinking rightBig arrow moved cost like, lots of energy, and I can only shoot threeSo I’m like, looking for Energy in the search boxDing, found them Now I’m collecting energy I’m doing drive buys Nap nap nap bap
>>723613270I can’t believe people defend this shit as if it’ll click at some point and reveal the true depth of the game or something when it’s literally just connect the dots from McDonalds
>>723613076I'll be honest and say people were way too hard on this game. The only thing shitty about it is the online-only shit. The game has one of the best stories since 2 along with a really good skill system that is capable of being respecced at any time withoit using an item that requires a shitload of effort to go through and can only be used once. I think it's overhated and I don't know what else blizzard could possibly do to make it better outside of removing the online requirements
>>723620138>colour coding is badHow about we make them all brown and grey like your favourite FPS games
>>723620249>The game has one of the best stories since 2 along with a really good skill system that is capable of being respecced at any timeYeah it’s really solid. I think a lot of established fans are stuck in the initial reception around the game on release, but when you actually pull back and analyse the game, it’s very strong. I don’t see how people could say that 3’s story for example is better than 4’s.
>>723619274>jungle monk?>>723619519>dei monklel
>>723620249Being able to respec on the fly so easily, say just to compensate with co-op play, really highlights how deep some of the builds are. The limited six skills add to this, because you’re constrained down, instead of the normal 24 skills on your mmo hotbar
>>723620540Exactly. 4 is the opposite of everything 3 was. It has a darker and more gore filled story, characters that die meaningful deaths, a world that genuinely feels like it's going through an end time apocalypse level of event. It had an interesting story that left me wanting more when it finally reached its end. 3 had you playing side character to some chick who was apparently secretly actually le powerful in disguise and an angel with an identity crisis. They made it to where you could build your character in a variety of different ways unlike 3 which had a skill tree you'd see in a mobile game. They added good unique loot with world bosses that could be challenged. There were some parts I actually found challenging enough to where I had to reset my build and change my gear around to try to better handle the situation I was in. But people still complain because it's not Diablo 2.
>>723620817I honestly thought that was one of the greatest changes they could have done. Going back and playing Diablo 2 and having to go through all of the efforts to actually change my build really sucked. I had forgotten what a pain the ass it was and how you couldn't even really do it until you were mostly through the game. They added a unique feature that made it to where you could build yourself however you wanted whenever you wanted and somehow it wasn't good enough. I don't get what players want at this point outside of 2 which already got remastered only for no one to play it
>>723620932Diablo 2 gives you a free respec on the first quest of the game. Wtf are you high?
>>723621078Yes but if you want to respec again you have to build the cube and then make a token of absolution. If you're feeling like your current build isn't fun or something like that and you're 2/3s through the game, if you've already wasted the first respec you're stuck either completing your current run or you have to beg someone to give you their token. It sucks
>>723620849>But people still complain because it's not Diablo 2The nostalgia around 2 is so heavy that it needs to be studied. Grinding Gear still can’t step away from the UI and locales of Diablo II, to the point of emulation, not just inspiration. Can some oldfag actually explain Diablo II’s reverence for us?
>>723613270It’s just the paragon part of theb build from d4. + damage and + stats are not that interesting.
>>723620932>>723621394Just re-roll. Leveling ain't that hard.Then you still have your old build if you want to go back to it.
>>723621745I get it I'm fully aware of the ability to reroll but I still think that it's a worse system overall than just being able to swap skills on the go. If you don't have a build that you like or that you find fun or that's working for you, it shouldn't require you either grinding to get the ability to respec or re-rolling your character and leveling up all the way again from scratch. Even if it's not that challenging to level up again from scratch, it's still not nearly as fun to me to do.
>tfw no diablo vtuber
>>723618758He's like supposed to be north african or something.
>>723620849>4 is the opposite of everything 3 was. It has a darker and more gore filled storyFor me it’s too macabre, but I get it if they were building up from the concepts in 1 and 2. When you see Tristram raised in 2, that’s the feel they were going for on scale. 3 feels, strangely, like a prequel or something in terms of tone.There’s some ludonarrative stuff in 4 though where you’re like,>who is keeping this group of ghouls just outside the town from coming in
>>723613076This game is genuinely garbage. Insane how much money they've pumped into development just to get the most forgettable experience in the arpg catalog
>>723614757>d3/d4 players when they have to deal with 1% complexity
>>723622117Genuinely, what do you feel is garbage about it? Do you not like the speed of combat is the world too linear the OST too somber?
>>723622748Garbage itemization, boring skills, way too easy and the sales model is insulting.
>>723622748>skills are boring as fuck to use>story is garbage>The characters are all fucking retards that made me wish the villain would win and kill them all>Open world meme is pointless and added nothing>Apparently changed 5 times since I played, but gear was trash with stats that made no sense and everybody just getting the 1 good stat of the 100s of useless ones>Somehow worse at letting you find groups and play co-op than even the first Diablo game
>>723623384>>Apparently changed 5 times since I playedThey are doing yet another big overhaul that's gonna be in in testing next week. Looks like they have finally thrown the towel in the ring and are just gonna attempt to go back to a more D3-like philosophy. It even looks like the endgame will be straight up GRs with a leaderboard to match the D3 endgame.
>>723622892>>723623384What then would be interesting skills for an isometric rpg?Do you need stuff where you jump across the map or summon shadow jutsu clones or summon giant demon minions
>>723623517>They are doing yet another big overhaul that's gonna be in in testing next weekThey said they were changing enemy AI and that enemies will now flank you and whatnot. I’ve never seen that before in an ARPG.
>>723613367>That's what makes it goodYou play action games, I play action rpg's. We are not the same.
>>723622748I didn't play this shit, but I played 3 and I am entirely sure that it's identical in 4 because they are done with the same psychology departments as advisors.The answer is dynamical scaling of enemies that makes all character development meaningless. Think poe where you can kill all endgame uber niggers on tier 1 map difficulty with the only difference being numbers that fly out of them when you it them.There are other complaints, but they are irrelevant next to how bad this is.
>>723623517>Looks like they have finally thrown the towel in the ring and are just gonna attempt to go back to a more D3-like philosophyThat's the funny thing about D4, EVERY SINGLE IMPROVEMENT it has since launch is taking old D3 mechanics like Kanai's cube and implimenting them.Anything D4 tries on it's own is shit. The open world? The stupid lilith statues? The endless fodder and filler dungeons?All shit. The only good things about D4 are things from D3.
>>723623563When I read that, I was instantly reminded of how they said something similar before D4 released, so I am going to take that with a HUGE grain of salt.All the other changes look fairly good though. I'm guessing they are trying to unfuck their game so that it becomes decent/good and brings back people right before they release the next expansion.
>>723623581Back off, you’re talking to a poster with 116IQ. If you respec a skill tree, it invalidates the original path you take. But you need that for proper experimentation against unknown gameplay and mechanics, but as soon as you do the tree becomes linear because you know what you’re speccing towards. Ergo, all skill trees are fundamentally linear.
>>723623649Why do you want non scaled enemies when all that does is gatekeep players out of certain areas? Honestly, what does anyone get from venturing into a cemetery, getting walled by skeleton enemies and then having to go back and grind?
>>723623776>Ergo, all skill trees are fundamentally linear.That is the most retarded shit I have heard in a long time. Congrats.
>>723623889How is that stupid it’s the illusion of choose. The best skill trees are “laned trees”, where the progression is veeery linear but putting points in immediately puts you into that lane. If you have something that forks and turns all diverging from a central path, you can’t reason about anything. There are parallels in the real world everywhere.
>>723623836Because it's the only thing that gives character progression meaning in a game about character progression?If Diablo 2 was made by modern blizzard tards, you could clear all difficulty and post game uber content with any random hackjob of a build that's not supposed to even work. But the problem is that it wouldn't have been a game that people still play after 2+ decades and that spawned an entire genre, it would come out, get lukewarm reception, and then quickly be forgotten without making any waves, just like 3 and 4.
>>723624036>If you have something that forks and turns all diverging from a central path, you can’t reason about anything.That is the second most retarded shit I have heard in a long time. I'm leaving this thread just so I don't have to witness your stupidity anymore.
>>723614042it is very fucking bad, in poe2 your skill tree has so little impact, 90% of your power comes from your items so it doesn't help most of the skill tree is filler pathing nodes and +8% additive damage to projectiles, so boring
>>723624121D2 is mostly linear anyway, the progression is split up into acts with contained quests.There’s no point in d2 where you go, “ohhh I shouldn’t be here man, I gotta go back”, because everything dies in 1 mouse click.
>>723624165>yeah imma drive down this 27 lane highway >where am i>why don’t new drivers want to drive here
>>723623530How about something more than red fireball, blue fireball, other blue fireball, tiny fireball, tiny blue fireball, split fireball, delayed fireball.Then again maybe it doesn't even matter. You just pick a fireball and then stack buffs and defensives.
>>723624246It being linear or not linear is not the point, the point is that if you've made a bad character, you will hit the wall eventually and eat shit.It's literally impossible to eat shit like that, or, when you think about it, even make a bad character, in modern Blizzard Diablo games.
>>723613076That would be Last Epoch.
>>723621681a lot of children/3rd worlders couldnt afford to get many games, so instead they played the same game over and over and over
>>723618758Because the guy who modelled him based it on himself
>>723624357You have no idea what youre talking about
>>723621681A lot of "ARPG fans" don't actually like hack 'n slash ARPGs as a genre, they just and only like Diablo 2.
>>723620159I remember doing that one at launch, lining up a bunch of mobs to shoot the big fuck off arrow through the pack feels real damn good
>>723613367>+5% and +10% nodes to make x skill functional with patches fucking up and no respec its a good system>>723614042so much of a way for yourself every nigger watch icyveins to be able for endgame
>>723619195>Upper north africans as paladins
>>723624769>well ackshully if your build is bad the numbers flying out of enemies will be 1,000,000 instead of 1,000,000,000What's the point if the game still scales everything to your power level, and you will see all the same content?Blizzard shits are obsessed with those numbers indicating damage and apparently think that those will work as the main motivator. Meanwhile in good games like d2 or poe those numbers don't even appear because you already know where you are.
>>723619967Guess I'm stuck playing Last Epoch. I really dislike gacha.
>>723624357Hitting the wall and eating shit either involves respecing or restarting a character. There’s no need to punish players that harshly for the latter.
>>723624771Isn’t that ironic since Diablo 2 popularised the whole thing and formed the basis of the subgenre? I guess it makes sense, WoW fans don’t like MMOs.
>>723625748Respec is a completely normal ingame mechanic, not punishment.By the time you may hit actual serious difficulties in D2, you should have 3 respecs available.
>>723625412What’s the point of non-linear quest progression NOT scaling enemies to your level? All you’re going to do is reach an area in the quest and think, “I should come back here later, this is hard”, which defeats the purpose of the non-linearity. Enemy levels in RPGs were originally a timesink. They were a gating process to extend a game’s length out to 40 hours.
>>723625938The hardcore gamer sentiment is that respec should be rare because it punishes lack of attention and planning, but how can you plan around what you don’t know?That’s why D4’s instant iteration of it works better. You’re constantly fine tuning and seeing what synergises best with other skills. How can you work out synergies if you’re railroaded into at-the-moment decisions?
>>723614757I bought this game with wow gold. when it was on sale and only because some wowfriends at the time wanted me to give it a try. I also wanted to stop playing wow but use the gold for something. Either spend the gold on more wow time or this piece of shit. I remember having zero fun the entire time i played the fucking game. But its when I looked at the paragon board I closed the game and refused to go back. It wasn't overwhelming or complicated. It was just shit design. All the points were just X-points for Y stats.
>>723613270Oh no so many options my retard brain can't handle it!!!
>>723628023You do realise this is for autistic people with high pattern recognotion
